ROGUE in WotLK Classic: Was It Any Good Though?

this video is sponsored by world of warships more on that in a moment roll the intro [Music] we started this journey in 2019 and with wrath of the lich king classic confirmed for 2022 it is time for another class retrospective series during vanilla we asked was it any good though in tbc we moved on to ask is it any better now and for wrath well it's no longer a question of asking if your class is good or not because every spec in the game is great at something so we're going to be looking at what is new to your class baseline the pve talent changes as well as raiding how well your class is expected to perform in raiding throughout the expansion pvp performance in the arena as well as taking a look at your tier sets and then through this hopefully we can give a proper answer to your class in wrath of the lich king classic just how broken is it now [Music] before we make a start i want to do a quick shout out to today's sponsor world of warships world of warships is a free-to-play game 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battleship uss texas 20 vessels fire camouflage 1 million credits and 7 days of a premium account all for free many thanks to world of warships for the sponsor let's talk wow the rogue so far has had quite the journey throughout classic's lifetime starting in the original game they were a pve powerhouse that was just as good in pvp content in tbc they grew even more powerful in pvp somehow and arguably were the most consistent class found at high ratings across arena brackets yet in pve they often struggled to find their spots in raids people saw them as a low utility class that was easily replaced by others who could outperform them well that is until we started hitting late game tbc gearing and a certain set of legendary weapons which also helped out quite a bit so in wrath of the lich king how will world of warcraft's premiere stealth and thievery class evolve let's check out the rogue so then what is new to the class baseline we need to start off with poisons in classic and tbc they were quite honestly pretty lackluster yeah they are great in pvp content but more for their utility in applying a slow or immortal strike type effect at no point have they ever actually done damage this is going to change by a lot first up you are not making your own poisons anymore this is a shame really i'm not quite sure why this was taken away they had already buffed poison durations to be an hour in tbc so you didn't have to make all that many of them and it was a fun little class fantasy thing nevertheless in wrath the vendor that used to sell your poison materials will now just instead sell them to you directly also vanish does not need every agent anymore either so more bank space for the rogue i guess on top of that you're going to be using a poison on your main hand and off hand all of the time when fury totem now gives melee haste instead of that temporary buff that allowed extra attacks yes rip win fury totem and finally poisons will now begin to scale in damage with the rogue's attack power so in short poisons are really good make sure you have plenty on you all of the time more or less every single poison has had minor two major changes as well the mind numbing and crippling poison the proc chance is now 50 and the cast speed reduction effect on mine numbing is 30 down from 60. instant poisons move to a proc per minute instead of a percentage chance depending on your weapon speed deadly poison now works the same but once it's at five stacks prox will instead apply your other weapons poisons these two poisons will contribute a significant portion of your dps especially as assassination which we will look at soon an aesthetic poison which you probably didn't even know exists because it's completely useless in tbc now dispels an enrage effect if you desperately need that and some fights do hunters usually deal with this though wound poison doesn't stack anymore there's one application 50 healing reduction it's both better and that you don't need to stack it and worse in that it doesn't protect your other poisons energy is no longer gained in increments of 20 and will continuously regenerate haste also benefits energy regeneration which it already did in tbc but i think now it regenerates constantly it's a little bit more noticeable aside from this rogues have also learned the delicate and stealthy art of equipping axes for assassination exposed armor now reduces armor by 20 instead of a flat value and improved exposed armor now reduces the energy cost of this ability instead of making it more powerful which puts expose on equal footing with other abilities like thunderrama or a new hunter petability acid spit you'll of course want one of these up when you're raiding but it's not always going to be the rogue's job anymore so that's some good news in venom gets buffed significantly throughout wrath and i'm glad it did because the whole mutilate rogue just never saw the light of day and was never viable at all at any point in tbc now on top of doing high nature damage of course which is by passing armor it will also dramatically increase the chance for you to apply poisons for a short duration afterwards and most importantly there is a talent there's also a glyph but you'll take the talent when your assassination which stops in venom from consuming your deadly poison stacks and absolutely ruining your dps which is vital dismantle is another new ability that removes all carried equipment from the target for 10 seconds it's like disarm but better a short cooldown and a low energy cost it will remove shields and pvp against high armor targets and the disarm effect was one of the few bits of utility which a rogue did not already have and well now they do over in the combat tree rogues get something which historically in raiding has made them extremely overpowered banked on top of the threat reduction effect will now also make you take 50 percent less damage from aoe fx for six seconds so essentially a rogue is going to survive practically any big aoe ability banked might not even be on your bar at the moment but for raph the lich king i would find somewhere where you can have it to hand combat also gets a new ability fan of knives costs 50 energy hits enemies nearby around you and does bonus damage if you have a dagger equipped fan of knives will also apply your poisons this finally gives all rogues access to a decent aoe effect in wrath however it doesn't build combo points which is a shame but hey it's aoe and that is certainly better than nothing but the stealthy boys in the subtlety tree not too many changes actually zap now works on many more targets other than humanoids in fact it works on practically anything other than mechanicals there's another new ability tricks of the trade think misdirection but for a melee class and straight up better it's a short 30 second cooldown and lasts 6 seconds during which time it will redirect all of your threat to the chosen target and increase their damage by 15 for the duration uses of this vary quite a bit sometimes raids choose to have two rogues who would tricks each other on cooldown to bounce their threat out and give themselves a nice damage buff sometimes it's just common sense to put it on a tank so they can build threat quickly on a new target you can also glyph this ability to last four more seconds and the tier 10 2 set makes it give you 15 energy instead of costing that much you could in theory have three rogues with tricks of the trade glyph giving one member of your raid team a permanent 15 damage buff it sounds like something past enthusiasts would end up at least experimenting with hey at least the raid would be guaranteed three rogues if this was the case but i don't expect many people to really do this in practice and your tanks threat would have to be absolutely insane to be keeping up but it's just something to think about let's talk raiding and the pve talent changes for this i'll be covering both assassination and combat as the rogue has two fully viable playstyles which will vary depending on your preference as well as which tier and gear is currently available i'll start with the assassination or mutilate spec whichever you want to call it because this specialization is more or less brand new as it was entirely unused throughout the duration of tbc in fact rogues and pve have been combat spamming sinister strikes since day one of classic finally things change and the talent tree is very much gonna reflect that as there's been an enormous amount of stuff which has had to change to make it work here is an example talent tree let's talk about the new stuff blood spatter gives your bleed some extra damage vigor has been moved all the way up in the tree from where it used to be during tbc and improved poisons gets mega buffed it used to just increase the chance to apply poisons by 10 now it's 20 percent more chance to apply deadly poison and 50 for instant poison murder has also moved a little down the tree and is now a flat 4 damage increase deadly brew is a new talent to the tree and is more of a pvp thing basically makes it so you get to apply crippling poison without actually having to have it active overkill is yet another new talent which makes you generate a lot more energy in stealth and for 20 seconds afterwards we'll have to see how this interacts with the likes of vanish or the updated version of night elf shadow meld which works in the same way as vanish there's a chance you'll be able to proc this talent multiple times per fight or maybe not the beta will tell us for sure when it's out find weakness has also just changed from damage after you use a finishing move to just do more damage in general focused attacks gives assassination a lot more energy generation over the course of a fight and master poisoner is yet another new talent yes assassination really needed this much help this supplies a 3 crit debuff on the target which otherwise can only be done by retribution pally or an elemental shaman as well as decreasing the duration of poisons on you by half which i'm sure has some niche uses here and there and most importantly it makes it so in venom doesn't consume your deadly poison and absolutely delete your dps anymore which is amazing then the table looks fairly decent but we haven't taken it here and we're going to see why when we look at the towns in the other trees in a moment what cut to the chase does is remove slice and dies from your regular rotation and just make it into a one-time button press at the start of a fight and then you forget about it the bottom of the tree is the winner for the most boring bottom of talentry ability in the entire game hunger for five percent more damage look it's nice and all but i'm looking over there at classes like warriors with bladestorm and titan's grip and it's good obviously and you can glyph it to be eight percent more damage which is a lot of flat damage and you should be able to proc it off any bleeds such as marksman hunters who will be spamming bleeds or warriors it's really effective but it's just not terribly exciting over in the combat tree we're really only after lightning reflexes for that 10 extra melee haste which means more poisons being applied more focused attack procs and just more consistent damage which is what assassination is all about finally in the sub tree two points are spent for a little bit more damage on some of your abilities assassination rogues use glyphs such as mutilate hunger for blood and the third is a bit of a flex in this case i went for fan of knives for a bit more aoe if however you prefer to stay with combat rogue which you may end up playing later on in the expansion for reasons we'll get onto in a moment and we should also take a look at that improved slice and dice now increases its duration by 50 but only two talent points and repost will also now generate a combo point which is a nice little leveling change you should think about sword specialization has been renamed to hack and slash and still gives a chance to gain a bonus swing with either a sword or an axe now may specialization now makes them ignore armor instead of having a chance to stun and fist weapons have been added into the dagger's talent and give some more crit blade twisting has had 10 damage added on to certain abilities so that literally anybody takes this talent for the first time ever and vitality increases energy regeneration by a huge 25 which is really gonna smooth out your rotation throwing specialization is a new addition and increases the range of your well ranged abilities and adds an interrupted deadly throw similar to what the pvp gloves did in tbc unfair advantage is another more leveling oriented talent and savage combat is a valuable debuff that adds four percent physical damage taken to the target only either a combat rogue or an arms warrior can apply this right near the bottom of the tree prey on the weak which should essentially just be a flat 20 bonus quick damage on the majority of enemies you're facing and finally combat gets a very exciting and historically very buggy ability killing spree teleport between enemies attacking in rapid succession and then hopefully don't land somewhere where you fall through the floor or disconnect which is how it's worked on retail for years when it works though it adds to combat rogue's super cleave heavy kit and it's really satisfying to fire off combat rogues consider glyphs such as killing spree to lower that cooldown massively sinister strike to give it a chance to add an extra combo point and the third one again is a bit up in the air here i've gone for tricks of the trade for a bit more duration on it so that's a little bit of a pve talent overview but how do we think rogues are going to perform overall in wrath classic as per usual i have to mention this take this with a grain of salt this is based off my experiences conversations with others and my own personal research i think rogues will be overall in a much better spot than tbc if i'm honest i can't see a raid ever running without at least one and i don't think there's anything wrong with having more than one of them either now that assassination is not absolutely useless you want somebody in your raid to be picking up those daggers when they end up dropping speaking of assassination they are expected to be one of the most consistently high dps throughout the entire expansion the gearing requirements they have to be able to start pumping great damage is also very low and they scale well however the damage is super single target focused and the nature of applying deadly poison stacks and having to build combo points means they're even weaker than rogues usually are at target switching also they are um how can i put this one of the most straightforward specializations in the game they don't have a big cooldown to pop they just kind of choose a target and hit it very hard with a very simple rotation i'd say assassination could be a good spec if you like to perform well in raid but also like to pop some real-life consumables during your raid if you know what i mean as the expansion progresses and more armor penetration gear begins to become available in ulduar and beyond it's expected many rogues will look to make the swap over to combat as it should eventually begin to outscale the pure single target of assassination and by icecrown citadel combat should be pulling comfortably ahead though assassination is still very consistent and i can see them beating combat out on single target fights for a large portion of the expansion either way both specialization should be viable in a rate comp and it'll be down to you to pick one that fits better in any event rogues get more utility through tricks of the trade valuable debuff from master poisoner and savage combat and more consistent damage throughout the expansion i think rogue should be a pretty good steady choice for a melee that's about enough on pve though i reckon time to talk arena though in tbc rogues and arena are simply part massively overpowered the sheer amount of cc burst mobility utility and just damage they put out is questionable how they ever made it to live service like that in wrath as many other things do this changes quite a lot their damage distribution is different as is their survivability and just their general playstyle go on are the days of chasing people around spamming hemorrhage in wrath instead you're going to be using daggers also rogues aren't about applying that constant pressure and building up wound poison stacks and now they are way more burst focused and on top of that a lot squishier than they currently are average rogues will find themselves getting deleted in a few seconds when out of position whilst experienced rogues still have an amazing toolkit to outplay and outmaneuver their enemies finally before we take a look at towns there kind of is an assassination pvp spec and it kind of plays like how the tbc version of rogue does we just pick a target and hit them and do a lot of damage but it's just missing so many tools that subtlety has and we've looked to the majority of the assassination towns so i think for this we're just gonna look at sub relentless strikes is now at the top of the subtlety tree and is a five point talent elusiveness also gets changed it used to reduce the cooldown on blind and vanished by 90 seconds now both of those are reduced by 60 seconds but it also makes cloak of shadows come up 30 faster as well though this means there is no more auto win on the second blind anymore against a wide range of comps as blind will now share a cool down with the pvp trinket serrated blade reduces a percentage of target's armor instead of a flat amount emo gets bonus damage scaling when using a dagger and initiative has changed to be a 100 chance to add a combo point for some more consistent openers and damage premeditation has been removed from preparation but its cooldown has been lowered from two minutes all the way down to 20 seconds waylay is a brand new talent and adds an attack speed and moves speed slow to your backstab and ambush abilities i've put one point here in honor among thieves it should proc fairly often when in group pvp and when considering that some damage over time and heal over time effects can crit now that should also add into it filthy tricks is another new talent and largely removes the energy cost from a bunch of utility spells the rogue has as well as reducing the cooldown on preparation to five minutes total water from the shadows makes it so your backstab and ambush are much more spammable during a burst window as well as increasing all damage by five percent and at the bottom of the tree we have shadow dance a short one minute cooldown that allows you to use stealth abilities for six seconds regardless of actually being in stealth or not this adds a huge amount of utility and just brand new combos for the road to try out between applying a garage silence to somebody not expecting it catching a healer who's trying to drink with a sap and just so much more at the top of the combat tree i've also taken improved gouge for even more cc subtlety rose can use a bunch of different glyphs depending on what kind of comps you're facing i've decided here to go with ones like preparation for even more cc and disruption shadow dance for an extra global or two out of stealth as well as gouge to make this utility ability even better between an insane toolkit of cc such as kick gouge garage cheap shot kidney shot utility and mobility like blind and shadow step and strong burst damage from ambush and backstab rogues just don't ever stop being a great pvp class and they continue to be viable across a wide range of comps such as roguelok shaman or the inevitably forever viable rogue mage priest ending off on the tss for the rogue then tier vii from the revamped next rammus either turntee and southern's lure is the bone scythe battle gear and as per all the copy paste tier 3 gear it's awesome in the lux department two set is 10 more damage on rupture at this point the expansion i would imagine all the rogues will be assassination so that's a little bit of bonus damage for you the force that reduces the cost of your combo building moves by five percent which in real terms means mutilate costs three less energy so yeah not great tier eight the terror blade battle gear from ulduar i like this set it's a good mix of spooky and roguey i also like the whippy shoulder things it just kind of stands out on it two-set means you get one energy each time deadly poison deals damage which is okay it scales in aoe situations where you can proc it via fan of knives and on single target it's a marginal energy gain also means 20 more rupture damage which means somebody at blizzard really likes this ability as we will continue to see with tier ix these are either garona or van cleef's battle gear let's not talk about how t9 looks and moves straight onto the bonuses two-piece a chance on ruptured tick to reduce the cost of your next ability by 40 energy which sounds pretty good until i went to check on the proc chance and found its 2 so it's not good the full set is five percent crit chance on various combo builders particularly nice with mutilate since it scales up with seal fate's ability to generate extra combo points ending off in tier 10 the shadow blades battle gear it looks kind of um like a halloween costume went wrong i don't know that guy's turd always look goofy to me the two set makes tricks of the trade grant 15 energy instead of costing 15 which is really nice you were already pressing this button so somebody else can get 15 damage out of it or for the threat generation now you get a benefit personally as well from doing so the full set makes it so melee finishing moves have a 13 chance to add three combo points to your target what a weird random selection of numbers sometimes you can pop off if it's procking back to back other times it just doesn't really do anything i'd prefer something a bit more consistent than that so now we've had a look at the pve various specializations new abilities pvp and tss can we give an answer to rogue in wrath of the lich king classic how broken is it now it's in a pretty damn good state i would actually say assassination seems pretty broken when you can push incredibly high dps with super low gearing requirements combat though should take over later as more armor penetration gear becomes available yet both should be competitive rogues are now much more wanted across pve content and are an asset to bring to raid with tricks of the trade and a number of valuable debuffs and people won't spend half the expansion meaning them anymore like they did in tbc that is for sure in pvp they remain an absolute powerhouse of a class yet i think they get more difficult to play due to being squishier and having to focus more around burst windows rather than following somebody around spamming himo despite all this guilds won't be jumping at the chance to stack rogues by any means and i don't think a version of world of warcraft exists where loads of people don't want to play this class for obvious reasons so do expect a bit of competition when looking for those raid spots and that is the rogue in wrath let me know your thoughts on whether you'll be giving this class a go as a main origin alt i reckon it'll be a pretty solid choice as always guys thank you all so much for watching and listening in and i shall see you on the next one very soon [Music] you

Channel: WillE

Views: 221,785

Keywords: wille, classic wow, wotlk, wotlk classic, wotlk release, wotlk tier list, wotlk dps tier list, wotlk pvp tier list, was it any good wotlk, combat, assassination, subtlety, wotlk pve, wotlk pvp, dk, death knight, wotlk dps, paladin, mage, warlock, priest, druid, rogue, hunter, shaman, warrior, naxx25, ulduar, icc, dragonflight, best mmo, free mmo 2022, best mmorpg, best free mmorpg, best mmo 2022, mmo 2022, eso, gw2, ff14, osrs, riot mmo, ashes of creation, dungeons and dragons, gaming, pc

Id: G5Lj1BeWqDg

Length: 23min 54sec (1434 seconds)

Published: Fri Jun 17 2022