Prince Harry and Meghan Markle would’ve never married had Diana been alive | Dickie Arbiter

if din had been alive I'm going to stick my neck out here and I doubt Harry would have married Megan today we're speaking to dicki Arbiter the Royal commentator and former press secretary to Queen Elizabeth II from I forgot my dates right Dicky 1988 to 2000 yeah it was at 1988 2000 but I was also press secretary to the King when he was the prince of Wales and to the late Diana Princess of Wales so quite a mixed bag so somebody who's in a the perfect position to talk us through what's happened but of course those dates span the Anis herbis as as the late Queen described it that 1992 period where we had the marriages falling apart of her children um we had uh you know Diana and Charles and all that kind of unraveling we had the great fire at Windsor and then that marvelous uh speech that the queen gave in which she she addressed it head on and and at that time you were in in that Prime seat as the kind of charge of the kind of Palace communication with the public so what could you just tell us how that that year was for you that must be kind of ingrained in your memory well it is ingrained in my memory thanks for inviting me on on on the times podcast um very much ingrained and anything that could happen did happen I mean we wind the clock back to February 92 and there was that DIN and Charles trip to India uh and D famously sitting in front of the Taj Mahal and everybody was comparing ing it to to other pictures that have been taken Dina headlines that said wistful pensive lonely you name it it was there what is interesting is where she did pose in front of the Taj Mahal is where any VIP goes to uh and stands or sits as the case may be William and Katherine did it a few years ago uh from that spot media journalists no journalists at all or photographers are allowed on the Taj Mahal itself so that is a must and what is interesting what people don't realize is that any major VI or vvp visit to India there are certain must do uh before you can actually do what you want to do one of which was is an audience with the president the second one is laying uh and paying respect at the tomb of Mahatma Gandhi in New Delhi and the other is a visit to the Taj Mahal if you've done it before and you're on a second visit then you're let off but if it's a first visit you have to go there and Charles was in in created a bit of a rod for his own back because way back in 1980 he said one day when he went to the Taj Mahal I would like to bring my wife here well here they were um all those years on 12 years on and where was he he was in Bangalore delivering a keynote speech to British businessmen and Indian businessmen because that's the whole idea of a royal tour to sell UK PLC and Di was 1300 miles away in uh at the Taj Mahal no way that he could have done that and on the keynote speech which was important as far as the UK government was concerned uh in Bangalore but it was that Monument of Love wasn't it at which she was sort of there on her own I remember them going to Australia as well and they've got that they were at U weren't they and that seemed kind of a world apart back in the days where you could actually walk on the on the rock you were permitted to walk on the Rock and you could see them just a huge kind of Gulf between them sort of physically metaphorically yeah it did seem lot is open to interpretation you know PE two people like members of the royal family are not going to walk arm in arm or hand in hand um or or or sort of rubbing shoulders together there is going to be a separation but it is left to interpretation as to what the body language is all about I mean if you go on certain pictures when Charles and Darna were in Sydney sitting on chairs watching uh what was actually happened he reached out to her and he pressed and squeezed her arm uh as as a sort of means of comforting her cuz it was very daunting going going to Australia for her but uh yeah you know a lot of these things a lot of pictures are open for interpretation and get different people reading different body language at the end of the day who are these people uh who they are being photographed they are members of the royal family they're not going to show displays of emotion of Love of romance or anything in public although Sophie did it a few about a week ago she put her arms around Edward Edward celebrating his 60th birthday but that that is that is very rare and I think that's can you tell us what it's like to be in the kind of the center in the eye of the storm given that what what we've we'll come on to what's happening in kind of in in present day uh Palace press offices in a minute but what is it like when you you are the man all the papers are calling up all the broadcasters and of course you know social media wasn't quite you know what it is today when you when when you are running the show but what what is it like when you can see everyone saying oh it's a crisis for the monarchy and how do you when you're in the middle of it how do you deal with that well firstly there was no social media in 1992 and and during the days of of Charles and der at their height there was no internet either there was barely 24hour news it did exist in television uh and and it did exist on radio and obviously newspapers publishing daily uh but it was difficult I'm going to single out two particular incidents in 1992 firstly the public ation of Andrew Morton's book Dina her true story I got wind of it uh in May when Dina went to Hungary she wanted to go back to the P Institute because she had an association with uh with birmingham's uh issue on conductive medicine so she wanted to learn more and I always go ahead on these meeting these visits and I had a briefing and the only thing the Press wanted to know was did Danna help with Andrew Morton's book I said I don't know but I'll ask her and when she arrived at the Pato Institute she went into a retire and sort of brush up the makeup and her hair and I said ma'am the the uh the media were asking about Andrew Morton's book I've got to ask you did you help him and she looked at me squarely in the eye quite angry that I should pose that sort of question no I did not and that was the end of it I went back to them and said well she says she didn't and we have to go along with that and she went on saying she didn't for well over a year until she had to finally admit that indirectly she had helped him now when the uh the serialization happened in the Sunday Times in in June of that year that's we're talking about 1992 uh I had no phone calls except from Diana on the Sunday morning because the papers drop at 10:00 the previous night at London's Ching cross station um and I had a call from her at 5:00 saying what do I do I said ma'am you've already done it I'm not going to say any more than that all I'm going to say is that you haven't got an engagement till Tuesday Lilo do not go out do not answer the telephone do not make calls and I'll be with you on Tuesday and I think she didn't do any of those things oh well let me put it this way she did take my my recommendation which was quite unusual because she tended to listen to herself uh also suggested that she poured herself a stiff drink lie low the other incident was Windsor Castle the fire in 1992 that was on the uh uh wedding anniversary of late Queen and Prince philli he was out of the country he was in Argentina at a world wild life fund meeting uh and the queen arrived down there at about 3:00 in the afternoon and the fire was raging um the Press had a terrific view of it they reported incredible pictures weren't there of that amazing pictures the Brunswick Tower was was a flame you could see it from miles around what really did happen and sort of quered the pitch was the following day on the Saturday Peter Brooke who was then uh Secretary of State for Department of culture um no Department of National Heritage it was called in those days today it's culture media Sport and digital and he was briefed quite comprehensively by the household by his own permanent secretary uh do not talk about the extent of the fire because we don't know do not talk how it's going to be restored because we do not know do not talk how it's going to be funded because we do not no okay yes he got that he walked out about 200 media there television cameras photographers reporters you name it somebody shouted out who's gon to pay for it he said the government pay talk about dropping the ball almost rically picked up the queen and dropped her in the largest pit imaginable you can feel the kind of the press secretary's kind of you know head in hands kind of shaking their head moment the headlines were Dreadful the headlines were anybody who could survive those headlines and the lake Queen did survive the headlines because a few weeks later we turned it round because it was a suggestion from late Queen and late Prince philli that Buckingham Palace should be open to the public well that's right that that's the point to which they you know they did open and the Buckingham Palace and charged for fee and that helped to pay for the restoration didn't it well when you when you think the the initial estimation was that the restoration would take 5 years the cost would be in the region of 40 million it was 5 years but it was about 35 million of which 27 million came from tourism entrance to Buckingham Palace and restructuring entry into Windsor Castle so it was a large chunk of money paid for the restoration the rest of it was money that was already being paid to Windsor uh for general maintenance over that 5-year period each year and there were savings there which is how the rest of the money was made up but it was a good news story at the end of it but my goodness what a rocky start it had well well done because you turned that around then as a kind of you you it's about spotting isn't it how the public are going to react to something because although you know these members of the royal family they're not elected they still need to have that kind of public vote in a way they they need to bring the public with them um so managing that was um must have been quite tricky I think managing anything as far as a raw family were concerned is quite tricky because they're there through hereditary acknowledgement uh they are funded by today by the sovereign's Grant which is money coming from the crown estate uh let's get rid of this myth that it is public money it isn't public money it is money from the crown estate initially the crown estate is owned by The Sovereign and each Reign seeds it to government in return for a grant in the old days it was a civilist goes back to 1760 When government went cap in hand all the time to George II and we need money and they came to an arrangement where the Crown Estates would be seated to the to the government of the day and in return there would be a privy Pur a a a civil list uh that's what we had until all 2012 The Sovereign Grant and it is the sovereigns Grant and it's 15% of the net profits of of the crown estate Crown estate is a multi-billion pound organization um making money hand over fist through its its management of of property that it owns whether it's Fields uh the shoreline of the of England or or or property within within London and elsewhere so it's it's it's it is a lot of money it sounds a lot of money but then it's got to cover a lot I mean for example the 15% has to cover not just the salaries but the running of monarchy PLC it's not pocket money to The Sovereign let's get rid of that it also funds the maintenance of the occupied Royal palaces these are Buckingham Palace Windsor Castle Kensington Palace St james' Palace Clarence House they all have to be maintain in the past it all came from government now it's the Royal household managing it it has to take into account Royal travel if the Royals go abroad um there's usually a CH of British Airways or a other aircraft um that has to be paid for and let's not forget why are they going abroad they're going on abroad on behalf of the British government they're not putting their hands up say I want to go to India I want to go to Japan I want to go wherever they are being sent there by the government now in the past the government paid for it now the money comes from The Sovereign Grant and the household pays for it out of those monies so it's Prett spread pretty thin there is as you well know is an additional amount of money and that is £39 million every year for 10 years I think the uh reserving of Buckingham Palace finishes about 27 2019 been going on for a while hasn't it yeah it's been going on a while it's a 369 million pound project and there is uh um there's it's a 10-year program so 39 million each year it's got to be done the alternative is the palace falls down it's a bit like the Palace of Westminster they've been arguing about that for years as to whether MPS and the Lords stay in or move out when it was first moted staying in would cost 7 billion moving out would cost cost three and a half billion they've been arguing about it for years and now the staying in is in double figures million and the uh um moving out is approaching double million figures and if they don't make up their minds soon the building will fall down yes I think well it's good that a lot of these things were put under the last um the last Queen's Reign so that she you know all those decisions were sort of set up for Charles which is kind of a parting gift wasn't it that he didn't have to make those big decisions or go cap in hand to the government for the resurfacing that's all underway but bringing us back to that kind of that you as somebody who's been there in the Anis herbis in 1992 handling it you know deftly to to maintain that kind of that that communication the line of communication with the public and to bring them along with you and the queen in the the restoration of Windsor Castle and and and all the managing of the press you know and the Fallout from Andrew Mor I mean how how do you see how this has played out recently with with the Princess of Wales you know how do you think their PR strategy would you how would you have done it the way that they've done it to say you know no comment we're not saying anything beyond the kind of very Basics and and we'll see you in Easter is that do you think that's a sensible strategy well first and foremost they've got today what we didn't have all those years ago there's social media it's fighting against social media there are a lot of cesspit idiots out there who are making things up uh I don't believe that they're here in the United Kingdom I think they're further a field but we won't go there but they are talking about body doubles they're talking about William beating Kate up one German newspaper was even talking about uh Katherine having is pregnant with twins um that's reminiscent of the 1950s when Prince Philip was away and French newspapers kept on saying the queen was pres pregnant if you say it often enough and this was in the 1950s she eventually was pregnant with in in 1959 with Andrew but that's that's another story but it's fighting against social media now I believe right at the very beginning Kensington Palace handled it right Katherine was going into hospital it was it it was pre-planned she was having a pre-planned abdominal operation she felt and quite rightly too that her medical record should be private as anybody feels that they are private you if you've got children and you go to the doctor and their children are over 16 and you ask the doctor about your children's ailments he won't or she won't tell you because they are private they are confidential so they said she's going to hospital in fact when they announced that she had an abdominal operation already been done she will be in Hospital for almost two weeks and she will be recuperating and back in business after Easter well here we are a couple of weeks away from Easter and my guess is she will be on Parade uh when the family go to church on Easter Sunday we've already seen her albeit in video some people were lucky enough to see it a couple of days ago when she went to the winds uh Farm Shop uh to do some shopping people were gobsmacked at the fact that they were there but it did show that she was looking pretty good pretty Halen hearty but what do you think about the Easter that Easter deadline though they've set themselves up in a way that that was quite bold I remember thinking at the time that they're unlikely to be seen before Easter it's vague enough that you can say but has something gone wrong then everyone's looking at Easter Sunday I think we sort of have to see her on Easter Sunday don't we because otherwise the internet will say oh my goodness we were told all although they said unlikely to return to public duties until Easter the only word that after Easter was the word after Easter was the until after Easter yeah I think I think I I think all that the public remembered was the word Easter so I think and and everyone seems to have forgot the details and all that sort of thing so I think it it is quite crucial that we see her on Easter Sunday do you think it's a great time to make her comeback isn't it I I believe it is it is crucial that we see her we've seen her at the Windsor Farm shop so she's okay she's walking she's smiling she looks happy uh William looks happy too so she's well on the road to recovery and and has is going to meet that Easter deadline and Easter Sunday seems the most appropriate time to actually come out and say I'm okay and go to church because adelay Cottage is very close it's walking distance from St George's Chapel so it would be an appropriate time we have to wait and see Easter Sunday is couple of weeks away um and my guess is that she and he will be there with the rest of the family that can go now you asking about Kensington pis handling I think they've handled it quite well given the circumstances to be told by your principles that I'm not prepared to talk about my medical condition I'm not prepared for uh bulletins to be released because you release something and you get a barage of inquiries and not bar of inquiries just from the UK it's Global because she is a global personality so they've handled it the right way they have always said Easter they have always said an abdominal operation they always said she'd be in hospital for two weeks she was uh they said that she would recuperate at home she is uh so watch this space two weeks time and how do you think he would have fared would you have done things differently if you had had to combat social media when you were in post I think on this issue um no there there is no way of handling it you you issue a statement and that's it that's it's the end of it you're always going to get conspiracy theories look here we are in 2024 61 years ago Jack Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas people are still talking about conspiracies they're talking about conspiracies on on Diana um the being killed in the car crash in 1997 here we are all those years on they're still talking about conspiracies there will always be conspiracies but uh not necessarily having to deal with social media the you're the princess is a global figure people feel they own her they have a right to her they don't own her nobody owns her the only person who owns her is she she owns herself um but they feel that they're not getting enough information well in the fullness of time they will but in the meantime let her recuperate let her get better let her get 100% foot because fit because they won't they won't thank her if she comes back too early and she has a relapse over that abdominal operation we don't know what it is but it doesn't take rocket science for ladies to get on to Google Google abdominal operations there'll be a table there that says all the types of abdominal operations how long it takes to recuperate and how long it takes to get better so let's not speculate anymore let's wait until Easter would I have done it differently there is no different way of doing it given today's social media you can't fight it yeah it's uncontrollable isn't it it's out of it's out of control um we talk about Diana and we saw William last week at the Diana Legacy Awards and then it was quite a few hours later that Prince Harry Duke of Sussex appeared on a video link up what do you think Diana would have made of their their Rift now I'm sure you asked this quite a lot Dicky but um it it seems that the one thing that might bring them back together um even sort of through gritted teeth would be them honoring the memory of their late mother as we saw when they when they unveiled the statue at Kensington Palace Gardens although you know it was it was barely civil wasn't it even then but what do you make of that that is there any way back it seems almost unsa unsalvageable now that relationship well the sun Gardens at Kensington Palace when they unveiled the statue the the body language between them was was Frosty it it was so Frosty you could feel the chill over the television screen even in June or whatever it was July you could you could have driven a fleet of buses between them uh and this this this recent uh um honoring the award system it was really the only way they can they could do it I think the the problem is and you you said what would Diner have made of it if Diner had been alive we would uh if din had been alive I'm G to stick my neck out here and I doubt Harry would have married Megan oh really well that that's that's that's my my why why why do you think that din Dina was was uh very careful about her boys they were her boys she protected them and she would have protected them against um any uh anybody they she felt wasn't the right person Harry has had a number of girlfriends Chelsea Davey that went on for quite a few years she backed out she didn't want to be part of the Goldfish Bowl who can blame her of the bonus and she was also stud to be a lawyer um and she wanted to continue those without having the media breathing down her neck chesa debonis wanted to pursue an acting career and she did pursue that acting career again another person who didn't want to be in the Goldfish bowl and Harry was at a loose end he saw his brother uh happy he was with children he was happy with children he wanted something of the same and my own personal opinion is I thought he rushed into the marriage and do you think Diana might have um been there to coun him would well have put a a question mark over it Harry wouldn't be in the situation he is today if Donna was alive I mean a lot of Harry's problems he has mitted it uh he's got mental health issues he's still not over with the fact that his his mother was killed and every so often he sees uh he sees photographs of her and memories come rushing back I think there comes a time when you really have to let go uh and get on with your life and it is very difficult but coupled with that he had two tours of Duty in Afghanistan and that creates uh post-traumatic stress disorder so there's a bit of that as well and the combination of the two is is making it very difficult for him to heal maybe he's found peace in California I hope so well one thing that we we also have learned is that in California there's a new business venture underway so Megan has launched this American Riviera Orchard brand we've had a little sneak video last week on a new Instagram and a new website it seems to be she's registered the company with a view to then selling product so table wees and home wear setting herself up as a kind of Martha Stewart character or Gwyneth paltro what do you think of that do you think they'll be successful financially well if the past record of what they've been doing is anything to go by uh watch this space because uh Netflix hasn't exactly been successful they were fired from Spotify uh they've I believe signed a five book deal with um with penguin Random House well there's been only one so far maybe there's been another um they they've got to work at it just because they are the Duke and dutches of Sussex doesn't mean that people are going to rush to the website to buy um it's got to be worthwhile it's got to be economically viable it's got to be nice um we have to watch this space uh are they trading off the back of their titles well there's an interpretation that yes they are uh um which they shouldn't be doing but they probably feel they're no longer working members of the royal family they can do what they like they're in California nobody can touch them there so hey ho and we're seeing also that this week the press off the the the Royal official Royal website royal.uk has changed its biographies of members of the royal family and it means that instead of having a separate biography for Prince Harry and a separate biography for Megan The Duchess of Sussex they've combined the two and and I think there's over 2,000 words for Harry and nearly the same for Megan now it's all crunched down into 500 Words and it's makes no reference to the fact that Harry Remains The Fifth and nine to the throne do you see this as a kind of a snub by the palace I mean they're saying it's not we've not downgraded them it's just a it's just a website update it's a refresh but you do wonder I'm going to correct you there firstly it's uh uh 360 words 230 for Harry and 130 for Megan um maybe it's a bit your ma is better than mine Dicky but but that's uh no I did I did the Google work um but uh no it's not a snub they are no longer working members of the royal family as the Duke of York no longer a working member of the royal family it it's it's a courtesy page uh I think it's probably a little bit too much there are five photographs for Harry and Megan uh six photographs for Harry and Megan and four for the Duke of York I think that again is too many but no they're no longer working members of the royal family so they are there as a matter of courtesy not as a matter of must be and anybody looking up at that Royal official Royal website will also see a very handy link to sussex.edu given everything that's been going on they probably felt that they could could afford to take their time which is what they've done um but again as I said a moment ago I think it's probably too much you you don't need as much for non-working members of the royal family we know who they are we know what they've done we know what they're doing um just you know a couple of paragraphs end off and as a kind of final thought I guess from di from you Dicky any from someone who's been there who's seen it who's been in the eye of the story who's managed the press brilliantly and managed that kind of narrative for the between the family and the public what advice would you give to a press officer sitting in Kensington Palace now today sitting in Kensington Palace have greater contact with your with your principles make sure your principles tell you everything that you need to know uh we had this this whole business of the photograph on mothering Sunday uh it seemed like a huge storm in a teacup everybody uh does a bit of photo shopping on photographs to to clean them up a certain amount of the blame must be with the uh photo agencies for not checking you don't take a photograph from an amateur and just bung it out and say well Kensington Palace were a trustworthy organization which is why we did it no you check everything uh an editor will check copy before it gets sent off to the printer same way as a photo photo agency checks a photograph before it gets sent off globally what they did they sent it off globally and it took them hours reacting here we are again social media uh to to kill it uh and it shouldn't have gone that far and they should have withdrawn it without a kill notice they didn't need to do that and then to compare killing it is a bit like killing something from South Korea well that is outrageous yes I think they um the kill notices although it's their kind of nomenclature it's the terms that they particularly use to the Layman it seems quite extreme doesn't it kind of kill notice it seems it seems very extreme I think it was agile's France press that likened it to South Korea well as France press what do you expect that's absolutely fantastic thank you Dicky for your tremendous insight as always somebody who's been there lived it done it and still in touch with so many people in and around the palace we do really uh thank you for your time and you've been thank you Kate you've been listening to Royal confidential With Me Kate mancy you can subscribe to our YouTube channel for more episodes or find my writing in the times you can also listen to times radio for more Royal news but for now goodbye

Channel: Times Radio

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Id: tTxcX4jrnPA

Length: 30min 7sec (1807 seconds)

Published: Tue Mar 19 2024