ACROSS, YOU KNOW, HOURS OF TESTIMONY. >> HI AGAIN, EVERYONE. IT’S 5:00 IN THE EAST. THERE YOU HAVE IT. HIDING IN PLAIN SIGHT. THE GEORGIA VOTING RESTRICTIONS WHICH WERE SIGNED INTO LAW BY GOP GOVERNOR BRIAN KEMP WHO’S NOW WHINING ABOUT CANCEL CULTURE, WERE PUT INTO MOTION BY DONALD TRUMP’S LIES ABOUT THE ELECTION RESULTS. THAT WAS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR JEFF DUNCAN. HE’S A REPUBLICAN, BY THE WAY, WHO’S WILLING TO CALL OUT THE LAW AS BEING BASED ON RUDY GIULIANI’S DISINFORMATION. NOW, THIS SHOULD SERVE TWO PURPOSES. ONE, A WARNING TO REPUBLICANS IN STATES LIKE TEXAS, ALSO CONSIDERING LAWS PREDICATED ON THE BIG LIE, LIKE THE ONE PASSED OUT OF DMECOMMITTEE TODAY, WHICH MAKES IT A FELONY FOR AN OFFICIAL TO GIVE A VOTER AN ABSENTEE BALLOT APPLICATION IF THEY DID NOT FIRST REQUEST ONE AND TWO, A SIGN OF COMFORT TO CORPORATE CEOs BEING HARASSED THESE DAYS BY WHINY REPUBLICANS FOR OPPOSING VOTING RESTRICTION LAWS. THE MISINFORMATION IS ALSO AT THE CENTER OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF LAWSUITS FROM DOMINION AND SMARTMATIC VOTING EQUIPMENT COMPANIES. IT’S ALSO AT THE CENTER OF A WARNING OF A HEIGHTENED RISK OF DOMESTIC VIOLENT EXTREMISM FROM THIS COUNTRY’S DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY. AND OF COURSE, IT INCITED THE DEADLY INSURRECTION. BUT NONE OF THAT SEEMS TO STOP REPUBLICANS FROM PEDDLING IT. IN FACT, IN GEORGIA, KEMP SEES THE BIG LIE AS THE PATH TO POLITICAL REDEMPTION. "NEW YORK TIMES" WRITING, QUOTE, THE SWEEPING NEW VOTING BILL, MR. KEMP SIGNED TWO WEEKS AGO, HAS PROVIDED A LIFELINE TO THE EMBATTLED GOVERNOR TO REBUILD HIS STANDING AMONG THE BASE. THE BILL SEVERELY CURTAILS THE ABILITY TO VOTE IN GEORGIA, PARTICULARLY FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR. MR. KEMP HAS SEIZED ON IT AS A POLITICAL OPPORTUNITY, DEFENDING THE LAW AS ONE THAT EXPANDS VOTING ACCESS, CONDEMNING THOSE WHO CRITICIZE IT, AND CONFLATING THE CRITICISM WITH SO-CALLED CANCEL CULTURE. IT’S AN ARGUMENT HE BELIEVES MAY RESTORE HIM TO THE GOOD GRACES OF GEORGIA REPUBLICANS AFTER BEING PUBLICLY DERIDED BY TRUMP, A PREDICAMENT THAT HAS PROVED FATAL TO THE CAREER ASPIRATIONS OF OTHER AMBITIOUS CONSERVATIVES. SO, EVEN AS McCONNELL SKULKS AWAY FROM HIS MENACING COMMENTS ABOUT CORPORATIONS THAT SOUNDED A WHOLE LOT LIKE A THREAT OF RETRIBUTION, THERE’S A CRUSH OF NEW ANALYSIS FROM FORMER REPUBLICANS ABOUT THE CALCULATIONS CORPORATIONS ARE MAKING. AMANDA CARPENTER, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR TO SENATOR TED CRUZ, WRITES THIS. QUOTE, JUST MAYBE IT’S NOT THAT CEOs ARE BEING HOODWINKED OR THAT THEY ARE FOOLISHLY WORKING AGAINST THEIR OWN BEST INTERESTS AS THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" EDITORIAL BOARD AVERS, BUT RATHER, THEY SEE CLEARLY THAT THE GOP’S TRANSFORMATION INTO A PARTY OF DECEIT AND ANTI-DEMOCRACY IS BAD FOR THE COUNTRY, BAD FOR POLITICAL STABILITY, AND THEREFORE, WAIT FOR IT, BAD FOR BUSINESS. THE BIG LIE IS ONE THAT THREATENS TO UNRAVEL THE GOP’S FRAGILE COALITION IS WHERE WE START THIS HOUR WITH SOME OF OUR FAVORITE REPORTERS AND FRIENDS. ROBERT GIBBS IS HERE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY AND AN MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST. ALSO JOINING US, EDDIE GLAUDE, CHAIR OF THE DEPARTMENT OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES AT PRINCETON UNIVERSITY. ALSO AN MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR. AND BETSY WOOD ROUGH. >> >>-SWAN IS BACK. WETSY BETSY, I START WITH YOU. THIS IS REALLY A CIVIL DEBATE, I WON’T CALL IT A WAR BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY MORE FOOT SOLDIERS ON THE DISINFORMATION SIDE BUT IT’S A DEBATE HAPPENING ON THE RIGHT. AMANDA CARPENTER WORKED FOR TED CRUZ. MAX BOOT HAS A SCATHING OP-ED OUT IN THE "WASHINGTON POST" CALLING OUT REPUBLICANS AS BEING MORE COMMITTED TO DISENFRANCHISING VOTERS THAN ENACTING SENSIBLE GUN REFORM. THE ATTACKS ARE MOST SORT OF VIOLENT FROM REPUBLICANS AGAINST WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE TRYING TO DO BASED ON A LIE. THAT STATED, DO YOU SEE ANY SIGN THAT IT WILL SLOW DOWN THE ROLE IN 47 STATES TO ENACT VOTING RESTRICTIONS? >> I THINK QUITE THE CONTRARY. THE REALITY IS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY’S BASE SEEMS TO BE ENTHUSIASTICALLY SUPPORTING POLITICS AND OTHER LEADERS WHO PROPAGATE THE KIND OF NONSENSE THAT GIULIANI SPENT MONTHS SOWING AND PERHAPS THE MOST RECENT EYE-POPPING EXAMPLE OF THIS IS A SCOOP THAT MY COLLEAGUES GOT, WHICH IS THAT MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE BROUGHT IN AN ENORMOUS FUND-RAISING HAUL AFTER BEING KICKED OFF OF HER COMMITTEES AND AFTER BEING ONE OF THE MOST ENTHUSIASTIC PROPONENTS OF THE -- OF THIS ARGUMENT THAT ELECTION INTEGRITY IS A REAL PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY, WHICH IT ISN’T. MONEY TALKS TO REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES, AND WHEN THEY SEE SOMEONE LIKE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE OR JOSH HAWLEY BRING IN ENORMOUS FUND-RAISING HAULS, WHAT IT TELLS THEM IS THAT THE BASE, THE ACTIVISTS, THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS WHO DETERMINE WHO IS IN CHARGE OF THIS -- OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, ARE ON THE SIDE OF GIULIANI AND TRUMP. THEY WANT MORE OF IT AND THEY’RE GOING TO BE REWARDING THE PEOPLE WHO PROPAGATE THESE FALSEHOODS. >> ROBERT GIBBS, I AM SURE THAT THAT IS THE ACCURATE VIEW IN THE GRASSROOTS ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, BUT THERE IS NO WAY THE ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS, AND I THINK YOU PUT MITCH McCONNELL IN THAT CATEGORY, CAN SURVIVE IF THEY’RE CHOKED OFF OF A SUPPLY OF CORPORATE DONATIONS. THERE’S JUST NOT ENOUGH WHACK-A-DOO MONEY. THERE IS TRULY NOT ENOUGH DARK MONEY TO SUSTAIN ONE OF THE TWO POLITICAL PARTIES, AND I THINK THAT WITH WHAT BETSY HAS ASSERTED, IF THAT’S WHERE ALL THE HEAT IS, JOSH HAWLEY’S RAISED FIST AND MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE, THEY’RE GOING TO BECOME SO NONCOMMERCIAL, THEY WON’T BE ABLE TO RAISE A CENT FROM ANY CORPORATION IN GOOD STANDING WITH SORT OF A REASONABLE CENTER. >> WELL, AND I THINK THAT’S WHY YOU’VE SEEN THESE CEOs SPEAK OUT AND WHY, QUITE FRANKLY, THAT SPEAKING OUT HAS BEEN SO POWERFUL AND THE REACTION FROM PEOPLE LIKE MITCH McCONNELL TO TRY TO ROPE THOSE CEOs BACK IN HAS BEEN SO QUICK. THERE’S NO DOUBT THE BRIAN KEMPS OF THE WORLD SEE THEIR PATH TO REDEMPTION OR RESURRECTION, IF YOU WILL, IN A PLACE WHERE THEY’RE ANSWERING THIS IDEA OF WHAT DONALD TRUMP PUT OUT THERE AS ELECTION INSECURITY BY FIXING IT WITH ELECTION SECURITY. WE KNOW THAT’S ALL FALSE. BUT WE KNOW THAT THOSE LEGISLATURES AND THOSE ELECTED OFFICIALS DON’T WANT TO GET IN THE WAY OF DONALD TRUMP. I THINK THE REAL KEY, THOUGH, IS HOW MANY MORE BUSINESSES SPEAK UP? WHO SAYS WHAT AND WHEN? THOSE CAN BE ENORMOUSLY POWERFUL VOICES, BECAUSE AS YOU SAID, IT’S NOT JUST SPEAKING FOR THE CONSUMER, IT’S ALSO SPEAKING FOR THE CHECKBOOK. >> WELL, AND JUST TO PUSH A LITTLE FURTHER ON THIS, ROBERT GIBBS, I MEAN, MOST CORPORATE SCANDALS THAT HAVE EXISTED IN OUR LIFETIMES ARE ROOTED IN LIES THAT THEY GOT CAUGHT TELLING, WHETHER IT’S THE DANGERS OF A KEY IN THE IGNITION OR TOXIC INGREDIENTS IN SOMETHING THEY MADE, SO CORPORATIONS UNDERSTAND THE POLITICAL PERILS OF A LIE, AND NO REPUBLICAN IS DENYING -- I MEAN, GEORGIA REPUBLICANS ARE NOT DENYING THAT THE GEORGIA VOTER RESTRICTIONS ARE PREDICATED ON A LIE. SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK -- DO YOU THINK THE CONVERSATION CHANGES WHEN THEY SEE ALL THIS REPUBLICAN HEAT AROUND THE CONDUCT OF FELLOW REPUBLICANS TO ENACT THESE LAWS? >> WELL, I THINK THAT HEAT HAS GOT TO BE SUSTAINED, AND IT PROBABLY HAS TO BE HOTTER. IT HAS TO BE MORE PROLIFIC. I THINK THAT’S WHY CEOs CAN’T LEAVE THE BATTLEFIELD, AND PEOPLE CAN’T LET CEOs AND COMPANIES LEAVE IT. YOU KNOW, IF THIS IS JUST A BLIP THAT EVERYBODY RESPONDS TO, AND KEEP IN MIND, A LOT OF THAT RESPONSE IN GEORGIA WAS AFTER THE FACT, NOT BEFORE THE FACT. SO, THIS IS GOING TO -- THIS IS GOING TO TRACE ITS WAY THROUGH THE COUNTRY THROUGH SEVERAL DOZEN MORE STATES, AND IF WE LOOK BACK AND SEE THAT THE MOMENT OF REAL SPEAKING OUT WAS AFTER THE GEORGIA LAW PASSED, SO, NOT IN TIME TO AFFECT GEORGIA, BUT THAT IT ONLY HAPPENED AT THAT POINT, THEN I THINK IT’S GOING TO BE HARD TO SEE HOW THIS TRAIN LEAVES THE TRACK. ONLY IF THERE IS A SUSTAINED OUTCRY, NOT JUST FROM DEMOCRATS BUT FROM OTHERS THAT THIS IS A BAD STRATEGY AND A BAD THING AND AS YOU SAID, IF YOU CONTINUE TO BUILD STORY AFTER STORY OF THIS HOUSE ON TOP OF A LIE, IT’S THAT -- THAT FOUNDATION IS GOING TO FALL. >> WELL, AND IN THE INTEREST OF TRUTH, LET’S JUST, YOU KNOW, REPUBLICANS ARE REALLY INVESTED, FOR SOME REASON, IN NOW LYING ABOUT THE BILL THAT THEY’RE SO PROUD OF IN GEORGIA. THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT THE BILL IN GEORGIA DOES IS IT TAKES RAFFENSPERGER OUT. IT REALLY COULD HAVE ALTERED THE OUTCOME OF THE 2016 ELECTION, BUT REPUBLICANS ARE SO COMMITTED TO LYING ABOUT A BILL THAT THEY WON’T EVEN ADMIT TO BEING ASHAMED OF. I MEAN, EDDIE, IT’S SO MANY LAYERS OF DECEPTION, BASED ON A LIE, AND NOW THEY WANT TO SHADE THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT THEY JUST DID. >> YOU KNOW, I THINK IT’S -- I THINK THAT’S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, NICOLE, AND I THINK WE HAVE TO TAKE A STEP BACK AND REALLY ASK OURSELVES THE QUESTION, WHY ARE PEOPLE PREDISPOSED TO BELIEVE THE LIE? AND WE LOOK AT THAT UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO STUDY THAT JUST RECENTLY CAME OUT, THAT THE "WASHINGTON POST" REPORTED ABOUT THE JANUARY 6th INSURRECTION, AND WE SEE THAT THERE’S THIS ANIMATING VIEW AMONG THOSE WHO PARTICIPATED WHO WERE ARRESTED THAT THEY WERE BEING REPLACED, THAT THE DEMOGRAPHIC SHIFTS IN THE COUNTRY HAVE CHANGED THE VERY NATURE OF THE SOCIETY. ARE CHANGING THE VERY NATURE OF THE COUNTRY. AND SO, WE NEED TO READ JANUARY 6th AND THESE VOTER I.D. LAWS OR VOTER SUPPRESSION LAWS AS KIND OF ON A CONTINUUM, THAT THEY ARE, IN PART AND PARCEL, WORKING IN -- WORKING TOGETHER IN SOME WAYS TO TRY TO, SHALL WE SAY -- I’M TRYING TO FIND THE RIGHT LANGUAGE HERE, NICOLE, BRING THE NATION BACK TO SOME VIEW THAT IT OUGHT TO BE A WHITE NATION IN THE VEIN OF OLD EUROPE, AS I’VE SAID BEFORE. SO I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT FOR US TO SEE WHAT IS THE LIE BEHIND THE LIE? WHAT IS MOTIVATING THIS BEHAVIOR? AND WHEN WE DO THAT, THERE’S A LONG HISTORY OF VOTER RESTRICTION THAT WE HAVE -- THAT WE’VE ENGAGED IN, IN THIS COUNTRY, AND THIS IS THE LATEST INSTANCE OF, IF THAT MAKES SENSE. >> IT MAKES SENSE. I THINK YOU’RE BEING DIPLOMATIC. I THINK THE HISTORY IS RACISM. BUT THIS IS RACISM PLUS CORRUPTION. THIS IS ALSO REMOVING THEIR OWN GUY, WHO THEY COULDN’T CORRUPT, EDDIE. >> NO, ABSOLUTELY. ABSOLUTELY. AND IT’S A SENSE IN WHICH THESE FOLKS KNOW THAT THEY CANNOT WIN UNLESS THEY CHEAT. AND THAT IS TO GET FOLKS IN OFFICE WHO WILL DO THEIR BIDDING AND TO KEEP FOLKS, NOT ONLY BLACK AND BROWN FOLK, BUT POOR PEOPLE, COLLEGE FOLK, WHITE FOLK, ALL -- TO KEEP FOLK WHO ARE NOT ON THEIR SIDE FROM VOTING, SO THEY KNOW THEY CAN’T WIN WITHOUT CHEATING, BECAUSE IN SOME WAYS, NICOLE, WHAT WE’RE SEEING HERE IS THE KIND OF VACUOUS NATURE OF THE AGENDA BESIDES JUST SIMPLY A CRUDE WILL
