TREX TALK: How and Why to use DMR Radios

hey look i need to borrow a couple radios uh youtube is having major problems well by the way i can't see all right we are good all right are we live are we broadcasting to human beings excellent so ladies and gentlemen thank you for joining us for another live we're a little bit late because uh youtube has been having a little bit of trouble with our live stream um which is incredibly appropriate because we're talking about radios we're talking about the need for decentralized communication because sometimes the large communications platforms have hiccups and have issues kind of like apparently youtube tonight so one of the things that we're going to cover is analog radios digital radios dmr radios and david botkin is going to help us program some dmr radios specifically high terras and we're going to talk a little bit about some of the advantages of hytera radio over i guess the more open dmr standard radios like uh uh let's see the tyt or the or the any tone radios that that i have but yes uh real quick welcome to t-rex talk you can listen to this uh as a podcast or you can watch this on youtube and this one is actually going to have some visual stuff so i think it is actually yeah if we don't get kicked off of youtube anytime soon it's probably worth trying to watch this one on youtube if you really want to see how the dmr programming process works because we're actually down live yeah we should be able to switch over to this laptop and actually look at it so yeah we've done some videos in the past on radios and yeah it's it's a it's a really useful thing to know how to do um use radios i think a lot of people haven't really put the pieces together for recognizing that you know they have these guns and as they start thinking about them as self-defense tools you know one of the most basic things is if you're going to do something you could probably get more benefit doing that thing as a team and so you know the rule of the gunfight is bring a gun and bring all your friends with a gun right so one of the other rules of the gun fight is shoot move communicate and these tools are for helping you communicate with those other people with guns so that's why we're interested in it they also have other uses you know at the range they're good for coordinating stuff and good for safety doing stuff in the shop like labeling all the breakers in the building that's something that needs a rate you know a set of radios to communicate with people there's just a lot of good useful reasons to have radios um cell phones are basically a form of radio but like with isaac was just talking about you know we uh part of what makes them awesome is the the whole grid of complications of repeaters basically you know the cell towers but if those go down suddenly your fantastic amazing radio is useless it has absolutely no way to work unless you have some infrastructure and that's where traditional radios analog or digital uh really start to shine so um where do you want to go you want to just dive straight into programming or oh yeah somebody in the chat pointed out that a communication disruption can mean only one thing invasion that's an excellent point uh but it could actually mean other stuff for example traditional communications difficulties well i was about to say we're we're in the middle of a small storm right now but we're in rural tennessee we lose power several times a year due to storms if it lasts longer than a few hours we generally use cell phones so we're not talking necessarily about doomsday scenarios because there's plenty of natural disasters that cause communications to go down but speaking of doomsday scenarios somebody is asking why are we silent on the atf and pistols we're actually not go back a couple of videos and watch the one on resisting tyranny l talk you'll see me talking about uh pistols and the atf right um i'm actually surprised that video is still up but also also there's new news sort of on the atf thing um but what we've been observing about the atf for the last couple of years is they are master wafflers um yeah we should actually get a waffle iron for the shop and write and put the letters atf on it i mean they they've asked this right this waffle iron kills dogs yeah it's it's like they they say they send a cease and desist to cue say stop doing this thing and then they send a temporary stay on that cease and desist like you can keep making them for another 60 days while we figure out what on earth we're doing so they're in the middle of this incredible vacillation and waffling and when they actually publish stuff that's when things will start to get more lively but they've they've gone back and forth and yeah everything that we said a couple weeks ago which was the illegitimacy of the atf and of the nfa and reasons why they should go away that is the case regardless of which way they decide to waffle next week on pistol braces but what they're actually saying about pistol braces is not clear so we're not diving into that super deeply but it's always fine to have a cursory statement saying the atf has no business existing right the nfa has no business existing short barrel rifles have no business being on the nfa even if it did exist etc etc right now we think the atf sounds like a fantastic store to go to do you remember it's actually kind of annoying to me i used to try to call them the batfe all the time on purpose because they were trying so hard to be a three-letter agency a serious big boy agency and they didn't really want to be the batf then they became the batfe and i have tried to call them by all five letters all the time but it's actually very difficult well they're they're so many they're the red-headed stepchild of the federal government you know they're the agency that never has a director you know because no one can get confirmed and so they just sit there with only an acting director you know they don't really have a place at the table it's it's kind of it's such a weird thing like they regulate stuff that's illegal but it's not entirely illegal if you just pay so it's a very strange part of the department of justice that has no business existing has no business regulating the things that it technically regulates et cetera et cetera so let's let's go back to to communication so there's three types of communication that i think are really important there's um the first is just listening just being able to listen to radio traffic that exists is extremely important so the ability to listen to weather radio the ability to use a police scanner to listen to stuff the ability to just have a shortwave radio receiver like this one that you can use to just tune in and listen to stuff listening to radio is way easier than transmitting it's always legal and you will learn stuff from it so passively gathering intelligence using radio receivers is always a good idea then the second the second type of radio uh communication is when you are um broadcasting uh and and you're not supposed to use that word if you're on an amateur frequency you're supposed to transmit not broadcast but broadcasting a message out i think is actually grammatically correct say broadcasting a message out trying to see who else is out there in the form of an emergency does anybody need help can anybody help me finding strangers is something that you want to be able to do in certain emergency situations and when you want to find strangers you want to be able to use your amateur radio license and your amateur radio equipment to do that the third type of communication is when you already have a communications plan with somebody that you know and you want to talk to them specifically using a pre-coordinated set up and pre-coordinated communication network and for that i'm beginning to lean a little bit away from amateur radio and a little bit into business band license and business radios and commercial radios so we can talk a little bit more about why we've gone that way but people are probably curious about that because we are not using ham radios for this particular programming demonstration we are using commercial hytera radios even though they are capable of broadcasting on some of these are capable of broadcasting on the amateur we have jeff and vhf bands yeah yeah so it's it's uh i think what we'll we'll do uh charles if you can flip over to my computer monitor i'm going to start off by just sort of talking real briefly about the bow fangs and what's involved in programming those super easy to program i should have brought my programming cable so i could actually load one up um but i went to the internet found a super easy tutorial and basically what you do is you get your baofang it has a port on the side you can see those little pins right there that plugs into the radio this plugs into your computer as you would expect and then you use a program called chirp balfang also has their own proprietary software but i would use chirp you download from the radio by using the com port that that cable simulates you tell chirp what radio you're connecting to and then it pulls down the frequencies that are programmed into that radio and at that point it's all pretty simple just you know punching in the frequency you want so these are all uhf freaks right here and a radio like the uv-5r is a dual bander it can do uhf and vhf um and it covers a bunch of the the ham spectrum and outside the ham spectrum and then other radios like the bf triple eight um which is about a ten dollar radio it's only uhf and those are great right here yeah so um basically all these different settings yeah so this is a this is a bf triple eight about two bucks yeah they're like ten bucks i just i just bought some recently and um we've we've been using these around you know for farm work and all kinds of stuff i would say it's still worth having a bunch of those because even though i'm going to use one of these hytera radios to communicate with t-rex people right having a bunch of these in my house so that i can hand them out to my neighbors if there is an emergency or a disaster is something that i want to be able to do i don't necessarily trust them enough to hand them an expensive radio with all of our encryption tied into it right but handing them a 10 radio that can reach me yeah simply and easily is very handy so these are there's all kinds of rules with the fcc over what radios can pro can broadcast or transmit on what areas of the spectrum and they have these things for uh type approval of radios like these radios are type approved under this rule and this one's this rule so these radios like this motorola right here if i pop it open it will probably i'm just going to guess i don't even know it'll probably say that it's type 90 approved i'm not actually seeing that but it's a commercial radio so that's basically what it is and different rules like if you're on frs or gmrs or ham or mers or commercial they have different rules for what kind of radio need technically this doesn't quite match the rules for something like using frs or gmrs frequencies they just changed the rules on those though i'm still trying to figure out how it changed like they upped frs is family radio service like that's when you go to walmart and you buy bubble pack radios um they just up the power on those from like half a watt to two watts which is kind of cool and if they change some other rules technically i don't think it would be completely proper to program in frs frequencies on one of these and throw it on there but practically it's really close you can do gmrs frequencies on this and again not quite right because this isn't technically part 90 certified but it's super close not telling you to break any rules just making some technical observations they totally go on those frequencies and they're broadly consistent with the the thing now if you can you grab that little mini radio box yeah i think this would actually work because it has a fixed antenna which is one of the rules i would recommend i think this is an frs legal radio i'm not again not 100 sure because i need to go scrub through those rules some more but it's one of those things where if you're using the the frequencies as they were intended as a family thing and you're using low power and you're not causing much of disruption and you're using a quality enough radio that it's not bleeding over into other people's space and stuff you're probably fine but also if you're on research i'm not a lawyer i'm not your lawyer i would say a good youtube channel to go check out is the ham radio crash course um hashnazi is the guy who runs that channel and produces all the content he dives deeply into some of this radio minutia right and he has a bunch of videos where he walks through exactly how to set up different radios and what they're for so highly recommend that you go to experts not us we're not actually experts um but we can point you in the direction of some experts and we've been playing around with some of these radios for a number of years um we've been we got what our ham radio licenses like 10 years it's almost 11 years ago so we've been playing with radios for a long time like update and a lot of these radios these cheap ones you might think well they're cheap they're chinese garbage not exactly like i i have one of these i'm not sure if it's this one and my children took them to the woods and lost one and either a year or two later i'm not sure which because i don't remember if it was one one complete it was like they lost it in the fall and we found it in the next fall or maybe it was two falls later i'm not sure but it still worked we it had we had to replace the battery but that radio actually still worked even after being out in the elements for a year or two um you know these little bf triple h they will die eventually if you put them on a charger and you leave them on continuously for about a year for some reason they burn out which is kind of what i do with those which is kind of what we do with those um so these are great they're super cheap if you don't do anything else you should get a handful of them is what i would recommend there's a ton of people asking about range yes and this brings me back to kind of the three different kinds of communication and uv5r and one of the things that is important to remember is that handheld radios do not let you talk very far and the difference between a 10 radio and a 300 radio the antenna is what matters most there isn't going to be a massive massive difference between these except for the fact that the digital codec does get you a little bit of extra efficiency and a little bit of extra error correction and that buys you a little bit of extra room but handheld radios are not a thing that you use to talk to people who are 50 miles away or 20 miles away or 10 miles away not without a repeater now you can get repeaters but there's there's uh let me break it down into three different kinds of communication again you have short range which is like a mile or two we live is it are we a mile apart uh we're less than a mile we're less than a mile apart and we're fairly close to the shop which means that we can talk to each other really easily using handheld radios we can almost talk to the shop i can you can you can talk to the shop you can't talk to people that are all the way in the back of the shop because it's a big huge it's a big cage metal building and so that doesn't work very well but um a couple within a bubble of a mile or two handheld radios work for coordinating uh your team and for talking to your neighbors doing stuff inside a mile or two but it's then but it's not a it's not a simple bubble like i think that's kind of how people think of it and they think more power more range it's not so like i i remember doing tests early on and experimenting with vhf versus uhf and you know i would i would dr i could go about a mile from our house in very hilly terrain maybe a little less than that and this radio would work and this one wouldn't and then you know uhf would work and vhf wouldn't then go a little further and oh now it's reversed you have these spots where there's signal effectively and no signal just like with cell phones um people kind of intuitively know this with cell phones if they live in a rural area like oh i'm going down into a valley i'm going to lose you yeah it's the exact same thing with these except the towers are now in the valleys not just in the hills yeah which is how cell towers normally get placed and if you want longer range you need repeaters and if you're an amateur radio guy amateur radio clubs are the ones that set up repeaters but you could set up your own club or your own group and you could set up your own repeater which have one over here i've got one around here somewhere oh where did i leave it so now this is specifically a uh digital hytera repeater so um you need this thing which is what 1500 bucks used yeah something like that you need a duplexer yeah you need a power supply you need an antenna you probably want to put it on a tower you probably want to put the tower on the hill right so even yeah that is something that i actually have not gotten to play with yet it's still on my to-do list but basically so you have all these these uh fairly inexpensive radios that offer a huge amount of bang for the buck but they have some deficiencies you know the big one is with ham and with frs and with uh gmrs and mers and all that there is no encryption allowed with ham radio you can do digital modes um like dmr or one of the other amateur digital modes and that kind of sort of works like encryption because it's it's not easy for someone to just crack and listen to it's it's not just you know they can buy a uv 5r off of like anybody can go buy these on amazon they're like 25 bucks and then they can listen to anything you are saying anything yeah with those so that's a downside um you know there's not a lot of things you can do with it outside of just very simple programming in a frequency and listening or transmitting on that frequency and i want to talk about encryption because yeah it's cool to have it's probably not as cool as you think it is but even with encryption and digital modes in a commercial radio you still have the same limitation these hand these handy talkies here these hd's these handheld transceivers they just don't go very far without a repeater right and if you are a amateur radio guy you're dependent on the repeaters that your amateur clubs are running nearby but if you have enough people you can get your own repeater like we do have it's not set up because you can share the cost you can share the cost among the people and you can potentially make that work yep and if we had a big enough hill and we got a nice antenna and how many watts is that i think that that repeater is 50. so this these are going to be around 5 watts so that repeater with a much better antenna and 10 times the power is going to reach a lot farther yeah it's going to connect a lot more radios and it's going to give us what's your estimated range uh with the math that you've been doing and again it varies i'm going to guess where we are in tennessee it's super super hilly and that's the worst radio terrain i'm going to guess 5 to 10 miles you know you'll have people on a hilltop 10 miles in a valley maybe five that's my guess so that even with the repeater you're not buying yourself uh hundreds of miles you're not even buying yourself very many tens of miles yeah now if you live in uh you know the right part of colorado and you're able to put your repeater on top of the rockies and see it from 50 miles away that's a little different right this is something that is kind of an issue if you want to talk farther than that you have to get into hf radio and you need to first of all you have to learn a thing that is very complicated and you have to buy radios that are a little bit more expensive this is about the cheapest radio that i would get this is the zygou g90 and it's about a 500 radio which you then need to add a bunch of connectors and things to so that you can do digital modes over it right and hf radio is a totally different beast you put a gigantic antenna on that and you can talk uh literally halfway around the world on i believe this is 10 watts 10 watts of power and more morse code morse code or digital modes once you add computers to it so if you're if your plan is to uh be able to talk to people in other states which i think is an important plan um you're not going to do it with these you're not going to do it with these and a repeater now one of the things that people keep bringing up is that there are um there are hot spots for dmr one of the cool things about dmr as a standard is that it piggybacks over uh internet networks really easily so we could take our um we could take our repeater over here and plug it into the internet and connect it to another repeater 600 miles away in another state and then our radios could talk they would just talk from the radio to the repeater and then from the repeater over the internet to another place over over here say but that requires that the internet work and one of the whole reasons that i'm interested in digital radio communications is for times when the internet doesn't work like a few moments ago when we tried to start this live stream and it uh it wasn't working so that is something that is really important all the guys talking about using dmr hotspots that you tie into your own wi-fi that is great for amateur radio stuff it's great for experiments it's great for keeping in touch with people it's great for hobby type stuff but only if your internet works and for for emergency communications for mcom you need to assume a scenario where the internet isn't working right um and so so yeah so that's a cool feature of dmr but it's not necessarily a reason to go with dmr for m.com so let's talk let's go back more to the programming side and first we'll hit one last thing and that is the licensing thing so there's all these different ways to do radio with frs gmrs ham mers whatever but they all have a lot of limitations on them no encryption you know not all of them allow digital modes and digital modes are where you really want to go because like dmr so when you have a radio like this let's say you had one licensed frequency you know you could have these two radios having a conversation on that frequency and you would have exactly the ability to have one conversation dmr part of what it does is it takes that 12 and a half kilohertz bandwidth that is given and it splits it into two separate slots and you can actually have a conversation on slot one and a completely separate independent conversation on slot two like literally two people could be talking on these radios and having a conversation and two other people could be talking on these radios having a conversation and it's all the exact same frequency and theoretically yeah they can do text messaging they can do text messages they can transmit uh gps coordinates and they can still all kind of go further yes the text communication should go a lot further than voice so once we get these things set up yeah with our repeaters and we have 10 miles of voice communication we may have 20 or 30 of text communication yeah which we live in a very large county but that still is a lot of direction that's a lot of distance that we could cover yeah um and the other thing that i really want to do i i was going to ask you about this earlier but i'll just do it now i want to put a mobile radio inside of my car yes which is cool because the mobile radios go up to like 25 watts and you can put a much larger antenna on your car and it has the ground plane of the top of the vehicle right so that's going to be a lot more powerful can i set up a mobile radio in my car to be a crossband repeater and switch my radio just over to a different channel that talks specifically to that crossband repeater that is my mobile radio and then my mobile radio reaches all the way back i don't know either so there's a thing called crossband repeaters where you have a radio and maybe someone normally a radio like this can transmit on one frequency or listen on another frequency but it can only do one at a time it can't go full duplex but there are some radios that are uhf and vhf and it actually has two separate radios so it can be receiving on vhf and while it's receiving on vhf it actually transmits on uhf and there's utility for this where you're like you have a little handheld radio to talk back to your car and then your car uses its powerful radio to talk back to um the station and and you you find things like this being used they may not be a crossband repeater but this kind of little miniature repeating activity tate makes stuff tate is a new zealand-based radio company they make a thing for that it goes on like fire engines and stuff so firefighters have access to the fire engine then it radios back to dispatch and there's some cool stuff like that so i don't know about yeah tmr and crossband repeaters but that's kind of cool well there's another thing that's not even a crossband repeater but because there are technically two slots on this radio on a single um the basically the way that it works is when you are transmitting you're only transmitting half of the time it it records audio for a second and then it compresses that audio down into a packet that takes half a second to send yeah and so for every minute that you're broadcasting you're only sending 30 seconds worth of data and it's listening for the other 30 seconds or the repeater is using that extra 30 seconds to listen for other radio broadcasts but one of the things that you can do not with this radio but with the 900 series radio this handheld can be a little repeater because it can hear you talking over there listen to that that 50 talk time and then use the empty 50 percent to broadcast it on on exactly the same frequency which is a very very cool ad hoc thing so yeah so so those um single frequency repeaters are a thing can these do that are you saying you researched that not the 700s or the 500 but the 900s oh okay cool but only one it can't become an daisy chain for some reason don't fully understand it so once you go to start looking at dmr you start having all these additional features that you can use you can do things like over-the-air programming and i think there's some provision for that with analog radios but and i don't know how to do that with a digital radio but you start getting a lot of features and you get to do things like there's a thread interrupt well you get to do things like part of the reason why it's cool to have this uh time based having two time slots for each dominant dominoes for each radio is cool because you can do stuff like on your repeater um we could set up for example this is the way that would work for t-rex it makes a lot of sense is we have stuff that happens inside of the shop and we have stuff that happens outside at the range and so setting up a talk group for people who are working in the shop a separate talk group for people that are out at the range makes a lot of sense because now we have the ability to let two groups of people have two completely separate conversations without them interfering with each other um on a single repeater on a single um right a single frequency pair so there's a bunch of stuff that it gets you that is cool also theoretically it gets you more battery life because your radio is only transmitting half of the time yep and you can override certain radios and break in on conversations if necessary yeah there's there's all kinds of cool stuff they can do so and in our testing digital has gone farther than analog yes same size antenna same wattage greater distance so here's two radios that i bought recently i don't know if you can see the screens uh but basically i've got some test frequencies programmed in that we licensed and um i have if you can see it no we probably don't want to mess with the don't want to mess with focus no basically i have one frequency programmed in and a number of talk groups and i'll explain that when i go to program here i have another radio that i bought used and it still has the old programming from the last user on it so we'll look at that and play with those frequencies a little bit i don't really want to show our frequencies um oh yeah true but um in fact i was going to point out it is in some ways it is uh yeah it's a little bit of bad opsec to tell you guys what radios and repeater we're running but the value the educational value i think offsets the uh right the security uh weakness that is happening at this anyway why don't we do this why don't we just dive straight into reading from this radio and starting to poke around with the settings and explaining how they program because while analog radios are super simple to program like you just tell it what frequency you want to transmit on and a couple other settings and you're done and any radio with those same settings work with dmr you have a whole lot more settings and so i was actually fairly intimidated when i was looking at it like oh this is going to be very hard to learn and i don't understand what's going on and at this point i have done a number of tests with these radios and i'm at the point where i can say i want to do this and i program it like yep that worked so that's why i feel comfortable actually explaining what i'm doing and why um even though i'm still i feel so nice yeah and i feel so novice still i'm like i don't know what i'm doing so we're going to go ahead and plug this in now some of this stuff is not as user friendly as i would like so the first challenge i had with hyteras was you know i plugged the usb cable in and then i tried to load the drivers and none of that worked you have to install the drivers before you ever plug in the cable or else it simply will not work and while you're doing that let me talk about dmr for a second because dmr is based on a moto turbo which is a motorola thing yep or maybe it's i don't know which came first yeah it's it's basically an open standard that is used by a number of different radio companies so there are a bunch of um there's a bunch of amateur radios that are designed for ham radio guys that use dmr as the codec the digital codec to talk and then there's a bunch of commercial radios which also use dmr but they have certain features that are enablable like encryption and uh there there are people that have added on to the dmr standard so for example one of the things that hytera radios have is they have something called pseudo trunking which is something that is built into a hytera radio and it's built into the hytera repeater but uh super cool it's super cool but what it means is that an amateur dmr radio won't be able to use all of those features and a motorola won't either and a motorola won't either and we're not sure exactly how gracefully all these things will fail but that's part of our experiments yeah and one of the things they have forward one of the things i haven't tested yet is making third-party you know other dmr radios talk with hyteras many brands have some proprietary features yeah that work really well and pseudo trunking is one of those cool ones that's really helpful okay so i got my radio plugged in i did a read operation it read successfully and at this point we're looking at this radio come on here we go okay so we can double click on it it tells me stuff about the radio it tells me what its frequency range is they sell these in two different frequency ranges they call them u1 like with uhf u1 and u2 and basically they have overlapping coverage like one is better suited for it goes like from 400 to 470 and the other one's 450 to 520 and one of them is better for ham radio usage and one of them is more commercial but they both overlap in the middle there and can do the traditional uh business licenses that are available so you know this is this is a u2 radio and it has it tells me the firmware version some of these radios i bought i couldn't program them until i upgraded the firmware that's kind of its own whole thing it wasn't hard but you know i had to get the thing and make it all work and um and then we have radio settings you know there's uh some common settings for a name for the radio and stuff and none of this is very important you can lock the radio you can give a power on message just a whole bunch of different settings but where it really gets interesting it reminds me of messing around inside of nokia's and motorola phones back in the day you'll notice that it has some features here scrambler basic encrypt full encrypt hytera i think the way it works is you actually pay money to them and they enable the feature remotely i'm not sure how that works but those are features you can pay extra for and i just don't really know how it works so if we open up more settings we find zone channel digital common dmr services this is where for me it was pretty complicated at first but it's actually fairly simple first we'll look at digital common basic every radio has a radio id associated with it and ideally those radio ids are all unique and it actually will let you do stuff like you could have 10 radios talking and you'd have radio you know number one talk to radio number seven and they could have a private conversation that only the two of them could hear you know this software lets you do cool stuff like i start with radio number one and i can say you know what next time i write a radio i want to automatically call that radio number two so it has some cool features like that it also has encryption features so we get that to open here talk about encryption now or just keep going with the settings well this is one of the cool things about dmr is it potentially depending on your radio lets you have encryption and these give you 10 character 32 characters 64 character encryption and one of the other cool features if you look around you can add a bunch of keys you can add a whole bunch of keys and you can actually with some radios it'll actually randomly rotate through the keys so you'll you'll key up it'll transmit with key number seven the receiving radio hears that looks through its library of keys and goes oh key seven works and now you can talk but the next time you transmit new keys new keys new keys and so that's a little bit extra security but we're not going to worry about encryption that's only going up to 64. do we have to buy the module to go up to 256. yeah aes256 is a paid upgrade which is supported by these radios i believe so but i don't know now one of the problems with encryption so a lot of people are very annoyed by the fact that you cannot do encryption using your amateur license on amateur bands and amateur radios i'm annoyed by that too however be aware of what it is that you think encryption is going to get you encryption means that people cannot listen to what you are saying but if you are if you are concerned about an enemy finding out stuff about you using your radio the most useful information that the enemy can find out is how many of you there are and where you are and they can find that anytime that your radio transmits whether the data is encrypted or not they can see the signal and direction finding radio equipment is cheap and pretty easy to use so if i was trying to find where a bunch of guys with encrypted radios were finding out where they are is just as easy whether they have encrypted radios or not so encryption does not buy you in visibility it buys you a little bit of privacy by by having encrypted radios like this it means that your next-door neighbors who have bow things cannot hear what you are saying but it does mean that any serious enemies can get lots of information about you uh even if they can't hear what you're saying and uh figuring out what you're saying is actually not gonna be that difficult for significant enemies because well the encryption down here is just not the best we don't know that it's particularly robust but now that it's completely free of any issues it's better than nothing okay so the first there's kind of three main areas you need to program when you're programming a dmr radio there's contacts there's channels and there's zones with a traditional analog radio you basically only are programming your your frequencies and you just plug in the frequency and that's it you set a couple settings and you're done with this the all three of those play together to actually create the experience that you as the user have when you pick up the radio and you select a channel and you actually hit transmit so you have to get all three of those correctly set up and in sync sort of for lack of a better term so the first thing we have is we have our contacts and this could be very simple or or incredibly complicated the previous user for the this commercial radio that i'm programming had only one contact set up it was just home it was a group call and it had this number and that was it so then when we jump over to the next place which is we go to channels and we go to digital channels they have all these different channels programmed in we'll double click on one here this is a simplex channel so these are repeaters this one is not a repeat did not use a repeater we can see their frequency that they had plugged in 464 500 and that same on the receive side and the transmit side so let's start from the top you have the channel name let's let's let's make this one to our channels we'll pretend we're taking over this radio we'll call this um we'll call this range safety the next setting is color code i don't fully understand how this works but basically you choose they have to match they all have to match for them to talk and you there's a whole bunch of them i don't know so it's just it's part of how it gets encoded and then you have slot operation so you have the choice of two different slots not all dmr brands can actually talk simplex that means directly radio to radio and make use of both of those slots but typically when they do make use of the two slots you tell it i want to use slide one or i want to use slot 2 and it's it's locked into that hytera's pseudo trunking actually lets it gracefully choose which slot to use and so you might have 10 talk groups on a channel on a frequency and you go to talk on chant you know talk group 141 and oh someone's already talking in slot one we'll use slot two and then a minute later you try to translate oh someone's on slot two we'll use slot one and it'll automatically do all that very gracefully but if you select pseudo-trunking as i understand it other brand radios won't work but you know what we only have high terrors we're playing with so we'll say pseudo trunking we can skip through all this we come down to our frequencies we'll just keep using their existing frequency for now we're not actually going to transmit on it we have our frequencies here and then we have our contacts and this is our range safety channel so we're going to say range safety and there's actually some way to do receive group lists this is interesting you could actually i haven't done this yet but as i understand it you could actually have a radio that's set up to listen to a whole bunch of different channels or contacts and be able to hear what maintenance is doing and what shipping is doing or whatever but we'll just leave that as none and one of the cool things about their software is it has this little help thing that just sits down here at the bottom and so if you don't know what you're doing you can just jump over there we can also flip on encryption if we'd encryp enabled encryption over here but we haven't and we'll have there's a bunch of settings on what power level you can also set the radio up so you can the user can select power level and we also have transmit admit which means um basically if there's another conversation going on and you hit transmit are you allowed to interrupt yes or no and this radio was set to always allow you know you could say i only want to do it if if it's free or if the color code is free and i haven't really played with these settings but i do know that the interrupt you know always allow works because that's that's what i've set up so far now you might not want that you might want certain people to be able to interrupt and other people not um you know maybe you have a safety channel and if you go to safety you want safety to be able to interrupt everyone else but they're the only ones that get to interrupt and then there's some more settings which some of these down here are analog settings like ct css and dc8 cdc ss and the channel spacing is locked to 12.5 kilohertz you don't really get to select that most ham radio guys use 25 kilohertz um but basically everyone else is on 12 and a half at this point so we've got this radio channel set up you know range safety and the next place if we actually want to use this we need to put this channel that we've created into a zone so i'm going to flip over here to zones now so we have our contact that we've we've created it's this one is uh called range safety but it's actually the number for it is 141. we've got some frequencies here we've got a name for it and now we jump over to digital home as the zone and and now we have different zones that we can select and we have available channels and we have the channels are actually being allocated to the radio and we have range safety here as channel 4 on the radio so we're going to move that on up because we want range safety to be priority number one right charles 53rd no yeah that's what that's right we'll move down here no um so at that point i can say let's write this back to the radio and it takes a minute so while it's doing that do we have anything we need to talk about any interesting questions yeah so there's a bunch of people there are a wide variety of folks a wide variety of skill levels and understanding levels in the comments so some people are asking basic questions some people that are asking advanced questions people telling me i'm doing things wrong um i don't know that anyone is super advanced otherwise i would be asking them questions but one of the things that is very fascinating is this talk about um encryption uh one of the things that is important some guys are talking about is if you can limit your transmissions um that is going to be the most important thing that you can do uh one of the things that that people are also talking about is frequency hopping if you have a frequency hopping radio you're impossible to find that was the case back in uh some of the earlier world wars but with modern software-defined radios that see the entire radio spectrum at the same time and record it all they can see uh they can see the radio transmission hopping through the frequency they can just watch it happen and grab it all and piece it back together pretty easily like i can do that personally on this laptop with a 20 sdr so yeah it's kind of like it's kind of like shredders worked really really well until computers and scanners came along and then people wrote code that just jigsawed stuff back together so i now have you can't really see it but this radio is now set to channel number one on it is range safety and if we had another radio programmed up with all the exact same settings it would talk between this one and to be far away to be in focus that's that's basically it and if i had a completely different model high terra you know if i had the exact same model high terra i could use this code plug that i've generated that's what this is actually called this file with all these settings in it is called a code plug at least that's what it's called in the ham world i don't know if it's called that in the commercial world but i assume it is i could just take this code plug and just go bam bam bam and just clone it onto as many radios as i want now i have another radio here it's kind of the same it's the same but it's in a it's a 700 series radio but it is different and as i understand it it would need a whole new code plug generated in order for those these two to actually uh talk with each other but one of the things that i have played with it's pretty cool is if you get this all set up you have a bunch of contacts a bunch of frequencies a bunch of zones you can actually export your contacts and export your channels and then re-import those it exports it as a spreadsheet and unless you import it and it does it takes a lot of the data entry and eliminates it um and there's still some setup like you still have to go through your channels and you have to you you know you still have to when i did it i still had to assign the contacts to the unique channels so if you had a hundred different channels or something it would be kind of a pain but actually once i started figuring out the the triumvirate of these three settings groups and how they played together suddenly it became a lot simpler you know you set up the contacts first and it doesn't have to be super complicated you know in the contact area you can set up just a group call like these guys they just had one for the whole whoever had this radio before they just had one for everything you know but you could have um you know a chat group basically it's a chat group for just one type of topic and a radio with a screen will tell you the name of that otherwise you know if it doesn't have a screen like you have to remember the number you have to remember i'm on channel one and that's all you have you know you set up your talk groups your contacts and then you set up your frequencies your channels and again it's it's actually pretty simple once you get into it it's much like traditional analog radio but then you do have to get the zones if you only set up the channels it would not work the channels have to be assigned to the zone and and you can add and remove which is pretty cool you know let's let's just get rid of all these channels now i only have one to worry about on this radio you can do that so yeah it actually ended up being not as complicated as i originally anticipated and it gives us a lot of flexibility that analog systems didn't but there is a complexity difference and there is a price difference now uh do you want to say how many people were we're planning on getting radios for how many radios do you think we're going to have in this group and on this repeater um i i've got about 20 radios at the moment um we could support way more yeah some of those are high terrors that actually don't support encryption so i may not be using those we may sell those and replace them with different ones but we have a lot of people that could potentially use radios and these radios are more expensive yeah so so the repeater is something where that adds a significant amount of value owning our own repeater and knowing that we can support it we can put it in a place that that we control we can make sure that it has a generator with fuel or cell uh solar cells and batteries like we can be responsible and confident that that thing works without power and then we can be confident that our radios are set up to work on it and we can understand uh david can understand that system for us which is very important but these radios do cost more than belfangs yes and the business license that we paid for costs more than an amateur license but it doesn't cost more than 30 people going to get their amateur licenses so well and also with amateur like we're going to use these for business but your amateur license is you're not supposed to use it for business at all it's amateur by definition um so for so let's say that uh let's say that some of the people watching have a bunch of friends that they want to be able to keep in touch with not just in disasters but they want to have com so that when they do stuff on the range they can be coordinated there's a significant tactical component to radios that have a push-to-talk button and lets you communicate with a large group of people over a cell phone where you have to make a connection to the person or set up a discord server and have enough bandwidth that you can actually all communicate and all that that implies right there's a lot of value in having radios there's a lot of value in groups of people having radios especially when you're talking about hts when you're talking about handheld radios that don't talk very far you are much better off using these radios for pre-organized communications with people that you already know and having a communication plan already set up there are so many guys on the internet that buy a bow fan and stick it in their plate carrier and they're good to go but they actually have no communication plan they don't know who they're trying to talk to they don't know what frequencies they should be using they haven't practiced with um with the equipment and they don't understand what's involved these radios are going to be far more effective if you know what you're doing yeah but they're even going to be more effective if you have a plan and if you have people to talk to that you already are friends with yeah that said let's say you did have these and you were all kidded up and you were going to go do disaster relief let's say there was a huge hurricane i would carry this for talking to people that like and these are immersed you can dunk these in water these are very durable these are great i would carry this for talking to my team but i would also want to have at least one like that ub5r that is field programmable i don't need a programming cable on a laptop this one's out of battery but like i can turn it down and i can just punch in the frequency i want and it's really quick and dirty but you know for you know if there's someone out there with a amazon you know walmart bubble pack radio i could punch in frs channel one and i could talk to that person and technically you could program these into this i could that would require that you switch away from the channel that your buddies are on yeah and so you know if you're gonna not do any prior work and just grab something to throw in your plate carrier or whatever your get home bag the uv5r or an equivalent you know field programmable ham radio is a great choice but in the moment you probably won't know how to program it at all or get anything done with it you really have to work on this ahead of time it's not something you can kind of throw in your preps and hope that maybe one day you'll know how to use it without the internet to help you yeah that's that's not a good plan let's talk a little bit about the cost difference because bowel fangs are dirt cheap yep we're not telling you not to buy bow fangs not to have them uh charged not to have the manual printed out not to have some experience messing with it not to not to have a few of them so you can hand them out and you can use them in emergencies it's not as backup because they're they're not as sturdy it's like this it's like this is an ar-15 and this is a 22. yeah everyone's got to have some 22s it's not a battle rifle but it's a utility gun and it's a fantastic utility gun that does a lot of stuff it's just not this now that said this this radio here i think i used this one as my firefighting radio for a while i didn't it looks like it i never really got it programmed up to transmit to our repeater but we didn't have enough power to transmit to the repeater anyway it didn't really matter this was a listening device for getting details on the call as we were going and you know they you know we used a number of them they held up really well all things considered considering you know the the wetness and the getting bonked around and stuff that they endured um so i would you know i've seen these in syria and places like that in pictures they're remarkably using them battlefield radios so um don't think oh i can't i can't use this i have to use this no there's a lot of utility in this but cost difference you can pick these up on amazon for like 25 bucks new the pd 782 which is what this is oh no that's a 7 this is a 702 this is a 782. these run about 800 bucks new um and then the repeater is more now you can get them used um in the two to four hundred dollar range which is still a lot of money um you can get something like this with no screen in the more like hundred dollar range what about the 500 series yeah the 500 series is are you know 7 500 bucks on ebay when you can find them yeah and you end up with a radio that is far more durable yep you end up with a radio that is uh it's got some more usefulness to it if you have that pre-assembled team and you have a plan a communications plan to go with your other uh your other plans that you have that starts to be a really really useful thing so if you're serious about being able to communicate with your team and you already have a team you should consider this the other thing that's cool about it is there's a bunch of people at t-rex who are not going to get their ham radio licenses they just aren't they're too busy and finding the time for it is problematic we're not allowed to use amateur radio for the business use that we actually have as a business and so having us having our company have a business ban license where we own the right to use some frequencies is pretty handy and we can just hand these to people who work for the company and it's something that they can now use legally without any difficulties right is really valuable and if you have a gun club with 20 guys in it there's going to be guys in there that cannot make the time uh especially this year with the testing issues you cannot make the time to go get a ham radio license and a gun club spending 170 dollars i think for a 10-year 10-year business so so the way it works is when you go to when you go to register a business license um there's a couple different paths you can take and there's these frequencies that you have to get allocated to you and basically at that point you're buying a frequency and you are the only user for that frequency in that area and that's more expensive because it requires a frequency coordinator and stuff like that so that's more expensive but there's also these other frequencies called itinerant frequencies that are sort of available it's part of this pool that's kind of no coordination needed kind of anybody can use it also you can you can use those frequencies around the country as i understand or at least around the state so it's more flexible but there's no guarantee that when you get that frequency you're going to be the only one on that frequency there might be a couple other businesses that have said hey i want to register these four frequencies and maybe they got number you know your number one is their number three and you know it doesn't really matter but you should have backups you can go register itinerant um frequencies for if you do the paperwork yourself i want to say it's about 200 bucks we went to a and there's some tutorials out there on the internet that actually will walk you through going and doing your paperwork to get your frequency i have a pdf open here i think it's the how to do part 90 legally and if you google around you'll find some of these tutorials and i just decided i didn't have time to wade through the fcc's website and actually do the stuff because no one does i went and started poking with your website i was like this is really antiquated i don't want to monkey with this which is true so amateur stuff too we use very antiquated yeah we used a company called atlantic radio which is based in florida and they i think we paid 450 to register a handful of frequencies so and that's good for 10 years so if you have a whole bunch of people you have a business purpose that's articulable you can you can get one of these it's really not that expensive in the grand scheme of things and then you can start doing your dmr and your digital stuff on that and your encryption and you're golden um now one other thing we're using hyteras not motorolas we bought some motorolas the problem with motorola is there's many problems they're super totalitarian in in my reading experience not programming experience the programming software i think i want to say it's like two or three hundred bucks for like a three-year license and so if you only want to program up a few radios and be able to change them regularly suddenly that's way too expensive hytera software is pretty much free if you're buying hytera radios some companies are super protective of their of their their customer programming software other companies are they kind of don't really care they kind of give it away for free and and that is a part of it you know you can't just pick a radio that's really cool like these uh xpr 6500s are really cool and you can find them online for like one or two hundred bucks and they're good dmr radios and they're durable and stuff but programming is a big headache and motorola makes it that way on purpose because they are jerks and they treat other companies uh like they are jerks so hytera is the motorola of china um and that's not our favorite thing about them uh but they fight with motorola a lot and they have constant lawsuits back that is our favorite thing about it well it's fun to watch anyway well like like here's one of the scummy things that motorola does so a department goes and buys radios like this so this is like i think this is a like an eight or nine hundred dollar radio new i could be wrong on that and um you know so the department has these radios they use them for five years and they decide to upgrade well the new xpr radios that motorola is selling are like five grand a pop so they say you know what we'll do a trade-in for you you give us your old radios which motorola then promptly destroys you give us your old radios and we'll sell you these new ones a little bit cheaper and the way it works is they go and get a grant from fema and i think radios are like ninety percent grantable yes so that five thousand dollar radio only cost the department 500 and a trade-in so these radios that could get passed down to other end users get taken and destroyed and then our tax dollars are used to pay for that overblown wildly expensive and super cool radio and motorola spends a bunch of that money that they made hiring lawyers to go and lobby so that there are a bunch of new rules and regulations for law enforcement and public safety radios that they get the contracts for and they make the grant uh applications for and they make the grant money on to buy more liars to do more lobbying to maintain the monopoly that they have in that space and i don't really know how it all works you know that's that's that's the whole plan yeah that you don't know it's not conspiracy theory but it probably isn't yeah so motorola is very cool i wish i could i wish i had a contact that had the software they could just program these for me but the problem is you know i can program these whenever i want and if we have a slight tweak in our needs i just be like hey i'll add another contact i'll add another frequency or you know whatever i need to change the encryption key i can change the encryption key that's one of the other cool things about this let's say we have an employee well let's say we have one of these radios stolen you know they have all our settings now well they don't have our encryption key the encryption key is encrypted on the radio so they don't actually have that if we go and change our encryption key now their radio can't listen to or talk to our radios effectively they could probably kind of sort of jam but that's about it yeah there's also commercial radios have the ability to remotely stun or kill uh and i don't know exactly how that works with our repeater but it's something that our repeater can do and it's a function that these radios have yeah there's there's software that lets you program the radios over the air like oh no a radio got stolen okay first let's stun or kill that radio like let's say we don't know if it's stolen may just be lost we'll stun that radio it won't even be able to talk anymore or listen and then if we recover it we can unstun it or we could kill it we could permanently destroy it remotely and then we could we could push over the air new programming instructions to our fleet of radios yeah so there's a bunch of features that make these things totally worth it especially when you buy them used but you have to actually have the kind of plan that takes those things into account to get the benefit but it's something that you should really really think through um who is on your team what are you going to be doing what sort of plan what sort of features what sort of resources do you have available so t-rex is a company that is big enough that it justifies having some radios radios were already going to be something that we did personally it was already going to be something that we were going to do with the people inside of t-rex as friends who want to be able to communicate with each other and do disaster relief and stuff like that so it was already on our to-do list there was already the the infrastructure of that friend group to do that stuff but t-rex needing radios for for some of our video production work and some of our organizational work or some of our range work justifies uh doing enough research that we made the jump from hobby amateur radio stuff over to the commercial businessman radios and the advantages are pretty significant and they're definitely worth thinking of you just have to know what you're getting into in terms of the complexity and in terms of the extra money because it is extra money but you are getting some significant benefits when you pay that extra money that said if you just want some convenient communications for your family or your shooting group or whatever it is still really really hard whoa to beat cell phones i mean they are the most amazing radios that exist currently um uh they're the most amazing radios that exist currently that you can buy that there are some other stuff and it's frustrating how much research and development and invention goes into building new cell phone radios and new cell phone radio protocols and how little actually goes into ham radio development there is some but it's not a lot it's a fraction and how much goes into commercial radio development there is some but it's a fraction and a lot of that research is dependent upon building a large monopoly that capitalizes upon the military industrial complex or whatever um to make money it's it's really frustrating to me that the amateur uh radio rules are are so old and and so arbitrary in some ways like there are rules against encryption we already talked about that their rules against forwarding of messages on certain bands which is how a lot of stuff actually works there's even speed limits on um how quickly you can transmit data and it's like pre-dial up internet speeds yes bod limits on a bunch of stuff there's there's also rules on ham radio like no transmission of music oh certainly not unless it's playing on a spacecraft yes then it's okay that's that's uh that's an important uh question that you need to remember the correct answer to when you take a ham radio test because because those are the rules because astronauts need music or something i don't know well you know they're technically like does it count as international waters there's there's some sort of uh ham radio uh radio on the international space station and actually you can use a 5 watt handheld radio to talk to the space station and i think they transmit music as part of their their when the astronauts are too busy to just talk to ham radio it's something like that and that's why they have that carve out or something so but uh basically this is all super cool um these are more durable than cell phones as a general rule they let you do things that cell phones won't let you do they have resiliency you know if everything goes down there's no power you have com still they're super convenient compared to cell phones like if i want to send a message on my phone it's multiple clicks to get there with this radio i dial the dial to where i want it and i push the button and the message goes through and that's kind of all there is to it and that's what makes them so so awesome if you just have to send a message right now it's a life or death matter radios still have the edge over cell phones because you know unlocking your phone going to the app finding the app finding the place in the app doing the thing is too much time assuming that you have internet to begin with so um exactly let's talk a little bit about another aspect of this which is um probably a good pessimistic place to end this um i don't know if you've been paying much attention because it's been kind of busy but twitter and facebook have blocked people from sharing certain news articles about a certain presidential candidate's son so you're not allowed to talk about certain things on facebook and instagram so there's a fair amount of de-platforming that we're already seeing on the internet i'm glad they're protecting baron's privacy that's a good thing oh yes well you made the logical uh assumption uh i'm sure yes that's exactly what i was talking about but one of the things that that we haven't seen a whole lot of is when will david botkin lose his at t privileges right when will i be d platformed um from verizon for my aberrant second amendment beliefs if amy comey barrett is a second amendment extremist then what are we what are we where we're definitely people who are too dangerous to allow on regular cell phone networks we should lose our second amendment and first amendment rights this is a conversation that's already happening and it's a conversation that if you take the wrong side of it isn't allowed on certain social media platforms and it's actually something that's coming to utilities i'm not sure if you followed this but california has been cutting off certain people's water and electricity and sewer if they think that they're having too many people in their homes uh and they're violating some of the covid related health uh mandates so because there's no health problems with cutting off people's sewer yes well if you're having a party and you're violating the governor's rules right you you get what you get this is very important california principle so this is the road to the black death if the state is already targeting its uh political enemies by requiring that utilities turn off their water and their power turning off internet access is something that is definitely definitely on the horizon so that is another reason to have alternative communications handy and i'm being a little bit pessimistic but if we're watching people turn off of turn off people's power and water because of violating little tiny rules if we're seeing people who are not allowed to talk about certain news stories because of the political the possible political damage of that news story being kicked off of your internet provider is something that we're probably going to see next year right it's something to bear in mind as well as all the natural disaster stuff that happens and just because it doesn't happen to most people most of the time doesn't mean that you shouldn't think about having radios so a couple action items i would say everyone should get a couple really cheap china radios absolutely and i say china radios just because i'm not aware of another nationality radio that exists that's good i mean these are so cheap and and they they work so well in our experience um and then learn how to use them start playing with them programming them um you know you can put these as i understand it i'm not a lawyer i'm not your lawyer as i understand it you can put these on the merge frequencies and use them totally legally and you might be able to put them on the gmrs frequencies and use them legally as well if you go get that license and they just extended the length of that license and made it better and stuff um i don't quite know all the rules because it just happened only three years ago which in fcc time is like super recent and i didn't hear about it until just a couple weeks ago but go get some of these and then start counting the costs of looking at systems you know dmr radios with more features you know do you have the group of people that can actually make use of it if you don't start building that group of people right and that's kind of one of the big thing is you're talking radios it implies you must have friends to talk to or else you're just you're just buying tactical clutter for your garage too many people do that you know go get the friends meet people in your local community that you can actually talk to with stuff like this and you actually have a reason to talk to you know ideally you go to the range you make use of it you practice it you do other things and you practice your radio stuff but count the cost on these don't just jump into dmr radios because they're cool and they'll look awesome when you're on your kit don't do it unless you're actually going to do it right and actually know how to program it and stuff like i bought these radios it was kind of sort of for props for our media channel and i thought i'll figure out how to program them and that was like three years ago or something and i never programmed them because the software was too expensive and i didn't have time and so count the cost have a plan have a plan have friends but move in that direction um you know what we really need to do a video on what's that we need to do a video on something like signal wire or one of these other telegram one of these other chat apps and they're actually really good good to do that before the election but i think it's kind of too late for that maybe if there is someone who is a security researcher that knows something about that and can talk about the crypto aspect get in touch with us uh the best way to contact us is probably teams at trex dash arms dot com or t-rex talk at trexdasharms.com we would that would be a really good thing to talk about because there is going to be there's going to be some value in talking over the internet for sure because going from an analog handheld radio to a digital commercial handheld radio is a lot of time and effort and money and skill going to something like hf that does let you talk around the country or around the world takes a whole new level of skill and radio understanding that's going to be very difficult to build in a short amount of time so as long as the internet works you can talk to people on the other side of the world super easily and doing so with some level of privacy and security is extremely important yes yeah so if you know about that let us know we're going to do our own research and try to figure out what's what's the best app to move everyone towards we use microsoft teams quite a bit interestingly teams is just releasing it's kind of still beta this doesn't apply to most people but they're actually deploying a little walkie-talkie app that's built into microsoft teams and that's kind of cool there's there's a bunch of things that are out there that are like that i really liked discord and i still kind of do from a functionality standpoint but they've been de-platforming people they kicked off a fairly large group of people many of whom i know personally for being associated with other people that i know personally and those guys are not allowed on discord in any way shape or form period because of political stuff that was completely untrue so so yeah so figuring out some of this stuff is very important um and we're probably not going to be on youtube for forever either i actually anticipate there being some crackdowns as things start happening around some event next week or so that i forget what it is right but uh yeah yeah because it might yeah it's you know election meddling is really really a problem and it has to be stopped by any and all means so the t-rex youtube channel uh may not last forever but this conversation that we are having in all of the live conversations we have at tx talks are also a podcast that you can search for and if you go to our website you can sign up for our newsletter our newsletter is uh one of the only communication things that's like really secure it's under our control everything else is uh running on somebody else's platform email newsletters are kind of like hf radio goes really far really hard to shut down so if you're not on our email newsletter go get on it that's the way we're going to keep in touch with people if everything else goes away and the possibility of other stuff going away totally exists so on that very cheerful note please enjoy the rest of your week yup i'm not sure what the next live stream is going to be about because there's just no telling what's going to happen between now and then but it's going to be interesting and it's going to be fun so yeah thanks for watching and we'll talk to you later stay safe stay sane you

Channel: T.REX ARMS

Views: 524,938

Keywords: DMR radio, amateur radio, commercial radio, business band radio, programming DMR, codeplugs, emcomm, emergency communications, t.rex arms, Isaac Botkin, David Botkin

Id: h0GdPra8-oI

Length: 73min 5sec (4385 seconds)

Published: Wed Oct 28 2020