Table In The Back | Part. 1 | Sammy "The Bull" Gravano X Anthony Ruggiano Jr.

today we go back in time to put together the real history of the Gambino family [Music] we lived it from the beginning till now fat Andy was a Powerhouse in this new era of the Gambino family with his son Anthony Jr by his side at all times Anthony grew up in their life he knows a different side of the family that I know foreign [Music] now hopefully people who have a tremendous understanding of the Gambino family like never before [Music] welcome to table in the back Sammy how are you but he's been so long 30 years man yeah you look great you look great for an old guy yeah you look good much love real quick man it's been so long yeah the last time I saw you was 1990. right before you got pinched right before we got pinched in December right December before Christmas and that's when I saw you right around that time and then you got pinched and I went away in 91 and I haven't seen you since that 1990 oh my God he came down once you fought them I believe that was before way before that when I was the first time I actually met you was when I was a kid my father had the tapers union right and he came to your construction you're at an office in Brooklyn I think you had a strong ride stole everything yeah and he took me there talked about I don't know what you just talked about but that's the first time I actually met you but the last time I saw you was 1990 wow yeah you know I've been watching your videos I watch all your videos and I and and I call and every time I see a video you met people's names that I know and I call my my friend up pasquago man Sammy's talking about Joe to catch him he's talking about this guy got to get together with him I did so much stuff with these guys especially when you talked about Joe the cat like I was telling you yeah I worked for him and I got pinched with him in 19 1974 I was a kid I was in the ravenite and my father's taking me to Peter Lucas and we had a buddy who somebody had the number office across here from his Cafe and I told my father I gotta run into the office to take care of something and when I come back we'll go to Peter Lucas and I went there and they kicked the door and I got arrested and that was Joe the cat's number business from Staten Island he was a good guy a good guy a ton of money did he yeah yeah you know why he had uh before the bridge the Staten Island Bridge there was all farmland and he was out there so all that land was his everybody recognized it's his and he used to do book making stuff like that numbers and everything all of the island out there when they built the bridge and everybody went over and it populated he was still in charge of all of you know his business quadrupled I know so he made a ton of money they used to take the numbers in on this on the ferry before the bridge went up right yeah oh yeah forget tunnel but then I didn't see much in the San 70s until you got straightened out then I saw you start coming around right and and to the ravenite but uh yeah it's so crazy because when I listen to your stories oh my God it brings back so many memories about all the guys back then and uh you know of course when then you became the underbus then that was a different story when used to stand you know by the table because people know that when you used to stand by John remember when we used to walk into the rain tonight we were walking tall at least my father's partner Tony Lee he was he was a pistol we used to come into the Raven I remember and we would walk in and you would be in the back by the table and John would be sitting there and you'll be standing up next to him like this and Tony would go to shake your hand and you would go like this to Tony Lee anything to get him angry oh my God but uh forget it we could talk about all day about the stuff like that but you know it's funny because I said I was thinking about something my father was a wise guy you know my I mean of course you know with title and everything and he goes back to the 50s you know and I'm thinking about how I got into that life you know like so I was born in 53 my father got straightened down to 53 so the same as I was born to and I know I think your father he was a legitimate guy your father yeah right I know what attracted me to it would attract you know what and I always like to ask guys like you like What attracted you to to that life like I know I wasn't What attracted me was when I was a kid everywhere I went like you and you you probably could identify this because it happened to you personally everywhere I went when he walked in a room the atmosphere changed right we went to restaurants to owners sat with us we went to bars and people catered them people would give me money and I always knew something was different but I didn't know why and that attracted me you know and then as I got older right well with me growing up I was in the Rampage again street gang right so we always knew who the mafia was and uh what they did and all the names Carlo gambling all these names big names people and uh Benson ice Brooklyn was packed everywhere you went every bar every restaurant every club's all over the place so you kind of knew what it was and you looked up to them they were like Idols to us yeah it's like you're saying when they walked in a joint even when they came around and we looked at them holy [ __ ] look who that is called my first ago or this one or that one I had one day we were in the pool room everybody went running to the windows so I said what is it what do they say so we looked out when I looked out the window and Joe bonano was coming out he had a fedora uh long black coat white scarf I mean and oh my God that's so banano yeah so you know you will Aura it with this stuff and uh but we never joined we never did anything uh it was us it was the Rampage it was us against the world all that [ __ ] um I went away in the military and uh when I was 19 years old a Vietnam War I got drafted I went away I came out when I was 21 years old and my friends who was us against the world they all started hooking up with somebody yeah somebody with the Genovese the Columbo this one that one and a friend of mine Tommy Sparrow said my uncle wants to talk to you shorty Sparrow and I had a meeting with him and he said listen you're a tough kid you're gonna raise your hands to the wrong guy and you're going to get killed yeah for sure you don't have nobody behind you if you come with me you'll be part of a family and we had a good heart to heart talk I like the way he talked it was an ex fighter right up my alley a tough guy um and I gravitate to that I mean I really do and uh so I shook his hand and I started in the Colombo family and uh I did my first hit and that was it I was hooked yeah yeah at me when I it's funny because when I got all into my neighborhood and I would go to the corner to the picture I would hear the older guys going that's they would whisper that's fat Andy's son that's fat Andy's son and that's how I found out he was mobbed up and that's when I started learning about Woody who he was and then a couple of newspaper articles and then I just got lost and then when I got thrown out of school because you know he had a big reputation my own man when I got thrown out of school he took me when he finally put me to work he put me to work in a blackjack game with this guy called Philly to pimp I don't think he was a pimp but that was that was his nickname Philly everybody had nicknames for Sammy the Bull Philly the pepper fat Andy right right so anyway I went to work for him and then my father took me out one night to the um to Avenue D in Brooklyn to the uh what the hell was the name of the bar the five the five o'clock Lounge it was called and he takes me in the it's a Friday night and the joints packed Friday and I'm gonna forget I was like 17 and we walk in and people hey Andy how you doing how you doing and all sudden about an hour later twice later my father goes you see anything different I looked around and goes yes a lot of people left I told him he goes you know why they left I says no I don't know why it goes they left because I'm here he goes they have afraid to be around here they don't know what I'm here to help somebody kill somebody and they left he goes he said is that what you want like so I was like impressed I said oh [ __ ] that's you know all that respect that's what I want yeah so he thought it would like work work in Reverse but but it didn't it it worked in the opposite because I was like holy [ __ ] that's that's that like I want that I want people to respect me like that and then he introduced me to John Gotti through Charlie wagons because you know Charlie straightened my father out and John how yeah but Danny with all of them so you know I'm thinking about how far we actually go back we the bloodline goes back to Taro and my father in Anastasia that's that's where it goes back to because they were kids in the same regime with Tommy rabbit my father got straightened out in 53 I don't know when Taro got straightened out probably around the same time or maybe before that but anyway they were in the same regime and then Albert got clipped right and title went with Carl and my father went with Neil and there was a conflict and you know the story better than me with uh Tommy rather right by far who was my father's Captain yes and they were in the same crew with your father was with Tommy rabbit right right now and title and stuff who took out rather your guy Taro yeah in Florida I've heard in Florida yeah that's exactly what I've heard you know for the longest time when I was with him you know he would talk to me all the time but he never told me about he told me about Tommy rava and who that he was killed but he never told me the story how he killed him but I found out later when uh he was close with Carlo Gambino and uh mostly all of them a lot of them hated uh everybody yeah but to love them but yeah a lot of guys loved them I mean but a lot of guys hated them and uh so Taro uh went along with uh Carlo Gambino he was friends with him and when they had the Takeover Tyler wound up getting the contract to kill uh Tommy rava and uh you're right he killed him in Florida and he disappeared yeah and uh and then he immediately became a captain they made nail a captain but I'll show you how smart Carlo Gambino was he thought there was a lot of good guys on that side your father included your father's name was mentioned to me a hundred times I didn't know him personally but I knew of him super tough guy um and so Taro took over a lot of the guys who were in ravage crew but Carl was so smart he took Neil brought him up and he eventually took him to be his underboss right and it brought everybody together your father and all the people who were on the rather and Anastasia over to become one family one side no war no nothing he really he was smart yeah my father used to tell me all the time that Albert Anastasia was the toughest guy he ever met and Carlo Gambino was the smartest guy he ever met he said but Albert's downfall too Albert used to abuse he told me Albert used to abuse call Gambino down take money off from make him a captain then knock him down and make him a captain and knock them down and then of course he went with Genovese and they plotted against him but my father always told me he was swine and then my father told me when he met him when after he called them all in after they and they made peace he told my father that he understood that he was just taking orders because they clipped a lot of people forever yeah yeah yeah that was Albert's main crew Tommy Roberts guys they did all the work they had on my father Neil and he said I know you know you were just taking orders and and uh and then he and he brought them all back in and he made Neil the captain and then he made nailed the on the bus so you know I was a smart move yeah yeah he he was really smart by doing that and he told your father that uh one of his cousins wow but it was you know he uh it was just you know he had it what was he gonna do my father used to tell me Albert had a potato farm upstate and he said Albert used to call my father the kid because I would meet Albert they would give me a gun and and gloves and an address and tell me where to go and Albert told them one day you want to come you want to go on my farm and my father was that's okay I got my own places to hide he told him he said a lot of guys went up to the potato farm and never came back got a potato farmer upstairs yeah my father goes that's right I got my own spots to hide out yeah so that I was I used to get a kick out of my and my father told me which you could probably identify with that because she knew you did work he told me about the first time he clipped somebody I mean these it's funny because I tell people and like these were my these were my father-son chats that's with the mob you know what I mean like you know once I got in the street with my father then he started schooling me about who's who watched what you know who got strained out Sammy got straightened out this guy's a captain that guy's a captain he started taking me around that's when I met John Gotti for the first time you know because now when I was running around the neighborhood he didn't want me to get hurt if he wanted everybody to know I was his son so they looked out for me and if I did something wrong they wouldn't hurt me you know so he brought me to that to Charlie why well I knew Charlie because he straightened my father out so I knew him from when I was a kid and his brother Danny the head I knew both of them but I never met John or Angelo Crocker none of them until he took me to the club and that's when I met them and then he took me to Sierra peron's Club he had a club in the neighborhood you know he was the captain with the Genovese and then ozone parked just like your neighborhood every crew had a club everybody every Club everywhere everybody and they and they had they ran everything the they owned the bakeries they owned everything Christmas trees you couldn't sell a Christmas tree in East New York and Ozone Park my father had all the the Christmas tree spots you had to get Mission remember to sell a Christmas tree they had everything everything so he started taking me around introducing me to all of them and and uh and that's when I started you know that's how I started and then he started telling me about things he did and he told me about the first time he clipped somebody for the family he said after he got he was you know he was robbing poker games that's how he got made and Tony the Sheik put a beef you know I don't know if you've ever heard the story Tony did she put a beef in you know Tony to Chic because he was he was the captain with the original owner of Don Pep's restaurant everybody loves Don peps on left Pitts Boulevard across the street from where Goodfellows was Robert's lounge and he put a beef in and they had to sit down in New York Albert my father Tommy rather and all of them and my father to sit at another table and Tony the Chic was telling Alvin Anastasia this kid's an animal he has no respect and Albert Anastasia Tony to Chic and said well who do you want me to straighten out priests that was and that was the end of the conversation and then my father got strained out and then he told me they picked him up you could probably identify with this because your first time he was a kid he was living with his mother and he said he didn't even shave he goes he looked like a baby they picked him up Charlie with another guy in the car he got in the backseat and Danny was in the car in the crash car behind him he said I got in the car and we pulled away from Grandma's house with my grandmother's house because he was living with his mother we pulled the way to grandma's house and we when we got a few blocks away he said I whispered in his ear so me jerk I says what do you mean you're Whispering his ear he went I whispered in his ear I said and and then he told me I said well how did you feel he goes I was very nervous the first time he said but after the first time I wasn't nervous anymore yeah yeah well the first time I thought that I was going to be nervous and because I saw a movie where a guy killed somebody and he was sweating and uh um he was nervous and he got the shakes so I thought that's what happens to you so the first time I did a hit I thought that was going to happen to me I did the hit no time to get nervous or whatever when it was done I went to an apartment with my friends I went in the shower and I was waiting for all this stuff to happen to me but nothing happened I didn't feel anything I didn't feel any remorse I didn't feel nothing I didn't wasn't nervous I wasn't sweating I wasn't shaking and I went to sleep I slept like a baby I got up the next day a whole bunch of guys in the room the girls oh my God Joe Colucci was found dead and you know it's in the newspapers I remember asking one of the young girls I said that they find out who did it and she said no I they're investigating it but they don't have any Witnesses or anything like that I was the one who did it yeah and then it was taken by shorty Sparrow down to see Carmine Persico I was with him and true shorty and he gave me a hug and a kiss he great job Sammy he did a great piece of work got a pat on the back for him went out it was over I went to the funeral and I had no emotions whatsoever really bonded me is watching his family uh crying and you know you're part of that you did that you know what I mean that bothered me a little bit but after that I became a professional that guy yeah yeah that's what happens yeah so when did you meet John I know I met him when I was a kid I met him to my father when did you meet him I met him I got made I was transferred out of the Colombo family because I was going to kill Shorty's brother shorty got killed too eventually but uh I got transferred because of my beef with his brother I went to his house to kill him with a gun and they knew about it I wound up getting transferred over to the gambino families the gambino spoke for me um when I went there uh I was with title little Taro and uh I was there I got made in 1976 in 1977 I became we went to a Christmas party and all the made guys were in one room the associates and everybody was everywhere else and he put up a glass washing everybody Merry Christmas Happy New Year he said I never had an acting captain but I'm gonna have one now I got made with his son Charlie Boy and there was a couple of Old-Timers in the room sorry I didn't know who he was gonna name as his acting captain and uh when he put up his glass he said my new acting Captain is amitable so in 60s 76 I got made in 77 I became an acting Captain I was real close with Franklin Chico was like a big brother to me it's much older than me and every time he opened up a club I was there he opened up a club on Dietrich Avenue a crap game and so I went I'm by the bar and I was talking to his father I don't remember know if you remember boozy yeah sure yeah so I was in that same crew he was on the title yeah and I was talking with boozy and the door opened up and John Gotti came in I think he just got out of prison I think this was in 77 somewhere and he told me he says did you ever hear it John Gotti I said I did he says he's a good kid he's gonna he's gonna become one of us I mean it was going to become he wasn't made yet no he got made in 70 years yeah now here's how I heard about him um there I had a friend of mine who was in prison and there was some sort of a drug deal that went down with the black guys now he robbed the black guys he did the wrong thing and the black guys were gonna hurt him Somebody went over to John Gotti and said this guy was going to get hurt it's uh friends with Sammy Sammy knows him and he went over to the black guys and he spoke to them and he said listen the guy did the wrong thing I'm going to slap the [ __ ] out of him I'll give back the money um he's friends with a friend of mine in the street if you could do me a favor and give him a pass they gave him a pass which I didn't even know I didn't I didn't know what he did but I appreciated what he did yeah you know just the just the idea of how he did it and everything like that so I told boozy that's all I have ever heard of him but I'm going to thank him anyway so he came over he was one of the Entourage of guys like he always is came by to buy bought him a drank I thanked him for what he did and uh he said Sam I hear a lot of good things about you I say I hear a lot of good things about you too so I was already a friend a major guy he wasn't but soon after that he but that's the first time I ever met yeah and soon after that he became a guy he got out when he was on a furlough in 78 so and you met you know old Frankie did she come and all these guys they treat me so good I worked the crap games with all of them and um on March 3 but he gave in and I'll tell you in 78 he comes out on a furlough with him and Angela that one because of that guy they clipped years ago they did that big with the guy that clipped at Staten Island Irish guy right that he got to five years he's out on a furlough and 70 and I had to surrender myself and said that's why he was funny I had to surrender myself I had to go to jail I got five years in Long Island and that's that was the first time I went to prison in seven eight I was 23 and I and I don't know for some reason I woke up that day and I went to get a haircut I don't know I wanted to look good when I went to jail so I'm in the I mean father in some barber shop and I'm getting a haircut and he walks in with Angelo quack to get haircuts that was the week he got straightened out he was home on the furlough and I'm in the barber shop and he sees me goes what are you doing here you know and he knew I had to surrender that day he goes don't you got go surrender yourself to Safe tuna I said yeah I gotta surrender myself at two o'clock he goes get the F out of you go home to your wife what are you doing here getting a haircut what are you crazy I never went to jail he you know he goes he goes go home to your wife and he paid for my haircut and and I went home and then I went to jail when I came out he was he was already straightened out well let me get back to that because the guy that they killed in the joint um they did a movie about it and everything like that but uh the the Cyrus guy they kidnapped Carlo Gambino's nephew and they asked for 200 000 rents now the story that that Carlo Gambino went to his family called them all in now it was his nephew was I I don't know if it was his brother or sister's kid and he said listen we could pay the 200 000. but that jeopardizes our whole family all kinds of kids will be kidnapped trying to get money we're going to refuse the money and hopefully they'll give their kid back well he refused to pay the money and I don't know if they killed them or they cut his ear off or they killed him they killed them all right they killed them and they found out who this kid was who this guy was he wasn't a kid but uh and John Gotti Got It the contract and he went with a guy with quack quack and another guy do you know the third guy was I know who it is I just can't I can't think of his name either but he's the guy who actually I'll think of it three o'clock in the morning but they did they went in there with phony badges yeah they called them they said come outside he looked at the badges that's [ __ ] I could buy that in the [ __ ] store so he wasn't coming out no the third guy came out from the shadows and actually shot him they killed this guy later on that's why don't remember his name but they killed him and Angelo and John got pinched for the murder they got a five-year inside the world Carl had connections yeah with uh uh I forgot the lawyer's name yeah but they had connection with the case they got five years and age came out in 77 on furlough and got made so I got I became an acting cap at 77 so that's exactly right yeah in 78. he he got made when he was out on further for that hit yeah for that Hill exactly when that was going on when them they were they owned they kidnapped other people besides that relative of a call because when that was going on I remember my father wouldn't let me go out because he could stay with kidnapping other people Wise Wise Guys kids or whatever the hell they were doing and my father made me stay in the neighbor I couldn't go to the man he didn't want me to leave the neighborhood I had to stay in the neighbor until this guy got killed that but I mean that's crazy that's a death sentence to do something crazy like oh yeah yeah as soon as they find out who you were but I I was so much fun back then being mobbed up I mean I was a kid I was work I was making so much money I was working at crap games I was working in blackjack games I was getting into the Copa through the back door like just like in the movie Goodfellas I did that too yeah of course I was going and you know the first time I went to the Copa I was I I went to see Tom Jones remember when Tom Jones was the rage he had the TV show and my father took me to the Copa and we went in through the basement and up through the kitchen and we you know we sat along the rail and we saw Tom Jones and and just like in the movies and and I and then the movie comes out later of course many years later and you know everybody wants to talk about this movie everybody and I know all of them Tommy D Simone used to take me out with him I dated uh Jimmy Burke's daughter Kathy I mean my father got rid of a little tons of jewelry I mean so I was so was intertwined with that story when I'm in the theater I'm in the theater when the movie first comes out and I don't know what I mentioned my father's name in the beginning of the movie when they panned you know the the all the people in the bamboo like I don't ever go to the Bamboo Lounge when Paul Barrio had it yeah so uh I'm in the movie with all my friends with our girls and they're paying in the audience and all of a sudden they say fat Andy and all my friends that's your father Mo Black's brother fat Andy and his guys Frankie the [ __ ] and fitness pack movie and everybody's like staring at us it was it was uh it was a good feeling but it was funny it was comical yeah yeah I'm sure you get a lot of questions about this movie oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I I do I mean I did I knew we went when Paul vario died me and John went to the wait yeah we were on tape with that they were taking pictures and stuff like that I knew some of them I didn't know them closely I wasn't a hijacker John knew some of them you're out of the same neighborhood and you were doing the same thing um but um they had that pretty well airport locked up poor very own that crew I mean it really had it tight but there's other guys who did things there but not many I didn't yeah uh so uh but I knew I knew quite a few of them like I said we went to Paul various way uh his funeral and uh yeah those are those those were crazy back then so they had Frank dewap was Paul vario's guy I don't know if you he was he was he was with he was the guy that had the airport they had his kitchen bugged at the same time they had Angelo's house bugged because so they were getting a lot of tapes and Tony Lee got indicted for that for the airport because he was meeting with Frank we had that they had a a cargo joint in the airport and with the Teamsters Union and Paulie Valley had the teamsters in in Ken airport all locked up and they had Frank the wop's kitchen bugged so Tony Lee was on those tapes and he was on Angelo's tapes the tape stuff eventually it was Paul's demise well I I think it was everybody's demise yeah the problem with those tapes and I'm sure you will notice that when he was talking Paul and everybody put out a thing you you deal drugs you die yeah so he's in a house and he's talking to Eddie lean all kinds of drug dealers his brother was a huge drug dealer Sally Sally yes brother and then he had its own private jet he was flying his jet with his wife and the thing crashed Angelo took the kids I went to that funeral give me two St Helens yep yep I went to the funeral there I'm the the church yeah church thing uh I went there with a whole bunch of guys and uh so then Angelo took over his brother's business and he was operating out of his house a lot so he had a guy who was a bug guy a next cop who comes in with a one and they could see the frequencies and they could see if the house is bugged or not bugged the phone's above they're not bugged so he had this guy come in they knew what was going on defense so what they do when they saw the guy come in they shut all the bugs down except for his phone and and not his daughter's fault so they shut them all down so this guy comes in he checks everything out and he says I got good news for you the house isn't bugged your daughter's phone is not bugged but your phone is booked so Angela said good so now he gets the phone when he's talking with guys he puts it on the side and he's talking well when they walked out the the that guy with the one he they put the switch on the whole house was yeah of course the daughter's phone everything was booked and uh so they quote everybody on tape and Angelo's not only talking about drugs heroin every every [ __ ] day um he's also talking about Paul Castellano how we don't like him we should kill him they didn't have a plan then but he just stupid talk and he's talking about every single boss and every single family the commission the whole thing and they're all caught on this bug if you two never bothered with me again again of the rest of my life I ain't giving them okay now that bug the government gets it was so powerful they go to every single judge they ask for a court order to bug everybody's house cause everything on everybody's on that tape every family that tape was the beginning of the downfall of the mafia because that tape led to the commission case where every single boss on the boss go into the air major captains everybody got pinched on the commit that was the end of the mafia yeah and now Paul that's what created the Wall Paul wanted those tapes I know and I heard you want a tape that he's telling Neil he's talking to Neil's house about I can't give these teams House of people that other friends are on the tapes of it listen the unwritten nobody was supposed to sell drugs but you know everybody was stealing everybody every family he was doing the Gen every I mean I know yeah there was tons of guys I mean I know for sure my father never told that and having and I had arguments with my father because guys used to come to my father's bar and off from kilos like they they do the hair Andy and he used to tell them no I used to tell them why everybody's doing he goes it was blood Money blood money you have a killer you're worried about blood money I used to tell me I'm not selling drugs he goes I'll be the one day making example out of course Johnny Irish remember you know Johnny Irish yeah yeah why'd they kill him because he was selling drugs right they suffered from Florida they killed John he goes what do you want me to wind up like Johnny Irish make an example out of me and he never said whatever he was doing heroin and Angelo and so who knows who was on those tapes I'm sure there was a lot of guys that you know what I want those tips they were all selling junk yeah I mean when I went away un mentioned that maybe Frankie and Frankie wasn't on the tapes Frankie the chico knows it on the tapes I wasn't on the table because you weren't selling junk no no no no no and it's I wasn't knocking them I knew they were doing drugs I wasn't knocking them it's just I didn't want to deal that because I didn't like the element that I had to deal with I didn't want to deal with really low level people buying drugs I said no it's not a business for me I was in a construction and I had a big construction business I had a big Sherlock book so I didn't need that I didn't want it that's the only reason I didn't know but the money was [ __ ] unbelievable so I don't knock them for what they did but there is rooms yeah they Angelo and John broke the rules but what it did it led to such a disaster that it just ripped the whole mob apart yeah that was the beginning again you think John would learn he gets caught again on tapes and that's how we all got pinched me him frankular Casio Tommy Gambino all kinds of guys are pinched again on the on these tapes but getting back to Angela he he he he loves to talk no he couldn't stop he was he he was my father's main source of information because and before my father got pinched in 84 he was going back and forth to Florida and every time he came back to New York he would we would go to Richie's Cafe Richie got his Cafe and he would schedule a question and he would just throw up and tell him everything and like I told you about Tony plate and how he died and he would just tell him everything and even when after Angela got pinched and they shoved him and he was doing John shelved them he would come to Cafe Liberty in a van he have a kid driving him and he'd be in the back of the van and he would call Tony Lee out and Tony would go sit in the back of the van and he was still talking so he really never learned his lesson no he wouldn't stop talking he wouldn't stop talking you know John said something that was cute I always I always remembered it was they said listen Sammy you you you open up the [ __ ] phone book remember the phone books where it's big open up the phone book and pick any number and call them up he said he just to speak to Angelo yeah and they'll ask you yeah I just spoke in this morning you know and I get a lot of questions about his his nickname and people think he got that nickname over them tapes because he said that's not how he got that nickname he got that nickname because of the way he walked remember how he used to walk you used to watch like a duck right and they called him quack quack like the buckles the way he looked because and I told on my on my podcast I said listen everybody keeps telling me that um daddy got this nickname from the tapes he did not he had that nickname when I was a kid 30 40 years before them types even existed they were calling him Angela quack quack that but he was a funny bastard always smoking a cigarette dangerous yeah yeah I mean he really put that together with John what you guys enjoy I think he he did a lot of behind the scenes for John coming to use and talking to his about cliff and Paul if I'm correct I don't know yeah he called me the first time and DB told me he says uh you know we know we knew about the tapes being Frankie everybody and uh we knew the problems he had I mean they were going to get killed there's no two ways about it yeah and you know even when I was a kid he used to crack me up all the time with the way he looked I remember uh I met him at the Copa one day when they were younger they would they came over and and just and my father was goofing on him because he was all dressed up in a suit and he was you know quack quacking so but you know to back up a little bit you know before the tapes when John became the boss I mean every everybody wants me I mean to talk bad about the guy you know um he was always good like I told you he was always good to me part on a personal level because you know I knew him before he became John Gotti I mean I knew him from when I was a kid and the guy always helped me the guy always looked out for me even when in my darkest days but I mean he did do stuff wrong you know I mean like like we talked about um his public you know and I would tell my and I would go visit my father and tell him stuff that was going on in the street because me and Tony Lee would go once a month and visit my own man because he was in he was away at the twin When you was made that move on on Paul my father was away so he missed the whole thing I'm sure if he was home he would have been in right in the mix with this because he didn't had no love for Paul either my father and uh and uh and we would tell him what's going on that he signed on like I I'm out I I'm I'm he sends for Tony Lee to meet him for lunch and we go to this restaurant by Jimmy Brown's Club the the restaurant Tom Tomas hamasos and I'm in the restaurant it's Joe Watts my Tony Lee and John and me and were eating lunch and a couple comes over and they tell Mr Gotti could we have you order Griff and he signs the autograph for them he has their name he signs the autograph totally now he's he's smokes coming out of his ears and he's and and they walk away and dead serious and he looks at us and he goes they lock me the public loves me and it was the worst I'll ever get is a hung jury he told us and he believed that he believed that was the worst he would ever get it's a hung jury so when I went to visit my old man who was an old school guy like we said back from the 50s and we told him that he signed autographs he couldn't believe it he goes is he can he couldn't even have words to yes I had an experience with that in a club in a bar with a man and a woman he didn't sign an autograph but he bought them drinks and this and he told me the same thing to send me the the they love me you know I told him bro they're not supposed to love us they're not even supposed to know we're alive where gangsters this is a secret society with when when we don't exist you know but he just like fell in love with himself in a way that uh I don't know he just had to be I I think he wanted to be an actor more than he wanted to be a gangster he wanted to be both maybe and then let me get back to that thing I mean the the problem with his tapes and everything like that DB got in touch with me and said Sammy Angelo wants to see you in Queens could you stop by and that's how this whole thing started with Castellano I went to Queens I parked my car in the street I saw him on the corner I parked my car I got out I walked over and I said hey it's how you doing shook his hand and he says they sent me uh you know what's going on I said yeah of course I know what's going on I said how's things going with you he said good but I need your help we need you me and John so I said uh for what what way do you need my help he says uh we're going to take Paul out I said you're going to take Paul out the boss of bosses he's the boss of bosses right now yeah you're gonna take him he says yeah and I need your help so I said you and John yeah I said then when it's John I mean he sent you where is he if he needs help you know you're you're talking like you're asking for a favor it's like telling me uh Sammy do me a favor could you pick up a container of milk on your way home and drop it by me that's a favor I mean Children of the Boston boys that's not a [ __ ] favor this is a you're talking about a major major thing I said listen angel I'm not going to say yes and I'm not going to say no as soon as I leave I'm not going to tell nobody but I'm going straight to Franklin Chico's house I'll talk with him he says that's fine but he's going to be with us too okay and I left and I went to Franklin Chico's house and I had a massive discussion with him I told him what happened with Angelo he says I know and he says and uh they're finished John and all of them they're all going to be killed he said but um I think Paul did a lot of [ __ ] up things and maybe it's time to change the regime by changing the regime maybe we saved them at the same time it made sense to me to an appoint I had my own God says would pull myself so I thought about it and I said okay but you become the boss pointed to Frank he said no I can't be he said John's got an ego like the Empire State Building he said I could be his on the boss he can't be mine we'll have problems from day one here's what I'm going to tell you we can make him the boss he stops acting the fool acts like a boss does the right thing will be the power behind the throne for him and uh I'll become his I'm the boss you'll immediately become a Captain I was enacting and you'll be the Godzilla family well he says in Sammy remember what he did to you and your family I said I don't want this to be about revenge for me it's not about that I know how I feel with him but I don't want this to be about revenge I thought about it and thought about it I loved Frankie I didn't want John is the boss I'm going to be honest yeah I put my hand out to Frank I shook his hand we'll do it he sent fangelo and he told Angelo I want to have an appointment me and Sammy were John not you Angelo I don't want you there and tell them on on Bay Parkway near the park he'll know where it is me and Samuel meet him sure enough John showed up following day and uh Frankie I think you know Frankie and how how rough he talked and how it was yeah and he told John John met with Sammy nist for a favor you you weren't at the movie at the meeting what kind of [ __ ] courtesy is that you can ask him to go into a war it's not a war kill people and do you a tremendous [ __ ] favor and you don't come to the [ __ ] meeting face to face and ask him you send Angela who the [ __ ] are you don't what do you say John John that's I listen I had to do something I had he was talking but uh he said listen we'll do this me and sin Sammy's crew my crew we'll back you will make you the boss I'll be the underboss Samuel will immediately be a captain and eventually take over and become the gonzier fan John said yes of course we shook hands and we left and we constantly communicated about this hit I really wasn't too happy about it because I didn't get caught on tapes I was in Daily drugs Frankie didn't get caught on tapes he wasn't dealing drugs this was all your problem and now you can't win you got the whole Commission because of me against you the Westies would be against you Italy he was connected in Italy all over the [ __ ] place is going to be against you when they know what you did everybody's going to be against you and if you don't have Frankie and you don't have me and you don't have a good part of the Gambino family you're gonna have all of that against you there's no way you know that yeah no way you can win so we started recruiting DB was already on board he wasn't a tough guy great guy I loved him um he would become a captain and money he had a lot of money a lot of money power and connections and business and all kinds unions and all kinds of things so he was going to be part of us we got Joe Gallo who was the gonzier who caved in immediately immediately yeah he was the betrayer yeah and he was gonna not be part of it at all until the murder was done then he would come forward and be on our side we accepted that because we had information and we had him out of the way we wanted somebody to satisfy the old-timers we reached Joe Piney he was on outside so there was people on outside we set feelers out little at a time um Frankie talked to people with the Colombo family John talked with uh people with but I know family um and we got mixed Vibes very but the conversation wasn't straight out it was we were beating around the bush when we even talked it started to become we couldn't find a place we were picking a team of Shooters and this and that and the other thing um we couldn't get a spot I think Joe Watts had said we could walk into the house me and we did that all the time and I had said I'm definitely not going to a guy's house and killing them in front of his wife and then I'm not doing that that's how I'm out and and Frankie disagreed with it too that was a so we went crazy trying to figure out where when and how Frankie to Chico in October I was at my niece's potty or some [ __ ] like that I was about to go to he said Sammy I'm starting to get a little nervous we're talking to too many [ __ ] people here's what I want to do Joe Watts had a little mansion in Staten Island he had Maids quarters in the basement we're gonna get rid of the maid me and you are going to go and Duck and live in the in the maids quarters he lives in the house he'll be there we're going to take Frankie butts with us and uh you tell you guys that they're not my guys didn't know it all one or two did um he said if somebody comes looking for you on a Tuesday at eight o'clock at night somewhere let them let you know ask what it's about they don't tell them all right there's an appointment for Sammy eight o'clock at so and so okay we'll let him know he's not around if I get that same [ __ ] appointment on a Tuesday night at eight o'clock they know and we're about to get hit the war is on and we come out swinging neither one of us go to those meetings I went to my niece's party oh we were in there for a while I got my wife and I took her on the site I said Deb come here I want to talk to you what I'm Gonna Leave I got some way to go uh I'm not gonna come home what do you mean when are you gonna come home it says I'm not gonna come home I may come home in a week a month a year I may never come home don't ask no questions somebody will be in touch with you people around me they'll be in touch with you hey Eddie my brother-in-law people who talk to you don't believe anything you read in the papers or you hear you cried I hugged I kissed her and I left and I hooked up with uh frankly Chico we went and lived in a basement Joe wants his basement time went on and on and on more planning we got word or first of all let me get it to this Neil was sick it was titled stomach cancer he had cancer and he was dying John and Frankie Chico went to him for his blessings he said no no I know the whole story yeah he told John and Angelo at one meeting I'm not sure if Frankie was there he said you guys [ __ ] up and did everything everything under the sun wrong and you want to kill him and you want me to give you permission the answer is no that's not goza Nostra I will represent you I'm not sure if you'll live or die but I'll represent you I'll Fight for Your Life or run yeah either thing um so that's the answer they got so when we would talk would we kill Neil no no one wanted to kill them we all loved them yeah and he's dying to cancer and he's talking real goes in Austria yeah well that's weird but he loves you or not he told you no and uh so could we kill Paul and not him he's the underworth it got really hairy and [ __ ] up and we kept waiting um we started all kinds of plots and plans and everything we could possibly imagine doing everybody loved them and we didn't want to is to jeopardize them or kill them or anything like that so it became harder and harder to make the plans and do whatever and then appointment was made Frankie the chico was notified as crew and an appointment was made in Sparks Steakhouse with uh and Frankie was invited to the supporter disappointment so Paul would be there with Tommy belotti Jimmy Brown would be there Frankie Chico would be there Danny Marino would be there um a few other people were going to be there at this meeting we talked about it in that house and uh I thought about it and it would be on uh December 16th right before Christmas now Manhattan is always packed but what would happen is that people would come out of work instead of going home they would wait for their families and meet go watch the lights the tree light up so with even more crowded it would be police on every corner the car you couldn't park a car so I turned around and I said listen Sparks is where we do it John said Sammy you had any [ __ ] mindless cops on every [ __ ] Corner there'll be thousands tens of thousands of people I said I know that's exactly why we're gonna do it there is going to be confusion there's cops on the corner we know where the place is it Sparks we know the location we know what time he wants to meet number three you can't park so they'll pull up in front of Sparks get out there's a guy who takes the cause and Parks them there's no place to park so they'll park right there so we know where he's going to park we know what time and we know the restaurant we know the block we know the whole thing John said that's crazy Frankie Chico says it makes sense to me Sammy's been in two Mafia wars already with the Colombo's Philadelphia and now this one let him plan the [ __ ] thing if you don't like this plan then me and him are out and you take over John completely backed up on me all right come on let's please you know Frankie turned to me said what do you want me to do where would you want me to be be in the place waiting with them for the meeting have a gun Frankie if they get up if they hit a shooting if anything happens if they get up our friends made guys look at them and tell them [ __ ] the [ __ ] down foreign

Channel: Salvatore "Sammy The Bull" Gravano

Views: 377,467

Keywords: sammy the bull, salvatore gravano, godfather, mafia, mob boss, underboss, mafioso, john gotti, carlo gambino, lucky luciano, paul castellano, al capone, gambino, bonanno, colombo, crime, true crime, mob, goodfellas, the irishman, roy demeo, masculinity, gangster, don, hitman, mobstory, cosanostra, gotti, five families, michael franzese, johnny keyes, johnny keys, strategy, jordan peterson, made men

Id: etEp8cpEkhM

Length: 56min 0sec (3360 seconds)

Published: Wed Sep 06 2023