No Crank, new starter, how to troubleshoot, any car! (2011 Ford Taurus)

hey guys Happy New Year this is my first video of 2018 I am at Latour Zotto in South Park Pennsylvania where I shoot a lot of my case studies and the first vehicle we have for this year is a 2011 Ford Taurus and the complaint is an intermittent no crank history of the vehicle it's already had a starter replaced and it looks like it has some new cables put in it maybe a new battery we just pushed it into the garage battery was dead put a jump pack on it or a charger on it and of course turn the key fires right up I don't know if this is ever going to make it to production but I'm gonna try I always tell all of my students at the Technical College I teach at little plug for Rosedale Technical College Pittsburgh Pennsylvania I always tell my students if you can't duplicate the fault you can't fix it so we'll see how this goes right now the vehicle is cranking and starting let's start with a visual inspection very first thing I noticed is well number one it looks like the battery has been replaced recently hard to tell there is some corrosion on that hold down so maybe not but it does have a newer positive battery cable somebody had cut the harness and I've never really seen this kind of connection before some type of a heat shrink wrap that's on here and you see that it's melted the side of the air filter housing and look at the thickness of the main cable the factory cable so just down to the right is the factory cable it has some just some tape around it but you see how fat that cable is you see how skinny this cable is then there's this wrap here this has definitely been replaced this cable and I believe the heat here is because the diameter of this is too small and it created heat and melted the housing so this needs to be corrected properly I think we can still troubleshoot the car with this setup you can see this is an extra adapter that came with this cable end not good stuff here and then there's another positive cable here this terminal has been replaced I don't like it at all and this looks like something aftermarket attached here not good things need to be corrected I do not believe that this will cause any of our issues this was in an attempt to fix it in my opinion but just wanted to point that out something else I forgot to share with you guys there was an issue after the starter replacement and I'm gonna need Pete to come back to verify this it's been a few weeks since he told me about this but when the starter was replaced and they finished they connected the battery terminal and either the car cranked on its own or they started it with the key and then couldn't shut the car off it was something along the lines of that and it made me start thinking about the ignition switch just based off of the symptoms alone and guys that's as far as I've gotten I don't know codes on this if there are any again the car came in battery was almost dead I'm just hoping we can duplicate this the issue and mainly for us is the no crank the customer after the starters been replaced and somebody else did some battery terminal stuff Pete knows nothing about that the customer still continues to have this intermittent no crank situation with this car so let's see what we find alright while we're here and we have the opportunity to show this umm I don't believe this ties into what we're doing as far as a bad battery but I was just thinking well this car could have just simply a bad battery as far as the intermittent no crank however however that doesn't explain our continuing to run after or continuing to crank whichever symptom it is but let me just show you this real quick test given that this battery was dead the procedure is a three minute high charge test of a dead battery using a battery charger put it on a damn poor 200-amp start mode for three minutes and we want to make sure voltage on the battery does not go over 16 volts if it stays under 16 that means the battery is absorbing it's like an electrical sponge these the current flow and suggest that the battery is still good if that battery immediately spikes over 16 volts stop charging it it's bad replace it let me show you alright right now I have this set on a 60 amp what I'm gonna do is put it on a engine start 250 at me you don't want to do this for long but let's do it see what we got see that immediately went to 16 but I had been charging this at 60 for about 15 minutes or so so not a valid test here guys this needs to be only done on a dead battery you can't do this fast charge test on a battery that has some charge in it I think I'm saying that correctly so even on the ATM boost mode you can see that we're going over 16 volts this is right now set to a 60 amp I don't like that that this is already going that high even on a 80 amp boost but again the test is only valid on a dead battery so not a great test for us I'm still suspecting that this battery could have an issue as well but I don't believe that that's our problem okay people let's identify this vehicle there it is 2011 3.5 liter v6 alright doing a code scan of the whole system immobilizer unit ECM communication error is certainly going to give us a no crack let this go it's still detecting modules here oh and if you guys heard when I turned the key on the clicking going on in the - that sounded like a temperature blend or to me these use electronic motors that move the mode door and it's sitting there ratcheting something messed up with the mode doors but we have an immobilizer unit ECM comm error code that gives us some direction for sure the 1602 fault airbag system lost communication with restraints battery voltage code of course in the airbag system battery voltage code in the anti-theft system we have a Pats transponder fault restraint deployment indicator circuit fault that's in the anti-theft instrument panel restraint deployment indicator circuit we have a Pats transponder code battery voltage again audio battery voltage battery voltage on the display interface module battery voltage on the ventilating HVAC system alright I mean obviously what we need to start with is this Pats transponder code in this this immobilizer unit ECM communication error for the intermittent no crank but what concerns me is the other symptom and I still don't know what it is Pete's still not back yet I'm here by myself so I can't ask him but I remember again him telling me that either the vehicle continued to crank when he was done or it he couldn't shut it off it was a really weird symptom that to me wouldn't be associated with it an immobilizer issue but it's really all I have to go with right now is this immobilizer code unless of course I can duplicate this issue see if we have any data parameters that would be helpful one of the things I learned about Ford's a long time ago is low battery voltage can set these immobilizer faults I'm just going to try to start this a couple of times and see what I can make it do if anything there it is right there that's what we need I got a real dim light when I crank it hear that and then the lights dim sorry I not a real dim light but I hear of I hear a very audible loud click and I'm noticing that my dome lights are dimming it's just suggesting current flow a decent amount of it now granted my batteries weak have a charger on it this is what we needed it to do right here so let's do this wow this is a click no start let's go to the codes menu I'm gonna clear faults from from this engine computer just got to remember that immobilizer code we had oh it would be there something I learned about the snap-on unit you think I would know this if I go to the Home tab then go to my vehicle record button down here at the bottom it actually has the codes that are in here and it stores them for you so it's pretty sweet so that my point is I'm gonna clear these fault codes out of the engine computer and I was I was gonna write them down I don't need to all right so no codes present pending that's after clearing them memory codes I got a p1000 this just means I cleared the codes my monitors haven't run yet I'm gonna try cranking it again this is our issue and let's see if we have anything pending now no faults all right cool I believe the the codes we had for the immobilizer system we're just revolving around a weak battery on this car again I've seen this before but we now have a no crank and I'm by myself which really sucks I really need Pete here to crank this for me while I do some voltage drop measurements under the hood so that's the plan we need to do voltage drop test under the hood coming up all right where is my starter let's get this air filter out of the way about to set a mass airflow fault code here but I don't care hoping I can get to this starter from the top not have to rock it check out that melted air filter housing not cool at all you know our issues could be right here but Pete said when he okay cool my starters right here on the top that's awesome Pete said when he put the starter in it this wasn't here so that this customer took it somewhere else and had this stuff done that's why I'm not suspecting our issue is in here I'm gonna go right to the starter and do some voltage measurements alright I don't know if I'll show you any of them behind the scenes on that and how long it took me to set up this camera shot my starter is right here alright the solenoids right here we give you a zoomed out view as much as I can at the moment air cleaner housings here battery's just to my right right here and below the upper rad hose my starter solenoid sits here the heavy cable which is where my middle finger is this heavy cable is the one that's hot all the time we're gonna do our measurements right on the stud of this and there's a reason we're going to the stud first so the copper threads and I want to remind you guys I have other no crank videos what you're gonna see is if I put this on YouTube what you're gonna see is an icon right next to me a little exclamation point it's gonna guide you to another no crank video that was well-received it was actually on a Hyundai very similar strategy I'm applying here to this Ford so make sure you guys check that out if this ends up being on scanner Dan or premium I will put a related video in the note of this so that's where you'll find it depending on where I put this video but first check will be on the heavy cable that's this one and then just below that there's another there's another bolt and that's this smaller wire here goes down to it and that's the one that's hot when we're cranking so top ones hot all the time bottom ones hot when we're cranking we're gonna check both of those while we are cranking loaded circuit test you don't need a fancy tool to do what I'm about to show you I am using my varus to do this test because I can sync it with this and put the numbers up for you guys to make for easy viewing so I'm gonna leave my voltmeter negative lead right here on the battery and my positive lead taking off of the battery we have a charger on here too so remember that as we go all right first one will be a heavy cable on the stud itself see we have battery voltage on that 15 point 4 volts let's turn this thing down a little bit now that's a slow tards that's a 10 amps low towards now the key with this is gonna be to crank it over so I'm gonna look at this meter you guys will be able to see everything going inside the car Pete you're back perfect timing I need you to do this not starting right now can you crank this for me no it's no problem I was ignoring you probably okay listen while before you do this test we're we're live here we got your voice on camera when the starter was replaced it continued to crank or it cranked automatically as soon as you connected the battery like connect was battery it cranked and the car started and you weren't as prank oh it didn't start it just cranked so the key was off you connected the battery and started cranking on its own okay and then after that everything was okay after that started up and ran fine how weird is that all right so if you guys didn't hear that the issue was after the starter was replaced key was off battery was disconnected as soon as he connected the battery the car started cranking on its own so I don't know if that that's gonna help us yet but right now this is a no crank Pete we're doing our first voltage measurement this is on the stud go ahead and crank it all right shut it off damn it I didn't touch anything try it again I had it it took too long setup this stupid camera her that sucks yeah the security light is normal to blink with the key off yeah it's not a problem try to cut more times Pete damn it see right now guys I'm afraid to touch anything and start wiggling connections because I want to catch this issue if I start moving things I'm may not the only thing I did was you know remove the air filter housing so that does kind of suggest maybe that my issue is is in the wiring in here I really didn't touch anything but it sucks so bad definitely don't like this positive cable hey Pete you said this cable was not like this when it left here oh it was mallet all right so I miss quoted you guys on on something here this Mickey Mouse cable here is one that this was on here when the vehicle came before anything was done right beat this this Cape I see I misunderstood you I thought this cable was put on after the starter this came in like this came in just like so I mean our issue is most likely than right here like that it was hot yeah the fact that well of course it's hot give me a razor blade we're gonna open this up I believe this is a really really simple one Pete and it is a classic voltage drop on a main cable this is gonna be our issue I thought this was gonna be a little bit more complex it doesn't look like it's gonna be that doesn't explain though seriously if this ends up being our issue Pete this does not explain why the vehicle would crank on its own when you first connected it up but that's not a it's not one of the customers complaints like that never happened we have never happened again it only happened once this is a computer-controlled starting system you sure the key wasn't on when you connected the battery positive yeah okay that's crazy okay I think our issue this is all live here too guys so just so you're aware I don't I don't mind I can bleep out your ass ball no big deal no it's no big deal that's what the beauty of editing I can put a little beep in there that's fine yeah you did but no big deal I mean it happens all right so I'm concerned about this let's before I open that Pete can you track cranking it a couple more times I'm gonna see if I can maybe just kind of touch this and and recreate it I want to move it too much but there it is yeah there all right hold it in the crank can't wait when one second one second but so we're clear guys my voltage right here on this battery is what we're reading reading twelve eight that's hot all the time this is a perfect example of why you want to do loaded circuit voltage drop test turn the key on hit in the crank position all right so you see we have a 12 volt drop on this system right so our problem is definitely in the cable itself between battery positive and here now one other piece that you want to be careful of you can get burned on is I'm measuring on the stud we might not have a cable issue although we know we do I think in this situation but what you'd want to do next in a typical situation before you say the cable is bad is you want to go now to the eyelet remember I was on the stud we now want to go to the eyelet of the starter this is more procedure guys it's not needed for this car and by the eyelet I'm saying we want to go on the area that is attached to the cable now not the stud because we could have an issue of this connection right here you can have an issue where the the eyelet is good but it's not making contact with the the stud itself hope I'm making sense on that maybe at the end of this I will draw the picture for you guys you understand what I'm trying to illustrate now I have seen a voltage drop on a cable so you see the difference in where I'm connected what this will address is any eyelet to stud connection issues I have seen it before Pete good crank that and you can see the same hold hold it in the crank position you see the same voltage drop okay see the same voltage drop there so that means our connection at the eyelet and at the stud is good our problem is up this way toward the battery we have a cable issue and for sure with the melted air cleaner housing and this Mickey Mouse setup that's on here we have our issue right there and it happened as soon as I touched it so let's see if we can recreate it again Pete jump inside and crank it for me and all I'll wiggle this connection hold it in the crank position all right set it off crank it again okay good all right stay there one second Peter I need to do two more quick texts and we're done change the positive cable and put the right cable on it yeah a whole cable should have been done that way in the first place I know you didn't do it Peter I wasn't throwing you under the bus all right listen guys this no I know she did that's cool yeah no let's be clear about about this the customer brought this car to Pete said put a starter in the car and that's what he did so all right this is the time where poke and a hole in a wire is absolutely acceptable we are going to be changing this wire anyway so what I'm gonna do is show you guys a measurement before this splice as long as I can make it not crank good crank it okay twelve six there let off and then after this crank it so the problem is is me wiggling this crank it all right hang on let me get this back to where up where I don't have to hold it by me wiggling this kana not helping things here trying it again again just keep trying it to make it not can't get it alright so the issue though guys you saw when I wiggled this that's where our issue was so all you would do is measure it here crank it so we had battery voltage in the crank position come down here after it and then what you'll see is that voltage drop and that means your problem is right here there's another way you could do it then you can go to battery positive with your negative lead and then you'd measure the drop itself so I could actually go right to the battery up here or use another pin and stab it here and then I could do a voltage comparison but again loaded circuit is the key I'm gonna pull this apart let's take a look inside just for a final shot and I'll be done with this this needs a cable as far as what to do Pete it's gonna be this would be aftermarket so we're gonna reuse this but this this cable and this cable are probably one unit you're gonna need to go to Ford and I'm just suggesting we change this whole piece of harness you know however difficult that may be is a different topic in itself but I think this cable goes to the Power Distribution box and then this main cable comes down to the starter itself it's not going to be cheap maybe what we could do is leave this one alone and then just change this one because the only real place that that goes is to this positive post right here let's see what it looks like let me open it up alright something else guys what created the heat here was resistance in this cable so just seeing the melted air cleaner housing was was really enough to say we had a problem here and I guess the reason that I didn't really think this was going to be our issue was based on the symptom of the car cranking after the starter was replaced I know it looks like some kind of a designed replacement piece yeah this is like loosen just kind of hang in here half of these cables are are charred it has connection problems right inside of this this is no good either I don't like I don't like this setup at all let's see if we can duplicate this one more time for the for the audience here Pete and get a get it to be a a no start what I'll do is I will go right here alright good try to crank that I've moved it enough now that it probably is gonna start every time so it all good yeah couple more times yeah we missed our window but that's a that's all right Pete all right so the lesson here guys is voltage drop tests this is the key doing a no crank situation on any car you want to make sure that you're checking the circuit with it loaded and in this case it would be just holding the key in the crank position and you know it's something that people forget to do because you don't think you have to and you have a main cable that's hot all the time you just you see battery voltage there you say all right that circuits fun no it's not you have to load the circuit I want to remind you guys again look at the description of this video you'll find related videos where I've done other know crank problems between this video and the other ones I'll have listed here you guys can handle a no crank problem on any car that you deal with does not have to be a Ford or a Hyundai or a GM it doesn't matter these are universal principles and we're gonna let this video go as it is I don't see any reason to attack the immobilizer code that we had because I believe low battery voltage was our issue there Pete you might want to suggest putting a battery in this too I don't know when this battery was replaced believe she yeah but if you look at it look at all the corrosion on this this has been on there for a little while I think and I don't I don't trust it I mean it only sat outside for a week and the battery was dead so you tried it though yeah but it's not it shouldn't kill the battery with a no crank it doesn't start light with flat yeah but that wasn't until you put the key in it yeah it's possible I got you all right so wiring repairs are needed again description to this video guys make sure you open it up and look at it you also find some other relevant information that will be helpful to you guys thanks for joining me happy new year

Channel: ScannerDanner

Views: 127,951

Rating: 4.8552876 out of 5

Keywords: engine performance diagnostics, technician training, auto technician training, rosedale tech, auto repair, ASE L1, how-to, DIY auto repair, no crank, starter testing, new starter, starter wiring tests, U003, B1318, P1602, B10D9, no start, how to test a starter, votage drop test, engine doesn't crank, no start troubleshooting

Id: U0HktTWiw0Y

Length: 29min 46sec (1786 seconds)

Published: Wed Jan 03 2018