Thread Depth, Tool Tip Width and Length of Cut NO TRIG NEEDED

hey guys joepie here at advanced innovations welcome back to my shop forgive my voice I got some seasonal Texas allergies and they are kicking my butt well the last video that I just did on the compound infeed angle inspired so many comments and I got so much feedback that I just feel compelled to follow up on that particular topic and based on some of the feedback that I'm getting from you guys it is apparent that there is a lot of different techniques going on and naturally whatever works for you creates a good part stick with it but let me clear up a couple of other things for you I'm going to go over the width of the flat on the tip of the tool how does it affect the threat how does it affect the pitch diameter what's what's it all about what is a pitch diameter how can you find it can you find it easily and as far as dialing in at twenty nine and a half degrees twenty nine degrees 30 degrees everyone is saying well you have to figure out the cosine of this and the cosine of that and you have to do trig the cut of thread it disagree your machine is is a very precision piece of equipment and you shouldn't need to do any trig to cut a thread so let's call it a board and I'll show you what I'm talking about pull my eyes on let's talk about the flat on the tip of the tool there's the OD of your part now the flat on the tip of your threading tool is supposed to be 1/8 of the pitch that's a really good rule to follow right there one a the pitch now what's better more or less now if you're going to ask me I'm going to say less is better because if you're going with a depth of thread specification to cut your thread and you have a greater flat on the tip of your tool watch what happens let's say we're going to cut this thread to a very specific depth now I don't know about you but I don't pay attention to the depth of the thread I pay attention to the flat on the tool and the pitch diameter because that's what's going to allow your thread to go together with any other part on the planet you don't have to never use a nut don't ever use hardware measure precision get some waters go to gauge whatever okay here's your depth of your cut let's call it just for yucks 100,000 the tip of your tool is too big so you plunge your tool in dial it in slide it in and get it in I don't care how you get it in but when you reach your 100 depth if the flat on the tip of your tool is too big well then the calculated pitch diameter is going to be too small because technically there's your thread there's your correct flat your error okay now your wire is sitting down in here somewhere when it's supposed to be further out because you paid attention to the depth of the thread and the tip of your tool had the wrong flat on all right what happens if it's too sharp - sharp is the way to go in my opinion unless you have a bore on the inside of the part that you don't want to drive into or you're threatening somewhere in the vicinity of an o-ring groove - sharp is the way to go so if you're eyeballing this and you're coming up on the flat you're using the jeweler's loupe in a vernier caliper or a micrometer if you don't have an optical comparator to check that to make sure it's 1/8 go a little bit smaller than the 1/8 and I'll show you why that is real small oK you've achieved your depth your flat is right here the tip of the tool would only be minimal as far as that is concerned and now the wire sits out here when you go to measure your pitch diameter over top of those wires you're going to find out that you need to cut more and you didn't blow your part so a smaller tip on the smaller flat on the tip of your tool will absolutely be more beneficial than one that's too big and that's you know find one that's five thousand so I'm an inch across and stick with it do all your threads with that unless you're down around a a 40 pitch or a 32 pitch you do something real fine then you need a real sharp one but smaller flat on the tool is definitely the way to go it's the way I go everybody works differently but in my experience in my shop the smaller tip always gets the nod all right thread depth you have your cross slide which is perpendicular to the axis of your part you have your part and you have your compound at whatever angle 29:30 whatever angle you choose that you're comfortable with that works for you there you go well in a triangle on the debt or the base leg of that triangle is only accurate if this angle is spot on or this angle is spot on you've got to know exactly I mean exactly what those angles are one or the other in order for this depth to come into play now people are saying all right i dial my tool in until it hits the park bring your threading tool in making contact with the part you can see the little witness line that it will use little scratch data leaves and say all right well I have this big trick formula over here that I'm going to need to figure out how far to move at this angle to get that depth you don't need to do that and you know what you don't need to do that I'll ship it you don't need to do that because you have a cross slide on it that has a calibrated dial if you're looking to achieve a specific depth with your compound and you already have a lead screw perpendicular to the axis of your part that's calibrated and we'll give you anything you want use this all right now a bunch of guys are just about ready to type into comment and say I don't use my cross slide to thread good don't stay with your compound excellent but here's the trick here's your dial on your cross line cranking your dial on your cross line let's do a little knob on it cranking the dial on your cross slide until your tool touches your part okay wonderful you have your witness scratch on your part now because you're making contact minimal but it's there record that number on the dial look at the number that you have on that dial and if you're using depth of cut or depth of thread to figure it out and you have the depth of your finish thread dilate twice that because chances are it's a diameter reduction dial and you're going to need to dial in twice that to get the depth of the threat okay try to follow this I'm going to take you out to the lay that I'm going to do this right on apart so you can see again and not on the board because not everybody likes the board your compound is now set at 29 degrees your tool is perpendicular to the work with a 60 degree profile on it and your dial on your compound is set at 0 wonderful leave that crank in your cross-slide until you get this witness mark look at that number and this is the point where you take that compound and back it out ok back it out get it out of the equation get that tool off the part when you make this shift to get your thread depth on the cross slide leave it you're done now all you have to do when you thread is dial in with your compound until you come back to 0 you got you're dead you don't have to do trig you don't have to go to charts you don't have to worry about how precision your angle is the worry is gone you have made a perpendicular axis shift to accomplish the depth of cut and you when you come back to zero on your compound you're there all right that's a no-brainer does if you haven't tried that try it it's going to work really well for you what else does that allow you to do or there are any fringe benefits to that well yeah there's a fringe benefit to that let's say you have a print that has a very specific termination point on that thread they've given you this right here they've given it to you and they need it and they want it and if they don't get it they're going to reject that part now if you're coming in with your compound as your compound moves the tip of that tool well the tip of that tool is technically going linear to the to the axis it's moving towards the chuck or away from the chuck depending on how you thread so with the technique that I just showed you once you dial in your depth when you're dialing back to your zero on your compound you know exactly where that point is so take your tool bump your tool against the face of your part if you know how thick your tool is and you know where that Center is move it in halfway you know where the zero is you've done all the other mechanics you can now thread directly to this hit this number and the inspector comes out and shakes your hand now that was kind of quick you might have to watch that two or three times to pick up on what I just said but I'm going to walk out to the engine lay then I'm going to cut a thread and I'm going to cut it with my compound headed towards the headstock of the machine which is not what I do but for you I will do that and I will show you exactly what I'm talking about so let's take a walk out of the shop and watch it get done alright guys I'm standing by my machine now and if your notice in a black shirt and not that obnoxious lime-green one I don't wear those in the shop because they're so bright and so loud that it I don't want to get them dirty simple anyway I'm going to set the stage for you and forgive the handheld nature of this but I'm going to bounce around so many things on this machine that if it's not handheld you're probably going to get dizzy or anyway alright compound is set 29 degrees right there I hope you can see that I have a reference mark on my slide that just visually lines up with the bottom casting the top dial is set clockwise to zero I'm using an insert tool that's two hundred thousandths of an inch wide and it has about a five thousand is set up for 13 threads per inch this is my thread chart here's my 13 lb 70 in the B range so I know I'm always in glow which is the L here's the B because I have three selections seven on my gear selector T on the range and V because I'm threading so there is no question in anybody's mind right now that this machine is set up for 13 threads per inch alright now why 13 threads per inch I just pulled a chart off the internet and 13 threads per inch the Perseid depth of your thread is 50,000 stration thirteen threads per inch single depth of thread 50,000 stration it's just a good round number to use and I'm going to show you how on this part we're going to cut a 13 pitch thread on this part exactly 50000 inch back and it's going to end up absolutely perfect and we're not going to use any trig to do it so let me reset the camera the image is going to reverse this way because I'm bringing the camera in from the backside of the machine so I can actually do this for you but hang on for a second and watch this happen alright guys just because so many of you thread towards the headstock I'm going to single point my first thread in over 35 years towards the head I never do this but since this is the way that seems to be popular I am going to do it for this demonstration all right we are going to check off several of the details of this thread one at a time and I'm going to show you how it all works out right now the compound is still set at zero and any movement you see of this threading tool in and out is being done with the cross slide I'm going to make contact with the face of this part right now and if you don't have a digital readout this is where you would set your drop indicator on the side of your machine or some other method by which you can measure the movement of this carriage when I bump against the face of this tool like I said before this tool is 200 wide I'm going to zero out my digital which I just did I'm going to move in a hundred thousand I am going to read zero that digital just for yucks I'm going to move this tool in to see if it's anywhere it's close to the edge face of that part and it definitely is alright now as a termination point I am going to move the carriage the additional one inch that let's say it calls out on your print one inch at this point I'm going to read 0 my digital or re0 your indicator whatever you have to do this is where the thread is going to terminate the compound is still set on 0 I'm going to turn the machine on I am going to make contact with this tool with the cross slide and I am going to cut a stationary radial groove in this part 155 [Music] little sharpie marker around the OD never heard just watch for a nice line to show up and you know you're making contact little moving just a little bit alright there's contact now I'm not a big fan of stopping a piece with a threading tool touching it but for this demonstration I'm going to do it right now on my cross slide dial I'm sitting on 125 so if I want to move this tool in 50,100 more but if I were to do that right now I would crack this tool so here's where you back off your compound now I'm going to move the cross slide in 100,000 that will give me a 50,000 per side my cross slide dial is now sitting on 25 and I am NOT going to move that for the duration of this exercise it's going to stay where it is when my compound comes back to 0 I will have the correct depth and the correct length of this particular thread on this part and I'm actually going to do it so you can see it happen [Music] first thing I'm going to do is plunge this in with the compound and come back to zero so I have a trough for the threading tool to fall into at the conclusion of the thread take some of the stress out all right that is a 50,000 my compound is sitting on 0 I just fed that in at 29 degrees now I'm going to back up do not touch the cross slide I'll leave the cross slide dial set because the cross slide dial just gave you your death [Music] [Music] [Music] stopped about 5,000 on that one I'm sure you could now as you get closer to the end of your thread it's not a bad idea to use the side of your tool put the chanter on your part okay this pass right now the compound has returned to zero the index mark on the side of the compound is lined up visually so I know that I'm at this same mark 25 on the cross slide is still intact let's make the final cut [Music] that is a 50,000 forgive me for stopping short a couple of times on that I am not used to threading towards the headstock I always start at my groove and thread out but that's just my technique right now the top of this thread is really ratty from the material that's being displaced and if you were to blow that up you would see it burr on either side of the crest of this thread so it's a real good idea before you try to mate your part or your gauge or whatever you're going to check this thread with take some Emery and knock that off take a file and knock it off [Music] [Music] once you've successfully knocked the burr off take one finish pass just to make sure that you didn't roll the burr back into the thread and you're going to come up with a nice clean tread one more time couple of spring passes is not a bad idea [Music] okay like I said on the demonstration inside and forgive the chatter on that that was an exceptionally deep first cut and coming in at 29 degrees that's the risk you take I'll show you how to clean that up too by the way now when you measure your thread at this point if your tip of your tool is a little sharper than the one eighth pitch flat that's recommended right now your pitch diameter is going to be oversized you want to maintain that zero on your compound so you stop exactly at your depth required but if you need to make a pitch diameter adjustment right now you can do it with your cross slide now a lot of you guys coming in at 29 degrees do most of your threading with the compound for the majority of the thread and the last pass or so you might dial in another 5000 your cross slide to clean it up so I'm kind of glad we got a little bit of noise on here I'm going to do exactly that right now and let's watch that clean up [Music] the compound has been returned to the zero position for the final depth of the thread the 25 that's currently on my cross slide I'm going to take it to 30 by increasing the depth of the thread on the cross slide I have effectively made the thread deeper but I have not lost my position from the front to year you I was a 5-2 and a half hi boy [Music] alright 13 pitch thread the depth is controlled the length is controlled everything was done on the compound for cutting except the final cleanup passes at the end and that was actually a viewer suggestion that's not something I had ever done or considered but I think it's a great idea and when you have noise on your thread the infeed of the cross slide for the final cut it's really not a bad idea I like it anyway if you're inverting your tool and you're threading from the inside out with the non screw on Chuck you can have that tool drop right down in that start groove every time spot-on and thread out you'll never have any discrepancy in the end of the thread as I was watching my digital readout on this I was anywhere between eight and fifteen thousand I hit the stop there you go guys depth controlled length controlled everything done by the compound just come back to your zeros because it's basically where you started as far as the pitch diameter is concerned if you're curious if you can hit your pitch diameter before you start the thread technically you can with a three wire method of checking this thread you would have two in the back and one in the front and just mic over top of them if you were to plunge initially into a piece of scrap with the radial groove you could use two wires just make sure that your micrometer is positioned correctly this way and that you find the high spot on the diameter this way you can actually set your pitch diameter quite accurately with two wires before you cut by setting it in this groove that's all I got for you hope it helped okay guys well I hope that practical demonstration that I just did helps you somewhat that is the first time I have run a thread towards the head in 30-plus years and I got to tell you I am NOT a fan of doing it that way I like my inverted tool method but if you have a screw on Chuck and you can't do it that way then stick with what you know stick with what you're comfortable with and stick with what is within your muscle memory and you know who that comment was for anyway quick summary with your compound set at zero bump your tool against the face of your part move in half the tool or move into the dimension that's going to give you the tip zero out your digital zero out your indicator however you control the length or the run of the thread move it in I like to work towards the zero instead of a number it doesn't matter everybody works different so when I reach my dimension I will Reiser oh my digital with your cross slide touch the OD of your tool move in the required thread depth a double it if it's a diameter reduction dial and leave the cross slide there back the tool out with the compound move the whole carriage out and start your threading process when the compound comes back to zero you have effectively put the tip of that tool right back here where it needs to be knocking out the depth and the length basically no stress and definitely no trick anyway I hope that helped and bio means engage me if there's another way that you guys do this that I don't I love learning new things I'm always open for feedback from my viewers so thank you to all my new subscribers thank you to my current subscribers love the comments keep them coming Joe paczynski advance innovations Austin Texas I'm out you you

Channel: Joe Pieczynski

Views: 152,618

Rating: 4.9413838 out of 5

Keywords: joe pie, joe pieczynski, advanced innovations, advanced innovations llc, threading tool tip width, Lathe tricks, lathe hacks, machine shop tutorials, manual lathe threading, thread depth, how to set your thread depth, running a thread, thread length control, setting up a thread, machine shop hacks

Id: nLHXSXzQP3U

Length: 31min 30sec (1890 seconds)

Published: Sun Dec 04 2016