THE OTHER GUYS INTAKE TEST-351 CLEVELAND (PLUS 351W)

[Music] hey guys richard holder here i'm back from west tech and it's time for a good old-fashioned intake shootout we're talking single plane versus dual plane and you know how i do it we're testing it on two motors in this video we're going to take a look at the age old question single plane versus dual plane on two different ford motors first of all we ran a single plane versus a dual plane on a mildly modified 351 windsor then we ran a single plane versus a dual plane on a mildly modified 4v cleveland now we know that cleveland has more head flow so here's my question which one of these combinations is going to like the single plane which one of these combinations is going to like the dual plane why are we asking all these questions let's get to the answers to demonstrate what happens in our comparison between single plane and dual plane intakes we ran them on two different motors as i described we have a 351 windsor and a 351 cleveland so we'll start out with the 351 windsor it's probably more common certainly in the united states although i know my australian guys love the cleveland and for good reason it's got a lot of cylinder head flow and can make a lot of power certainly a lot more than a factory windsor can because the winds are heads not nearly as good as the 4v cleveland stuff i mean a stock winds or head flows probably 155 or 160 cfm and a stock 4 cleveland flows 275 so it's a big difference in airflow and therefore a big difference in power potential but i want to demonstrate what the intake swap does on two fairly mild combinations you know not not wild and racy because we know if we're going to run lots of rpm and lots of power that we're definitely going to go with a single plane and we know if we're going to run a stock or very mild combination that we would go with the dual plane but what about that middle ground what happens during the transition point where it's a little bit good over here and a little bit good over here what do you do so that's kind of what i want to demonstrate here so the first one is a 351 windsor and it was actually a crate motor it started out as a crate motor from ford racing it was a 351 this particular one had been modified it was about nine and a half to one it had a dish piston in it it had a cam shaft that was odd it was a hydraulic roller it was 575 lift but it was 575 lift with a 1 5 rocker which is unusual for a for a 351 windsor the cam shaft was as i said 575 lift 228 234 degree duration and 110 degree lobe separation angle it had a set of holley heads on it you can see in the photo what the actual part number of the head is i don't think holly even offers his head anymore the test was run long ago it had a set of inch and three quarter headers um the block the crate motor actually came as an svo block which was cool which meant that we could make a lot of power with this thing if we wanted to in this particular combination it was fairly mild so it wasn't a big deal but it was nice to have that strength to start out with if we like stuck forwards and turtles and really want to you know put some boost to it to be kind of cool um we ran both of these combinations with the same 750 holley xp carburetor we also ran a brawler carburetor on this and that video is up also you guys can check that out where we compared a low dollar carburetor to the high dollar carburetor and and in these um combinations where we're not making a ton of power the brawler carburetor which is a is a good option makes every bit as much power as the um as the real expensive xp carburetor so that's kind of cool but we ran our 351 windsor first with an rpm intake manifold and we'll take a look here i want to make sure that this was a it was an air gap manifold which is kind of cool we find that the air gap sometimes is a little bit better than the standard rpm although sometimes they're identical so we ran that with the 750 carburetor and the inch and three quarter long tube headers it had an msd distributor and as always we did a little bit of jetting to try to optimize the combination and we did a timing sweep starting from 25 degrees all the way up past 35 degrees in this case this combination wanted to run best at 35 degrees of total timing so on the just on the carbureted stuff normally we would run a lock distributor we don't run a curve so this thing had 35 degrees of timing from start to finish and that seemed to where it may make best power so we first ran it with the dual plane intake and our 351 run with the dual plane intake manifold and that 750 carburetor made 420 horsepower and 428.7 foot-pounds of torque so we'll call that 429 foot-pounds of torque and here's what happened after we installed the single plane in this case the single plane was an edelbrock victor junior intake very common for a 351 or a 302 very common single plane used an awful lot and here is our single plane and what we typically see on single plane and dual plane comparisons is the single plane will make more power at the top the dual plane will make more power at the bottom and then the combination kind of determines where that crossover is sometimes it can be on a like on a 351 or a stroke or 351 a 408 the crossover may be very low the single plane might start making more power at 4 000 rpm let's say but in this case the crossover was about 40 between 4 900 and 5000 rpm right in here right in this range where the single plane started making a little bit more power than the dual plane below that point the difference was substantial at 3 900 rpm we had 402 foot pounds for the single plane and 426 foot pounds for the dual plane so you can see in that area from 3 000 or 3200 all the way up to almost 5000 the dual plane was definitely better and it would feel more responsive and you know it had good throttle response and have more torque down low so it'd be a lot more fun to drive around as a daily driver in that rpm range but as we cross over the 5000 rpm range we see that the single plane made a little bit more power but that's the thing it only made a little bit more i mean we're talking about on the single plane it made 423 horsepower so that's a whopping three horsepower gain and there were areas where you know it's again it's only you're here at the 5300 rpm you're talking about 408 versus 404 so it's 4 horsepower so it's almost insignificant now we've seen gains or changes in comparisons between the single plane and the dual plane on the other applications where the difference is much more pronounced but on a mild combination like this where we're making 420 to 425 horsepower um the dual plane obviously is a much better choice on this combination and here's a here's a fairly good indicator and this is something that i look at that tells me that this is a fairly mild combination the fact that we made more torque than horsepower tells us that this is a fairly mild combination if we want if we if we have much more camshaft in it and much more head flow what will happen is we will start to make more peak horsepower than we will peak torque and when you do that and when you go when you take that to the extreme when it's a drag race motor you make a lot more horsepower than you make torque but that's always kind of a good indicator and that shows us that on a combination where you're making more torque than horsepower dual plane intake definitely the way to go on the windsor now let's check out the cleveland our second test motor was actually a 351 cleveland this was a cleveland that i use for a number of tests including a building a reproduction of a boss 1971 boss 351 cleveland also a cobra jet and i use it for a lot of different testing intake manifolds and camshaft and cylinder heads and stuff this was a good little boss motor and i actually wish i had still had it but in this configuration we ran it was a boss or a 351 cleveland it was board 30 over it had a set of forged probe pistons in it with factory uh reconditioned connecting rods and the stock crank it also was equipped with 4v heads now originally these 4v heads were had the non-adjustable valve train in it which we upgraded by putting rocker studs in and guide plates so that we could run an adjustable valve train unit although we wouldn't really need it with we ran a hydraulic flat tap at camshaft and for this test it was a comp extreme energy 284 hydraulic flat tappet and it was a 584 588 lift a 240 246 degree duration split at 110 degree lobe separation angle all the testing was run with a 750 hp carburetor this was actually before the xp stuff i may have been before the xp stuff was even available we compared the edelbrock rpm air gap intake manifold for the 351 versus a parker funnel web for the 351 and this was an interesting test for a number of reasons one the rpm air gap was designed not for the 4v head port size but actually for the edelbrock cleveland head which has a much smaller port kind of in between a two valve and a four valve so we'll call that edelbrock more likely more like a three valve let's say but it was smaller in size so there was a mismatch but luckily the mismatch was going the right way so you had a smaller intake port going feeding a bigger head port so all of it worked out very well and in in the test that i'm not showing you here but we had run it and that video is up also we compared the rpm air gap to the factory dual plane intake manifold and the rpm air gap was up by about between 20 and 25 horsepower over the factory intake manifold so it's definitely a big step up even though it has a port mismatch on a big 4v head now we first ran this with the dual plane combination the the rpm air gap and equipped with that intake manifold our 351 cleveland produced 450 horsepower 450.4 and you can see a nice flat torque curve here with a peak of 411 foot-pounds so do we have one that's higher than that 411 foot-pounds of torque so this combination did very well nice and flat the 4v heads have plenty of airflow they can support a lot more power than this they could support a hundred more horsepower than this so if we had enough cam shaft and everything this uh that combination you know the cylinder heads flow really well as a 4v but here's what happened when we put the funnel web on here and as you can see the funnel web technically did make more power it actually made almost the same power both of them were right at 450 horsepower uh it made a little bit more power past 6500 but everywhere else was down on power the single plane was down on power compared to the dual plane and this sometimes happens i was hoping that with the extra head flow offered by the 4v heads that the single plane would kind of come into its own but on this combination this motor did not like the single plane i've had really good luck with funnel webs i think this might have been the first test that i ran on a 351 with the funnel web we also ran it on another 383 stroker 351 cleveland version but this was the first time i've seen it make less power everywhere usually i've run them a lot on the 302s and 347 windsor style motors and the funnel well on those combinations works very well as a matter of fact it usually is a little bit better than a victor jr single plane is the funnel web works a little better but on this 351 cleveland here are the results the dual plane definitely is the way to go even all the way out past 6 500 rpm you're not really giving up any peak power and all you're doing is gaining a ton of average power because if we look down here at 42 or 4 300 rpm we have 373 foot pounds for the single plane versus 410 or 411 foot pounds for the dual plane so you definitely feel that and with a single plane it would be a lot less responsive and um you know it just wouldn't be snappy and fun driving around as much as a dual plane and since you don't give anything up there's really not much of a there's really not much of a choice between the two on this 351 cleveland let's get to our conclusion okay guys what did we learn from our comparison with the 351 windsor and the 351 cleveland comparing the single plane and dual plane intake manifolds first of all i have to tell you i was a little surprised by the cleveland i mean i figured hey this thing has enough displacement it has enough compression it has a reasonably healthy cam i mean 240 degrees of duration at 50 and plenty of lift it has lots of head flow i thought for sure that that combination if any of them would definitely like the single plane intake manifold but that's why i test so much i mean right off the bat i thought the mild 351 windsor that's definitely going to like the dual plane and the dual plane was really good i mean an rpm air gap is already a good manifold it has a broad range it makes a lot of power so on that combination i sure figured the dual plane was going to be better and it kind of was but on the cleveland i thought hey maybe the dual plane is going to show something especially at the top but it did not end again that's why i test this stuff because sometimes you just never know and i like to be surprised armature holder make sure to like share subscribe ring the bell do all that stuff more testing coming up

Channel: Richard Holdener

Views: 15,103

Rating: 4.9510403 out of 5

Keywords: CLEVELAND, WINDSOR, FORD, SINGLE PLANE, DUAL PLANE, INTAKE

Id: 8vGLUjAVQXI

Length: 13min 31sec (811 seconds)

Published: Fri Jan 15 2021