Ford 351 Cleveland Oiling, The Truth, and More

what's up guys tim halston here with another episode of drag boss garage welcome back my friends i'm glad you're here kind of give you a recap that last video i put up the ford 351 cleveland myths and more that really got people going a lot of dialogue going on both facebook and youtube and i appreciate you guys contributing to my channel and helping the comments go further and education go further it's information that some of us might not know but it's tough to make a blanket statement like i did that the ford 351 cleveland is not a small block and if you look at the identification purposes from ford and the nomenclature that's the name of the block the block was labeled as a 351 cleveland 335 engine series that's what they called it you know they didn't like i said before they didn't call it a small block ford now when i made that statement i didn't say anything about physical attributes of that block in comparison to the 289 the 302 or the 351 because they do share things in common like bell housing or spacing but that's not what i said i just said a simple statement a lot of people necessarily took offense to it but they wanted to state their opinion on why it was not or why it was and that was a purpose to get some dialogue going i want to build this channel i've looked through the stats and it looks like a lot of people are watching these videos but the people that are watching we're not subscribed there's a large majority that aren't subscribed and ask you to go ahead and like these videos push the picture on the pro stock motor and subscribe so i can build this channel we can bring a lot more in-depth cleveland information and drag race information in general and that's what my goal is so i appreciate that i want to give a shout out to andy wood from unity motorsports garage he has a channel on here and he put down a nice summary which if you look you'll see it on here which is the blocks that other manufacturers make and what they classify in regards to cubic inch for example i think he said the amc is the same block from a small cubic inch displacement to their larger displacement you know there's no big block or small block and that's what people are getting caught up with but it also brings to the table a bunch of discussion and that's where the ideas start flowing and that's what we want to do i also want to give a shout out to dave silva thanks dave i appreciate you watching my channel he has a grand national that runs at cleveland in it he sent me this we all like tunnel rams that's for sure so check this out this is a tre competition tunnel ram it's pretty bad looking man look at those intake manifold runners you can see they're quite round there but square here so there's some velocity going on there as it gets smaller now this is for a nine five deck height he told me for chi heads or i think the hc 3 heads i don't know what i'll do but i'm going to send it to scott miller at aluminum i see some of you guys are hooking up with him he makes the intake manifolds look awesome so we'll see what this come back has i think it's going to look stellar and then i don't know what i'm going to do with it but i'll figure something out so i also wanted to throw a shout out to rusty glidden thanks for talking with me we got a lot of stuff coming on with him as soon as i get caught up with everything do me a favor send some prayers his way he has some family issues he needs some help with so prayers for him i also want to throw a shout out to jimmy huff him and i have been talking quite a bit especially with his pro stock because he's an expert at the high port cylinder heads and we've been shooting some ideas back and forth so he's interested in some tnd shaft rocker setups i'd like to get a couple sets one for the track boss and then one for eventually either this or a pro stock build tim kindred also was interested in that so i had talked to tnd before about sponsoring me they said no way they don't sponsor anybody but you know what i'll give them a call back now and see if i can get them to help us out now this video here is going to be about the 351 cleveland oiling system the deficiencies in it and what we can do to make it better and when you have to do that i'm going to break this down into a discussion on the stock oiling system what happens when you put in the main bearing or the cam restrictor plugs that go into the mains that jack rush maybe invented or whoever but moroso sells them now and also tim myers cam bearings his restrictor cam bearings thanks tim meyer track boss performance products i talked to him for probably a couple hours the other day about the oiling system to make sure i understand it because this is a tough thing if you don't get the concept you're going to miss out on why you're doing certain things to restrict oil to certain places the benefits and the risks of not doing that and that's my object with this video just got a couple more shout outs and then we'll get down to the video i want to give a quick one to clarence roy clarence i appreciate the help you've given me he's got that this white mustang you can see it there it's a fox body and that's going to be a cleveland he's thinking about putting a power adder adder on it just like dave silva he's got a that cleveland and the grand national he's going to put turbos on that and see how that runs but clarence hooked me up with a set of these pistons these are ross pop-up pistons for a cleveland they're pretty nice units they're at least 13 to one depending on the other specs of the motor but if you see this block right here this is what we're going to use for the demonstration with the oiling system this is actually my first block my first stroker motor there's a 377 cubic inch cleveland i got from ford performance solutions in california troy bowen was the guy that has that company and so i ran this with ported 4v heads an offset ground forward crankshaft and i think just massage stock rods 377 cubic inches and that at 35.95 was running 1205 with me in it that was with a c6 transmission it wasn't fast enough for me i talked to troy i said hey can we put a roller cab in it he said yes he sent me a roller cam i think the specs were 266 274 689 690 something like that you know 105. but i put that in that motor right off the trailer it was running 1125 1120s and that's when i started building the stroker motors for the cleveland so this does not this block is not filled it has an oil restriction kit in it but that's about it and once you see inside this you're going to see the differences that massaging that oil system is going to help you in the long run so it's going to be a good project block that we can fill on camera to show you how to fill things we can modify the oil system and i got this set of pistons it's 30 over as long as it stays that measurement we can build another 357 cleveland and i got a set of those heads i got from you jimmy huff the c302b heads those are complete why not put that on and see what we can do but like i said i get all these projects i just want to move forward with them and this one here is the the one that's going to be done next we only got about four to six weeks or so now the biggest shout out goes to jason murphy thank you jason murphy for helping me with the 351 cleveland especially all the little tricks that you know because he's from down under in australia he knows a lot about cleveland's and we chat back and forth on messenger and he's the one that suggested i make this video because the issue with the oiling system is not everybody's on the same page we're all at different learning levels we're all at different knowledge bases and what i'm trying to do is bring everybody together so we're all on the same page and we can understand and talk the same talk and you can get the same benefits that i do to get your combination to the max effort so what we'll do is talk about the oiling system i got a diagram that i got off the internet and i'll put that up and then you can kind of follow along and i'll try to show you the block at the same time hopefully this works out because if you can see both at the same time it makes a big difference on understanding the flow pattern now the example i'm going to use is a windsor block because it's a ford motor and it has priority oiling compared to the cleveland being a non-priority oiling system and what that means is this and this is important concept to grab priority main oiling is when there is a dedicated oil galley that feeds the main bearings which feed the rods so it's a separate galley then there's also two other galleys that feed the lifters on both sides now that's a priority system the cleveland does not have a priority system they did that when i read for cost consciousness to try to cut the cost down with doing the drilling of the galleys so they try to do everything with just basically one galley which is the right side that feeds everything the left side kind of has another send off from the fifth main but that right side is is key it's crucial and when you see this diagram it'll all play out and you'll understand what i'm saying but that's the difference on a cleveland they try to oil both the main bearings and the rods and send oil to the cam bearings all from the same pathway and it's just it can't keep up after seven grand sixty five hundred seven grand that's when it starts to tax it and struggle now i will tell you that jason murphy told me he's got buddies that run just the auxiliary line that comes from here feeds back here to the sending unit you've seen that line on there now i said in the last video i'll never ever ran that i'll never run that but you know what after i saw this oil system and talked over with jason and tim meyer and i got a better understanding i might do that and you'll see why because that's the thing you can't always be so hard fast that you're you're never going to change you're never going to flex you're never going to learn and develop because that's going to put you behind now let's check out the oiling system so there's my oil diagram and my interpretation of it now the oil pump sucking up that oil pushing it through that part of the block and then going into the oil filter just like this now you saw where the oil is going up through this this main galley is short it's a 90 degree angle and that's what i'm trying to show you look here and you'll see exactly what i'm talking about on the actual block now you can see right here because this is really short that 90 degree bend where that oil has to twist you need to get in there and clean that out with some type of burr now the things we're not going to talk about are bearing clearances what type of oil and the pump whether it's a standard volume or high volume those are actually for another talk because there's too much variability with that we want i want to just stick to the basics so now that we know that all the oil goes up to this so we're going to call this plug the 585 just for a way to identify it the origin basically of where the oil comes from the pump all these little pieces of tape that i have on here show the oil system larger than 500 000 half inch that includes this big line here the main feed to the right-sided lifter galley the left-sided lifter galley all the rest these diagonals here are 313 thousands in diameter whereas the cam bearings reach the path to the cam bearing these are all 250 thousands quarter inch so here's the oil path and this is the key when that oil comes up here the first part of it goes up to the first cam bearing that's what these guys represent the first can bearing so the oil splits and goes up to there it also goes down to the main bearing oils that then goes up to the right-sided lifter galley and that's what oils first this right-sided lifter galley this is the key with the cleveland this is why they have an issue because they're trying to oil from one galley they're trying to oil the mains the cams and the rest of the system and then feed it over from the rear main to the left side just for identification purposes the right side of the car when you're is always from when you're sitting in the seat the right side of the passenger side the left side's the drivers and that's how you look at it with these gabbies so actually this is left side is kind of put here but i can't draw in 3d so this is kind of coming this way and you'll see that when i show you right now what i'm talking about the filter obviously you know screws onto here okay the oil pump sucking that oil up to here pushing in the filter and pushing it back through here and going through the rest of the galleys that area which you saw is almost a 90 degree bend has a lot of torturous areas and that needs to be cleaned out chamfered and radiused and that's an important factor you should be thinking about in any cleveland there's the hole here at the bottom of the block and that's where the oil pump bolts on so let's bring that oil up through there to through that port now here's this this is a 585 plug and that i call that the 585 because it's easy to identify and hopefully when i say that you know right where we are when we're talking the schematic and that feeds through here through the main part of the journal it's coming through here now it splits and it's feeding this cam bearing here and also feeding the main bearing here you can see the hole here and here now that big area right there that's going all the way up to the right side of galley and you can see it right here so now that the oil is coming down here to the main it's going to go back up this way and feed the right side of the oil galley that's the key thing with a cleveland look at what it's trying to do once it goes down this galley these are the diagonals that you'll see in the main journals there will be two holes in each one except for the rear each hole one goes to the cam bearing and then one comes down here and feeds the main bearing so the oil is kind of coming like this down this diagonal feed the main then up to feed the cam same thing here down this diagonal feeds the main then up to feed the can bearings all the way down until you get to the fifth rear main it still comes down the galley comes here and feeds this like it does here and some still goes to the cam but then it has to go to the left side of the galley which i showed you that plug all the way up here and feed the whole left side of the lifter galleys in lifter bores so really the cleveland oiling system consists of lots of leaks and to improve it you have to control the leaks and that's what we do with restrictors and that's what i'm trying to impress upon you so i'll show you a picture of the galley there's not much to see is it worth it to try to put some kind of burr to clean it out look at it right now so as you're looking at this video you can see the oil galley coming down which is just a long straight galley not much in there now there might be a couple areas you could clean up really it's got to find the right tool that you could go in there and clean it up with and deburr it or smooth it out the auxiliary oil line that we talked about adapts right here with a line going all the way back to here when i look at that i was never into it until i started looking at the oil diagram and depth and then i realized what you're doing is you might be taking a little bit of flow from here but you're adding it here which is going to put more oil all the way down here to the mains and that's what you want to do and it also helps the left side galley so it looks like it's a win-win situation that's something i want to try out on that block that we're going to use now let's look at the engine and see what it looks like and compare it i'd already showed you these guys here that plug here which is a big half inch and the 250 thousandths cam feed galley here's where the oil pump bolts on right here these two bolts and that's the main galley that goes to the filter this definitely needs to be reworked the gasket that you use some people use it some people don't i always do you could actually trim it out a little bit bigger just don't go past that gasket and this block was six of 1970 stamped on there so looking at this this is the rear main it has three different galleys the middle one goes to the cam bearings just like all of them and then when you look at this side here that's going to the right side passenger oil galley because it blocks upside down and you think about rotating it and this goes to the left side and that's where the restrictors go they go right in here you can see that they've been tapped and there's one plug here that one was taken out and the rest have been taken out but you don't restrict the first one in the moroso kit and the last one goes to decrease flow to the left side oil galley thereby keeping the oil down in these mains and that's how the cam restrictor kit is put in and they're screwed into the oil galley that feeds the cam in two three four and then what goes to the left side lifter galley that's where those restrictors go they don't go in number one now you could put one there but i think the reason they don't is because you think about it to get to this you can't put it in the main because when this oil is coming through here to the 585 it's automatically going up to the cam it's not going to do any good down here if you're going to put a oil restrictor in you need to go past the 585 and put it up here that restricts the flow to that number one cam bearing now here's what tim myers system does his restrictor cam bearings and if you've seen his cam bearings they're a round bearing like any other cam bearing but they have a hole on the outside of the bearing which goes against the cam journal so they're put into this area right here all five of them because what those can bearings do those cam bearings move the clock position from six o'clock which is straight up and down to three to four o'clock off to the side and so what happens is when that oil comes up to oil the can bearing now remember oil restrictors reduce oil to the can bearings not the lifters that oil hits the bearing can't go any further so it goes and follows that channel and that's what slows it down or restricts the flow to the cam bearings by keeping it slow down the flow slowed down so it keeps concentrated volume at the main bearings that's the theory behind it now with tim's system what you do this is a pretty big hole remember i said it was 500. thousands so that big hole speed in the first main and you also have what was feeding from the 585 two different orifices two different galleys so with tim's kit what he does is he plugs that big half inch hole and puts a pipe plug in there obviously it's underneath the bearing so the bearing sits flush and doesn't affect that and then that hole which we said was 250 thousands he drills it out to 5 16. that way it kind of makes a little bit more flow to that one bearing and you're only having one area flow to that first main so here again are the two areas that we're talking about here's the big half inch hole and here's the cam bearing feed that galley which is 250 thousands so what tim's doing is plugging this because you're gonna have flow to the main from this you can see the little areas that are feeding it look how big that hole is that's a head bowl right down in it that thing's moving a lot of oil and you can get by with less and just sustain it with this being a little bit bigger diagram that he supplied and you can see the picture of the holes that you're plugging and drilling but the path of the oil is in red the stock ford oil's coming up here it's going down and feeding the mains and the cam journal it's going up to the right sided galley and that's what feeds the whole part of the engine that we showed you here and that's what we're trying to do is keep that oil restricted down to the mains what else can you do for the oiling system well we talked about all the galleys now there's the left side i didn't put the camera down there it looks like the right side there might be some areas to clean up that i can't say for sure until you look at your own situation and see what kind of tool you could use to get in there but those tricks or tips like i'm saying it's important to go through everywhere you can and see and look for those radiuses there's a couple spots on the drain back holes that need to be opened up check this out so here's a couple areas that need to be paid attention to and you can see this right here that's a drain back and it comes down in front by the time and chain area but when you put on the head gasket in the head it blocks off all this area is blocked off it needs to be opened up and radiused they're all off a little bit and that's something you should check and make sure that it's painting on yours and try to get the best flow you can to return the oil back and those holes come down here they're up in this area and there's one over here back here make sure you clean those out and raise them this area here where the setting unit goes and if you use the axillary line it bolts in back here plums in back here but if you look down here and i'll show you a picture with a camera going down in it it's pretty narrow down there that could probably benefit from cleaning it up and here's the back the cam bearing plug back here these are the two galleys back here when you look at one with a priority oiling a lot of times they have three of them and one of them is dedicated to the mains which also lubes the right guys right guys so you saw the back of the block which showed the back of the rear oil galleys i wanted to clarify a few things first of all with a priority oiling system it doesn't always have to be a dedicated oil galley to the mains and the rods but it needs to oil them the difference between the priority and non-priority is the fact that you're oiling the mains which oil the rods first whereas in the non-priority like the cleveland you're trying to oil everything at once now one thing that jason murphy and mentioned to me and also tim meyer is that when you go down these subsequent lines of lubrication you're losing the pressure is dropping so it may be 80 to 100 pounds leaving the pump here but by the time you get back here it may be 60 maybe 58. this side always suffers a little bit and those are things to take in consideration now i kind of was a little hard on the cleveland's oiling system because in reality it's not that bad you know 65 to 7 grand you probably have no issues you know and some people like i said jason murphy said that his buddy was running 7 700 so it's important to fix the oiling system or make it the best you can right from the get-go now some people i'll mention on here i've never had any oiling problems i don't do any of that stuff and that's that's where the experience comes into play i will tell you this i talked to darren morgan today we were talking about this here's what he said he said that that's a win-win situation any time that you can take any of the galleys and smooth them out to a better transition you're going to pick up horsepower he said you can pick up three to five horsepower just because that oil pump is not having to work so hard no pumping losses there now now the what he told me is that somewhere between 10 to 15 loss with a 90 degree turn now when i show you this because i wanted to point out a couple things i didn't say prior to this i may have alluded to it but i want to make sure that you understand it's tough to get into some of these oil galleys to smooth them out but i'll tell you the biggest ones are easy to get to and i'm going to show you the filter housing boss you unscrew that it's a direct 90 degree bend you radius that you're going to pick up a lot of oil right from the get-go the same with tim myers adapter that you can put on you know you can see that that's huge i'm going to do that i think i'm going to put it on this motor and see what we can do when you use that let me show you i i'd shown you earlier in the video but you can see the two differences between that hole when you take this off you'll see i'll show you on the camera how torturous it is the same thing with that 585 now one thing i want to clarify here because i i didn't mention it directly but it goes like this that oil filter is pushing oil through that passage now it doesn't go directly to here it does empty into that 585 and i'll show you with what it looks like and i'll tell you that is also a sharp turn you grind all those out of there like i showed you where the oil pump bolts to the block if you saw that picture you grind all that smooth all that out of there it's a win-win situation now like i said before when i see where that axillary line is pumping right into here an extra who knows how much pressure anything is better than nothing back here because you're supplementing the mains so that's something i overlooked and i never paid attention to it so i think that's a good idea a win-win situation like i said now a couple other things that i want to mention the oil filter if you're using a stock fl-1a that's a 20 micron filter and that uses that adapter you know it's a it's a bipe it's a bypass filter whereas if you're using this use a 51 268 wix filter that's not a bypass does have 25 microns filtering capability i hopefully you have a better understanding i do want to throw this out there one of the best ways to restrict the oil is use the lifter bore bushings which replace go right to the bore then you machine them to fit the clearance between the lifter now the issue with that is you're only having a 30 to 60 000 hole in that bushing to oil the lifter and that's it now if you think about the oil passage here's a picture here that bushing cuts off some of the circulation through that galley but it's round and that lifter's straight so the oil is still flowing past that galley but that's how it slows it down and restricts it also is by cutting those lifters out of that equation that big loss of pressure on those galleys where their lifter goes in so like i said these little things are what's going to make your cleveland live a lot longer and have a lot better oil supply just to i'll show you just the 10 minutes it would take you to probably grind that out in some of those areas especially if you saw the 585 where i showed the picture where it's going up if you can get in there and transition some of those sharp edges it's going to make all the difference in the world check this out let me show you a little closer up detail the stuff that i think you guys can do real easy without getting into a lot of grinding and trying to find special bits but i've seen people go like crazy to try to remove these you can see that chisel they try to pound it out of there to get it loose i found basically putting on two nuts like a lock nut and loosening that up works for me what i used was it feels like dash eight bulkhead connector nut and then the same thing with a just a regular cap rather than trying to force it out of there but i look at this block and i can tell you there's a lot of areas of improvement and i can't wait to do it kind of just lock it on there [Music] and once you break it loose it comes off pretty easy but i can find out here's the one out of this block from 1970. now this is what i use just a little borescope master force from menards i'll tell you this things i've seen so many things with this and you can record video with it which is what you're going to see here so let me kind of show you what i got first we're going to go through the oil filter that i just took off the boss that you put the oil filter on and you'll see the big 90 degree here it is right here now if you saw that you could see the areas where you go in behind that filter adapter you could round that all out there and smooth those radiuses now here's the 585 plug we talked about i'll give you a little more in depth and you can see where i'm talking so there so you saw me now going through the bottom main journal with the big 500 thousands hole up through to the right lifter side galley you can see me pushing the wire up there all those areas are sharp man you radius all those and you're going to see a big difference in your oil system you might not even need anything i don't know that's it's it's you can't really say that but it's just amazing how many strictures there are and how many areas that could be massaged and that you'll benefit from taking the time and smoothing out all those areas hopefully you got something out of this video i appreciate guys coming by the drag boss garage there's a lot more to come i'll get that this piston to valve clearance done like i said my kids got a bunny they're not really into coming out and working in the ground i'll get this done which i'm gonna i need that kind of pressure the next four to six weeks uh my fuel system should be here all that ptf hose from orembrothers appreciate it guys in the next week we'll film that episode of putting the fuel system back together we'll get the episode finished on the wheels that we put the 5 8 studs in let my wife finish putting that fuel pump together so we got a lot of videos to pump out stay safe appreciate you tuning in drag boss garage because i hear cleveland's make power you

Channel: DragBoss

Views: 17,866

Rating: 4.9336281 out of 5

Keywords: dragboss, ford 408 cleveland, stroker cleveland, stroker ford, trackboss, 752 hp cleveland, mercury cougar, 69 cougar, wheel stands, ford stroker engine, aluminum trackboss, ford drag racers, drag racing, ford 351 cleveland, Darin Morgan, quick performance, jon kaase, scott cook, Smith BrothersPushrods, molnar technologies, pro systems carbs, Ford 351 Cleveand, Bob Glidden, Dyno Don Nicholson, Jack Roush, Gapp and Roush, trick and manswetto

Id: fBSeHpaT3Rw

Length: 33min 21sec (2001 seconds)

Published: Fri Jan 29 2021