The Lady of Shadows, Nocturnal | The Elder Scrolls Podcast #14

[Music] what is up ladies and gentlemen welcome back to fudge muppet i'm scott and i'm here with michael and drew as always and today's elder scrolls podcast is all about nocturnal so resident daedrologist drew take it away i was about to dab but i don't want that on video nocturnal is the patron of thieves she's the queen of night shadows and plunging necklines and she's the prince of darkness but i think it's important immediately to distinguish that her darkness is very different to the idea of like the void you know namira's void her darkness is like a tool it's like hiding in the shadows so that's kind of a distinction between the two she's very popular which is a bit ironic given that she's the patron of thieves but at the same time if you're gonna have shrines to her they're generally like hidden away or something like that um and yeah so her like relationship with mortals i find is very kind of almost transactional it's like she benefits from them they benefit from her they're like associates you know kind of like the nightingales but um yeah that's generally nocturnal and we'll get into detail on all of those things actually if i remember correctly in your video on nocturnal you said to understand her as futile because she's about mystery and like it defeats the point to understand her and then you said i've been drew from fudge muppets see you later and then you put like proper 10 seconds of music fade out and then just continued on like normal yeah where do you go from the stuff yeah but yeah for sure and that is one of the most interesting things about nocturnal like i just said is that to understand her kind of defeats the point of her like she is the mystery you know what i mean you're not meant to understand nocturnal but in this podcast we're gonna uncover that mystery and uh make her very upset yeah well i guess well we can start like you were bringing up with uh her being transactional and she's popular i mean there's lots of thieves so there's lots of people that would benefit from like that sort of transactional use of like luck or power or whatever because it's kind of the power can be vague it doesn't have to be a sort of like here's a daedric artifact or a specific blessing in the same way that the thieves guild and skyrim was flourishing when nocturnal's luck was sort of affecting the guild as a whole um but then obviously that went away for reasons we can get into later but um a big distinguishing thing i i think is important like you were sort of saying with the darkness and void and her not being the literal like nothingness void or so on the darkness a way to sort of think about it too and i wonder if we could kind of connect it to shadow magic but how shadow magic is like um what it's kind of the idea that shadows appear in conflict so you've got like the light and a physical object or something but it's not just in that conflict there's a shadow of all conflict whether that be like wars or even plots and and stuff like that whether she might um so you can kind of expand that sort of shadows into a lot of things in like even like conspiracy sort of stuff it doesn't have to be just quite literally you know shade from the sun kind of thing in in encapsulated within a sphere and that ties in also to plots that she's gone ahead and with the clockwork city and the crystal tower which we can go more into but she um she is not a good person she is very self-interested she wants what she wants she doesn't cooperate well with others and um or at least she pretends to and then and then betrays them but that sort of transactional mindset some people i don't know at least i got the oppression earlier in like skyrim and stuff you're kind of like oh you know azura as long as we're like good to her and like i'm nightingale like you know she's good she's good after all she want but she she's not she's like she's very bad she's trying to like you know rewrite reality with the heart of transparent law and and then make it make herself infinite she's very self-involved i mean like that's all daedric princes so you can't be too surprised but i guess yeah but it is the image that she gives out i 100 agree it gives out this very like you don't have to worship me you know i'll just bless you with luck you know respect me um but don't worship me like a traditional daedric prince you know kind of wants worship which is interesting because it makes you wonder about the idea actually of worship and power levels you know how there's this idea that the more worship a daedric prince gets the more power they get there's not many people worshiping nocturnal in the traditional sense but i suppose the sense that in which they revere her must add to her power because she is extremely powerful yeah i feel like it's very personal it's like a it's like a thief kind of like quietly praying for some luck before they pull off a job rather than a you know a big like a big gathering of people all praising praising nocturnal out loud so it's it's much more subtle but still potent and there have been there have been examples of her being worshipped that there were the the witches in the purloined shadows story where her cow gets stolen from her um they're worshiping her and so forth and she's said to like that you know but i think that's because they're kind of um stroking her ego a bit about how great she is and you know dancing around singing whatever they do before she loses her cow yeah i think i mean we'll talk more about it soon but i i think she almost kind of likes people stealing from her in a weird way it's almost like it's you know i think some thieves actually do it as a means of proving themselves to her is to even attempt to steal something from her which uh you know is unusual but kind of makes sense in a weird way but i'll just say this now and and and it's kind of goes on to what scott was saying about her not being nice but if she wants people to steal from her it's kind of like that thing like um de los or deryloth however you want to pronounce that the the girl he brings with him is used as a distraction right and nocturnal catches her and basically like her shadowy like shadows come out and in velvet and killer or whatever but the cow still gets the curse put on it you know so it's kind of like oh if you get caught i'm gonna kill you if you succeed like good for you but instead it was like oh you succeeded but like ha ha i'm gonna curse you or i'm gonna curse this cow so there was still a negative aspect to succeeding in stealing from her well i love the curse of that cow specifically is really cool like i know we're going to talk about the great cal but i just love the idea that you know like a lot of i think a lot of thieves they want to go down in history as like an incredible burglar or something like that but specifically this one it's like no you will be the best thief around but you will never ever be remembered you won't be like rajin who becomes like a god hero of the khajiit you'll just be forgotten um yeah it's interesting too that nocturnal in a lot of her actions she kind of does embody the sort of the thief dynamic because she is a thief in certain mythologies quite literally like in um khajiit mythology it's implied that the skeleton key once belonged to azura and that nocturnal came along and and she stole that and and ran away and took it off back into the void and like it's just and then also i mean all of the kind of backstabbing and stealing she does with the triad like do you wanna let's i'll bring that up let's talk about what exactly she did so in the second era this is the eso um uh events um of the morrowind expansion sorry the clockwork city it's kind of connected to the morrowind dlc as well but it feeds into the clockwork city and then into the summerset isles it's sort of like a continuing sort of storyline that there's a triad of nocturnal clavicus violent mephala and they decided to get together and they're going to hatch a little master plan here and then so nocturnal creates a shadow of of sothosil and and manipulates things and tries to get the gets her hands on the skeleton key um and using or using all of that it was basically she's trying to get to um ultimately this plot she ends up a trained clavicus file and miphalla which in the summerset isle stuff and she's using the secret she stole from sothosil this is from memories hold on the secret she stole from so facile and she's going to use that to affect the heart of transparent law which is the heart of the crystal tower and she wants to use that to reshape reality and make herself an infinite being um and then obviously she you know she she betrays my father and clavicle to do that and then you sort of help mephala a bit and clavicus file to sort of get back at her and stop her and obviously it doesn't happen but nocturnal's intention there is completely self-involved through everyone else under the rug and she just wants to create to make herself infinite and it well first thing i think it's hilarious that of all the daedric princes to a lion you've got dodgy deals you've got like the the mother of betrayal and assassination all of this stuff and then nocturnal and nocturnal's the one who screws them over as well but and there's a quote from so vasil that says imagine a daedric prince who can exert influence throughout the multiverse at the exact same moment in time nocturnal could become infinite so my interpretation of that was it's almost like she wants to become more than just daedra it's like she wants to have influence in a furious as well like to break out from oblivion and kind of become such a an infinite being that she's almost like as aedric as she is daedric but it's kind of it's a weird area to try and broach it's kind of like a kind of weird not not uh kim kind of thing but it kind of seems like a like becoming infinite but like consuming everything within the godhead kind of kind of thing going on and no no wonder she failed i mean making the deal with clavicus far what can you expect of course he's going to get the player character involved and it's not all going to happen yeah playing character p man yeah exactly yeah it's a good story but i i do like how it expands on her a bit more and makes her less of a um just i'm a thief god but she's way more malevolent i don't think she's a i wouldn't worship her well i think yeah it's the same as meridia like people tend to see meridia as one of those daedric princes that are oh they're one of the nice ones and it's like no they're really not yeah i think eso did a great job with nocturnal because um especially in the khajiit myths is that you really do flesh her out so you know you've got the idea that she's born from the black blood of lorkhas at the steps of the void gate so even though we've said you know she's not kind of she's not the great darkness like namira you know because shadows you can't have shadows in just pure darkness but she's still made from darkness she's kind of a meshing of the two so there is the the kind of malevolent side of her the one that can't be trusted so she's not all good you know it's cool but then she does have an interesting relationship with thieves still like at least carly describes her as more like a like a tough mother who cares about her kids type thing so you do get yeah you get both you know you get elements of the light and the dark i guess we can kind of talk about that a bit more too we could kind of go into the the nightingales and um and and their purpose and everything which can then we can then segue further so i guess the nightingales are basically uh thieves who have entered a pact with nocturnal to basically forever and eternally guard the gate um the what is it called the ebony mere which is the gate to the evergloam so you can get get in there and they're also supposed to guard the skeleton key as well um and even in death they'll remain as nightingales guarding that so that there's a little uh little interesting pact there but it's very i feel like it favors nocturnal more i mean look the thieves get some luck and they get there to go and like you know steal heaps of riches and stuff like that but i don't know to me that sounds like a kind of a bad deal because then i just have to be stuck in the twilight zephylka or whatever it was called and then be like a ghost nightingale guarding it for all of time yeah because you're when the nightingale dies right and goes to the realm doesn't their kind of thiefy essence become part of the or like a crew into the luck and the shadows that like kind of leak out and help other thieves yeah yeah in essence the idea is that they can can kind of bestow luck onto other other thieves further down the line but it it does like yeah it seems counterintuitive for a thief to want to sign up for a lifelong pact and then what an eternity long pact because thieves at the very core are selfish you know it's like you make a deal but you do it because you want something in return you know i feel like it'd be much easier to just get a job instead of being a thief like there's a yeah i mean at least you might go to some form of heaven or whatever or you could pursue some other you know but not all thieves have to become nightingales no no i just mean the ones that the ones that do i mean there's only three at any given time right yeah it's like a trio yeah yeah and and they get the you know the agent the agent of of stealth chaos and subterfuge yeah i guess today you get different powers it's like a superhero game yeah and then you've got nocturnal who's got all her different titles which all sound like superheroes but it's only a superhero game because it's got a cape and it's a cool mistress of a mystery but you do kind of get immortalized as like a great thief if you become a nightingale it's like the opposite of if you achieve it with a cow you know there's yeah so you know you give your eternity to nocturnal but eternally you're an amazing thief to be fair though i'm pretty sure a lot of thieves they don't even know about the nightingales they're almost like not real to the common thief or like your real common member of the thieves guild you know and then like they could be used as like a as like a scary tactic as like oh do what we say or you know you'll have the nightingales to deal with but i feel like a lot of the time it's just they're not really given much attention i guess that is the deal it does seem like a bad deal it seems like a bad deal to me that is the deal with nocturnal and thieves i guess is that it's you know it's in the shadows it's not like really out there and everyone knows about it so you know just like how nocturnal isn't really worshipped that much in public if you become a nightingale you yeah maybe i'm wrong maybe you just get forgotten what about what about jaeger than because he was said to be a nightingale so he's not that so originally in arena law he was called a nightingale so on i mean he was supposedly that nightingale that basically uh seduces baron zaire and knocks her up but more current law is it was draven i think it's draven indoril who was doing it for jay garthan um so he um and then he knocked up baron zara and then that's why generations down you've got carlyle being descended from berensei and that was like to do with the arena plot because he was getting the business staff of chaos or something but um since we're on the topic of nightingales anyway and they're they're guarding the ebonmir which is the portal to um the evergloom let's uh let's talk about the evergloom okay well i know the portal at least you need the skeleton key to kind of like keep open and that also keeps the luck flowing out um that that that is why the thieves guild had bad luck yeah because the key was taken do we even have is there even a description of the evergloam because there's more i feel like there's more on the um the pocket realms of the everglades than there actually is on the everglade i mean the other one itself there's a perpetual twilight that's pretty cool but still there's nothing much going on on it because i think we've only ever seen there's this place called the shadow cleft yeah which is like described as a bit of the shadow but let's talk about the other ones there's everglow big shadow realm and there's things from there right yeah so there's different pocket realms so you've got shade perilous and crow's wood crow's wood is the one that is has a bit of meme value at least to me because it's filled with talking crows see i i really like this so the crow's word then it has the black feather court which is this is led by the duke of crows and and they all of these sort of they're like daedra crows but i like how there's actually like a living place for the crows that are seen with nocturnal and associated with her so they are like these sort of sentient beings it gives me similar vibes to um you know odin even his depiction with the the ravens like that i'm a big fan i'm a big fan of bravery that are seeing so so i just kind of like that it gives them a bit of a personality because it's very easy to look at all of these daedra with their like minions and see them as very disconnected it's like oh this is just the enemy they send out but it's the same as we see with you know shay gorath and his um you know certain danger and so on they're kind of inbuilt into the to the civilization of the shivering isles in the same way that he that even the crows have sort of have like a sentience and and are built into this sort of little there's some society i was going to say there's some cool crow based creatures as well like a wraith of crows it's kind of like it's hard to describe but it's almost like a hagraven but a crow being used as the bird and then the fate the face looks different the face is like a crow's basically had with a big beak but i think a wraith of crows is a really really cool kind of daedric crow-like entities see i hate the wraith of crows because uh i mean you might remember this this is a very anecdotal but we were in the office trying to get oh well i was trying to get all the footage for the clockwork city video and i fought against the ray for crows and i'm fairly sure you were like watching over my shoulder as i did it i killed the thing and then the game just completely bugged out there was no way to advance the quest line i just remember you calling me over every time i had a boss i couldn't do it and i was like all right and then i just get it okay no so with that it was fighting against the shadow of sofa sil and i was way under leveled because i was just grinding through it to get to the end of the dlc and you're like all right let me have a go let me have a go and the second you take the controller something like level 90 dude rolls in one shot and you're like boom easy boys easy that's not what happened it's pretty much i i took off half the health before he got just firing at the same time as this level no no no no no the reason is because i just figure out how to cheese it i don't try and do it legitimately yeah you just made any really powerful friends all right nerds let's let's um so we were just talking about that let's talk about the so there's the crows and the crow danger right let's talk about the nocturnal shrikes which in previous games have just been referred to as lesser or greater nocturnals but nocturnal shrikes to distinguish them all are these sort of uh these daydream women they basically look like topless women or they put like a little bikini thing on or they're wearing hair over their tits like you know um and i do like they've been described with um like beautiful voices and stuff as well like singing i forget which book it was but there was a there's a book that sort of mentioned that they just have like these sort of like beautiful voices and stuff as well but yeah so they're scantily-clad tall beautiful women that are actually um quite powerful and um i like the little ad that like though prone to bouts of debilitating melancholy and that's kind of like a i don't know i i just feels very on theme for nocturnal i can i can imagine like just all of a sudden just get hit with a wave of depression just like the depressing danger in the shadows it's like very emo yeah for sure what what other um entities does she have i know the maz can have have served her before yeah but they've served plenty like i i think i think i think it's outside the ones that are kind of her signature ones are the nocturnal shrikes and the um and the crows but yeah they are they are an interesting bunch but i don't know if there's all too much to say though there is i think uh a uh i think it's i think this is the one where there's a lesbian relationship i've seen one of the earliest examples of an lgbt thing in elder scrolls and um it's i think it's the jc or morgan chick who was in a relationship with yeah one of them was another series was it or it was so it was something like that i can't i can't actually remember so she because she went into a melon during the event of battlespar i'm trying to remember it without getting anything wrong but meyron's dagon's hordes essentially screwed screwed them over she went into a melancholy so she wasn't really doing anything to protect her pocket realm and then her apprentice essentially tries to get her to wake up from this so the only way to do it was to sacrifice herself so that she snapped out of it and actually fought for her realm so that's kind of you know that's pretty sweet and it's awesome was it sorry go michael you oh i was gonna say there's more creatures than the ones we talked about there's the gloam knights who look incredibly creepy nicknamed the shadow of nocturnal and there's also the grievous twilights which are like massive winged kind of beasts although they often serve molag bao so i think the gloam knight is a probably highly specific yeah because isn't it something um actually i want to look at because i can't remember from memory it was something like a uh isn't it like a deceased yeah like her servants or worshipers can become gloam knights in the evergloam i think they're wraith-like creatures incapable of feeling sympathy embodiments of hate and mystery hmm they can have two to six arms see i i just this is sort of like kind of like the redeem you thinking about the redeeming things of nocturnal or sorry the lack of redeeming things like she's a thief and stuff but then it's like oh here's her globe knight's embodiments of hate and mystery and here and and it's a follower of hers like sorry nocturnal may transform her followers into glum knights upon their death so yeah yeah the hate thing seems you know especially because it's eso that's building her up to be slightly more you know complex so you know the idea that the embodiment of hate seems a bit i don't know doesn't seem fitting but there you go i wouldn't want to become one personally no imagine being a thief and you serve nocturnal and then you become a gloam knight yeah i i don't know if i if i vibe that but let's start talking then about her artifacts because that's some of the most i think that's what really makes a lot of people besides double d's i think i think it's really is the artifacts that make us so interesting to a lot of people 100 100 so there's the grey cowl of nocturnal which in oblivion looks kind of hilarious on the grey fox like as a kid when i played oblivion and i met the grey fox for the first time i was like oh my gosh this is the coolest thing i want to wear that mask that's the best i was just going to say a funny story about that because you first it's in it's in a broomer house i think it's the first yeah you meet him in the yeah bottom level i feel like i can even remember my like cognitive dissonance like in my head i was like oh this kind of looks shitty but then i'm like oh no that's so cool it's a great box now this is cool this is cool and i'm like swept up in the like all of it but i'm like kind of at the back of my mind still like oh it looks a little different than i thought like it looks a little different than it does on the posters like you know what i mean yeah it's just it looks a lot better um when you go to mercer's freight mercer phrase place in skyrim and you find the bust it just looks like it's stylized a little bit more you know it looks a little bit more like something batman could wear and a bit less like a i don't know a gray leather condom basically it's true but with a daedric down the middle um but yeah so this was basically nocturnal's cow i can't imagine nocturnal wearing it it would look kind of funny um but yeah so basically it says yeah it says shadow hide you um in the daedric text down the middle which is something that the thieves in the thieves guild especially say to each other sometimes out of reverence for nocturnal or sometimes as kind of just like a you know literally shadows hide you good luck thieving type thing the interesting thing about the mask as we were kind of saying at the start is that it strikes your name from history so at least it did before the curse was removed with an elder scroll that was stolen during the events of oblivion so the original curse is basically that no one knows who you are once you put on the mask your identity is destroyed you are the grey fox this immortal figurehead super thief you know hated by the imperial watch and the nobility loved by thieves and beggars but who you are ceases to be and kind of histories rewritten so that you never existed the memories of you in the minds of others are gone and it kind of seems to be a thing that applies even if you kind of like from the second you wear it because you know the grey fox took it off and then he's still like the um what's it called he's he's at the the forge of guy anvil as well like he was that the guy that the stranger or whatever the guy oh sorry that forger i thought you were talking about the blacksmith dude no no i was like what yeah the stranger you meet yeah so even without it he's still even if he took it off and he's like no no it's me it still doesn't work because the curse is kind of on you when you've put it on yeah so his name just becomes a stranger it changes later to the stranger little easter egg for you but yeah a little bit a little bit of knowledge you didn't know um but yeah so that's corvus umbrenox so he was the count of anvil and the countess is alone and he has stood before her without the mask on and said it's me corvus and she just kind of looked at him confused or didn't she left him on scene yeah she just she didn't get it at all um until you go and steal an elder scroll which is one of the best missions in any elder scrolls game right the ultimate heist and you rewrite history so that the cow never had this curse and the thieves guild flourished because of that and then you eventually get made the grey fox and you can wear the cowl but it doesn't strike your identity so when you're not wearing it um you're just you but when you are wearing it it still retains the benefits you're still the grey fox you can it's like playing peekaboo with a child with the guards you can just put put it on they'll come to arrest you just whip it off really quick and they'll just get confused so you can basically accrue any bounty or infamy you want to the grey fox you can do anything you want you could walk up to someone put them have the mask on kill them and take the mask off and you would be completely fine and one of the cool things about it is you've got to think like compared to other daedric artifacts they don't hide your identity so if you've got some god-like powers you could still be killed whereas with the cow you you do get um super thieving and like stealth abilities and stuff which is cool but you could just kill someone conventionally and take the cow off and you're not going to ever be hunted down because no one knows who you are yeah i i do i really do like that unique in the fact that it kind of creates like a transient sort of identity for the gray fox so that the grey fox can be this sort of figure that you know some people might like oh is this this immortal grey fox because they've been around for so long or or stuff like that but rather it is just multiple wearers of of the mask that have become the grey fox i just like i like those sort of things that it takes on an identity of itself you know mm-hmm 100 yeah yeah i mean it's a bit of a cope but it's like i've kind of like no no what i'm about to say is a cope it's like i'm kind of i've kind of cannoned why it looks so crap as basically it's like it's all part of the curse it's like there's no way it looked like that on the back of nocturnal's hood but when it gets cut off and cursed it's like no not only will you be forgotten but you're gonna look like a as you do it like it's like it is forgettable to look at it's it's kind of a bit silly it's not like imagine if it was some really awesome looking uh cow that that would fit on nocturnal's cloak it's like they're gonna be very memorable where it's like yeah you have to be forgotten and look well that's the weirdest that's the weird thing is that the cow's not invisible right so when you rip it off your head wouldn't you still be holding it in your hand and people would just look at you and be like what's this yeah but these are oblivion guards they're not the cleverest i don't know man they seem to have telepathy and know that i just moved not even stole move the cheese wedge a few districts over and i get a five-star gta rating and they all head on over you know yeah fair but yeah the cow is super super cool and as we were saying there's a story uh about how it was stolen by the first guild master of the thieves guild uh which is pronounced many ways i've always said like emma deloth like emmerdale some people say emi derelos that's how i would but yeah emo yeah anyway well emma whatever not mr like uh was so so the cow was stolen and he basically used uh another thief as a distraction to steal it when there were the witches and they made kind of nocturnal come out and then basically they all point up and go oh there's the girl and then she realizes she was the distraction and the cow gets taken to be fair she actually kind of gets a lot of stuff stolen from her yeah like the whole eye of nocturnal things so like the quest in oblivion where you where these two argonians have stolen the eye of nocturnal and then hid it in this sort of like little cave basement thing uh what is this artifact anyway i've never understood what it is maybe it's just like a scrying stone of sorts i don't know it's just but remember she can see where it is and that's why it's hidden in the cave she can see literally just her eye it could kind of be but that would also fit with a scrying thing yeah i find it so funny to imagine the people stealing it because like say they're just holding it and nocturnal can just see like up their chin as they're running away with it it's like when you if you see like a live stream where someone steals a phone from a live stream yeah yeah yeah but um yeah so anybody in oblivion you get the skeleton key in return for that you actually get the skeleton key pretty easy in skyrim they really like buff it up they're like whoa this is this is it needs super protection this is crazy and you don't even get to keep it yeah unless you don't want to finish the storyline yeah whereas in oblivion you get it real quick it was it becomes a thing that you do really quickly as soon as you can do it because you never have to invest into the security skill yeah just get this unbreakable lock pick right that buffs up your security skill but then you just press auto attempt as many times as you can and it just goes and then unlocks whatever you want yeah and i like how in in that's in that incarnation of it it looks like a like a mechanical lockpick that you can imagine some really old school almost steampunk tech vibes where it like goes and like picks the lock when you stick it in and maybe press a button whereas in other examples it's kind of literally like a key that will open any any door so so do we want to talk about the skeleton key do we have anything else to say about the grey cow i don't think so i think it's sort of done and i think we talked about it a decent bit in the daedric artifact podcast so okay so there's the skeleton key so the skeleton k itself um can open any physical thing but also has the potential to unlock your own potential right so you can unlock yourself with it so this is not just speculation by the way the source for this is carliah in skyrim she explains that it has the potential to unlock your potential as i was saying where would you put it to unlock your potential i don't know i feel like just straight into your chest or something would be the most cool appropriate yeah it's got to be somewhere with a hole and it's got to be one that anyone can have as well so yeah your mouth you put the skeleton key in your mouth but then you can't speak you just do it you put it in your mouth twist it take it out and you're unlocked but but seriously it doesn't have to fit because just to let that joke fly over my head every door you come across like actual physical doors they're not all going to be um have the same size lock or whatever it kind of i imagine just magically adapts to the size of the orifice regardless like so the keyhole is what i meant but i i genuinely kind of believe that like i feel like it just kind of it's cool to imagine like if you took the skyrim one like the bottom end of it's the same but the key actually shapes to whatever it's going into as it does and you know like magically just kind of yeah into the shape of the lock and then you twist it and it unlocks at least that's that's what i imagine but that explains everyone back on topic i am why mercer frey yeah was so powerful right and he he even uses it there's there's this scene yeah yeah boys there's this scene in the blind-sided quest right like when you're going through all those kind of like the dwemer ruin and there's heaps of falmouth who are really annoying a tower basically like collapses right and brinyoff's like well like how did that happen and carliah basically says like mercer frey did it slash has the potential to do things like that because of the skeleton key and there's no telling what he's capable of with that artifact in his hands so to me it kind of has the idea that you can become if you're a novice wizard you could become a grand wizard or if you're a beginner archer you could reach like legolas level heights so long as you have the skeleton key in your possession which is like one in a million chance and then know how to use it to unlock all this stuff which is also one in a million chance probably so it's very unlikely that the power of the key actually gets harnessed um and i feel like though those that actually get their hands on it will tend to be people who could harness its potential although not in the case of oblivion where you got it just for going and getting that eye so for its origin story what do you guys think do you think created by nocturnal or do you think stolen from azura as is in the kijita yes when you read the kagiti story it talks about i believe it's boethiah defeating nocturnal and then bringing her before azura to be judged and azura basically says you can serve me and live or not and then azura sorry and then nocturnal seeing a moment of opportunity goes and steals i think it's one of azure's keys yeah and then use and then escapes back into like the void right yeah so it's not necessarily the skeleton key but it's kind of at least it's kind of insinuated i think yeah yeah kind of well just like we want to believe that well yeah has a key where'd she get it yeah yeah and and associated with um yeah plus the ramifications are way cooler with well that's kind of why i like to believe the khajiit myth one just because i feel like a it's very on brand for nocturnal like you know patron of thieves to to steal the the key um and well she did steal a key and it could almost be seen as that's how she escaped so so if it is the skeleton key this also brings in the idea that the skeleton key cannot just open physical barriers or unlock your own potential as carlier explains in the thieves guild story but actually unlock portals to different realms and other places of power or danger so long as you know how to go there based on two things a the fact that it at least sounds like in that kijit story that it was used for her to unlock whatever portal to escape from azura and and secondly um that it kind of opens the portal to the um ebon glom yeah yeah so my interpretation of this sorry evergloom i get it so confused evergloam ebb and me and they're like so mixed together you know you've got um in the khajiit creation me if you've got azura is responsible for creating the lunar lattice which is the barrier between oblivion and the mortal realm of mundus so having the skeleton key it's you know it not only would kind of explain how nocturnal can open portals between oblivion and the mortal realm to her own realm but it's a way of like essentially the skeleton keys potential is that like opening any door in the real world it can open gates to every realm of oblivion and i think i don't think it has the power to yet but it has the potential to possibly open into a furious and that's kind of what she wants to realize i mean she tried to realize that with sophisil's artifact but failed and i think that's kind of she's just trying to unlock everything you know yeah she's a hacker imagine if that's actually a bit more of a motivation it's kind of like a thief it's kind of if you imagine a thief sort of obsession like an ambitious thief that's sort of like oh i want to be able to get into anything and unlock anything that might even be a bit of nocturnal sort of psyche it's like i want to unlock everything do everything get everywhere have my like access yeah as much access as she can get i mean aetherius is like the ultimate master lock you know to to access as well you know it's what the data have been kind of pushed out from they're not a part of it um you know she can access the mortal realm i think she can probably access a lot of oblivion with it with its potential but like the ultimate lock is the agent yeah i think it's very on brand the the khajiit sort of the khajiit myth that's what that's what i buy into i think it's a it's much more interesting than oh she just created it and especially i mean a lot of the khajiit myths are really cool like in general yeah yeah that's one of the most like well-thought-out mythologies they've added for sure i hope that i inspired that when i made that video and i was like why uh elsewhere would be a bad location i still kind of stand by it for from an elder scrolls sex perspective but i really didn't think bethesda would ever be of zenimax or whoever would ever be bothered to put all the different um breeds in and then they did and i'm like i hope i like put this energy in you of like you can't do it and they want to prove me wrong yeah we should go back and comment like this aged poorly cause but can you see it being done in elder scrolls oh i sex i could as in like elsewhere being the location i'm i mean not realistic yeah we know it's not going to be but i mean like could you see them doing a brand new elder scrolls game in elsewhere that fulfills all of the law about elsewhere really well i i don't know i just know that like because early so you can you know examples with like not putting the imgur in valenward and stuff that's exactly i mean that's exactly why i made the video yeah so like look elder scrolls online has some great stuff but especially at the start there was some really really lazy and you can see where they cut corners in some of those areas because they didn't work and you know to a degree fair enough you're building this huge thing you can't allocate heaps of time to every little detail a bit like how much is it just to put in you know some monkeys and and imgur or whatnot but um yeah it was really good that they did do it for uh elsewhere that's the thing the expansions are focused you know whereas um all of all of the really bad stuff about eso was when they just shoved the whole of tamriel at you you know whereas when they folk maybe not so much morrowind but when they focused on murkmeyer and focused on elsewhere it really delivered um yeah it did seem a bit rushed when it was the whole thing so i guess we can talk about oh her craziest daedric artifact the bow of shadows the bow of shadows is basically just a powerful bow that makes you really fast and invisible so that's cool i don't know if there's any special metaphysical uses for it does dram is it yeah yeah he has it is reported reported that the assassin drown once wielded it yeah but uh in the battle of hunting bay when he shot prince at all with the poisoned arrow that eventually killed him yeah um it's not that cool i mean it's cool come on like people get the nightingale bow or the nightingale sword from skyrim and think that's cool the bow of shadows is cooler than the nightingale oh sure the nightgown sword has a cool design but like the knight they all have cool designs is cool because you're a superhero looking dude the problem with the shadows though is like if you're playing a nocturnal worshipping stealthy character why would you ever want a bow you know like who plays a stealth archer nobody but you know like put a rope onto it and shoot an arrow and use it as a grappling hook a lot of assassins in theory could actually worship nocturnal and gain a lot of benefit but they do just tend to worship other more violent daedric princes typically you know they like their stythus they like their mephala and things like that um but you could there's no reason why you couldn't right yeah i hardly doubt nocturnal would be against killing or maybe she pretends to be i don't know but she definitely it's not it's not a um it's not below her yeah i just uh yeah i i think it's not a good idea pretty much in any circumstance to really get into look maybe if you're a thief or something but then i guess my argument would be don't be a thief don't worship nocturnal i think is that is there any um we should probably make a video don't worship her part two don't forget paternal yeah because like honestly she's not she is not what she's uh i don't know she she's a bad bad person i just don't like it i think she's one of the people like her because she's got cleavage and she's got cool artifacts but i like nocturnal from a law perspective oh yeah from the laws cool do you like any day draw from a very nice person perspective yeah see there are there are some like you know her scene i was wondering maybe we should make a video on this but like the the most morally like good i could say like daedra some of the more like consistent ones like so like her scene is is very he's like honorable in that sense and he's he though well he respects the competition above anything but then again let me tell you a little story about thane ice hammer a nord hunter who unknowingly killed a bunch of wear her scene in my opinion should find that impressive instead he gets angry and shoves the spear of a bit of mercy in his side the spear tip breaks off and stays inside work corrupts thing ice hammer turns him crazy he kills an acolyte of kine in a fit of rage gets buried alive in some tombs and becomes a dragger walking its halls until he's killed in the second era that's not fair that is not fair but to be fair he was protecting his own creatures and the second thing is he is still a daedra as far as daedra go that's what i'm saying like yeah but her scene like outside like you know no one's nobody's perfect you know what i mean but for the most part her scene is a pretty straightforward good daedric prince that has been he's pretty fair most of the time plus her scene you know what miss if he hit him in the side it was probably like a you'd stop that but i'm not going to kill you and then the spear does its thing and he's like oops you know so i reckon you know what i mean though he he in based on how he acted in skyrim i would expect him to almost be super impressed because he's meant to respect the hunter as well as the hunted regardless of if they're a lycanthrope or not but anyway we won't we won't uh go too far into her scene in this podcast we can save it for another one i do agree with you generally but yes i'm probably just being that person who i usually don't like like here's one example of why you're wrong yeah but but like it is cool but that's not a scroll slaw but in essence i think the the point of bringing that up anyway is just like nocturnal is like the opposite example of that i think there's just too many examples of just kind of like even the business transactions just seem kind of unfair like the whole nightingale scenario like i wouldn't take that or maybe they deem it fair but i just and there's just lots of dv i mean she literally tried to make the entire world her so i don't really in in skyrim as well don't you swear because you haven't got the skeleton key yet don't you kind of swear allegiance to her forever and everything but you kind of a pseudo-nightingale because you haven't gone and been blessed and got one of those agent powers and anything i don't know it's it's the joke too that like you you the dragonborn belongs to like 15 princesses no but what i'm saying is it's like you served you um gave your kind of devotion up front like you paid in advance you didn't get your nightingale powers until you swore loyalty to her and then helped you know like you think oh i'm a nightingale now all right i'm gonna swap this here's my soul give me some juicy powers but instead he's my soul but like no powers for me until i help you yeah sounds rough i'm not yeah she's just for a lot of people it's just getting a bit of luck you know it's not like you're not giving everything to her and she's not taking everything from you i think as far as worshiping princess goes she's one of the better ones in my opinion you know so long as you don't end up being a um what do you call it a globe night or a yeah or like i wouldn't like this on a casual level but like i mean you could even argue like even if you were to compare like okay mary this is a funny one because mayren's dagon is like you know the most like typical looking evil kind of thing but even his like ideas of like revolution and change and and destruction are kind of like consistent and not necessarily like this sort of he's like kind of acting out his sphere versus egotistically looking after their own things kind of it's like at least you know what you're getting into when you sign up yeah but i'm like there would be a lot of turnover it's just no but that like the fact that you think some thief knows that they might be made into a gloam night that that she may essentially steal you or steal your soul i feel like that it's at very least is consistent of what to expect from her whether or not it's good is another question but yeah well that's what i'm kind of saying is what i'm saying is like that sounds sucky i just oh one day she just whimsically just decides to steal your soul [Laughter] being a nightingale is just being like the number one patron or only fan support let's um i was gonna i i did ask her some questions on youtube and we can kind of so from maeve sw what relationships does she have with the other daedric princes if any she seems different than most of our pals from oblivion any ideas why well she does have interactions with mafaala and clavicus file as a little triad like little little conspiracy to get hold of the crystal tower but um we talked about that but outside of that i don't know if there is too much but maybe if she you know stole potentially in khajiit myth she stole the the key from azura but one just saying so she seems different and there some people kind of point that out and we can kind of talk about the term uh urdra or daedra um because like er in english to be like it's like the most primal or original kind of thing and erdra just seems like a sort of combined ur daedra and because er daedra is specifically used um about homeosmora and i think there's the urdura is used in the khajiit um writings and it refers to like azura and namira as well but sort of seemingly some of the most like you know the most ancient original kind of oldest spirits potentially and there are ideas that she is you know that super old like i wonder if that's you know kind of partially gives a bit of her kind of the obscure sort of mysterious kind of nature of her of her realm as well kind of i guess gives that feeling of like ancient you're not sure what she wants and then you know what i mean potentially if she was around before other spirits or something weird like that perhaps that's why she wants to become everything it's like when the second sibling gets born and the first one gets jealous she's like i want it to be like it was before i want to be everything i feel like that's why she's though like i just it's just the consistency of the term terminology i just think like hermes morris kind of gives the vibe that is really really ancient and so does namira but kind of putting azure and you know potentially nocturnal like shadows and stuff but no azura doesn't seem kind of the same to me i guess or like i know it just kind of makes me think that all the daedra urdra like that's what i was thinking outside of the ones that have been created like in a later story or dagon or something but like you know what i mean yeah i guess like you know if i'm trying to rationalize it just off the top of my head it's like when i'm thinking of these urdra it seems like they're they're forces that were there very early so for example um you know the beginning of time you've kind of got azura's passage of night and day and then when you've got like the darkness and nocturnal being an offshoot of the darkness so she's like the shadow the interplay of anu and padmai the shadows against the light sorry the darkness against the light creating the shadows if nocturnal is like the patron of shadows then she's there pretty early you know as soon as you've got the the meshing of light and dark she kind of is born off from that so that's one reason and whereas like uh is left over from the creation of the munda so he's inherently he's going to be there when it's created so it's like these are very early excuses whereas are you trying to say perhaps something like club because vile which is very involved in packs and deals and mortal affairs may come later yeah well like that there's nothing to say that these are kind of like um like a prince like clavicus vial or sanguine for example they're not gonna predate mortals you know they kind of they rely upon mortals to have their sphere well like obviously they do predate them because they're spirits who were there before the creation but yeah like what they kind of resemble isn't i know what you're getting at but that's that's literally just off the top of my head so it could be a load of crap yeah the other another question this is an interesting one actually um zac kyler why are the twilight suffolk and ebony so important to her influence other daedric gods seem to be powerful enough without a portal to their plane but nocturnal needs a super secret crew to guard the portal to the evergloam and closing the portal brings misfortune to her followers it my my first guess would be that it is not so much about like this big influence thing i think it might be a localized thing like sort of to the skyrim area of influence or so on i feel like and maybe it's kind of the intensity of influence that can come through versus uh elsewhere in the in the in tamriel well if you think about the fact that you've got you know however it came into being whether it was akatosh who did it with the the dragon fires and stuff the whole idea is you've got a barrier between nurn and and uh oblivion whereas having this having a portal there permanently that can just connect oblivion to the mortal realm is pretty powerful and it kind of ties into the skeleton key conversation we had too yeah so yeah seems important to protect and maintain yeah yeah i would i guess it's just sort of telling like they're just the the difference of influence though too like i don't i don't know if it necessarily is i feel like i might be played up in the skyrim thing a little bit and that's why i was saying it might be localized in in terms of because because because otherwise wouldn't all thieves all over tamriel have bad luck yeah no like thieves like the sphere just sort of hits everything i think it's an intensity sort of thing perhaps or it wasn't yeah or it just wasn't thought through um best kill 6a says does she have any connection to um shadow magic and yeah she does like it's kind of like a natural association by the fact that she is you know queen of shadows kind of thing and then she made a shadow version of so the sill and sort of it all plays on the similar idea of of shadow magic that's in the shadow key game that's the sort of um created by conflict of forces and stuff like that and yeah i like it it's kind of you could probably even get like um into some like carl young kind of stuff with like the shadow self and and things like that that um you could expand her sphere to a lot of things so yeah um j cut says is she down to smash probably not man i feel i feel like she's pretty it's a trick yeah there are a lot of questions and like that are just like who is hotter in your opinion azure or nocturnal and things of this nature um but yeah there's just lots and lots of probably nocturnal will scott talk about vore in this podcast probably not this one but um i think i think that pretty much covers the essence of nocturnal um but she's not a good person not a good person the way you say it makes her sound so mortal i'm like you've been personally affected yeah she's not a good person disgusting behavior yeah just you know i denounce nocturnal i publicly do that now she's really really cool but she's a she's a villainous character i like nocturnal i think nocturnal's super cool one of the coolest daedric princes there is she's top 17 for sure i like her the artifacts are super cool yeah yeah but yeah there we go emo big titty goth chick danica prince that okay well thanks everyone for watching and uh social media links are down in the description we'll be back to nerd out with you all again and stay tuned to our twitter for what topics are coming next see you see you later

Channel: FudgeMuppet

Views: 57,053

Keywords: skyrim, skyrim lore, elder scrolls, elder scrolls lore, daedric prince, daedric prince lore, nocturnal, nocturnal lore, thieves guild, nightengales, skeleton key, gray fox, elder scrolls shadows, shadow magic

Id: 0ry2JayZMTE

Length: 57min 40sec (3460 seconds)

Published: Sun Oct 11 2020