The Ice Type is not Balanced. Here’s How to Fix It

a few weeks ago i made a video about how i would  fix the single worst type in pokemon bug the video   centered around three different stages of changes  i would make with the goal to make bug a b then a   then s tier type it was really interesting  to work on the video and search for changes   that would make the type more balanced  without messing up the whole type chart   and while staying within type interactions  that still made sense at the end of the video   i mentioned i was considering doing another  video on how i'd make the ice tape stronger   and the response was overwhelmingly positive so  today i'm here to talk about what makes the ice   type so bad and how i'd go about fixing it in my  video on the best type combinations in pokemon   none of the top five were ice type in my video on  the worst type combination however four out of the   top 10 were half ice additionally there are only  two types that have won the world championships   only one time bug which was a scavalier in 2011  and ice which was mammoth mine in 2013. before   we figure out what we can do to fix the ice type  we first have to identify what it is that makes   ice so challenging to use before we talk about the  issues with ice i'd like to take a second and ask   you to subscribe currently only about four percent  of my viewers are subscribed so if you haven't   already i'd really appreciate you subscribing i'm  really passionate about competitive pokemon and   i'd love to show more people how great it is and  i need your help to do that to incentivize those   who are on the fence at 500 000 subscribers i'm  going to do a video ranking every single existing   type combination which is going to be an immense  amount of work though i am looking forward to it   with that being said let's get back to what makes  ice so difficult to use ice is the ultimate glass   cannon type it hits several important types for  super effective damage in ground dragon grass and   flying while it does also have four resistances  in fire steel water and ice this is still a very   powerful offensive type especially as throughout  the years many of the important dragon and ground   types have had a four times weakness to ice so  offensively ice is fine the issue comes when we   look at the types defensive relationships ice is  weak to four types fighting rock steel and fire   four weaknesses is a non-trivial amount and the  specific types ice is weak to are typically common   offensive types in competitive pokemon especially  rock and fire this isn't enough to ruin the ice   type on its own however if ice had a number  of impactful resistances it would end up as a   type which had very high highs and very low lows  the reality is that ice only has one resistance   and that resistance is to itself the ice type a  whopping four weaknesses paired with only a single   resistance makes ice extremely difficult to use  defensively you might be wondering why it is that   having virtually no resistances makes the type  so difficult to use the reason is that a pokemon   with no resistances is very difficult to switch in  as you can never take half damage from an attack   unless you have an outstanding bulk it will  be risky to switch into most attacks sparring   you get a hard read correct now obviously  not every pokemon is great at switching in   pokemon like reggie leckie for example are  traditionally difficult to pivot into that   being said one thing that makes a pokemon good is  its flexibility how varied the situations are that   you can get use out of it some pokemon are strong  despite being inflexible such as colossal most   pokemon that hold the focus item are typically  pokemon that need to be used as a lead pokemon   and the value they provide is significantly  less if they need to switch in ice as a type   isn't flexible nearly every ice type needs to  rely on its secondary typing in order to create   opportunities to switch in ice itself isn't doing  anything in that department and pure ice types   have it especially rough another way of thinking  about this is that it doesn't matter how strong a   type is offensively if it gets ko'd before it can  deal the damage it needs to while obviously the   lack of resistances is problematic it's compounded  by the four weaknesses ice has if ice were typed   like normal with one weakness and one resistance  it would probably still be middle of the pack   instead it has four weaknesses with only one  resistance meaning even if you're able to get your   ice type in safely it has a high likelihood to  be under fire immediately as any super effective   attack or even strong neutral attack will threaten  it in my over 10 years playing vgc there has never   been a pokemon that was meta that only ran ice  type attacks meaning your opponent's pokemon will   always have a move that can hit a pure ice type  for at least neutral damage so we understand now   that the issue with the ice type is its awful  defensive relationships with the other types   you'll notice that through all of this i never  talked about ice's offensive relationships why is   that ice could obviously be improved by allowing  it to hit more types for super effective damage or   removing some of the types that resist it however  there's a nuance here that makes me want to focus   on the defensive nature of ice rather than the  offensive ones making a defensive change to   ice impacts only the ice type making an offensive  change to the ice type influences any pokemon that   can learn ice type moves nearly every water type  for example learned an ice type move of some sorts   and on my typing tier list you can see that i put  water in the s tier we need to be very careful   that we don't inadvertently buff other types  just because they have ice type coverage moves   for that reason we're going to try to be extremely  careful when dealing with what ice type attacks   can do against the rest of the type chart at this  point you should have a decent idea of what the   issues are with the ice type before i get into  the specific changes i'm making let me know what   changes you would make in the comments i feel  like people were pretty much in agreement on the   bug video so i'm curious if that happens here as  well i do read every comment i get and some of you   had some good points i hadn't considered on the  bug type video the goal of the first stage is to   take ice from a below average type to an average  type the goal of the second stage is to take ice   from an average type to an above average type and  the goal of the third stage is to take ice from   an above average type to one of the best types  in the game each stage is cumulative so stage   two has the stage one bluffs included and stage  three has both stage one and stage two buffs as a   disclaimer i won't be doing anything that affects  only individual ice types like changing base stats   or buffing moves only one pokemon learns i will be  making changes that affect multiple ice types only   with that out of the way let's take a  look at the buffs i recommend in stage one   oh also really quickly we've had eclipse  channel going on for a while now but uh i   keep forgetting to shout it out uh the editors  done a great job with the clips there and you   could probably binge them all in like half an hour  tops so you should really check it out i also made   a tick tock which i keep forgetting to mention  too so uh if you're on there drop me a follow   we've identified that we want to start  by increasing the ice type defensively   we have two primary tools to do that we can either  remove weaknesses or add resistances for the first   change i'd like to add a resistance to water  competitively i think this change is appropriate   on my typing tier list i ranked water in the  highest tier it's an incredibly balanced type   adding a resistance to water would allow ice type  pokemon to resist a type that is nearly always   common but as it's still a mutual resistance  it shouldn't weaken water types too much   next let's talk about why i think this makes  sense thematically i want to preface by saying   that my degrees are in economics and computational  modeling and data analytics and science has always   been one of my weakest subjects still let's  talk about why i think it fits dramatically   if you put a bucket of ice in the ocean obviously  it's going to melt and nothing is going to change   however if you put a bucket of water on an  iceberg it's going to freeze and actually   increase the mass of the iceberg therefore to me  it seems that when it comes to ice against water   the winner is whichever was greater in quantity in  general i think it's a fair assumption to say that   most moves should be of a smaller scale than most  pokemon i therefore would argue that this change   makes sense as it follows the rule i made up that  whichever quantity is larger i'd like to highlight   a few pokemon i think benefit from this change  first obama snow the hail setters in general have   had way less play than any of the other weather  setters in large part because ice tapes are so bad   with this change i think about snow could serve  as a very good counter to rain and metagames where   rain is a popular archetype with a new four times  resistance to water and a grass secondary typing   abomasnow can switch in on water type attacks and  turn the rain to hail further hurting water type   pokemon as an example in vgc 2021 series 8 and  series 10 a popular archetype revolved around   kyogre the team was typically kyogre tornadus  reggie alecky willowboom or mungus serena and one   more often in cinerare obamacare was already able  to resist nearly every pokemon on that team and   threaten many of them with super effective damage  despite this obama snow wasn't used in large part   because it couldn't switch into kyogre's powerful  water type attacks without taking big damage   with this change i think a pokemon like obama snow  could have had real usage as a reaction to this   kind of team another pokemon i'd like to highlight  is rotong frost there's a pretty widely accepted   consensus that from best to worst the rotoms  are wash then heat mow frost fan and then naked   while i don't think this change would be  enough to change the order i think giving   rotom frost a water resistance would allow  it to function as an electric type better   as one of the main strengths of electric types  is their ability to threaten water type pokemon   scarf and frost would have more opportunities to  switch in safely as well allowing you to lead it   volt push out if your matchup wasn't positive and  have an easier time returning to the battle later   the other set of changes i'd like to make for  stage one is to buff certain ice type moves   these are relatively small changes  but i think they can go a long way   in helping the ice type be more viable i've  selected three moves to receive minor buffs   freeze dry is an 80 base power move that instead  of dealing resistant damage to water it does super   effective damage i actually think this move is in  a good place but i'd like to see the distribution   increase to every natural ice type i'd also  recommend increasing the base power by five   next frost breath this is a 60 base power move  with 90 accuracy and a guaranteed chance to crit   i think it's an interesting move that has  limited applications but it could be better   if a few small changes were made at the moment  there's no real reason to use this move over   ice beam both moves are effectively 90 base  power factoring in the crit but ice beam   is 100 accurate and has a chance to freeze i'd  recommend increasing the accuracy from 90 to 100   and raising the base power by five this means  the effective base power is 97 which is slightly   stronger than ice beam without the chance to  freeze i'd also like to increase the distribution   of this move as at the moment only the frost  last line and the bear take line learn it   lastly icicle crash this is an 85 base power move  with 90 accuracy and a 30 chance to flinch this   move is strong but the 90 accuracy makes it really  frustrating to use i'd recommend raising the   accuracy from 90 to 100 and an exchange lowering  the base power from 85 to 80 to compensate   with these changes ice is a reliable physical  attacking stab move at the moment if you have   an ice type physical attacker you need to choose  between icicle crash which misses 10 of the time   or icicle spear which can just low roll how many  times it hits the inconsistency in the physical   attacks ice types have access to is a major factor  holding them back so i hope to remedy that with   this change we're ready for stage two with these  changes as a reminder stage two has all the buffs   present in stage one and the goal is to get ice  from an average type to an above average type   here's what i came up with we've buffed some of  our ice type moves and added a resistance to our   type and if these changes have been successful  we'll hopefully have brought ice up from a below   average type to an average type our next goal  is to take ice from an average type to an above   average type for this stage i'm going to make two  significant changes first i'm going to add another   resistance dice flying with this ice has gone from  an initial 1 resistance up to 3 with our changes   competitively this change makes sense flying is  a strong offensive type especially with dynamaxx   within the competitive community it's pretty  commonly accepted that max airstream was made   way too strong and should have been treated in  the same way as max ooze and max knuckle with a   lower base power cap by adding another resistance  to the flying type we would bring ice up while   bringing flying down which should be a healthy  change next i'll explain why this makes sense to   me thematically ice is already super effective  on flying which makes sense intuitively as snow   hail and ice make it more difficult to fly  many types resist the types they hit for   super effective damage which is my first point  my next one however is a bit more original flying   is resisted by both steel and rock which behave  as elements very similarly to ice ice is pretty   much just rock made out of water so there's no  reason why it shouldn't resist flying if rock does   if anything i think there's more of a case to be  made for ice resistant flying compared to rock   as environments where ice is typically found are  often associated with blizzards with strong winds   such as tundras blizzards and snow storms many  flying type attacks are associated with strong   winds so i therefore think this change is not a  huge reach thematically with this change i think   there's a few pokemon that become a lot stronger  first is frosmoth frosmoth has in my opinion   the absolute worst type in the game but with  these changes it would become a lot more viable   frostmoth has an ability called ice scales which  halves the damage it takes from special moves   it's an incredibly powerful ability that is only  really balanced by how terrible frost moth is   this change would eliminate frosmod's flying  weakness and while it would still have two four   times weaknesses and a weakness to steal it would  fare much better against anything not carrying   moves with those types i think in the right  format with the added resistances to water and ice   frost moth could be viable the other pokemon  i want to call out that benefits immensely   from this change is mama swine in generation  eight mammoths one got an enormous buff thanks   to oblivious becoming immune to the effects  of intimidate manoswan is the only ice type   pokemon to win the world championships but it's  barely seen any play outside of that tournament   with this change i think mammoth swine could be  a real contender in formats like our current one   mamasan was used in 2013 as an answer to  thunderous and landorus but in sword and shield   both thunders and landorus have access to fly  which when dynamaxx becomes a very powerful attack   with an added resistance to flying members want  to be an extremely efficient answer to thunderous   landorus and incineroar and could even be useful  against pokemon like willowboom and amungus   the other change i would make in this section  is out of everything i proposed in this video   my personal favorite as our second major buff for  stage 2 i would make it so that ice types gain a   50 defense increase when hail is active let's talk  about why i think this makes sense thematically   first there are four different weather conditions  in pokemon sun rain sand and hail sun and rain are   posed as opposites rain makes fire attacks weaker  sun makes water attacks weaker this is further   emphasized by kyogre and groudon legendary  pokemon from generation 3 where the primary   lore is their conflict as two competing forces of  nature it's not a stretch to think that for many   people including myself sand and hale are also  thought of as competing weathers as the remaining   two of the four total under sandstorm rock type  pokemon get a special defense boost of 1.5 times   this is a pretty major buff if you've watched my  type videos you might notice i never really rag   on the rock type and to be honest it's largely  because of this mechanic rock as a type has a   number of weaknesses but the effect of sandstorm  makes it easier to use them defensively as it's a   big increase to their natural bulk giving ice  tapes a 1.5 defense boost in hail would make   them feel more like the counterpart of rock than  they do right now i think it also makes more sense   thematically than rock types gaining a special  defense boost ice tapes are presumably made of   ice and if it's hailing outside you can imagine  there would be more ice on them to get through   or that they could reduce some damage by  replacing any ice that fell off their bodies   with more from the environment i'm not going to  pretend like it's the single most obvious change   one can make but i do think that there's a  case for it thematically at the very least   next let's talk about this change competitively if  you will allow me to be a bit dweeby for a second   i want to talk about a hidden concept in  competitive pokemon in pokemon there are   diminishing marginal returns to additional stop  points above a certain level in vgc cartona's most   common item at one point was assault vest despite  it having a paper-thin special defense stat on the   flip side cortana almost never ran choice band  or life form despite its monstrous attack stat   the reason is basically adding an additional  point to an attack stat of 200 is a 0.5   increase whereas adding a point to a special  defense stat at 50 is a two percent increase   i bring all this up because many good ice type  pokemon already have a high defense stat which   means there isn't as much value for them there's  also a class of ice types like revile and gallary   and armanitan who might not survive strong  physical attacks even in the hail due to how   frail they are i'm a bit worried about this change  being too strong but after looking at the list of   ice types i think that this change primarily  affects ice types that need help to be viable   this buff is obviously dependent on hail which  can be difficult to set up especially if you   don't have a pokemon with a snow warning ability  even if you do set hail up many teams in many   formats carry a pokemon with weather changing  abilities such as drought drizzle or sandstream   with existing counters already in the game i  hope this change would not be overwhelming while   still being quite strong let's talk about a few  pokemon that benefit immensely from this change   first alolan ninetales nine hills has a lot  going for it but aside from the 2017 format   has really struggled to see play ninetils was  able to set aurora veil for its team and has   great offensive typing but struggles due to its  numerous weaknesses and relative lack of bulk   with this change i think ninetales could  see much more play due to its increased bulk   as an example in the 2019 format a common  core was groudon xerneas and venusaur   with this change ninetails could threaten groudon  and venusaur offensively with ice type attacks   switch into groudon with more ease due to its  increased defense stat and set aurora veil to   help its teammates survive xerneas attacks  better it could also remove the sun via snow   warning ability weakening groudon's fire type  attacks and turning off phenosaurus chlorophyll   speaking of restricted formats another pokemon i  think could benefit immensely from this change is   curom specifically kiram white for those of you  who don't know a restricted format is a format   where certain legendary pokemon are legal on your  team but only one or two of them depending on   the rule set kirim is almost always an incredibly  fringe and niche pick not because it's inherently   weak but because the power of pokemon like zation  primal kyogre prime groudon calories ghost and   xerneas is just much more impactful most of the  time with this change kirum could more readily   take advantage of its huge special attack stat due  to the increased bulk and could justify pairing   with a snow warning user to allow it not only  access to reliable and powerful blizzards but   also increased bulk in the dynamex format curium  can even set its own hail up via max hailstorm   with these changes i think ice would end up as  an above average type ice type lovers could say   we vile as it may seem to those who despise the  ice type with stage two complete we're ready to   move on to our final stage with the goal of  making ice one of the best types in the game   alright uh i want to preface stage three by  saying that i may have gone a little overboard   in my video on how to fix the bug type i got a  fair number of comments saying they didn't think   that i had done enough for bug in stage three  to make it overpowered and that even with my   changes they didn't think bug would be one of the  best types in the game uh let's just say i don't   expect many comments like that on this video for  this final stage i have two changes to propose   both of these changes would be impactful  on their own but remember that all stage 3   buffs also stack with stage 1 and stage 2 buffs  now let's talk about our final round of buffs   first ice types are no longer weak to fire i did  some googling here and found some uh interesting   threads again i do not have a science background  so maybe this is balogna but i'm going to explain   why i think this makes sense fire needs three  things in order to burn oxygen heat and fuel   ice is capable of lowering the heat fire needs  to burn similarly to the size logic we use when   talking about ice resisting water we can make a  reasonable assumption that most i say pokemon have   more mass than most fire type moves while i don't  think i should resist fire i do think it should no   longer be weak to it this also makes sense for ice  competitively without significantly worsening fire   we established going in that ice has a number  of weaknesses defensively mainly its lack of   resistances and numerous weaknesses we've been  adding resistances thus far but this is the first   stage where we're removing a weakness this is  our last defensive change for ice and it takes   it from an initial four weaknesses one resistance  to an approved three weaknesses three resistances   i'd like to highlight one pokemon in particular  with these changes weevile weavile is a pokemon   that is typically filled the glass canon archetype  it's faster than average with poor defensive   typing and threatening offensive abilities weavile  almost always holds the focus sash as ice and dark   combined with its poor natural bulk have not been  the best at keeping it alive with these changes i   think weville would have more freedom in the item  it could use by removing a weakness and adding new   resistances weaving might be able to stick around  for more than one attack weavil might have been an   interesting pokemon in a format like 2015 with ice  and dark attacks in combination with low kick that   format was full of landorus and thundurus as well  as pokemon like cresselia heatran amungus and mega   kangaskhan weavil is able to hit all those pokemon  for super effective with ice dark and fighting   and with more staying power players might  have actually considered it for their teams   this final change is the one i'm honestly  most hesitant about for our last tweak i would   remove the resistance of fire to ice i've already  explained a bit about how i think the interaction   between fire and ice could do with a re-evaluation  from a thematic perspective so i don't want to   harp on it too much here but there's one more  point i'd like to add if you send an ice move   at a fire type assuming the mass of the fire type  is bigger than the mass of the ice move as usual   the ice would simply melt and now your fire  type is being hit by a water move now i don't   think i can justify fire being weak to ice from  either a thematic or a competitive perspective   but i do think you can make a case that ice could  be neutral this would be a fairly enormous change   competitively when you consider that with our  changes every ice templar is freeze dry only   ice and steel are able to resist freeze dry and  only water ice and steel are able to resist ice   this makes me incredibly nervous i thought i'd  save the best for last when talking about ice   types that could benefit from this change  calorics ice is the single most powerful   ice type ever created and with these changes  this horse would be a force to be uh unloaded calorics ice is only legal in restricted  formats and although it hasn't seen too   much play competitively i have a feeling all  these buffs would change that calorics has   an incredibly powerful attack in glacial ants  a spread ice move with an enormous base power   giving calorics additional resistances additional  bulk inhale fewer weaknesses and the ability to   hit fire types like incinerator for neutral damage  would likely be overwhelming in short i think if   every change i suggested were adopted calorics  might become the single best pokemon in the game with that my full list of buffs  for the ice type is complete   i hope you enjoyed the video i'm not sure if it  was apparent but i put an especially large amount   of thought and effort into this video so i hope  you found it worth your time other than the 500   000 special of ranking every type i'm not  entirely sure which video i'll do next   my two main ideas are either to talk about how to  nerf the fairy type or to do a video on how dragon   fell from being the best type in the game when  ferry was introduced if there's another type you'd   like to see me take a look at next instead however  let me know in the comments thank you for watching

Channel: WolfeyVGC

Views: 939,517

Keywords: Wolfey, Pokemon, VGC, Wolfe Glick, Competitive Pokemon, Pokemon VGC, Pokemon Sword and Shield, twitch, twitch streams, pokemon nuzlocke, nuzlocke, pro gamer, gaming, gamer, hardcore nuzlocke, smallant, ludwig, pokemon challenge, pokemon challenges, alpharad, ice type, worst pokemon type, worst pokemon dual type, best pokemon type, wolfeyvgc type, wolfe glick type, ice type pokemon, pokemons worst type, pokemons worst defensive type, wolfe glick cheating, wolfe glick hacked pokemon

Id: Ougeds5Y1zY

Length: 23min 17sec (1397 seconds)

Published: Tue Jan 18 2022