Peterson, McGregor, Badham share debate on gender, feminism | Q&A

the West is fundamentally best characterized as an oppressive patriarchy which isn't absolutely it's absolutely observed proposition and that as a consequence whatever actions they might take that are forthright and ambitious in terms of participating in that system are bye-bye by the very nature of the system destructive it's very difficult for me to understand how anybody can be properly motivated if that's the fundamental view of society and male participation in it and I don't buy any of that I think the idea that the West is fundamentally an oppressive patriarchy is an appalling idea and the notion that the proper way to view history is as a battleground between ethnic identities or identities in general or between men and women is it borders on the pathological and so maybe it exceeds just merely bordering on the pathological the worst violence you know can be the violence of the mind and I think men today in our society are told you know from virtually from the young age to now and when they grow up that they're they're doing the wrong thing that they have done the wrong thing historically that there's no place for them and I think that's what Jordan speaks to a lot of young men and look I'm the father of three young boys under five and you know reading a lot of John Pearson's works through the book I can understand why people want resonates with a lot of people because men today have lost their identity and and I think feminism has become a movement to overtake masculinity and let's look at the empirical evidence so it's got the parallel in our schools it eats boys who are falling behind now actually in primary schools it's boys who are falling behind at universities it's young men who are suffering and have the worst mental impacts it's the the highest war rates of youth suicide you know it's a serious issue and I think you know the question is right I mean yes there's a lot of disenfranchisement in the world but there is there are movements persecuting men in today's world it's almost as though we're talking about a structural issue and you're talking about a personal issue and people who take personally the idea that we need to change structures I think I miss misreading what the complaint is that people have and so for me the problem that I have with kind of structural rigidity of gender roles for men and women is that they hurt men and they hurt women they hurt both they hurt the men who want to stay home longer with their kids they hurt men in real physical ways because we do have a problem in this country where women are more likely to be violent the victims of violence at home men are more likely to be the victims of violence in public but in both the common factor is it's men committing the violence Bart by and large not exclusively but by and large and so these rigid kind of ideas of masculinity heard everyone and so when we talk about feminism when we talk about changing those structures its to create an equality for the benefit of everyone and to get rid of some of the things that hold everyone back the fundamental truth we need to grasp here is that men are not oppressed because they're men men will be oppressed in their lives for all kinds of different reasons they might be oppressed because they work in class they might be oppressed because of their ethnicity or their religion or their age or their sexuality or their ability status but at no point in human history have all men being judged oppressed disenfranchised kicked out of institutions on behalf of their maleness there just has not happened what has happened in the West is that we developed democracy and democracy actually meant the enfranchisement of all of us it means the conversations about what society looks like what manners are what behavior is what courtesy looks like has changed because it's not one group making that decision anymore and I understand that that's a difficult transition for people who've grown up with narratives where those decisions and those institutions belong to a very narrow demographic of people's which by the way never included all men that it's difficult to get your heads around a new way of behaving and engaging but it's necessary because we are actually a community we are one society we all have an equal right to participate and taking bait from internet misogynists on the oppression of men is is not a conversation that I get into I've been on the internet too long to fall for it men are not oppressed as a general group and my sympathy to any man who does feel a predator in any other part of his life the point van made is very difficult to argue with in the sense that Paul started a level playing field it's no coincidence women have only been largely voting participating in democracy in Australia in the 20th century now is that a total lack of intelligence capacity or fairness or I don't know it strikes me that you only have to look at most of those metrics to realize that the the empowerment of women the emergence of women from life beyond child-rearing and this is not to derogate child rearing at all it's a foundational vital foundational institution but as women's horizons have expanded in a finite number of opportunities some men have lost out especially with autumn as we as we've automated the expansion of technology that has removed a huge amount of emphasis on on traditional masculine attributes of physical strength and and so on the workplace has changed it's a fluid dynamic environment men are feeling threatened by this and there is a sense that some men are translating it as they're losing what I tell people consistently is that they have to look to themselves and it's not because I believe that people are in full control of their lives you know we're all subject to bad breaks and sometimes to terrible luck but your best bet is to do what you can to take care of yourself properly to treat yourself like you're someone responsible for helping which is rule 2 by the way partly because I do believe in this ancient fundamentally Western idea that people are of intrinsic value I mean look we're all given the sovereign right to organize our own States the responsibility to vote or our state or very state assumes that you have the wisdom to keep the ship of state sailing straight and it's because there's something about you that at least in principle has the possibility of being remarkable if it can be manifested and I'm reminding people that that not only do we believe that but that it seems to be true and it isn't obvious to me that there is anyone or there has been anyone for the last four or five decades let's say who's done incredible job of drawing a relationship between the meaning and life that you need to sustain you and respond ability and not just for you it's not an individualistic idea it's responsible for you responsibility for you and your family coming up to enter your community that'll do the trick and your society the bigger issue is looking at disenfranchisement people are disenfranchised if you're being sold that it's feminism and movement for equality that's never thrown a bomb that's never picked up a gun that's disenfranchising you or globalism or socialism we have not lived in socialist economies in the West in a very long time it's been four decades of neoliberalism and it's neoliberalism which has smashed communities it's neoliberalism which has made consumption and material acquisition dominant values in society if neoliberalism that has destroyed the workplace and made jobs insecure and made our experience of economy so unstable if people are feeling disenfranchised if men feel disenfranchised please let me reassure you that women feel disenfranchised as well because we are all living in this destabilized economy and we are all suffering from that kind of consumer ideology I think it's a lazy term identity politics all politics as identity politics parties campaign on identity it's it's whether they say we're a party of individual freedom that's that's an identity it's a concept the idea that identity is purely costed around you know rainbow politics or feminism or race and and again I sound like I'm having a better try and I probably am because I'm torn on this I was a bloke this day seven years ago so I've been on both sides I don't believe I was toxic as a guy but I you know I could go back through my career and have plenty of times I didn't cover myself in glory locker room talk the whole lot so I'm not gonna you know I'm not going to pretend that were land a level playing field but likewise I just think this this identity politics thing now is a lazy slogan that's eliminating real differences and politics is about these symbols and it's a terrific laurel here having this disagreement tonight because that's the great strength of the West is that we do this in public that no one D platformed this gentleman which would have been reprehensible and I'm thrilled that we're here having this discussion [Applause]

Channel: ABC News (Australia)

Views: 596,493

Rating: 4.7635126 out of 5

Keywords: Australia, Q&A, controversy, feminism, toxic masculinity, 12 rules for life, Dr Jordon Peterson, transgender

Id: qnvsgtt3Xn0

Length: 9min 9sec (549 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 25 2019