The Mysteries of Lorkhan, the Missing God | The Elder Scrolls Podcast #58

[Music] what is up ladies and gentlemen welcome back to fudge mop and i'm scott here with michael and drew as always this is the elder scrolls podcast and today we are talking all about the centerpiece of mundus we are talking about law khan the missing god and his various other names but which one of you guys would like to start us off with a little bit of a primer about this being okay lorcan is credited with creating mundus and everything we see in the older scrolls game so everything you've explored in tamriel is essentially his work now he is quite an interesting god in the sense that he features across all the different pantheons and in a nutshell he is considered a god of men because he is seen as having given them the gift of mortality and he's disliked generally speaking by the elves who see him as being a trickster god who basically stole their divine form from them and made them into mortals and made them experience life just like men do though they live a lot longer but he's basically stolen divinity from them so they have an unfavorable view of him and men generally speaking and will get into all the different niche cultural interpretations but men generally they really like him and they really appreciate um the life that you know he's given them yeah it's worth noting that like in the community you'll find these terms paramedic and anuric and you'll often seen as a broad brush padomayo referring to a favorable view of laura khan and uh anua being a unfavorable view and that those names derive from the original sort of anu and padme the conflicting forces and padme's derivative being sithis and then further down you have law khan on the opposite side you have annual and and auriel and and that kind of the way that that all of the cultures feel about law khan sort of give them that underlying theological sort of um of premise and you know like we were sort of saying you'll have ideas of you know common men like the needs and so on and the noise they generally believe that they are created by the gods and therefore you know it's their reality they they're thankful for their creators and even if you look at shazaar's song and so on when shazaar which is the law khan uh the name the cyrodiilic name for law khan they believe that shazaar convinced the other gods how to you know look at the beauty we can create and and they all got enthusiastic about the project whereas the elves believed that those gods same gods were tricked into making it and they lost their power and it's this one big devious trick and there is some cool symbology and stuff there you do see like in the red guards that you know he's depicted as a snake and shaw is actually depicted as a fox which is you know typically like you know cunning fox and trickery and so on but we can get into those but i think one of the like we should probably stick to i guess some of the most core central facts that we know um and we can kind of talk about uh i guess convention and did someone else want to take it away drew you want to get in their own convention in the heart and so on very much to very much take it from the beginning it's kind of like if you imagine using the monomyth as the source because it's kind of the perfect way to look at it as you've you know you've got adam anu and padmai at the top annual and syphilis and then auriel and lor khan so lorcan and auriel are kind of the opposites and i mean that's like just as a passing comment it's an unusual kind of ironic thing about the the high elves is that they see themselves as very pure it's kind of like anuic is anu is this perfect light ineffable and cannot be quenched it's ever bright and um you know any shadow like panama being the shadow is a kind of taint on the light and you can kind of see their worldview as trying to get back to that but that's kind of impossible and the the fact that they exist in the first place relies on the interplay of anu and padamay so law khan as much as they hate him is essential to their existence um so then in the early days when you've got auriel and trinimac who are kind of the the kind of the heads of what high elves generally believe nowadays is that we need to get back into heaven they're begging anu to take them back um versus lorkhan who would probably most commonly be called shaw here because he's kind of like when he's the god of men and the nords hold on to this the strongest but it was shaw versus auriel the armies of men versus the armies of elves so there's the old el nifey the elves and the wandering el nafee the men and they clashed and trinimac beat lor khan and they took him to this convention where all the gods who committed their power to this world held him accountable basically and ripped out his heart and shot it across tamriel which is where red mountain erupted yeah and that's the heart of lorcan that you'll find later on also just worth noting that uh you know uh where the heart of law comes underneath the red mountain and the blood that it sort of pumps is is the ebony because ebony is actually god's blood and sometimes and as it as it flew across tamriel a little drop of blood fell down into an ayleid well and created the amulet of kings essentially or originally called the kim out of baal or kimmel yeah there's a lot of complicated names yeah a lot of ramifications of that which i'm sure we'll talk about about shaw's actual role in the empire it's also worth noting that there that what is presented like the convention even that's the typical story of the monomyth that you sort of get um but it is very much the elven view of things even the idea like you'll get other more obscure religions like you know even the khajiit or the reachmen have very different ideas about how it all went down some are more simple like the richmond version or or uh more complex but um i think we could just start getting into some of the cultural and protect interpretations so well that's one of the weirdest things about about law khan wright is that he's such a central god when you look behind the veil and you look behind the scenes of the elder scrolls universe but you don't really see him or hear about him a whole lot because even the divines they have you know you're playing oblivion every city you go to there's a cathedral to some divine or there's the daedric shrines where you get daedric quests from um but unless you're going through some specific quests in say the elder scrolls online or you're just listening to the nords ramble about shaw although again we know that they kind of like abandoned their old pantheon a lot by the time of skyrim like i would have liked to see it a lot more but we don't as much so he definitely is a kind of behind-the-scenes figure something to note there as well is that i think it's in pretty much every single pantheon he is recognized as a dead god a lot of times it's a missing god you know he's dead he's in sovengard or you know he sacrificed himself to create the the realm of mundus enrichment mythology or he's always he's a deceased figure so he's not he's not seen as as active except which we can get into much later in sort of the ideas of cesareans and stuff like that but we'll i think an important thing to add to that is the idea that you know the way we interpret him being dead from a mortal perspective it's very final whereas with lorcan and i guess you could say with gods in general that it doesn't quite work that way you know you've got like the last line of the mono myths if i can get it up here that says but when trinimac and oreo tried to destroy the heart of lorcan it laughed at them and said this heart is the heart of the world for one was made to satisfy the other so the idea is that even though his impact on tamriel isn't strong he's he's linked to it you can't remove him from it so his will kind of is done through the just the machinations of the planet and i mean his heart's still beating too like in some ways he is very much alive well another one of his names too sort of you know the the doom drum and if you envision like you can um the elder scrolls as a song his reference has a sort of doom drum is like kind of like you know that bass beat of the whole world and you can't have the song without it you know so it's kind of like it's got to stay there and he is essential so long as the world is alive he's alive in some form it's like if you imagine the the daedric realms it's kind of just the mindscape of a daedric prince it's it's part of their being um and even if the the daedric prince isn't there it's you can't remove it from them and tamriel or mundus in general is kind of like a group project of um of original spirits before they were daedra and adria before they were ancestors and not ancestors and all of those who are involved lorcan at the head of that they're they are you can't completely remove them from this world without destroying the world you know and um so if law khan was physically beaten and sundered and you know there's a theory that he is the moons which we'll talk about but no matter what you do to him he's there and yeah his heart is beating and ebony's being pumped through the earth and and his influence is always there well to expand upon i guess the ultimate world view and kind of like we've talked about with like thalmor grand plan they would be very happy with completely undoing even what they are and becoming some sort of spirits in aetherius they see lorcan as the ultimate evil so in a way you can kind of look at the thalmor belief is kind of nihilistic they want everything to be under they have no everything it's they're in flesh prisons they don't want want to be there at all so they really you know even if he is essential i feel like their main motive is well let's undo him completely they don't have any sort of feelings so i was just going to say it is interesting if you think about it because while you can say you know we're derived from these ancestor spirits and we want to go back there as mortals and being born as mortals they have no concept at all of what being a god or spirit is like and so for them to crave it so desperately is quite strange when you consider that they have no reference range like for example if i'm like i don't know when you die you're going to go to heaven you say what's heaven like and i describe this beautiful world that would make sense to walk through and as a human and all your relatives are there and all the i don't know you can eat all the food you want or whatever you whatever right but for them it's like oh i just really want to float around eternally as as a god and whatever that means i just want it because it was taken from me like there's no mortal reference range for them because they don't have really the experience of of something so um absolutely out of out of a flashback yeah yeah they're abstract there's something um there's a little like it's a little bit of conjecture on my part but one thing that when they talk about elves i feel like a lot of the elves sort of envision is like yeah i'm going to have my soul go to aetherius it's going to be that's great heaven place but i think in a total undoing of that you sort of mundus you can kind of undo all of the sort of conventional ideas of afterlife and everything everything even when you get into some of these weird ideas like the dream slam of souls all of that becomes unbound and if you actually you know i think it's even in the monomyth that it says that you know the um how the el nino fake came about is that these certain god um there were really powerful beings and everything spirits the arda but as they were trapped and their powers drained and invested in creation they ended up eventually having to rely on um physical copulation to to reproduce and so on and continually they had to rely on that they couldn't just sort of create any more with their power and then so they eventually oh no so eventually eventually you get the realms of mortals but the idea is i think if you would undo that is that a lot of these people i guess kind of all come from a similar common like spirit thing like oversoul kind of stuff like it might be this big biggest spiritual energy kind of stuff you're not like i don't know if anyone's watching on genesis evangelion like returning to the the liquid at the end or something but it's kind of like i can imagine in a sort of a unifying force in a way that if you hear you know anyone who's taken some dmt and they're like you know when we're done we're going to reconvene with the universe and like just reconvene with consciousness as a whole like some kind of more abstract concept but i feel like what would happen is something more along like that because even the divisions of mortals of mortals of mortals and mortals and going down is a sort of construct that only exists because of mundus like something that only happened because of that but i can't help but feel like i would massively be on the side of men and i mean it's funny because obviously elves and men are different but really they're all mortals it's not like like i was saying it's not like the elves have some like recollection really of being gods they're just mortals that live for a lot longer than the men do so if all three of us even let's just say we have a lifespan of 300 years okay uh would you want to go and all reconvene in some spirit that you have no real relation to or understanding of just kind of sounds flowery and nice or because all the afterlifes are real like the other ones do you two want to go with me to sovngarde and dine on mead and battle and have fun forever all these other options sound so much more appealing because i you only have your mortal reference range it's the slightly awkward thing about the law which which gets really out there if you think about it too much but it's the difference between kind of being in the endless cycle so the world ends everyone goes to their afterlife and then they come back from the dream sleeve and that you know they're put back in this mortal realm and it goes again and again versus destroying the world but also escaping it you know you need new manchester which mankind cameron talks about like liberty and freedom and actually as you know there's suggestions that vivec has done is removing yourself from the situation and looking on the world and and that's where things get a little bit weird because yeah the i don't know that it comes back to that irony i was talking about with the high elves it's like they're they're trying to achieve total purity that's just really not achievable and in doing so they're incredibly pessimistic about the universe they've got um and it just it it's it's something yeah it's something they really strive for but they just can't actually it sounds like it happen it just sounds like not a fun existence to constantly not appreciate what you know your current situation they're not living in the now they're they're very much living in a in a future idealistic situation i suppose when you put it like that though you talk about escaping the cycle that can sound appealing because if we all went to sovngarde and then we all eventually just rebirthed into some new cycle and you didn't have any recollection of who you were before i'd prefer a sovereign guard that would last forever and not be subject to cycles but that's not what they're gonna get they're gonna have some weird you know fuzzy woozy whatever in a way to think about it though to step out of the cycle on like a personal level would be like you know if you killed yourself or if you died right you you the cycle that you live in every day as the sun rises you wake up new day you go to sleep or something but if you ask me personally it's like yeah i want to wake up tomorrow and i want to keep going do you know what i mean so it does become a real but what if you lost your memories like uh and and had to start again as a different person if i lost my memories i wouldn't know would i but wouldn't you but what if you but now knowing the options wouldn't you prefer a mix so you have an afterlife that lasts forever but won't won't start again and you lose all your yeah yeah you i was going to take it in a slightly different direction so i don't know if you wanted to interject before i do but no no go for it go from now okay well it also depends how you look on the afterlife because looking at it from a nordic perspective sovengard is this fantastic place where great heroes go to feast and and fight and drink and um but at the same time for sure who is you know who is lorkhan it is kind of a continuation of what i was talking about with this battle between lorcan and auriel and trinimac where it's preparing to you know for the end of the world slash the beginning of the world because of the cycle to return and fight that war again and really if you kind of consider the current timeline that we know about lorkhan should really want to kind of have another go because this one hasn't really gone that much in his favor you know he's been split in half his heart's been torn out he's kind of become forgotten but wouldn't that happen at the start of every cycle well i guess it depends you don't know big the dawn can go anyway like say lorcans are the armies of men win and you know the merethic era it literally is the elven for the era of the elves and that's when they dominate and then eventually men come along and kind of they become the centerpiece of tamriel's history and politics and in a in a new cycle where lorcan men win over auriel and trinimac perhaps there would have been no more effect error it would have been an era of men well what i'm saying is but but has to die for the cycle to exist because he needs to be the heart of creation to start it like if mundus doesn't die like if he doesn't die then he can't sustain mundus so he's hard as so every cycle but it's kind of but he well he's he's got to be committed to mundus but does he necessarily need to be killed by the other atarda who i think so i don't i think it is to do with only that well it depends if you go this can get really whacked so she would probably like anchor this back but if you go into the stuff with the whole um uh or all the amaranth and the scarab and all of this kind of stuff but it's like if you view like the top down you've got all of the anupadaman derivatives derivatives down right the idea is this sort of interesting test is the sigic endeavor when you're down here in immortality you're actually going back up by seeking transcendence and cheating kim and actually kind of getting outside the cycle by sort of seeing the godhead above andrew padamay kind of and then you can become the scab of the aramaic or amaranth or whatever and and create the new world the new godhead kind of thing but it's it's that's how he kind of escapes the um the death it gets a little look a lot of this is abstract outside kirkbride stuff as well that you recombine in like they for example like this might just be a word amaranth you see around but then it's that's all that's in the canon kind of thing but it you know what i mean then it's flashed up by him outside of her but let's let's let's leave come back let's start at the end once we've gotten through all this yeah so well so we've talked about we talked about the elves version of things which kind of it does mesh well with the nordic versions of things because they sort of believe in this idea of like the armies of elves and and men against one another and which is ultimately the old el nifey and the wandering illinois um being the men but we'll get to that but to start with the um to just to clarify that the traditional elven sort of belief comes from the aldema which is like you know the grey's ancest elves carried on supposedly in its most pure form by the ultima and in this ever slightly derivatives with some of the other elven races but except for the dharma which we have a bit of a a difference with but on the side of men i guess the the root sort of um men perspective comes from atmora so even the knee dix um have some sort of various different versions of him but the the needs of uh alicia's slave rebellion and so on believed in the elven gods but um sure and what came across the came across with that mora was sort of you know the idea of shaw and the very um and his armies and very favorable view of man so so their idea is that uh creation happened and then there is shaw and el um the armies of shaw um which is like all the nordic gods all kind and storn and so on who literally fought the elven gods oriole trinimac and and and so on and they had this massive war but um auriel won because true to max duff and then dorado's heart and convention um happened but uh we've kind of talked about this before is the idea that shaw is loading up soven guard as god of the underworld now sort of loading up sovereign guard with soldiers to have a try again next time at the start of the dawn era whether or not that's ever going to be successful but yeah well to take that into another interpretation of the same god this kind of leads perfectly into what we know as shazaar which is the cyrodiilic version of shaw or lorcan so you know you have elysius slave rebellion where these these needs have been subjugated by the aliens for for for all their lives so you know despite all their hardships the gods they know are the elven gods so when alicia prays she prays to the elven gods and when when finally the rebel you know just to cut straight to the end the rebellion is successful and now she's in the position you know after getting help from the nords while also having all of these slaves who worship the elven gods how does she make a religion that kind of can appeal to everyone it's cosmopolitan and doesn't doesn't upset anyone too much and that's where you kind of see lorcan or shaw really kind of get forgotten about at least in the most common yeah you know the eight divines because shazar kind of needs to be swept under the rug so that those who worship the elves and the elves in general are not going to be too upset about his inclusion well that's the thing too like even shazaar as a concept is a tones down version of the aggressive shaw which is like a warlord and made like you know he's sort of saying oh that he you know the undertaking of man is kind of his thing it's a very light version but um but all the elf killing stuff has to be forgotten for the the pantheon of the eight divines to kind of flourish and i guess you can say that's why akatosh gets put at the forefront of it because it's kind of a blend of of different elements i know i know drew likes the um likes the you know in this we've there's been videos on the channel and stuff before about how lore khan and you know shazaar is truly like the god of man but to you know um go forth in this cosports and way they started to brush them under the rug and then they've changed things but one thing we've also discussed is that that just we know like history looking backwards like from here but we don't know at what point the sort of shazaar kept on sort of disappearing the history like it could have been much earlier or it could even be in first era as late as riemann or something until riemann came about because then riemann even was considered a culture of god at some point and he might have taken limelight away and you know people would say now that talos is sort of like the new empire god which may have something to do with law khan anyway some sort of we won't get into that one let's leave the way i the way i see akatosh is kind of taking auriel and taking elements of shore and kind of combining them in this pantheon so when you see you know it's it's very much the cyrodiilic way to view akatosh as having one head of a dragon and one head of a man and that's for me at least it's there are there are lots of hints about this in the law like a lot of it comes from um what's his name um i'm blanking on his name the the ape man um a lot of that comes from their the idea that they want to remove the old mary taint from akatash and and it it does it does seem to be that akatosh was built from a combination of the time god and the god who kind of allowed men to escape the clutches of elven slavery it's interesting there's a maricardi selective um quote about shazaar being the missing sibling of akatosh like despite them being monotheistic and saying i think it's singularly misplaced as in being the missing god and therefore doubly venerated so it's almost as if there's this subtle recognition of shazaar or law khan being like the truth especially especially with the two heads i wonder and also being favorable of creation ultimately what creation comes down to is the meeting of anno and padme and then obviously their derivatives more specifically mundus and so on but without both of those essential forces you can't have it in a way and both uh shazaar or other name lokan or um akatosh other name auriel are both derivatives of both those two essential forces so when you create and make your your akatosh this central figure of your pantheon and so on is basically a synthesis um of both the essential forces and therefore very favorable of creation because those you need both those essential forces to have mundus and so on and also hap you know happens that their uh mythology is very you know has a good look on creation and so on but but yeah it's a it's an interesting uh uh view of things but um i reckon let's move to the dunmer because while we were keeping things really early and not as abstract because the khajiit they do a whole different thing and the reachmen have got their own thing but and even the red guards have got their sort of own thing as well so what's somewhat related is we can start off the the dunmer story all starts with um the chimers exodus um at the guidance of the prophet veloth who hears the words from boethiah but also mafaa and sort of azura and these are the three good daedri that lead them away um and there's various stories as as to what exactly happens but the gist of it is is that trinimac comes with his army of followers and they try and stop the prophet veloth from leaving with his followers the velocity um who would become the you know the kaima um and then there's the things where it's like boethiah stabbed him or or maffala did it or or there was trickery involved but one of the the interesting things there too that that i just happen to like it's not necessarily super important but how boeithia um speaks almost like lovingly towards law khan and sort of ex or sort of calls out trinimac for like spreading lies about him basically and sort of like i forgot what the exact uh phrasing of the quote is um but yeah so anyway he they're they're unsuccessful at stopping the truth gets eaten you get malacath all that kind of stuff but then the climate go and leave to um to uh resdayne which then becomes morrow and later they get changed into the dunmo and the tribunal come about because of the heart of law khan but the central piece of their mythology is instead of having the best response to the sundering being tears and sadness and so on like trinimac they essentially believe that that you know law khan's realm and trickery and his prison that they've been put in is the ultimate test and the psijic endeavor is the path to enlightenment to to ascend beyond it through like you know your personal challenge and and such um and i mean in ways the tribunal kind of did that inadvertently way but you know um yes i think i think a nice quote involving that actually comes from sermon 10 of the 36 lessons of vivec where they refer to law khan as the frame maker yeah and it says we pledge ourselves to you the frame maker the scarab a world for us to love you in a cloak of dirt to cherish and the scat the scarab is a symbol of like law khan also comes up yeah house rhetorians thing is a symbol and i'm pretty sure that's the sixth house it's it's related um sort of uh symbology there as well but um i mean it's pretty straightforward we've talked at length about the the dunmer and the sigic endeavor and stuff before um it's but it's pretty straightforward in its most boiled down essence it is trying to more or less achieve kim or some form of transcendence and ultimately amaranthal and yeah and it does show the complexity of not simply following the aedra because even the even the daedra who are considered more malevolent have an essential role to play in this dunmer philosophy of the sydic endeavor like the house of troubles having you know um malacath be the test of physical strength share gaurav the test of mental and and mehrunes dagon is the elements and all these things are against you and molech belle if you take the like if you take the dark elf sort of like most basic thing from like dungeons and dragons and old stuff like doom and gloomy kind of stuff and like suffering and they've kind of taken that in the elder scrolls and and sort of changed a little bit and sort of made it like a suffering for enlightenment kind of philosophy but um i guess we should maybe mention the reachmen next just because it's more brief and it is also uh very similar in the same way that they view creation as sort of uh a place to sort of suffer in it like as a challenge to take care of their their idea is that there is namira the spirit queen of the dark the void and then basically you have lorc who is you know law khan and he comes to to namira and then wants to create this mortal realm but then he has to basically sacrifice himself to do it you know ripping of the heart yadda yadda um and then you've got um the mortal realm and then her scene actually becomes the the the lord of the flesh and the mortal realm and he's a far more important for the reachmen i i quite like how the creation story with the reachmen actually talks about lorke having this epiphany when he visited the darkness um that nothingness instead of viewing nothingness as nothingness it's like here's this space that's right for possibility and i almost like how you can imagine richmond could relate that internally to like you know how like men like you know people in life i've got no meaning or there's this hole in me or like you know there's a void but instead it's like seeing a void as like a a place to fill with meaning yeah yeah and like stuff like that it's just a it's just a cool way of looking at it um and also interestingly it make this law makes all the briar heart stuff way cooler um because you know when i was first playing skyrim and you see the hag ravens and the bright hearts i'm not thinking of lore khan yeah but now when i see it it's um you know that there's actually involvement uh in that ritual there's a video um at the start of this year that we've got on the channel that is about the sort of idea that bray hearts are a law kind of reenactment because if you were vision the hagravens are sort of because they've been often connected with namira um and that's maybe what warps their form and so on and if you if you sort of take that at face value um in that reenactment you've got you know the briar the potential briarheart being um like the law khan in the situation and you've got the hargraven being namira and then you know ripping out his heart to create something new and that's you know the big powerful bright heart yeah well like using the metaphor of a hole in the heart for like the physical challenges he represents it's like it is very literal across all kinds of cultures because you know just looking at uh to briefly dip back to shazaar um you know we're with pelinor who's considered to be an aspect of shazaar a um there's a line from the song of pelenol that says beneath the pelanal star armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart only a red rage shaped diamond fashion and then from the rimanada you've got alicia's description it says on her breast a wound that spilt void onto her mangled feet so it's always about a hole in the heart or a corruption of the heart or something missing yeah yeah and and and with the reachmen specifically as well they talk about how the bride hearts are actually in a state of suffering and constant pain but this transformation that they've gone through the the pain to do obviously is in the interests of protecting the clan yeah so it's like a worthy sacrifice for the rest yeah um but yeah so so hearts are a big uh core symbology well because i mean we could we can go to it now just sorry just just before we move on real quick little fun fact but the is it the totem of the hunt whichever totem is just the straight bone is um actually considered a shard of lorks ribs in richmond mythology yeah the totem of the hunt and it's said to be able to it called the wand of bone um said to be able to confound a target which you know any mortal like confused them like yes yeah just a interesting little tidbit before we move off reachman in thailand actually let let's i was going to say maybe let do you want let's do red guys so we we already we've talked about basically um sort of the core anewic and paramedic cultures of men and elves and then you've got the variation of the dark elves which is what would be what is just rare which you'd call padamaec elves like elves usually don't have that on the flip side for men red guards have an anuik the view of things and they they look at it as a big trick that happened um to them i feel like i've been dominating does anyone want to carry on with um the red guard well i want to find the exact source but you like uh because i'm just going off what i remember here but you've got um where when the when satacol the world serpent is eating itself you've got rupt girl tool papa who essentially is fulfilling the role of your auriel who has found a way to kind of walk sideways and and avoid um you know avoid destruction of the cell to exist through the cycles yeah whereas sep is like this sneaky serpent creature who has taken the detritus of old world skins and rolled it all together to create this kind of abomination that ends up becoming the mortal realm so it very much it's it's not you know specifically a trick but it's kind of a corruption is is how they perceive sep's role in this and so he's very much portrayed in a in a more negative light than rupture who is yes the the father i'll just grab i'll just grab the um the varieties of is it from the monometh i think there's parts in it there as well yeah i'll just read so oh let's just read it live word for verbatim so satak was the first serpent the snake who came before and all the world's to come rested in the glimmer of its scale so that's referring to like the cycles of the kalpa it's kind of satick or sate colors just essentially the singular embodiment of anu and padme in other mythologies but it was so big that there was nothing but and um nothing but and thus it was coiled around and around itself and the worlds to come slid across each other but had uh but none had room to breathe or even be and so worlds called to something to save them to let them out but of course there was nothing outside the first serpent so aid had to come from inside it this was a kel the hungry stomach aquel made itself known and satak could only think about what it was and it was the best hunger so at eight and eight soon there was enough room to live in the worlds and things began these things were new and they often made mistakes for there was hardly time to practice being things before so most things ended quickly or were not good or gave up on themselves some things were about to start but they were eaten up as satack got to that part of its body this was a violent time so pretty soon akhel caused satac to bite its own heart and that was the end the hunger though refused to stop even in death and so the first serpent shed its skin to begin anew that's the being the carpet cycles as the as the old world died satikal began and when things realized this pattern so did they realize what their part in it was they began to take names so this is the ata like rubska or tuwaka you know being akatosh or rk and they strode about looking for their kin as satykal ate itself over and over the strongest spirits learn to bypass the cycle by moving at strange angles they called this process the walkabout a way of striding between the world skins rugtag was so big that he was able to place stars in the sky so that weaker spirits might find their way easier this practice became so easy for the spirits that it became a place called the far shores a time of waiting to the next skin so it's kind of like they haven't got the there's not the negative perception at the moment it's almost like a little middle ground but there's cycles already happening for them in their sort of view of things and they're just looking for ways to escape it they use the walkabout and then basically these gods that are existing through the cycles of of the old world but rupture was able to sign many children he became known as tall papa um he continued to play stars in the void for others but after so many cycles there were almost too many spirits to help out and he himself um he made himself a helper from the detrious of past skins and this was sep or the second that's the one yeah i got that mixed up so sep himself was made from this detritus yeah absolutely and he's and he is lorkhan um so sepp had much of the hungry stomach still left him from saturkal so multiple hungers for multiple skins he was so hungry he could not think straight sometimes he would just eat the spirits he was supposed to help but tall papa would always reach in and take them back out finally tired of helping tall papa sepp went out and gathered the rest of the old skins and balled them up tricking spirits to help him promising them that this was how you reach the new world by making one of the old these spirits love this way of living it was easier than the walkabout so no more jumping from place to place many spirits joined in believing this was good thinking and tall papa just shook his head so i can kind of like what basically happens here is that um he makes an instagram instant gratification route of doing it the easy way and everyone's like yeah that sounds way better and um well i'll tell you what's really funny i don't know why i don't know if i'm mantling this this um this god but my stomach was just churning the whole time so he was so hungry he was so hungry and it's like vibrating and like all kinds of creation myths inside just to touch to the last part it may as well because we're there and it does like tie it up nicely but pretty soon the spirits on the skin ball okay the mundus have started to die because they were very far from the real world of satakal and they found that it was too far to jump into the far shores now the spirits that were left pleaded with tall papa to take them back but grim rupture would not and he told the spirits that they must learn new ways to follow the stars to the far shores now if they could not then they must live on through their children which was not the same as before okay like you know procreation um becoming mortals sep however needed more punishment and so tall puppers squashed the snake with a big stick and uh the hunger which is also some people connected to the adamantine tower so you know that's the one tower that exists at convention that's tall papa's stick going bang us squashing him that's nice so the hunger fell out of sep's dead mouth and the only thing um left of the and oh sorry the hunger fell out of sep's death and was the only thing left of the second um serpent and they referred believing that hunger is the heart of lorcan and so while the rest of the world was allowed to strive back to godhood sep could only slink around in a dead skin or swim about the sky a hungry void that jealously tried to eat the stars which is interesting like connecting that to the the serpent um star out of the star signs which just it doesn't have a particular month ordained to it it just sort of goes through and appears when so yeah even though it's dressed a different way that is is really similar to the high elven perspective of things so as you said it's very annoying and it is it kind of comes back to what we were discussing before about the potential of whether lorkhan could stay whole and the mortal realm still exist or if he's doomed to always lose and he's always going to be beaten but from the um yokudan perspective he's very conceptualization the moment he's born from that detritus he's he's made from dead skin he is dead yeah as well as this realm of his it is made from dead skins everything about it is dead so it's kind of unnatural in that sense that it's it goes against all the normal rules and you know and and what the spirits represent so that's kind of lorkhan's trick whereas i imagine if you approach humans or maybe dark elves it's not quite so um dark in nature lorkhan's role well if we want to throw in a curveball and go to high rock uh they actually have their own version um shior considered the bad man and this is quite interesting and i don't know if this concept this is just a theory if this would come from like when the elves were oppressing them oh for sure and it's like because because when you read it he is like a god of crop failure like i can just imagine them harvesting crops on the for that for their elven overlords and when there's a bad season they're like the elves tell them this is this is shaw's this is shaw's fault it's actually interesting too because that concept of sheol being being born there is this as sort of like you know spirit who just causes bad things to happen and like crop failure a majority of them you can imagine were just you know the servants or the basically the peasants of the durani who are so involved in crop making uh and like that's most of their job they don't have these all these other jobs so so that's why the crop failure stands out there as such he was said to be one thing born during the dark years after the fall of sarthal and uh also a lot of theologians agree he's like there's a demon obviously a demonized version of the nordic shore um it's interesting though and this is an elder scrolls online trinket thing um but there's these sculptures created by the britons needed ancestors that were found in glenumbra which paint what appears to be sure she or before he was villainized and pair him with mara however when i go and look at it it i don't know if it exactly says that manmer coupled idol and there's a few different people's perspectives on it like how often this figure of an elven woman bears hallmarks of old married depictions of mara but it's too rudimentary was it the work of a child that's needed sculpting actually devotional idols were common though i've never seen one depicting an elven divine before her pose suggests she's in a lover's embrace it's clear that there's another piece to this figure and then it says yes this new figure fits snugly with the mara but i never expected her lover to be a man is he meant to be law khan i don't think i've ever seen evidence of old mary culture being welcomed with such open arms literally but it's very theoretical i was thinking before actually that that it's interesting that um i was thinking before that you can you could potentially describe um annuit versus padme on the basis of the view of law khan but that's not necessarily true because it has to be mortality because it for example for the bretons she or is is well he's almost seen as different figures so it's not exactly fair but he is seen as a negative figure however they still kind of have the beliefs of of of men of being you know divinely created and all of that kind of stuff they don't have this very return to ancestor then again we might actually maybe there might be some more law added later or something or maybe back in the past they would have had more elven like pre-empire conquests they might have had a more elven view of things so so i was pretty much going to say exactly that elder scroll 6 might change something but as things currently stand the bretons have kind of always been done a bit dirty but it also makes sense like you know while while other races are having their existential conversations and they're thinking about the the the workings of the universe the bretton view of shore is just yeah it's as simple as crops that's all that really matters but but then when you kind of look at the origins of bretons which isn't super fleshed out but simply the fact that the durani elves took the best needs and decided to just breed them for fun it kind of strips them of any real ancestral history and folklore and mythology they're kind of just a mishmash of two things that they get separated from you know they don't really have any connection to what's durani and what's high elven and they don't really have that much of a connection to the needs they used to be so their view on god's act sure because it makes sense that it's pretty amazing what would happen to an what would happen to a breton uh if like creation was undone um i suppose a lot happening yeah what else but like yeah the one thing um what's interesting it's it's like brent's have no culture but like the durani essentially erased you know eventually would erase their native needy culture and so on but the human culture that they have came because of a colonialist empire that came in and sort of you know imperial cult flavored everything somewhat so it's just i'm sure there is like you know lots of hidden places that's something i hope they've seen we see in elder scrolls six that lots of like hidden little gods and like microcultures that have somehow thrived as so i was just going to say when my thoughts were going like how would you feel as a briton knowing that you have kind of elvish blood but also like you know you're you're a mix of of men and yeah i think it just comes down to the color and there's two perspectives i think it comes saying different things i think it comes down to the culture and the fact that they also consider themselves for the large part of their just men like they don't really they don't can like especially by the time of skyrim at least they took out so much of the elvish features and stuff like if you look at the concept art from the oblivion handbook that came with the game yeah they looked like way more like pointy eared yeah kind of you know elvish featured humans but they kind of just looked like pugs in the presets for skyrim i was not a fan they made them like i don't know if this ugly's not the right word but they kind of like made them all look like a kind of it's audits they gave them because i know across the stream they had these really deep forehead creases yeah and it's like i feel that's what skyrim's problem is they they gave a lot of the races like these essential features you can't change like bretons need forehead creases elves need these ridges here to do this and it's kind of like i don't know i'd like a little bit more custard like do you know what i mean but at least at least make it make sense like what about being a mix between an elf and a man means forehead wrinkles and that kind of big forehead vibe i don't know they're just yeah yeah but they're just frowning a lot because they're always thinking about their crops failing but also also to consider i wonder how much um uh you know because high rock's such a turbulent place politically you can also imagine it is a similar deal culturally and then you know around the reach like ideas of interesting actually they might look upon the reachmen you know obviously they do as beneath them and so on and so they might look upon their sort of view of law khan and stuff and they might further associate him negatively because you know they revere look as you know the creator of the world and everything so they might like look at it that would have helped their view of shield maybe like a negative view well the reachmen really you can make the argument that they're the only people in high rock that properly have their own true culture that has gone back a long time you know i mean i this is a i i could get roasted alive for making this comparison but i almost so far currently view high rock kind of like how i view the us in the real world is that it's a relatively new country where kind of like it prides itself on being able to mix you know cultures mix here and this is you know the land of the free or whatever and high rock is that's kind of their shtick as well let's find a hill become a king and it's not so much about your your ancestry and and the history that's been on this land and whatnot it's more about no this is my legacy now and you know i'm starting my i'm the beginning of this mythology kind of yeah you just you just don't really have that with just basic bretton interesting point you pointed out there too i don't know it just clicked for me then but but the reachmen um potentially having like a very straight line to their old religion basically but it's very danger influenced and i kind of wonder how many um day uh how many daedra were actually worshipped amongst nedic populations might be different names obviously not by the same understanding because remember to clarify for everyone aedra daedra is an elven definition aedra meaning our ancestors daedra meaning not our ancestors and if you also consider that really like men don't consider them their ancestors they consider the gods the aedra they're creators so even that doesn't really i'm while they still use the term as aedric it's not used in its like you know truest most i guess original definition by the races of um of man so basically it it can equalize the danger and adrenal plane that they're just all old spirits to them i guess some help with creation some didn't without like the elven influence on the on the religion but um yeah so maybe there's some really cool stuff with with the needs um early needed tribes and stuff they might have had more of a mix like other cultures um you know especially because um you know in the same way that the dark elves view the day during very but they're also same quite pro lore khan and and but yeah anyway um let's i suppose we should probably move to the kitchen it just feels right that we have to move to the kijit who have low cars and i guess in their culture he's very much more involved with the moons like he's considered a moon prince well let's let's hit khajiit then we'll do address the sort of luna lorcan thing and then we'll finish off with the mythic dawn commentaries that's what i've been holding off on the whole yeah let's all right like and then there was such a perfect segue after what you were saying but i'm like oh i have to hit the kg yeah well one segway that we did have to the khajiit was when we were talking about the kind of hole in the heart idea you know um i mean with the khajiit there are there are elements of of multiple pantheons you can kind of like find similarities with but just to give the general gist you've got anur and fatimah who give birth to their litters of what are the atarda the the original spirits the gods and the final cat of the litter to be born was lorcaj who was born at a time where anu discovered fatamai giving birth when he didn't want any more children so she fled to the great darkness namira and gave birth to him there and his heart was then corrupted by namira by the great darkness which azura then needed to purge from him tear out and fling away so you can kind of see similarities to a lot of other cultures and views of lorcan there it's interesting because i don't know how they i i guess would they fall more under the anuik or panamek it's very hard to like it's very thin line it's the store this the creation story is kind of annuity but the the importance of figures like azura mafala and bowethra to them are very similar to the dunmer like i i generally consider their pantheon to be closest to the dunmer even though there are storm there are strong like original elven elements there as well yeah because they can't yeah yeah definitely because they also i mean another another big thing too with the padme anu which often happens is um you know there's a tendency towards aedra or daedra on that kind of thing whereas whereas the khajiit really don't really acknowledge aedra daedra at all really they kind of they they seem to see a lot of um i'm pretty sure there's a reference that they refer to as several daydreas ancestor spirits and so on but so did the dunmer as well actually i like the ancestor and so on but actually i think i've said it on the podcast before but there's a line from haskell that i quite like when talking about the khajiit because he says i've never liked cats personally well actually that's irrelevant but that's a bit mean but i suppose because they're inexplicable and unpredictable i'm told the khajiit revere both the aedra and the daedra worshipping whichever divine seems most applicable to whatever they're praying for or swearing by but then to a cat immediate personal convenience is everything um in fact you're not paying attention anymore that's literally what he says but um basically he he's saying that it's wise that the cats don't really bother to draw these kind of unimportant distinctions they worship who is relevant to whatever they're worshipping it sounds similar to the aylids in a way but obviously very different because the aylids would have been hyper aware of distinctions but just chosen to give in to the temptations whereas khajiits feel a lot more just there there's no oh let's worship him for this immense personal gain or because of some sadistic pleasure it's just very much like we appreciate this aspect of life and we think it's best personified by this daedra and so you know we worship him or her yeah i think i mean we'll we've got a khajiit episode at some point to go out to a traffic light i was going to say yeah but um i i guess do we want to address this uh lunar lorcan stuff because it's it's debated isn't it and i i think from emory i'm not a giant fan of the idea of the theory that the bodies of the the the moons are the bodies of lorcan kind of especially since he uh isn't um isn't uh he you know his heart is has been found and al also isn't it uh they also joan and joad are explicitly you know known as god yeah and that's why i don't buy i don't buy the lunar lorcan theory it basically just says that the moons master and secunda are two halves of lor khan's quote flesh divinity um and then um there's also the i mean there's the dark heart and all of that yeah i mean i feel like the luna lorcan theory kind of predated any of the khajiit stuff relating to joan and joad i could be wrong about that but i feel like that's that's because they also believe that the sort of um the dark moon is the den of the sort of behind joan jo but so they think that's his corpse basically i think the theory of the luna lorcan it's like it's most valuable is just a metaphor to kind of ex he's sundering and he you know the cycle the cycles of the moons is important in maintaining you know not not just life on tamriel but the tides and whatnot so the idea that he was sundered split apart and his heart was taken out it would be pretty easy to make the assumption that all those two moons up there those are his body doing you know walking as kind of the red guards say he's just doomed to walk around um the the you know and and witness his creation but be unable to take take part in it anymore but i don't yeah i don't think it really holds water it gets a bit cash out it gets a bit confusing because it's like an eclipse between two moons that create what they call a third moon being the dark moon yeah and then that represents some kind of duality between they're missing godzilla remember for everyone listening like this everything here is all a mythological take on lorcan like even the the elven story which is often taken as the most sort of like dominant or popular one i guess that people generally talk about when they're talking about it because i i think it's mainly because it's very neat and cohesive but but a lot of the others there's lots of contradictions that aren't necessarily less valid or anything like that it's just what's the dominant um belief or what you see in most the books and so on and so obviously in sort of you you know you can you like we sort of did with with the the moon theory we don't really think it stacks up or like you can go with shior like appearing after um after southall and so on and so you can kind of look at some versions of laura khan as more of a like a caricature of of a existence in mythology of like shaw or something you know what i mean but they they change and when when gods change their cultural interpretation often their history can change too so yeah anyways let's anyway hit the mundus is lorkhan's realm and he's a daedric prince it's not really that bold of a claim no it's not because especially when it when we just mentioned before it it's not essential to really draw strong distinctions between the daedra and the aedra you know um obviously they're involved their involvement in creating the realm would kind of make lorkhan and aedra by pure definition but you know all realms of oblivion um all realms in general are pockets of something in the void and that's exactly what mundus is and it was lorkhan's idea it was just as i as i said a group project rather than an individual one so but then they would all be in that realm as planned well yeah yeah exactly mankind's assertion is that they're they're these acolytes who usurped the mundus from him and took it from him so then would they be daedra because that's the thing of the distinctions don't matter they're just dead i'd say that yeah i'd say they're whatever you want to call them usually yeah yeah um i mean it's a simple concept i i like how you've talked about this before drew how when you look at the kind of the ideas of afterlife between um you know daedra and mortals they're very similar anyway they use different words and you know mortals procreate with each other whereas daedra you know they they don't breed physically but when when a mortal dies and their spirit goes into the dream sleeve and then comes back or a daedric dies and they don't have a a soul but they have like a a vestige which goes back into the chaotic creation it all you know mixes around in some big plasm and then they get reborn as well like the whole concept is is not too different if you just look at it from an outside perspective and not that of purely immortal where this is my thing and that's their weird thing i think it sounds the same i think any um it's the mortal misunderstanding or like not knowledge of oblivion realms and because they're so potentially complex and different and so little exposure that they can't see the similarities but you know even if you were to look at shivering aisles it's like you know it's civilization civilization when you shield and everything something a little bit more tangible for immortal to understand but is it so impossible that it's this entire you know ecosystem like mundus that's just sitting out there in the void like everywhere else so i find mankind's motives are kind of hard to pin down but it does in a way come back to our discussion before about um how it would work if the cycle starts again and lor khan brings back his armies and wins this time is that that's almost seems like what mankind gets at because the whole idea is to bring back mehrunes dagon to achieve new manchester which is liberty it's freedom like league was destroyed and torn apart and the whole realm was undone and league was a parallel place to tamriel to mundus so the idea is to undo mundus and kind of start again and you know there's a line here which i mean i'd be interested to hear what you think but there's a line that specifically refers to the usurper which everyone assumes is the the cameron usurper in his like tear across the west coast of tamriel but it says even the usurper went under the iliac before he rose up again to claim his fleet um and i i see the usurper that that's to me that's talking about um law khan coming again to win the fight the second time like that that's kind of just a you know i haven't thought too much about that idea but if you went under the iliac it's almost like the red guards with the with tall papa's stick stabbing him in the heart at convention in the iliac bay so he lost that battle against auriel and trinimac and the idea is i'll make this unmake this world where lor khan lost and remake it remake his daedric realm where he is the god king of his realm and no one's gonna usurp it from him absolutely yeah yeah a lot of crap going on there no i i i i i think it's an easy i think it's an interesting um take of it i do still think that it's probably just because of the him being main card cameron and the cameron usurper and and using the ilia i don't know iliac specifically it just makes me think of like it's very like geographical and modern astrology for sure but um but yeah no no it's um but yeah okay here's the question if if mankind really though wanted to undo mundus how does his paradise play into all of that like if if he wants to kind of undo it or would he just be staying in his paradise or would would things start again in a new reality where like you're saying law can't i currently i can't remember is this paradise not like sort of a place for the followers to like sort of exist while mayor and day go and screw up until they go there in bed they go there yeah and and but it's it's interesting when you look into the theories that bangkok cameron could be an alien or fashioned himself to be one or whatever that he designed his paradise and of course they could just be reusing in-game assets but to be this alid paradise you know an untouched ayleid ruined paradise it looks all beautiful and he's got his throne there that he rules from and a statue today gone out the front and he brings his um children there maybe maybe it's perhaps using mayor and uh maybe the whole concept behind myron's dagon is because perhaps if you look at law khan is is doomed to fail as part of the cycle for the existence perhaps or like it's part of the is earping on maybe that mehrunes dagon kind of might succeed in the next run where he may fail and restore the sort of the problem with with the problem with dagon though is that he's a god of revolution and so he wants to turn as drew said once turned the hourglass upside down so if lorkhan's on top i feel like just by dagon's nature he'd want to overthrow that just because it's a thing to overthrow and i'm a god who shakes things up he's not like molag bao where he's like okay i'm on top this is how i want to be and i just rule and dominate everyone like there's this kind of like you can't have ambition if you're already just in such a totalitarian like domineering state where you've already won as a as a sort of like a wrap-up thing i just cause i'm just trying to like think about it about the cycles and about the idea that that law khan's death or like destruction or defeat or whatever might be an essential part of the cycles but i'm on like maybe that's just purely a mythological view but i just don't see how it exists without his uh death i don't know maybe it's just purely just because all of the mythologies seem to say so i guess even the the yokudan one is a little bit more abstract but yokun one's the only one that i think that's outside of it because it sort of asserts that the cycles and worlds are kind of beginning before seps or lorkhan's involvement so it's kind of who makes an alternative world i don't i don't want to confuse things more but i'm going to in in saying that like i mean this is what i love about the older scrolls is that um you can't truly rely on anything so one thing i'll say about that is you know there may be evidence to prove that he does have to die for it to happen in which case you know i'll stand corrected but an interesting thing to think is that all of the mythologies that we've read through or that we know about this world they're going to be documented by inhabitants of this calper of this cycle it's the history is the history of what happened this time next time if shaw comes back with his army and fights auriel and his elven army the the mythologies could be completely different because the dawn time is where everything takes shape um and i mean just just a hit on what you were saying about his alien origin he's like this contradicts the idea that he actually did want to do what he wanted to give lorkhan back his daedric realm but at the same time if he is an alien and he hates men and he wants revenge for the for the slave rebellion then he might simply want revolution purely to end lorkhan's creation and send the elves back to to auriel which he would believe if he was an alien and lived in a some like it lived in somerset and lived in an elven society so god yeah like i still i don't even know his motives as much as i love his character the the only reason i think maybe that i lean more towards that there is some sort of like essential component of of the cycle of that you know the cycle repeats itself that there's the destruction and it um and of you know it's technically oriole or aldo and whatever that the end part of whatever you want to call it brings it back to the dawn the only reason i guess i think of that sort of endless cycle um is because of the the whole path to kim kind of stuff and all of that sort of purpose the idea that if you just you know just to remember the layers and ana panama is here but then the god heads here and you kind of want to get there but to go down further with the smaller derivatives can then go back up whereas if you sort of stay as a as a god just your concepts there they might be more limited or something because you i don't know it's it's whack but do you know what i mean like because there's a lot of i mean we can kind of briefly and we probably should it's just touch on cesarean so there's this idea that there are these avatars that are essentially living components because we look at you know you look at law khan um heart of lokan he's dead god and all that kind of stuff but there's these ideas that there is cesareans which are avatars of him that are sort of existing living components that somewhat embody parts of him there's interesting stuff there and we don't get a lot of answers because like you know palin all when when someone um called him shaw i think or using them i can't remember but he gets that person gets smothered with ancestor moths and so on and there's kind of some interesting hidden stuff going on there and there's the is that that the last dragonborn is a cesarean and that's why you know you fight alduin and you actually stop the cycle from ending and you keep it um you keep mortality going um there's also the idea that uh that schulte early beard and so on and everyone uh zurin arctus and izmi woolfarth were all shazzarines and they together when their souls joined became one a sort of almost reincarnation of law khan or some form of consciousness being talos but that's also another whack idea that needs a lot of stitching but yes so cesare schezerein's avatar of it comes from the word shazar as just an alternative name for khan what's with kirk bride's list of uh shazarines that have like the letters of lorcan i think that's next to them yeah because it's not it's not like an acrostic poem like it's woolfarth l guilty o izmir like it's like i don't know where it comes from and then after after six type of septum a there's the letter n which i'm guessing is like the mathematical like you know like the nth degree like n just an endless series of um of of possible shazarinese shazarines i don't maybe yeah maybe it's that fine unspecified yeah it could be the you know this this theory of the the you know there will come a shazarine who you know because the cesareans carry out law khan's will the one who succeeds in finally stopping the cycle because i get i guess as you were saying is that for the if the cycle exists that's akatosh or auriel winning because you know you have the the beginning the end at the beginning middle and end and then the cycle starts anew whereas if lorcan ever were to win he would never allow for the cycle to end it'd go on forever and his you know this iteration of the mortal realm would be infinite because he would stop the potential of aldewin eating the world and beginning it again yeah but yeah i wonder if there's any interesting not like there's not a lot to go on but just you know the whole premise there of alduin anyway is in skyrim storyline they send him forward in time because he was supposed to end the world but he doesn't and sort of dominates but then they send him then he i guess he's decided he's going to pull it in time yeah send him forward in time to prolong the cycle and you know he's come late basically i don't wonder if there's any sort of anything you can pull from that maybe that previous cycles did sort of end much shorter already mm-hmm that they were generally worse shorter and it's going to come back in order there's all there's also there's also the um the the moments i think where there might be some interesting clarity is in dragon breaks well not clarity that's like the antithesis of a dragon break but let's but in the moments with uh izmir woolfarth and wolf secret song and so on and going like oh don't you know what this uh really is or what we're really fighting on so on it's all hinting at a larger metaphysical thing in relation to sure and what the purpose of the um the realm is and all that kind of stuff um but it's just interesting that dragon breaks would be the one time i guess in the cycle and the flow of time that there is sort of a way to conceptualize outside of it does that make sense like for the characters really like because because time's broken at that mm-hmm yeah i don't know i think that maybe that needs to be a little more uh cooked up but ideally well i i think we've come to the end of the law khan podcast we could probably just keep theorizing yeah and stuff otherwise it'll it'll go forever which lorkhan would want it to go forever perhaps the cycle is going to start again next week with the next step all right well thank you everyone for tuning in as always social media links are in the description if you're interested as is a link to buy our merch if you want to get a sick fudge muppet tea and help support the podcast and we'll look forward to nerding out with you again next week

Channel: FudgeMuppet

Views: 75,322

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Id: 3aH147iXHy0

Length: 70min 29sec (4229 seconds)

Published: Sun Aug 15 2021