6th COMMITTEE, ALSO ANDREW WEISSMANN, CO-HOST OF THE PODCAST PROSECUTING DONALD TRUMP, AN MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST. ANDREW, I JUST WANT TO PUT UP ON THE SCREEN AS WE DISCUSS THE SIX DIFFERENT CRIMES THAT INCLUDE FORGERY, TAMPERING WITH A PUBLIC RECORD. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF WHAT YOU'RE READING HERE? >> A COUPLE THINGS. ONE, IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN OTHER STATES WHERE THERE HAVE BEEN CHARGES IN GEORGIA AND MICHIGAN WHERE THERE WAS A TOP DOWN SCHEME. WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THAT TIM AND HIS COLLEAGUES PUT TOGETHER A VAST AMOUNT OF PROOF THAT WAS ADDED ONTO BY JACK SMITH WHICH SHOWED THIS FAKE ELECTOR SCHEME WAS HAPPENING FROM THE CAMPAIGN DOWN TO THE STATES. THIS WAS NOT BUBBLING UP AT A GRASSROOTS LEVEL. THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SEEING FAKE ELECTORS AT THE ARIZONA LEVEL AND PEOPLE AT THE CAMPAIGN LEVEL AND INTO THE WHITE HOUSE. THAT'S THE SECOND POINT. I WAS STRUCK BY ON PAGE 44 OF THIS INDICTMENT ERIC HERSCHMANN WHO WAS A WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL SEEMS ONCE AGAIN TO BE VERY MUCH AN IMPORTANT WITNESS IN THE CASE AND HE IS ON A TEXT MESSAGE WHERE BASICALLY HE AND A COLLEAGUE ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY AREN'T GOING TO SIGN OFF ON THIS BECAUSE HE VIEWS THIS AS -- AND THIS IS A QUOTE IN THE INDICTMENT -- CERTIFYING ILLEGAL VOTES, CERTIFYING ILLEGAL VOTES IS WHAT HE WROTE AND HE SAID SOMEONE ELSE IS GOING TO HAVE TO SIGN IT AND HE SAYS, "RUDY, BORIS, AND JENNA," AND THOSE NAMES ARE ACTUALLY THREE OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE CHARGED OR APPEAR TO BE CHARGED. SO THOSE ARE MY QUICK TAKES OF THE CHARGES HERE. >> TIM, DID YOU LEARN ANYTHING IN THIS INDICTMENT THAT YOU HADN'T ALREADY HAD A PRETTY CLEAR SENSE OF IN THE JANUARY 6th INVESTIGATION? >> YEAH, LAWRENCE. A FEW DETAILS, BUT NOT THE BIG PICTURE. THE BIG PICTURE HAS BEEN CLEAR FOR A WHILE. THIS WAS A TOP DOWN PLAN WHICH BECOMES ESSENTIALLY A PREDICATE FOR VICE PRESIDENT PENCE OR THE SUPREME COURT OR SOME ENTITY TO DO SOMETHING TO PREVENT THE TRANSFER OF POWER. SO THERE'S SOME COLOR. THERE'S SOME DETAILS OF WHICH WE WERE NOT AWARE. WE DID NOT TALK TO AS MANY PEOPLE ABOUT ARIZONA SPECIFICALLY AS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS DONE, BUT IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE CORE NARRATIVE THAT THE FAKE ELECTORS WERE AN INDISPENSABLE MEANS TO PROMOTE THIS MULTIPART PLAN TO TRY TO PREVENT THE CERTIFICATION AND TRANSFER OF POWER. >> ANDREW WEISSMANN, HE WAS INDICTED IN GEORGIA AND HAS PLEADED GUILTY IN GEORGIA AND THERE WERE REPORTS HE HAD TRAVELED TO ARIZONA TO COOPERATE WITH THIS INVESTIGATION. >> THAT SEEMS TO BE THE MAIN REASON WHY HE WAS NOT CHARGED HERE IS THAT HE IS ACTUALLY COOPERATING OR MAYBE I SHOULD SAY AT LEAST COOPERATING ENOUGH TO NOT BE CHARGED. I THINK THE JURY'S OUT ABOUT JUST HOW CANDID HE HAS BEEN, BUT IT'S OTHERWISE HARD TO EXPLAIN WHY HIS NAME DOES NOT APPEAR AND PRESUMABLY IT'S BECAUSE HE HAS COUNSEL WHO HAS SAID LOOK, IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF A V, MEANING UNITED STATES VERSUS OR IN THIS CASE ARIZONA VERSUS, YOU NEED TO START FINDING RELIGION AND JOIN TEAM AMERICA. SO IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THAT IS THE MAIN REASON THAT YOU DON'T SEE HIS NAME HERE BECAUSE OTHERWISE AS TIM KNOWS VERY WELL FROM HAVING INVESTIGATED THIS DEEPLY, HE WAS IN THE THICK OF THINGS AND WE KNOW THAT ACTUALLY ALSO FROM HIS OWN PLEA IN GEORGIA. >> SO THIS MEETING OF THE FAKE ELECTORS WAS PUBLICIZED AT THE TIME. I THINK WE HAVE VIDEO OF IT WHERE THEY ALLOWED IT TO BE COVERED ACTUALLY AS THOUGH IT WAS SOME KIND OF REAL EVENT WITH SOME IMPORT TO IT. WE'LL SHOW THAT VIDEO IN THE CONTROL ROOM AS SOON AS WE CAN PUT IT -- THERE IT IS. THAT'S THE ACTUAL MEETING RIGHT THERE WE'RE PUTTING ON THE SCREEN. THOSE ARE THE INDICTED FAKE ELECTORS SITTING THERE AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THE INDICTMENT STRESSES THAT THEY WERE LYING ABOUT THE PURPOSES OF THAT MEETING. AT THE TIME THEY WERE SEEING WE WILL ONLY USE THESE ELECTORS IN THE EVENT THAT DONALD TRUMP SOMEHOW WINS ONE OF HIS LEGAL CASES IN COURT THAT COULD THEN ALLOW THESE ELECTORS TO BE USED. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S INDICTMENT SAYS ABSOLUTELY NOT. THEY ALWAYS PLANNED TO TRY TO USE THESE ELECTORS ON JANUARY 6th NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENED IN COURT. TIM, THERE'S A LAST LINE THAT APPEARS AT THE END OF THE CHARGE AGAINST EVERY ELECTOR BEGINNING WITH KELLI WARD AND THE LAST LINE SAYS, "SHE DID NOT WITHDRAW HER VOTE EVEN THOUGH NO LEGAL CHALLENGE SUCCESSFULLY CHANGED THE OUTCOME OF ARIZONA'S 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION." THAT SAME LINE APPEARS AT THE END OF THE DESCRIPTION OF EVERY OTHER ELECTOR AND WHAT THEY DID AND IT SEEMS IN READING IT THAT THIS ATTORNEY GENERAL WOULD NOT BE BRINGING THIS PROSECUTION IF THEY ACTUALLY DID WHAT THEY PUBLICLY CLAIMED THEY WERE GOING TO DO, WHICH IS WITHDRAW THESE ELECTORS ONCE THE ELECTION WAS CERTIFIED FOR JOE BIDEN. >> YEAH. EXACTLY RIGHT. THERE WAS ONE FAKE ELECTOR TO WHOM WE SPOKE IN GEORGIA WHO ANALOGIZED THE FAKE ELECTOR T- SHIRTS IN THAT STATE TO SUPER BOWL T-SHIRTS. HE SAID BEFORE THE SUPER BOWL YOU PRINT T-SHIRTS THAT SAY BOTH TEAMS WON SO THAT WHOEVER ACTUALLY WINS, THEIR T-SHIRT IS ALREADY PRINTED. THE OTHER ONES GET TOSSED BECAUSE THE OUTCOME DOESN'T TURN OUT CONSISTENT WITH THE T- SHIRT. THERE WERE FAKE ELECTORS IN GEORGIA AND OTHER STATES WHO BELIEVED THAT THIS WAS ESSENTIALLY THE SAME, A CONTINGENCY, BUT THE LANGUAGE YOU JUST CITED SHOWS THAT THE ARIZONA ELECTORS KNEW THAT REALLY ISN'T TIED TO THE SUCCESS OF ANY CASE BECAUSE THE CASES HAVE BEEN FILED. THE CASES HAD BEEN LARGELY DISPOSED OF, HAD NOT PREVAILED AND EVEN AFTER THEY WEREN'T WITHDRAWN WHEN ALL THE CASES IN ARIZONA ARE REJECTED FOR LACK OF EVIDENCE. SO THE THEORY HERE IS THAT THERE WAS NEVER ANY SERIOUS CONTINGENCY. THESE WERE MEANT TO BE AN APPARATUS FOR MIKE PENCE TO CHOOSE FOR POLITICAL MOTIVATION THE TRUMP ELECTORS BECAUSE OF THESE VAGUE SUSPICIONS OF VOTER FRAUD ABSENT ANY EVIDENCE. THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT CRIMINAL, NOT A GOOD FAITH HEY, JUST IN CASE THE LITIGATION GOES ONE WAY, WE NEED THIS BACKUP PLAN. THE LACK OF A DRAW AS THAT LANGUAGE REFLECTS SHOWS THIS WAS ALWAYS MEANT TO APPLY AND BE SAID AND BE CONSIDERED BY CONGRESS REGARDLESS OF THE LITIGATION. >> ANDREW, BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE GEORGIA INDICTMENT AND THIS INDICTMENT. DONALD TRUMP DOESN'T MAKE IT INTO THE INDICTED COLUMN IN THIS INDICTMENT. DONALD TRUMP, AS WE RECALL, MADE HIS DEBUT IN CRIMINAL INDICTMENTS AS INDIVIDUAL RUN IN NEW YORK IN THE FEDERAL INDICTMENT OF MICHAEL COHEN IN THE STORMY DANIELS PAYOFF CASE. NOW TONIGHT IN ARIZONA HE IS A CO-CONSPIRATOR ONE. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE IN THE EVIDENCE BETWEEN GEORGIA AND ARIZONA? OBVIOUSLY WE DON'T HAVE A TAPE RECORDED TELEPHONE CALL WITH THE SECRETARY OF STATE OF ARIZONA. >> YEAH. I MEAN THAT OBVIOUSLY IS A HUGE PIECE OF EVIDENCE GEORGIA HAS. IT'S NOT CLEAR YET WHY WE HAVE ALTER EGOS BEING CHARGED IN ARIZONA, BUT NOT THE EGO, THE MAIN PRINCIPAL PERSON FOR WHOM THIS IS DONE. THE FAKE ELECTORS DIDN'T DO THIS ON THEIR OWN. PEOPLE LIKE RUDY GIULIANI, ALL OF THE SORT OF LAWYERS ARE STAFFED TO SOMEBODY WHO IS THE PRESIDENT, BUT IT'S UNCLEAR WHAT THE LACK OF PROOF IS. FOR SURE IT IS BECAUSE THEY SOMEHOW DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DIRECT EVIDENCE YET AGAINST HIM, BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT I STRESS THE WORD YET. THESE ARE STATE CHARGES WHICH MEANS REGARDLESS OF WHO WINS THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, WHETHER IT'S BIDEN OR TRUMP, IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE YOU CANNOT HAVE A FEDERAL PARDON OF THESE CASES. SO THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE GOING TO TRIAL IN ARIZONA ON THESE CHARGES. JUST TO BE CLEAR, WHAT TIM IS SAYING SO PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS NO JOKE, THESE CHARGES, IF PROVED, REALLY SHOW THIS IS WHAT YOU SEE IN LIKE PETTY BANANA REPUBLICS. THIS IS FUNDAMENTALLY UNDERMINING WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A DEMOCRACY, ABSOLUTELY UNDERMINING THE VOTES IN THESE STATES WHERE THE IDEA IS WHOEVER WON, THAT DOESN'T MATTER. THE DEMOCRACY IS NOT GOING TO
