'Schemer!': Prince Harry and Meghan Markle biographer Tom Bower on his explosive new book 'Revenge'

Hello and welcome to a very special  episode of palace confidential   i'm joe elvin and now from princes to prime  ministers to plutocrats tom bower has written some   of the most read and talked about biographies of  the past 40 years for his new book he has turned   his pen towards the duchess of sussex in a book  called revenge megan and harry and the war between   the windsors and i'm delighted to say that tom is  here today welcome tom thank you for being here   first of all tom why megan well because uh  she poses a challenge to the royal family   and she's a fascinating person i mean  she's a person who started from nothing   has become a world global star and that route to  the top uh has never really been properly reported   and examined and investigated a huge number of  sources wouldn't speak to you people people who   were aligned with megan is that true absolutely  she did her very best and her staff to stop people   talking to me but was not totally successful  so who did you speak to well i'm telling you   i tried to slip it in i tried i spoke to a lot  of people some are on the record i mean like her   father yeah like some boyfriends like people  who worked with her in hollywood people who   came across her in canada it was very important  people in london there were over 80 people who   did talk but there were a couple of hundred who i  approached who didn't talk but you know in the end   they were just said things perhaps which weren't  uh that interesting but i tried very hard to get   her point of view but she did her best to prevent  that happening yeah now let's go briefly back   to her early life and there was a lot of family  complications a lot of families are complicated   but it does sound like megan's was more complex  than most well i think it became complex i think   at the time i mean her mother and father were very  from very different cultures and very different   backgrounds but the father was deeply in love with  uh doria her mother and more and i were besotted   by the birth of megan because he had had two  children from a previous marriage and had a very   difficult marriage so he was determined to spoil  megan rotten which is what he met admitted he did   the marriage broke up very swiftly because of  their very different backgrounds you have to read   the book what went wrong and she had a terrific  childhood he got her into one of the best schools   in hollywood she was a good student he took her  out for lots and lots of treats traveled a lot   with her outside la took her then of course onto  the set the abc set where he was the lighting   director she had some very very close good  friends families that looked after her where   while her father was working so it really  was a very stable childhood a happy childhood   and she gets into one of the best university  colleges of america northwestern because of her   education and background so by no means anything  other than a happy childhood although a broken   family but it's fascinating isn't it because  even listening to you talk then that narrative   is at odds with what i've assumed about her  relationship with her father well of course   and that's why i wrote the book she was besotted  by her father kept on thanking him until she was   until before she met harry for his kindness and  generosity and all the rest of it but uh that   relationship as you rightly say fizzles out in a  spectacular way but had already uh the the sort   of the seas of disaster was sown after she moved  to toronto to work on suits she divorced herself   from her past she was determined to cut herself  off from hollywood and build her own new life in   toronto and that meant even abandoning her new  husband and obviously her father too if there's   one consistency with megan that we've seen is  it it's this drive in ambition isn't it well yes   there's nothing wrong with ambition i mean that's  why i write all my books about uniquely ambitious   people narcissists very often the problem with  them is that their ambition always causes victims   and how do they treat the victims and do they  trample them or do they try to ignore them and   how they get ahead and stay on top and that's what  makes megan like other people so interesting and   and what do you make of i think you described it  as her willingness to conceal humiliation as you   yes i think that's what she learned in hollywood  and from her father that however hard you're   knocked only smile that's why when you see megan  today smiling the smile is all fixed and part of   the act and i think that's very good i mean if  you're an actress you're a politician you never   want to concede defeat your attackers now let's  turn to harry just for a moment be fixed i love   some of your descriptions here before you join the  army you're fairly forthright in your assessment   that you right he appeared alternatively charming  spoiled badly educated simple-minded and demanding   and that previous girlfriend said he lacked class  was unromantic unserious short-tempered imperius   what on earth did megan see in that  then she saw someone who's needy and who could serve her purposes and to be fair  i think harry saw the same in her he was looking   for someone who despite all those minuses  wanted him and she she did want him because   she then was promoted from an unknown actress  into a global star so they served each other   what do you think happened to harriet you know  because their meeting from the reports from a   lot of course royal correspondents say that there  was a change in his behavior we were talking in   a show earlier last week about how he used to be  this smiley jovial sort of like party prince and   that he went from being quite friendly and jolly  to surly yeah well i think megan sees enemies   everywhere um as he did too and whereas he was  sort of nurtured to be kind to people because   that's part of the royal performance to look  after megan didn't see that megan saw no reason   not to be the hollywood diva and the hollywood  diva the whole act is to be nice on performance   but in reality hate the whole thing unless  it's your advantage and i think he's slipped   from what was uh the natural person who  everyone in britain loved and saw the smiley   a person who played with children and ears and  bolted the whole thing into this vengeful person   full of vengeance i think megan encouraged the  vengeance megan encouraged the anger and the   hatred and seeing enemies and paranoia so a lot  of people uh accuse megan of sort of changing   harry but do you think this is the real harry  no i don't i think that it's just harry being   a simple soul has easily changed to suit megan's  agenda and megan's living with megan is very   different than living with kate and william megan  has a completely different attitude and i think   california has a different attitude so i think  we're now seeing a different harry and to his   misfortune is not a harry that appeals to the same  sort of people in the same numbers as previously   but you also describe a change in megan's  personality that if you know somebody somewhere   between her journey from toronto to kensington  her she lost her famed empathy well i think   what's fascinating about megan's life is that  she changed when she got to toronto from l.a and   even when she married trevor she still stayed  in toronto to the surprise of the producers   of suits because all the other actors lived in  l.a and commuted toronto to film and went back   home even though she was married she never wanted  to live with trevor in l.a she was determined to   build a new life and therefore trevor is abandoned  and even at their wedding she forbade any   photographs and destroyed the video the official  video because she wanted no record of the wedding   uh even at the time and what she did in toronto  was she got into with a small establishment but   very rich set and she loved that she megan loves  money megan's very commercial she doesn't want   to be poor and then having got all that she  then saw how she needed a consult her husband   who's going to take her to the next stage and she  was on a manhunt there's no doubt i mean there's   nothing wrong with being in a manhunt there are  women hunts too but i mean she was determined   to find someone who could build her up and cory  vitiello the chef she was living with in toronto   he was a good bloke a nice man but he wasn't good  enough for an ambitious woman and reports are rife   that they've both harry and megan shed a lot of  friends over the years and who are their friends   now well i think they'll be local californians i  mean i mean that's one of harry's the perplexing   parts revealed in the book is how when he  introduced her to her friends at the shooting   weekend in sandringham uh the friends were all  told off by megan for their jokes for their   behavior for them but being etonian stockbrokers  or whatever she didn't like their non-mercury   and after the shooting weekend they're all texting  each other oh my god what's all this about and of   course they're not allowed to come to the dinner  after the wedding i mean people him he'd known   for years and even at the wedding of tominskip in  jamaica one of the parents who was there told me   that they that megan had behaved appallingly  they just couldn't understand why harry   was going out with her she didn't like the  food she didn't like them so very difficult   so he's broken with his friends his english  friends and you know american friends for sure   but whether they're genuine or not or just well  they just like harry and megan with their fame   only they can explain do you think they  have close friends because i remember   commentating on the wedding and sort of like being  surprised to learn later that she didn't really   have a great friendship with oprah winfrey at  the time yeah it's crazy friendship the whole   wedding what was the musical the father thomas  markle told me that he knew the people at the   wedding better than megan because he'd filmed  with them all at abc and other studios megan   didn't know opera she'd met her once for a few  minutes she didn't know george clooney that was a   passing once they'd met i mean all it was all for  her future i mean she used the wedding to build   up her career when she returned to hollywood i  don't believe she ever really intended to stay in   britain for long it's fascinating isn't it you you  do address in the book a couple of big disputed   talking points the first is the tears during  the bridesmaids fitting of the royal wedding   now in your version it was an exhausted kate  who was driven to tears and her attempt at   reconciliation was rebuffed and then of course we  have megan talking on the oprah interview about   how it was actually kate who made her cry what  what's yours well probably with megan's version is   that she's told so many untruths in the  opera interview whether about race that   she said that she wasn't really married that day  in windsor they've been married three days before   about protection security all these sort of  things that you have to take everything she says   on that said in that day with a pinch of  salt and when it comes to who made who cry   i'd believe kate any day because i in my book kate  is a hero and a great woman and i don't believe   that she would go out of her way to disparage  megan whereas by then of course megan was accused   of bullying the staff which really did hurt kate  a lot and was but her cues have been misbehaving   so i wouldn't believe megan's version of that  so was it your is it your opinion that's in the   book or did you no i i found sources of course  i talked to sources yeah because sources could   invent as well but i prefer to believe them  rather than make them fair enough then the   second i think i want to discuss is that famous  royal racism claims that you just touched on you   suggest that harry actually laughed off questions  from his family about what a child with of his and   megan might look like and it was only his mood  changing when he discussed it with megan who did   not see the funny side at all well the the most  important point the two important points one is   it's quite normal for parents grandparents  families saying what will your new child be like   and the point of that discussion even on  harry's version especially harry's version   they debate what any future child looked like  long before he'd even proposed marriage to megan   but on megan's version in the opera interview  the conversation happened when she was pregnant   now who do you believe clearly harry is harry  is so stupid he wouldn't actually tell a lie   about something like that so i believe that and  i think megan used his recollection of that you   know i don't think it was a serious conversation  it was just one sort of um passing mention to   use that to attack the royal family and that  was i thought unforgivable an unforgivable lot   for winfrey not to investigate it further to see  about the contradiction between harry's version   and megan's version she just let megan's version  go by the ball and i think that was wrong but i   thought that was a terrible indictment of megan  to actually spin the story which according to   harry he's the original source was untrue and cast  terrible uh a cloud over the royal family and that   to this day well do you imagine a day when we  might ever get to the bottom of who allegedly said   this terrible well there are hints in the book i  won't talk through their hands in the book watch   this space another thing we have discussed lots on  this show is megan's potential political ambitions   and her activism her proximity to important  democrats and so on so i and i know you spoke   to lots of people in america for the book what  do you think the future holds there were we   really going to see a megan presidential run  well i think what's very interesting which i   did discover is completely new is how she got  introduced to american politics in a nutshell   it was through a new york hotelier called john  fitzpatrick who introduced her to hillary clinton   and hillary clinton then becomes a mentor to her  and helps her in many ways and speaks up for her   after the opera interview quite surprisingly  and arranges for her philanthropic philanthropy   and i think that she does see her future as  possibly the beginning of a congressman for   california there are 40 seats there and most of  them are democrat so i see that but her problem is   twofold one is is very badly paid and megan needs  a lot of money she does need a lot of money yeah   she needs a lot of money and secondly you're  going to be pretty tough in a political fight   you know you're up against a lot of competitors  whether she has the ability to be so uh tough   and insensitive and go with the with the rocks and  the roles i don't know we'll see but you can't sue   people as you would like to see in britain for  different for attacking her i think she's quite   like a political role i think she'll first wait  to see her children into school she'll build the   foundations for it but you know it's a tough life  but she's a very good looking woman she's sassy   she's got her issues like parental rights and that  so they've been worse people have been congressmen   so congresswomen say there's a good chance it's um  it would be a complication for harry wouldn't it   i mean whether he's within or with outside the  royal family he's still a royal who then would   sort of be kind of aligned politically well it's  only for harrier promise also for megan because   when she phoned up the two senators to campaign  for women's maternity pay she said hello this is   megan the duchess of sussex yeah i mean  she plays the royal card the whole time   so i don't think that would play well in the  election for a congress or even the senate   so i think they're going to realign their image  i mean i think in any case they're burning out   their royal status pretty fast now i think  that they'll in the end have to give that up   because they don't won't wash well that's what  i one of my questions is is can they make their   particular brand of celebrity last well  they can only do it by being sensational   and by doing something and i think they're  constantly searching for new things to do   but all in the end the end it always comes back to  returning to london like for the jubilee so they   might be able to photograph the queen or that went  wrong or alternatively dumping on the royal family   in harry's forthcoming book but at some stage  is going to be a damn square it is all about   the content isn't it and we're expecting a lot of  it from the sussexes later this year there's the   docu-series from netflix harry's memoirs megan's  podcast and what do you think we will get from   that it will have to be sensational won't it well  he's dumped on his father for not being a good   father he's dumped on even his grandmother for  not having been a good mother to his father i mean   you know there's only so far you can go we were  wondering in an episode of palace confidential   recently if there will be the netflix cameras in  while they thumb through your book in what you see   i can imagine i'm very pleased revelations for  harry the truth yeah perhaps they say my god is   this true what would megan say oh my goodness  well let's let's see but of all the things that   you did find out writing this was there anything  that particularly surprised you well i was very   intrigued by her relationships with her men friend  her husband of that and uh her always looking   for the main chance and often failing but all for  overall is finding all the people who are angry   with her who befriended her they thought they  were genuine friends thought the good relations   and now they felt betrayed and a lot of women like  that pr women agents fellow actresses who thought   that they were could trust her and discovered the  opposite and that i think is pretty interesting do   you think that um they're happy harry and megan  do you think they have a happy marriage i think   at the moment they do i know i'm not on the side  of the majority in that but i think when you see   them walking together two needy people holding  each other tightly by the hand they know they're   under attack they know they've got problems  and they've got an act they've got a piece of   theater like in the united nations or whatever and  they are literally looking for an existence and   harry needs megan i mean badly i think the moment  megan needs harry because what else has she got   and i do think that they sort of have a community  but of interest but megan is a schemer you never   know really looking at megan unless you're  really deep inside her mind what she really   thinks what she really wants and that's the  story across america and britain people perplexed   about a woman who really has betrayed them dumped  them and that's what many obviously think she'll   do to harry and the book ends on something of a  sad note with the queen as well presiding over   now at this time in her life a very disunited  family well i think it's disunited if you look   at megan harry and obviously the troubles of  prince andrew on the other hand i do think   she has the pleasure of seeing that william and  charles are reconciled they're a rough patch   and they're determined to push the firm so to  speak in the right direction and i think for   example the announcement that uh uh william was  going to go and deliver a speech and environment   in boston is a very clever move it shows the  real royals as opposed to the montecito royals   i think they handled the whole jubilee visit by  megan and harry very well they controlled it and   made sure there was no damaging fallout so i think  the queen can be pleased that her son and grandson   are rescuing the problem and repairing the problem  and creating a nexus a tight group who will see   the monarchy on through the rest of the century  now well speaking of the the future i mean what   what's next for you there don't seem to be many  biographies of prince andrew i don't think so i   think no thought for that no no not for me no  couldn't get your teeth into that no i could   but i don't think i will anyone that you are sort  of fascinating yeah but i won't announce it today   place your bets at ladbrokes everybody that is  all we have time for today i'm sorry my thanks   very much to tom bower and a reminder his  new book is called revenge megan harry and   the war between the windsors it's published  by bonnier books and is out now as always   thanks to you for watching and we'll see  you next time on palace confidential bye

Channel: Daily Mail

Views: 1,960,195

Keywords: meghan markle, Daily Mail, daily mail news, prince harry, prince charles, princess diana, queen elizabeth, kate middleton, prince william, royal family, prince philip, british monarchy, palace confidential, prince louis, princess charlotte, prince george, royal, royals, queen, prince andrew, harry and meghan, meghan and harry, william and kate, duchess of cambridge, tom bower, tom Bower book, daily mail royals, meghan, markle, prince, harry, tom, bower, revenge book

Id: UMdru3TVOBQ

Length: 20min 29sec (1229 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 29 2022