The Bible In The Orthodox Church: The Old Testament (Discovering Orthodox Christianity)

hello and welcome to the television series entitled discovering Orthodox Christianity I'm Stacy Spanos your host for these programs which are designed to explain the basic teachings of Orthodox Christianity we're honored to be filming at the Holy Cross Chapel on the campus of Hellenic College Holy Cross Greek Orthodox school of theology in beautiful Brookline Massachusetts and we know that you'll learn so much about our faith and traditions so today's program will discuss the Bible in the Orthodox Church specifically the Old Testament our guest on the program is Reverend dr. Harry Pappas pastor of arc angels Greek Orthodox Church in Stamford Connecticut an adjunct professor at st. Vladimir's orthodox seminary in Yonkers New York father Pappas is a specialist in the Old Testament having earned his PhD in the subject so thank you and welcome it's good to be here first of all who wrote the Old Testament father Pappas traditionally the Old Testament was written by the Prophet and lawgiver Moses the first five books then by other figures as the prophet Isaiah the king and prophet King David Solomon his successor and many other of the prophetic figures and wisdom figures that are recorded in Scripture we know on the basis of a lot of contemporary scholarship that while traditional authorship has been given assigned to these very important figures that oftentimes there are portions of the Old Testament that we are simply not aware who exactly wrote it even if they were ascribed to these major figures like Moses and David and Isaiah so how did it come into existence it started through storytelling the best that we can gather maybe about 4,000 years ago about the time that the patriarch Abraham had been called by God out of what is now present-day Iraq and to travel to a land that he did not know from then the stories began about God's interaction with Abraham's family and lineage and the people that came from them the people of ancient Israel the people from whom Jesus Christ came and from storytelling there emerged the recording of events events like the call of Abraham stories about the creation the Exodus in Egypt the wilderness wanderings the establishment in Cana where the Promised Land and then from royal decrees once God's people were set up with their own government then sayings of prophets that were either written down during their lifetime or after that as well as recording of wisdom figures like Solomon in books like the Proverbs do we know at what point it was bound into book format and disseminated to the masses we don't have any reliable record with exactitude but the best that we've been able to establish with a result of a lot of contemporary scholarship as well as ancient wisdom is that the first part and most significant part traditionally the Torah or the law really came into being in the Babylonian exile about 580 years before Christ was born then there were other writings of prophets recordings of the kings chronicles and wisdom literature that came about in ensuing that were finalized in centuries that followed the Babylonian exile who are the most important figures in the Old Testament without a doubt the most important figures would be Adam and Eve the first created human beings then Noah above all Abraham has the first-called of God's people and the father of all believers David the first king of Israel Moses the prophet and lawgiver and the prophet Isaiah those would be the greatest of the figures of the Old Testament what are some of the most important events to come out of the Old Testament without a doubt the event of the exodus from Egypt is the event of the Old Testament it is the time when God's people had been oppressed for hundreds of years in Egypt and they were liberated by a God who finally heard their of cry out of this oppression to lead them through Moses through many acts of deliverance to cross the Red Sea to go through the wilderness wandering to inherit the promised land after that the most significant event would be the Babylonian exile when God's people the southern kingdom of Judah were taken into exile about five hundred eighty s but eighty years before Christ was born because that was the greatest tragedy that ever happened and from those events or rather I should say in-between those events the most significant thing would have been the establishment of Qing Chun and kingship with David because David as Messiah which refers in the Old Testament not to a future figure but to a reigning anointed king to govern his people in this world in this life from that time from that establishment comes the dynamic of who is Messiah that will finally fulfill David and finally bring God's rule and reign in this life what books do you believe are the most important when it comes to studying the Old Testament in my estimation the books of Genesis Exodus Deuteronomy the Psalms and Isaiah would be the most important parts of the Old Testament alright a Genesis lays the foundations of creation of what it means to be human of the original state in which were created how we corrupted and lost that great privilege what God kept doing to restore and heal us to our promised inheritance and how that works itself out through the call of Abraham and his his successors is his descendants Isaac and Jacob and the people of Israel Exodus because it records the call of Moses the deliverance of God's people from the Exodus in the beginning of the move into Promised Land Deuteronomy because it's the summary of God's teachings and Commandments that establishes how they are to live forever and includes many important things that look towards taking possession of the promised land and living as a settled people the Book of Psalms because that's the most quoted in the New Testament and it is the heart of Orthodox worship and is the book of prayer from which we learn how to pray and Isaiah because he's considered by the great Fathers of the Church to be the fifth evangelist because from that book more is gleaned and pertains to the life and especially the passion death crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ the New Testament seems to have a feeling of love and compassion these are the teachings of Jesus in the Old Testament God seems vengeful and angry why is that the Old Testament records a far longer period of history than does the new and includes God's revelation at a particular time and place for particular people so therefore it does not contain the fullness of all that God has to reveal but while there are times where God does appear to be angry and vengeful and wrathful there are many other portions of the Old Testament that are simply not known where God is extraordinarily loving and compassionate and forgiving the Old Testament over a March longer period of time was written where people the God's people were in circumstances that involved warfare conquest dealing with hostile powers dealing with foreign religious traditions that were alien and threatening to their own viability as the unique separated people of God the New Testament by contrast deals with the fullness of Revelation in geez through Jesus the Messiah or Christ a much shorter period of time and involves a time where God's people do not have control of society or an ability to defend themselves in some military fashion or to manifest their own desires when threatened through ways other than suffering and persecution you just brought up gentler you had brought up Genesis and I wanted to ask you about an issue that some theologians bring up with Genesis even some laypeople that there are two different creation stories explain what the differences are well we people typically refer to Genesis chapter 1 and this chapter two is two different creation accounts they both differ in terms of language and content and even thrust however the best way to understand them now is to see Genesis chapter 1 as setting the theological spiritual parameters and outline by which to understand the more specific story in Genesis chapter 2 so we learn different theological and spiritual lessons from each understanding chapter 2 not to be separate from chapter 1 but rather a further refinement and detail of what Chapter 1 provides on a larger scale well explain to us the differences well the differences include that God speaks and creates by a word alone in chapter 1 whereas in chapter 2 he's working with material clay to form human beings in Chapter 1 there is a great deal of attention to the creation involving water whereas in chapter 2 there's a great attention to dry land there are different in chapter 1 God is creates human beings male/female instantaneously at the same time whereas in chapter 2 God creates the man Adam first then from him creates the woman Eve some of the differences between the two and so which one are we to digest to believe both because chapter 2 gives us in from detailed information that chapter 1 simply doesn't provide and because our ancient Hebrew ancestors who provided us these inspired stories were simply not as concerned as maybe we American Christians might be in having everything to be completely harmonized they had no problem with distinct and different angles of the creation story just like they had with different angles of the flood account or of the establishment of kingship later in the Bible where you've got details that don't always fit together but they're part of a wonderful multifaceted story that has different angles to it that can all just be harmonized squeezed into one nice neat narrative some of the stories from the Old Testament seemed to defy reality for example Methuselah living to the age of 1,000 Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt a lot of people questioned the story of Noah's Ark how are we to take these witch stories are reliable which are not understanding the Old Testament today involves us knowing what kind of literature were reading when we read the Old Testament itself since it's composed over many centuries and involves many different kinds of writing I will compare this to how we would read a newspaper today if we pick up a newspaper it would be disastrous to read an editorial the same way we would read a news report or a comic strip the same way we'd read an advertisement so in the Old Testament we have different kinds of writing and the earliest chapters of Genesis chapters 1 through 11 are typically sacred stories that are inspired by God but are not the same as historical counts in the books of Samuel and kings about the rise of Saul and David and Psalm and the establishment of the kingdom and the kingship so therefore when we read about Methuselah as a great descendant of Adam and Eve living to be a thousand years old we must understand that this is part of sacred story not a part of history writing so there is a symbolic way of understanding that that that doesn't necessarily have to read it as a literal 1000 year lifecycle but understands how the life cycles diminish over time because of the impact of sin and that God eventually establishes a life cycle a lot upper limit of about a hundred twenty years only to preserve us human beings falling into greater sin because of longer life spans and that by contrast these the ancient story of Methuselah compared to the ancient Babylonian creation myths is far more reliable because the ancient Babylonian myths that predate our sacred stories the life spans were twenty thirty forty and fifty thousand years and these were much less with a Lot's wife turning into a pillar of salt once again we have very ancient stories and it's simply impossible for us to know some degree of what actually happened in history though that may not even be the most important part because history is not just a matter of what happens it's a matter of how we understand it and the way we understand history is significant in Scripture so that there is no story in the Bible without interpretation understanding that's inspired by God's Spirit there is a lot of history documented in the Old Testament stories about Kings why should that matter to us it matters because all the stories of God's people are foundational to us understanding who we are as Christians today it would be the same as if I were to visit you and let's say there would be a death of a loved one in the family and everyone would be around talking about stories of what that person meant in their life so just as I could not get a sense of who a relative of yours might be without the stories told about person character places people events humorous sad boring in the middle so for us as believers does all of the stories of our spiritual ancestors the ancient Israelites the Apostles the great Fathers of the Church and the Saints is all important because it helps inform us as to how we are today and we learn a great deal from both things they did well and faithfulness to God things they didn't do well and so it's all written and inspired for our moral instruction even today just as the Apostles taught us does the Orthodox Church honor the great figures of the testament' and if so how emphatically the orthodox tradition has honored all the old testament figures as glorified Saints ride along the apostles of the New Testament and the martyrs the Church Fathers and the great aesthetics with feast days and above all this is especially apparent on the Sunday before Christmas when in the mountains or or through service in the scene exciting or commemoration we read all the Old Testament ancestors of Christ from Adam and Eve all the way through the patriarchs and matriarchs the kings and queens including the prophets and prophetesses because they were women prophets and the righteous and noble figures up to his own parents Mary and Joseph do we know how important the Old Testament was for Christ we do we have a sharpened understanding of this Jesus would have grown up in a very devout Jewish household in that household in Nazareth he would have been struck today fail talk was the Virgin Mary on a daily basis about who we are as a people the stories of the patriarchs Abraham and the rest of the exodus of the kings David and Solomon of the judges like Samuel of the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah Jesus would have attended synagogue faithfully over Saturday he would have heard the Old Testament Psalms he would have heard the prayers he would have heard sermons he would have heard readings from the Torah from the prophets it would have informed his life from the inside out so that is emerged into adulthood the Old Testament which was the only Bible he would have known was inside his mind and his heart operating through all of his ministry and how did he incorporate the Old Testament in his ministry well we have an example in the Sermon on the Mount in chapters 5 through 7 of Matthew where he explicitly is referring to having come not to destroy the Torah the commandments and the stories of God people enshrined in the first five books but rather to fulfill them we also have examples of how he takes the commandments of the Old Testament and radically internalize them so that it's not no longer simply a break in one's relationship with God to commit adultery adultery in actual fact externally but now even thinking about it internally breaks our relationship with God he referred to Old Testament figures in his first sermon at a back in Nazareth where he grew up in Luke chapter 4 he refers to the prophets Elijah and Elijah and things that they did he is praying the Psalms even as he's dying on a cross Psalm 22 and his entire ministry focused on the in breaking Kingdom absolutely has everything to do with what the Old Testament says about who God is who we are what the creation is all about and how God wants to organize our life in this world I know some Christians who have never even cracked open the Old Testament in fact that you can buy copies of the Bible just the New Testament how important is the Old Testament to us as Orthodox Christians following what the Apostles and the fathers have taught I would say it's of critical importance because the old the New Testament is written out of the raw material of the Old Testament and the gospel stories of Jesus are precisely in understanding Jesus on the basis of the Old Testament so therefore without understanding the Old Testament we can't understand the new we will misunderstand the New Testament we will misunderstand liturgy epistle Gospel and though and the hymns of the church whereas the better we understand the Old Testament the better we understand the new and vice-versa the New Testament reveals and helps understand and interpret the Old Testament in ways that could never have been anticipated until the Messiah finally showed up in the person of Jesus of Nazareth I think you talked about this already that we use during one service we talked about some of the people throughout the Old Testament do we use other passages from the Old Testament in our worship as Orthodox Christians the backbone of Orthodox worship is the Book of Psalms it's everywhere in the daily Offices of the hours in the Vespers in the Matins it's supposed to be in the liturgy but it dropped out for the most part centuries ago and we need to recover it except for some little verses that are sometimes chanted at the anti funds the Psalms is the book that schools us in how to pray and my heartfelt conviction as a pastor of 28 years is most of us don't really know how to pray deeply enough and the Psalms needs to be the way in which we recover that Athanasius the great the great church father said only through the Book of Psalms can we put on Christ and actually assume what how we been baptized and grow up into the Lord so that's critical second book after that is the Book of Isaiah which comes up in the Gospel story so much of Jesus and comes up in some of the services of the church especially when we read Old Testament at the great feast days Christmas epiphany and above all Holy Week and the Easter celebration since you have been a pastor for 28 years I'm sure you've led many a Bible study what is the number one question you get from people about the Old Testament um gee why do we have to read this anyway can't we just stick with the New Testament it's so much shorter it's so much easier it's so much more appealing to me that's probably the most common question what led you to take such a fascination with it to be so fascinated by it when I was a theological student here on campus in the late 70s a couple of my professors observed and took an interest in me and called me in and asked me questions about my future and they encouraged me to go on for further study and when I was asked well what in air is interested in I'd mentioned a few things and then finally because I was interested in Bible I was directly challenged how about Old Testament we really need people in the church that do advance that he's no test because nobody ever does that did you thought of that even before they mentioned it never it was a revelation to me so I began taking a course in Hebrew in the summer at Harvard Divinity School and hated it for one week and then I crossed a threshold and fell in love with the Hebrew language and our affair has never ended I've never heard anybody say be an affair with the Old Testament and I will say that the Old Testament is very difficult to read not only because of its length but because of the various names and so and so begat so and so why is all of that important all of its important because since the Christian faith is so radically founded on the person Jesus Christ and the gospel message proclaimed in his faith above all his suffering crucifixion death and resurrection and the life of Jesus Christ is profoundly intertwined with the Old Testament what we call the Old Testament therefore all of those things that informs who Jesus was is now important for us because it not only informed who Jesus was what his purpose and mission in life was but he also changed the way we see the Old Testament he gave us new eyes to do this so that it becomes now relevant meaningful impactful and energizing in ways for us that would never have been possible without him it seems there are different versions of the Old Testament for different denominations different Christian denominations why is that what are the differences well there are on the one hand different translations of the Old Testament just of the new hundreds if not thousands many of which can be very reliable and useful because they all highlight different things of the original languages Hebrew and Aramaic in the Old Testament and the Greek translation there are different versions that are read by Christians today including different by Protestant Christians primarily or by Roman Catholics or by Orthodox some of those differences have to do with the fact that at least for us Orthodox there has never been a define a conciliar definition about what exactly the limits of the Old Testament is we have shorter canons of 39 books longer canons of even up to 52 books of the Old Testament generally considered 49 books well it is by some but it's not Universal because once again we've never had a conciliar definition there's a very common designation of it being 49 from a version of the Septuagint the Greek translation but there's a different version Ethiopians use or the Slavic churches have used and there are simply they're different of opinions in the Church Fathers about what the number of the Old Testament books is so while we share 39 basic books with Roman Catholics and Protestants there are additional books that are called readable in our tradition on a unis kamana that we read for profit even if they may not have the same authority as the main 39 but then again we share all of those with Roman Catholics with some slight differences so we have more in common with those readable books with the Catholics than we do with Protestants but even Protestants are beginning to rediscover them and incorporate them back in their Bible because of the richness of what comes from the teaching of these extra books you've been a very enthusiastic supporter of the Old Testament if somebody is interested in learning more about it are there resources available for them what would you say they should read obviously the Old Testament start from the beginning probably other outlets for them well I would I would begin by emphasizing that there is nothing that replaces direct contact with the Old Testament itself through the worship of the church the Psalms in prayer public prayer private prayer the stories of the Old Testament as they come to us through the hymns of the church the commemorations of the church but for Christians to pick up and read the Old Testament on a regular basis is very dear to my heart and very important for spiritual growth irreplaceable along with that there are growing resources in English for people there are the resources of the writings of the fathers of the church that are increasingly being translated there are writings of good contemporary scholarship that make the biblical resources available in ways that we wouldn't have been have prior to advances in archaeology and in biblical study that have occurred only in the last few hundred of years pastors now have a greater exposure through their education there are resources on the internet that are available there are Orthodox writers writing commentaries increasingly on books of the Old Testament all of these resources are going to be available increasingly in the coming years so we have the benefit of them but nothing replaces our own direct contact without all the other commentary on it father Harry Pappas thank you so much you're very welcome and please return to view the remaining programs in this series discovering Orthodox Christianity you can find them at youtube.com slash Greek Orthodox Church I'm Stacy Spanos thank you for joining us you you

Channel: GreekOrthodoxChurch

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Keywords: Greek, Orthodox, Christian, America, Old Testament (Religious Text), The Bible (Religious Text), Orthodox Christianity (Religion), Eastern Orthodox Church (Religion)

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Length: 29min 46sec (1786 seconds)

Published: Sun Nov 03 2013