ADDING TO THE CONVERSATION MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST AND FORMER SENATOR CLAIRE McCASKILL. A FORMER PROSECUTOR TEXTED ME TO THIS. THE JURY UNDERSTANDS THAT HE WAS PRONED, CUFFED AND LOST CONSCIOUS AND UNDERSTAND THANKS TO THE CHIEF HE VIE LATTED MPD POLICY. SEEMS LIKE A GOOD DAY FOR THE PROSECUTION. >> YEAH. AND THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY DOES WHAT DEFENSE ATTORNEYS DO WHICH IS TRYING TO MAKE SOMETHING OUT NOTHING. YOU KNOW, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS MAN WAS HANDCUFFED AND HAD THREE POLICE OFFICERS ON TOP OF HIM. HANDCUFFED WITH THREE POLICE OFFICERS ON TOP OF HIM. PLUS ANOTHER OFFICER STANDING BY MONITORING THE CROWD. THERE IS NOTHING IN THAT SITUATION THAT PRESENTED A THREAT, AND NINE MINUTES IS AN ETERNITY. AS I SAID THE OTHER DAY, ALL THE DEFENSE -- HONESTLY, ALL I THINK THE PROSECUTOR NEEDS TO DO IS STAND UP IN FRONT OF THE JURY AND STAND THERE QUIETLY FOR NINE MINUTES, BECAUSE THAT’S AN ETERNITY. AND THAT’S THE PROBLEM THESE DEFENSE LAWYERS HAVE, AND FRANKLY, I DON’T THINK THAT DEFENSE LAWYER -- I MEAN, JOYCE, I THINK, WILL AGREE WITH ME, HAVING BEEN IN A COURTROOM LIKE THAT, HAVING BEEN IN CROSS-EXAMINATIONS LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE PROSECUTOR, THE ENTIRE TIME THE DEFENSE LAWYER WAS CROSSING THE CHIEF OF POLICE, THE PROSECUTOR WAS PROBABLY SAYING, KEEP GOING. BECAUSE YOU’RE NOT MAKING ANY PROGRESS. ALL YOU’RE DOING IS THE JURY IS THINKING TO THEMSELVES, WELL, WAIT A MINUTE, WHAT YOU’RE SAYING ISN’T TRUE. THERE WAS NO DANGER FROM THE CROWD. THERE WAS NO DANGER FROM THIS MAN. SO, SOMETIMES, IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE A POINT, YOU MAKE THE OPPOSITE POINT. >> YEP. >> WELL, AND I -- I DON’T KNOW, JOYCE, IF THIS APPLIES IN COURTROOMS, BUT CERTAINLY IN POLITICS, WHEN YOU’RE IN A HOLE, STOP DIGGING, AND IT SEEMED LIKE EVERY TIME THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY STOOD UP TO TRY TO -- IT SEEMS THAT THEIR STRATEGY IS TO TRY TO CREATE, IN A JUROR’S MIND, A BELIEF SYSTEM THAT SUGGESTS THAT, IN THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT, YOU CAN DO ANYTHING. BUT THIS WAS ALMOST A QUARTER OF AN HOUR. THERE WAS NO HEAT OF THE MOMENT ANYTHING. IF IT WERE HEAT OF THE MOMENT, MAYBE YOU’RE BACK IN THE CAR, BUT WHAT IS SO CLEAR FROM ALL OF THIS EYE-WITNESS FOOTAGE AND FROM ALL OF THE TESTIMONY AND PEOPLE THAT HAD NOTHING ELSE IN COMMON, OTHER THAN THEY HAPPENED ON THIS SPOT AND WATCHED DEREK CHAUVIN TAKE THE LIFE OUT OF GEORGE FLOYD, WAS THAT THEY ALL CAME TO THE SAME ASSESSMENT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY. WHAT IS SORT OF THE HISTORY OF DEFENSE ATTORNEYS LIKE THIS ONE HAVING SUCCESS WITH A STRATEGY LIKE WHAT HE’S TRYING TO DEPLOY? >> ONE MEASURE OF HOW EFFECTIVE A CROSS-EXAMINATION IS, IS HOW MUCH WORK THE PROSECUTORS HAVE TO DO WITH THE WITNESS ON REDIRECT, AND SO YOU’LL NOTICE, CONFIRMING CLAIRE’S ASSESSMENT OF THE SITUATION, PROSECUTORS HAD VERY LITTLE REDIRECT TO DO, BECAUSE MOST OF WHAT MR. NELSON SPENT HIS TIME DOING WAS ASKING HYPOTHETICAL QUESTIONS ABOUT SITUATIONS THAT WAS NOT THE SITUATION THAT WAS PRESENTED WITH GEORGE FLOYD. YOU KNOW, ISN’T IT TECHNICALLY POSSIBLE THAT X COULD HAPPEN? WELL, SURE, BUT THAT’S NOT WHAT HAPPENED ON THE DAY THAT WE’RE LOOKING AT, SO IT WAS A VERY INEFFECTIVE CROSS-EXAMINATION. >> RIGHT. >> AND CARMEN, I KEEP THINKING OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY POSITION THE CHIEF IS IN, AND FOR THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY TO SAY, HYPOTHETICALLY, IF IT WERE A SHOOTOUT -- I MEAN, THE POINT IS, IT WASN’T. AND THERE WERE FOUR GUNS DRAWN ON GEORGE FLOYD AS HE WAS UNARMED IN A CAR. I MEAN, EVEN HIS HYPOTHETICALS DIDN’T SEEM TO ADVANCE WHATEVER HIS STRATEGY IS. >> EXACTLY. AND I’M SURE THE CHIEF, IN THE BACK OF HIS MIND, WAS THINKING WHAT EVERYONE HERE IS SAYING. WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? YOU KNOW, WHY AM I EVEN BEING ASKED THESE QUESTIONS? SO, KUDOS TO HIM FOR REMAINING CALM AND COMPOSED AND JUST ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS, AS RIDICULOUS AS SOME OF THEM DID SEEM AT THE TIME. YOU KNOW, A SHOOTOUT AND FREEZING A SCENE, WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH DEREK CHAUVIN PLACING HIS KNEE ON GEORGE FLOYD’S NECK FOR NINE MINUTES AND LOOKING OUT -- HE MENTIONED LOOKING OUT AT THE CROWD AND THE DANGER OF THE CROWD. THERE WERE FOUR COPS THERE, AND THE CROWD WAS MERELY TRYING TO GET THEM TO HELP MR. FLOYD, SO IT SEEMED RATHER RIDICULOUS. I’M SURE THE CHIEF WAS THINKING THE SAME THING, ALTHOUGH HE REMAINED PROFESSIONAL AS HE WOULD AND ANSWERED THE QUESTIONS ACCORDINGLY. >> AND CLAIRE, THE CROWD, WE NOW KNOW, BECAUSE OF THE FIRST WEEK OF THE CASE, THE PROSECUTION HAS PUT ON INCLUDED A 9-YEAR-OLD AND OTHER MINORS, A FORMER EMT, NOT PEOPLE WHO POLICE OFFICERS WHO RUN THE STREETS AND KNOW THEIR BEATS WOULD NATURALLY BE FEARFUL OF. AND THEY WERE ALL WIELDING CELL PHONES. I WANT TO READ YOU SOME OF "THE NEW YORK TIMES" LIVE BLOG FROM WHAT WE’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT. THIS IS FROM THE "TIMES" REPORTER, JOHN, IN MINNEAPOLIS. CASE IN POINT, NELSON ASKED THE CHIEF IF HIS PROBLEM WITH DEREK CHAUVIN’S KNEE ON GEORGE FLOYD’S NECK WAS THE AMOUNT OF TIME HE HELD IT THERE AND THE CHIEF SAID THAT IT WAS A WHOLE HOST OF FACTORS, QUOTE, IS A PERSON A THREAT TO THE OFFICER AND OTHERS? WHAT IS THE SEVERITY OF THE CRIME? ARE YOU REEVALUATING AND ASSESSING THE INDIVIDUAL’S MEDICAL CONDITION? PROBABLY NOT WHAT THE DEFENSE LAWYER WANTED TO HEAR. SO, JUST TO THIS POINT THAT THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY, BY TAKING SO MUCH TIME CROSS-EXAMINING THIS VERY CREDIBLE WITNESS MAY HAVE HURT HIS CASE. >> YEAH. >> YEAH. >> I THINK THAT’S RIGHT. I THINK IT DOES HURT HIS CASE. I THINK THAT WHEN YOU ARE IN A SITUATION, WHEN YOU ARE DEFENDING A CASE LIKE THIS, SOMETIMES LESS IS MORE. YOU KNOW, HE ONLY, I THINK, HAS A SHOT AT SOMEHOW GETTING THE JURY TO NOT FIND THE MOST SERIOUS CRIME, OR MAYBE HE’S JUST TRYING TO FIND ONE JUROR THAT’S GOING TO BE IRRATIONAL. BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, I THINK THIS POLICE CHIEF, ONCE YOU TOOK YOUR MEASURE OF THIS WITNESS, HOW COMPOSED, HOW INFORMED, HOW ARTICULATE HE WAS, ONCE YOU TOOK THE MEASURE OF THAT WITNESS, THEN A SMART DEFENSE ATTORNEY DOES LESS AND NOT MORE. AND THIS POLICE CHIEF WAS A FORMIDABLE WITNESS TO THIS OFFICER WHO PUT HIS KNEE ON THE NECK AND TOOK THE LIFE OUT OF GEORGE FLOYD THAT DAY. AND IT IS ONE THE JURY WON’T FORGET. AND FRANKLY, THE MORE TIME THIS
