Bravery & Authenticity in a Digital World /w Brené Brown | Chase Jarvis LIVE | ChaseJarvis

[Music] the old took the new the new took the old the old took the new the new took the old hello Internet I think this is where we clap welcome to another episode of Chase Davis live I'm Chase RIS your host your guide and wow what a show do we have here today uh once or twice a month I like to get together on this stage or up in Seattle with people who Inspire the hell out of me who drive me crazy in the best way uh and and today's guest is I mean mindblower I feel so lucky to call her my friend and to have her on the stage before that we've had a little contest going for the last week of the people who've been promoting the show I want to say thank you very much for pimping the show and we have given away two gift certific gift certificates to one of our sponsors creative live for gosh 200 bucks I think for pimping the show so thank you very much and the winners of those are Dave prero and Robin McIntyre so email production at where emailing production at Chase dest or something like that try that email production at Chase dest and we'll make sure to get you a couple hundred bucks and thanks again for pimping the show huge shout out to creative live for making this possible borrow lenses is where I get my gear but Today's show is going to rock your world the person that we are talking to um she calls herself a vulnerability expert a researcher a Storyteller I know her as a TED Talk Maniac badass uh someone who's deeply deeply inspired me I call her a life changer a game changer um and she also has three New York Times best sellers in the top 10 right right now one that's crazy I know it's I don't think that's ever happened actually um and we're here to talk about uh her new book about how it affects creativity and uh a lot of the things that are near and dear to us so please if you'd like to participate in the conversation hash CJ live ask questions if you're anywhere in the world you can communicate with this room right here and although we've got 50 people here you can participate in the conversation big round of applause for bne Brown hi I'm so happy how are you please I hope I hope water's good didn't ask you you want know it's perfect awesome hi woo hello it's been a while how long has it been I think it's like a year in change maybe so maybe someone can find out the answer to that and get back to us it feels like a year but a year of living with your material has been a very very powerful year for me personally because daring greatly was a game changer for me and you know that's one of the things that I wanted to open with is only after you sort of read all the bits of work that you've done the books of which again you have three is that Ser like Is that real three books in the top 10 the New York times's best s list is that has that ever happened before I was upstairs and my husband started screaming hat trick hat trick I was like what's happening what does that mean um yeah it was crazy it was really exciting it's so powerful and I've got amazing Community um yeah for real like they're they they move mountains um I feel I consider myself a part of your community so likewise we move mountains right we move mountains um yeah so the work really really made sense to me with this not that it didn't make sense before but it was galvanized like oh my gosh she's systematically knocking down these dominoes um you know basically the first book is like um be vulnerable second one is put yourself out there third one is when you're down here's how to get up but you have a much more eloquent way of talking about it I've heard some of your interviews before so tell us talk about the trilogy and talk about Rising strong what we're talking about today okay well first of all thanks for having me back Awesome everything you're doing is really exciting you are always welcome anytime right there I walked in I was like oh my gosh we're grown up a little bit huh yeah like congratulations it's a big deal and I know a lot of people that you're really changing their lives create a live so congrat thank you very much this can't get back to you I'm getting it's getting awkward let's talk about you for a note you imagine vulnerability me on stage it's not a bad we'll talk about it health professional I could really mess with him right wouldn't that be fun to watch for just a little while we'll talk about me when it gets to the goldplated grit part of this conversation yeah me too okay but back to you please okay so I guess the way I think about it and I don't think it meant to be a Trilogy it was just kind of the organic growing of the research so I think of the gifts of imperfection as be you yep and then daring greatly as be Allin and then Rising strong is get your ass kicked learn something get up and go back in um and so it made sense and there almost felt like an ethical imperative after daring greatly because we just would get thousands of emails or like I dared greatly and she left me or I dared greatly and I got fired or you know and so I thought yeah because the only thing I know for sure about being courageous with your life and you know this as everyone knows this is if you're brave enough often enough you're going to fall and it's so funny because you know I spend the majority of my time now with leaders and I'll say you know if you're brave enough often enough you're going to fall and they're like I'm willing to risk falling I'm like that's not what I'm saying I'm not saying you're going to risk falling I'm saying you're actually guaranteed you're guaranteed you're going to fall if you're going to get hurt um and they're like well I believe if we mitigate the risk I'm like no you can mitigate the risk all the way to the point where you're not being brave anymore yeah right it's so painful to hear but so right yeah yeah I live it I know um you know I've I got a lot of face plant experience um personally and professionally so I think this seemed like the right next thing to do and the the beauty of it is we need recipes we're humans I think life is a big ambiguous thing especially for uh the the a large part of the audience in this room and and that pay attention to what I do in Creative live are creatives and there's a I think it's fair to say that there's sort of an emotional sensibility that people who are creative for a living or classify themselves as such that there's sort of a a vulnerability or Sensitivity I feel like just knowing myself and my peers and we haven't really ever been given the toolkit to get back up and so this book I'm gonna actually maybe get a nice like right right um it's it's just been a tremendous toolkit that I'll go back to over and over again and I would love to in your own words talk about the the what you've done and there's this great line is you're in the arena actually do do you know the the quote by heart the arena quote so this was a big part of Darren greatly and we talked about it in the last time we were on the show can you just give us that quoting because it's awesome it was it's the total Arc of it um came across this quote you a very diff after the Ted Talk went vir um awesome yeah and I was in every like every online outlet you can imagine from the BBC to Al jazer to you know like what is this who what is this Ted Talk and why vulnerability and there were just I made the mistake of reading all the online comments um and against my advice of my therapist and my husband um and in those comments was every single thing I feared and everything that kind of kept me keeping my career kind of small and safe and so I came across this quote that day and it was Theodore Roosevelt it's not the critic who counts um and it just says it's not the critic who counts it's not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of Deeds could have done it better the credit belongs to the person who's actually in the arena whose face is marred with dust and sweat and blood who strives valiantly who airs who comes up short again and again and again and who in the end may know the Triumph of high achievement and who when he fails at least does so daring great and chills yeah I mean and so in that moment um I just knew that I want to live my life in the arena that's who I want to be I want to be brave with my life um and so it was a huge game changer for me too the being in the arena it used to have one connotation because it was reserved for for the people who were selling out Madison Square Gardens and were on television professionally and in the news right and now we're all creators we're allt you know we we we no longer require permission from anyone to be putting our stuff out there we used to require permission from the gallerist or the newspaper or or uh the person who manages Madison Square Garden but we we we no longer have that so again I thought go back to toolkit now that there are so many more of us and it's so so easy to actually be in the arena we we need this toolkit so thank you for writing it first of all well and let me go back and say thank you to you and all the creatives cuz I spent a huge portion for the first time really in my career a huge amount of time interviewing specifically creatives for this work because what's interesting is you have the toolkit tell us about us yes yeah no yeah do you want to learn about you um you have the tools I mean here's what here's the biggest compliment to me if I give a talk or someone watches my TED Talk I get usually what people will say is I already knew everything you said I just had no language for it I had no way to think about it and hold it um creatives have the tools because what I wanted to do going into this research is I ask myself who Rises strong who gets their asses kicked on a regular basis and gets they get back up with more tenacity and courage just in the course of a day that was my question so the very first answer I had creatives um and it was a weird mix it's creatives special forces veteran um people who just you have to rise because it's part of your job and so the thing that I you know when you're creative every day you wake up you walk into the dark every day you you do this with your life and your work and you show us something that you've made and something that you've done and something that's important to you um and it never goes well every time but it's your job to either dismiss the feedback that's just hurtful and not going to be helpful or bring in the feedback that's helpful and to get back up you have to get back up for a living every day every day and so to me what was the craziest thing about creativity and talking to Makers and you know and for me a creative is I don't care whether you're rebuilding an engine or you're a photographer that is so true creativity with the capital c is I mean the wheel is mechanical engineering plus creativity right you know e equal mc² is theoretical science plus creativity so creativity of the capital c is literally the solution to every fundamental human problem so it's not just painters photographers musicians yeah and and I think we talked about this last time you know there's no such thing as creative and not creative beings so true right um and in fact the big joke I I used to be like very anti- creative um and people would say hey do you want to go do this and I'm like oh that's cute no um you go do your you you do your little art I've got a j o and you can Circle back when you want to do some real stuff and then I get into this research and it's like she said that way too many times I'm just like no yeah I do I just said it um and then I get into this research and I'm like oh my God we're all creative and the worst part was unused it was so clear in the data unused creativity creativity that's been disowned is not benign it's powerful and it's painful it's painful it metastasizes and turns into dangerous things and so talking to creatives you y'all have the tools you just do it every day so what I wanted to do is just pluck them out pull them apart look at them and name them what is the process men and women who fall and get back up and are braver having fallen in the service of Courage what do they have in common and it's a three-step process right it is kind of a three-step process I always hate to call it that because it makes it sound like it might be easy it's not a three-step process it's not a three-step process not easy it's there are things that people have in common across the data and so the first is yeah men and so let me back let me let's tell a story okay I love you're a professional I love St yes a story okay so Chase and I leave this interview and we walk out and I'm talking to Kate I'm like thanks so much for having me Chase and he goes and I'm like so I get in my car and I'm going back to my hotel and I'm like oh my God what did that I sucked I must have screwed it up I must have said said something wrong what did I I never like chase you know what I don't even know why I did this like all of a sudden yes yes or no yes or no iar those words for pretended no why because when something hard happens we are neurobiologically wired for one thing in that survival so when something hard happens when you show someone a piece of your work or something or you get a dirty look or someone makes a comment the first thing our brain does is scramble to make sense of it and the brain recognizes the narrative structure of of a story beginning middle and end so the brain wants a story that says here's what's happening but the story has no can have no uncertainty or ambiguity Chase is may be being a jerk he doesn't like you he didn't think you were very smart on the show I know it's a bad oh let me tell you a real story wait yall want to know a real story yeah I don't like the painful part of the big story let me tell you this let me tell you this real story this just happened I spoke at HubSpot last week okay 13,000 people in this Boston Convention Center it's like 10 minutes before I go on and I'm making I look at Twitter and I'm this person sends this tweet out that says why is bernee at HubSpot why is Berne Brown at HubSpot 2015 and he had just tweeted like love Seth Goden love Amy Schumer all these people but why is Bernay Brown and I'm like oh my God why am I at hpot what am I doing here um and then I'm like I start sweating and it's like any know it's a convention center it's like you know ladies you know I'm like oh my God what am I doing and I'm the opening keynote I'm like and then he tweets it again and I'm like oh my God and so I'm like these are marketing people I don't know anything so I start googling on my phone um marketing terms 2015 and wait the first term that comes up is incentivized I'm like I've got to work the I've got to work the word incentivize into this this keynote I'm like what does that mean exactly I don't know but I'm going to say we're going to incentivize you I'm like what is happening and I have a total crisis of confidence like cuz you know shame drives two tapes not good enough and who do you think you are and like who who am I right snaps terrible um and so then all of a sudden I'm like who is it cuz what happens when you get backed into a corner my brain is making up this story you don't belong here I'm like that story is not going to work because I'm going on in 5 seconds I'm like so I'm like okay the best case scenario attack attack attack this guy maybe attack him from the stage maybe use that as my opening you maybe say like John Doe ask what I'm doing here well let me tell y'all you know and then I click on the Tweet to figure out what his name is and I accidentally hit the link in his tweet and it goes to this page that says what is ber Brown doing at HubSpot she's talking vul about vulnerability and that's so important here's her Ted Talk here are her books um could you imagine if I would have gone out there and been like a CRA dear jerk totally no and that's a true story it just happened because this is going to go back to me now it was I I was you were just telling a story a fake story about me and it wasn't really that you were mad at me no okay good no but we need to understand story we need to understand there's a story and you're missing pieces is okay yes because what happens is when something hard happens and we're captured by something difficult our emotions get the first crack at making sense of something a a bad look a hard phone call a a disagreement at work we think that we're rational beings we think that cognition is going to carry us through and make sense of it but it doesn't you know emotions driving thought and behavior are not even in the front seat riding shotgun they're not even in the back seat thought and behavior in the trunk going hey and emotion driving so the first thing we do is we tell ourselves a story that reduces ambiguity about what happened so oh I'm not supposed to be here I'm not good enough to be here oh in my fake story about you I did something that pissed him off I said something wrong I didn't do something right men and women who have the greatest capacity for Rising strong in the moment something happens they hack into that neurobiological process of making up a story they stop and say wait a minute what's actually going on here what is what am I feeling what do I know for sure because what is you know what is a story there's a name in research for a story that has one or two limited data points and we fill in the rest with fear wow it's called a conspiracy a conspiracy is a story with limited data points so here's what I know I know a guy sent a tweet I know I'm getting ready to talk that's all I know so now that I'm ready to ruin his career and use him as a whipping person you know as I talk what is going on why because I'm making up a story to minimize how many of you have ever gotten in a conflict at work and you walk out of the conflict with a whole story made up about what's happening uh put your hands up yo yeah not not rhetorical yo yeah right or your partner says something like Steve the other day was like no I don't think I I'm like I have nothing to wear to your party tonight I I mean I just I'm so stressed out I just got him on this book tour and he's like maybe we'll stay home I'm like do you think I'm not going to look you at the party like are you worried that I'm not going to be rocking out of the party I'll look good at the party we get party he's like no I'm just trying to be helpful like do you not want to go no look if you want to go by the but you want to take somebody else to the party he's like okay what's happening how many of you have ever been in that this where guy is looking like is that is that what's happening is that yes right so how do we in the moment of hard things happening a fall and a fall can be anything and let me tell you for sure a fall can be heartbreak a fall can be failure at work a fall can be a SL a disappointment but the minute something happens emotion gets the first crack at it and so we have to stop in that moment and instead of conspiring or confabulating which is one of my favorite words from the book what is a isn't it a good word what's a confabulation a confabulation is a lie told honestly and so as a social worker we study confabulation when we talk about um traumatic brain injury or we talk about dementia so a confabulation would be Steve's like why don't we just stay home tonight I know you're exhausted you just flew in and I'm like you know what dude whatever and then I go into my room I call K and I'm like you not even going believe Steve doesn't want to take me to the party cuz he thinks I look bad in my dress is that a lie yeah or is it a confab is it a lie told honestly it's what I believe I know that's painful right but it is like but it's a lie right it's not do you see how it gets crazy it get what if I you go there for you go there 100 miles an hour hour transported there instantly right okay so that's the trick you're 100 miles an hour so here was what I almost did at HubSpot I almost looked up at the person coordinating the event and almost sad before I went on stage you know really and truly if you're going to have me at these events or you're G to have speakers at this event you should really make sure that people who work for you around the country are not being hurtful could you imagine if I would have like oh and you're this clo for doing it right I'm not close I got the whole speech cuz cuz what who are you when you get hurt like if something let's talk about you chase oh no I was afraid this was going to happen yeah no so something something hard happens um someone makes a really a really hard hard criticism of something you're doing with your work sure what is the first thing that you do what is your go-to response when something hard happens is to decide if that's valid and I I read the thing and I'm like and I generally i' I've trained myself to not but I I it's a response to my human the cellular level says I'm going to apply that filter to reality and or apply that statement using my filter to reality and my default is that this person probably knows something I don't know and so I actually my human response is to read it and to take it personally and I have trained myself through Reading YouTube comments you guys done that lately it's not pleasant that's not that's not smart that's not but I have trained myself my response now is I go back to the arena I go back to my little list yeah she told me to make a little list yes which is here are the people who give a [ __ ] or that you give a [ __ ] about yes yeah it's so good she's got in her bag so and I'm like okay this person is not on the list of people that I love and I've done this professionally for a long time if you do any great work you're going to have you're going to create naysayers but the the part that I'm sad at and the part that I'm sharing here is that it does kick off a little there's a little conversation that happens even if I'm at the end like okay cool you're still you you got this but I hate that I burn the Cycles thinking about it okay so take let's do this is this is therapy here folks no this is really this is really helpful because I can tell you I can tell you right now when something emotional happens to me you know some of us some of us want to hide and some of us come out swinging and some of us come out people pleasing I'm must I Come Out Swinging got it I would say so if I was given if I was given a b or c it would be like processing um and no I'm I'm still good I got this but let me show you for sure so I'm a swinger okay and it's like I don't even know you fool like yeah so and then I would try and um compensate by doing something more awesome but right improving even more so the thing which is a terrible thing it is a terrible thing because it's exhausting CU then you're like what am I like what am I doing you know now I'm on the stage making fun of somebody putting them down I'm probably getting them fired um and for what because because what because of a tweet and a tweet that was actually incredibly complimentary doing your work yeah and you know yeah so that thing that you do and I know you do this because we've talked about before the thing where you pause and you ask hard questions is exactly what men and women do who rise strong all right yeah no yeah no you they do in those moments they reckon with emotion so the first step of the the first step of rising strong is recognize you've been snagged by emotion and get curious about it that's it but how many of you were raised in families where you were encouraged to get curious about your emotions and talk about them and explore them right versus how many of you were raised in families where you were taught hey suck it up yep push through and get it done so the first thing is really Reckoning with emotion what am I feeling and and what do I need to know more about that is a Hu and so that thing that you say like does this some does someone know something that I don't know do they have information I don't have that's a huge part of the Reckoning we just don't do it so in that minute in the backstage when I was you on my phone I could have just said whoa bernee you're like heart is racing your your teeth are clenched and you're going in for the kill here what do you know about this yeah nothing you know nothing and what if you knew everything who cares who gives a [ __ ] yeah you know there are 13,000 people you're going to spend an hour targeting one guy you don't know and 12,999 are going to walk out of there with their mouth wide open like what just happened to me that was incredible but have you ever watched it have you ever watched someone take down someone because they were hurt yeah oh what does that feel like it's it's gross it's so painful it's so painful look I'm getting sweaty just talking about head spot I'm like really let me tell you when you when you're getting ready to go on and you look at your phone and it says why is she here oh you're like so the first part is to reckon but what do most of us do with emotion instead of Reckoning most of us offload emotion we push it down we numb it we rage um we are much better at inflicting pain than feeling pain much better at causing hurt than handling hurt so the first thing is we have to really reckon with emotion we asked hundreds and hundreds of people and we don't know a lot about emotion we asked hundreds and hundreds of people list every emotion you've ever felt or that you're that you know about that you understand you know what the average number was less than 10 has to be yes three four five three three did you study before you came here no the average person acknowledges that they're familiar with or know or can recognize three emotions or AFF effects in themselves happy sad and pissed off wow so how can we reckon with emotion and recognize it if we don't even know what emotion is we weren't raised with an emotional lexicon you know we weren't raised to understand wow something is going on so true right yeah so we're to to take it back to 30,000 ft just for a second if you're just joining us from somewhere out in the world I'm Chase Jarvis I'm sitting here with bernee brown and we're talking about her new book Rising strong we're taking questions in just a couple minutes at hashtag CJ live on the Facebooks and the twitters you folks on the in studio audience if you I know there's a lot of people taking notes and writing questions not yeah we yeah we we'll we'll get to you in just a second uh but to frame the conversation again right now you're talking about sort of one of the steps towards proc the process process of rising strong right so Reon what was it the Reckoning with emotion re yeah right Reckoning with emotion yeah we just start with the basic premise if you love somebody anybody in your life you're going to get your heartbroken if you're engaged enough in your work in your life you're going to get disappointed and if you're creative enough and Innovative enough you're going to fail so we start from the premise that you're going to fall the question is getting back up first thing reckon with emotion I'm snagged something's going on and what do you look can I ask them question yeah please do so how do you know when you've been snagged by emotion think about it a look or someone gives you a look or you read a comment or someone says something or how do you know you're an emotion Nisha what's what's your answer to that question hey Nisha that's my wife Kate you guys should know each other said hi um so I know I'm snagged by emotion can you stand up me yeah when I'm unable to see any other perspective or there's like an emotion that's crashing around sorry a story that's crashing around the emotion so it's not like the purity of sensation it's like all the sensation and oh my gosh I'm horrible oh my God they're going to see me ah he's an [ __ ] you know whatever the story is that's contracted around so the story is crashing around you and you've lost perspective okay that's per that's exactly right what else what other just think about just get really what is a response yeah yeah I'll give you a m there you go um it's it's a physical experience that is different it's a it's a a rapid change to a different physical experience than where I was before that emotion okay so you heart beating and heart ring or or happy I mean it can be it doesn't necessarily have to be that that gut clench of fear emotions are both right it can it can be uh just like the world looks shinier I feel lighter inside just as much as it can be I feel tighter so there's a physical shift yeah okay so I think what you're describing and what you're describing points to everything we know in the data which is there's a physiological response to emotion so what you're describing some people will break down and say I get tunnel vision I can see only what's happening in front of me I have no you know so we have a physiological response so men and women who have the best capacity for Rising strong know the physiology of emotion so they get tunnel vision something shifts in them um you end up in the pantry and you don't know how you got there but you're forging for carbohydrates you know you right you want to punch a wall um you your heart's racing your ears are burning my armpits tingle um there's a physiolog a physiological response to emotion so then all you need to do is get curious about it you don't have to be like oh okay shame is washing over me I smell it feel small and terrible you just say okay man something's going on what is it that's the whole first step if you can intervene there you can change the course of your story the second part is that first story we make up we have to rumble with that first story so with the HubSpot example what am I doing here I don't belong here I'm not smart enough I don't even understand this what what you know I I I don't belong here I'm not good enough if you so here's let's go back to this example okay you and I walk out I say thanks for the interview and you go H and immediately I make up a story God I screwed up that interview I must have said something bad something must have happened um so let me tell you how that ends the story I make up is that I'm not I did something bad Chase is mad at me maybe I don't even like Chase well yeah we're not friends that it's over that's okay that's all right okay we're done 70% of the men and women who rise the strongest well all of them recognize that first story 70% of them write it down wow they write down down the story why why would you write down the story I have a thing on my phone called sfd I call these stories the shitty first draft Yeah because Ann Lamont has this great book about writing um Bird by bird and she said all good writers start with a shitty first draft don't all good photographers start with some kind of you take a picture and you look at the back of your camera yeah absolutely right so that first story that we make up is super important it tells us everything that we don't know and everything we're afraid of so if you own that story and you put a handle on it by writing it down and look at it then you can ask the three biggest questions of rising strong what story are you making up what's true and what do you really need to know more about so how I would handle this today I think five years ago I would have gone off and said you don't like me I did something wrong I'm not enough um and it could have even turned into a really big [ __ ] show because and then I could have started talking to people we both know saying right M do you think he's a jerk like I you know I mean do you know you all know how that goes right in a split second and before I know it Oprah thinks I'm a jerk not not possible not possible but what I would do now is I would probably sit in my car or I would sit in the dressing room and I would be like what story am I telling what is going on I'd text it myself or write it down and then I would Circle back with you and say hey do you have a sack so let's just rooll play it do you have a second yeah sure's up hey um when we were walking out of the interview yesterday said thanks and everything and you kind of shrugged your shoulders and like rolled your eyes at me and I'm making up that you're pissed off about something is there anything we need to clean up oh my gosh just that you thought I was mad at you for even a second I'm not mad at all I just remembered that I left my phone in my car like we did not practice that but he knows that's the answer because that's the answer 90% of the time like I almost fired somebody I was so frustrated with this person because like two or three me in a row we'd walk out and they' be like and I was like man if you're you know like like this is not working for you we can arrange something else like you know and then finally I just said hey I need to talk to you um we've been getting out of meetings for the last two weeks and every time you're like huffing and puffing and rolling your eyes and I'm making up that you're unhappy something's going on you're feeling like she goes oh my God I started Zumba a couple weeks ago and when I sit down now for more than 30 seconds I'm not even kidding you it's like my hip locks from Zumba and I'm like immediately I'm transported to like I love Zumba where do you take Zumba but in that minute how many of you would have more respect for someone who said hey something weird happened yesterday and I'm making up that there's something going on um can we clean it up is there something I need how many would you respect oh man a person it's awesome I mean here's a great story I'm in a meeting with my leadership team and it's like a three-hour huge meeting and we're under a lot of stress we're growing something big and new it's hard and I look down there's three agenda items left and we have like 15 minutes or something and we're already an hour three people are just like oh so I'm like let's just take all this stuff off except for this one thing that's tactical and in the weeds and we got to get this stuff answered today so let's just do it so we start talking and then like five minutes later my CFO looks at me and says I'm sorry I got interrupt and I was like what's up and he said I'm really frustrated the story I'm making up right now is you took this off the agenda because it's not important anymore which is fine except for the fact that I'm spending 90% of my time and resources as is my team on this issue right here so if it's not important anymore I'd like to know about it and I'm like man thank you for having the balls to do that yeah that's big because do you really want someone on your team sitting there in resentment and not listening I said no I'm pulling it out cuz it's the most important thing on the agenda and I will not cram it into 20 minutes we will have another meeting where we spend an hour dedicated to just this so we he's like thanks awesome but I mean how many times do we just sit with these stories we make up why aren't we given these tools early in life that's the part that kills me is that I'm you know too old to be not knowing these things and yet I find and I think one of the reason your work is so spectacularly popular is because we don't have these tools imagine a world in where we're given these tools as young people and you know again talking to the creative Community that's largely listening here imagine the work that would be possible and the work that's made that's shut down because of these feelings that we wrestle with we don't have the tool kit true and like gosh and I will tell you that I I write this in the book there is nothing more profoundly dangerous than the stories we make up about our creativity there are no you know our Crea it our our lovability and our Divinity are the three most dangerous stories we make up um and we have to reclaim those narratives we have to say just because someone didn't understand or put value on something I created doesn't change its worth or my worth so no one is ordained to take our story of faith our story of spirituality and say it's real or not real based on who we are or who we love or what we believe in you know and then the biggest one is really our lovability just because someone doesn't have the capacity or the ability to love us doesn't change our lovability it doesn't make us unlovable because someone couldn't love us and one of the first stories we lean into when we have someone in our life who couldn't love us is there something about me that's unlovable and that is a profoundly dangerous narrative for sure you know so these St add driv it drives everything yeah and so I think for me it's really all about when you own the story you get to write the ending when you say here's this crazy story I'm making up and I'm going to own it and it's super uncomfortable but I am the author of my life I will decide how the story ends I'm the decider I'm the decider and I think creatives do that every day I actually credit my profession as being the thing because you are or especially a very public figure like like both of us you're out there and your goal is to put work out into the world and do so very publicly that is a very learned response to say I I can say that it didn't go like this at first early on in the internet but to be able to say like is this a story that I need to pay attention to you know and I actually find this about not just reading YouTube comments but the 4:00 a.m. the 3:00 a.m. voice when you wake up to go to the bathroom yeah that's a mean one right that's a mean ass voice why is the bathroom voice so mean I don't know um I I just listened to a great podcast between Tim Ferris and Tara Brock Tim yeah Tim's a good friend of both of ours and that the the voice and if can you just can we shut that thing down because it gets you it's it gets you when you're not ready for it it's 4 in the morning and you're making your way to the bathroom like did you do that thing you didn't do that thing did you you're supposed to do the thing you didn't do the thing you didn't call the person do the thing and why do we get hijacked then because our guards are down because we're vulnerable and we're just waking up to go pee and then we get yeah I mean like that's I mean that's what's happens but I have to tell you that I have a great hack for that voice oh I love this um practical advice yeah this is practical advice I thought at first when I first started researching shame because it's a Shamy Gremlin voice that happens um I thought at first that you just like shut up like go away but then all of a sudden now you're awake and you've got all this fight energy and you're you're like oh my God it's four I think the best thing to do is I think it's roomy who said invite your enemy to tea but I think what you do is say you know what I hear you I get it I get how you're trying to protect me but I'm good thanks it's such a if you've ever raised a I can't wait to have that conversation tonight yeah no I mean just like if you've ever raised a toddler you know that if you engage you know and you're like if you engage they will they will because they will do things that you will not do so they will win they will throw themselves on the floor they'll scream they'll yell and shame is the same way but if you turn toward that voice it says oh my God you forgot the email to this person or you were supposed to do this or what you know why didn't you do this and you say well I hear you I got it thanks or the voice that says you can't do this thing tomorrow you're not good enough it's so easy to turn toward it and say I really get how you're trying to protect me appreciate it I'm going in anyway thanks and then just right back to sleep oh this is such good I love it no it's really helpful as opposed to getting all fight energy with it yes I'm going to take a sip of water because we're going to try and find a person in the audience who's got a question for ber um th we got we've got the two people have already spoke anyone else anyone anyone anyone yes my good man hi so uh if you could give any advice to your 25-year-old self what would it be as far as um countering vulnerability and moving forward cuz you guys have both obviously made it but for someone like me who's young and that Gremlin voice is like constantly on me just wondering if you could share any words I don't know if I can phrase it that how I would say it to my I guess why I would tell my 25 yearold self is this and I my 25-year-old self would have flipped me right off when I said this so let me just tell you let me just preface it that way but I think I would have told my 25-year-old self all the pleasing and proving and perfecting that you're doing is getting in the way of what you're supposed to be doing you will never I would have just I would have grabbed myself by the shoulders and shook myself and said you will never live the you can never live the life that you want to live and not disappoint other people you'll need to choose now that's what I would have told my 25 like you're going to piss some people off you're going to let down some people if you're yourself because not everybody can like everybody right not everyone can like everyone and you spend the first you know your 30s are notoriously difficult for this your 30s are like uh yes the 30s are you yeah yeah the 30s are like I think I can be me and be authentic and make everyone around me happy um yes or no yes and then you get this is the gift of midlife I'm too tired for that yeah the GI of your life is like something's got to go and for the first time in your life and you're like it ain't going to be me yeah so yeah so that's what I would tell my 25 you're gonna not cruy or with intention but the best thing you have something that only you can bring to the world whether you're a a photographer or a writer or a thinker you've got something that only uniquely you can bring um and if you try to keep everyone around you happy while you're bringing it you will not bring it and not utilizing your gifts is dangerous that is awesome that's the I ask people to try and find pictures that only they can take like what is a picture that literally only you could take if people like well anyone take a picture of Grand Canyon like yep so don't take a picture of Canon like what is a thing a story that only you have access to and whether that's access to a personality to a whole group of people and you're shooting portraits of them whether it's a story that you have lived the life you've lived and now you have this perspective that is unique tell that story because that makes that's the difference between something that's benign and general and simple and something that is complex and human and in the particular lies the universal people you know that's so true I ripped that off from somewhere I don't remember where I'm G to rip it off no you know I'll tell you this I looked at some of your photos um of have a book a beautiful book that you a Seattle book yeah the Seattle 100 yeah um but even though like I see your heart in those pictures of other people I I have a unique relationship with those people that allowed me access that I don't think anyone else yeah like I saw you in them thank you so it doesn't matter if there were a thousand people as talented as you no one could bring that that's the point and and as creatives like that is a message that we will never hear enough that you are enough and you have there you have some angle and your job when people talk about finding your vision your voice your job is to find that like that's the work that's the work that you need to do as a creative and whether that's creative in Hobby in career or just life like your job is to find the thing that you have a unique on and embrace that and that's authentic that's sort of where authenticity comes out the conversation um awesome question I want to keep on trucking we've got one question here in the front tell us who you are and what's the question I'm LBA hi so I have a question about when you're writing that story and then you go to the person and you you're going to go to them authentically and say what you said so when that happens for me I end up in a battle between my authentic voice and saying what you said and the fear that comes over me like for some reason I start well another story I guess I start to think I'm going to hurt them they're going to be mad this is what I should yeah that I'm even telling them the story that I was writing in my head I think that's I think those are real I think those are real fears I think those and I think they're reality so I think there have been times when I have said to someone you know and let me tell you one thing when I when you you know your shitty first draft is honest when you can look at it and you feel like you would die if anyone ever found it okay you know because those sfds should be totally unfiltered they should say might all sound like a really pissed off 5-year-old they're like it's not fair I hate this person um you know it there because because it should be unfiltered and honest and then you need to ask yourself what do I need to know more about the situation about myself and sometimes I don't even go to that person sometimes I realize you know what I'm only going to go to you like if I go to you and say look I'm in struggle and here's what I'm making up about what's happening between us right now that is a complete vulnerable investment move and if I don't have a relationship with you that is of some value to me I'm not I'm going to work that story out on my own the other thing is and this is huge I think part of this we never share these struggles with people until our healing is not dependent on their reaction all right snap snap that Mak sense like that's that's like right yeah so so like let's say it's a hard story between me and someone in my family Steve Steve um Steve's a hard one because he and I use this you know that line the story well the story I'm making up he and I use that line our marriage probably two or three times a week I use it with my kids I use it with my our leadership team uses it but let's say it's like someone let's like it's a parent or an in-law um for [Music] me I've already worked through the hurt attached to that so I want you to know this and here's what happens let's say let's say you're my mom and and I say look this happened yesterday at after church at lunch and the story I make up is that you were embarrassed you thought I was saying something I shouldn't have been saying in front of my sisters and you're squeezing my knee under the table and it really hurt my feelings and so I'm making up that you think I was talking out of turn or something and she comes back and says well you will we're talking out of turn you know and you need to like zip it and you know I don't think my mom my mom would never say that but then it gives me a great opportunity to say okay let me hear your concerns okay I got it I understand here's what's okay and here's what's not okay it's okay for you to talk to me about your concerns it's not okay to squeeze my leg under the table and don't put me down in front of everybody at the table those things are not okay boundaries boundaries so what ends up happen it's totally boundaries every time I've come back telling someone here's what I'm making up about what's happening and they're like damn straight I am mad it's been a boundary issue okay and so you gotta you got to be your rise is never dependent on other people that's amazing that's powerful and I think about that I went to the creative the professional creative where you're putting your work out there all the time and where it might be my job or someone else's job and say yeah I don't know what you're thinking here we need to go a little bit taller a little bit more black and white a little bit whatever and it's their job to process that and go on and make the next thing and at some sometimes that there there's a different filter that they're applying to the feedback like you can give the same feedback you have a session every you know the creative director rolls in reviews the things and they do it every day day at certain at 3:00 and then one day at 3:00 you hear the same thing you heard something like the the day before the day before that but today it feels different and like to me that is something that the creative Community we I met back to say earlier we don't have the tools for it and just literally the simple framework of it's the professional creative's job is to take feedback and then change their thing but it's also to be able to say on that one day we like I'm making up a little story that we've had feedback three days in a row and that you think I'm a bad designer and you can say oh gosh no I don't think you're a bad designer I think you're awesome designer I'm being extra hard on you because I want to push you to be the best designer you can possibly be that is so huge yeah it's but it's real and and the we don't have I don't think culturally we don't have this specifically in the creative Community I see a lack of it is the ability to ask that question that you and the way you phrase it is very powerful I'm making up a story right now and help me fill in the the parts that are true and are true and then it just gives me this sort of open canvas to say what I really feel and if I really feel that you're doing something wrong it's an invitation to engage in a discussion about it that's it yeah instead of reacting yeah it's let me give you a very simp simple the simple formula for the headline for this whole discussion today he or she who has the greatest capacity for discomfort Rises the fastest I think that might get tweeted a couple times yeah I know he or she who has the greatest capacity for discomfort Rises the fastest and where I learned about discomfort is really from I don't know who'd put this on on Instagram but the creatives that whole creative process have y'all seen this on on Instagram and other places it's like this is going to be awesome this sucks I suck this is [ __ ] this is awesome that is the creative process right I mean when I write I'm like I sit down and write a chapter I'm like this is going to be awesome I'm like then I get like an hour into I'm like who cares I don't care no one reading this is going to Care this S I suck yeah and then but what happens because it's your job it's who you are you know born makers we keep pushing through and then you get to the place where you're like this is awesome and you know what this is the thing about in storytelling there's act one act two and act three act one is the inciting incident something happens that's hard act two is where the main character to solve the problem by every easy way possible without being vulnerable and so that's that part of the creative process where you're like I want to do this and I don't want it to hurt yeah it's the dark you know the darkness right oh gosh yeah about that yeah it's the darkness the day two day two it's day two the thing about the darkness that creatives taught me which is so beautiful to me and has changed my life is that if it is your 500th meeting with with the creative director and you're in the dark and things are not getting better and you've redesigned and redone this and it's not better you can't skip day two you cannot skip act two even if this is your 20th year doing this the only thing experience gives you is a little grace that Whispers In Your Ear you've been in the dark before you know your way through stay in the dark it's going to be okay it's going to be okay and you know and so when you say you know the two of you have some success now the difference I think in probably what you feel when the Gremlins are saying you're not enough who do you think you are and the Gremlins are saying it to me and I would I'd venture to say maybe you is I know that I will come out of this that's yeah that's another tool in the toolkit right of we've referenced the internet several times we should probably go to to the actual Internet and get some questions cuz there's people from Texas and literally there were people from Africa from England from Ireland from Switzerland from I just in the questions before the show even started from all over the universe talking about this so NASA you got a couple of questions from the universe to ask us Dr Berne uh so I got one from Daniel Wong and he wants to know um I struggle at at fa the failing test um it's in my opinion a fear of failing um what should I do about that fear of failing it's pretty natural man yeah I don't know it's it's yours it's your show take it away fear of failing yeah I mean I think the best thing the best thing I can tell him the best thing I can tell myself is you're going to fail like the only people who don't fail are people who never put anything out into the world there are a million cheap seats in the arena today people who will never ever step foot they'll never fail I have cut and pasted that quote and sent it to people like on the internet like oh yeah M sorry you're not in the arena I'm not actually interested in hearing your feedback just I try not to do that because that's not a but you're gonna fail don't engage trolls don't engage Trolls but but it's so but that's the that's the point again if you're just now joining us from anywhere around the world I'm sitting with ber Brown and we're talking about Rising strong she's giving us the the very wise advice that if you are actually putting yourself out there it's not mitigating failure you will fail you're going to fail and you will be faced down in the mud as you say and you have to actually get back up and you're giving us tools to get back up so let me give you this tool for failure there's the two most important seats in the arena and let me tell you the arena for me the hardest arena in my life not the books not the TED talks not my work for sure my marriage parenting those are hard um the two most important seats in the arena self-compassion and empathy have one person in your life you don't need a whole you know crew one person in your life who when you fail not if you fail will pick you back up and dust you off and look at you and won't [ __ ] you will say that sucked as bad as you thought it did um your knees are all bur yeah like that was that that that spill was as hard to watch as it was to but you know what I'm pushing you back in because you're being brave and so you got to have one or two people who will rally around um and then this the expectation it's going to happen like I'm gonna we're gonna fail so true next question one more from the internet if you got one there yeah um it's Tony Su and he wants to know um when you've been saying mean things to yourself all your life how do you switch and start saying kind things is it a switch that you can flip or are we are we taking the not three-step process well you know it's really I if if you really if that's your selft talk which we all have it right everyone has a self talk sometimes the Gremlins um I think even more than Rising strong would be Dearing greatly or the gifts of imperfection about really talking about shame and selft talk for me I have a big thing in my desk over where I work and write that says talk to yourself like you talk to someone you love um and that is really hard to talk so the best story I can give you is sent a really horrible email I thought I fored a I got a really mean email from someone that just was horrible like you suck you're not wholehearted because I turned down an event with this person and and I was like I I I boarded to Steve with a little note that was like this guy's a total like I mean yeah every word you can think of like there were four or five of them hyphenated um and I accidentally hit reply instead of Ford that I got where's the mic so you can drop it some yeah yeah and I looked up and I was just getting ready to berate myself for doing it and I saw that sign that said talk to yourself like you talk to someone you love and and you went high five self yeah know right way to go no and I thought what would I say to my 16-year-old daughter who is emailing for the first time a lot now and she she's going to make this mistake right and I would say look if you email enough you're going to do this so let's take a deep breath not dog down on yourself figure out how to clean it up and make amends and that's what I did so I think we have to get clear on shame and understand shame if that's our selft talk and it's a practice to talk to ourselves in a way that we would talk to people with respect I'm G to go I'm going to take us back in time to the last time you're on the show and uh we had a great conversation you're talking about yeah this is going to be awesome actually my so you're talking about you know being judged in shame and oh bless your heart oh my God is the thing that when people are judging you in South say Texas yeah Texas like you uh would you want to give a little color on the bless your heart and then I'll I'll oh no yeah no I remember exactly what I said because let me tell you that talking about something went wild on Twitter yeah so no I was saying that like um in Texas it's a very passive aggressive way to judge people is to say oh she thinks she looks so cute in that outfit bless her heart um and it's like a way of saying like I'm judging you and God is on my side like even God is against you and so I made the comment on the show that I will never be able to live down that one day I'm going to get a t-shirt made that said if you bless my heart I will punch your face I kick your ass I will kick your ass is that what it was yes and even when I was tweeting yesterday about coming people like kept only if you wear the blusher heart t-shirt on there yeah well I would say that an artist who works here at creative live named Marcos when he heard that statement whatever a year and a half ago he designed this actual thing which does say if you bless my heart I'm going to kick your ass oh my God and so we're having t-shirts made and we'll send them to you when you get off the book there you go so shout out Marcos thank you very much man yeah um oh my God that I don't know what happened I you guys get a shot of that one a good one great that's pretty good right there because let me tell you something what is the this is great going back to that question that just came on in from the internet what is the opposite of Shame what is the antidote to shame is empathy empathy so if you call me and you say God ber you're not going to believe what's happened at work I'm in such a shame spiral and I listen to you and I respond empath ially like oh dude I know what that feels like like you're completely alone in this and there's no way out and you're like yes shame can't hold on but there's a huge difference between empathy and sympathy empathy is feeling with someone like oh dude I get it I've been there you're not alone sympathy is a you poor thing I'm so sorry that must suck to be you I'm really yeah and I think that bless your heart thing is a really sympathetic like sympathy I feel bad for you while I'm happy I'm not you do you know what I mean it's weird that sympathy like culturally and contextually is like oh I have so much sympathy for that person which is like oh it sucks to be you o yeah which is that's not like you need to sit with someone in the dark and just hold on to their hand and that's it with you I'm with you the two most powerful words when someone's in shame or in pain me too like I get it you're not alone shame hates it it can't hold on well thank you for that well figure out what kind of t-shirts are the right ones to make so that you'll actually wear them cuz I just I can't wait to see you in that t-shirt it's be awesome I'll totally wear that t-shirt so we're going to go back to the internet for one more question then we're going to go to the in studio audience but we've got about 15 minutes left so please NASA one more question from the worldwide web all right so Kieran Liggins what's up Jason Renee tips on idea expansion and getting the best out of idea sessions the best idea sessions boy that's has something to do like brainstorming how do you how do you turn off the criticism voice something like that well I immediately go to Ed catmull um the CEO of Pixar and his whole idea of a Brain Trust um and how if you can you know if you can put together ideas are really fragile things um and in order for like at least with my team if we're in an idea session we really have to set a safe container before that starts even though they're people we know and we trust we have to we usually start with a check-in about what do we need to rumble it's a word that I use from the rising strong process rumbling with a story what do you need to rumble today meaning what do you need to speak your truth and say what's on your mind and then we do permission slip so we use Post-it notes and everyone writes themselves permission for the meeting um and then we go around the table and share our permission slip so like a permission slip for me might be I give myself permission um to feel tender today and to listen more than I talk and Chase might say I give myself permission to be honest today or you know and then we just check in with each other because container building is a term that they use a lot in mental health um but what I've learned from working with a lot of leaders and organizations and with my own team is you have to build a container yeah there's a lot of assumption that exists especially in the creative world like oh yeah we're creatives we can take it we're done let's get to work people yeah but build it take I mean it's five minutes to go around the room with ad Evis and say what do you need from us today and what are you giving yourself permission to do today in this meeting and then you know where everyone is um and so I say the best ideas can only be born with very trusting midwives you know that's powerful that's the the um the notion of safety can you talk about safety and trust you talked about trust a fair bit in the book and you know we talk here at Crea life about trust and accountability on our team and or if you're you know make a sports analogy you pass the ball right you're expecting someone going to be there you trusting that that's going to happen um accountability is like you either were there or you weren't there and I'm going to do my best to be there every time and if I can't I'm going to let you know uh talk about trust in through the lens of rising strong yeah so trust was trust really emerged as a huge construct in this in this work and so I was very interested I came across this work by Charles feltman who talked about he gave this definition of trust that I love are you ready for this don't attribute it to me if you're on the web it's feltman like felt and then man um but his definition of trust is great it says I'm choosing to make something important to me vulnerable to your actions I'm choosing to take something important to me and make it vulnerable to your actions that's trust right and so he talks a little bit about the importance of understanding what trust is because if I looked at you and we worked together and I just say dude I don't trust you on this that's a big word and that's a you you know that's a heavy thing and so I went in asking this question what is trust when we what do we talk about when we talk about trust and so I went through all the way back 13 years to the data with my team looking for what do people talk about when they talk about trust and I put together all the concepts and I looked at them and I was able to put them into an acronym that really helps me and it's braving b r a v i n g braving and so what trust is and you nailed it talking about your team we trust people with whom we have boundaries there's reliability you say what you're going to do you do what you say you're going to do accountability The Vault meaning what I share with you and this is crazy about the Vault this is what people don't get about trust and confidentiality I trust you if I share something with you and you don't share it with other people right that's because we're in the vault y but let me tell you what else the vault is and this is where people screw up trust all the time but if you and I sit down and you're like oh my god did you hear what's going on with Kate you're not betraying me but the fact that you're betraying someone else to me changes my trust level with you does that make sense but we don't ever think about that because what we do is we actually try to gain Trust by sharing secrets with each other about other people that's so messed up right so the Vault meaning you don't share what I share with you and you don't share with me which not what is that is what that which is not yours to share I Integrity which is a huge thing of trust I get I have a very simple definition in my opinion for integrity it is choosing courage over Comfort it is choosing what's right over what's fun fast or easy and practicing your values not just professing them so that to me is integrity um in Is non-judgment We I trust you if we can be in a relationship where we can both fall down ask for help and screw up and not judge each other and the last is generosity I trust you if when I make a mistake you make the most generous assumption about it first and check it out with me yeah do not ascribe to malice that which can be ascribed to ineptitude or yes exactly the hypothesis of generosity what's the most generous assumption I can make about this person's words actions or behaviors so if you think about and the reason why I think it's helpful to break trust down into Concepts is then if you want to sit down and I work for you and we really have you're having some struggles with me you don't have to sit down and say ber look we got some trust issues you can say ber we have some reliability issues that's affecting our trust level and now I don't have this big Gauzy thing that I can't fix there's something very specific I can work on while we can acknowledge the other stuff is going really well you should be a professional I'm gonna try it one day I'm glad we're recording this because I'm going to play that back over there's so many um you've given us so many nuggets um I heard something I'm trying to remember where I heard it uh and I'm not going to get it right now so I won't burn the time but it was like look at everybody else as if you were their mother that's you know there's something that's really sympathetic not no empathetic I almost said it that was that cultural that slip right there but just sympathetic yeah the the when someone cuts you off and you're driving you can either look at them and have the whole list of adjectives that we want to say to that person they can say you know they are probably they are probably you know late to help someone who's in help or who needs help right now or there's there's something a great story about him like oh there goes Ricky he's going to help out Sally yeah as opposed to the thing that we normally say so is that a good tool or is that is that a crutch is that fair for me to think no it is a life Cher okay it is the part of the research chapter 6 that I was so pissed off writing it no really it's like it's part it's it's part of the research for me that I find the hardest to do that um I am not yeah I think it's really hard yeah I wish we had time we would do the exercise but we don't how much time how much time does the exercise take do it should we do it all right here's what I want you to do do you believe in general that people are doing the best they can yeah yeah yeah yeah right right okay so people are mixed on this okay so here's what I want you to do I want you to think of someone in your life that you have a lot of judgment around like this person just that you are just everyone's like we got it you already got your person yeah yeah you got your person yeah okay so here's my question for you what if I came down from on high whatever being or thing you believe in the universe nature God whatever and I said that person you're thinking of right now I looked you right in the eye and said that person is absolutely doing the very best he or she can do tell me what's behind the face you're making right now well total empathy totally shifted my view um in a qu feel very sensitive about it emotion right yeah definitely yeah I totally get that yeah yeah thanks for being brave and sharing that yeah what else who else is feeling something yeah I immediately turn around and say Well they're clearly doing the best they can then I'm [ __ ] then it comes back and is directly that all of that animosity I direct it myself okay if they're doing the best they can then I'm an [ __ ] that would be my first response too when I think about so one of the things that happened in this research is this question emerged are people doing the best they can and of course my answer was hail no oh my God hail no they're not doing the best they can is that what you were thinking like yes right and so here's the thing are people doing the and I was like oh no no they're not doing the best they can and so my therapist really pushed me on this and so I was like when I'm pushed in something in therapy I usually open up a research study on it to disprove to disprove my therapist so I start asking interviewing hundreds of people like we're asking like do you believe people doing the best they can and so we we don't know the answer there's no there's there's no research answer there's no definitive answer but my husband was like so brilliant so I said do you think people are doing the best they can and this was after like probably 50 interviews where it was completely saturated well here's what I was learning the people who said oh Hil no were absolutely the people who were hardest on themselves struggled with perfectionism um and the people who said yeah I think in general people are were much kinder to themselves and much more fell into the wholehearted category and so my husband's like thinking about about it and he's a pediatrician so he sees the worst in people and the best in people and he his answer was so profound he said I'm not sure whether they are or not but when I move through the world assuming they are it makes my life better and so what I came to the conclusion of and so I call it living big in the book because people who assume normally that they're not are people who usually lack boundaries like myself because I'm constantly pissed off wondering why you're doing all these dumb things are you trying to aggravate me on purpose why don't you make better choices why are you putting all us through you know but the question becomes this think about your person you got your person in your mind what boundaries need to be in place for you so you can extend and so you can stay in your integrity and extend the most generous assumption about this person what boundaries do you need to put in place to stay in your integrity and be generous towards your this person so for me it would mean if that person's really doing the best they can and I want to be generous I need to put some boundaries around my relationship with this person and say I got to stop trying to fix you and help you out in return for an unspoken condition that I'm putting on our relationship does that make sense like I did this with a group of priests and deacons in the Episcopal church and I asked someone I asked this everyone in the room to think of someone and this couple who were both deacons in West Texas very tough rural um they both thought the same person and when I said what boundaries need to be in place and this was I said why do you hate this why why does this person bring up so much judgment and they said we keep bringing money and diapers and formula and they're you know they have six kids and they live in this trailer with electricity and he sells the diapers and the formula sometimes for money to gamble and you just you they were just like we can't stay out of judgment with this person and I said so what boundaries would need to be in place for you to stay in your integrity and be generous toward this person and they both just they were a couple and they just started crying and they said either bring stuff and leave it with Grace or stop helping that's right but the thing that's not working is we just keep going and judging and judging does that make sense and so I think that ascription quote not ascribed to mous what could be otherwise explained by incompetence or any other a thousand things right and so for me it's always what boundaries need to be in place so I can be in my integrity and be generous toward other people and it has made me very Fierce with my boundaries I mean things like I really care about you I like you I love being neighbors but you can't drink as much as you normally drink when you come over to our Christmas party because it's uncomfortable for me and my family and the kids that are at the party like who who's like who's saying that because what I'm better better at doing is not saying anything not setting any boundaries and then talking bad about you later right yeah and then you're you're taking that Badness and you're passing it on in the trust Vault to somebody else and you're eroding that relationship that you have it's sort of like a bad set of dominoes it's a bad set of do and and it's exhausting so I think whenever I'm wondering why everyone's trying to piss me off on purpose I go back to the living big right yeah uh we're going to have one more question from the in studio audience we're going to go to you right here you've you've uh been visibly and vocally excited about a lot of stuff throughout the show which has been really fun so um first St thank you I'm super fan um saw you at UCLA on Saturday traveling we'll be at the book thing tonight um with my wife who's not here who's watching so she probably wants me to say something so this is my question from a friend who's also watching yes um what happens when people we love and value most don't know how to adapt uh when we start living more wholeheartedly and she said to say asking for a friend and that's Victoria she knows who she is out it uh Victoria asking for a friend um yeah let me tell you something the wholeheartedness thing about living you know living in loving with your whole heart and being authentic and showing up and being seen and being vulnerable You're Going to Shake loose some people in your life that I think first of all I I never know how to say this without sounding like it's like it's wrong so maybe you can fix it for me yeah like yeah no try try to understand what I'm saying here I haven't come up here with it yet exactly okay let's do this I don't want to say that we're accountable for helping making other people understand our changes but what I'm I guess what I'm trying because that sounds like a mment and some bad stuff right I know what you just said but yeah yeah but what I'm trying to say is if we're really good friends or you're my partner or you're my brother and I'm really changing and trying to work on the way I live you got to understand that's going to be scary for the people who care about you yeah and to say to them at least you're not accountable for bringing them along but if you're invested in a relationship to look at that person and say Here's what I'm trying to change and why and here's this crazy Ted Talk of this interview with Chas and this person or here's what's speaking to me right now and what I'm trying to do in my life and I want to share what I'm thinking with you because our relationship and you matter to me so you're not accountable or responsible for changing People along with you because that's a no that's a non-starter m but you are it's like when I was getting my master's degree in social work and I was taking women's Theory and feminist practice and all these things and I would come home and Steve would say hey do you want to go to the movies babe I'm like don't call me babe and he's like what do you mean I'm like just don't call me babe it's super oppressive and I don't I don't appreciate you and you know what in fact in General I think your behavior you know like and and he's like he would almost be in tears and he's like what's happening because I didn't because I didn't say man I'm in these classes and I've come to this like new understanding about gender and internalized depression and how I value you know I just punished him for not knowing and changing with me but I think the thing is that when we really feel comfortable with our growth we can understand how that can really freak people out sometimes does that that is yeah that's beautiful and I feel like that's what you have done so well if you haven't actually answered everyone's questions which I think you've done an amazing job about all the stuff about vulnerability trust shame you've opened the conversation in a way that our culture hadn't had it open before thank you like I hope so no other like that is it's so powerful that's powerful medicine um I already have like three copies of your book one on my iPad one on K in a physical one um if you're you know you're at home and you don't have this book yet please pick it up I don't want to just you you're your book has sold itself it's already number one so there's nowhere for it to go but uh I from a netive numbers from a cultural stpoint you've really changed the dialogue you've moved it in a direction that you know it was hidden under the cloak of fear and I I grew up my entire childhood was is around something like it's just a felt in it hindsight I had a great middle class upbringing like I have nothing to complain about but when I I think of all the stories that I told myself and the actions that I took like it all it was so much of it that was bathed in fear and um darkness and not a conversation about the conversation that you've started around all these things so thank you very very much yeah um and thanks you know I do I I I'm excited about this conversation I really want to be a part of it but I don't want a conversation as something between people and so without people like you giving me a place to come and talk about it um we are happy to provide that but really I mean so I'm grateful for that because that's hard when you have something you really believe in and you're passionate about it um but you can't do that without people a conversation's between people so thank you it's it's well you're welcome but it's very very easy to give someone a gift who you feel like has given you so much and not me me personally for sure but so many people again we've mentioned it several times throughout the show I feel akin to the creative spirits that that participate in Creative life and paid attention to my work and the work of my peers and I know that there's so much goodness that's absent because of some of the problems that you are uncovering and bringing out into the open and we owe you a huge set of gratitude uh I got to wrap the show up right now I want to say thanks there's probably a couple people that we should give some signed copies of berne's book you want to give me a couple of to read off here maybe you can read them or k can hand them to you what do you got I want to say that these folks are getting sign copies of br's book and that would be thank you NASA that's Jenny Barber at Jenny barbs Alyssa hippolito at thenen and snow uh Anthony Williams at the ACW show Kevin quac uh K quack beatric clay at beatric clay Laura da at Laura da Lauren Nicole oceany and Gilbert Gilbert ho email production Chase jarvis.com send us your email address and we will send you not just a book but a signed one from her that's incredible thank you so much cretive live big big big round of applause from signing off we'll be back next time stay with us we love you goodbye internet Mah you guys so [Music] [Music]

Channel: Chase Jarvis

Views: 372,648

Keywords: Brené Brown (Author), Rising Strong, Chase Jarvis (Person), failure, inspiration, daring greatly, cjLIVE, creativelive, borrowlenses, ted talk, ted, creativity, shame, chasejarvisLIVE, how to, photography

Id: cUuXDZERxrk

Length: 82min 17sec (4937 seconds)

Published: Sun Sep 20 2015