Price Paid for Walking Away From The Mafia

if they prove you put $1 doll into buying your house one illegal dollar they take your whole house right everything so now they kill you financially they kill you with time they destroy your family so what happened was the fed's very simple hey you want to talk to us if not you're going to spend the rest of your life in jail with taking everything you got in your family you're done you're finished but if you want to cooperate with us you'll be out this guy's going away forever don't worry about it we'll give you some money we'll put you in a program that's it guys didn't stand up under that right so many guys became informants and that was it walk Redemption let me ask you another thing you're on the street you make a score whatever armored car robber whatever you want to say you make a score you make a 100 Grand do you have to kick anything up to the boss this was your deal this is your deal is your deal and what happens is you know it's interesting you know people thought they have the misconception of when I did that show on Outlaw Chronicles on the History Channel I was talking about the guys cooking crank you know people thought that it was one big happy family and we had it all structured the guys that knew how to cook crank did not share that recipe they controlled it they were independent individual I Ed the phrase you get a kick out of I said like Mom's Italian spaghetti recipe you know they guarded it they were like there's only a handful of us that know how to cook drugs you know gives us an hand it gives and it g gives an upper hand not only financially I've never said this before publicly but it gives you an upper hand politically because you can you know how you can influence people with money absolutely and you guys didn't allow drugs but you know people selling drugs there's a lot of money in drugs question fast money well let me tell you the difference I'm a recruit and somebody comes to me with a load of meat big truck meat right so anytime you have something like that on the street you got to put it on record with your boss right I wasn't a maid guy yet I was a recruit so I go to my boss at the time I said I got a load of meat I'm gonna sell it he says fine when you sell it you come back to me bring me the money okay so I sell it I'll never forget George it was about $7,200 I come back I hand him the whole $7,200 right two days later it calls me and he gives me 600 bucks I said 600 bucks so I go see my father you know he was in lore at that time I said dad I bring in this score I give them $7,200 they give me $600 I don't even get 10% of the deal it was my deal right you're you came up with it you executed it yeah I executed cuz anything on the street you have to put on record no matter what it is that seems dangerous to me well the reason they do that do they actually write it or is it all in their head no it's in their head but they say we're protecting you because in case anybody makes a claim on it if it's not on record you're going to lose it like say somebody else would say that was my that was mine I want to sit down yeah I want to sit down but if you got it on record you're protected but meanwhile they want to know everything you're doing of course so they don't they don't get cut out so I go see my dad and he says okay from now on here's the deal anything that you bring in you just bring them 25% that's it you don't hand them everything from this point I said well he told me to do that he said but from now on this is how you do it you tell them after the fact you don't go beforehand and then you give him the money I said I learned that early on that's what we did from that point but we had to kick up anything that was illegal or on the street we had to kick up I mean it was no question if you went out and made some money and there was a rumor around the club it was never were frowned upon if you threw some moneyy to the Charter to to who through the charter to the club itself oh so you could to the treasur I'm sure they like that yeah you know here's some I want to donate some money I you know had my grandma Missy died or whatever but it wasn't a rule no it was not a r have to do that so this is sounding more like a club it was a club a criminal organization it's a organization that has criminals in it it's not a criminal organization yeah and you know people learned real fast that uh that patch on their back gave him a lot of power it gave him a lot of power in many aspects of street life you know it uh and you also have this Unwritten thing going on what's going on in people's heads as you probably know I mean it's like this guy's a mob guy he tells me I got to do this I better well do it you know it's the same thing in the club somebody in the with a Hell's Angel patch on tells you uh we expect this of you you know you got all these images in your head uh what what's going to happen if I don't listen to these guys you know it's I I wanted to ask you something and maybe you can clarify this for me what's the actual term mean on the shelf on the Shelf is when you did something that was a violation of the rules or policy you did something and you were stripped of your if you were a captain your captaincy if you were Soldier you were stripped you weren't going to get killed right cuz in that life you die for certain things absolutely but you're no longer H you're no longer part of the life so you're on the Shelf you don't get respect you don't get regarded that's it was Joe banana on the Shelf yes Joe Bano was told straight out you either leave New York and don't bother us anymore you're on the shelf or you're going to die because of what he did at the time so because he was a a boss out of respect they led him and he was one of the original was oh absolutely one of the original guys very powerful but you know he tried to uh back in the boss at the time it was a bad deal but they let him live out of respect okay um but he was went out to Arizona that was end to that but uh and I know I know a few instances where where guys were put on the Shelf yeah you know it's it's you know I I struggled with I don't know what you went through when you stepped away from that life you know I struggled for a couple of years with I felt like Sunny Barger and I were in this power struggle and I reached a point in time when I thought maybe it's best for everyone concerned I'll walk away you know I went to the meeting uh uh told told the club what I was going to do I had left and I was in good standing is what we call it there you leave in good standing and 2 weeks later I get the phone call you know we've Revisited your uh status you're out bad no contact and anybody that talks to me in Jeopardy I mean they can get in trouble they could lose uh their patch and I'm not going to get way off into it but you know you talk about people losing their lives I mean we have a history in the 70s I don't know if you know a lot of Hell's Angel history but in the 70s I mean there's a string of uh what the police call in-house killings that they remain unsolved you know and well George if I would have went into the room and say hey guys I'm going to hang it up I wouldn't be sitting here right now I wouldn't have left the room they would have that would have been over with so did you experience uh you got called on the carpet or you just slowly uh no well walked away yeah it was a it was a plan I had George that's the reason I took the plea cuz my plan was now are you not allowed to take a plea no you're allowed I don't know where that room that's a so many guys took a plea I mean it's ridiculous yeah some but people on again social media oh you're not allowed to take a plea that means you're a snitch thousands of guys take pleas it's just common sense so that's not true but I took a plea when I took a plea they were congratulating me Michael you only got 10 years I had a $15 million restitution I had 5 million of forfeitures and I got 10 years they were saying don't even take your shoes off you know what a deal you're not going to get yeah it was great you know that's the old yeah because guys were getting 100 years 50 years it was crazy what was going on and when I saw this when they locked me up with no Bell and I saw these guys going to trial coming back 50 years 150 years I said I'm the youngest that all of these guys I beat them five times they're going to give me 300 years you can't beat them forever no you can't beat them forever and then my partner turned snitch and the gaspin so that's how the indictment came down and did he go to them or did he get in trouble in this in trouble we had a compound in uh in Panama we had down there the reason we had that compound my crazy partner because there was no extradition between the United States and Panama at that time so he figured if he ever had to leave the country he would go there he couldn't be extradited I said to him his name was Larry I said Larry the government wants you they're going to get you anywhere you are they don't care about Expedition laws sure enough he went down there he got in trouble on another case goes down there what do you think the government does the FBI they're going there in the middle of the night and they kidnapped him and they brought him back to Florida and put him in there so that was ended and then he did he volunteer it or did they have an idea what was a little funny story he was uh 6'5 450 lbs big guy right the FBI told me this afterwards when they locked me up they said we brought him in the cell he saw that cut that was B this big he said I'll tell you anything you want to know about Michael couldn't even sleep on you know those guts he couldn't even sleep on he he he spilled his guts immediately but when I left it was because I just met this young girl I said am I going to do to her you know what happened with my family my mother 33 years without a husband my sister dies of an overdose of drugs my other brother 25 years a drug addict he ended up cooperating with the government testified against my father so that is true oh absolutely 100% true and he had a serious drug problem you know he was screwed up from a young age George I can't even tell you how many times I saved this kid's life that he would have been dead 100 you know what's interesting it seems to me a lot of the indictments that come out it's not because they're good investigative work someone puts them on onto it I'll tell you a perfect example when we were in Los Angeles we were hot and heavy down there uh there had been six murderers uh within 6 months all the other other guys we knew that like it was closing in on you you know you could go anywhere they're taking pictures they're pulling you over they're trying to get people to talk leaning on people and I came up with this idea there was a club called saan slaves in San Fernando Valley and I talked to animal I talked to some people in Oakland talked to the old man old man John I said you know if these guys became Hell's Angels and we packed up and moved up to Ventura they would investigate the investigation would immediately turn to the Hell's Angels that had nothing to do with what transpired right so this was like a little plan we had and they knew it and they were willing to take that uh shot we moved up to Ventura we were up there like 10 years and they hadn't figured out what happened and then one of the guys that was a bomb maker got busted in New York for drugs and they were saying yeah you're going down you you're going to do th you know how they do it yeah and uh he goes how would you like to solve some murders in Southern California and that's how they they figured it out you know of course and you know a guy went to jail uh one of my guys uh went to jail and you know one of the things that I'm interested in my my guy for instance he blew up two guys in Downtown LA killed them both uh got this lawyer was a death penalty case this is when the death penalty was on then it was off then it was on then it was off back in the 70s right and uh wounds up doing 6 years for a double homicide bombing a downtown and he complained wow I mean I don't know if if guys like uh in you know your former organization uh it's almost like they're not grateful it's like they think somehow they should walk yeah you know George he got called a dump truck this lawyer yeah I said how can you say that man unbeliev you know you know what killed us it was the RICO Act yeah plain and simple because you know prior to that act which I still believe is unconstitutional I don't want to get into reasons why totally unconstitutional but what what really happened there is that prior to that act you get in trouble remember murder was not a federal crime you know that right they couldn't indict anybody for murder it was a state crime and the states a lot easier to beat than the feds right so what happens as a part of the RICO Act murder becomes um one of the acts okay one of the predicate Acts now you can get indicted for murder what happened very simple prior to that act you got in trouble you got 10 years made parle in 405 you got 15 you're out in seven nobody has a problem with that you know we expect that you're going to do it you like we said you can do it standing on your head it's not a big deal right now the RICO Act comes in one count you can go down for 20 years no more parole you're doing 85% of your time so you get 20 you're doing 17 and a half and what about the paper behind you plus plus they if they prove you put $1 into buying your house one illegal dollar they take your whole house everything so now they kill you financially they kill you with time they destroy your family so what happened was the fed's very simple hey you want to talk to us if not you're going to spend the rest of your life in jail we're taking everything you got in your family you're done you're finished but if you want to cooperate with us you'll be out this guy's going away forever don't worry about it we'll give you some money we'll put you in a program that's it guys didn't stand up under that right so many guys became informants and that was it you know look they don't want to go to jail and and I don't want to get into the you know ideology of an informant or anything like that but but people don't stand up under that and then what happens you start hear well the life didn't treat me right and they didn't do this hey we knew when we were got in what we were getting involved in it's you know ab and the things go wrong of course they do we're Street guys is they backstabbing at times of course but that's part of the life you sign it up for for that you a lot of jealousy yeah oh a lot of jealousy yeah the jealousy was just lot a lot of a lot of treachery in in the life but you know I don't I don't want to knock at all because there was a lot of good guys that I really liked in that life and you know that Brotherhood many of us took it seriously right you know you know you know I saw something I'm going to tell you a little story here and like in in Ventura we ran that town like with an iron fist I mean it was our town the cops knew it the mayor knew it the City fathers knew it uh but we were fair to the public you know we didn't uh prey on anybody uh stop some G violence uh driveby shootings and what made it a rule you can't do this you can't do that uh and how strong were the families in New York because I have a story that's really interesting uh they seemed that anybody that was a ma guy in New York had a lot of way uh is that correct absolutely yeah and I'm going to tell you a little story I went I had my Hell's Angel stuff on I went to a restaurant one night on malberry street I was supposed to meet I'm not going to say who he is he's supposed to be a Copo I met him uh through legal you know got him a lawyer and blah blah blah uh became friends with him and uh you know he'd visit me and VOR I'd visit him in in New York and I walked into this restaurant one night and I said to the morer d i I'm came here we're going to eat tonight and the the guy the Mater de looked at me and I met Hill's angel stuff on and he was so rude to me I mean I couldn't believe how rude he was and then walks in this gentleman who I you know reputed captain in one of the families and he comes up and he kissed me on the cheek everything changed oh my God and I'll tell you what happened at the end of the night I mean they put us right in the front and they brought a table out just like in good fellas and they set the table up and we sat down and we ate and when we left the Mater D came up to me and said thank you for not complaining to Johnny cuz Johnny I said his name but anyways he he he uh said how they treating you in here and I looked at the Mater de and I go they're treating us good and uh but he came and thanked me at the end of the night he was just so worried that sure I was going to spill the beans on him and I just thought it was very interesting no that that was my life you know we we got treated well and in turn you treated the people well it was that absolutely it was a two-way street it was two-way street but I got to ask you this I had two incidents I would say with biker group right one senior moment I don't remember if they they were based in Long Island I had a nightclub out there big club and um I don't remember Hills angels I don't think so I don't think I think it was either the Mongols or the Outlaws if if possible I I could be wrong George I don't remember anyway they got a little out of hand I wasn't there and our bouncers got in with them and they shot up our cigarette machines on the outside just shot them all up right so I was pretty upset about it obvious and uh we straightened it out and got in touch with one of the group and and the two guys that shot it up got they paid for it they they got in severe trouble and after that everything was calm I said you guys are invited back into place but I don't want to see anything like that again it was all great right it worked out that was one incident they were very respect respectful you know unlike in Good Fellas when I got a little crazy yeah I I didn't like that yeah that was good that was bronxdale was I mean bronxdale I'm sorry yeah bronxdale thank you for correcting me and those were Hell's Angels they were played those that part in there yes well I love Chaz he's a good friend so but I love that line now you just can't leave that was great yeah that was a great line that was a great line but the second time is and and you know this F I was uh in MDC the federal jail with Chuck Zito sure I know Chuck and that was back in 85 yeah 85 been in Japan and they in Japan yeah I don't remember if I was sell if he was my cellmate or not I think he was because I kind of have a vision of him laying on the bunk and he and I talking about the whole Japan thing I think he was facing four years at the time and I got along good with Chuck back there I haven't seen him since then he kind of uh in in keeping with his image I think he's kind of snubbed me a little bit I think I I Chu if you listening I don't want to accuse you of that 100% but that's what I feel you know I don't know well you know you may be going through a little bit of uh you know Sunny Barger basically told the club you talk to George Christie you're out you know you're either with me or you're with him so it created uh some problem created some problems with some actors uh that I was friends with at a relationship with but you know what Michael I I just I let it roll off my back who cares you know honestly I haven't had any of that from anybody and I I don't know why just been very fortunate in that regard but that was the only thing with Chuck and I liked him we we got along long great in there you know he was good I seen him once once after that but we didn't really talk uh I couldn't get to him he couldn't get to me I don't remember but uh yeah it's just interesting and I you know I feel the same way I still have all the respect I ever had for Chuck uh you know I got no actx to grind with him I hope he doesn't with me but uh it is what it is you know I chose uh to walk away and I'll take whatever comes along with it you know did you guys you mentioned you know like the community I think I got the impression the community was ready to help you guys or tell you anything that was going on or cops around or look we had no crime in our neighborhoods we took care of the people you know I use John Gotti because he's the most you know uh colorful guy around people in the neighborhood loved him right you know people in the neighborhood loved me and my father no crime we took care of people you needed something you came to us if we could help you we we could because we we kept took good care of our people and they in turn loved us as a result you know we had I mentioned a couple times the 59 count 20012 2002 State racketeering case and in that case some of the things they cited were we used to get to walk to the front of the line and not pay a cover we used to get free or derves and in a restaurant and they were just grasping at stars but one of the things that was interesting we used to go to this restaurant all the time the guy's dead now so I can he had a heart attack and died but this guy Chang he was a little guy from Thailand he had Tha food and that was the only Thai restaurant in Ventura and we would all go there on Friday night after church and sometimes it'd be 15 of us in there 10 of us 12 of us eating we'd sit in the back table he'd save it for us and Chang made me laugh he walked back there one night and he handed me a note and it said there's now wire Transmissions all around the area here watch what you say really and I you know of course I passed it to one guy and we passed it around the table and everybody uh you know observed what was going on and it it didn't stop us from going there and I certainly saw Chang as a you know a great friend uh for telling us but it kind of ruined the atmos yeah you know oh yeah you and we continued to go there we didn't stop but uh we were very close to the community in ventur let me ask you you miss riding your bike I do and Uh I that was like that was it right everything and I'm going to tell you something when I went to Spain I went to had this production company you know option the writs to one of my books my it was a fiction novel and uh so I I sold everything went to Spain my marriage unraveled Co Shot the movie down like it did a lot of things which I don't you know to me as Co was the flu you know uh but anyways I was going to wait and announce it later but I'll tell I've got a bike I'm putting together oh do you yeah I got a bike I'm putting together I get it done I'll send you a picture well I want more than a picture I want a ride you want a ride absolutely okay well I'll tell you this bike is going to be equipped with a side car and it's going to be very custom and very cool and I'm going to come down here and you and I are going to that's that's a deal we shakeal absolutely and what else you got going now George well you know I I'm got my podcast uh speak of the devil it's uh Trucking away on it you know as you know it's you know it's hard building a base and uh it's slowly coming together I got a good following on uh my social media now I'm trying to drive traffic over to patreon uh I uh have another uh book I'm working on it's called crossing the r Rubicon and it's really personal interactions with uh club members and decisions I made and what prompted me as a leader to do certain things I did uh you know working on it daily I uh you know I'm just thankful the way everything turned out I've really uh really happy with my life you know oh that's good Joy you know we share the same feeling I mean I feel you know fortunate and blessed to be alive and free I you know I say this all the time and I think you you may relate to this and may feel the same way if you're a ma guy in Coen orra in this country and you die of old age and you die free you've really accomplished something it's a treacherous life to navigate and uh the same thing in the Hing in the I think the same thing I can't tell you how many funerals I went to uh you know unsolved uh murders you know and and uh that's wasn't the way things were set up initially but it you know things change things change and so I think we're both in the same category of being very fortunate very blessed we are very fortunate we are very blessed I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to uh uh talk with you I uh it's been a long time since terminal Island wow and we've both been on a big Journey let's go back in time for a minute do you remember the southyard at all did you get to the South yard no never made it there I was the that's before they had the uh housing downtown so you would go to the north yard you get a bill and uh you would uh drive to court it was a treacherous long journey it was 3:00 in the morning you they'd wake you up you'd get dressed and you'd get searched and you get on the bus and you go out to the courthouse oh so you actually you weren't convicted yet no but they had you living on that's where we lived in North yard they would take you out to do your court stuff now I had already been convicted and so I yeah you were living on the I was living in the South guy my friend and close Club brother Guy cast alone lived on the guy lived there you remember Pete Milano he was kind of the boss he was good guy there and and Sam shtino and all those guys sure Sam and I got to tell you a great story uh about uh Sam when all that stuff was going on between us and the M the Hell's Angels and the Mongols you know one of the Mongols funerals got Sam called the clubhouse did he yeah and all he said was really at a funeral and up that was it but when I got to the termal island he was there and I think him and Carlos Marcelo yeah they they were very close yeah they had got caught in a a scam to bribe a judge or something correct and and Sam was doing his time and Sam talked to me he gave me a lecture about uh you know come on man you got to have some parameters here you know had a funeral you know it was just it was like getting scolded by your dad yeah you know I was like 30s yeah and he was an Oldtimer to me too at that time but he he was he was married to killy Smith if you remember Louis Prim Killy Smith is that right yeah I didn't know that yeah he was married now you know another thing I was told I don't remember his name but there was the guy there that had he was the first black book entry in Las Vegas he wasn't allowed to go into the casinos do you remember him he had drown ass in somebody's face and uh you know it's like we talk about the mentality of you can talk about the mentality of like Outlaw Bikers and about mob guys and I remember him telling me I I yeah I do but I can't think of his name yeah he told me goes I didn't mean the blind him yes yeah he I just met the disfigure exactly he was one of only two guys that I know that were in a blackbook another guy is still alive he's a friend of mine he's in Vegas still right black book every time I meet him I we got to meet outside of the casino can't go in there and this guy but yeah I can't remember his name another senior moment but we we I mean it's 40 years there a lot of interesting guys uh in terminal Island oh yeah let me tell you something if you got to do time in the federal system that's the play the South yard of TI the best place and the gym they had at the time you know it was incredible when I got picked up in the middle of the night and they moved me out of there I was like you can't do this do I was so mad and I never made it back there you know I grew up in a ker delicatess in my family was in the restaurant business and so I knew the k your cooking rules and guy and those guys had tried to keep me out of the kitchen for months you know how you had to rotate into the kitchen and I was walking through there and the guys in the coer kitchen were like what do we do and I I said to uh the guys go what's wrong and they go they pulled the cook out last night you know they pull you out in the middle of the night and they go we don't know what to do and I I said I know the C Co your cooking rules you want me to help and they they go yeah and they went and told one of the Sergeants this guy's going to help us so I get called uh upstairs and it's he's like the warden of the food area I don't know what his title is MHM and uh he's looking at me and looking at me he says so you really know how to cook koser and you know the ker rules and I said yeah and he said to me you know I know who you are he goes you're head of the Hell's Angels aren't you and I said well you know and he goes look he goes if you can run those Maniac Outlaws he goes I'm sure you can control 25 Jews for me cuz I guess I guess they had a lot of trouble with they would demand certain things and you remember it was the Jews and it was the Muslims the Muslims yeah they they uh they wanted Fair yeah Special Fair which is a religious thing exactly and they got it but we used to get our you know Rosario used to bring a lot of stuff out of the kit and we we got we got we did okay wasn't good Fellas you know cuz people ask me was it really like that no wasn't like that but if we had friends in the kitchen we ate a they would bring stuff and I know that rero rerio would go upstairs sometimes and he would get he would bring down canned clams so he'd make a clam sauce but with but with canned clams not fresh but you know what and I tell my wife the can canned clams are better because they come in a ju it's a better sauce the juice in it he would put the juice in the sauce yes and plus you got the clams are spread all over the I liked it better anyway anyway George this has been great and I think next time we get together we have more prison stories my viewers love to hear that let do I'm telling you uh I got a million things uh I'd still uh continue to ask you we'll do it again we'll do it again George is the real deal and listen what you hear from him is the absolute gospel truth so uh I advise you to listen in patreon patreon speak of the devil speak of the devil he's got a couple of books out too yeah I got three books out I got another book coming there's a show coming out uh uh I'm not allowed to say the uh station but it's going to be six to eight episodes this summer excellent excellent and you got a great thing on the History Channel that will Chronicles is still a great uh show to watch that's it my friend thank you Michael thank you very much again okay well there you have it I enjoyed speaking with George very much hope you enjoyed that also uh you know the Hell's Angels they were a very real group was very interesting to me to find out that they're not considered a criminal organization uh whereas Coen obviously is even though uh when we take our oath we don't take an oath to lie steal kill murder that's not what we do it's an oath of silence that's what omera is but it's considered a criminal organization and really so are the Hell's Angels uh but from within they don't look at themselves that way very interesting I thought but hope you enjoyed the conversation George is a great guy and um after you see it here we're going to make it available on his uh patreon um uh platform also so that's it for today my friends how do I leave you same way never going to change be safe be healthy God bless each and every one of you and yes I'll see you next time take [Music] care

Channel: Michael Franzese

Views: 229,483

Keywords: michael, franzese, michael franzese, mafia, mob, mobster, mob boss, mafia boss, caporegime, colombo, colombo family, colombo mafia, john gotti, american mafia, italian mafia, sonny franzese, sitdown with michael franzese, mob movie mondays, mob stories, mob movie review, what killed the mafia, what killed the mob, hells angels, hells angels on the street, hells angels leader, sitdown with hells angels, hells angels and the mafia

Id: q2CxxZr0PBw

Length: 31min 26sec (1886 seconds)

Published: Thu Mar 14 2024