USAir Pilot Refuses Takeoff Instructions

it's a super foggy night as you pull up to the runway and Tower clears you for takeoff if they're 29.98 Runway five right fly Runway heading third floor takeoff but you heard some confusion confusion from United aircraft which just landed a few minutes earlier you tell the controller you're not ready to take off until that United aircraft gets the confusion result of where they're at because you think they're near the runway you're planning to take off from the controller says they're nowhere near your Runway but you hold firm with your decision that decision saved hundreds of lives here's the full story a FedEx 727 and US Air 737 are holding short of five right as a United Boeing 757 aircraft lands on the runway at Providence Airport as United exits the runway the tower calls to ask them for their position yeah 1448 what's your position and [Music] uh now this is a current day chart of what this airport looked like but at the time of this incident the taxiway Victor here was actually Runway five left I'm not sure if this incident had anything to do with them changing it but here's how the audio starts yeah 1448 thank you taxi Savannah for your taxes November and Tango report Crossing okay okay in really low visibility situations especially during this time the pilots would have to report to Tower and let them know that they were clear of the active Runway and once they're clear that active Runway they can then clear that other plane for takeoff because of the heavy fog the controller can't see where the planes are and they didn't have any of the tracking and things that they have now to show things moving around on the airport so they're relying on these Pilots to let them know they're clear of the active Runway before they clear any additional traffic for takeoff or Landing as the United Pilots pull off the Runway they are here on November and they check in with Tower State their position and get clearance of how to taxi to the gate in order to park their clearance was moved forward across this intersecting Runway here and turn left keep in mind this is happening in 1999 and in 1999 we didn't have any of the current features that we have now like you've seen on some of my Vlogs I have moving maps and those help me figure out exactly where I'm at on the runway at this time we had paper charts and the paper charts is basically something that you get sent and they get updated every few weeks and you'd have to change them out in these binders which the pilots had to carry around now I hit one button and updates it's significantly simpler but besides that I can see physically with the GPS where I'm at on the runway which makes things a lot easier these are the paper charts that the pilots had to use back in the day back in that day they called them 10 9 Pages they say hey get out your 10 9 page now Pilots usually just call them taxi charts because even though it's the same number they just to make it simple most Pilots don't refer to them as 10 9 Pages anymore now we have things like this flashing dot or this Arrow to figure out which direction we're moving but this United crew wouldn't have any of that and they were clearly lost which creates a very dangerous situation United is actually right here but somehow they think they're over here and that they want to turn left on Tango but really they're going to end up turning left here on Bravo it might be hard to imagine how can you have two pilots up there that make such a massive mistake like this but the reality is after a long day flying or having a delay or who knows what was going on ahead of this situation you can make a mistake everybody's human including Pilots so it it's possible to make a mistake and that is where the checks and balances and that's why it's important to have two pilots up there because one might think let's do this and the other pilot should stop them and say hey hold on we didn't cross any other Runway so we can't be down here we should be over here if one of the pilots had just said look we never crossed any other runways when we got off the Runway they would have known that they weren't possibly down here and that they would be here and you've heard me talk about taxing on the ground can sometimes be very confusing and it's it's very important to follow the exact instructions of where you're going because you get in trouble for that and that's why I always write it down because as you write it down you then have something you can look at on the chart especially now with the moving map I I can look at that and then look at what I've written down and that way you and the other pilot can keep verifying that you're going along the right path because sometimes you'll get two or three different taxi ways to take so you'll write those down verify in the map and usually right before the taxiway I will tell the pilot hey next left or next right so that way we know hey and everybody will agree that we're in the right spot but United is lost and they make this first left and turn down Bravo the controller in the tower doesn't even know that that's happening and they're actually headed in the direction of an active Runway and since a controller has no idea about this the controller goes about their normal business and they clear FedEx for takeoff Clinic if they're 29.98 thank you we're made Five Rights fly Runway headings there's four takeoff take off 1662. as FedEx pulls on to five right for takeoff United is confused about the position probably because they're seeing that they're at the intersection and the signs aren't matching up they're planning to be seeing Runway 1-6 and Runway five left but they're seeing Runway one six and Runway five right and some other taxiways that don't match up with their charts so they do the right thing they stop and they make this call now 1448 is on November by the runway here we don't see the uh our tour across stay here in November okay 1448 it's almost approximately one six going to activate November Tango on the other side let's hang on the other side United um the problem is is they're looking at their chart and trying to figure out where they're at around the area where they think they are but they're not there the controller can't see them and has nothing on the ground to figure out where that plane is so the controller thinks that they're just lost in a different section of the airport the pilots are looking at a different section and again on these paper charts I've used them before it's you're it's not easy always to find where you're at because you don't have a flashing pink light or an arrow so if you get disoriented of where you're at on the runway or where you're at on the airport it's hard to figure out oh I'm over here oh this is where we're at especially when you think you're in a totally different area as they enter into the intersection I'm assuming they stopped looked at the taxi chart and are trying to find something outside that matches with where they're at but they stop and do the right thing instead of just continuing along thinking it was all going to work out the pilots did the right thing they stopped I believe and called air traffic control and said this and United 1448 we're approaching kilo here they just took off United 1448 you shouldn't be anywhere near kilo wholesalencies to stop at night in fog tired after a long flight I'm guessing probably the last flight of the day the last thing you want to be doing is having your plane stuck on an active Runway when you just heard a plane take off you don't know what's Landing you don't know what's taking off you don't know where you are at this point the pilots realize they don't know where they are the controller seems like they don't care that you're lost because they think you're in a totally different area so you can hear the anxiety from these Pilots when they're making their calls because they know something isn't right and the last thing you want to do is be on an active Runway if you're on a taxiway and something isn't right not a big deal you can figure it out I've been lost on a taxiway before not a problem eventually it'll get worked out on a Runway things can go really wrong and so they call again and they say this oh this is United 1448 we are currently on our own way I was looking out to the right with a kilo uh we need to go on to the cereal talk to us it had 1448 you were supposed to text you November and Tango I didn't know what Runway you're on I can't see anything from the tower the tower's still in the fog and unable to see anything the United plane just heard the plane take off in front of them and they are saying they are lost and unsure where they are down at the start of Runway five right the U.S air Pilots are hearing all of this and just quietly listening so they have a good situational awareness of everything that's going on unfortunately with technology now you have Pilots that get reliant on technology and this is a skill of having good situational awareness that goes away when you have GPS and all the different tools that we have now Pilots can get reliant on that being everything that they need because you have all of that back in this time you have a lot of Pilots that were flying a very different level of technology so they would listen and try to map out in their head okay this person's here this person is taking off this person's Landing they didn't rely on the technology that you have now unfortunately people in general as you get skills or different technology that's going to help you you're going to lose and forget different skills that you originally had and so now you have Pilots that rely on technology which is safer you won't have this situation but then you also have Pilots that are relying on technology so more they're not necessarily listening to what's going on around them and having that good situational awareness like these Pilots had that were sitting at the start end of Fight right these United Pilots are pushing back heavily to the controller about their position because they may not have known which direction that plane took off from and they don't want the controller to do it again because they probably felt the jet blast from that 727 that took off earlier so United calls again to the controller two or three right intersection of one six and we did not connect on November we are we are by kilo to our right and we're just overshot kilo we did not see it United standby now you can hear the controller starting to get irritated here because she thinks these United Pilots are nowhere near the runway and they're just creating a bunch of attention unnecessarily and it's interrupting the flow of what she's trying to do get these planes taken off and on their way she thinks oh we'll just deal with that later let's just get these planes out and then we'll handle this plane that somehow got themselves lost at a very small airport but they are getting very anxious and listen to this call ma'am on China advice you were in an active Runway United 1448 Lucy Wright is not an active Runway at the taxiway one where IFR in the dark youth are 29.98 for my fried rice live Runway headings there for takeoff now that one is really hard for me to understand now from all of us as we're watching this with the moving map and the diagrams and everything that we're putting together it's very obvious to us that this is a very dangerous situation however imagine you're in this situation either you denied a plane or the U.S airplane neither of them are having all this information that we have from this bird's eye view of where everything is and what's all that's happening so if you were these U.S air Pilots hanging out at the end of five right and you were just talking amongst yourselves instead of listening you would have heard that controller give you a clearance for takeoff and then you might have just thought okay great let's stick it on the runway and blast data here you wouldn't have been thinking about hey this United plan is lost I just heard a plane take off over them maybe we should just wait because they don't know where they are and we don't want to be going going 150 miles an hour down the runway into another plane we know that's not going to work out well so the U.S air Pilots say this uh sorry for 29.98 so we figure out what's going on down there we're just going to stay clear on one way these are 29.98 Rogers holds short of only five rights is that anywhere near the runway but you can pull short okay now I certainly hope this controller ended up calling these Pilots thanking them after the fact I don't know if the United Plane end up moving forward a little bit more maybe more into the runway or maybe this U.S aircraft was more heavily loaded than the 727 from FedEx I don't know uh all the different aspects but it's possible that they they could have prevented a huge Collision of two planes on the runway by having that situational awareness listening to these planes that's lost not caring that the controller at this point is clearing them for takeoff and choosing safety over the typical thing of Pilots like let's just get it going that is a huge mistake that Pilots makes and I've made that mistake before like hey let let's just keep it moving in the habit it'll all work out these Pilots said no something's not right and they trusted their gut and it really worked out this U.S air crew was a hundred percent okay waiting despite the controller making it sound like they were The Crazy Ones for not going and the pilot just let her know with a very simple okay we will never know how many lives got saved and maybe it was Zero maybe it would have been fine they could have taken off and had an extra 15 minutes on their layover or maybe it was 300 lives that they saved theirs included by staying there short of the runway until that confusion got cleared up we're never going to know what I do know is I look forward to hearing from you until then keep the blue side up

Channel: 74 Gear

Views: 2,142,039

Keywords: pilot, airline pilot, 747 pilot, 74 gear, pilot Kelsey

Id: 9uQqBsJ29IU

Length: 13min 16sec (796 seconds)

Published: Sun Aug 27 2023