No crank, good starter, how to troubleshoot, any car! (Hyundai)

hey guys scanner Danner here got cameraman Caleb with me got a car that's kind of torn apart behind me some of you guys probably have seen this video already in fact as I'm introducing our next car which is this piece-of-crap hyundai elantra sitting right here we're waiting for some spark plug still on the Bonneville and now we're starting the new video a new troubleshooting job while we're waiting and it's this Hyundai let's see what this car is doing apparently it runs like crap that's all I got from Pete and Hana let's start the car see what it does most likely the battery's dead we'll see got nothing my headlights on right now Haley are they that you're like super dim yeah so the battery's dead there you go dead battery of course although are they I didn't like no they're not they're just clouded up so they're not dim no actually if you put your face or right into the light so that battery is not dead this does not crank so is this a nose I thought this is a running problem Pete lied to me see if it starts in neutral all right timeout stop the presses is that the same this car it's supposed to be a running problem it doesn't start I mean it doesn't even try to start no click from the starter no nothing so now I got to go down and ask Pete what are we doing here man are we doing a drivability job or are we doing a no crack because this car does not start Pete this car doesn't even crank they're complaining about a drivability problems no start so you lied to me you told me it was a running problem they knew what sorry I think you cranked the battery this one no the batteries the headlights are right but it doesn't ok so this is a no start this is going to be a no crank diagnose it's not a no start there's a difference so for you customers out there that are watching this make sure you communicate this stuff with your service manager you talk to is the car not starting is it not cranking there's a difference they know crank is where you don't hear anything right starter doesn't even make a sound a no start would be when the starter cranks like our Bonneville that we were working on well different video but when you can hear the starter I used to have to make the sound for the customer I'd get the same reply over and over until I made the sound so mr. mrs. customer does the car go river ever ever ever or does it do nothing you have to make the sound this is a no crank problem we're doing on the Elantra but we're going to pause here for a second because we got our spark plugs back for the Bonneville and we'll come back to this thing okay hoping to do a real fast one with you guys today I have a vehicle here at the 2002 Hyundai a lon Elantra I thank and it's a no start turning the key and we got nothing nothing no click no sound no nothing check engine light is on Keyon bulb tech tells us computers most likely alive but I'm worried about battery starting system problem next step we can do let's talk around this in neutral and try it again nothing at all so that kind of helps you as a guide to the park neutral switch next step is our battery dead I'm going to starting system problems so staying low-tech I want to do show you guys a quick battery test heed guy turn the headlights on just you know write the headlights or I don't know how well the camera showing that and go ahead and crank it go ahead again alright the headlights are going out when we're cranking it but that is a design feature on this car so we can't do the test I wanted to do which is see how bright the headlights stay while you're cranking it this can give you an indication of battery condition but these lights are bright suggesting we do not have a battery problem there's one other thing we can do so when the headlight test fails what you can do is use the dome lights go ahead and crank that for me again it you see how the dome lights do not dim whatsoever this is not a battery problem alright this next step this is what we do when we're trying to help people out that are stranded or you're in a bind you're trying to get your car going what I'm going to do is I'm going to top on the starter solenoid with this screwdriver I cannot get the camera down there but you're going to have to take my word on this that I'm topping on the starter solenoid and I'm going to have my partner here head crank this for me whatever I tell them and locate this thing kind of hard to get to buy this real real long skinny screwdriver guy try to crack it is a no-go on that test that's not cool I wanted to end it there now was I hitting on the starters question I will follow this up with electrical text if we need to if I cannot prove this starter here the symptom was you just went to start it one day and I wouldn't start so it wasn't like it shut down or anything not really worried about the engine season up guys try to crank it alright so that's the quick and dirty test unfortunately did not prove to be helpful here I need to do power and ground testing next and before we can call this starter motor is being bad all right Thank You ed alright so I am still continuing to stay low techs just using a regular incandescent style test light pulled the air filter box out of the way so I could get back to the starter and there are two main texts that we want to do with any starter and that is to check the small gauge water which is that one right there and then just to the left of it there's some conduit on the cable the main cable is the heavy one we want to check that one that one's hot all the time and then the one to the right the smaller one that is my solenoid control wire or spost which comes from the ignition sway it spark neutral Switzerland all that first thing we want to do make sure the test light lights known good ground okay good crank that he's holding that in the crank position I got no light here at all go to the heavy cable let off the crank position you see that light is lit all the time on the heavy cable go ahead and crank it ok good so nothing's wrong with our heavy cable I see there's light on and off I'm just touching you on the post and then the smaller one see we're on that I'm touching that right on the terminal of the starter and we have no control there so what that means guys this does not need a starter this is a good lesson on why you don't want to beat the crap out of them right Timmy whenever the whatever the starter doesn't work after beating on it we don't want to keep beating on it because you might be missing power and that's exactly what we have because I can't really get a screwdriver in there to jump the - Tim I'm going to use my power probe I'm going to use my peepee for my peepee power probe for I'm trying to show you what I'm doing is really difficult but I'm just going to crank this up now hopefully with the power probe hitting the switch now shut it off baby I'll leave the key off for me this time so the car doesn't start I'm going to crank it again okay go ahead and turn the key on we'll let it run for a second so again good lesson on toll feed on the sorter we have an electrical problem here now we got to figure out why we're missing power down there guys shut that off and now we've also created a check engine light we shouldn't have created the check engine light I didn't unplug anything so if you have a check engine light on that is a separate issue we're not going to have a check engine light for a starting system or starting circuit so if that check engine lights on separate issue we'll tell the customer will tell Pete he's got to pay me again for that one no we're doing a no crank diagnostic we're not doing a check engine light one make sense Tim just asked me a good question off-camera about the air cleaner being off and absolutely that would be an issue that could set a check engine light but I told him that this is a map engine there is no mass airflow in this air intake no intake air temp sensor taking the air filter off would not set the check engine light and you know you mentioned airflow definitely the characteristics of airflow would change but not enough in that small amount of run time that would ever bring that light that fast if this is a mass airflow that'd be a whole different ballgame so all right guys I'm trying to avoid wiring diagrams and all that other stuff and I did hear some clicking in the relay box when Tim was turning the key so let's see if we can identify which relay was clicking oh and they give me a layout thank you board likes to give you a layout too but they don't they just number them and they don't tell you what they are all right so there's my hundred amp battery the Korean starters right this is my starter relay right here so let's pop that relay out and honestly it's all corroded it's like somebody was in here look been scratched it this is an ongoing problem somebody was in here and cleaned the contacts of the really there's crap in the box itself I'll bet you if I wiggle this it'll start you want to try that for me nothing yet okay let's swap this relay with what if it can yeah this is a five pin it's the same internal design but I can't there's no hole let's make sure you guys can see what I'm doing so it's going to swap relays here for you guys but the problem is I have a 5 pin and a 4 pin they both will go in the same spots but where the 4 pin is for my starter move this you can see it see how it's missing that center piece so I can use this one this is the main relay that I can't use the main relay that's going to interrupt power to something else most likely I don't we could try it main relay swapping that over go ahead try it yeah see I don't think we can do that I may have a four pin relay sitting in my toolbox so load and control let's before I go grab a relay let's just pretend we don't have one and how do we troubleshoot this how do we know like give me a better side of this now look at the green corrosion and you can see the scrape mark somebody was in there this one you really can see it and what I suspect is the whole internal of this relay is all corroded as well see the backside of that pin we're definitely dealing with water intrusion so the question then for you guys is do you have enough knowledge to check a relay circuit I'm going to teach you two loads or two feeds is a standard so we have load in control my load side is here and here and my control side weight is that in the saw yes and my control side is here and here so I should have one of these two should be hot when we're cranking on the control side just hold it in the crank position Timmy got let off and do it again and off so there's your control side power feet it is there and then this is standard any relay now load side we want to check the same thing typically a load side will be hot all the time and it is there's that one there and this is the one that we go down to the starter so this is hot all the time and hit the key won't matter okay okay good so we have we have what we need as far as making this starter work this relay is potentially bad there's one other piece you can do you're on good hit the key again crank it all right so that's control side power and now that means that this pin is a constant ground the opposite of it that'd be this pin here and all I need to do is switch my test light to battery positive to check that ground and that tells you your control circuits good this is the wire that goes down to the starter in fact I can use my test light also and potentially go to battery positive no there is no continuity to ground there I was thinking of one of the windings but that's on the solenoid circuit yeah that's an open contact that's not going to be a valid test for the motor but that would be the pin if I use my power probe I could hit that pin which would crank it independent of our ignition switch and I need to be careful with this power probe if I do something wrong I'm going to cook it but I'm confident in what I'm saying here this is my wire to my starter watch why didn't that work that should have 12-0 that should have cranked it so you know what that means Tim no yeah did that sir that should have that should have cranked the starter it in spite of this corrosion that we're seeing here what that means is that corrosion is most likely down inside the box that should absolutely be cranking that thing right now and it is not and so yeah that should be showing me continuity lectric motor but um when the solenoid sadiq you forgetting that I'm on this solenoid side connected yeah this there should be continuity to ground here in fact the power probes telling me there is not this box is bad not only do we have a relay that's all corroded we have a box issue here now I need to prove it to you I'll go grab my relay out of my truck and show you that even with another relay this thing's not going to start alright so I had a 5 pin in my truck and I just pulled the center pin I just broke it off just to show you as a test point if this ends up starting this vehicle it will only be because I moved the pin down underneath and if we wiggle this again we can make in the nose start so I don't expect it to start good and try it so the relays clicking and it was before but you know relays that click don't tell you what you need to know we have a wiring problem in this box can we show you in the relay - no question about it how corroded that is but the water intrusion has gotten down into this box and looks like two 10 millimeter bolts know it isn't really recommended to just grab the nine definitely woman you know I'm glad that it wasn't just a relay because you hear those guys are like wouldn't you just blow up the relay well most of them did right most of the time when you swap the relay that doesn't fix anything instead of the swap the relay crowd they don't know how to troubleshoot they just want me to do the easiest thing possible and what they don't understand is I'm showing you how to address it if it isn't the real ACK that's the stuff you're not going to find not your typical YouTube video anyway here it is Swope the relay we're good to go look we changed the relay didn't work take a few years right and that test with the power probe was actually key and pirate probe can get you in trouble if you're not careful but I was confident in what we were doing so to be clear about that pin and why I was surprised when I did my test place the battery positive on this pin the reason the test light should light is it would be finding a ground see now it's lighting see it's light in my test light the keys low but it doesn't matter if you can turn that key on this is connected to battery positive I'm finding the ground through the solenoid winding right now so it goes down that's the load side of the feed side of the solenoid winding which goes through a coil and through the motor ground and see if I can make it crack down let's get this back on there this power probe is gonna gonna also show me a ground path on the tip see is that lights green now if I load that now see the see it went away my ground went away so once I loaded that circuit it was enough heat to open the circuit back up we got a high resistance problem so you know even my test lights not like ground problem or not a ground problem wiring problem right there underneath the box in the box alright sorry about the rain noise here we got a canopy and we're getting wet alright so as you hear the rain falling in the background it is this wire right here and its own green and corroded on the inside yeah we may have a problem further downstream here and the harness there would be that wire this should be showing me a ground right now and it is not so my problem is actually not in even in the box it is in this harness and I know that because I can follow it here and it goes to this red wire here that is taped to this particular part of the harness right here and that's my main feed probably it goes to the starter isn't like Jess maybe I'm not sure but this is my this is my load side you just make sure yep that is my load side feed for the starter or load side yeah load side feed I keep saying load sign let's be clear about what I'm talking about here load side of the relay is the control side of the starter okay so I apologize if I've been messing you guys often my terminology the control side of the starter would be the S post the one that you can see in this little image next to me here that I'm touching my test light too that would be the control side of the starter that's the solenoid side the relay here is controlling power to that so our load side of the relay is the control side of the starter and then we have a control side of the relay as well so control side of the relay load side of the relay I apologize I'm getting you guys mixed up on my terminology this is my load side power supply right here and switz monthly arity battery pause this sorry battery negative this is as you can see my load side of the relay power supply that supply jumps over to this wire right here to energize the starter and again right now that wire should be hot if I go to battery positive sorry not hot that wire right now should have a ground it's getting grounded right now through the solenoid itself to ground there is no power there so I'll actually read a ground on that wire test leg connected the battery positive I just wish the polarity you're not seeing the polarity of the test light there get that in the Shaw test light battery positive when I touch a ground light should light okay a weird part about that for you guys right now I'm saying this is the load side through the starter S post this is the hot wire that goes down to the s post to the starter right now that wire should be showing a ground because the other side of the winding is attached to ground there Attis did you see that light this come on while I was talking so right now that's what we want to see but when we load it let's load it with the power probe again what you'll see when I load this that light is going to go out when I put power there because 12 and 12 right 12 volts here and if I put 12 volts here that light's going to go out but the thing is when I take this this 12 away that likes to come back on you'll see that it won't watch so what's going on is in the harness we have a high resistance problem that is creating heat actually yet watch the test light that's an awesome lesson on heat and current flow that light's getting brighter as I'm talking but when I loaded it I made heat which made the resistance even higher and that wouldn't even support the bulb current flow anymore so we can actually leave that there as a guide our problem is not in the box regardless of the relay and the corrosion that we saw that wasn't that wasn't the problem somebody else was here this makes more sense now somebody else was here and trying to fix this problem and they were not able to and that's what why we see all those scrape marks on there they found a problem but not D problem and the problem is not in this box the problem is down in this harness somewhere so we're going to do a visual inspection here and see what we can find I'll try to stay out of your way see what I'm doing kind of nice that we can see where that wire goes which is right here runs down this harness which goes where splits there's a connector right here that's the one the wire that goes to my starter is this my connection problem right here she'll write that is now try something oh all right you heard the beeping now beeping is the ground in power our problem is down this way so my connector from here here up to there is fine I still have my issue on this side of the circuit what I was just doing there was just taking my power probe and using it to complete the circuit I've got nothing no ground anymore and so the key in finding resistance problems would be areas of heat and vibration you guys that have been following me know this very well what I'm looking for is damaging the harness where where it might have been rubbing on something you know the crazy part about this is my connection I could have an issue right at the connection on the starter itself could be where my problem is because I when I checked it again looking at this image here when I checked it I was on the tab which is the place you want to go checking it on the wiring itself we would have made me put a starter in this if that's the case so in other words if I would have back probe the solenoid wire instead of the tab where I'm connected if that's where my problem is we would call it as a bad starter and it's just not an accurate test so where I connected to was most accurate can I get my hand down in there now let me do this let me plug this back in give you guys something to watch while I'm messing around down inside test light [Music] get rid of that beep you see it's still going out still losing my ground harness there and then they're right back to the starter I'm not going to get my hand in here for you guys but I'm not going to get my camera in here for you guys but um here's what I'm gonna do I'm gonna wiggle the starter connection that's what it is look look I am grabbing the connector the pin on the starter where it's connected and I'm making a break in that and watch this steady 12 come on cranks damn it that's why this connectors bad right here absolutely my problem is right at the starter regardless of the green corrosion we saw in the box you see as I'm moving that I just should be able to crank this and I can't not letting me look back that bad and try it down there again because I can't crank it from up here and I should be able to that lights off because I unplug the connector down here nope nothing wrong with the starter down there this is just the connection on the starter itself this this connector is bad extremely bad oh I just broke did you see that just Park it just broken right where it was attached right there boys and girls bad end bad cable end so is you really the importance of knowing how to do voltage job testing I hope you guys understand what was going on there this will be something I'll definitely go over with my class at the school review all the testing procedures how you need to get a connector for this and you know wire it back up it's going to be a temporary fix oh it's ugly looking ocurro's and it's gone all the way up this harness I'm gonna let ah I'm gonna let this garage owner know they need to redo this probably wiring harness section I want to finish this for you guys though so we're going to do something a little bit temporary this isn't I don't like this as a permanent fix just plug that back into the starter voltage drop right at the connector guys so now think about that what if we would have tested the wire and back probe did it would have tested good and we would have said bad starter okay want to be clear about that that's why absolutely why you want to go on the tab where we connected to for proper diagnosis know what I did wrong if you want to say I did something wrong what I did but what I could have done to shortcut this and not take this box apart was once you find that you have no power on the tab your next step should be to move back to the wire itself and then that addresses that area I didn't do that because of this location and where I am I chose to go to the box next and then we saw the corrosion on the relay right and then that changed our direction there a little bit but now that that's connected you see we have a ground again this is a power showing a ground because it's making its way through the winding of the solenoid now when I hit this it should crank now cool and I bet you I bet my test line that's not cool I'll fix that later I put the original relay back in you know what let me put this cover on first but if I put this original relay back in this cranks and the car starts heat and vibration surprisingly that particular thought process I didn't find any rub through marks that's what we usually find in the case like this it just happened to be right where the end line was that's a non insulated connector to begin with so really just kind of a poor design but it's pretty typical of starters you don't see those solenoid wires being insulated very well the solenoid control wire of the starter I'm referring to the S post so as I'm bolting this back up guys here's what this needs it needs that harness strip back that wire strip back to where the corrosion has not permeated okay so it might be a six or seven inches and then we have to replace that section of wire and another connector that's the right way to do it now we're okay right now you know in a pinch what I showed is good but this this will most likely come back within a year of a little way it sits right now given that connector I don't know anything could last longer than that I just I'm not comfortable with that fix as far as a YouTube video goes and showing you guys what's the proper way to do things and that particular one was not in I really want to prove a point here okay so I'm putting the corroded relay back in and you have everything connected this car should start let's try it from the key this time BAM here comes another storm so I got to get out of here let's wrap this up real quick final thoughts this is a moneymaker right here for you guys that are working in the field the way I would sell this job is you get a one hour diagnostic fee for your no crank diagnosis and the repair for that I'd say maybe a half an hour for a repair is to cut out that sex and a harness to wire in and just replace that piece of wire wiring a better connector than what I used and replace the relay so half an hour for that so there's one and a half hours and then when you're done right the car runs everybody's happy because honestly this is a no parts repair cost for the customer it's all labor and then you know we have a check engine light on so your next way that you proceed is you write on your repair order car runs drives check engine lights on recommend diagnosis for the check engine light and you sell another our diagnostic fee for the check engine light that's how I proceed with this car this is money right here this is absolute money voltage job testing voltage fundamentals all stuff that I'm teaching in my classroom at Roselle Technical College I've recorded all of this stuff it is on scanner Dan or premium there's a 14-day free trial guys you owe it to yourself to go to that channel and learn how to do these types of fundamental tests voltage drops I'll put some related videos in here that you guys can see some other starting systems tests we're doing voltage drop measurements and also again standard an or premium where you can watch those classroom lectures so thanks for joining me guys this one was fun I'll see you next time well there's something I almost forgot to tell you guys and that was the box the only thing you can really do with that is well there's multiple ways you can repin the whole thing but they're not that bad inside change the relay and use some some type of contact cleaner electrical contact clean or a small brush tighten the pins up plug a new relay in that's how I'd handle the Box part it's up to you guys on what you would do but this one isn't bad enough to say hey it needs a new Power Distribution box so again I'll catch you next time

Channel: ScannerDanner

Views: 2,115,708

Rating: 4.7005887 out of 5

Keywords: engine performance diagnostics, technician training, auto technician training, rosedale tech, auto repair, ASE L1, how-to, DIY auto repair, no crank, no start, how to test a starter, starter relay test, voltage drop test, open control, starter tap test, battery quick test, Hyundai, how to test a relay, how to test a starter motor, engine doesn't crank

Id: oo1SRIFIkhs

Length: 38min 34sec (2314 seconds)

Published: Thu Jul 27 2017