Southwest and FedEx Near Crash in Austin

but it's working 32 everywhere I just served you have our apologies we appreciate your professionalism it's happened on more than one occasion that an air traffic controller has done me a favor to keep me out of trouble but that transmission is what it sounds like when a pilot does something to keep a controller out of trouble however that exact same pilot also did something to create a confusion even though there was good intentions behind it here's the full audio positive effects 1432 heavy passing 5.4 for the cat 3 eyeless one eight left FedEx 1432 heavy Austin tower one eight left rvr touchdown 1400 midpoint 600 rolled out one thousand eight hundred one eight left click so the land 18 left at X 1432 hour Southwest 708 we're short of when I left and we're ready Southwest 708 off the tower runaway one eight left rvi 1200 midpoints 600 roll that 1 600. exciting one Sub-Zero run away when he left clip to take off traffic three mile final is a heavy 767. now all this is happening in Austin which is an airport I'm very familiar with I used to fly there all the time actually and a lot of times when I'd go in there there'd be a lot of low fog that would hang at that airport especially early in the mornings so you have this low level fog and you'd be clear up above and there'd be just a couple hundred feet where the visibility was terrible so you'd see it when you were coming into lamb you'd have to shoot a whole regular approach but it wouldn't be like where you're going through a lot of clouds it'd be clear clear clouds fog and then you'd come out 200 feet above the ground and then land it's it's something that's kind of unique to certain places in the world Texas being one of those places and when I say a cat 3 Landing I'm talking about a category three Landing not the cat that makes the meow which some Pilots love to do on different radio frequencies in the U.S now this is a typical approach plate in Austin and you see here on the left it says rvr18 rvr means Runway visual range and they basically had these machines along the sides of runways in certain airports not every airport has it but it's it gauges just how far the visibility is in a place like this where the fog or clouds might be often at that airport so on this approach plate here you see where it says rvr18 what that means is 1800 feet or right below it you see one half mile and I know that 1800 feet is not the same as a half a mile but these rvrs are able to get more precise so it's either rvr of 1800 or visibility of a half a mile so it can give you both maybe the rvr is not working at the airport at that particular time so they need to have a backup in that case it's a half a mile they could make it less but this is just the way it works out when these approach blades come out it'll say rvr something and more visual one half mile it'll give both now you'll see this one here it says cat 3 ILS and below it says rvr six now this I'm getting into a lot of the legality stuff about being a pilot that you probably don't ever care about unless you plan on being a pilot but this is the legality stuff that as a pilot it's not the fun stuff flying the plane it's the legality stuff so this rvr 6 means when you have the runway visual range of 600 feet you are able to land there if your plane has the capability to do that type of Landing not every plane has this capability but it will say basically 600 feet is the range that you're able to land if you're able to do a cat 3 Landing now with the cat 3 Landing you as a pilot are not manually controlling the plane it's doing an auto land so your plan needs to have the capabilities to fly a normal approach on an autopilot do the flare roll out track the center line and stop and do all those things by themselves and the pilots in this case are just monitoring everything to make sure it is doing what it's supposed to be doing but it the pilots are not actually flying the plane in this case it's called an auto land and that's why you hear this pilot check in saying this awesome 1432 heavy passing 5.4 for that cat 3 eyeless one eight left so these piles are roughly five miles out from the runway they're checking in they're letting the controller know where they're at even though the controller has a sensor to know where they're at but he's checking in with that letting them know the approach that they're doing and basically on the approach plate if you were to look at it they're right here after that pilot checks in the controller calls to the pilots and lets them know okay this is the current rvr for all three sections of the runway some runways will have four sections some will have three some might have a situation where one's not working and two were only working and depending on different airlines and different rules because we all don't follow the exact same rules you may be able to land there or you may need to have all three in order to land it's all different in different airlines so in this case all three are working so it doesn't really matter but the controller calls back and says these are the three different sections this is the rvr so that way the pilots know they are able to legally shoot the approach and try to land there and that's why the controller says it right here FedEx 1432 heavy Austin tower one eight left rvr touchdown one thousand four hundred midpoint 600 rolled out one thousand eight hundred one eight left clither there as the FedEx Pilots hear that they then know okay great we're able to legally shoot this approach and land there so from their standpoint everything is good they have the visibility that they need I'm guessing at this point they're probably fully configured and ready to land because on these types of Landings you want to have everything done and out of the way because it's now it's time to really focus both of you are inside looking at all the instruments both Pilots nobody's looking outside everybody's inside looking to verify the plane is doing everything that it's supposed to be doing and if at any point there's an error message or any issue that shows up boom the plane goes back up does it go around him tries it again however in this case you hear these Southwest Pilots they're holding short of this exact same Runway and they check in right here we're sort of right left already now Southwest has a reputation for moving fast and that's not saying that they're moving in an unsafe way but they do a lot of flights these Pilots will do three four flights a day whereas I might do one flight every two days or three days so they're doing a lot of flights and that means they're going to be moving faster when a 747 gets out on the runway we're moving slow everything's going really slow we we make it go slow so that way we don't miss everything whereas Southwest has a reputation for taxing fast and moving quickly and like I said it's not unsafe but they do things very quickly so when they check in and they're holding short of that Runway there might be a situation where the controller is going to hear its Southwest and let them go thinking okay these guys are going to get out very quickly because they have the reputation of doing that whereas let's say I'm holding short of Runway one eight left I'm not saying that I'm less competent of a pilot than a Southwest pilot but they know that things are going to be moving a little bit slower when the 747 is going to take the runway or a corporate aircraft or an aircraft they're unfamiliar with but Southwest having the reputation of going fast they're holding short the controller thinks okay you guys are good to go the plane is this far out from where they're going to be landing which basically lets the pilots know well we can't dilly dally on the runway we need to get out and get going okay 170 . this is that Pilots have a visibility requirement for takeoff just like we have one for landing we also have the same thing for takeoff it's a different visibility requirement but we have to have a certain amount of visibility in order to safely take off now the controller reads back what the visibility is the pilots are going to check that and Visually look outside to make sure that they have the visibility they need and they're going to be moving slower than they normally would because at the end of the day it's better to be safe and do everything right then go quickly and then have a mistake so that's where it starts to go bad this right here is an example of a chart that we would use when we're taking off you can see at this airport it can go as low as 500 rvr and that doesn't mean that you as a pilot can take off at 500 rvr what it means is that that airport has A capability for you as a pilot to take off on a 500 rvr your airline is going to give you a different number so your airline might say the lowest that you're ever allowed to take off as is 600. so your airline might say 600 and the airport has the capability of doing 500 so it means you're restricted to 600 however on the other side of the airport it's a different requirement you see over here on 1 8 right the lowest that you can take off is 1 000 rvr which means if your lowest requirement you could take off is 600 at your airline but that Runway only allows you to do one thousand you're restricted to one thousand this is a lot of the legal part that you as a passenger will never ever see but that's what's going on we're checking all this stuff before we even leave the gate this isn't happening while they're getting out onto the runway we've already looked at it hey we get to sign this Runway what's the visibility requirement what's our visibility limitation and we're looking at okay well what do we need it to be and in some cases you'll be writing it down on that pad of paper that you see me write down that what I'm taxing or before we go out and I go flying I would write a note on there okay we need 600 we need 500 or whatever it is that's my limitation for that Runway and whatever is going to be my limitation for my Airline I'm going to write that number down and I'm going to have that there so when the controller reads me rvr this this and this I know okay cool we're good to legally take off because if he were to read back something like rbr 500 and you're restricted to 600 and you take off you could be in a lot of trouble now this next section I left the pauses in there A lot of times I delete them but I left them in there so you can kind of see what's happening real world time as this whole thing plays out with the confusion of one taking off on top of another plane listen to this character from FedEx 1432 have you cleared to land on one eight left FedEx 1432 heavy that is affirmisher when they left you up to the land traffic department project 737. Roger Farm on the road [Music] Southwest sport FedEx is on the go Southwest 708 Roger could turn right when able now I'm gonna have to make some assumption here because I wasn't in either flight deck and I haven't read a report on what's going on I'm just listening to this audio but here is my guess of what's going on these FedEx Pilots are coming in and they can't either see that that plane is still on the runway because like it's like I'm talking about low-level fog they're there coming into land which means until 100 feet or 200 feet over the runway they're going to be able to see outside fine so if that plane hasn't come up through the fog they know that they're still on the runway so that's a problem or they're able to see them for whatever reason sometimes with the fog you can still see the plane moving but you haven't figured it out or they're using the t-cast system and I've talked about that in other videos it's our traffic collision avoidance system you're going to see another plane that's near you with their transponder is on you can see okay they're still on the runway we're lined up on the runway you're now going to see how close you're getting to that other plane so it's one of those few scenarios that's going on from these FedEx pilots and there are seeing like okay this is a potential problem and that's why the Fedex pilot made this call here Southwest sport the problem is is that from the controller standpoint that Fedex pilot that sang that he doesn't know who's making that call obviously as you're listening to this from the comfort of your home or wherever you're at you can hear that's one voice and you can tell however for that controller who just listening and engaging everything that's going on all he hears is Southwest aboard so he doesn't know he's thinking that it's Southwest saying we're aborting our takeoff and that's fine then FedEx says they're on the go so the controller thinks okay Southwest is aborted Southwest is going around so everything's fine Southwest you can turn off right and then come back in and try again is what he's thinking however that's not what's going on listen here to what Southwest says the obvious concern for the FedEx Pilots is they're above having a visual view of everything that's going on is that the Southwest plane is going to take off because they've already made the decision to go around so when that pilot is calling to Southwest saying to abort the Southwest Pilots are probably going too fast but his concern is that Southwest is going to take off right into them that's going to be a big problem now the traffic collision avoidance system would keep these planes apart but you as a pilot are not going to rely on that system to protect you so he what he's trying to do is be proactive and hope that Southwest is maybe going slow enough that they'll abort their takeoff but it sounds like they're moving too fast down the runway and if you're the Southwest pilot as you're moving down the runway really fast with low visibility that's not really the time that you want to reject your takeoff if you're going very quickly into a high-speed reject and you're just hearing Southwest abort you don't that's not air traffic control or that's not the control tower saying Southwest your call sign abort your takeoff that's not what's going on and even if it was if you're going too fast it's not going to be a safe time to do it so the controller's thinking Southwest of the boarding Southwest is going too fast to abort FedEx is asking to abort and saying they're going around so you can see how all this confusion is happening now the Fedex pilot it's not really our place as a pilot to tell another plane what to do but he's trying to avoid Southwest taking off from the bottom of them because obviously that's not good for anybody while they're out flying so you have Southwest here on the runway going quickly getting ready to take off you have FedEx right on top of them doing a go around but they're moving faster because they have the momentum and you have the guy in the control tower thinking right now Southwest has gotten off the taxiway but Southwest has not gotten off the taxiway and you heard that from their call when they said negative now I saw some of the comments when this originally came out and people are saying oh that controller messed up big time blah blah blah the problem is is that the controller had an assumption which is ever great to do but had an assumption that this southwest pilot was going to move quickly and take off because that is how they typically do things if you've flown in Southwest you'll notice that a lot of times you're going faster than the other planes around you while you're taxing around on the runway they tax these fast and like I said I've flown on Southwest all the time I have friends at Southwest they're very very competent pilots and I don't think there's any problem with the way they do things if I were to taxi that fast on my plane all the other Pilots I'm with would be a little bit uncomfortable because well it's a bigger plane so there's more momentum but it's just not the the culture of what we do so people are a little bit less hesitant to want a taxi that fast however at Southwest it's totally normal so this controller when he tells him hey you've got a plane on a short final meaning they're going to be there very quickly and tells them you're cleared for takeoff he's expecting that guy to get on the runway and blast off that would be the expectation because that is a way that Southwest normally does it I wouldn't expect any nothing different if I was him but the important thing to realize from the southwest Pilots is this right here Southwest 708 off the tower Runway one eight left RPI 1200 midpoint 600 roll that one thousand six hundred sliding one seven zero run away when he left clip take off traffic three mile final is a heavy 767. the thing to remember here is that this pilot was given access to the runway when you're given clearance for takeoff that is your Runway if you want to go out there and go nice and slow like Miss Daisy you're allowed to do that however it's just not normal that Southwest would do that but from these pilot standpoint they're looking at the interests of safety their culture is to go quickly and get the flight done however low visibility things are going to be moving slower you to make sure that you have the visibility requirements everybody's ready you have to be very focused for doing low visibility takeoffs so that is the reality is that these Pilots aren't required to get off in a certain time frame typically controllers slow things down when things are happening in a low visibility environment so the pilots that are in the Southwest plane they didn't do anything wrong by taking a long time to get off the Runway and do their takeoff they were in the right to do that however it got very confusing and it didn't go at all like planned but this next part is really important to hear so I maintain three thousand whenever you could turn left heading zero eight zero we'll turn to zero zero three thousand FedEx fourteen thirty two heavy Southwest temperatures where you can turn uh left heading 170.77 it was a bad situation and in some cases you will have Pilots where they will act like a child because they feel they've been wronged however neither of these Pilots were doing that I think at this point the FedEx Pilots obviously know what was going on because they were trying to be air traffic control and fly the plane they knew what had happened but he's not being a baby about it and being difficult with air traffic control it's a mistake it was an honest mistake I don't think the controller had any bad intentions at all whatsoever the Southwest Pilots they were slow to get on the runway they were doing what they needed to do to safely do their take off they could have said something you know everybody either pilot could have said something but neither of them did at this point they're doing the most important thing while we're out flying which is be a professional and fly the plane safely fly the plane and then afterwards once you get on the ground you and air traffic control and whoever because there's going to be some reports that are going to get written probably from both Pilots and air traffic control and the FAA is probably going to look into it to investigate how this happened why it happened and to prevent it from happening because even though this wasn't an accident it was a close call and in aviation a lot of times if you can learn something without anybody getting hurt that's the best time to learn if these planes had taken off where Southwest had started climbing into this FedEx plane they would have gotten told from their traffic collision avoidance system to maintain their altitude which is not really what you want to hear you know 500 feet off the ground the FedEx plane would have got told to climb and I'm sure there's two different ways you can do a climb I'm sure they were doing the fastest climb they could because they were seeing all this played out however with them coming in and Landing they have a lot more speed and momentum to get past and in front of Southwest so as soon as Southwest got out of the fog or clouds they would have been able to see FedEx on their traffic collision avoidance system and probably visually to stay away from them listen to to call the FedEx Pilots got as they came back around and landed again at Austin FedEx 1432 is heavy is clear the runway it's 1432 everywhere I just serve you have our apologies we appreciate your professionalism thank you while the controller made the mistake by assuming that these Southwest Pilots were going to get off in time and I'm sure that's not a mistake that'll ever make it was a genuine honest mistake in my opinion the FedEx Pilots even though they created some confusion by telling Southwest to abort which isn't really their place to do again they're trying to be safe doing a go around while telling her while telling another plane to to abort which the Southwest Pilots chose not to do probably because they were moving very fast so there was a lot of different things that were going on here at the end of the day everybody remained professional and the air traffic controller even though he created a bit of this problem by letting Southwest go and attempt to take off while FedEx was close behind I don't think that it was bad intention at all if you enjoyed this video check out this one over here I look forward to hearing from you until then keep the blue side up

Channel: 74 Gear

Views: 784,929

Keywords: pilot, airline pilot, 747 pilot, 74 gear, pilot Kelsey

Id: UG82fkmCQbc

Length: 20min 9sec (1209 seconds)

Published: Sun Feb 26 2023