Inside the Mind of a Gerry Papa | Sammy "The Bull" Gravano

so Papa became a heavyweight drug dealer and a notorious killer almost on the level of Roy de Mayo here's a difference with them roid the Mayo became a serial killer Roy DeMayo killed innocent people and just when we talked one time in a restaurant about a business deal that could have been in the Millions he was out of the conversation and looking at a bunch of old people and told me if I had two nine millimeters I Could Kill Them All he had what I feel as like this drum in his head this music this beat he was no longer with us it was fantasizing about killing old people that's a serial killer they're dangerous no no question about it Jerry pepper was just as dangerous but he was more he was a good-looking guy and he was more cunning he was smarter he would talk to you he would know how to con you he was more into it that way but they were the same they were both serial killings but they had a different makeup about them and this is what got me started talking about it because Anna was a psychologist she's going on to get a master's degree so this conversation we had it on the side ourselves just talking and shooting the [ __ ] I ain't talking about serial killers and everything else and I was talking about the life she asked me some questions and it got me thinking back and all of this stuff came up and I said you know let's make it put it on tape I really never talked about some of it I did some of it I ate and I'm jumping around and I gotta you know you gotta remember I'm talking when I was 13 14 15 as ramp is I was with the rampers until I was 19 and I got drafted in 1964 in 1966 I came out I was 21 years old I went right back to the Rampage the only thing is that the ramp is a lot of everyone's with different Mafia Crews it was no longer us against the world it was everybody belonged to somebody my friend Tommy Spiro another guy who was part of the Rampage introduced me to his car uh Uncle shorty Spiro and that's how I got into the Colombo family as an associate that's where I did my first hit so there was no more Clubhouse anybody ever smacking me in the face or spitting in my [ __ ] face or giving me [ __ ] beatings to toughen me up you smacked me in the face and spit in my [ __ ] face I'd blow your [ __ ] head right off your shoulders we were tough at this point in our lives even the senior and Junior rampers who were still around wouldn't [ __ ] with us they had total [ __ ] respect for us I think a little fear too I remember this guy klinko told me one day he said Sammy I don't know if those beatings toughened you up or and and pepper and only you guys but boy oh boy you [ __ ] guys uh use it now someday I believe you guys will be [ __ ] Legends you outgrew this rampant thing you're just in a whole nother [ __ ] world and uh he was a good guy I listened to him some of them got killed in in these years some of them some of them survived some of them went to prison it's the same with some of us I mentioned the guy named spaghetti he got killed Jimmy Emma got killed I could go on and on and on me and Joe Vitale he was in a car doing a robbery we both was shot up I mean there isn't a person in that group Jerry Pappa was obviously killed at one point and I'll tell you that story in a second he was such a [ __ ] Mad Hatter that he was doing [ __ ] ugly [ __ ] he was dressing in a full-length mink coat big diamond ring chains on his neck he looked like a pimp not like a mafioso real good looking guy women love them guys feed him one day he went down to see Chen was the boss of the Genovese family and he went down dressed like that I heard that chin had said we made this guy what the [ __ ] kind of guy is he he's a major drug dealer drugs is nothing something chin wants anybody to get involved in and then he's walking around looking like that God knows how much that mint cold caused him black mink and was real women would kill you for that coat but he he's not the right person walking around with that um chin ordered that he went to a bar in Benson Heights Brooklyn a street boss on the chin was there and sent for Jerry Papa Jerry pepper got his crew dangerous dangerous guys and told them if I'm going to go in to buy and meet them if I'm not out in 15 minutes come in and kill everybody it's insanity that I think leaked back to Chin he met with Frankie to Chico one time and Frankie said maybe you and Sammy is about friends of ours meaning made guys you could you know talk and this and that he said I owe Sammy something frankly Chico was really close to me you guys know that Frankie told Mel you're alone oh you don't own him [ __ ] nothing bad ever happened to him and they left he had told Frankie if you ever need to have a problem with a maid guy and you know we don't have to go to any protocol let me know we'll kill them he's wanting to kill guys off the Record made guys which is insanity so Frankie said be careful for this guy's [ __ ] out of his mind again almost like the mail a little smarter a little more cunning but no not too much different they were both kill machines anyway he went to a meeting on 64th Street and 14th Avenue in a restaurant right there that's where the ramp is were there right across the street from that restaurant was that empty lot it wasn't an empty lot no more they built a store or something over there and a couple of apartments they got the people Two Italian people who owned the restaurant they weren't Street people they legitimate people but they knew what time it was they took them in the back they said we're going to tie yours up you say that some guys came in robbed you and they tied you up you don't know who they are they understood not that big criminals but they were afraid and they understood what was going to happen somebody was there with a sort of shotgun under the table sitting at a table I would believe that it's one of Chin's guys from out of town in new Jerry pepper Jerry Papp was supposed to meet him there he came to the meeting and uh he sat at the table and the guy said there's cops here bro did you bring cops with you Jerry said no no he went to turn to look out the guy pulled out the shotgun hit him in the back of the hell with it 12 gauge double O Buck Magnum right in the back of the head blew his [ __ ] head facing everything right off brains all over the wall everything I missed the cops knew about this ongoing beef between me and Jerry pepper and the cops came to me hey Sammy you know about your friend oh who's my friend Jerry pap no I don't know what about him he's dead go for him what do you want me to do you sure you ain't involved hey go [ __ ] yourself bro no I'm not involved well look at this Boo and he shows me a picture of you can't even make out the face brain's on the wall and he said that's Jerry Papp really why don't you go home and show that to your wife and your kids your [ __ ] piece of [ __ ] now I'm going to tell you something get the picture down out of my [ __ ] face and get the [ __ ] out of here that could be your [ __ ] head and your [ __ ] face you think that's a [ __ ] joke you're showing a guy like that get the [ __ ] out of here and he left they're trying to push my buttons thinking they don't know who's involved or whatever the [ __ ] it is and it was an ugly way to do it and the Ugly way to question you want to get a reaction to be showing me a [ __ ] ugly picture like that of somebody anybody even though I didn't like I originally like them that's enough if I don't like it that's my business what I do is my business don't show me that [ __ ] so and that was the end of Jerry pepper his son grew up worse than him he killed the whole [ __ ] bunch of people and he became a [ __ ] serial killer too Tommy day a cop that I know one day came to me said me and you were on a list together a list together I said what are you talking about what kind of list he said we went and go pitch Pappy's son I think it was in a church he went for his gun they wrestled him down to the ground when they took his wallet they went through it obviously and there was a note a hit list Tommy day was on The Hit List and so was I along with four or five other names I didn't know who they were they didn't tell me so I said this kid was going to [ __ ] kill me yeah yeah well probably his father was taken down you took over I didn't take over they voted him out and they voted me in I didn't take over nothing there wasn't a takeover move Tommy and uh musical guy I know him till today he's a cop I didn't know him well then but it was a good cop he did his job he was in a dirty cop he did his job but he didn't lie and try to be cunning and do weird [ __ ] like that guy's showing a picture he never did [ __ ] like that and I know I'm good now but and uh so that's a little bit of the story about growing up as a rampa some of the ramp is like Jehovah Italy I know some of their sons daughters and people um and I'm still in touch with some of them not all of them but some of them um one or two I I got pictures there was a girl named Marilyn I'm not going to say her last name she's still alive and she was an Irish broad so we called her Maryland to Mick it's a slur but that's the way it was back then Jimmy it was a Puerto Rican guy I was calling jiminy's big but he loved that he used to call himself that it wasn't racial back then it made those words may sound a little racial now but he was a Puerto Rican guy he was loved he was with us and Jimmy went on with me and my crew even after I became made and I had a crew he he was still with me so there was love but we had different you know nicknames Great Balls those names and all these names were used in uh so but I you know I'm in touch not enough that I'm in touch with them every day but I know some of them um Johnny Holmes his daughter gets in touch with me a little bit every now and then a lot a lot of them so that was how I went from the Rampage and what the ramp is what nobody ever knew I don't think I mean some people if they knew back then that we were the Black Panthers for a small amount of time and then we became the ramp of midgets there was senior Junior and midgets we were the midgets we grew at it at I mean I didn't grow too much taller but uh we grew out of that label the ramp of midgets we were the Rampage period and we you know a bunch of times we told the rampa seniors and the Juniors stop with those [ __ ] titles seniors juniors we're all rampers if you don't want to be a [ __ ] ramper then don't say nothing but don't use the [ __ ] title senior Junior you're not our senior you're not our Junior we're not a [ __ ] anymore we're ramp is we're either all ramp is or you guys are our enemy they immediately got rid of the labels of senior and Junior we were all rampers no matter what age you were no matter who you are even our girls there's no there was no title for them as you know ramparettes or anything like that but they were ours we always loved them respected them treated them well didn't let anybody [ __ ] with them but they weren't part of the gang like some gangs they have women who are gang member they weren't like that they didn't have to do anything they were just our girls we just loved them respected them vice versa it was like that they didn't have no membership they didn't have to do anything criminal or be there just waiting for us and with some bandages and [ __ ] in the schoolyard when we come back if we had beat up just to take care of us a little bit and uh so that's what the ramp is what and that's how I grew up and uh and then I went into the mafia and most of you guys know the stories in the mafia and now you know what happened with Jerry Papa and uh how he got that label I got a lot of questions how do you get that name Peppa bear oh papa bear that was cool they called them Peppa Pig and he had a bear tattoo on his forearm he went and go get that once he got he liked the label and he put the Bear right on his forearm I'm not sure if it was over here or over here but he had a bear on his um I mean it was great growing up I don't know what happened to me it became kill crazy and that happened a little later on it wasn't like that as a kid you know I had trouble with my father's store with some Union guys once and I thought they would come back and try and hurt my father and I went to Tim and I told him I'm gonna get a couple guys and we're I'm going to give these guys a good workout they said they're going to come and beat up my father I'm going to send them to the hospital and that's the first time he turned around he picked up his shirt he took out a gun he says here [ __ ] them killed him and uh give me a call we'll come and get the bodies now I wasn't in the combo family yet I never killed anybody yet I took the gun I seriously considered if they came in my father's shop it was a dress Factory and raised their hands to my father I was going to shoot but I never did it before I was a little nervous and then my father took the gun away I got it back I gave it back to Jerry pepper but was the first time that I think we were starting to use guns there was another time one other time there was guys from downtown Brooklyn supposedly with the Gallows a couple of guys they were in our neighborhood before the Gallow worn all that [ __ ] and uh they were in the bar a bunch of them with guns not too many couple two three and we were in the bar and we had guns something happened our glasses break and a girl scream fighting then I had a shot we all pulled out we shot back and forth it was a miracle that it's not that nobody got hit one of the gallons got hit 11 times there was a guy in the place who got hit he got wounded he didn't die he just got hit with a bullet he was an innocent bartender he was by the bar none of us got hit the guy stared it out of the place with the 11 shots and fell on the street um I don't know if he died or lived but the guys in the neighborhood Bensonhurst the main guys told these guys you came into the [ __ ] neighborhood you don't belong yet you ain't doing nothing to these kids they're good kids we were kids at that time when it happened so there was so many [ __ ] incidents you know as I talk I think back now and I'm thinking of so many different things that happened and uh concerned about um try to Copper did he ever give you advice on how to deal with them no it was almost in a different time already and uh no that title didn't know him didn't care about him one way or another do you think the mafia is almost like scouting you guys oh yeah I listened to the mafia always does that you know if you're gonna if you're gonna take some money under your wing in the mouth here you're not going to take some wimpy guy or some guy is going to college they don't belong in their life if you're going to take a kid who's been in the street he's a little thuggerish he's been in trouble he's been you know back in those days when you got in trouble with the cops like I robbed the lumber yard as a kid I got caught one or two guys got away they wanted to know who you guys were I wouldn't tell him it wasn't like today they beat the [ __ ] out of you I got such a beating because I refused over and over again when my mother and father came to the police station to pick me up my mother saw me out She fainted that's how bad I was [ __ ] up so and and and the street guys know that they know how you conduct yourself you saw it in the movie Good Fellas you know the kid he got paid she didn't talk and they were all hugging her man it's like it's similar to that it's that's actual true story they know you they know who your mother is they know who your father is they know who your sister or your brother is your sister gets married they know who our husband is they do a lot of research because if they like a kid and they have intentions for the kid or whatever and they don't recruit him to take them in if he's gonna be that then their arms are wide open if he's going to be in our life I would love him to be with me it's just a common sense thing it's not a grooming like some guys say they're they're grooming you they're not grooming [ __ ] if you're a bad kid they'll take you under their wing they're trying to school you stay away from this be respectful you don't have to do this Taro did the same thing to me they grew Me grew me not to be a [ __ ] animal he grew me not to be a rampa he grew me to be a mafioso and understand respect and the neighborhood so you'll hear a lot of stories that they groomed people they really don't you don't want to take a kid who's going to go to college go ahead good luck go to college go be a doctor lawyer be or whatever they're not going to say well I'm going to take him and groom them to take them out they don't if you're just a bad that was a bad dude on my life because of the dyslexic I had trouble in schools so I had trouble all the time and they see that they know it they get to know who you are you're in trouble a hundred thousand in trouble that's oh that's Sam here again what happened it was in a bar with some broads and some guys he wound up in a fight they were breaking chairs over his head or this you know so they know who you are they're not taking a legitimate guy and grooming them they don't groom people if you're a bad dude they'll take you under their wing somebody will sometimes more people are looking for you I was asked many many times to become an associate I never went in it was us against the world I never went into the mountain shorty Spiro was different when I met him he said you're a real tough kid you're gonna hit the wrong guy one day and you're gonna get killed for it because you're not with anybody you're not with a family I heard family I heard those words and then he said I'll never double crochet so I'll never lie to you if I send you to do something meaning this and I know what he was talking about I've done it and I may come with you when you do it I'll never use you you'll be part of our family but I will teach you how to conduct yourself and I shook his hand that was music to my ear was it grooming me to take me and and go steal and go kill and don't go no he didn't do that he took what I already was and put it under his wing to polish me a little bit groom me a little bit it's like getting a pit bull and then teach you don't want this pit bull to go out biting everybody he sees he wanted to be a good dog he's capable of biting you but you don't want inviting people the kids and everybody you want them to be a good dog listen learn if you have to attack somebody break it in the house you want that pit bull to attack it's the same thing but they're not going to go get a [ __ ] poodle and treat him the same way they'll get a pool and they'll give it to their wife here your life and still can't take it that and that's what I was and that's what every gangster is he's a bit of a pit bull but he needs polishing he needs grooming but they're not going to take a poodle and try to turn him into a pit bull no they don't do that so you don't hear these stories on some of these channels I hear it that they groom me they took they ruined my life [ __ ] you [ __ ] full of [ __ ] I'll guarantee you he was in trouble all his [ __ ] life that's why he's around them if you're a wimp you're never going to get around they don't want you around them they don't need you and I don't say a wimp in a bad way I mean you know my son could have been Mega he's a tough kid but he's not a killer and and and he's a good kid he's a good artist kid he could fight I wouldn't take him into life what would I do take them into life and teach them what to kill or be killed I I wouldn't want him until I want him just the way he is he's not a wimp but he's not a [ __ ] killer I like that and I'm not going to ever want him to be a killer now if he was like me growing up I would want to take like Frankie to Chico's father said listen my son is just a tough streaking so when I took him in and made him it was to control him to slow him the [ __ ] down if not he's just going to be of just a warrior who just runs around the street and sooner the lady's going to go to jail and die so they try to bring you in to protect you not to groom you to go out and steal for them no I mean maybe it is a guy or two who does that I don't know but most of the people I know that's not the way it's done when you were talking about um Roy DeMayo and how he was talking about killing that whole table of the elderly people you said like he was almost fantasizing about it how he it sounded like he dissociated from reality gone yeah here's how I felt it I mean we're talking about getting stolen cars putting her mom's ships going to uh Kuwait I believe it was right Kuwait and making hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars but he's in this conversation that's what it's about but he's looking at these old people and then when I talked to him he says no no Sammy uh I'm thinking if I had time two nine millimeters I could kill all these people but I could feel the vibration he's not in this conversation talking about millions of dollars possibly he's fantasizing about killing a bunch of old people it's like drums in his head driving him [ __ ] crazy he's obsessed with that murder he's obsessed with killing those people who did nothing not with the Millions not what he's supposed to be obsessed with which is not normal it's a different personality he you meet we didn't exist no more at this table his mind and his head and those drums beating in his [ __ ] head were there you were gone he didn't care about you no more I told you you can get a beautiful woman like you great body and you're making an offer of doing something and you don't exist to him that exists to him those old people millions of dollars a beautiful woman no matter what it is obsessed his mind is not functioning anymore it's only functioning to kill he's what yeah oh absolutely listen when he got them into that bar that he had that club he would shoot them in the head he would cut them from their balls up to their neck open them up hang them upside down in the shower to drain them and continue playing cards and eating so that when they cut him up to get rid of him there's no blood or splattering all around I mean this is out of a science fiction movie or some [ __ ] thing it's weird it's a serial killer you're going it's a whole different brand you would understand that as a psychologist is what I was saying it's it's not dealing with reality anymore so when you see a movie about a serial killer or something you're looking at him and you think you know he's doing this so what does he think of his talk is that normal no more he's in his Zone he's in another world I saw a bunch of serial killer movies is that the guy is listening to music there was a girl in a tunnel what's that movie Silence of the Lambs the girl is in the thing and she's screaming for help and he's up there his chest is open I don't have a shirt on he's got earrings he's got lipstick on he puts their skin on his face and you hear that music and he's dancing and he's [ __ ] way out there bro and she's screaming and he's looking at her and he's gone he she could scream all she wants he's on another planet somewhere mentally and it's a weird [ __ ] thing now it's a weird thing to see in the movies I'm sure it's a weird thing talking about it in your classes which is your professors and the students and everything but to deal with it in real life I've seen it what writing them out I've seen it with Jerry Papa but they're two different kinds of serial killers I think they want an equal basis as far as being dangerous but I think Peppa is more dangerous because he's more cunning he's good looking he'll calm the [ __ ] out of you it was a tongue he was really good looking I'm stressing how good-looking he was he was and he had that Con in him so I mean he's coming at you with a whole game he's going to suck you right in Roy De Mayo's in Gaga land sure if he catches your short he's going to kill you one two three you're gone but he's not going to con you in that easy I don't think you could sit and have a normal conversation with him you could sit and have a normal conversation with Jerry pepper and that to me is more dangerous he can suck you right in take you away at once and do whatever he wants I don't think you could have a normal conversation with the mail we would talk trying to have a normal conversation about robbing cars sending them to Kuwait and making serious money and he's not even in it he don't hear us he's not there I said is the conversation annoying you know so you must hear this a lot you know no no don't send me no but look at these people he would but he took the conversation and told me look at them if I had to in two millimeters I Could Kill Them All before they even get up I was stunned I'm a hit guy I see you don't Stun Me too easy I was stunned and then he I said yeah most of them would probably die of a heart attack they're 60 70 years old 80 years old and yeah most of them are die on a heart attack and just literally licking his lips looking at them he's hungry he wants them he can't in this restaurant it's a Greek restaurant with surrounded but 100 a couple hundred people can't do anything but he's not part of the conversation it's a heavy duty Mafia conversation he's in that conversation his mind is there his lust his thought is there it's it's a it's it's a weird feeling when I when I walked out I was walking I was with Louis molito and his captain you know when I was walking out with Louie I said did you hear what me and then we're talking about bro he said about killing people yeah did you hear that yeah something about killing the old people yeah yeah it's [ __ ] guy lost his mind Louie we got to be careful for this guy he was fantasizing about killing them and I try to bring him back into the conversation that maybe this conversation is blowing him he was literally licking his lips when he was talking about killing them I could feel them bro we got to be careful with this guy he's a serial killer later on the whole Mafia found out he was a serial killer and that's why we killed him not when I didn't have any part in it but that's why he got killed yeah I believe it did absolutely absolutely absolutely they have a normal [ __ ] life we were having a normal conversation if the if the feds were listening to this conversation we'll you know we were talking about stealing cars and bringing them to Kuwait it was a very normal illegitimate conversation but it was a very normal conversation up until that point but Jerry Papa could he he I don't think he was it was in a different Zone he would be able to talk and talk and smile and whatever and have a different conversation in the back of his mind I'll kill this [ __ ] as soon as I could con him into a place where I can get him yes yes exactly and this other guy is more like that other guy the movie We just watched I didn't like it Dominic yeah I didn't I didn't like it it was just [ __ ] weird too [ __ ] weird so um yeah so I listen this is a great tape I think I think the guys and people like it if you like it press like subscribe you'll hear more of these conversations I enjoyed this conversation because and it brought back while talking when uh she's a psychologist and she's asking me questions that brought back thoughts and thinking and this conversation about serial killers a lot of times it's hard for me to sit down alone and have this kind of a conversation I don't I don't think that way it's what she's asking me she's drawing things out of me and and it's forcing me to think this way not forcing me but uh you know I it's she's making me think that way I'm answering a question I'm trying to think you know what's going through is that it's all I can think of is music pounding because of that thing that that guy dancing around with the girl in the hole and I I hear these things the Son of Sam I grew up in the neighborhood where the Son of Sam went around he was a serial killer killing people a dog was talking to him and he was in his Zone when he went he saw you parked in a car with a girl making love and I love his Lane and he'd come by and shoot you and the girl what the [ __ ] well you don't even know them it's it's the dog is talking to him something he's talking to him he's not there anymore I'm not making excuses for them and they should never get up not that they should get uh oh he's normal now [ __ ] being normal now bro when you're in that zone what they did with Roy was proper kill him he doesn't belong to be on the planet do what he did we don't condone it we don't do it we eliminate it and that's what we did with him and that's what they did with Jerry Pappa and uh that's what they should do in in life take a guy to trial he loses the trial put them put them away kill get rid of him don't let them sit in 20 years that taxpayers are paying for him and uh we're gonna make him say it someday now [ __ ] that is gone let him go adios [ __ ] take care that's it over so I hope you guys like this I enjoy it I enjoy talking about it a little bit but uh thank you for watching Fireside adios [ __ ]

Channel: Salvatore "Sammy The Bull" Gravano

Views: 502,593

Keywords: sammy the bull, salvatore gravano, godfather, mafia, mob boss, underboss, mafioso, john gotti, carlo gambino, lucky luciano, paul castellano, al capone, gambino, bonanno, colombo, crime, true crime, mob, goodfellas, the irishman, roy demeo, masculinity, gangster, don, hitman, mobstory, cosanostra, gotti, five families, michael franzese, johnny keyes, johnny keys, strategy, jordan peterson, made men

Id: La1lJfL3xMA

Length: 38min 37sec (2317 seconds)

Published: Sat Apr 29 2023