The Avila Brothers • R&B MONEY Podcast • Ep.57

[Music] money [Music] take Valentine we are the authorities on all things r b ladies and gentlemen my name is tank Jay Valentine and this is the Army money podcast the authority on all things r b oh all inclusive Inc r b is worldwide Ah that's why yesterday oh man Janet Jackson see Billy Ray Make some noise [Applause] your Spanish is better than ours bruh yeah listen bro thank you man thank you man we we do this in passing yeah but you know to actually you know get into space and sit down man and have these cool conversations this is beautiful man this is laid out man I feel like I'm at the crib man I have to dress it up like I was kind of Rich too rich people was coming um yeah man thank you man we can't thank you enough man for giving us your time man this is beautiful and we have so much ground to cover man yeah with you guys it's been 30 plus years yeah of success [ __ ] exactly and [ __ ] tomato cat man what like what what do we stop Valentine like where do we go like man I think we I think we go to I think we probably start with pops yeah that's where it starts yeah I mean man like man yeah I gotta I Gotta Give us give us give us the lay of the Lamb man about this how this thing works and how you know two Latin Brothers yeah yeah get into this r b thing yeah and and just you know the journey and the challenges yeah yeah of you know I mean because it's not like y'all were making Spanish music or Latin music or yeah I was making r b music that was what was in the house yeah start there we'll talk about the house give me the house um you know pops was the interesting little pops man is you know he was a musician played keys and you know he was he was a mediocre player but he was the guy that had the equipment he had the gigs he had the relationships so he knew that he could put himself and dress himself up around great musicians because they all needed the gig yeah right so he was that dude he was like I'm gonna be in the band y'all will be great but I'm gonna have the relationships I'm gonna have the gigs I'm gonna have to work yeah and and that's what it was and so we were always around musicians in the crib and you know it was black music 24 7 in our crib there wasn't anything else it was Earth Wind and Fire Chaka Khan it was Donnie it was every all of that so that's what that's what we inherited you know that that became a part of our DNA and you know as kids you know they would rehearse it in the garage and our rooms are right next to the garage and so like you know we trying to go to bed for sleep man we can't sleep there and they're jamming so pass would have us go in the garage and just naturally he'd go sit by the keyboard player and I go sit by the drummer and that was like kind of how it got going for every night yeah every night them rehearsal my dad would sneak us into into their clubs at the gig and he'd make us he'd make us get up there and play on the break like get your ass in here okay you know so you know he just he had a vision man he he saw something that he wanted to instill in us and just push at all costs you know and he was crazy as hell and he was crazy as hell and um you know he he had a man he had an extreme tough life I mean we talk about this you know from time to time like the deck of cards he was dealt he did the best he could it's like he had the right intentions but just did it the wrong way but I'm 45 now and I could look back and say you know what pops however you did it well however you did it you put music in our DNA and we we can't imagine living without music in our lives of course you know so absolutely there's a call there's there's something to be said about that type of Iron Fist that that exists at that time in that era because now you see you see like a lack of it and we nurture in punks now you know what I'm saying so there's something you said about that Dynamic man and that's I think his heart upbringing is what allowed us to weather the many storms that we were going to get ready to Encompass through our journey it takes crazy you got to be crazy it takes crazy yeah to make it in this thing yeah yeah it really does man because there isn't there's no truly there's no real form or anything and we're grabbing things out of the air that we hope that someone else likes yeah stranger you know there's nothing crazy out of air yeah well you know we talk about like you can't just wake up and say I'm a doctor at all you have to have a degree yes for some reason in our craft you could just wake up in the morning like Oh I'm a producer I'm a rat right right yeah oh my God I got this laptop I'm sorry my records you know I didn't make the NFL that's why we talk like you know no you're not a producer you know a reducer [ __ ] like learn your craft and the thing is in the game you know it's the the last thing you did get you to the you know years only as good as your last yeah yeah so but how do you even get there yeah but I think two roses looking at you know my dad's appetite for having this Vision that he had with his kids you know and pushing especially Bob pushing Bob to where you know Bob's 12 years old and you know gets signed to RCA you know it's just that was through my pops just the way he was chiseling that rock there there was no oh well pops we just want to go outside and hang with with the fellas play some street football no no no no that [ __ ] don't mean none here hmm you get in there and and you practice and and you work and you work and you work and so you know that that's that mentality is what has really throughout the years kept us locked in and kept our eye on the prize you know because I just you know we were kids at man it's like we got where where were you we're in reality like location yeah Rialto California okay yeah okay okay so It's like because I'm just like listening to the parallel between y'all I don't know this guy I don't know it's just like Bobby senior was Ron news yeah yeah same mentality but it had that drive and that hunger in that Obsession yeah yeah and it's like that you know it just drove greatness and it's like my dad had such an appetite to be that guy yeah it's like I'm gonna I'm gonna make them do it yeah and I'm gonna I'm gonna live through there let's do it yeah and that's you know that's that generation's mentality like at all costs yeah if it don't happen for me it's gonna put these babies yeah you damn sure nothing else matters you know and that was the thing I think too with him because my pops he you know he didn't get to have a childhood you know so here we are trying to trying to help him understand how how much we we just want to be kids too sometimes and he's like nah what the [ __ ] is the kids yeah throw that [ __ ] in the closet throw that [ __ ] in the closet you know yeah he was relentless yeah I mean and and you know nothing was shaking his direction of what he had in mind for his kids you know yeah and I think too one essential component to us was my dad's like best friend and he came from Andre Crouch and the disciples his name was James Felix and he he too was Mexican and he was from our area man the illest Mexican was so you'll ever hear crazy his voice and he was a blade he was a bass player for damn near Donnie like wow like that heart yeah that vibrato all of that yeah that just yeah that gear and so like they were listening to Steely Dan um total bunch of fusion weather report so we were growing up to like this is another day well done uh we expect you so all of that music naturally just came to us in our spirit so anything we touch it just was embedded in US yeah so you know with my pops and having that guy that really got me to want to explore singing writing and producing and for some reason I just connected with technology so I was like running SB 1200. we got videos of Bobby when he was like five and he's literally playing like chickaria you know that that's how that's how that's how intense it was in our household with just being around great musicians yeah you know it's like that's what we got to absorb you know when you're little man you absorb things like this and of course that's the best time for some strange reason yeah you don't have nothing else where you're gonna build and you don't have anything or any walls yeah yeah yeah you know what I'm saying it's like you're you're an open hard drive at that time yeah you're just information is coming in and you're I mean Bob was like a you know he was a genius you know he was doing beta testing videos and then you know I mean God is still you know what so how do you get there right like I get you know from the the family band your father being in the industry and you guys being around all these musicians but how do you get to the point where it's like okay we've identified that we're going after a deal for Bobby yeah because that's that's literally what happens you know yeah I mean my dad partnered up with the guy that he knew through my uncle and this dude was like synonymous with like writing we wear short shorts so my dad did a whole thing like you know and he was like oh we're gonna we're gonna get him in a better Studio we're gonna do X Y and Z so at the time he knew Jerome Gasper who was running a m records and Jerome was didn't know if he was going to be there or not but he said look I'll give you guys a time in Studio A yeah come up with a demo so we did and he ended up leaving and they brought in um John McLean so a m was not an option so I had this demo and it got in the hands of skip Miller RCA Records who ran all these legendary names and then Zach Voss who ran Motown so man I'm like first of all I didn't even know what I was doing singing in the studio but I you know we in the IE we had a lot of talent so a lot of the guys that played for like George Benson um booty there was a guy named Trey Stone who was like they were all from the ice they were awesome Inland Empire there you go Kenny Loggins yeah Sammy Hagar yeah [Laughter] um so you know there was like there was all of these guys around and so how did I get here like Motown and this and I was like yeah I was about the music I was like okay where's the next in Sonic coming out of Wednesday I was just really into that the technology part of it um so next thing you know man we've uh I'll never forget it I went to school and they said you know you're going to be RCA records I went to school my best friend asked me to walk home with him with this girl which I never do so we we we're I'm walking with them and this dude who broke out of prison I found out later goes and jams my boy up hits me with a pistol and he broke out of prison to see this girl who was this girl he was a he was a young boy like y'all though yeah and I'm like he was just on different type of time on a whole nother Plateau so I'm thinking he's got a gun I'm never gonna make it with my dad and my mom to this like to get introduced to the RCA records I'll never forget it I don't know how I got away I I don't even remember running I just it was such a daze to me and that night we end up driving to the Hilton to go meet all the executives and I see Kumo d and I was like wow that's wild wild west come on d That's How You Like Me Now That's Teddy Riley yeah and I was like a massive Teddy fan so I was like it just became fun from that day on then we went to New York it just was like it didn't feel like anything other than just I'm in music I'm doing what I love and they're making it they're making it work for me yeah and it was crazy that was that was like that was the real like okay Here Comes this journey you know wheels up and yeah it started there started there and then you know uh landed a tour with New Kids on the Block so look so you you got records out yeah yeah you got singles out yeah singles out you know you're cooking I was cooking we was cooking with some gas and you going on the road with New Kids on the Block the biggest group at the time you know I'm over here working out the dance routines I got I'm working with all the cats in the streets like let's get this show right yeah cause my that's the beautiful show right yeah see that but that was the pedigree of our dad he was like you gotta know how to talk in interviews and when you get on that stage you got to light them up yeah so all of that was just being dumped into it so you know we had you know Public Enemy in the streets at the time we had oh we special ed all the [ __ ] that was really popping and it was like okay how do we Infuse this we got to put a show together we rehearsing in the backyard like saying you know all that classic just bringing it together and refining it man so by the time we got on the new kids block uh the stage that new kids tour we was whipping ass I got a question though because I know what I got from your record deal what did you get as far as like you personally yeah yeah now what big Bobby you said it right well when I when I was 18 I had a CD account no no let's go back to school no no okay but now it was only nine thousand so yeah what I got was keep doing what you're doing and you better do it right that's a good question that's a good question though so let's talk about let's let's lift up the hood on that all right so come on there you know when you got a parent who's also managing there's also a fine line between that as a parent and a manager and nobody ever see nobody teaches the game of how you're supposed to construct that yeah so yeah so you just think well we're family okay you're growing up I'm taking care of you it all just comes in and I'm gonna go get this new beamer oh you need some Nikes all right we're gonna just go get you something all right okay yeah and Pops winning got himself a femur like that you know he's got some Air Forces but check this out and then the parents rebuttal is oh but we went on vacations we you know we we did nice things it's like okay but yeah like yo I should be building up some kind of reservoir tank over here with just some bread in there so when I get to be 18 I can go get it all right anything like because I love gear right so my if anything he gave me he provided wanted a studio so we got a console you know I was able to just be in the lab now so he facilitated all of that so my thing was like I don't pay no bills they're not on my on my dime I don't even know what they are I got clothes I got food is working and I'm working like Non-Stop like day in day out I'm probably spending like 15 to 17 hours a day wow and then waking up thinking about it and it's just right over here are you not in school anymore at this point no we're both of you homeschooled yeah that's great and my pops is crazy man I mean he was it was toxic in the house and you know it's crazy what's crazy as crazy as he was I mean my pops used to knock dudes out my dad is only five six bro I can see that five six I understand but yeah but when we were little he was like he was a giant giant yeah Hey listen energy anything under five nine yeah different type of survival yeah in their minds absolutely like you get a little you can start getting over five now you start chilling a little bit like okay because you because your size Matters under five nine no no no no yeah [ __ ] alone they've already calculated their disadvantage so they're going they walk around when I'm sick of this [ __ ] I wish he would they going for the kill early oh you you ain't gonna say no to me dangerous you can't teach size right so the size is like yeah all in here and that's just that was his Vibe like and he he figured out a way how to create his concoction and pour all of that into us you know so so you're going through it with New Kids on the Block yeah cheeks everywhere guys cheeks everywhere all of them man my baby and my my titties lied in the NPC and the SP 1200 I was so I was so there like I didn't see anything else so so here and here's I didn't I couldn't Baby Bro oh man he's talking to prostitutes on Broadway in New York like and they would laugh at me I was like but yeah with you come here yeah what you need but you know one of the gyms that my dad would always throw at us was if you're ever gonna be distracted it's going to be through a woman oh for sure stay focused yeah so the empires are either built or destroyed yeah so it you know in a sense that that really kept us from going straight and and wilding out yeah you know we just heads down man you know in the studio and stuff you know except when you was talking to the prostitute yeah yeah well you know how many cities did y'all do on new kids every city back then the United States like you know record reps would have me performing in nightclubs yup nightclubs and I'm like now I think about it because you know my son's 13. you they're trying to get some ass comes up playing a keyboard that they said let's get in here man [ __ ] oh that's cute and that's how they built up he's brewing in Philly but uh he's brewing in Houston and they go go to the record stores you know they're buying everything like oh there's some sales there yeah I know that I'll never forget being in the hood and Nike drops off boxes for us and we had like we were the only ones that had like the Nike sweat suits and we had Jays we had the ones tattoos as a kid bro you're saying oh you know yeah they deliver this to like you know you start experiencing the person yeah as you say that like New York accessor was one of my favorite drinks man cases like crates and that stuff uh oh BK is coming out again yep stuff Bridge knife so what were the what were the challenges though it's being young Latin Urban Department yeah I think for Bobby at that time it was always a challenge of how do we Market this kid right who's Mexican who's doing black music what is he where does he go where do we put him in what's familiar so you know it was it was that was always a challenge you know just not knowing where to place that type of talent because even though you know like you say you know y'all rooted in r b but they put y'all out with New Kids on the Block so they're already trying to figure it out yeah yeah it's not like we figured out a way to throw him you know get on get him on a new addition to her right exactly yeah yeah they were trying to figure out that that hybrid because they always knew like the Latin space was going to be huge that it was untapped right and RCA which I just found out I forgot they have a noodle I was about to say you're just gonna disappear so and you know don't be acting like menudo didn't exist right I know they made some groundwork you know even them and that was a challenge because because they had laid the groundwork it was like well is he comparable that do we do we fit him in a little bit you got to look at Bob's first album cover in the back he's literally 10 keyboards around I mean he was playing everything that like how do you how do we tell that story you were talented yeah Chucky's like oh man we always have we have a romance I love that dude yeah you know but yeah that like those cats so my grease came from a different space so anytime it got pop or corny I mean it was like that ain't me I'm listening to the Bomb Squad Captain hey shock lead and Premiere and PQ Harris I'm listening to like you was in it oh yeah like that yeah so what I used to and mind you RCA had their subsidiary or partnered with Jive so I had KRS one bdp miss Melody Dr ice Tribe Called Quest and like I said Teddy was like you know Teddy man Teddy you know that was yeah Big Daddy Kane called chilling like that was my information on top of you know Prince and you know the time and all of that so I had this hybrid and anytime it it got like well let's just do this song in Spanish I don't speak Spanish so it's like well let's try to do something and at that time I would see how they were trying to take like Selena put her in the pop world and try to force that and it's like the one thing about the black world is like if you aren't genuine and it ain't real or authentic hey tomato kids yeah get get on the other side so the great thing I was covered in a space that I was used to and comfortable with so it never came off corny because it was authentic to me yeah which is why I always ended up and signing with the black division so the challenge was how do we Market this right how do we figure out like and he's a young kid and he's doing everything so we don't know where it is to to it's Uncharted Territory where do we stick them yeah and that became a problem management pops you're not doing this you're not doing that it fell apart it fell apart and so you know they're like okay we're gonna put something out independent because you're not even in high school yet at this point no I'm barely 14. yeah Jesus that's a lot so yeah right so we're I'm off of RCA records we're trying to get something cracking Nike boxes ain't showing showing up anymore when the lights go out they go out you know but we got a new demo shopping around and then you know I'll never forget it Capital Records had the president hit hit us up and said you know we would we want to do this deal but we're told like not to mess with management so I was like so it's mad yeah my dad so man just like yesterday we used the proper term yeah but your dad yeah we'll rock with you but we we your dad man we can't really can't do it so we ended up putting together like a maxi single and we were at mastery with Brian the bass Brian Gardner at Bernie grumman's and you know he's doing his thing and he gets a phone call and it's Terry Lewis and Terry's checking on a project and how old are you at this point um 14 yeah okay 14 years old and so Terry is asking Brian blah blah blah blah when's it gonna be done then he hears it he said who's that and Brian's like oh this young kid you know mastered his other album back with RCA but he's putting out something independent and he said he doesn't have a deal he was like no well let me find out sorry hey guys uh is this independent or is there a record company because I don't see a record company on the on the call sheet he's like nah it's independent it's like why well because Terry Lewis is on the phone and he likes what he hears so I was like uh the Terry Lewis yeah yeah it's like Mortimer random cells turn those machines on those machines on and man next thing you know I'm in Minneapolis three weeks later New Journey and that that was where you know perspective was burst wait so where the phone bro it starts with you 14 years old start starts with me with four at 14 side of me as an artist yeah wow so then they saw me as an artist yeah that was on my rhyming [ __ ] so Bobby was doing the production I was on my rhyming [ __ ] and uh Bob gave my demo to jam and jam has his term they call it drive off the road music so he heard my stuff called and was like yo it's just drive off the road music Terry get get his brother to get his brother to it yeah yeah yeah so now I'm out there and it's you know new journey man whole new and how old are you at this time I'm uh he's 12 going on 13 because I'm turning 15. he's crazy but you know this this was a crazy thing so you know I fly out there to go start working on my solo record and you know you get the tour it's like Sounds of Blackness is is rehearsing in the back um make conditions coming in and out just kind of checking on things Steve Hodge who makes all the Jimmy Terry stuff just agreed to move out to Minneapolis to just mix in-house so I'm like so facto this is everybody that Fierce yeah that I love and you know Johnny Gill's on his way up and I'm like wow okay I had no fear but it was like you know you think you're ready sometimes you know like oh I got it I got it and a lot of times you aren't and I think just the pressure that my pops always put on me I just didn't have no fear and it's like cool it's Prime Time show up yeah folder focus and it was a different creative machine at flight time it was there was no looping or anything I mean they you you came in there they said the way we make records you play from top to bottom and Terry had this he had this thing where it's like like no song should sound the same way it ends so his his thing was always Dynamics yeah you know and a lot of people don't realize like when you listen to the jam and Lewis records when you hear those turnarounds on the drums and stuff that's all Jam doing it live you know all that stuff man it's like top to bottom you do your turn around drum feels yeah it was all talked about it and the thing that they loved was I was self-contained so they're like stick bobbing Studio C and I cooked and everything I would cook it was like okay Terry come in he'd write um and you know I was getting coached vocally from you know the guy and Terry would spend like two hours on one line that's how yeah he was he was relentless you know you do like a masters and a slave real and and you had 24 tracks to just do all these vocals and keep four and comp so after that it was like he was like hey we got a remix for Mo Money soundtrack you want to do it I was like yeah cool and it was just we were spitting it out on top of work in the record so when I started doing that I was like T my brother we got some crazy joints on him so I gave it to jam and you know that happened so everything started progressing at that time quick too very fast so is your is your dad with y'all my dad's with me and you know it Terry for me was incredible because I started Living with Terry and he saw the friction and Terry knew crazy any new karate like he knew how that [ __ ] worked and he was like pops man go cool out go see a movie I got this all right and what are you gonna tell Terry yeah and you know and you know that was the thing right when you would tell him he became the buffer yeah but he also understood my dad's component and he respected it like and Terry would always say like you know I'll always respect your dad because I I get it you know but you know and I think when I got signed my my joining up coming out before Bob's and you know now I'm running at the Gavin convention all that stuff when that was around in the bay you know we put out the record next thing I know Pete Rock's doing a remix so it was like I think that's what made the relationship you know incredible with Terry because you know I say this for anybody like I want you to know my truth my [ __ ] was nasty you know my first picture was I had a cast on with Janet Jackson and Janet Lewis my dad was crazy right so when I'm in the studio and I can't really write like I want to write that birth Big Jim right um yeah because I couldn't get I couldn't do everything I I wanted to do until my hand healed because of Pops so that birth Big Jim as a songwriter producer which ultimately went to I guess a lonely Yolanda Adams opened my heart so that opened up a door for him wow in the camp so that's how crazy it was and having Terry in our lives was like that's how you know important it was because y'all was already part of the writing and producing team so you know and then my joints started taking off and then out of nowhere man it came crumbling down because of my pops you know my Apostles yelling at people at perspective and they just saw it as you know it was just a hindrance to to moving things forward and he's working on his album there right and so it just one of my guys always tells me my brother problem always tells me so sometimes the juice is not worth the squeeze man oh that's a good one and honestly man that's a great way to put because that's exactly how it felt to me when it just came to a halt I just said okay I'm gonna let me go on it let me let me take my ass to high school let me be around some folks let me you still that young yeah yeah so I went to I went to 10th grade is when I went back to school in in Minneapolis uh back here you came back yeah no it just stopped we got to go home I was cool man and even at that time I started to look at things with a different different perspective when it came to music in our family I said okay we're paying the cost now to love this thing called music because it's taking a toll on the family and I had no appetite for it man I went back to school Bob stayed in many and Bob was faced with an ultimatum hey Bob it's either you're gonna stay here on perspective or you go wrong with your pops that's how that's how much chaos it was crazy I mean when Norman Winters who like synonymous as a publicist for off the wall and Elton John and the name you name and I know you you do it you were in it too yeah it was like you know they had to fly me out by myself and so um I'll never forget it I was in the car with Terry and we're driving to the studio and he was like hey Bob I know this is tough and I know it's crazy but can't deal with pops right now and you're gonna have to figure out what you want to do and he said artists come and go and they have their time but the ability you have is like me and jam and it's even better because it's all you you can have a career as a songwriter and a producer and a musician and write for others and I knew what he was telling me when I go back home it's a no win for me because if I stay it's got to be without him and if I don't it's it's without it's with him still and it's like it's tough right it was really tough so you know I made the decision I was like um at this time 16 going on 17. yeah and I was like and like Terry said you got to live there boy you gotta live there so you gotta you have to be happy too in in whatever way that means to you so I was like well I'm off of perspective then came home came home yeah so done and back to square one fellas that my that mode I just got no climbing right back up again back to square one man [ __ ] yeah that's crazy man do you go back to school you go do the the same thing too he stayed he stayed on it was independent studies he graduated uh yeah but stayed back in the garage cooking cooking man I'm at high school and you know I'm getting ready to finish High School man I I go get me a job I work at Best Buy yeah yeah yeah discount TV oh man Electronics yeah we sold the hell out of warranties so so and that's you know that's the thing because we're talking all walks of life is what we've experienced you know it was you know yeah the road the road of like poke your chest out that's only been alive for us for like 15 years but the Journey's been 30 years right yeah so and I think too just the being in the game because like we even didn't talk about like while I was cooking for him I was uh cooking for he started with me uh skilo I wish it was a little bit taller I produced him like back when I was yeah pops managed him my dad managed him yeah oh there was a girl Dominique so I was like the guy like I was like Teddy boy Rd I was like cooking for everybody so I had this like all of this in me and I'm going from deal to deal and it's like you kind of you're getting tossed around everywhere and the older I got you know I was I was a guy that always liked information I love to learn yeah so I would talk to Executives I would talk to guys around me who'd been in the game you know trying to figure out business plans because man I think I might need to do something by myself and you know my dad was relentless and so he was like we got to do another record because when you're out when you're the window moves if you're not in it you got to hurry up because they forget who you are so we put a record out I did a remake of Al Green's let's say together and we put it out independently and we got a lot of love Baker Boys at the time were hot in power 106. and those were our guys so they got that record to number one so I'm back you're not in the chitlet circuit or the burrito circuit I'm like prime time now sometimes you don't see that it's like another burritos yeah I love it right just I'm I'm opening up for the same guys you know the Tony's and everybody you know and at one point man it was like I can't I can't do this like I'm not loving it but I I still love it like I gotta be alone yeah and we had somebody in the family that was like man you gotta get out of here you gotta get out of out of your house you gotta there there's God got something for you different and man God put some great people around me I ended up living with a friend of ours who was actually kind of working with with us at the time in music with my dad and that same guy Norman Winters called him and I said hey man I would love to talk to you come to the office and it just because I had nothing at that point I was yeah and I'm 18. and I left the house with no bitter heart but just the one thing that I love the most more than myself was music so I got to keep going for it not to be popular just to have a career and do what I love to do so I had the mindset of like well go get the information and Norman went to show me a whole nother life of marketing show me a whole another life of branding and I was like this is why these record companies didn't get it and he told me couldn't work with your manager and your father and that's what prohibited me to continue saying you have that thing and I know you have that thing because I found Elton John and they took Elton John from me and I'm going to help you so man I'm in this different world now at this point and I'm trying to rebuild I'm learning Corporation talk come learning how to get structure in all of the business plans how to put that how to put business plan together trying to learn every facet of the game the way that I have been learning it as a musician I'm just trying to understand what the business because the easiest part we always say is by making the music it's the easiest part it's when you have to hand that craft of that baby over it sure yeah where does it go from there like yeah everybody goes oh I got a hit no you don't yeah they're going to tell you what you what you really have right you know so I went on that Journey and it was tough man I was alone and then I finally left the crib yeah he left the crib I'm like all right bro let's let's go you know let's start it up again so then at that point it became I'm not gonna be an artist I'm gonna be that guy that Terry Lewis told me in that truck so let me ask you a question as you're deciding to leave the house in both situations is that a conversation with your father like no they're actually through fallouts like we were actually I remember it clear as day the day he left we we literally got done we were doing um Grand night at at uh Disneyland we were the band for grad night oh wow okay um with this group with the group when we started dw3 dw3 we started so I'm literally leaving High School like my day at school go do the gig get home at like 5 A.M go back to school the next day like that's the grinder was and so I think was on our last gig at Disneyland we were in the car with my pops Pop's driving us home and Bobby was like I'm done I'm leaving and man that was the longest ride home at five o'clock you could get there back home in like 30 minutes but yeah and it was like time stopped man how could you betray me that all this I put years I mean it was that classic oh [ __ ] the lid just blew up right could you do this took me after all weekend and that was the start of his exit and mine came shortly after I would come home and I just hear my dad cursing my brother like your brother's never and and one day I just couldn't take it and when I was like man how long are you gonna talk about your son that way like get over it man move on and I couldn't take it no more and I had my blowout with him and I was like bro come pick me up I'm out wow and you know just couldn't take it anymore man you know it was it became poison it became my dad was bitter my dad was you know telling people that you know oh yeah he left me with nothing and you know just the Classic story you know and I'll never forget being on the phone with my pops at some point after that and him telling me you know yeah whatever whatever you bro whatever you and your brother think you're gonna do you're gonna fail without me just watch just watch and so you know that became you know feel you know and what's crazy because we haven't we haven't said yet but we're so close with our mom our mom is like our Rock to everything and so a glue because of the turmoil with my pops I remember not even coming around for at least a year or two because of my dad and so for us to not see our mom like was crazy yeah you know and I mean it was the air was thick for I want to say at least four to five years where we just couldn't we couldn't do it you know I couldn't do it couldn't be around him didn't want to see him didn't want to hear from them and you know it's like well you know we can't use that as an excuse we we got to get out here and and get into the trenches and you know I graduate once I graduated I was doing these side gigs with an engineer we had met during some of my sessions and his name was d-style and D style was working with it with a you know a new artist at the time who was Macy Gray and he would bring me in he would bring me in to do drums you know so I bring I have my little this kit that I still have had it since I was five-year-old five years old but it it had a spirit on it right it was all beat up raggedy yeah I used to take it apart I used to try to get it to sound like James Brown's drummer and it just had a spirit so D loved the way it sounded and he loved that I played hip-hop grooves so he'd bring me in and I'd start doing these sessions for Macy and one thing led to another she was like you need to come out on the road with me and I was like [ __ ] I'm broke let's go we had just got our apartment so I was like bro the premise of being in the ie was I'm never gonna lose myself in L.A yeah because it's too crazy right it's and and you know Prince thought the same way about about Minneapolis why live in Minneapolis and he would say to keep all the bad people away you know and that was the the concept to just protect what who you are yeah that's home front you know you know on all fronts so we did everything in the eye we built Studios Out There Our partner our new partners would come from the IE um you know I think it was like let's protect us here and then we'll go out to the world yeah so y'all y'all doing all this from from the Inland Empire all of it bro and yep are you at this point just completely focusing on writing and producing we're focusing on we're focusing on it all yeah how can we get where can we get a check where can we get a check Partnerships music songs okay so is had went out with Macy Gray at that time I had I was still on my you know uh I had we had met iced tea through a friend of ours um and so I ended up doing records for like you know uh for him Spice One the loonies yeah you know you had the alcoholics Point what are y'all charging a yeah a track man whatever we can get 2500 yeah man five thousand likes we made it but you say it almost like asking maybe you'll give it to you yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly yes yes exactly and you know we hear the deals like oh man we got we got 200 for this I'd be like crazy yeah like really right right because now you know I'm understanding oh bills are always on time and now they're late and now there is bills yeah so is gets a gig and it's like hey bro go do your thing this is the first time we're about to be apart apart yeah so you're 18 about to go play drums around the world because basically a world yeah yeah and for me it was like my first tour as a drummer yeah you know having a tech you know because she had all the white folks so [ __ ] was [ __ ] was different it was sticking out right you had a guy coming up to you sir sir for you we'll get you I'll let you know when it's all together to come out yeah and here's what's crazy exactly and what's crazy about that for some strange reason prior to that opportunity I had just got cases for all my I had a red Yamaha kit so I had just got cases and so my thing was like okay you know if I get some drum work Studio work like that's bread for us you know we just you know we're pre-smilling things right so you know I got that opportunity and that really being around the world you know I had I had an MPC 3000 with me as you should and so I started this regiment every every city I went to I go to the local record store and I'd bring back vinyl and and for me this was like now this is like okay my journey like I gotta figure [ __ ] out yeah yeah so that was the birth of of who I became outside of just you know what I was doing at the time was like you know putting the shows together yeah getting his show right and all that and so here I am man I'm like okay starting to figure things out starting to create and when I came back off the road I came back as a beast and it was perfect timing because Bob was we got to a point Bob was tired man yeah I got tired he was tired right so I came back off the road got a record for Fourth Avenue Jones I got Bishop Lamont I got all these cats and so that was really like the unification of what the Avila brothers were going to become because now I'm coming back with cannons and in this time while he's out we meet Buster Shivani producers who had at the time Kirk Franklin God's Property so we're at a studio that this uh saxophone player Trevor Lawrence had owned it's called Blue Palm so out of the blue I'm in the hallway playing as well it turned Shivani walks out of the studio that they had and he's like who are you and I used to get that all the time like that just hey man just jamming and he was like wow what do you do do you say I was like yeah can you sing something for me I was like oh here we go [Laughter] and I'm like who are you yeah we have this record Property so for me when anybody talked about gospel music I'd be like I came from the DNA of Andre Crouch so yeah yeah who God's Property even okay we like Kirk Franklin all right all right ain't the Winans or like you know commission like I get it cool so we left that day we're going to another studio in San Diego and they were like we exchanged numbers and kept calling because they were just working they were getting ready to work on this movie called Prince of Egypt for DreamWorks and they were like you don't know this but we were praying for a Latin artist we watched this movie Selena and just we wanted to find that Latin artist and we walked outside and he were right there I was like yeah cute story man I've been to church too I've heard the story yeah where's the title company I was like you know I wasn't feeling it because at that time I was really like I'm gonna just move steady and and produce that's what the foundation I'm learning marketing I'm learning you know radio game I'm with Ricky Lee who started the mix show world I got information out I'm doing things I know how to get some money out of these broadcasting companies that I'm with BMI I'm struggling you know can you help me Norman taught me all the all the ropes so they they were adamant and just can't press and impressive and then you know I do this demo a song called father that Brian McKnight did for Prince of Egypt and you know I didn't end up on it so I was just like whatever you know so we started clicking and and this guy Chris Schwartz who owned roughhouse records started a new label rough Nation so roughhouse was you know the Fugees Cypress Hill crisscross uh Outsiders Outsiders like that he was you know it was what it was at that time and they were huge so he had this deal with Warner Brothers and so it was shivani's one of his closest friends because it was based in Philly so he said look man we got an opportunity like to maybe you know if you want to do an album in man I I I did everything that I could to to just not do it to not do we'll give you 25 uh I need I need 50. 50 okay we'll give you 10 points I need 20. what and it just became after a while like deals done yeah and so he's coming back yeah I literally getting off the road while he's getting really started yeah so I was like what's up man I see things different and what I did at that time was I had this marketing plan that I came up with and I tackle radio a certain way and I tackle how technology would would be a bridge to fulfill the void and it's going to be through music it's going to be this way and I just had this this template and I just stuck to that because I started figuring out what the record companies weren't getting right with me and I said one point in time when it when I can arrive I might take all of this it's going to mean something but it ain't gonna mean nothing with these guys and eventually when he got back I said Warner Brothers wants me they're looking for me and the deal actually was going to just be out of the it was out and I called him I said look I'll do it I'll do the deal so okay I'm back in the artist thing again which is like you know it's heartbreaking as an artist and this is deal number what this is deal like number five yeah you know it's like to muster the the energy and the love and get that Spirit back it's it takes a lot because you're rebuilding all over again and I wasn't happy going into the deal I still have my reservations but I'm like I I I have to do this and then is came back like I was a great digger I was a guy getting you know going to beat non-stop Street Sounds crate digging I I was at on the turntable is came back from the tour like how'd you come back DJ mugs and and Premiere Pete Rock all in one you're making songs yeah yeah not just beats so I was like okay by that time I started picking a bass I was learning other instruments so like we really had some gears yeah yeah so we started working with Buster Shivani on on my solo project and man things were just aligning like I found myself in in Philly and I was meeting James poison for the first time and then they they took me to a touch of jazz and you know Philly's very like yo you don't come into Philly and and you Mexican here's the crazy thing we were so we were we were cooking at a such a high level and I remember we had finished the album and we went out to touch a jazz in Philly we up in there dill is there so everybody's kind of gunshot with playing their music because Dylan's in the building right Dill is in his fur coat playing Just he didn't even referral until he's in there he's in there slapping slapping fools push and play on everybody and we were so confident in what we had created we're like cool hey man play running play play running you know and we play our records and man everybody's like where the who who the hell and see the two Mexicans yeah they didn't know Jazzy Jeff knew me from back in the days from RC Ann Zama yeah because I was excited RCA yeah that's where you know yeah well and and Jazzy so Jeff probably in the back like yeah yeah yeah they don't know they don't know yeah that's like you know at that time we we developed a great relationship with Sway and you know he was on the cuspect at MTV we did a sample we actually bombing tech Bobby sampler that we did had sway introducing Bob so I mean it was it had all the right components I was like oh maybe this is this is the time right all the Ducks were in a row like I had this record I played talk box so you know Roger of course you play time yeah yeah that was like that was family they're from Dayton Ohio so I was close with them you know growing up and and Charlie uh Wilson so I was in all of that world at a young age so I was like okay if I'm gonna do this record because they were like how do we make a record for latins and it's like no you don't do a record in Spanish you hit with some zap that's how you that because you would have thought Roger was Mexican we had Eric Sermon on it I mean it was so all these things demet Guidry was in in Pocket at that time and it was like damn it couldn't it couldn't go wrong you know we had you know the president of the label on board you know everything was the way we always wanted to be from the top down everybody's gung-ho about the record let's go well guys oh that guy's transitioning out new guys coming in beginning amen so the president transitioned out president left new cat came in Tom Wallace Tom Wally came in from school and it was this thing where the the record was was such a hot like commodity at the label that anybody that came in who was foreign to it and didn't feel like it was a part of theirs they didn't you know it's like oh yeah that's not really our thing you know this new regime it's a new coach yeah and no matter I mean the Stars had been a line right so it's a layup for the next guy but we know how the game is you know I can't take credit for it if it's successful then you know there's going to be things that have to happen behind closed doors business Affairs money's got to go here it was going to be messy so somebody has to get somebody has to get override and then points that just basically go somewhere else yeah I know like it's you know everybody here's someone else's bonus but here's the thing being that who we are being just chameleons in the game while that's going on I'm still doing my gigs with Macy and we do this thing she's up they're honoring Janet so Macy gets a slot to perform like yo Bob they want you on Oregon come play with us so we do this gig Jimmy and Terry are there and it's a way for us to reconnect with Jimmy and Terry wow so Bob gives Jam a CD of all our heat right and it's been how many years it's been it's been I mean we talked about being out there with them or like that kind of thing when you see each other yeah yeah I mean it was like it was a long time so um I give Jam the CD the CD just doesn't work I never hear from them so my Spidey senses had told me my deals get ready to come to an end and I wrote Terry a letter and Jimmy and I said look I gave Jamie a record that we that I just finished as my solo project if you're trying to cross a bridge we are too it's now me it is and if you have anything available for us to work on we love to come and be a part with you guys of the family again but different yeah and then then the phone rings and it's we heard some drive off the road music yeah right yeah I mean Terry called me like instantly man it was like it was we got on a three-way bag I can't believe I I can't believe what I'm hearing yeah and that was okay wheels up again New Journey you know and so we so Terry's like man you guys got to come we got a couple artists in-house we got this group uh male group more since slick we got female artists so we get out to Minnesota back again and it feels familiar feels like family Terry's traveling he's no longer in Minneapolis he's in Atlanta he's doing like working on Fighting Temptations at the time and and Terry's like he's you know he's got Terry's got incredible Vision so he's feeling something different and it's not in Minnesota Jam's in Minnesota and they're a group more saying slick love what we what we were doing and we flew out there we knocked Two Joints out and the difference this time is you know being with Jimmy Jam Jimmy ran the Asylum like that was yeah like no one touched Janet no he Jimmy was like that was it and we just real quick we always talk about there's a difference between Terry Lewis's Embrace and Jimmy Jams Embrace okay you know just different Dynamics you know and you know back in that that time I mean Jam was one of those cats where you didn't go in his room he didn't play no music for you I mean you only really got called if Jam actually personally came out and said come in the room you know you know Terry was in the trenches you know he's yeah he's moving he's out here just you know shaking and baking rank records like it's nothing you know but but Terry was more open you know but but still in a like you know not on some bull but you know just real straightforward you know but different so here we are now we're back in mini book now we're back in mini with Jam we're Jam yeah so it's a whole different thing for us right so it's like okay but we get in there and Jam's like hey I want you guys to work on Janet with me and we're like let's go cold tap on the shoulder yeah cold tap on the shoulder right yeah I want you all to work and so yeah we start cooking you know I think we we send we sent the joint to T and at that I think it was a record he called Gypsy and we just started cooking we're like okay what's the concept that and then I remember Jam bringing out he brought out Jordan Videl so it was like okay we're gonna create this competitive you know experience here at fight at flight time and see who Rises to the top so funny stories man like here we are we're linking back up with Jordanelle remembered us from Dallas so here we go survival of the fittest right so we're like oh man that shit's trash we got that so we're cooking cooking and we just we hit it off with them as brothers man like Bob starts licking them on dice the hood with the real ones don't play with me at the old flight time they had a pool table in the game room right so bite them they're like Bob's taking all their per diem we joke about it still to this day and uh they borrow money from you and like bambob's taking all their bread and Trey's like yo yo is Mike can you loan me all right here you go man so I don't love it they're playing and through that man we became really close man yeah and you know it's like okay well shoot we're here together man let's try to cook the best we can yeah you know it's a great opportunity for all of us and be like imagine how great just being there right Janet and all that we're in a room my lawyer calls me my manager calls me at the time and he goes hey um well I got good news I was like what is it it goes well the label's dropping you and uh they're giving you they're gonna give you a record you could do whatever you want with the record so man I know you're up there with Jimmy and Terry man I got off the phone and I was like I looked at ears and I was like he knew I had that look and I can tell you and I was older at this time now and I can tell you better than he can tell about himself when I saw my brother walk out of the bathroom his Spirit was done he was broke yeah I was like God why do you give this to me there was no I can't do this no more and mind you I'm walking out getting ready to do I'm Legit [ __ ] didn't matter yeah you'd rather you rather be like oh yeah I'm stuck in some deal yeah yeah instead of being like Oh yeah and I have it and I can do it I can't do it yeah yeah and I was like I cry I was like Lord man you give me this it's just to stop like broken I was done so and I you know and it's just to give you an idea I mean I've I've we've been through our moments of of whether it was through pops or whatever but when I saw my brother's face and I saw just his eyes literally swollen from crying in the bathroom because I knew what's crazy is I knew what was going on in that bathroom with my brother I knew I knew exactly what it was and so when he came out he just had no more to give and I looked at my brother and said you know what bro now it's time for you to hop on my back I got you I got you and he get he gave me this one line like hey we just gotta go we just gotta go so he walked to the other room and I did this record spending time with you for Janet like maybe in like 30 minutes and that would ultimately end up on Demeter Joe and that record just always had that thing because it took me you know music always takes you to a point in time every place that you can always remember right so it started there then I found myself like okay let me embrace this I got is I don't have to carry it like that anymore I can I can continue to think and strategize and then be creative and being with the guys I felt safe yeah and what I what I loved about being there with them at that time was I I found out later that Jimmy sat the production staff who were on flight time he sat them down and made them listen to my my record top to bottom and at the end he said guess who that is and they were like big Jim was trying to figure it out Prof T who was from Loki was one of their staff writers as well and another guy Alex Richberg and they're like we don't know who this is and Jimmy stood up and he said it's Bobby Bobby Ross Avila Aaron just walked out so that let me know like wow it made an impact on Jam like that and we developed such a great relationship and close relationship where we were fishing with Steve Hodge in Wisconsin like it became like it really became famous should we be out here so jam was like you guys we should move out here so he went and got his real estate guy you know we were looking at places Terry's traveling and mind you I get this call like at 10 o'clock in the morning and Terry's like it's Terry he goes hey what's up what's up Bob B rasti aspumati what's going on I said I have things great out here T he's like he's like you got my partners you got my partners here and you know that's hard to get yeah he said hmm how you liking it said I feel safety and I love it you know and we're talking about moving out here wait wait don't do that yet I have some ideas yeah let me get back into town so make a long story short he gets back in town and you know but well we can't skip a step because we're making a little bit of money no wait no I was getting ready so it's Morrison slick check we get yeah now is 15 000 for just half of the song yeah so I'm like and it's Christmas time right so we're like it's always Christmas time we're sitting at the table like doing fiddles yeah and so you know we're getting a little bread and you know Christmas has always been a favorite time everybody especially because it'd be like Santa came and had an orgasm at the crib every Christmas time and that really came from my mom because that's something my mom used to do with us we were kids and so you know we got a little bread now we're like okay man let's go get a cabin in Big Bear Let's have the family with us or whatever you know so you know and we still now do that to this day we get a cabin every year from Christmas but it all spawned from being back at a point in our lives we're like okay we can finally eat a little yeah you know and so let's get the family together so Terry calls us we're chilling in Big Bear and uh calls us up man we're just chopping up and he's like you know uh I'm gonna shut flight time down out here what do you guys think and we're like first thing we thought was well you know he's like I want to bring it to the West Coast and we're like well how are you gonna get jammed to sell his castle is he coming we'll work on that we'll work on that and uh we're like all right cool you know for us we're like you know because mind you we were getting ready to to adjust our mindset to now living back in Minnesota so now he's bringing it to calendar like cool we'll be around our fam all right cool that's easier so Terry was like you know anybody that builds Studios and we were like ah we do um a good person we met along the way was Jack who built iced tea Studio at the top of the mountain so we were like we actually do we gotta cat that can can put some dope together so say okay well when I get out there I want to come meet with him all right so we start in the meantime we started doing a lot of work now at Marvin's Room on Sunset so that was like our intermediate spot until we figure out the studio thing and then we went from Marvin's Room to the Village recorder in Santa Monica Santa Monica yeah so you know getting all the pieces together and while that's going on you know Terry's out here you know meeting with you know uh contractors and you know looking at places where we can build a studio and so finds a location and mind you this is all happening well now now the gas is on the fire now we're at at the Village we're doing we're finishing Janet we're getting finished we're trying to finish up we try to finish her we start with Maya we did uh the mood ring I think we did two joints on the moon we did Fighting Temptations and you know I'm gonna say through that through this process what was great for me was Terry trusted me at a high level to make like to be an advisor to ask me questions and really trusted where I was at and to me that gave me a whole nother kind of confidence yeah because that for Terry it's like you could either his principles are you could either work on inspiration which is always the best place to work on uh or work with but then you have you have to be able to work on demand yeah so Terry's testing the water He's got everybody coming through Yolanda Adams and in the midst of working with Janet you know Jam would be flying in and out and we'd be cooking non-stop we okay this this person's coming in I yeah it is we're like I'll tell you I'm cooking I had a room at the Village they called it the Nino Brown room because I had all these black exploitation posters in my room and I have vinyl and drummer sheets and it's like like how Bob talks about his time as a kid it was now my time and I'm in this spaceship I'm flying to Mars I'm I'm on Saturn I'm just truth hurts that's what it's made for the meeting but you can't even you can't even spell that out yet so before he even got to that while we were working on my record there was this track that he he had truth and I was like weird thing like I don't even like but he's great at what he does that kind of feels like Usher so in the midst of us working with uh Janet at the village Terry said Usher's coming down and what you guys got something I was like I looked at Izzy I was like we we had did that he did the track and we have put the CD together with that with that church truth it was like two two or three years before that even like it might have been four because yeah and what's crazy is we had a it's how we were always sitting outside the box we had a warehouse in Rancho where we were doing screen printing we were doing shirts and everything and we had Studios is and that's the way we thought it was like okay we got to have you know okay shirts we do that we have a green print we were Jamaican man we're Mexican and Jamaican we got Coke but that was mentality back then it was like yeah we just let's put these pieces together and I had a little room in the warehouse and I remember linking back up with some friends from high school they had a rap group I was like oh let me do a joint so that joint was actually the track that became true first and um Bob had called it back then he was like may not sound like a that sounds like a Usher record or something that you did for a rap group for a rap group so fast forward to four years when we started you know when we met him at the Village when we're getting ready to work on confessions and Bob was like yo here's that one get him that one joint so we gave him a CD and that's when it just first thing he said two thirds yeah it was like there it is there it is and I remember we were we were rattling that building so tough every artist that came through was like yo can you give me can I get a truth hurts yeah Janet was like oh she needs a truth hers it's like no so tell me this because you said um there were people who were like staff writers that you know yeah can would you guys mind giving us the business of how that worked as far as like you know because you said now y'all were seeing production fees yeah you know because there are if you know there have been other teams that people don't really get those type of things or don't really get those you know that notoriety from um from doing those things especially if you're signed too yeah especially if you're assigned you know you're assigned to producers and at that level yeah yeah you know what I'm saying because you don't how do you ask a Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis yeah yeah because you know my fears here's the thing I think too like one thing I will say with Jimmy and Terry is they really loved us man they really looked at us not as just a tool not as just something that could you know bring them a hit but Terry really fell in love with us as kids man you know and Bobby lived with him you know and when it got to that time I mean it was very simple it was different because everybody that was on staff got a salary okay me and Bob it was different it was like no it's like whatever we went out and hunt and shot and brought to the table that's when we eat and so you know but Terry Terry understood our place and and he always wanted to make sure that no no whatever you guys do make sure it's branded as the Avila brothers too so we never had problems with credits publishing you know Terry but that's what I'm saying like you know that's not normal it's not it's not normal you know we all in this music business and that's why we like to give the information yeah and we like for people to understand like it don't always work that way it never works it don't you know and you know Terry had offered me a publishing deal and it just wasn't for me he was like don't worry about it okay we'll we'll still work didn't hold that against you nope wow and and and let me do my thing yeah Legend on the whole night a whole little bro yeah I mean Terry's rule of thumb was I'll never ask you to do something I wouldn't do that's his real that's his rule of thumb and you know we we configured and constructed our business arrangement with what made sense for the time you know it's like we we you know if we created something we got our publishing and you know we got paid we got our we got our 15. we didn't get a trophy for being on the team we got paid when we brought something to the table you know so I will say this you know there were and I'm not gonna say no names they were staff writers at flight time we came back in the fold we cleaned house Tara's like okay yeah we can clean the bench now we okay we got we got some Jedis here now and and you know it was I mean it was great man it was like reconnecting with our heroes you know what I'm saying and at the highest level yeah and you know and I think for us too it really stood out when we finally got to get time with Jam you know because it was just it's different with Jam you know it's you got to have a different different pedigree for Jam you know Jam is like on the spot yeah we'll kill you on the spot yeah you know and so for him for us to Circle back and jam coming to us and say man I'd like for you guys to do the channel record with me yo Jam never made that available to anybody you know so it gave us that confidence that we also needed needed yeah that's what I'm saying like with Terry was like Terry on the business side and then Jimmy on a creative and then Terry with the creative too and then we're moving the studio we're gonna go to the Midwest eventually Jan was like all right I'm coming and he sold the crib and he sold his castle and Minnesota yeah I heard oh yeah it looked like the White House yeah straight up yeah he had a spread and that was inspiration for everybody yeah exactly and it's like at least are you making house music music that buys the house music and they have this thing where they scratch your chin like Leon Silvers it's good to be different but not different yuck yuck oh that is great so Truth Hurts Truth Hurts first record but there are multiples yeah and here's what's crazy it was legendary out legendary out but what's crazy is we were only supposed to do one and so at that time he only got the good yeah at that time like he had a couple records like he played us burn so we got this out here where he was sonically he had caught up um and maybe one or two yeah confessions was kind of broken a little bit we had a couple from Adele and so we go in there we coming with you first and I'll never forget when la carte was like okay Truth Hurts brought a different tone into the record we need to re-rethink some things as far as where we're going at on on the direction side I'm sending them back and he was like I'm sending them back so T was like hey y'all got more so it was like oh man here here he goes that's what it's made for oh simple things yeah hold the phone so no no no no you stop you stop it whenever I could come up [ __ ] yeah that's what it's made for that's exactly that term right there tells you exactly what it is oh y'all six Savages yeah I went somewhere else with that yeah I mean and here's the thing like we're working on Janice so I'm stuck on Janet right I don't want to do Usher I was like not inspired at all I was like I'm in general yeah yeah and Terry's like pop it did for me it didn't matter I was cooking for both that's and that's really how that's what it's made for because I was cooking that's what it's made for for Janet and all my my inspiration off that was um ignition I was just like you know what let me try to just get some yeah I'll never forget man I came out of my Nino Brown room and I went up upstairs which was the third floor and I push play it was Bob and Terry in the room and man it was like Terry's Bob Melody ush comes in and well actually you know it started with Jam yeah started with Jam I went and played it in in a room Jam was in and so he gets on the keys he's starting to fill it out Terry and ush walk in and Jim was like oh no this this one's awful this one's for Janet Jerry was like [ __ ] and uh we waited I went to the kitchen with Terry because it was the air got a little thick right so in the kitchen me tear sat down he was like I was gonna go in that room yeah does Janet know that record was supposed to be heard no no oh it got it she watches yeah that's what it's made for yeah he got hijacked and then you know La had told Mark Pitts it was like the a r at the time he said you got to get Jimmy and tear in the room so Mark came to me he's like man we got to get both the guys because that's how we're gonna get like can you stand to rain and I said never happening yeah they're busy they're doing two different things so I said what does la want he goes mail that classic I said cool jam and say hey Jam you know you played this little chord progression can I use that for Usher yeah so I said could you come up oh all I got is 10 minutes so I was like all right cool so it's put a group together actually I said we're gonna get a Groove Together for this one joint Jam gave me just piano with a click track then is had the drums I put that in there and I said man what if we take us to like the Bee Gees or something so simple things was birth did that one right after that we did bagger and I hated bad girl hated it so I'm on the NPC as he's downstairs and you know it's we got to get we got to get records done so I'm knocking that out putting a bridge in I hated bad girl I just wanna yeah yeah break the skin I hate it over your back and then you know what I try to do is I try to get these these nuances so like dude I was thinking of take a ride in the sky yeah all right I'm feeding myself the bridge comes up like oh let's do some let's do some eisleys and so that's how you got the bridge and that to me I had to like psych myself out he was like my hats on this huh yeah he goes in there and then is came in there did that and all that scratches so it's like cool then he went right downstairs who wrote that uh it was cherry but yeah he had the concept and yeah buy her own bottles just so you understand the climate of creativity then we did it was like we were we were just making so much music we weren't stuck it was just like if it felt good and it felt right man play it cool you got that and that's how quick we're moving yeah we did was on the album we did so the people can in turn just put a dot into YouTube feed [Laughter] seduction yeah you're gonna make me do it yeah so yeah you're gonna make me do it to you that's what he said listen listen Usher didn't have a sexy moment no but see until yeah until yeah yeah seduction we talked about that on the Rico Love episode absolutely yeah Rico wrote the rap yeah and you know I I I it's Terry lives by the the principle of concept so as they're bringing his confessions concept to us Terry's like okay you confess it cool that's that's cool boy but let's talk about all the things in between why are you confesses let's talk about the fun you were having yeah so tea was like huh yeah yeah yeah and cry yeah and then it reverses and goes all the way back to why you screaming again it's that it's that much how you write the music that's how you feel so because I I understood Terry's brain we had a track and a laptop and I said [Music] yeah seduction and we just we used to label songs like feels good or whatever we played that that's awesome that's off is yeah that's all it is and and you know rest in peace of Jim but he he played uh play keys on that or yeah he played keys and I heard I was like let me do some Jimmy Jam so I did like the flute yes and I had this one keyword that Terry was like diving in his keyboard because it's gonna be great so he was crazy such a such a great time of just making music yeah y'all were making history bro and you know what man we didn't that's the beauty and and I think this is like the most important part of all of this because it I'll never forget you know yeah it came out and then we were rushing to get the they wanted everything done it was going to come out in March so Urban Network these you know the music conference it happened I think a week after confessions and and Demeter Joe came out and Damita Joe was number we had the number one record and a number two record in the world we didn't we're Jimmy and Terry we were all just on the ground we we just worked every day we drive from Rancho Cucamonga at 12 o'clock and stayed in the studio till four in the morning go back home do the same thing absolutely so we didn't know what was happening I mean it's something about red Joe huh yeah you know you're out of it yeah you're out of it you know he was in Rancho yeah I used to hear you like I was down bad we were down at the Best Buy I was right across from the best spot yeah the apartment was like 12.00 yeah brand new apartment that's right Church Street Church Street that's where we were at I was right there that's crazy yeah we were all there so check this out we we had our spot Big Jim had a spot right by us in Rancho too yeah because it was like we knew what they were were accustomed to living you know in terms of just being in Minneapolis so we're like this is this is the place that DJ Rogers was Big Jim's manager so yeah DJ Rogers was was Big Jim's manager DJ Rogers yeah DJ Rogers yeah wow Love Brought me Back DJ yeah yeah shame there you go shame DJ yeah okay that one talk about it yeah so legendary right here you know we go to the urban Network and you know I see right uh Raphael Saadiq and Ray's like hey man I looked I said what's up bro he's like man my favorite Record Man Truth Hurts and the air was different and the whole the whole place and it was like dude the record I didn't feel it I just didn't I didn't feel it right I didn't like know I got something cracking yeah we just feel like we got a hot record and officer and yeah what I loved about going to the urban Network um Miller London ran it at the time in you know I would go there you know year after year and I remember he put my they would have this calendar and he had all the stars birthday parties or birthdays and and every month and I remember mine was in there and I just when you don't have anything and he looked like wow they know my birthday like Miller London put it down I was like that meant everything to me so I purposely would go there just to like wow I just I need this all right I need that in my life so when it happened man he came up to me and my brother and he was like son I'm so happy for you skip Miller said what'd I tell you when you were 12 man you can't hold Talent back you can't hold it down he's like so proud of you and that for me I was like yo we got something and more importantly I knew how powerful and great I was or wasn't because God made that work for me and showed me like you thought you had it here you thought now look at the the work you didn't really Inspire were inspired about and into it's two million three million four million five minutes and it was but what's crazy is we really didn't we were just so in the zone I think at seven million is when our publicist tugged on us it was like you know what's that seven million records so right now we're like we're like what and so us wow reached out to is and he was like look I'm touring we're gonna be at the Staples um which is now the crypto crypto.com spot and so he was like I want you guys to come down and I was like um we only go and see Prince I went to go see princess yeah so did I I left Glitz to find his work on the I'm going bye T I'm gonna see Prince I understand yeah so I didn't want to go to Usher's thing and finally at the last minute we gotta go so we get in get to our seats and uh the show starts and he starts playing the records and I'm like going be sorry I'm seeing Chinese Mexican in real time that's a free culture and I'm like the lady next to me and she's like y'all know about it and I was like wow we've touched some people maybe I do like this song Maybe she's a great girl yeah but you know like Dennis started hitting me like okay this is what it is and um oh I'll be able to answer that one question now oh when it comes when y'all ask now I got I now I got the answer for that question but I started realizing like okay this is this is it now yeah you're prepared we're not waiting for the opportunity you're prepared and that's something jam always just used to talk about as well so that's like okay Earth Wind and Fire is coming and Maurice is on his way and I was like demo is they're coming never forget I got a Stratocaster from eBay it was like 1976. we knocked out a record for Earth Wind and Fire knowing that they were coming but yeah I think we did that in what 30 30 minutes at like 3 A.M like knocked it out MET Maurice man we became the best of friends um you know the OJ's were coming in it was like oh we got it then Yolanda Adams has come in got it then Gwen Stefani's coming in it's like oh got it it just was like yeah and we were the spirit was on the spirit was going man and at that time you remember my marketing plan I had talked about right well I went back to my marketing plan and Tech and music when it happens for you it's gonna work and a friend of ours in the IE who we met through my father and James Felix the guy from the um Andre Crouch and the disciples was George Benson's percussionist and he said I have my daughter you know love for you guys work with her and I want to introduce you to Monster Cable no Lee no absolutely so my sister used to work for Noli really wow yeah my sister used to work for Noli so I mean San Francisco so oh that's right yeah yeah it literally worth it yeah so she was a monster she was a Monster yeah That's the whole there is that like yeah you drink the monster Kool-Aid you become a Monster yeah but uh we entered we got introduced to each other that came out in the studio and that started a whole nother vertical for us as entrepreneurs and as businessmen yeah in music they wanted to get in the music game and you know we wanted to learn their space so a lot you know guy who loves information we went on this journey together and we learned branding in retail and we became the ambassadors for a lot of their products and sales meetings so we were with learning sales staff and we we were under the hood kind of guy so we're like man music can live in this department we're going to Best Buy at the time Circuit City was here so like TV AV receivers music man and right out there if the music game gets into this it could be really big yeah and right at the start of that while we were just in this zone of Music we worked on we started working on our solo album which is dollar Brothers the most alsational and we put out a record I want you and you know for us that was like I don't know how we found time to work on that record and complete it because you know we just time was time was limited then but we would stay late hours we'd finish and then we're like all right let's plug away let's try to let's try to you know get this record going and you know it was really like for us it was going to be like kind of a token of appreciation for the [ __ ] we love and life like to be as musicians yeah we put this body record label work together and and you know we put out once you and then I want you to start doing its thing and it's like people are like well can you out come out and gig you know we're like man we're Studio rats like we can't tour away we'll give it across the street yeah or if it's like um but you know and I look back at I want you and it's like you see what it what it means to like the skating Road and people just one of those Classics and all our whole thing was like the experience like so you know the artwork we did vinyl we just you know we dressed it up a certain way so it felt like a a collector's like you know item or whatever and so you know that that project just kind of took on the life of its own man yeah you know people ask us all the time about you know that record was that put out with monster music at the time or no it was right before it was right before we did a we did a um a distribution deal with universal and you know it was basically a labor of love and it gave us an opportunity to make a record yeah how we because they were trying to get into the music space and that was the reason why we partnered up and we we talked about doing something but it was like you know we talk about a woman will build an Empire take the Empire down we told them get in the music business and your Empire will surely yeah go away there's a different way to go about that and here's what's crazy it was like it was Full Circle because I'm thinking man I know what this is because I was 16 17 selling their Cable in Best Buy yeah now here's the cables yeah now here we are in a room with no lead and we're getting ready to learn this industry completely outside of music now now we're getting to learn a space that we know nothing about right right retail how to product project this is like right after confessions about 2005. yeah you know and so it became this trade-off where Noah would visit the studio every week and he'd come sit with us and we teach him music industry and he teach us retail yeah he was on his secretary what's crazy was you know we laughed because he showed up to the studio in this old raggedy limo and mine you at that time no was selling a 200 cable that only cost them 500 bucks to make for five bucks yeah so yeah that margin was crazy he was he was killing the game and so what was unique yeah what was unique about it though is when he come into the studio we share ideas and he'd take an idea and he go create it at a shop and bring it back the next week yeah and show it to us so he was he had a 24-hour thing going yeah his his factories they just did not stop did not stop yeah they were asked Bob yeah my brother oh your brother so at one point with my sisters my sister's working there for him in the offices my brother just needs a gig at one point like some years just years ago and and she got him like overnight oh wow in the factory yeah you know what's crazy too that as you say that I still don't sleep till this day because I used to I got trained by you know going home at four in the morning and being available for a Hong Kong conversation conference call yeah so I I would never sleep so still to this day you know I'm answering emails at three four in the morning and they always call me like Bobby the guy that doesn't doesn't sleep and I learned it from them everybody no no lead was different yeah yeah what was the fly-in and fly out was different yeah he never he never he never slept yeah he slept in a plane or in a car that was it it was crazy at that time you know he had over a thousand skus and he was he was the one guy in retail he was in gaming he was appliances he was in home AV he was in media what's the thing they do in Vegas every year is it yeah he was the king he was the king yeah so you know that was you know again new relationship New Journey you know he's teaching us retail he's teaching us tooling product development packaging all these things that we love because mine you remember where they're still the same guys that had the t-shirt business yeah you know so just logo colors yeah put it all together like you said CES they were like you guys want to go to Cs and it's like so we went over there and it was like oh this is basically the name of your guys different world and as we were getting this information I went back to my marketing plan and I was like see this is where the labels missed it okay so rule of thumb with with Nolan creating product know your customer no know what you're building for who you're building it for tables got it wrong with me they're trying to they don't they can't figure it out they're trying to find their way not knowing you just gotta let it be and it's not for one demographic it's not just for one culture Bobby actually represents a whole lot and he just got to be what he is and trying to stick me in a box once you get in the Box you can never get out and that's what they couldn't figure out and we learned that being with Noel and monster understanding the different verticals so then it was like okay now I'm getting back into my artist mode known how they met like what what was wrong by watching no take this cable that only costed them five dollars to sell it for 200 and when you put it behind your TV you never see it again how do you do that's a Jedi mind trick that is that you've never seen I've never seen it again never see it again it was like even strong it would cut you yeah trying to open them just be like hey this must be expensive and the tips were gold so here we go you felt like you were buying it no no no the way I'm gonna I'm gonna blame it on you because you worked at Best Buy the way you guys would sell it was oh the go tips of those conditions it conducts the the current just just look at the two different things you see the difference no well trust me it's over there you know me I'm the guy that's like wait so this twenty dollar one don't work this ain't you sure and I'm the guy that's like yeah I see it but you've never seen I believed everything I mean like it cancels all interference guys yeah gold tips so as y'all working there with him are you did you start developing things with him so check this out he would we would share ideas okay and the first idea remember he had talked to us about being able to transmit like if we're working on in the studio and we want to hear something in the car being able to transmit something to your FM stereo so he came back and he brought this product back called the icruise it was a cassette that went into your tape deck and through transmitting you could you could hear what you're doing I remember that right yeah so we started this relationship of just sharing the music stuff him sharing retail and product and all that stuff and then one day he comes to the studio and he says hey what do you guys think about headphones like and I was like you know headphones nobody's really watching I mean you see bows but it's dudes that are 50 plus rocking away yeah nobody was really wearing them and Bob was like yeah but you know if we connected with music and we use music as a vehicle to get it to an audience and and Noah's like yeah lifestyle lifestyle and we were in Brisbane every other week and Terry would be like hey don't don't forget don't forget music is what you do music music starts the conversation it's like yeah but I I smell what I what I sensed in 99 it's here right by that airport yeah right over the airport yeah and you know man it was like like I said we we were ins engulfed in in retail with them and just so like we're learning something new it's like it became music that's easy we we got this this right here this is something they would drag us to Circuit City meetings they would have me and Bob you'd just be in the room where they're selling through product to the Reps and we were just sponging like okay this is what it is this is what it is yeah and you know those relationships were Priceless so we were like okay no this is how we get in the music game here we do it this way and you know Beats by Dre was birth and that was a concept that was given to a few and they turned it down and It ultimately went to Dre and we are well let's let's unfold that we actually took one of the first folds that's unfolded beats yeah when the first working prototype came yeah it was in a briefcase attached to a chain attached to a security man's arm right because Noah was always about presentation and I remember when we had a working prototype first person closest to reach that we're working with at that time was ush and so like us man you gotta come check out this headphone and it could be something you know it could be something we maybe build around you whatever and he passed on it then we started chasing Ludacris around town passed on it and if you think about that time it just wasn't a thing yeah Dr Magic Johnson yeah because everybody looked at it for what it was they looked at it as a headphone and it's like people are not rubbing headphones and it's like no you got to look at it as a vehicle a vehicle to take your core product or what you do and marry it to new customers right give them a new experience but at that time artists we nobody thought Beyond you know you got an album you got to launch a single was the radio plan how are we gonna work the furthest were t-shirts that's the first yeah yeah losing gave me that instinct so I'm like no we're gonna get this and we were kind of we were kind of running out of steam like we were telling no like man uh we've tried like we Luda I mean nobody Gwen Stefani comes and we're working and you know we talk to her about this headphone and she's like you know I'm a girl I really don't you know I don't wear the headphones or whatever but I don't know maybe Jimmy hmm Jimmy you could say the full name I mean yeah and it was crazy because yeah we ended up working with with her and you know I had a talk with Terry and it's like be stealth and I said cool so it's like let's don't put our name anywhere it's not let them know just stay behind the scenes with Noel and Kevin which is a son who really drove a lot of the initiatives and so I remember being in the studio just like Jimmy had no idea we were me and his were part of none of that and the only ones that knew knew the company and Jimmy and Terry so we found ourselves making calls for monster to get them engaged just with the musical Community because we felt you know they needed a seed and how do you see us musicians and producers give them free Goods what's your address all right cool we got uh we got 10 headphones coming yeah just yeah you know and you know it's it's crazy because everybody thinks beats hit and when it first came out and it didn't it didn't it failed it failed for a good year they were breaking they were breaking we knew we knew everything and they were really weren't connecting from a marketing they gave me multiple yeah yeah when you got one you knew you were gonna get ten you know what I'm saying because it would break breaking yeah they would break at first yeah they had to figure all that [ __ ] out they had to figure it out and then you know retail is like going monster you're hot here you're not a headphone company but they had their backs had been built on cable at a high level for so long they were they were making money they couldn't tell them no so Noel said well I'll leverage this one skew on the back of the cable industry that I had the space that I have so if we fail here you can make it up over here yeah and that's how we got retail to buy into the headphone was he leveraged his core skus for them to give them a chance on this headphone and mind you this is the first time he's making a headphone you know but that just shows you the power he had at retail you know to get them to accept this new product you know so you know what I'm about to ask though how was the business set up yeah terrible terrible terrible but but here and here's what I'll say for us when I look back at it you know the trade-off was it was like our high level College attendance Princeton Harvard yeah of learning retail because mind you like I said this is a space we knew nothing and nothing about but the trade-off of this man pouring into us allowed us to create so many successful products after beats you know I'll never forget I mean you know when we go to the Cs after we you know after the Beats came up you know there was everybody was a headphone coming all of a sudden yeah and everybody wanted to meet with us and everybody was like cool we gotta we want to do a headphone let's let's yeah the real Executives and CEOs a lot of these companies knew like Bobby knew when you go back and look on it right and you say like you said you take it as you take it as education and that whole thing do you also look at it and say damn should I had a should I had stopped and got the business all the way in tax absolutely absolutely and you know wherever there's a fortune mate there's a crime that's been committed so we weren't there only I mean you know the bigger the fortune the bigger the crime but yeah exactly yeah and the thing I think we it was it was eye-opening because we went from being guests at CES looking at it for you know for for the first time and then we walk in a few years later and we're again here we go game changers but I think it changed the game when you look at it from a creative aspect you know the real the real asset is our creativity and our ideas right and when you're coming from a world of music and songwriting you understand that that's publishing right but when you jump into this other lane that's around Tech and product and it's new and you know points in the retail world are different from what happened you know yeah you don't know how you don't know how it's chopped up and so you know it's like you look at that and you say okay you're in the moment you're sharing ideas you're you're leveraging relationships we're bringing them much we're bringing them looted we're you know you're just going because you're excited and and you know you have something and how it unfolds you just hope that it unfolds correctly yeah and it doesn't yeah you know but the doors if you do it right the door is not open the mounted doors that open yeah that analysis allows me and Bob to have success outside of us having to write a hit record yeah see that's where when I look at it now that's where the wind was for us because the amount of information that Noel pumped into us allowed us to create relationships in real time at retail so all our folks then now run Best Buy they won massive companies he paid you a knowledge yeah he paid us in knowledge the social currency the social currency was crazy you know it became it got to the point where Best Buy only wanted to talk to us and we became The Interpreter yeah did they know you were a former employee employee yeah oh yeah yeah and that was what he said but that was the thing because yeah and that was the thing it was like you know and that made it even more powerful when we got in the rooms because you know being able to speak to that and Beyond being still being under able to understand the climate of the customer and then the product that needs to be put before them you know and and taking that information and then here we are now we're doing the Renaissance drum machine with a kai and they need to they need the same thing we went in there they thought they were hyped they presented us so yeah but how do we get there though basketball I wanted us to run their new division the new division so when you would go into Best Buy and you saw like a Guitar Center that was us and now we were in control of like what products go in so then when companies would come and do the picture man I'll never forget we went to uh Boston and they were like oh you're gonna love this it's what they use the kai drum machine right so they they did their little spill and I never forget telling it to the CEO and the whole staff and I think what do you think I said there's some [ __ ] yeah it's terrible and then our Best Buy guys are there and they're like yeah we're not buying that so we got asked to stay another day and to see I was like can you guys come to the house take you on the boat you guys like fishing yeah we need to talk and now we found ourselves like getting their products getting their product right and see that was the thing because we're connoisseurs of the NPC so we know it from top to bottom what it needs to be what it needs to feel like yeah does it feel like a toy does it feel like it takes yeah make the metal heavier it's too so we had to remind them of product that they make and what it stands for for creating because you guys actually use it well yeah they make it but you use it and and still to this day on the on the MP it says Pro okay so it has to feel Pro and so going from there getting that right you know getting that machine right then also courting all of our creatives and our friends saying hey we're gonna make sure you get one you know we'll send you one yo shoot us some notes what does it need does it need to be a little bit more this you know just at the end and start engaging we never we never got one huh did you get one I'm talking about whatever and I'll honestly sure we produced a couple records yeah yeah you did yeah my bad oh you know what I'm gonna blame her yeah she did it she didn't get you that but you know see in in that in the process though one thing that came out of that was being hurt being let down as an artist we were then able to repair a relationship with the guy who actually was responsible for building the NPC 3000 with Roger Lynn Bruce foret who did everything on the NPC for Dre I mean everybody on the face of the Earth yeah I had a bunch of stuff maybe we made the CEO go to his foreign helped build the schematics for the MPC 3000 it wasn't Roger Lynn I didn't know that's why he's so I didn't know why everybody went to Forex Bruce had the original patent on the pads that that was Bruce yeah and and what's crazy is and this is how God works man because you think you think you're doing something great but then God reminds you I was like yeah I got this title right so you know how great was it that in all the years that Bruce has pretty much been the face for Akai they've never thanked him they've never welcomed him what through Russ later on in life we may took his ass down yeah we're at we're we're at Akai helping them with machine and even me and Bob say you know what we're dope but we can't do this without Bruce there's no there's no way we could do this so man we get a Kai to fly Bruce out they make this huge welcome Bruce to Kai sign so we pull up and you just saw what it meant for Bruce in his eyes to finally be acknowledged not from the product guy not from the marketing team but from Jack O'Donnell to CEO himself and just say man shame on us but we want to welcome you here with open arms you know what I'm saying like when he when Bruce kissed me on the cheek it just was like love man yeah that's cool are you kidding me yeah man yeah it's never too late to make it right it is it takes more to be an [ __ ] than it is to be nice yeah and it doesn't cost you anything to give somebody credit and like to Bob's point when he said repair the relationship that's what we were able to do that's you know awesome so you know but again points back to the information that no blessed us with it how we're able to take that information and create other opportunities how's your relationship with a car now are we still chopping up I mean they still get it wrong from time to time but you know we we still chopping up okay I think I'm just trying to get to where Mark will be calling you soon I know you they got a new machine too right now I got one sitting over there I'll show you a good friend of ours Mark Frederick who is still there he's like Jack O'Donnell's right hand guys still a great friend of ourselves I mean anytime I've needed anything on tour it's there so so his family and he should know he just put his prayer request in here with his prayer requested okay we got it looking for a love offer yeah exactly yeah it's time for it listen I told I told y'all this was going to be unpacking of 30 plus years wow um the journeys okay okay [Laughter] oh yeah man let's do this because I know we could talk for all night yeah that's that's how because we do that I'm like I'm here with these incredible cats I'm like can I ask you I told taking a dress at the new edition coach I was like man bro you are so bad all right you were asking to take his test no he he did it already yeah yeah wait you know who's getting ready to take the shirt off was a security guard was going to take my shirt off and beat my ass I waved and it was like hey hey I'll come back [Applause] oh that's good no I appreciated that yeah a lot yeah man like serious Fan Man I mean and this guy's like the cloth yeah man that's that's what I care about the neutrons bro yeah yeah the neutron I see how you're trying to spin it I see what you trying to do okay he's good he said they had early media training yeah guys early on look over here give me no over here give me right now for you guys because um last time I saw you in action you were it was it was it was two band members it was it was my guy Spears are we rather we raised from you that was it and I'm looking they're like I'm like what is he doing he's doing everything you saw a season oh I mean this was a shoe yes Usher uh residency in Vegas uh where he only needed two musicians okay uh hold on I'm not sure what day you came you might have came when I got covered but there's three of us I didn't I didn't see you there yeah I probably got I got yeah yeah I only needed three three okay Usher Usher's music definitely requires a 19 piece band and I saw you picking up everything all the instruments and I was like yeah that [ __ ] was different going oh yeah we both called ourselves I'm like who else is here yeah you guys know how to get under the hood quick oh no I'm because I'm watching the you know I'm watching the intricacies of how it's all coming together I know Usher's gonna do Usher I'm not worried about him he's gonna do that's for them I need to see the pieces that I need to see yeah that feed me and that's that that's that engine I need to you know what I'm saying I need to see that 12. you know what I'm saying yeah and you were trouble cooking on such a level man such an impressive level I just I think like it was a a great opportunity and experience for me my brother and who became one of my most amazing friends Little John yeah I've been building it we're building a show yeah and and give you some perspective I'm sitting by a little John and little John is talking me through the show oh yeah come up in the movie that's right yeah he gonna die but he gonna run but he's just just just keep watching it though I'm like John see what we trying to do on this part is trying to make it like a club see watch How I go in the transition watch the transition he talked me through the whole show you're great I know you're great thanks you're great I did it I get it but yeah that's what it was going on I mean you know for me it's like I've always had this thing not to be arrogant but I I never I was never gonna die to play in Another Man song and and that be my career yeah and I had um talk to Chucky Booker and I was like Chucky what do you think I should do he was like man you should you should definitely do it I talked to Terry he's like man get your ass off the couch and go touching people and see you know you got to share your gift with people and more importantly it was like it gave me an opportunity to share the stage with his and it it was a great experience for me because it allowed me to just have fun and it just was like I mean how hard it could be I was having a good time yeah we had a great time and being in the studio and just going through the process it was like I watch is is really navigate he navigates that machine in terms of production um dealing with management being you know a psychiatrist yeah all of those things yeah yeah where I would be the guy to be like Kiss and you know for me it was like it's the easiest thing for me to do to play my own [ __ ] and then do it's like it's hard is it to play confessions how is it to play these records but what was great I was able to paint these records still keep these records intact and that was our goal right because who wants to hear or be in a seat and watch your artist do your favorite song and he's he turns a fast song into a slow song and it's your favorite record like our thing was how do we give the audience and the consumer is a great experience and I think collectively through Usher's input John had a great concept of what the show needed to be and for us to have our concept together and build that whole show was like amazing yeah we treated it like one long record you know that was the goal it's like once we got a set list together we began to create this journey of music you know and that was the thing it's like you know you've played these records a million times how do you reintroduce them without you know jeopardizing the way people want to hear the hits yeah and you know we one of the things we learned from Terry is never get in the way of the hit play The Hit Man and so you know that was a thing and you know we took this thing and we we cooked it we baked it we mastered it then we brought it to the venue we remixed to The Venue because we wanted this show to slap you in the face I mean we're coming out of the pandemic and this is Usher's first time being in Vegas having a residency and so I was like yo how do we take you know all the nuances of what we experience from live shows that we love whether it was new addition whether it was Prince whether it was Michael how do we give this experience off the right way and you know it was like meeting other mines I mean it was a rock that we constantly chiseled and made better I mean I remember getting to the venue and recording additional Parts okay we gotta we gotta beef this up here and that venue was soft you gotta remember it was built for Celine Dion so it had no ass in the building so it took you know the ears you said that Celine Dion and got no cheeks she ain't got no cheeks no she got she's got the pillow she got the pillow in the floor I don't have them do that we call that a Hogan bottle yeah I remember telling Caesar's like yo we got to pull that PA down because it can't handle what we're giving it you know that's how in depth we were going with making sure that sonically it was hitting you in the face yeah you know and what's my oh my God is uh Kyle what oh my God I know Kyle from playing basketball wow and then he was like yeah probably you know I'm doing mixed Engineers you do Kyle's out of here man super nice beautiful pressure everybody that was a part that did they think yeah y'all didn't miss and I'm I'm a stickler for that's for your order like order and transitions yes like it's it's God how it marries the gameless It's gotta be like you know I mean I I I'm in some conscious I'm just like why did y'all do that why did you do that we're not the same way we're not some yeah those are most most yeah those are two hit records but that's not how you do this and that was the thing I mean we we it was such a brutal process for us because we felt that we're the same way yeah so it's like making sure that was cohesive making sure the the extra stuff that we added on top of the hit didn't get it was all of that but it's also tougher when you have like if you got an artist that just gets in front of the mic and sings and just has the band you know making those Transitions and and marrying those records together is is way easier than having a Performing Artist that has 30 dancers right uh four set Chains Don't forget the clothing change we'll get the girl on the post oh stripper pole get the girl on the pole you have to build it build in time building time from the change so many different moving pieces moving pieces and I think too I mean I think you know I've I've been on the stage with him for the past 13 years and so understanding the amount of time he needs to get out of his jacket understand the amount of time they need to bring out the new rigging on the stage like yes all those pieces right and then they throw you know they slap you with you only got 75 minutes how do we squeeze these hits in and then there's changing one of the things that Bob was always saying was okay this once the train leaves the station and the show starts he needs room to breathe again and take a breath and okay so what's that body of Music gonna sound like ah um uh There goes my baby we're gonna play this we'll flip it lady in the light lady in my life you walk off stage and we just we we hold the audience yeah of course it hopes yeah exactly yeah yeah so you know and that there lies the genius today right so where do you go yeah and what you'll find too is most songwriters and producers can't put a show together they don't right they don't know most people think yeah it's tough but look at our cloth Jimmy and Terry absolutely they're musicians first absolutely they will rock a show first I'm sure so it is yeah yeah it's a hybrid and that's the thing that we've seen uh because Adam Blackstone came to the show he was like dude yeah you did you went to church you went you went to the Midwest you like and it was great because you it was authentic and and we're sticklers like no don't try to turn that into something you better not mess with that and to hear us over some talk box was crazy yeah and nice and slow with the vocal they're trying to do some oh Teddy you know how deep is your love kind of fine and then still not take away from the record I mean like to hear your guys's feedback about the content for me is like because I respect what your your opinion that was the thing I was like that's the truth I said Teddy come come to the show so Teddy came and he was like wow he spanked Teddy so hard bro it's it's easy for all of us it's easy to hate you know what I'm saying yeah yeah like I think it's cool like yeah I mean I like Usher you know what I'm saying it's bam I could have yeah it was set up for the hate to begin same way I did with with Justin Timberlake 2020 and um certain shows I had to certain you know certain Dynamics and certain marriages of musicians and artists and and stages like certain things you just gotta internalize just all the way gotta audit it all the way and then say okay I like that let me steal some of this yeah a lot of the stuff I can't afford [Laughter] don't worry about it won't fit in the venues I'm in all right let me get that pyro machine can I take that just one get one of those um but that was what I was what I was getting to was that was you know my my most recent moment of seeing you guys at work and you guys are still going high level you're still cooking well man when you love it you know you yeah I mean even when you hate it you find a way find a way man if you could but you could do it it's but it's still the love and even within the hate yeah absolutely because you you when you when you really love something you accept everything that comes absolutely that's it right there man that's powerful when you really love powerful yeah it all comes back to the woman right better bring it all the way down we always say like you know music like Terry we all say like you know music doesn't like pressure and every now and then that lady man she she's gonna she might say you can take me out tonight and then and don't call you for a few months that's music like you just we keep chasing her chasing and chasing and then like music is a notorious ghoster she ghost rides everywhere I text you and called you like five times like you're not gonna pick up what about yesterday everything was good but as soon as you done with it you get a hit yeah literally when you yeah literally yeah stop calling she called you yeah you ain't calling me no more hey um amazing yeah we could do this all night because you have that kind of catalog you have that kind of pedigree and you're still active active volcano damn liquid hot magma as we speak about the current is your current you have current records out yes this is is the record called glue yes sir by Usher nasty right climbing the charts had a conversation with uh Sean Garrett ah we're not great the great job our brother love him man that's my bro I love you I said I was like you know I just find it suspicious you know what I'm saying it's just crazy that you know you haven't got on your piano and and got on your Instagram and same glue I don't like it don't play I said do you think that that's on purpose I just got back from too easy I don't know I don't know what to call it I just don't like it how did that record just give me give me give me a quick spill on how that works man um John was was booking the studio in Vegas and little John yeah and so he was like man come on out and Sean Garrett's gonna gonna be out here so whatever we come out come up with you know he's gonna write so he's like do you know Sean I was like yeah I I've met Sean before we worked with him a couple times so we've got we fly out and uh me and John are messing with some ideas and then Sean gets to the studio and he comes in with like yo man we gotta do this this one for us and it was like I really kind of wasn't in that space you know I just like want to get together and write and when Sean walked in we hadn't seen each other in like maybe nine years and it was a lot of the oh my God Barbie oh Sean man dude and so I was like the first thing we did was this kind of concept that he and John had and I was like well that's that's just Minneapolis yeah so I said engineer get the piano and I I'm not using these plugins get the real piano mic at front back boom boom Center put in the middle of the room take it from it but I needed to have some space yeah and I started playing and John put the Groove Together and it was like I cut it in like 10 minutes I did one pass where got the base got the tones right I said I need some a signature sounds gotta have some guitar let's like take him out of that comfort zone and you know did some Minneapolis on it and Sean had a melody and glue was birthed like in 45 minutes is what it is yeah about 45 minutes and yes came to the studio that was it what the next day so his came in and and heard the record he was like crazy crazy and it developed we La wanted strings and all kinds of stuff and to us killed the vocal and it became glue yeah you know and it was like it needs Dynamics and then Terry called Sean like yeah it needs Dynamics and you know Terry's like all right man my boy's on it so I'm gonna tell you what you need and it pushed Sean and and he got an incredible vocal performance out of us for sure you know in a time too I think that record for him he loves performing it is different for him but it's got musicality and it's not too Musical and I think that's the hybrid that we have with John it's like you get the simple that simple sensibility but then you also get those Dynamics and I think the chemistry that we have together is like it it allows for it to be something like glue and you would never think like little John you know yeah well you you talk to him you sat down next to him and he courted you on the show so he was definitely um walked me through it but I understand his music yeah you know exactly where he's coming yeah yeah and before that I think because we were in a space we had um just did a record called a hard-working man with Snoop and Billy Ray Cyrus Snoop and Billy Ray snooping Billy Ray Cyrus and it's a record me and my brother produced and Billy Ray Cyrus Snoop is the greatest of all oh he's out here he is for sure he's out of here he can do anything he wants he does anything he wants and it works and he got the best Instagram page he does the dog is not out of place in the world bro he and he can like he can never do too much like more give me give me more and when you think it's like oh he's all over and it's like he's talking to Stephen a talking about the Lakers yeah I mean that was another labor love DJ Quick actually right here yep give me a record yeah crazy that was that was another record or track we had just kind of sitting in the cannon and we set from day one like this joint is it needs gonna need like some characteristics the right artists the right vehicles and then a couple years later that that moment presented itself in Bob had a vision it was like Billy Ray Snoop man this could be it it's just I just did the race new you know you just come up within your mind because you know you can reach out to those type of people's crazy connect the dots put it together and now we're here talking about it all right Billy Ray uh the real stuff I'm gonna pick up they both picked up but put them on a three-way and um just show up let's come come to the studio I got this thing and it and it [ __ ] it happens and it happens I mean you know you never do anything by yourself you know I think a lot of the resources and and the relationships that we put together man it just you know snow really came from fko presents a promoter who promotes an incredible amount of shows a party Stoops Army yeah it's like the thing is again concept right so if you have a vision and you can see something bigger yeah you pull in the resources to help make it what it's supposed to be and you give them the credit and you you win you know Mike had Michael Jordan had Pippin absolutely you know Shaq had Kobe Kobe had Shaq you know and Phil like it takes a team shout out to Kev who helped really put that together we got net you know we got Snoop to come out to Nashville we shot the video white boy Billy Ray came out so there's a lot of people that that you know you don't really get to see their faces but you know they move mountains man and we've been blessed to have those type of guys around us throughout our journey I also think too well we all what we like to talk about and what is going to be like a running theme for us is you guys are good guys man that's the key ingredient people like you yeah people it's not just it's not just music it's the idea of people uh feeling safe and and feeling great energy yeah in being in those rooms with you guys and that that moves mountains yeah there's a lot to be seen I agree there's no there's no good guys finishing last you guys are winning yeah because they're good guys that's real yeah and that's a big piece of that man I want to let's give you those flowers man I mean thank you man the world here trust me don't cry I'm in that bathroom you're so right about that bro because I think we're more than ever at where the road is at right now I think you know we've lacked for so long just being able to work with good people and people that care about you make money with people that care actually care about you yeah and I think that's the space we've now have come into is like you know there's nothing better than winning with people that you know care about if you make it home at night right like hey man have a great Sunday man enjoy time with your kids you know it's like you get to that space man it ain't it ain't even about the check anymore yeah yeah you know it's about the sense of peace and knowing that my squad is with me and we take care of each other nobody feels like they're being janky or it's you know it's like because you hear that so often right yeah especially when you come from a camp and it's like you hear the horror stories man now you just want to move with good people that's it yeah and peace like man I call Terry or he'll call me and it's like every week his brother Jerome you know Jerome from the time of course and it'd be like we just laugh and we you know I go see Morris in in Phoenix and the time it freeze and all the fellas it's like different man and to think like they were my heroes you know to be able to be in that space like it was crazy and you know I can never get immune to us like he's still gonna be that more absolutely like you're still that guy like me and El Debarge like man the love that we have for each other is like I remember being a little kid listening to you know all this love at five years old never thinking like I'm gonna know these guys yeah yeah you know that's the power of music yeah Power music takes strangers in your life and makes them a part of your life you know that's like the craziest thing right music brought us together yeah absolutely that's how powerful it is yeah yeah you know good music yeah good music there is a difference speaking of good music I have friends that make Trash music I do what I do I have friends whose music isn't the greatest I love them oh [ __ ] um and then he says you should play fpj because I love how those conversations go yeah you ain't got a gym foreign [Music] [Music] your top five yes top five your top five all of these singers songs [Music] [Music] [Music] here we go here we go I'm gonna say I'll hit five top five singers okay Marvin and Stevie yeah Jesus Christ aggressive I gotta go with Donny Hathaway um and Felipe win oh y'all now y'all gotta split one now yeah what's the side means yeah what's the deal Bobby Caldwell ah amazing what a voice hmm amazing what a voice [Music] and just how he moved with the chords oh man you know what you gonna do for love was written for Earth Wind and Fire it's the demo foreign wow wow we don't hear them all that's the last thing we got to talk about at some point we don't hear them all right yeah okay top five r b songs you love send one Your Love When Doves Cry hmm he's shooting yeah he can't eat loaded too yeah the cheat codes in his glasses y'all was first in Texas it's RV song so I gotta you know for all we know um Donny Hathaway I love that one the patience on that record yeah just to be subtle on it yeah um and I'd say the second song um uh gotta answer my pants and I need to dance James Brown hmm he went to this he was a James Brown I'll take the fifth one what's going on ain't no argument here classic song yeah and here's what's it when you get into our cars that's exactly what we listen to yeah yeah day in and day out yeah yeah some Knee Deep Knee Deep some James Taylor you got to stay connected to that you gotta have it in yourself that's the best information that's the yeah I went running the other day to Mint Condition mint Factory oh man I just I just had to have it I had to get it in my body for a second when I hear so fine you know what what is wrong with me I flew to Vegas last week right last week I gotta um uh Ricky from Mint Condition uh tagged me on a post and I forgot to tell y'all this but when it wasn't on for me the fellas who really took care of me and were gonna make me part of their production company and the artist it was my condition wow and the love that we have for each other and that relationship is it's like the crazy Bond wow and they gave me the strength to to keep going and those Brothers right there not only are they so bad amazing guys though but they're amazing human beings yeah yeah yeah as you say that it's like man stalking Ricky Jeff and uh Larry man those study material for me Terry Lewis oh man so far material yes all right here we go making your perfect R B singer the One You're Gonna sign and sell 100 million records with okay called this r b Voltron we want to know who you gonna get the vocal from for that artist the performance style for that artist The Styling for that artist and the Heart of that artist the passion who are you grabbing the vocal from for your artists color you can collaborate you can talk about it if you need to I mean I would get I would get I would get a car I would say Bobby I'm I would say El DeBarge I will get El Debarge for just the passion and the Nuance no no the vocal we started the vocal oh we're starting the vocal okay just the vocal oh vocal see I have to and I'm I have to think relevancy too right how that vocal fits in relevancy too because that's part of our pedigree his cloth the DNA of where we're from but also making sure connects we're in the right frequency you can tell some people that got hit records I mean they start thinking of the frequency formulas on the radio formulas um uh uh vocally Marvin Gaye I'll rock with you on that um gotta perform like Michael though performance style so you can give Marvin's voice and then performance style yeah that would be unreal yeah and then what's the next you gotta be able to play an instrument The Styling of you oh The Styling of the artist yeah that's what we look like we're gonna drip like yeah that's gonna sound a little crazy but you put that combination with with like a Rick James yeah yeah I like that yeah so he's a player he's a player listening all night might show up in all leather when I came home last night yeah yeah you wouldn't even talk to me we're crafting the Superstar so yeah yeah no a superstar superstar people don't give Rick his flowers Rick was a Powerhouse oh man a musicians and he could write a song yeah oh and he's gonna write and produce it and he was disrespected yeah he was disruptive on okay all right The Passion of the artist The Heart of the artist you kind of alluded to it before but I don't know if you want to change that uh it's got to be Prince um yeah All or Nothing y'all was just telling stories about that kind of off camera about how competitive oh yeah and how much of a catfish fierce fierce he was he was music at all costs it's all costs man I have stuff in that in the vault that I got from him like music that you won't you'll never hear a God how he did the walk like just with Morris playing the drums and him playing the bass trying to figure out like he was it yeah and he did everything with the time it was all him it was him and him and Morris wasn't Jimmy Monty none of them it's all Prince she's crazy yeah sheesh yeah man man y'all Hey listen man y'all sick y'all are sick Bro [Music] twinkle fingers [Music] because both of y'all have had long Journeys and travels in this thing that we call music and uh the name of the topic and the segment in the game is I ain't saying no names so your story funny or [ __ ] up or funny and [ __ ] up mine's funny and [ __ ] up perfect so we're gonna go let's do it I ain't saying No Name you didn't hear from me I didn't say none here's the key to my story Campbell Soup's good food you ready yeah yeah man we're in the studio working with the artists yeah um doing a couple records hey man my friend just came through man is it cool if he comes up oh yeah yeah bring him up we're vibing we're chilling we got all the we got all the gear in the in the room so we're we kind of have it set up like we can jam at any given moment me Bob Terry Big Jim no no no they're cool they're cool okay okay yeah they're cool they're safe yes they're safe it's easy say all right all right cool man we're five minutes all good bring them up comes on up we're like oh oh what's up man are you hey man you know we're just sitting here vibing man all right cool man um hey hey Bob play something hmm it is hey man get come in here and sing something man come sing my stomach hurts your stomach hurts but you can sing man come on man come Vibe with us I don't feel good my tummy for real man get up why are you under there laughing get up man lay over Bobby and Terry Lewis over there just busting the ball and we're like yo you ain't gonna jump in here and just sing man it's all we're all vibing it's free cam my tummy hurts hey man if you knew who it was if you knew who it was remember the key to my story Campbell Soup's good food so do you think they were scared to say I don't know what it was I don't know if it was something in his tummy or he just didn't want to sing but it was weird and soft it was weird just and I think how how amen I'm acting it up hey man it's weird and soft listen to me this um [Laughter] but what was even crazier was my brother's literally on the floor under the console dying that's great and Terry's like I can't there's a few reasons because he's he's gotta go crazy we were hype we're like oh this boy could blow yeah man come fly with us okay I ain't saying no name uh yeah this one was very eye-opening so we're in the studio it's me is and it's Terry and Jimmy and it was a very Monumental moment because there's a guy who had this record that was amazing killing and so we found out he was on his way to the studio so he comes by and Jimmy and Terry take him to the back one of the back Studios that we had um had a conversation with them he had a number one record booming and one of our favorites one of a lot of people's favorites and Jimmy Terry give him like the uh that talk based on him I'm gonna tell you what to do or not to do and um to have that conversation they come out of the room he says his goodbyes and uh they said I don't think we're ever going to see him again and I said really no we've seen a lot come and a lot go you ain't gonna hear from him and we ain't heard from him ever since would they do to that boy in that room man they gave him a dose and we ain't never heard from the real people and they were right so when a wise man tells you I've seen them come and I've seen them go and when they say oh he's great no greatness is always defined over a period of time they gave him the crown too quick and guys who have been able to do it over and over and over and over again knew it blew my mind I paid attention even more wow I gotta know who that is we never asked a guess who it is gonna be in my DM who was it man whose tummy hurts he was gonna tell me no I don't understand leave me alone listen bro y'all are man y'all are history man you guys you guys are yeah you've done it over and over again over and you keep doing it [ __ ] um shout out to your longevity um shout out to um just maintaining yourselves yeah maintaining uh your mental health your physical health yeah absolutely um throughout this journey man um and and [ __ ] thank you for this love man awesome Realty like man what you guys have put together here just the experience of what it what it means for guys like us to just come chop it up and and share stories and just the camaraderie of what this is because at the end of the day man like we needed this years ago where we could just come break bread and chop it up as human beings man and yeah you know a lot of times the game is kept us so separated you know and there's no governing body yeah music yeah so there isn't man and we've been a such fan of yours for a long time I don't know how we've never even been able to link with you and just create and build together yeah just give him an NPC we'll fix it that's all he cares about it and I'm going to tell you you know the reason why you guys mean a lot to us is because you guys are from the same cloth we're from you know the expectation of what Excellence represents that's all we've ever tried to do throughout our journey and more importantly because you know we're doing something that based on our skin color we shouldn't really be able to do as well as we do it but what keeps us going is that the kids that look like us get to now think beyond what those limitations are 100 you know and you know to be embraced by you guys and your culture the way we have is a blessing yes sir and even though we've had to earn and fight for it but that's rightfully so you know you guys are a master at what this this beautiful body of music that you guys have created throughout the years that we're such fans of and appreciated and want to make sure we pay homage and most importantly do it the right way you know so to be able to sit in a room with you guys and for you guys to have always embraced us and welcome us it means a lot man yeah you know and we absolutely and we and because of that we are sticklers for even our own culture that wants to embrace black music and introduce it or work hard on them because you have to do it in such a way that's excellent that represents Excellence you know so thank you guys man you know for making us feel a part of the family yeah come on man y'all our family yeah yeah yeah man obviously look at videos we shared the same stage with the with the school toys yes crazy the early grind back then back then yeah and the thing is like that's what I say like the the ones who know blank no yeah you know what I mean you just you can't you can't fake it and make it in this thing you either you either have it or you don't and he's he's still pretty look at him man I'm not looking at him look the same way you do bro good like that's how you know the game to beat him up yeah and you know they'll look at me like Damn Bob like what do you eat what are you putting in your face like a bald Beaver camera right here well you know you got Botox and plastic surgery that's what I meant that's what I meant to say it just came out it just came out I just have too much [ __ ] in me because I don't take myself that seriously take the art music seriously and then let it beat me like it could have now I got some battle wounds but thank God I'm still here like we're we're still here right like you know at the end of the day I just want him to say good like well done good faithful sir yeah you do what you're supposed to do with what what I gave you okay so for the people at home that are watching this Avila Brothers yes or our Villa brothers you know what man we used to be sticklers for that no let's be a stickler right now let's get it they they bet Avila yeah I've been saying it around my whole life because I've known these guys forever but but where I'm putting the the accent is Avila Avila yeah is that is it or Avila yeah it's on the edge of Spanish bro he's Spanish the Avila Brothers yeah there you go that's got so much money attention listen my name is tank I'm Jay Valentine this is the Army money podcast The Authority yeah on all things yeah r b yeah our brothers the Grammy winners the Manos yes the Grammy one is the first Aladdin Grammy winners in the urban space wow why not yeah why not yeah come on thank you sir thank you all thank you all for having us man thank you [Applause]

Channel: R&B Money Podcast

Views: 76,324

Keywords: Tank, jvalentine, r&b, money, podcast, music, entertainment, 90s, 2000s, hits, playlist, slowjams, r&bmoney, rnbmoney, r&b money podcast, r&b money, r & b money podcast, r and b money, tank podcast, j valentine, rnb money, tank, r&b podcast, tank r&b money, r and b podcast, rb money, r&b money tank, tank and j valentine, r & b money, j valentine podcast, tank j valentine, j valentine tank

Id: RKbNW7LUXLI

Length: 164min 18sec (9858 seconds)

Published: Sat Jul 01 2023