The BEST unintentional ASMR conversation ever recorded | Accidental ASMR for sleep

well to start with you know shamanism is such a wide perspective of different teachings so it's quite specific the way I worked was quite specific to South America where I spent a lot of time but shamanism in general is healing so it's the knowledge of how to do this firstly with aspects of yourself and your immediate community and then how to apply that knowledge in a wider perspective so I worked with South American shamans I think you were in northern Paris yeah northern Peru and on the border to Brazil and I worked in that specific culture which is wonderful because it's a mixture of native South American culture with the influence of the West because of course South America has been colonized and for hundreds of years now so the European perspective of the world is also present in the native culture so basically I didn't know anything because I'm not from South America but I had a strong connection to the people and nature you know to the forests to the Amazon forests and just a feeling of the place spoke deeply to my heart so you know I went there not to study shamanism or to do anything specific I went there as a marine biologist to work to help save the environment basically so that was my you have a fascination with nature totally and that was my you know initial reason for being there after a while I understood that as everyone understands that you know whatever your passion is it's also your path so and you have to go deeper it's not enough just to save the world you have to also look at what is creating the disharmony in the world within yourself so that is yeah you have to save yourself exactly exactly and that is what a death rebirth experience is the death is basically the death of what the ego or the mine believes to be important and the rebirth is being born again into the wider perspective of reality you know what it is to be a human being but not focused on yourself but focused as part of nature as part of the wholeness that is nature and that was my experience in a personal sense it was very painful because I think every human being likes to hold on to little pictures about themselves and what they believe to be true and what they feel and what they think and to let go of all those things sounds easy but what forced you to let go well there was no there was no choice really you live with real people yeah you have to be real and native people you know they they live in a very simple quite real environment and they have to be themselves they can't be something else because that's a way to survive from the rainforest and you know I realized that I needed to communicate my depth to the people and not just I'm here to save the rainforest or I'm here to help you you know I had to see the deeper perspective of why am I here in the middle of the rainforest it's not even the place I was born or grew up in what what brought me here and I understood and also it was explained to me that I'm there in the rainforest I feel like I'm there today to help come to some sort of understanding about myself rather than try to save the people and the understanding was you know how can I bring that native knowledge that I could see and I could feel and to the perspective of the Western world so I had to experience that within myself you know to let go of the social ideas and to the projections that I had and to the belief systems and addictions to fear you know that is one big thing that Western people yeah you know don't understand but we live in a very fear-based culture you know where we are conflicting with the laws of nature all the time to support the idea of who we are within that little context of the Western culture and I believe that we're much more yeah and I needed to see that so you had to let go of your survival fear survival fear and the fear of opening up and being intimate with nature and being close to the forces of nature without you know hiding behind a mask and you know people when they go into a rain forest where there is all sorts of creatures and danger is real dangerous you know there's no silence and there's no spoiling it was so noisy musically no noise exactly I mean every animal is singing a song every insect is you know alive with energy and even the feeling of nature is alive with such ecstatic energy it's difficult to hide behind your mind pictures yeah you know to to be partaking in what's going on you need to be real you need to be open and in the beginning that was very difficult for me because I love nature and I studied nature but I was not able to approach it in the way that native people showed to be so easy and so beautiful to need you know how they walked how they related to everything around them I just couldn't do that within myself in a real sense I could pretend that I was you know whoever in harmony with nature but the reality was I was looking out you know is there a snake is there scorpions is there are this is there that you know because you know that's what the mine does it's afraid of anything that it doesn't understand or can't control and you can't control nature I saw a few years ago and movie I don't know if you saw it it was called emerald forest and it was about a family an American family they moved of it but he was transferred to Brazil to the rainforest to build I think it's called dam water girl and they have a little boy and they're the tribes in in the in the rainforest we're observing what they were doing and they felt so sorry for this little boy so they kidnapped him because they thought he needs to grow up in nature so they kidnapped him and he grew up in nature and there was this scene where the boy was about 12 years years old and he had to go through an his initiation and he had to dive down into into a pool of into the pond and get something and do all kinds of things business and but was so touching for me was the mother I mean the adopted mother stood there and said to him I will never see my little boy again mm-hmm which meant you are not allowed to come back as a boy you're only allowed to come back into this tribe as a grown up yes and I think when we are missing something like that in our culture totally tell me I believe that we act as children yeah not spoil children towards nature and towards just the beauty of living and I think that's what tribal people have that they haven't lost and that is what we can learn from how to look at rituals and initiations in a way where they are useful and sacred and create a possibility for us to move beyond certain limitations into a new perspective that is what initiation is and as you say you know we can grow into being fully part of the community whichever community we live in and be productive and useful and part of that joy rather than you know always wanting to take everything away from nature so that we support our selfish needs mmm that sounds like a very interesting so yes if you haven't seen it yes if I probably would like it so um you have such a passion I mean comes across in your book for for true nature you know in its in the aspect of life and Mother Earth and also the spiritual Rhymes and how can you just tell us I don't remember now if how much you said in the first interview how you come to realize true nature but what woke you up yes and I think nature is something that we you know all love and feel at home and relate to in a way that is universal and I think that's a beautiful thing because it takes us beyond our differences you know when anyone looks at a sunset or looks at the beautiful ocean or mountains you know we feel a connection to the world that is very difficult to you know say I'm this way and that it's it's just Universal so I feel that is something that children love you know they love nature and it's a pity in the Western world that we are so far removed from the natural laws of nature and how to do things in harmony with nature so for me that my teaching is to bring but important realm into spirituality because it is part of spirituality you know when when you let go of the way the mind controls perspectives and the way the mind likes to see things then we become more natural we've become ourselves and when we become more natural we're much more able to understand how nature is a teacher you know every aspect of nature brings some sort of quality that can be part of who you are and this is for me you know a very very important part of their teaching and especially in children I think you had a grandmother who was teaching you a teacher wasn't exactly I had the same grandmother exactly and that was this is the reason why I have the love for nature because from a very early age I was shown in a real sense the value of nature and how to go back to nature when things were this harmonious within me so this is always what I did you know if there was a conflict in the family or if there was something that created disharmony around me I would always go to nature sit under a tree or I just lie in the garden or do something where you know that harmony in nature created a more balanced perspective about the whole thing for me just being present to nature and my grandmother was definitely you know the main influence to allow me to understand that not only do you have to relax in nature and come back to harmony with yourself in nature but also that you can be active in utilizing the natural forces in nature to heal and to change aspects that we believe that we can only do by ourselves and this is what I was taught in the Amazon forest that was taught how to use natural remedies to cleanse the body and how to let go of certain blocks in in the body for example fear that somehow pollutes the liver or perhaps you know toxins that hold you so tightly together that you you feel that you are caged in through the toxins of pain or suffering or whatever it is and that there are natural remedies that you can use that help to release this physical remedies but also energetic remedies and we know this you know if if you're feeling stressed sore all you have to do is walk somewhere where there is more oxygen or ions in the air and your whole brain has the possibility to relax and be more focused and more productive so nature is very useful on many levels I remember often visiting my grandmother and she would head half on every shelf she would have these paper sheets with all these different herbs and she would talk to them and then later she had on her table yeah and then used them and make tea and yes concussions and all kinds of things and later she had this this this the kitchen table and there were some plants on it and then she had to take pills for her heart she was very old and then she would take a pill and then she would give the plant the same pill well and you would say what's good for me it's also good for them they love the attention I guess didn't know so much about the toxins operative of the field it was very sweet I understand and I know you can talk to the plants to you you I mean it's called a Kirov's you can sing the song yes of the mother earth or you hear yes this song oh yeah so I understand your grandmother because I believe everything has a signature which is an essence a movement of energy which is sound and and you can replicate every aspect of nature through creating a sound such as for example in India they have the sound of on which I believe to be the beginning of creation or the manifestation of creation every aspect of nature has that power so you can utilize those signatures to connect to the essence of plants or the essence of a mountain or the stars and you can bring that quality into healing so if you are sick for example with say heart disease like you know saying your grandmother and you can connect to that signature that allows the heart to find the power of healing through the plants or through aspects of nature and I think this is even used in homeopathy word you know somehow the vibration officer is right that is exactly and you know it's yeah it's easy you know it's not better but then Tony I mean there are certain illnesses which start in the mind so and in my own experience and I've worked for many years as a healer unless something shifted in the mind you can heal the body in the moment but it's coming out somewhere else or it's coming back at the same place so something is a is the herb or the plant able to shift the very thing in the mind what are what do you do to help people wake up because I know yes your message is your travel around in the world and your passion is to wake people up with up to who they are exactly know that everything is one yes that's a very important question because it takes us beyond the mundaneness of you know I'm sick and I want to get better yes why are you sick do you know what is causing that is and most people don't want to know why they just want to get better and carry on doing whatever they are doing that created perhaps the illness in the first place so I would say that if someone is ready to go to that depth and change their life transform their life of course there are natural remedies out there that can help and this you know for example the Native Americans have used herbs such as sage which is considered very sacred in India also there are herbs that people don't know really what they are the soma for example is written in the Vedas you know that are sacred that I believe help to transform consciousness which is the core of my work really in the end how to change the mind that's created that picture of this harmony that in the end has influenced the physical body to create disease yeah because everything begins in the mind sure you know everything that you have create some sort of disharmony which has to go somewhere and of course it goes to the physical body or to the way you feel or it's in a way you relate to your self mentally and so I believe that meditation in essence is the way forward that is how to understand the mind and how to understand to let go of those perspectives that are creating disharmony and actually it's quite a joyous thing you know when you let go of things that make you unhappy that is meditation there are plants that help meditation that is meditation exactly meant for me that is meditation to let go of everything that veils your joy and your spontaneous presence to this moment so you're not talking about sitting down in meditation well you can sit down in meditation if that's very comfortable but well tell me more it's interesting because you also see something to change a habit we have to meditate 420 days that changes the whole physiology of the body so tell me more about that okay so I mean the thing with Western perspectives is that we want things to happen immediately we you know we want to sit and meditate for 20 minutes and then if it doesn't work we say okay you know meditation like maybe I stopped meditating and it doesn't really work for me but habits as we know you know take a long time to change anyone who's been addicted to cigarettes or alcohol or and while suffering or suffering exactly to their own mental picture knows that you have to be quite disciplined on some level of practice but clarity for a little while so that everything is let go of so that you let go of not just the mental picture but also the physical structure that holds onto that mental picture for example if we have fear you know it's not just an idea fear lives in the body lives in your emotions lives in the nervous system and how do you let go of it without continuously reminding yourself of what is real and meditation you know some people are lucky some people will meditate for 20 minutes and have an enlightening experience and be free but you know that's not very common it's what this thing some people just have an experience to be free but then it's creeping Horak exactly especially if it's then what happens often they ego take hold of text perience and sees it as very impatient and then focuses on that rather than you know expressing that beauty in the body in the way you relate to nature and the way you relate to people and yourself and this is why I think any habit requires a long time to to transform and that is a joy so actually when you are practicing meditation with that intention to let go of something you're not counting the days you know not thinking okay I've got 18 more days to go you understand that yeah you're getting closer and closer so your heart feels more joy more celebration that you're getting closer to something that is so beautiful that you know becomes your journey becomes you know a whole movement of meditation and then in the end after 120 days you know you don't realize but so how how does that look practically totally okay let's say let's take a happy yeah yes a visible habit you know there's so many habits which are running through us which are not visibly exactly so let's take black like an addiction to suffering or an addiction or whatever fear fear is a great one yeah okay so how do you how do you resolve that on a practical level okay so the first step would be to understand that you have fear to be conscious okay you know I have whatever personality situations that create Who I am but I also have something that I don't really like inside of me and that is fear yeah which usually it becomes unconscious or you know subconscious it's hidden behind what is obvious when we focus on that it comes up to the surface you know it shows itself and one thing which is very common is that we say oh we don't want that so we try to find other things enlightenment or freedom or whatever idea people have that moves us away from that the nasty feelings they experience so I would say when you open up and say okay I want to embrace fear from that perspective of freedom I don't want to run away from it then you're becoming more conscious that is the first step to meditation consciousness and you know when you are conscious that you have to work with fear you're also conscious of the aspects of fear that need to be let go of so for example if you're afraid of expressing your love to someone which you know obviously it's very much part of fear you know okay I'm not going to fall into the old habit of playing a game or projecting or hiding behind a mask I can show my love more clearly because I can see what fear is and I can see how it controls me I don't want to be controlled by that subconscious force anymore I want to be real I want to be myself when you do that nature this is why nature is important for me and also the universal aspect of nature of the Stars the galaxies are naturally aligned to be more real and when you are getting more into that space of realness then nature supports your journey and you feel that you're not alone and the movement from the unconscious primitive mind of survival transcends itself and becomes much more I don't know really what the word is but much more enlightened you know this is the word that people use I don't like it because it creates that sense of you know enlightened not enlightened but you know more free to explore itself in in a real sense and and show love and then you can begin to be more like a spontaneous child you know and show who you are to the person and usually we realize that what we're afraid of aspects of ourselves not the love that where we think will hurt us or whatever reasons we had to justify that fear yeah and you know when we see when we begin to see things as they really are that love is actually a beautiful feeling and the more we show to the world the more we show to our partner and more children the more that reflects back not just from the family or from your partner but also from the universe there is a synchronicity that happens which supports your journey everything becomes more beautiful more real and this is what I found to be in South America people are so real that in those dangerous very difficult places and the Amazon forest is not you know paradise as people think you know it's it's real you know it has many aspects there is a support that only happens to native people because they are they have let go of those fears and I feel that in our Western culture today we have to let go of those fears to transform that culture of aggression the culture of war the culture where we are constantly looking at what is important and best for us and ignoring you know the common good and the beauty that can be shared with everyone in this world this is why we're here yes well it brings up a question in me of what freedom is because would you consider the people in South America free I mean they probably have other limitations what is freedom for you how do you experience freedom know the freedom is is not only being able to deal with snakes or sounds or whatever freedom is much much more it is it is so I think you know in the end I don't try to put my perspective onto people's you know belief systems or religious ideals yeah I think freedom in the end is something that you know from your heart Kabir and Rumi the famous poets speak about this when your heart is able to just celebrate being alive and seeing the value in everything in that moment of aliveness now different people will you know measure that sense of freedom according to where they are at you know for some people freedom may mean you know just to be free of disease because that is physical disease you have cancer and you know that's what you want to be free of yeah maybe when you are free of the disease you realize wow that was a journey maybe I want to be free of the suffering that my mind is creating but not everyone understands that perspective until they go through certain experiences in life and this is why we're here on earth you know to develop and to change our perspective and I feel today more than ever more and more people are ready to transform the core the essence which is the Maya I call the Maya meaning the illusion that the mind creates and I think freedom then is obvious you know it's like Buddha experience you know if if you're attached to the negative perspectives of the mind fear worry stress then you're not free if you like all those aspects go then there is a freedom that can't be spoken about because if as soon as you start speaking about that freedom you're placing some perspective on to that freedom that limits the freedom because it's a human perspective this is why for example in Sufism and in the mystical traditions of the Middle East people don't like to put names to the divine you know like they reflect aspects of the divine as important but they don't actually say the divine is this and that is the ultimate because in the end when you are in the space of freedom then you don't need to you know say I'm here look you know this is where I'm at because you know then you are in the middle of something that is so beyond understanding you can only express it in your attributes like Mother Teresa or Gandhi where your actions speak louder than your words and for me you know freedom goes beyond words this is why I wrote the book you know beyond words because there's no word to explain you freedom in a way in true freedom is when you know the self is not there anymore or not dominant you know with its noise and and but you know here we go in the moment through a phase in the West of we are all hit by this enlightenment Park everybody is on this journey towards somewhere where they feel more happier and blissful and just talking to you and reading your books is made me actually realize to a much greater depth we have to take nature with us into the picture which hardly any of you know I had so many interviews but not many people talk about that aspect yes yes and so that's one thing the beauty how you bring those two together and yes and you're teaching in that but then the question which arises is isn't what we see a reflection of our mind of course so then we are not focusing and saving the planet of course I realized I had such an idea I need to save the rainforest but actually you're saving the rail rainforest or saving whatever the planet saving whatever your passion is by being yeah and that is the mystery of the alchemical process you know it's not out there you don't need anything specific that you you have to do I mean you you do need to do things I'm not saying you know you just sit down and do nothing but it has it must come from a different perspective of I need to go to that place and do this to save the rainforest so I realized that my journey to many places not just the rainforest to the Zen Buddhist monastery and to the many parts of India and around the world where I met wise people in the end was just an invitation to reflect back in this moment the reality that I was needing to understand so you know your question is how do you know to change that perspective and you know if you want to save the rainforest how can you do it from the perspective of freedom I think you know that is impossible to answer because when you are free yeah everything that you do then channels that universal beautiful love that is nature and you become so powerful you know not from an ego sense but you become so powerful in your actions that you influence much more than is possible from the perspective where you want to conflict with certain situations so that you can change what is happening around you so this is why Mother Teresa for example you know she or she did was some very simple beautiful actions with people that she didn't sit back and do nothing her karma yoga so to speak or her selfless service was real yeah but it came from the perspective that is so much more powerful it's a free perspective you know and I believe it was it she was basically you become a tool exactly exactly the universe exactly through nature or the absolute exactly do totally change yeah and to channel that beauty and love which then allows for miracles to happen and I think we need a miracle in this world today that were you know where we're facing so many interesting challenges and the miracle doesn't have to come from one person or one perspective I think it's a group consciousness where as humanity we realize that together from that perspective where we are able to channel love when we are able to channel what is an essence so beautiful and so good everything changes we just we create a quantum leap into a perspective that we can't even see from where we're at in this moment and this happens you know to everyone you know you can imagine you know when you're a teenager and you see the world in one way and you know everything is so intense and powerful and you see things in patina inch way which is beautiful and then look at how life changes you know as you have experiences and you adapt and change to whatever life is teaching you see everything changes everything is impermanent and in the end we have that experience but in people want to hold on to one perspective and if we are just free enough to let go of the old and invite the new and the new is you know that perspective on freedom and as you as you mentioned earlier how difficult it is it is to change a habit it is and in particular this whole survivors everything I mean so many people out there in the moment because of the situation running on their survival fear of surviving yes how can you tell them to let go how can you tell them how do you do that what do you teach Tony yeah how do you wake up keep it up I tell them come and experience meditation you know because the first step is consciousness come and sit in a space where the chaotic mind and the chaotic situation that you're seeing on TV or reading on the news just takes a backseat somewhere or just you let it go for a little while yeah and observe what it's like to sink into a different reality you know you cannot explain you cannot force people to see this you can only allow that experience to happen so this is why for me meditation is so essential it's so simple you know it is simply a technique of focus where you focus on something that allows the mind not to drift off here and there and everywhere into all the worries stresses addictions but you know the mind likes to go to to control it and to stop it and just see that there is something beyond that struggle that can allow for freedom now I can't put that in words that's why it's an experience this is why I say you to sit and meditate for 120 days you know it's not enough for 20 minutes one day to experiment to see if it works or not because the deeper you go it's like a dream you know the deeper you go into the dream the more sense it makes and when you sit and meditate you find quietness you find stillness inside of yourself and behind that stillness in that stillness there are some perspectives that you can explore and you know for some people they're lucky but you know it happens immediately they just say wow I understand for other people it takes a little while you know like cigarette smoking you know for some people they can stop smoking cigarettes in two days others there is a bit more of a struggle doesn't mean the ones who take a bit longer you know are more backward or odd you know somehow less developed or less conscious it just means they have more to learn and it's more exciting so the journey if continue it for four hundred and twenty days becomes more interesting because you begin to see much more than just I need to stop smoking and this meditation is something that people have practiced throughout the ages and there is no time in the world today because you know I see even coming here to the studios you know people on traveling the underground and on the train you know they're so fast there is no time so you are running around the planet are you coming down I am I am do my meditation not actually traveling I still do travel I travel in here to London but you know I think people the Internet and TV you know and media is such a wonderful tool and for me that becomes an easier way to reach more people and I think that people listen and hear and feel the importance of such in technology today you know on YouTube there are so many wonderful videos conscious TV you know it's it's much more normal you know it's a much more real thing and don't you think there is also an energy which is supporting that exactly exactly and on many levels generally I hear that you know peace for example you know in the old days it was all about traveling and speaking and dialoguing with one another but now the media can play a role that is amazing you know if if conscious you know not all media is you know aware to do that and can help change situations before they develop into conflict and you know that is my deeper intention today it's you know how to bring more harmony to the world to the maximum amount of people without you know having to do so many things as I used to do in the past like you say travel every week to one place yeah and then to another place and I believe that you know there is an energy that is supporting that transformation people are looking today and searching more actively for something that they know but quite don't quite understand and I think the media is the way forward so I focus much more on the Internet I still work with people of course yet also traveling you know it's difficult because you know I don't want to just support people for a few moments you know one day workshop or a satsang you know somewhere I want to support people in a way that is more continuous and and it's impossible for me to be in all those places at the same time on this physical level so you know it's important then to utilize technology so this is what I'm doing and I think many people are doing this you know consciously and it's a wonderful thing like the work that you're doing you know you're bringing a different perspective to the world you know into people watching from wherever and how to practice that in their daily lives and that is important for me you know people don't have to go to India or South America to find something you know it's just switch to computer you know you you you you have mentioned in your book the longest journey we have to make is from our head to our heart that is what helped you to drop into your heart I think and this sounds funny I think suffering suffering is just here to help of our heart yeah I always had this feeling and you know I say that just because you know some people may be watching say oh it's easy for you Tony or it's easy for all those people who have the time to meditate or have the time and knowledge to practice certain techniques to get to more and more free space but actually suffering when when embraced you know from a conscious perspective and we're all conscious you know we just don't know when engaged and worked with from that perspective I feel invites you to be more human you know and this is what I like about people like Mother Teresa or the Dalai Lama that they're so human it shows you know and you don't have to call them enlightened because just what they are you know shows that they're free you know and I think without suffering you know it's difficult to see how to be human you know and this is perhaps why we're here you know to embrace things from such a beautiful perspective no matter what the situation is it makes us unique you know conscious human beings are amazingly powerful and I think you know everyone can be conscious simply by embracing everything that they are not hiding not running away or trying to live up to some sort of perspective that is alien to who you are but just being yourself and that is that is coming back to the heart you know like children never been so I remember a story I was reading in one of tiny Lamas books many years ago in order for him to open his heart and find compassion he went to Hiroshima degree with the suffering well and death help it open his heart and brought him to compassion well yeah I agree was it your own suffering which helped you well it wasn't quite my own suffering I grew up in Egypt and in places where suffering through poverty was much more obvious yeah and I asked myself do you know why do people have to suffer in this way do you know why I began to question everything really what is the meaning of life why is there this pain and suffering you know for me life was quite easy yeah because I I had everything but I I wasn't happy with just the selfish selfish satisfaction of needs I wanted to understand how to make a difference to those people that were right next to me you know and I think that opened my perspective in a way that just remained forever as a core part of me you know not just to focus on me but how how to make a difference in the world yeah and I didn't know you know as a child but it's part of my personality you know to to understand how to alleviate suffering and I like the Dali Lama when you see it and you you're open to it and you understand it and you understand that you know it's not enough to buy a new car or to do whatever to feel happy you know there is much more to life you mentioned we need a miracle before which is true and you say the heart is the heart is what makes a human being a hero and I think we need heroes definitely and I totally agree with that we are all heroes in the end just don't know it you just never know it and they have to embrace that action you know and it's such an amazing gift to be alive today in this world no matter what it is going through and you know just by being a life to all that is going on that's a heroic journey in itself right yes because there are lots of scary things going off for sure for young people for everyone yeah and also in yourself scary feelings and the fear and just to embrace everything as nature exactly the harrowing exact thang and it's possible it's but do you know somebody no it's good to it possible everyone can do it yes if you put your mind to it and that is through meditation through focus so that you don't get caught by the games that the line plays so another thing I want to ask you which I found really interesting is you say breathing correctly is saying yes to life and therefore becoming free in our body and I'm very interested in that because I reading a lot about the nervous system in the moment and how to bring peace into the body now I can experience stillness up here and drop into this voids and you know into into silence but you know in my daily life I experience my body's just reacting to certain things yes how how do I find please not only up here but also up here and it's not enough understanding it here yeah I need to go through an experience yeah the body is a mirror you know I see when you go to the supermarket and there is that Friday stress where everyone is rushing around now even if you're at peace you know you pick up yes things and this is my native people and people who live in more natural beautiful surrounds and say that you know it's madness to be in in the world today and the body is definitely influenced by such and just the technology stress of you know radiation and noise and pollution and whatever you know creates a reaction in the body which I believe moves us away from that inner stillness or inner balance and that is why I focus on the body as being the temple you know the structure that maintains the possibility for stillness in the mind and in the emotions how to transform that that is through the breath you know we know yeah because you also say that you can see in the way we breathe our our limitations it takes a night because you know the breath is the closest reflection to the state of the physical body you know if you're stressed you breathe quickly if you're relaxed or dreaming or in a state of consciousness where you're happy you know your breath reflects that yeah so if you're conscious and if you're able to work with the breath to relax the breath to a state of harmony then the body takes that as the real reference rather than the pollution or the noise or the stresses outside and that becomes like a mantra you know that you focus on all the time whenever you feel there is disharmony in the body so you know one thing that I teach and I hope people can teach this at school and you know in in hospitals and in places where you know people are dealing with much more physical stress than then is normal you know just breathe in take a deep breath in the diaphragm you know relax the diaphragm and breathe out and take a moment just to since what it's like to let go of the physical stress notice how your shoulders realize so you breathing deep breath yeah deep breath deep breath relaxing the diaphragm and then breathe out out and when you breathe out notice how your whole body just relaxes and that state of relaxation is essential for the quality of health that the body needs to be free you know you can't say oh yes I'm free and then you have your body you know all tightened stress because of whatever is you know you have to be able to reflect that in a more conscious way and I believe the breath to be essential this is why in yoga there is pranayama which is the science of breath but there is no need to go so deeply into breathing it's a simple matter of letting go of stresses when you do that I think your body relaxes and comes back to a state which is much more joyous you know it's much more easy to feel happiness when you're relaxed than when you are stressed and I think this is something that anyone can do okay I forget the bracing because it's something so like I forget that my heart is pumping it's something so so normal exactly yeah and you know of course yeah it's a it another habit the way we breathe and to change this habit do we have to go through a period of no no to change that habit the problem is that in the West we're so much in the mind that is where the energy is we have to bring it back down to the body so the breathing is a reminder for the body to to be part of what's going on you know your life to be alive you know and this is why native people you know when they see Western people walking you say my gosh did you know where are they would you planet are they on because they're not here on earth because do another way they are walking is not grounded and you know when you breathe in that deep relaxed way you know you realize I have a body I can interact with my body in a way that is not just reflecting the stress I can show the world that I'm happy you know like your partner you know if you're if your body is relaxed you can embrace them with that joy and relaxed body they feel it and you feel the connection to the physical realm because we are manifested here on this physical realm we have to ground ourselves here and I feel the breath is the first step to to remember the body and I think when you remember the body several times oh yeah I've got my hands oh yeah I've got my feet and walking on the ground you know it becomes more an automatic response to how you experience the world you slowly ground yourself in a way that it is not normal in the West this is why in Zen Buddhism part of the meditations are called walking meditations when you listen to a rhythm that can be the rhythm of the mantra that you're chanting or an external rhythm and you walk in a way where consciousness is manifested through your action you know your physical action the way you touch the earth the way you show your body to the world I think this is very important this is you know a matter of practice and the more practice the easier it gets so Tony do you have your own practice you do on a daily basis or of course I think everyone has their own practice so I never said you know this is the way you know you have to do this and you have to do it like this everyone is unique every human being has a personality has a perspective has such a wonderful way of learning there is you shouldn't push it aside and then say no this is not right and this is the right way to do things but for me meditation which is in a much wider perspective just relating to the Harmony of life rather than the distractions of the mind can be put into practice into real practice so perhaps saying to yourself every three hours I'll take two minutes just to breathe and to look at the world from a different perspective you know you have to remind as you said in the beginning you know yeah if you forget you have to have reminders and the reminder can be you just saying to yourself I need discipline so this means I need to remind myself in the morning and the evening to sit in meditation but then that sitting becomes the meditation that carries on in you know your daily experience and even in your sleep you know if you meditate for 20 minutes before falling sleep you know the mantra that you repeat or the focus on some beautiful aspect such as poetry or a beautiful quality of the heart is carried deeper into your sleep and also in the morning if you wake up and you meditate then you start the day with a different perspective which you know goes beyond just the 20 minutes of meditation that you have as your practice so you know this is what I like to do I like to bring spirituality into life the way you relate to people the way you say hello to someone that you don't know you know your acts of kindness to everyone and your just your relationship to everything becomes a spiritual work so if you're Christian if you're Muslim if you're Buddhist you can continue your practice but then the quality the heart needs to be very much the most important aspect of that press vectors and for me you know I find it very useful to repeat beautiful mantras sacred sounds you know if you're a Hindu you can practice for example the sound of ohm and I usually say to people why not try ooh which is a cheer and this will fit a silly song it's a Sufi sound a middle-eastern sound but it can be anything it could be light which in Aramaic is nor you know and nor you know and we can say you know light night light so that every situation that the mind think thinks of that is worrying or limiting or dark or negative you know has another force that you can look reference to which is light or palm which is the creation of life or if you're a Christian you can you know chant something from the Christian tradition if you're Muslim you can charge something from the Muslim tradition it's up to each person in the end it is like Kabir says you know there are many ways but in you know there is only one real way and that is the way of the heart and I think if you are truly real and you're you know coming back to your heart then it doesn't matter what the practice is you know it's your action that counts yeah it's beautiful I'm just looking at the clock I think we have to finish I wanted to talk with you about children and we might do another interview on such a big subject that is averring what but also the light for it and why it was lovely to talk to you Tony and to have you back in your busy schedule and I show you talks again about you um so deeper than words and those books in those books you find Tony's teaching from now the village now and from the heart and if you would like to know more about his journey to become a shaman this is a fascinating one shaman's wisdom okay well thank you for watching conscious TV and thank you Tony doing with us and I will see you again soon goodbye you hello my name is Tony Samara and I'd like to show you a very practical breathing meditation that I find very essential in today's busy busy world take a moment to just sit down relax your body relax your shoulders make sure that you're completely free of whatever worries or thinking's that occupy the mind and come back to the breath take a deep breath experiment with breathing in deeply into your belly relaxing the diaphragm more breath more breath and then relax and as you let go of the breath feel how the mind and all the energy of your body moves to a deeper state of consciousness as you breathe out let go of everything feel how the face and the neck and the shoulders and the body just sink into a more beautiful more tranquil space know that your body's relaxed you can breathe even more take another deep breath a happy joyous breath where everything feels much more beautiful much more harmonious much more clear as you breathe out notice how your mind and the energy of your body with your out breath goes deeper and deeper to a space where you gently discover a sense of tranquility sense of stillness a sense of peace and embrace that from a perspective of joy perspective of yes this is now part of who I am the sense of relaxation the sense of beauty the sense of harmony is now manifested in my body and continue to breathe in and out in this beautiful way as long as you feel comfortable and perhaps carrying on that intention throughout the day and every time you find yourself lost in the stresses and the actions of the mundaneness coming back to that tranquility slowly when you're ready coming back thank you well my childhood was quite different for me looking at things I was very sensitive very aware of many things so you know whatever happened around me influenced the way I felt so if there was disharmony or um any pain or suffering I would easily pick that up so this is the reason why the herbal remedies that my grandmother gave me was great and because whatever I would feel it in my body so she would prepare natural medicines that actually cured these symptoms and that sparked an interest in nature and all its beautiful aspects including herbal remedies and I realized that there are many ways of doing things you know you don't just have to go to medicine and get a tablet you know there is there is a deeper aspect to whatever is going on in the physical body I started to look at emotions and why there is disharmony so basically my childhood was a beautiful childhood because you know I loved life and I was a happy child but I began to focus more internally than most children do at that age and so it started my spiritual journey in the sense that I became more conscious of many things that are not necessary for such a young child and as I was at the age of three for my grandmother was a beautiful influence because she she understood me you know and she understood my sensitivity and worked with that as grandmother's who love their grandchildren do so that was you know what supported my inner growth at that time and was the love and the support and the understanding so it was a positive experience and that was my experience from the beginning that spirituality is not something complicated but rather something connected to coming back home to an aspect that you feel comfortable and enjoy being in and that was the care of my grandparents especially my grandmother who who had time to do this my parents were very busy and and were you aware when you had contact with other children they were maybe different from you in the beginning though because you know every child believes that they don't look at that aspect of life you know they just believe that they're part of whatever is going on without separating I'm this or I'm that but in the end it became clear that the way I saw the world and the way I interacted with the world was very different by just observing other children around me you know they were very interested for example in what I call the visions that I had and the perceptions that I had around various topics and I used to be able to tell stories about these visions and entertain you know my little friends by telling them things that you know made sense to them because children know do you know when something is real or they feel when something is real but they were not able to see that without that guidance so it was like I always took that role of looking more deeply into something and then encouraging my brother's friends to to look into that level of reality rather than just you know perhaps what most children do which is you know entertainment you know watching TV or playing in the playground you know that was a more internalized depth what kind of visions did you have well I lived in many countries as a child and one of the places that I spent most time in is Egypt and Egypt is a my family work there Egypt is a very powerful and sacred place so my first memories of strong vision visions I'm sure I had more were of the people who used to live there the priests and the priestesses and the mystery schools and I didn't really know what I was seeing I was just speaking to my parents about what I saw in this different dimension and a lot of what I said you know wasn't just a story you know it had some relevance to history and to go back in the past exactly seeing things obviously in the present and new seeing visions of how things were in that place or in that country and the pigs I see because we live very close to the pyramids it's a very powerful place that does create this state of perception in some sensitive people where you go in easily into the past and perhaps also easily into the future and more deeply into the present I did that scare you tour as a child no it seemed natural seemed totally natural you know I thought everyone did the same you know I didn't realize that I was different but you know it's complicated because if you don't fit into the norms and like at school and in certain situations then you know you do feel a little bit alien and that started to be more obvious to me later on you know that even though these perceptions were wonderful you know they they separated me from the general feeling of growing up you know I felt much more a loner than some children even though I have lots of friends around me you know I didn't relate to so many things so easily except for as you mentioned my grandmother and some very interesting people who I met along the way because you were quite sick with me you had problems with the immune system I think with your with your blood yes yes I I suffered I have a genetic thing called thalassemia which is a type of blood disorder it's not a major one but it does if your emotions and your physical state are not so strong and does create this sense of vulnerability to sickness and so I went through an interesting experience as a child I was very active and very interested in in life yet you know I had to struggle with the health aspect of it the energy that I wanted to expend doing things wasn't always there so you know I may in bed meditating now I can say I was meditating in dinner and having these visions and looking into different aspects of my life and people around me because I had the time you know and I had the perceptions and the sensitivity to do that as you got older you got quite into reading didn't you very much like spiritual books very much actually not that old you know that 10 11 I found some books about yoga and that was my I found that fascinating because I could relate to a lot of what was being written in regards to spirituality because my family were not spiritual at all they were just you know interested in life and so I didn't have that reference point to you know communicate to so the books became a major help to to make me realize that it's not so strange that actually many people go through these experiences and to support that experience to go more deeply and to growth and I think this is important when you're our child when you're an adult you can look for it consciously but as a child you know it's very difficult to to go to a meditation center or a yoga course you know you're more dependent on your family life and their family and my family life was very very normal and then I know I think you moved to England and you've got quite involved left-wing politics yeah yes I wouldn't say did you know I was fanatic in that sense my my goal was that I saw suffering around me you know that that the world is not a nice place for everyone and I grew up in a very wealthy family and everything was perfect you know and I had everything that I needed and I didn't question anything but do you know after seeing that the world is not like my world you know that people actually suffer a lot I didn't find it so fair so I I wanted to change that and I felt that politics perhaps was a good way to do this you know because if the political system changes then perhaps the world can be changed on many levels and so I became quite involved with you know organizations rather than political parties that were there to create a more fair society I can really relate to that because I was very much the same I saw things weren't right and I thought the answer was you had to change the structure of politics and then things would be fairer I think people would be happier and I got very involved for time and then and then probably like you did much faster than me I realized that she that in itself wasn't the answer but I realize a lot of the people that were within those organizations weren't happy so you know that was my sort of big sort of opening to okay maybe there is a different way because if they're not happy and they didn't have that sort of structure within themselves how how can they change the world in a real sense was just more idealism than reality so then I wanted to change the world more deeply than just you know everyone gets a certain amount of money in a car in a house I wanted the whole structure of the world to change so that happiness and joy comes from living rather than just having certain items because I I realized in my life that you know wealth is interesting and it makes life comfortable but it's not it doesn't bring the deep Joy's that a human being needs you know to be happily alive you know it's a helpful thing but it's not it's not the absolute and then and then with your you were always moving as you said because you oppressed with diplomats and you moved to Oslo yes and there you got involved with a local Buddhist group yes so that was much later on in life I was fourteen fifteen still quite young there yeah and at that age you know as a teenager I feel that most teenagers need to fit in and I realized I really did not fit in you know I was so different that I struggled against that part of myself and and I was I would say a shame that my perception and sensitivity pushed me to a point where I was so different I was really trying to fit in and there was a struggle at the age of thirteen fourteen there was a big struggle within myself and I realized at one point that I can't change you know I just have to accept myself and that's when I started being very interested in in meditation Buddhism Zen Buddhism and when you are interested in something do you know somehow life guides you to those places where you can explore them more deeply so I got involved with a Buddhist group first a Tibetan Buddhist group and then a Zen Buddhist group meditation come easy for you totally it was totally natural thing and I realized that it wasn't something that I had to learn that that I actually practiced as a child you know I remembered many moments when at the age of three or four or five where I was doing meditation but just you know not consciously breathing in a certain way closing my eyes focusing in a certain way you know where the world the mundane world was not everything you know where you could go more deeply and that that's for me meditation do you know where you can go to a space that brings wisdom and clarity to consciousness so that you understand the big picture and that's when you're a teenager you need more structure and that structure I found in Zen Buddhism you know a very disciplined very clear way of how to do things certainly it's a very unusual thing especially these days for a teenager to find structure in Zen Buddhism yes yes and my family got very worried because I decided to go deeper and realize that you know this was so important that it's not enough to just practice you know an hour of meditation per day or do a weekend course I wanted to devote my whole life to meditation so I went to the Zen Buddhist monastery and studied with a Zen master Japanese Zen master called Roshi Sasaki and that was an amazing experience in California is until you've wandered telefono yeah and that was an amazing experience because it was so different from anything that I ever expected I had no reference point to you know even imagine what life would be like in a Zen Buddhist monastery except my determination to be free and to find joy and happiness inside look at that so you're kind of late teens and you're still he's still very young but you you've got this thought that you just said determination to be free what did that mean to you then determination to be free this means that your whole focus is really clear and for me you know my whole life experience showed me that you know the one real important thing is to be free of whatever is creating suffering distraction feelings of just not being connected to something greater and I didn't you know I read in books okay there is this beautiful sense of enlightenment there is this beautiful other world that we can work towards but I didn't have that experience in something within me and my determination was to come to that experience from within rather understood there was a potential there exactly and you were attracted towards that potentially saw the monastery as the way to realize that potential because I had no doubt in my mind in my heart that there's n master was totally free and I felt that to get to that point it's not enough to do this by yourself you need someone who understands the the points where you can get caught up in distracted you know wander off you need someone that can help you to go directly to that space and you know I felt a deep gratitude to be alive at that time when there was someone enlightened who could guide me in this way so that you know so you got to the monastry and I think there was 30 people living there yes including Linda kind apparently yeah so he was there but I didn't know you know because I wasn't into that you know famous public figures and but yeah later on was I don't know he was guitar no you don't do that in Zen ministry so what was the structure like in the one a very disciplined very Japanese you know where you get up early in the morning 3:00 3:30 and basically the whole day is about meditation so there is sitting meditation walking meditation and there are a few hours where you do the cleaning of the monasteries you know the garden the kitchen and I would say we sat in meditation most days for at least 10 10 hours 10 11 hours which is what worried my parents who had no idea what Zen Buddhism meant do you know they thought it was a cult and to sit down in meditation for so long to them seemed like some sort of brainwashing was going on do you know because they didn't understand why a teenager at 17 18 would be doing this but for me it was the space the structure where I could go to those places where you know it's very difficult to understand without having that monastery setting in life it's very difficult I feel to get to those places because there is so much else around it requires your interaction and your attention the monastery is very simple there is Zen Buddhism is a very simple way of doing things you know everything is done with what's the word with the sense of I don't know what the English word it but you know Beauty there is a sense of simplicity and beauty in everything that you do the way you eat the way you prepare food the way you very precise ice yeah and and I like that you know because it really helped you to focus on what was going on in that moment rather than you know thinking okay this for that and the whole structure supported that and everyone else doing this meant that you you had this amazing atmosphere that was so powerful for you to to be in that space and for a teenager you know that was it was something I'd never experienced so it was even more powerful because everything seemed so profound you know the people were amazing people the Zen Buddhist master was an amazing person the beauty of the whole monastery was just I mean I enjoyed it so much you know it wasn't like people say gosh that was hard work you know for me it was a great thing that I always see it as one of the most amazing gifts that they experienced apparently actually you were doing extra in noemi's book she was saying that you you would stay up late at night and do extra meditation yeah normally lights were out at 8:30 9:00 and I would stay up till 11:00 sometimes 12 doing you know what is called extra meditation and you you're allowed to do that next to the Zen masters room and I felt the energy of the placement do you know this was just necessary to do being next door to the Zen master and I just meditated for as long every moment every possible moment to come back to the space of what it means to be free and he also made a big decision there to be celibate for life as well which 18 years old is a is a huge decision to make I was behind that well I didn't want to be distracted by anything of the world and I'm very he's all in love very easily with someone very romantic very you know it's not that I don't like relationships it's the opposite so I felt that you know for me to go deeper I really needed to have the space and the structure where you know there wasn't anything else that influenced what what was going on in in me I wanted to dedicate my whole life at that point to just being in the monastery see you're very total weren't you total yeah looking back I can see how total no it's a quality I admire in people this thing's so total about something I didn't want anything to come in the way including you know what people thought my family they thought and money qualifications because my family wanted me to study at university er I just wanted to focus on what I felt was most important and I did you know I'm determined so you know I left home and that's what I did for a few years and then but after 18 months you actually decided to leave them on its trendy finally went to India is it difficult yeah that was a difficult decision because I enjoyed being there but I felt it got too easy and I like to set challenges up you know in my life I don't like things being too easy so but what was easy it was not that you know I mean learning you learn forever it's it never gets easier it actually gets more complicated but what was easy was just the structure was very easy for me because its support distorted you know I wanted to see how I could create that feeling outside in the world you know in places like India I went to India and in places like London do you know huh how can I carry that peace that I felt and experienced in the monastery into daily activity and in places where things are not so harmonious and that was quite a tough decision because it's not that easy I realized later you know when going into the world that you know it's not that easy and the Zen Buddhist master was letting me know that in a very subtle way you know that perhaps it's good to stay a bit longer but he understood why I needed to go so supported me totally in that so you went you went to India and I think that was right at the beginning you had you had your money stolen no no I didn't have mine okay what happened I gave it away okay that you you gave half of it away to someone oh yeah right next day thank you someone stole everything yeah that's right yeah the first part was I gave money away yes you kept half of it and then that was stolen yes that was an interesting experience in India yes not to have money of this quite a thing yeah I didn't you know I don't like suffering I don't like other people to suffer and where I went to in India there was a lot of suffering you know it was very it's very dramatic you know the poor and the rich and differences between people in the physical sense it's it's much more than I'd ever experienced before even though I grew up in Egypt where there is a big difference it's not to that extent I am so I gave money away just because I felt you know I didn't need it and I kept half like you say but obviously the universe wanted me to learn how to be you know more spontaneous and not to depend on you know going to a hotel and having a nice bed to sleep in so it helped me to travel around India in a much more beautiful way and actually I was supported and invited by people to be in places where if I had had the money I don't think I would have gone to those places you know it was an interesting brilliant you yeah which was my intention not to go as a tourist and just you know take photos but to to go back to the places where Buddha um experienced various aspects of his life and and just to see the sacred areas of India and I was I loved it and I loved not having the money because in a way that created a different challenge you know where you had to depend on more than just one thing in your life you had to depend on yourself and how you approach people and the quality of and communication with people you know and in India that is really you know if you're direct and open it's an amazing place you know you see another world which is very difficult to see from a hotel room or from you know from that space did you feel the piece growing in you during this time was it obviously a lot happened in the the monastery did you feel that process deepening definitely and I continued the meditation it's not that you know leaving the monastery meant that I stopped doing what was important it's just I continued in a different way in the world and I felt the peace was growing and I felt the structure of what I learned and helped me very much in the mundane world so it's not like I went back into the mundane and got distracted my focus was totally there but to put it into practice with people and I actually started teaching quite early do you know meditation so you know that structure helped me you know to work with other people have helped me to understand meditation in India um not so much ninja after okay here in Australia yeah so we've got a lot to get in say I'm gonna move you on a bits okay you went to Australia and I think he was studying marine biology at University there and then you had you had not so much to thought you had you had the real strong feeling that he wanted to go to South America to the Amazon area where he wanted to help save the rainforest so what was going on in you then well I studied marine biology as a as a way to be in the world because you know I was not making money so you know you have to create some sort of income in the world in the monastry you're supported totally but in the world you have to do something so I felt you know what can I do that actually is useful and nature because I love nature seemed like a good way to to to create an income and then I thought to teach meditation as a hobby as a part-time thing and studying at university was a great thing but I realized that my idea and the reality of the world you know it's not universities so academic in a certain way and it doesn't really address a lot of the practical problems so even though I studied Applied Science I wanted to do more and at one point I got invited by a group of people in Brazil to go and visit the set up there do you know a national park that was being set up in a very specific way and that to me seemed much more exciting than sitting in a classroom and writing down statistics about this and that and you know it seemed much more real so I wanted to motivate myself more by going and doing something in a much more practical way its conservation but that was my sort of yeah feeling and also I would say on a deeper level I was a little bit disappointed with the world you know you know to see that people just wasted so you know when you live in a monastery life is so precious and every moment is so full of many things and then in the world you know what you can see the opposite happening people are just wasting time I felt weighted of time by doing things that comes more out of ignorance you know just you know focusing on ego related aspects of themselves and so you know there was a bit of a disappointment not in people but just in that perhaps this world is impossible to change so let me find something that smaller that I can change rather than the whole big world yes let me focus on something that is more possible to change which I felt you know could be you know saving the Amazon rainforest you know anything and then you you got out you got you got out to South America and no me toques quite it's very very fastly who he talks about how you got in a canoe yet to go to a village and then one of the guys in the canoe was attacked by some killer bees and stun and everybody else in the canoe was laughing at him and you thought actually this was quite cruel of them but then thought it was a bit schizophrenic you had a realization a few days later didn't you but you know it's very funny when you live in such an intense place like the rainforest the rainforest is so overwhelmingly strong do you know the elements within the rainforest the air and the space you don't really think very clearly so I sat in the canoe and thought okay let me just go and see you know where am I going to end up you know at that point I had a little bit of doubt I thought you know this is a very strange place I need to perhaps go back you know and do something more more in not not in the community of shamans but more you know outside on the periphery and but I just went deeper into the rainforest and went to the village and realized that actually the reference point was that the native people relate to the world in a totally different way just like children do you know their whole perception of the world is so different and I understood that that difference meant that they trusted much more what was going on then civilized so-called civilized human beings the mind that is civilized tends to create this distinction you know which I call separation between what is really going on and what goes on in the mind and so we're always you know jumping ahead of the situation by thinking into the situation that's something will happen and the native people are much more like children they just seem to go on into a space that's much more expensive so they don't it's not that they don't think but they think with a different energy it's not so much from the ego it's much more in the moment and I know inclusive of something things either isn't it exactly and the laughter is not you know like people laugh at you because you're doing something silly but the laughter was more that you know they trusted so much what they call Mother Earth and that you know they believe that whatever was going on as an experience was supportive rather than like in the Western culture we believe that nature somehow is a threat to our well-being because we're individuals and we're separate so we have to navigate within the dangers of nature or are aligned in a specific way the native people embrace much more so they're embracing the experience by being joyous which I feel is an important aspect of spirituality today is what I teach you know you know spirituality is not a serious thing it's about embracing reality from a sense of that openness and that joyousness and that love that I somehow perceived in that moment not from the intellect but just from what was going on because it was such a powerful experience I think soon after that you had the realization that you hadn't come to help save the rainforest whose can't help save yourself you always think that you're you know doing something for other people but it's a bit like a relationship you know you know in the end the deeper you go the more you realize that there is so much more to it and than what you first thought um and yeah so I realized that I wasn't there to do any of saving the world or saving any aspect of the external but it was really to come back to a more profound aspect of myself and yeah so it was to save a part of myself I think if I hadn't done that I would have been very depressed about the state of the world so it was in a way a survival mechanism you know the living conditions out they were very tough to learn tough but actually you know when I walk around London I think it's tougher it's tougher in the sense that people have to deal with that outside is easier but the inside is tougher but people don't realize how tough it is inside because that there is so much on the outside that distracts them from really seeing what's going on and the native people the inside is so easy but the outside is much harder so it's you know it's it's not as tough as it sounds in the book that's just it's easy you know when you live there you don't think of anything else you don't think this is if you could accept like you always do and you kind of fell into their way of living of course if you have resistance it's you know then you are in total separation to what is going on and you you I don't think you would last more than a few days because you were actually traveling from village to village to buy canoes yes yes and you would wait sometimes up to a week for the next canoes right it's you know like London bus waiting masses cover once but so you were really on you were really on a journey without without a timeframe once you definitely and that's possible in South America because you know everything is you know built that way you have a hammock and you can put up your hammock anywhere you know there is this sense of people look after you you know it's a it's a community sense so you know everyone who has a house lets you sleep in their house you don't have to pay I mean it's nice to pay money but you it's then it's a way of helping each other and so it's easy to travel and you just do a little bit of work or you pay a little bit of money and it's so easy so there is not that sense of you have to do everything in one way you know you have to go here and there and everywhere in one week you know time changes and you don't even realize you don't have a watch you know you don't realize you know the time is measured by sunset sunrise and so it's a whole different world and it's a very interesting world you know I can understand why the native people find it very difficult to come into you know the more modern society because you know here time is so specific and there it's a much more yeah you follow much more than rhythms of nature and you know it a watch and you had a very important experience which we're talking before the interview started seems to be quite a transformational experience do you want to just talk about that it's difficult to talk about because you know such an experience is so profound sometimes yeah I write poetry and sometimes I find poetry can create a feeling which is much closer to the experience than words but basically my whole world fell apart you know what I believe to be a physical structure within myself just was totally destroyed and this in shamanism this is called you know like a death experience so it's like a little death and so it's almost like what happens to everyone we all die at one point at least in the physical sense and everything that you believe and you hold on to becomes its put out there and you have to really face it your physical body or attachment to your physical body your mind your emotions so it was very strong because you know it was a whole experience in in such a short moment the oneness it was saying in the beginning in the beginning in the beginning fear okay and the fear of letting go you know the fear of disintegrating into this sense of oneness it wasn't very long but the fear was very strong and I think this is what we all feel perhaps do you know before death do you know the fear of I'm not sure where I'm going so you know you want to hold back a little bit because of the unknown as' of going into that space but the power of the transformation that was going on meant that I couldn't hold on to the fear forever I had to keep going and then the experience of oneness happened because actually it's but I believe this is what happens during the physical aspect of death that you know once you let go that it's actually quite nice you know it's not that you know the fear is just a mental projection of what you think might happen but actually when you have the experience it's quite nice and then there is this sense of oneness and from that sense of oneness I could understand you know the beauty of our connection to everything to the elements to the trees to the universe and I would say you know this is what people write about or I've spoken about in the past this to be like a little a little enlightenment you know a glimpse into another reality which we never really access because the mind doesn't allow us to get to that point and you know when the mind disintegrates you know you have to go into the space that you are normally living in in the real space that you're normally living in I don't believe we live in the mind or the emotions I just believe that to be aspects of ourselves believe there is a core and so you go to the core and you find that this you say it's a glimpse of experience do you feel that has deepened as the years have gone by totally that meant that I didn't have fear which is you know one of the main main problems that most people have I believe we have fear and this sense of low self-esteem so the fear doesn't have to be very specific on frightened of scorpions or snakes it can be much more vague but you know it really creates this sense of the ego wanting to be in control so fear usually results in you wanting to control the situation in a much more obvious way so then it creates a certain way of thinking a certain way of being masks programs programs meaning ways of interacting with people and furthering a wave from what is natural inside of you so when that fear is not there there is no reason to maintain those structures because it's you know it's it's useless so so you were feeling the structures gradually to fall away totally and so what did you feel what was revealed is the structures fell away I think - you know shorten the answer I think slowly you come back to what I call the heart which is what Rumi you know the poet knows about you and you come back to not just the personal heart but more the heart of all life but it's a journey you know it's not like everything happens at once you know it there is realizations here realizations there but the consciousness a reference point of your consciousness is not based on fear or ego you know it's based on that opening that is happening so you know you you experience a much more profound intimate relationship to everything in life and because it's enjoyable you know it's always enjoyable to go more deep then I think you you never think of going back you know you've just moving you move more into that space of opening up letting go more of whatever mundane ego thoughts that you know usually entertain the mind so it's it's it's like a relationship where you go to some deeper Tony when you when you have these mundane ego thoughts - use your words their entertain the mind is there an awareness of not going with those thoughts or is it those thoughts just don't even the rise in the beginning there is an awareness not to go with those thoughts so you make a decision something deeper makes a decision exactly some not to go there yeah because if you don't know you don't make a decision you just go there because that's yes and that has to happen but if you know then there is the energy which is moved away from fear now can be used in a very disciplined way to go and be clear where to go so that you don't get caught up so it's not a battle but it's more about intention you know of do I need to go into that space anymore why do I need to be there yeah because you see it more clearly mmm you know why should I go there and then it's like an intelligence arises even a versa intelligence okay that is what is interesting you know the universal intelligence within you begins to guide you and decides you know a more more useful way of being in the world and ignorance so we only actually have about ten minutes left so and we and and I know that that was also being in the Amazon was it was incredible catalyst and because you learnt a lot about shamanic healing and herbs and energy and that is what you do in your life now so just tell us a little bit about your work now these days how you incorporate it not only what you've learnt practically but also what has happened energetically and transformational in you okay that's another big question so I'll be a little bit brief I have no doubt that what I need to do in the world is work with people and I love working with people and I love you know being there in the same way that many people have been present to me in in my life and in my spiritual journey so my whole life is dedicated to teaching meditation but in a very specific way so even though the book is about shamanism I learned a lot about shamanism and I use various techniques of shamanism but I incorporate those into a very specific way of meditating and I use specific mantras which are sounds sacred sounds to come back to this sense of oneness because I believe that by doing that by me working with people and guiding people to do this that we change the whole world completely you know because it's one person can make a big difference for everyone and so you know if I work with a hundred people or two hundred people I believe that changes the reality that we're facing in this moment so my work has is eclectic you know I I use my experience from the Zen Buddhist monastery from the Amazon forests from the Andes but it's very specific you know I've created a format which is couldn't be an anthropologist winter what I do is purely shamanic and it would be much more about understanding the sense of oneness with everything in the world and so a lot of my work is now every Wednesday I do what is called satsang i use sanskrit words because you know english doesn't have the possibility of explaining what it means and i explain various topics in a way where the perception of that topic is from oneness rather than just from psychology or from you know judgment or from ego so for example i like to talk about relationships because i feel they're very important or children or the environment but from a different perspective so that meditation isn't just sitting quietly you know in in a room and closing your eyes and meditating for 20 minutes but how to put that into practice in london in the amazon forest in the mountains in germany in wherever you are you know how can a modern human being you know in civilization use these spiritual wisdoms in everyday life you know in a practical sense you remind me of one of my favorite terms being man in the world but not of the world somehow you're in the marketplace exactly but you're not distracted exact by all the dramas the marketplace interesting yeah there's no need to you know run away from it so do you feel the process ongoing in you in terms of or do you feel you've you know it sounds a little bit egotistical if you say yes I feel that I've reached the point of completeness and anyone who says that I don't really know if they if that can be the total truth because I believe a human being can never reach the point of completeness you know because we are very specific in the physical form at least we're very specific so I believe there is the opening to the divine but we can only relate to the divine in a human way so we're always learning you know and when we stop learning then we cut we can't exist here in this physical realm so even the most enlightened people like Buddha and believe they still had moments of learning you know perhaps in a different way but moments of learning and so I don't believe anyone ever stops I had an experience at 27 which was I would call an enlightening experience a profound enlightening experience but that wasn't the end that was just the beginning yeah is this process of integration isn't it that is exactly exact is so important because something can happen that you should we still have a life to live as she'sa beings and that's what I love you know as a human being you can do so many things you can get married you can have children you can work and you can integrate all the wisdom in all aspects of life you don't have to be specific sitting in a monastery which is wonderful but you know that's not the only way and that's why I'm so interested in being in the world teaching you know in London teaching wherever in a big city because I find it's important to share in that weight you know in those spaces you just mentioned marriage and of course you did we should just clear this up that you made the vow selespeed yes had 18 and then obviously something happened a few years later yeah yeah and I just realized that you know if you find the right person you know it's not a problem to be in a relationship because then like anything there is a support and I found the right person yeah it's wonderful you kept the vow until you found the right person that and it took a while yes and that's a discipline in that is tremendous for a young healthy male who's attractive looking young yeah it's it's easy you know I think when you're determined you don't have another option you know you you just want to follow through you're feeling you know of determination so that becomes you know in itself for support in the beginning maybe it's difficult it was difficult in the beginning but and you know once you're doing what you need to do you just do it I get I get the feeling now that maybe your determination is less personal it is and it's more I know there's such a phrases you know you know as a universal determination but it's more it's more in that way I'm told that my life is much more easygoing as a younger person I was very disciplined in what I did and very methodical no I just I'm easygoing but I'm very disciplined I there I still sleep only three or four hours and I work all the time for my books for whatever so for someone that was quite sick as a child you really really found balance yeah I'm not sick anymore I think the miracle of following your heart you know changes everything even the physical structure yeah Tony I really appreciate you coming along and talking to us at conscious TV it's been fascinating to hear your story thank you and I'd like to recommend Tony's book shaman's wisdom which is very much about his work and then the book written about him by know me Sharon which is half about his work and also half his story which is really fascinating and thank you for watching conscious TV and I hope we'll see you again soon good bye you

Channel: Pure Unintentional ASMR

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Id: 9cA2KlV8zyQ

Length: 112min 30sec (6750 seconds)

Published: Fri Jan 10 2020