The New Normal: Brené Brown

you and I are talking and you say to me hey Brunei I know you really well and I think I know your heart and what you just said felt really hurtful and racist if you said that to me the first thing I experienced is shame but but let me say this for everybody people in the back especially feeling shame when we're held accountable for racism is not the same thing as being shamed for being a racist ladies and gentlemen welcome again to ooh the new normal I'm Kay right you're Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force and let me tell you about our guest today dr. brené Brown she's a research professor at the University of Houston visiting professor at the University of Texas she spent last two decades studying courage vulnerability chain and empathy she's the author of five County five number one New York Times bestseller to include her most recent one dare to lead dr. Brown welcome mornin good morning Renee please Renee all right yeah so hey thanks again for joining us so many of our Airmen will be so excited to see you here they're such big we are such big fans of yours so again we just want to say thank you for the great work that you've been doing in this in this space hey oh go ahead I'm sorry no then say thank you and it's been an honor to be able to work with the US Air Force across a lot of different areas I'm a big fan so it's mutual yeah thank you interesting last couple of months and certainly an interesting last couple of weeks intrigue on what concerns you more Kovan 19 or the race issues that we're dealing with as a country I'm trying for sure the race issues I think they are even from a public health lens a much greater threat to our physical well-being our emotional and mental well-being then Kovac and I think one of the things that anytime there's a crisis even if it's like let's just take a let's take a family or a unit anytime there's a crisis the cracks and fault lines of that family or that unit are brought to light so let's say you have a health issue and a family if you've got a marriage that's almost crumbling there's the stress on that starts to happen if you've got a kid and stress that that unfolds so I think what COBIT has done is it has made clear the even before even before the the protest started it made it made very clear the racial disparities in this country you know when Co had started I remember people saying this is this is the big equalizer you know like kovat is covetous does not discriminate and I've ever thinking to myself no it Cova doesn't discriminate but Americans discriminate and so we're gonna find very quickly that the people most susceptible are the people who have been the most susceptible to whose lives are most impacted systemically by the white supremacy and I think that's exactly what we saw yeah many people cringe when they hear that word white supremacy white privilege what why is it so difficult for people specifically white people to talk about racism it's interesting because for us because of cognitive dissonance because just like black people are not a monolith or one group white people are not one group but I think for a lot of us who believe ourselves to be not racist we don't understand we don't understand that it's in our bones we don't understand that it's the fabric of its it's everything we saw on television growing up every message we received I just did an interview with Abram Kendi who is a scholar who studies anti racism and he has this incredible metaphor he said from the day you're born in this country race racism and racist ideas are just pouring down on your head and you're just sopping wet with them but the nature of racism is it it tells you you're not even wet so when someone hands you an umbrella and says hey you're actually soaking with these ideas here's an umbrella the best thing to do is say thank you for the umbrella I had no idea but we feel cognitive dissidence cognitive dissonance is how can I be thinking or feeling something embedded in me that is unjust and unkind when I consider myself a kind and just person and that feeling you know how you say I'm privileged you have no idea what I'm come from you know you have no idea what I've been up against I have no privileged but privilege doesn't mean that you didn't work your ass off mm-hmm privilege doesn't mean that it wasn't hard for you white privilege means you didn't have to work harder and you it wasn't hard for you because you were white that doesn't mean you didn't work hard I mean no one would ever be able to take away from me the fact that I worked my way to college that I you know that these things were you know but that's not what that is so I think reason the reason people have a hard reaction to it is we we have a hard time reconciling that we could be promoting racist systems but still be good people and that's just that's true yeah yeah no that makes perfect sense one of the one of the things that we've general Goldfein and myself have encouraged people to do since since the george florida incident and we kind of simultaneous with our own race race issue in the airforce with some disparity and justice for young and one of the things that we've encouraged people to do is commanders and leaders is to hey just talk just just talk to people and have open and honest conversations and they come back and say we I don't know how to talk about I don't know you know what to do so from an action standpoint what would you encourage them because some people are saying hey we need training and but these discussions need to happen now what what advice would you give to them for for talking about race racism specifically with the black Airmen that may be in their formations I you know what it's really interesting because it's an interesting time for you to ask this because we we have these certified air to lead and and daringly facilitators and we just put we said we said we have to start having these conversations and a lot of people are like and so here's what's interesting in order to have these conversations you don't need to be a subject matter expert so so when we talk about training we talk about subject matter expertise and then facilitation skills we we don't need to be subject matter experts but we do need to be committed facilitators of the conversation which means hold space for multiple experiences invite the conversation in be vulnerable be a learner not a knower and this is not this is not easy in the Air Force because with leadership becomes an idea sometimes in the military that I have to be the network that what makes me a leader is having the answers you know I'm a leader in the Air Force because I can hold space for a hard conversation but that's not part of the basic training you know fake but I do think you do need to offer these folks you're gonna have the conversations subject matter expertise that and shared so let's all what we'd like for all of our commanders to do is sit down for an hour and listen to this podcast or listen to this person talk and then all you need to do is facilitate a conversation and make sure people feel safe speaking they should be able to do that as their job as a leader but I think we have to be careful saying hey we got a lot of hard race stuff going on go have a conversation because they don't have the subject matter expertise and they could end up hurting people especially people of color yeah that makes sense speaking of subject matter expertise so I don't think anyone would argue that you're this you've met an expert on vulnerability on Shane and it it it reminds to me it kind of came to me that in order for people to have these um uncomfortable conversations I think they have to enter into a space where they could potentially be vulnerable because typically as leaders as commanders and command teams you know we're in the position where we know it all we like to control it all but but here's an area where I think we have to be okay with a little bit of vulnerability right no you gotta be okay with a whole bunch of vulnerability like these are the most these are the most vulnerable of vulnerable conversations so two things that happen so you said vulnerability in shame one you can't brave leaders the bravest leaders are never quiet about hard things and so that means brave leaders have to be open to being vulnerable right the second thing is when you asked like why do people cringe when they hear what specifically let's just keep it frank right what a white people cringe when they hear the term white privilege or white supremacy that's a shame issue because uh you and I are talking and you say to me hey Brunei I know you really well and I think I know your heart and what you just said felt really hurtful and racist if you said that to me the first thing I experienced is shame but but let me say this for everybody people in the back especially feeling shame when we're held accountable for racism is not the same thing as being shamed for being a racist my yeah if I feel shame because you hold me accountable I need to work through that on my own because what ends up happening is okay let's just play it out so let's say let's say I say something to you and you come back and say man Brene that feels kind of racist why don't you say that to me man Bernadette that feels kind of racist no I'm totally not a racist I'm a really good person I have a lot of black friends I love black music and I you know like no matter like I'm not a racist I'm I you know me man like I'm a good person and so what happens there I wish I could see him on this podcast because he's laughing really hard he's doing the quiet really hard is that what happens or not that's exactly what happens yet okay so what that is I feel shame and I'm double downing yeah I'm doubling down on hey I'm a good person but the thing is your niceness and your kindness doesn't make you an anti-racist so when we're in these hard conversations well let me tell you something I have taught race class and gender for twenty years I am still called out on my privileged spot I am still called out when I say things that are like man you were really in your whiteness right now that's that the great but that's a white girl's theory right there because that is not my experience in those moments I have to put my this is what this is what I'll share my private mantra with you my private mantra to stay out of shame is I am NOT here to be right I am here to get it right I am NOT here to be right I am here to get it right and so when I'm held account because there is two things there one again I learned from Abram can be in Austin chanting Braun two great resources for your leaders to play podcasts or just clips and like let's just talk about this Bob in a clip as a group you're either racist or anti-racist there is no middle ground as now I don't know about black lives matter than that stuff but I know I'm not racist no you're either anti-racist or racist that's it and if you're like me you grew up with messages systems any one of the things it's been real for me is I could never say look I don't believe you about your name keeping you out of getting jobs I can't I can't say that because my name is Bernie Brown and so I can't tell you the number of interviews I've gotten to you where people go you're white and I go yeah and they're like oh my god we're kind of relieved cuz we weren't sure and I'm like oh you're an okay so no need to do the interview so that stuff is real that's revealed you know you've got a guy a bird watcher in New York in Central Park and then a white woman who's not afraid of him at all this tall black man yeah strapped with guns no strapped with binoculars and bird-watching equipment and he you know she's not afraid of him at all he says please put your dog on a leash which is the law in Central Park and it scares the birds and he's birding and she said leave me alone and not a scared voice leave me alone or I'll call the police on you and he's like call the police for what you're not supposed to have your dog off the leash and then the minute she gets on the phone she does the performative quiver there's there's a black man and he's threatening what white people don't I think understand is that there is a 10 second walk from that experience - George Floyd there's no space in between that behavior and what happened to George Floyd hmm it's people using whiteness to exert power it's people controlling and patrolling blackness at every level mm-hmm and so Austin Channing Braun I mean these are two podcasts I just have done in the last two weeks they would be a great resource for people to talk about just because it would give them a common language to say I didn't understand this part I disagree with this part that Austin Chaney Brown says that the true at the heart of anti-racism work it's just becoming a better human to other humans yeah you know I saw that so I was I was checking you actually started following both of them based on your Instagram and I saw when she said that and that's that's I was always pleasantly pleased because there's been a bit of a mantra of mine in trying to solve some of the air force's problems they say sometimes we've just got to be better human beings and so I'm glad to see that it applies to that as well yeah when someone says to you hey I want to give you some feedback that's gonna let you be a better human being the answer to that is not oh I have a black friend the answer to that is thank you I'll take it yeah hey does this feel different to you so we you know we've been here before right Ron King we've had protests and and and these uprisings does this does this one feel different to you does it feel like we might make some real progress this time now you know you know I want to believe that it does feel different what are the markers that I have about difference is this time is I guess Brady in the wilderness that book came out and maybe 2017 I don't remember but in that book I write about my support for black lives matter and it was very it was super controversial a lot of readers were like no it were out and then people actually walked out of my book tour talks some of them did when I talked about supporting cap in the NFL company supporting black lives matter and now the same people that were like why did you do that in that book people that I know have black lives matter signs in their front yard and so like and so and I I just do think you know there's there's there's a lot has been done around this from comedy routines to activism but it black lives matter is a pretty low bar like like you know but I'm just saying the same matter like wait the black lives are glorious dignified holy wonderful you know so I think it's in some ways there's definitely a critical mass of mainstream need of mainstream America that gets it now is it gonna be enough to propel people to show up and vote because the hearts changing hearts and minds is great but it has nothing to do with making black lives safer in my mind yeah so it feels differently I like that there's been some changes you know the Confederate flag from military bases from NASCAR and some of those other things but but I don't think the the real change occurs when when there's a significant change and we root out some of the racism and the economic systems and in the housing and in public schools and then that's right that's because that's the real driver behind a lot of this so I I am optimal and I feel good about where we are and I feel good about the amount of people that are trying much trying much harder to empathize and understand what's going on in this country but we really need is and a lot of that like you mentioned it starts at the ballot but we really need to in order to see significant change economic systems banking schools those are the things that will really change the nature of racism in this in this country yeah criminal justice system like like yeah it's got there's gotta be and you know what I would what I try to tell my what I told my kids and what Steve and I and my husband I talk about all the time in my team as I lead 30 people is make no mistake that we're in a fight you know we're in a fight it's we growing up I remember reading about moments in history whether it was how we treated Native Americans or the Jewish genocide of the Holocaust or and I remember thinking how did people let that happen and we are the people right now and it is happening and we are in the middle of history right now like it is we are in a fight for the dignity of human beings and not just black human beings but our own you know we're actually in two fights because even though the last two weeks have been pushed to the forefront what we still have in the background is phobic nice things and these these cases that are in many places increasing I think increasing in most places except ironically Newton New York how how had you've been dealing with kovat you know how has this changed your battle rhythm and and how you operate and the things that you've been doing what impact has Kogan 19 add on on you a huge I mean she just absolutely you know it's changed everything has changed the way we work I mean we in in the first week of Kovac of it we lost eighty percent of our revenue sources as a company for the year because you know I speak I do book tight or I do those kind of things so there was none of that I'm married to a physician so you know it's it's it's 360 impact you know and and we got my sisters and I and my husband got my mom out of us out of her system living facility like an hour before it shut down so she was quarantined with us for 12 weeks and so I think that you know it's interesting I think about the Air Force a lot when I think about Kovac I'll tell you I yeah I do I think about the military in general but I thought just because I've done so much work with the Air Force over the last couple of years and that's kind of my frame of reference right now my friends at West Point it would be like excuse me but it's really kind of my frame were pressed for reference but readiness like you don't get the Air Force ready when there's the problem you know and and the problem the definition of the problem decreases based on readiness and so I there's anything that I think I hope we've learned is that pandemic readiness this was not a surprise to the people who dedicated their careers to studying this this is not a subpoena this is not a surprise and this is not a surprise right our lack of readiness for this is nothing it's not anything we would accept from the military it's nothing really would expect from education and so everything I had learned that whether we want to be connected to the globe or not no matter where you fall on that political debate about globalization what happens in China matters here what goes down in you know Sydney Australia affects us like we are an ER you know in extremely connected to each other and this is not going to be the last pandemic yeah well I saw in any of you you recently did where you talked about the challenges of you and Stephen being being home together yeah that's one of the challenges that some of our Airmen are faced now we are starting to get back to somewhat normalcy but we still have how have you dealt with being home together still trying to get work done potentially home schooling actually what advice would you have for folks who might have lacked the readiness who might not have been prepared for this type of pandemic and how to just maintain a normal life in this what we considered in new normal well I have we have this system in our family that we see that I have this system because we bent it we just celebrated our 26th wedding anniversary together for 33 years and I will say the pandemic has been you know in that wall and that kind of stretch there are hard hard seasons there are great seasons there are season you know there's every kind of season you can imagine this has been a hard season because we're both under so much stress but we have this this interesting system and I and I would really recommend it for your folks because it helps so before Co bed probably ten years ago I would come home from traveling and Steve was here holding down you know the fort and I'd open the back door and come in he's like oh my god I'm glad you're here cuz I'm exhausted you know and I'm like I don't know I've been out working like I'm glad I'm going to sleep because know I'm going to sleep so we started this thing where I would come home and say well look dude I had 20% right now I'm on 20 he's like well you know I got your back i-i'll cover you and I'll come up with baby or he'll come home and he'll say I've got 10 I'm like I'll cover you I got 90 because people say that a good relationships 50/50 and that's total BS it's never 5050 a good relationship is when they can cover your chin with their 90 and expect the same roommate you know but what we had what we saw in the pandemic is I would say look see look I've got 10 right now and he's like dude I got 10 - and like well what are we get that we have a gapping 80% as functioning parents and adults so we just came up with like rules of engagement when we could not come up with a hundred percent which is let stuff slide forgive more often be kind don't talk about each other's families you know like I mean like we had like jest rules of engagement when we could not come up with 100 and the problem is the system was great but even that system cracked under the pandemic because you can't ride on on 10/10 for very long but we did and it was just one of those things where we would get to a place where like I'm gonna watch TV upstairs I need you to watch TV downstairs then I'm gonna sleep upstairs and I need you to sleep downstairs like just just reality check the expectations like it was funny because when I would I did some work on an Air Force Base for y'all I guess last year before last and I was I just remember because whatever whenever it was everybody had a mustache look terrible yes and there was a retired Air Force guy on the flight behind us and he he kept saying he kept saying something that I picked up because he kept saying on time on target on time on target and I remember like ovid probably about a month ago and then when I got home I started saying that Mike come on kids let's go we need to be on time on target and see like you're not going to work with the air force anymore because I you come home saying the craziest stuff because even I picked up something where I was cleaning at the kitchen and I was like hey if you're not making its unique it seems like what and I was like oh sorry like actually if you ain't mo but it's kind of yeah I don't think that's what these guys were saying oh really but I just sat down and we just said he said you know you're saying on time on target as like a nigga's nothing's gonna be on time and that's gonna be on target in our house in our jobs we have to do that but here nothing's gonna be as precise as it is when we're not in this so we just had to let stuff go yeah and you you also mentioned during that that that time that you said it's okay to feel to feel whether it's grief or what have you because I think you were referring to folks feeling guilty about filling grief or feeling shame or feeling bad or whatnot can you expound a little bit on your thoughts about for those of us who are going through this and trying to meet the challenges and working from home and dealing with this new normal that is okay to feel feel what what should we be feeling the point you can feel anything you want and I think one of the things that people do do is they say things like how can I feel bad for my circumstance when there are people dying of kovat in the hospital how can I feel bad when you know and I call it comparative suffering and it's this idea that we're not allowed to feel grief or disappointment or fear because people but worse than us and comparative suffering is rampant in the military you know like how can how can I wake up today and feel down and sad grieving for my life before Kovac it's not like I'm trying to touch a dying person through that you know through a little Plexiglas because you know people but the thing is this idea that we can't all own our feelings it's super dangerous and let me tell you let me explain why so Ellen my daughter is I have a 20 year old she's turned 21 yesterday the 21 year old and a soon-to-be 15 year old my eighth grade my eighth grade son is really sad because they're not gonna have his eighth grade party and in his eighth grade graduation to high school they're not gonna do he's a fleet they're not gonna have that sports camp this summer and you know he's like I'm really sad I'm so frustrated but I know a mom I'm sorry I know people have a lot worse than us you know and like hey it's okay to feel those things and also keep in mind that people are having a hard time because when we feel shame about the emotions that we feel like we we don't we we have it we don't have it hard enough to feel grief shame kills empathy so when we feel shame about our emotions it actually kills our ability to feel empathy for other people and so it's okay to be disappointed it's okay to let me tell you something like I did this another podcast that I did with David Kessler on grief he said every single one of us right now is mourning the death of normal I mean she's your podcast like because things will never be the same again and I think that's true yeah and to grieve that yeah when Ellen Ellen had to leave college I guess in the middle of the semester and come home and she said I'm so sad I miss my life I miss my friends my class is the teacher my work and she's like I feel bad for crying I said grief is - love the fact that you're grieving tells me that you're building a life that you love and are proud of I'm glad you're grieving because if you didn't miss anything I would question what kind of life you adult you know and so we need to feel we need to feel like and give ourselves permission to feel yeah that's that's interesting a grief and sympathy can't Oh a shame and sympathy can't coexist shame it shame and empathy empathy okay yeah like feeling cuz shame is super focused on yourself you're like oh my god I suck I'm terrible what will people think I wish the floor would swallow me up and so shame is super self focused and empathy is other focus okay got it so we got the racism issue we got kovat 19 and then for us as an air force I wonder if you can and can help us and provide some thoughts on suicide and resilience so we still have this even through through kovat we still have Airmen that that are dying by suicide and we've dealt with this you know for man for so many years we've averaged about a hundred suicides a year total total force all of our Airmen civilians Guardsmen reservists but last year we had a significant increase about a thirty around thirty percent increase in the number of airmen that that took their own lives man what what what can or should we be doing I know this is a difficult and challenging question but just off the top of your head what can we be doing differently in terms of suicide suicide prevention building resilience in our sabe yeah I'll be totally upfront that I don't have this is not an area of expertise for me and there are people who have spent as much time studying the things I've studied studying suicide and prevention so I would let them speak to that specifically what I would say is that just as a shame researcher what I know is that we have to create environments that DISA stigmatize mental health issues and I want to be careful because I know sometimes that we should be doing this and you know we should you know I don't know those as well as people who study this but I do know that in environments where mental health which is just emotions are seen as weakness much less mental health issues are seen as weakness those those environments become very susceptible to suicide and so I think what I can what I can contribute to the conversation is we have to stop seeing vulnerability as weakness yeah you know and and that starts with the leadership in the Air Force we have to stop seeing vulnerability as weakness we have to have people like you that people look up to being honest about these conversations being honest about how difficult it is you know we have to see vulnerability and leadership and we have to see leaders creating safe psychologically safe environments for people to come board because you know for commanders and people that one day you know I have all these folks reporting to them and they're dealing with all the sudden domestic violence they're dealing with addiction they're dealing with suicide suicidal thoughts you know and they the messages be strong and be tough but never be vulnerable that's just that's just wrong there is no strong and tough without vulnerability no that's that's actually really really good advice and one of the things that we've been working on as an Air Force is be stigmatizing making it normalizing being vulnerable for commanders by commanders and leaders at all levels by by having us sit down and discuss openly our issues by having us you know openly talk about and admit to seeking out counseling and I think that's a really really good point I want to tell you about when you so I knew who you were someone had passed me your book a couple of maybe three years ago and asked me to read and I thought wow she knows a lot about the Air Force I think you were doing some work at at Barksdale house Hill but let me tell you when you became my hero at the national character leadership symposium two years ago when you spoke and you talk about critics and you you recited what's become one of my favorite speeches at least a portion that we know as the man in the arena tell us about you know how you discovered the man in the arena and how you subsequently because you have a very public life I was I was I was intrigued to find out that you are an introvert but you have this very public life you do a lot of speaking and I'm certain like most of us who live in that space you have a lot of critics tell us about the man in the arena and how you've chosen to deal with your critics so yeah I it's actually a weird story so I I had done this TED talk in Houston a TEDx Houston talk on vulnerability and I didn't realize it was being taped filmed and so I thought it so I was doing an experiment where I was gonna try to be vulnerable while talking about vulnerability and vulnerability is not easy under 15 eration Texan literally our family motto that was lock and load like we have it on staff like and so we I was definitely raised to believe that vulnerability is is weakness and so I did this TED talk I was super vulnerable I shared about going to therapy I shared well it was filmed and when they when they called and said they were gonna put it up on the Ted website I was like no no no that'll be the death of my career now and they're like you know walk top right you told us to be vulnerable you know and so they put it up and it had it got millions of viewers very quickly and it being one of the most watched TED talks in the world like it's just been it's I think it's it's 60 million or something right now it's awful I've never seen it but they tell me so right the way I started getting a lot of comments and a lot we were like yes it was brave it was good or yeah that makes kind of sense that some of them were awful like awful like you know less research more Botox you're what's wrong with the world someone should take her out like just set up that I was not prepared for at all and so one day I just covered myself in a blanket put on my Woody's pajamas and just watch downtown Downton Abbey all day like eight hours of it and at the end of it I was like oh my god I don't want to go back to my life in Houston I just want to stay on this English countryside and pretend like this is not happening because every time I open my computer it's like I'm bombarded and so I got out my laptop and I was googling Downton Abbey and I was like was that like who was president the United States or in Downton Abbey so I put I literally put Theodore roots about 1910 to see if he was president and this speech that he gave and that period of time came up and I was like that's interesting and there was a passage this is back when you remember when Google used to cache I can give you highlighted things well it highlighted this one portion and I read it and it said it's not the critic who counts it's not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of Deeds could have done it better the credit belongs to the person who's actually in the arena whose face is marred with dust and sweat and blood who strives valiantly who airs who comes up short again and again and again and who in the end they know the triumphant the triumph of high achievement at least when when he fails he does so daring greatly and I was like in that moment I just said through things became very clear one that that speech that piece of that speech is everything I've ever known about vulnerability the vulnerability is not winning or losing it's having the courage to show up when you can't control the outcome number two I'm gonna be brave with my life and we just we just cross last year four hundred thousand pieces of data I've never met a single person in my life who is courageous who hasn't had their ass kicked and who has not fallen who doesn't know failure and defeat and I'm gonna be brave with my life and then the third thing was and this has been somewhat controversial but very helpful for me which is if you're not in the arena also getting your ass kicked I'm not interested in your feedback about my work there are too many cheap seats yeah Bravo [Laughter] especially right now with Kovac there's just too many cheap seats with people who will never be brave but just sit back in those cheap seats you know and stuck down there beer and eat their peanuts and hurl you know criticism and advice and judgment will never once stepping in like if I'm gonna take your I'm only gonna take advice and B need that from people who know what it's like to be brave you know it's scary because they're more careful with their feedback man well you certainly are and have been in the arena representing just with the this race issue but with kovat and so many other issues that you know Fame and vulnerability and and all other things so I just want to say thank you on behalf of the United States Air Force and and all of our Airmen I want to say thank you so much for being in the arena or getting your ass kicked and showing us how to be brave and how to do it and I know you have a busy schedule so that's all I have for you today any parting words for our audience yeah I mean first is thank you for having me on thank you for thank you for being a new talking about being in the arena you for having these conversations knowing that they're going to be a mixed bag for people but having them anyway and thank you for being the arena and you know I guess just like you asked is it gonna be different this time I really from outside see the Air Force at the precipice like I see critical mass of courage coming and I hope I hope that happens because you just deserve the good stuff because courage is born in a vulnerability Trust is born of vulnerability but so is love and so is belonging and so is intimacy and so are all the other things that all the people that serve deserve and so I'm here to support and help any way I can but I just think the work you're doing is really brave yeah thank you you you've helped and and supported this morning you can ever imagine so thanks again ladies and gentlemen this has been your new normal kay right and our special guest today was grenade Brown so Thank You Brunei and best of luck to each of you out there as we all cook with our new normal Thanks

Channel: Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force

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Length: 45min 32sec (2732 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 30 2020