Taxi Trouble in St. Louis

an old saying says we can learn more from failure than from success I want to share with you an arrival at st. Louis Lambert International from a while ago which ended safely but there was room for improvement so in the spirit of learning here's my flight into STL focusing on taxiing on the ground I'll highlight what I think I should have done better and also what I think could have done a bit differently to be more helpful let's go flew is not really voluntarily I can't make it home in a two-seater Ohio because to 6000 was it 8000 earlier but the temperature got closer and closer to freezing 6200 pedometer + 6 + 7 degrees Celsius it should get a little colder still as we get to San Luis like every cent more food st. Louis approached good evening finances 7-0 Tino Bravo 6000 with information tango madam 7-0 tango Bravo fellows folks he's planning out of this run away from matter planning is to dine up in his Symphony rubble a two-niner is the one to the south Bonanza lira tango Bravo contact approach one to one point zero to one to one point zero to Bonanza Sarah kissing Bravo everything is 33 kid no phone 38 turn lessening three three zero nor so for my three go right localizer 330 heading intercept the three two right localizer Southwest 11:30 San Luis approach good evening financier seven zero tango Bravo 6000 very hot Bravo press redress and victor is current now what answers do you think Bob well get Victor was outrageous information Victor two one five five potential zero five zero fat free mobility thick brain with 900 over ten temperature thousand 2.6 how timid or two minor minor I'll have runway briefly oh right I'll have the runway two-niner of approach can you Harvey runway breeze year old left two-niner-five company what answers you think Obama has information Victor Nance's your Oh Tina Bravo thank you are you a thing abroad with everything witnesses you think Volvo won 5-0 are you okay no bravo defender maintain 5000 leaving 6,000 to 75,000 finances you think problem heard your thing overall 19150 knots or greater 150 a great open answers using a problem we're doing a brothel 1800 here on define I maintain 4,000 heading two niner zero center maintain 4,000 potentially Obama at this point the audio record I had with me stopped working with a little help I was able to reconstruct most of the radio communications but you'll hear it is a recording from the ground not from my airplane the other thing about the turn right heading three zero [Applause] zero tango Bravo descent I maintain 3,500 and present speed or less know without 500 0:10 umbrella in lessening three to zero nurse the primary to 911 [Music] your thing abroad we just passed jigum maintain 3000 attila played their Clarion Frank unite approach you don't think I brother 3000 and fell establish make sure you got that at least hours but ends at 7:00 the other thing of all with an island to die no potion and seven sort of thing abroad most of all most power when the concern I'm 0 8 3 runway two-niner third point to tie like Leon Panetta's never that's a problem don't freaking 22:26 turn left the high speed tanks away and then the cross room right usual have to Papa angle right to Quebec as you do and they still haven't pushed her gate I think that was an issue too so papa Quebec Charlie and hold us about 14 you'll cross one which is one topic go back Charlie we're gonna cross 3-0 left on Quebec American 20 to 26 the 80s had appetize 900 feet overcast when I broke out it was more like 400 feet I have runway two-niner in front of me on the south side of the airport by the time I roll out I will be about as far away as possible from signature the only FBO on the field the earliest turnoff and runway two-niner is the high speed exit at alpha 4 I thought I'd help by asking for a long landing but to my surprise the tower didn't respond 23:26 just as soon as you can get to it okay so that was the other thing about always a lot letting approve to get you that thing here for 24 turn left heading that to 5 5 to 5 5 care for 34 start about the long time out there but I have to get down to 9 and so she could be I'm on heading care for 24 can't act Marxist to 55 over departure care for therefore we'll see you later 1197 st. Louis runway two-niner line up and we turn our lineup away don't 1197 oh it's been 39 41 iOS 3 there right Scott's turn now 41 so most family trees rank there's no way in 1 1 0 0 look for and what is your games thank you a recruiting line runway 3 Vera parking alpha 16 alpha 16 it's gonna be runway 3 0 right through your third way in 30 right Fran Wisconsin turn and 40 class right there that was fun today and everyone sitting in the reopening a problem will turn right next to x-ray the high speed and cross alpha Toronto Bravo and then content ground 1 18.9 to see how fast red light or rub off on each voice sciences or alpha control [Music] not lose ground ooh do you think bananaz70 okay always on taxiway Bravo we couldn't take Peter signature bananaz70 tango Bravo Sam lose ground control Bravo tango Delta hold short only two 460 Bravo tango Delta hold short runway two-four whenever seven good thing about so here's a little nitpick the taxiway Delta it would help to hear whether the ground controller wants to turn left or right he didn't say he did say to hold short of runway two-four which implies a right turn on Delta so it was clear from the context once I looked at the airport diagram 1 through 17 18 st. Louis ground controller runway 3 0 left X again charlie trees are left like Sevilla Charlie for accepting bonanza zero tango Bravo 1 Delta crossly to four whole truck victim a tooth for and whole chart of Quebec Peninsula thing a problem and that's all right on the other discover affirmative zero tango Bravo of your second right turn dealt across the borehole jerk effect rival Delta across to four little short Quebec dependency level Todd 2275 Saint Louis brown control behind for interior only three zero left active you Charlie Charlie three zero a lot about 20 to 75 it was girls colony 119 information Victor at signature ready for taxi calling me 119 st. Louis ground control when we 3-0 left xeb Foxtrot Juliet hold short the homely threes are right Foxtrot Juliet and all short of three one right first four three 0s to call anyone idea colony 119 verify hold short three zero right at you it 3-0 right at Julia calling on my teeth I feel really bad about this next one I had been holding here for a while and had all the time in the world to anticipate the controllers next move but I didn't when he called me I was not even ready to write down his instructions Colony 119 traffic at the marker cross way 3-0 right Echo hotel taxi degrees or less three zero right Echo hotel two three zero Lost Colony 180 bonanza zero tango Bravo traffic holding in position a Quebec roughly 3-0 left full short of echo supper that's a feel thing about Vegas strout's goes fifty six eight teams ready to push off after Bonanza zero tango Bravo English copy take this again for the necessary level zero tango Bravo traffic holding in position without delay turn left Welbeck cross wait three zero left over to echo alright let's turn off your back cause three two zero left hold for the vehicle but that's a thirty-six try to choose ready to push off Haleh can you guys 622 from 18 pushes approved advisory to taxi does Victor's current you can remain this frequency anguish paperwork and meter Raj appreciate it we've got Victor bonanza zero tango Bravo take the right turn on Echo hold short of kilo right rate on a cohort of kilo bonuses the other thing follow bonanza zero tango Bravo past behind Southwest left to right at Lima okay I'll pause here because things are about to get really messy the ground controller said to pass behind Southwest that's the Southwest 737 in front of me at taxiway Lima earlier he had told me to hold short at kilo which is a little further down and the Southwest 737 is already clear off to my right so do I have to wait where and what for here's how that turned out and he can see just how confused I was bonanza zero tango Bravo famous yes sir I heard ask behind the leave I thought I was affirmative path behind Southwest left-to-right at Lima ok holding sort of leave up housing behind ah so he wasn't referring to the Southwest I saw in front of me earlier he was referring to another Southwest which had just touched down and was rolling out looking back all of this makes sense now but here's a suggestion for ATC if you no longer want me to continue to kilo and instead hold short earlier at Lima just tell me to hold short of Lima that is crystal clear and much easier to understand than saying to pass behind another aircraft especially when it's ambiguous which other aircraft is meant while it all worked out in the end this was more nerve-wracking than necessary for me and probably for the controller too zero tango Bravo turn left kilo hold short of runway three zero right let's have a kilo load sort of breezy alright so that's just another Girl Scouts at 6:30 rejecting but a zero tango Bravo traffic three mile final without the lake for us wait 3-0 write kilo one taxi signature please are lights kilo launched a second strip intensive it'll be a problem if you Jawas 56:22 fameless' ground runway two-niner taxi via Charlie Tango roughly two for Charlie Tango for my tyrannize custard is expensive the rest of the way was uneventful a taxi to the signature FBO we're parked overnight it's a big airport and the fees were accordingly $25.00 for landing and $50 for overnight parking the handling fee was waived because of our fuel 100 low lead is expensive but there was a weekend discount of 50 cents per gallon which helped a little the next day was still cloudy but a bit warmer and the ceiling was a bit higher I made it back home to Cedar Rapids an almost uneventful flight until at the very end my landing gear didn't come down maybe you've seen this video already if not you can get to it here as always I appreciate a like for this video in a subscription to my channel and if you have a question I want to share something you learned while flying write a comment here below this video on youtube as always thanks for watching fly safe and see you next time [Music]

Channel: Martin Pauly

Views: 29,370

Keywords: st. louis, STL, KSTL, Lambert International, St. Louis Lambert, st. louis airport, taxi trouble, trouble, flying, pilot, poor performance, cockpit view, taxi, taxiing, large airport, class bravo, flight training, multi engine training, pilot training, recurring training, cockpit video, pilot magic, pilots eye, cockpit landing, cockpit view landing, flight training videos

Id: 0qqMFycuJAg

Length: 17min 45sec (1065 seconds)

Published: Sat May 11 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/Lyme860]

Love your videos. No snappy distracting music, chock full of instruction, good maps and lots of ATC banter which I need right now as I am just venturing into Class D and Flight Following. Great stuff, thank you for taking the time to post.

[u/Smokey42356]

So note from a controller about your critique of ACT regarding the SW aircraft (And this is all my opinion/preferences). It sounds like ground was decently busy. A hold short requires the GC to make two transmissions one for you to hold and then another for you to continue, while a give way only requires one, the give way. The GC was saving about 6-10 second of radio time by giving you the give way. Also looking at the video the stop you had to make to give way was short so if they gave the hold you would either be waiting longer than needed or they would be coming back to you almost right after you finished your read back.

The GC did try to distinguish the SW aircraft by stating that it would be left to right on L. Now the aircraft was rolling out then and a clearer transmission would be "give way to the SW aircraft rolling out on 30R exiting at L" (but that is also slightly longer than just left to right at L) and also there is the minor issue (that I also sometimes make) of stating where and AC will be when the transmission is finished rather than where it is when the transmission is started.

My advise back to you is if you are given a give way at a point treat it as a hold short of that point until you know the traffic is past. In this case with the confusion, and this is just my opinion/preference, would be for you to hold short of L and query, something like this:

​

AC: ACID, give way to the SW at L, I don't have him in sight.

GC: ACID, He is rolling out 30r

AC: ACID, In sight

​

Much shorter and concise then the controller not getting an immediate read back, seeing you still rolling sightly forward, and having to reissue the instruction in full again.

And once again this just my opinion/preference. I have not worked a B (yet), but I do work at an airport that has fairly complex ground movements and can get quite busy.

[u/Martin_Pauly]

We all have bad days sometimes, right? I sure had one going into St. Louis Lambert International (STL) in the Bonanza a while ago. I bet my taxi from the runway to the FBO did not impress the ground controller. In the spirit of learning, let me replay for you what happened, and see what I could have done better.

The bottom line is: making (occasional) mistakes is part of life, but we should seek to learn from them.

[u/Gravity88x]

I’m shocked they made you land out on that far runway. When I had a job flying a Meridian into STL weekly I always requested 30R for the turn off right down there by kilo out of the way and just up the hill to signature. Seemed like that was the norm for them to do for private aircraft

[u/Zeus1325]

No flight through the arch. Clickbait

[u/VillageIdiotsAgent]

That controller kept rapid firing instructions at you like he was working rush hour at ORD, and was getting irritated when you didn't immediately pick up on the pace like you were a 20,000 hour airline pilot. The problems were all his creation. You did fine.

My best advice to avoid this in the future is the magic word "unfamiliar." Tell them you are unfamiliar. They should slow down and give you clearer instructions, if not downright progressive. It's their job. Don't feel bad for asking them to do it. Specifically ask for progressive if you need it.