My Toxic Marriage to the Wolf of Wall Street - Nadine Macaluso Tells Her Story

this week's episode is sponsored by change change is the number one mentoring program that teaches you eCommerce from scratch change is a real Community with Real Results I have been working with r for many years now and have attended many of his events and Retreats across the world and got to meet members and amazing community of like-minded people Ryan works with a lot of big names in the business World helping them build online businesses and ecomerce change offers personal one-on-one support no experience needed but like anything this takes time and is not a get-rich quick scheme if you put the work in you will get the results eCommerce and online shopping is getting bigger and bigger this is a great opportunity for anyone that is looking for Financial Freedom for more information go follow Ryan on Instagram at ryanj B and he will guide you through the steps to help you get started and build a successful online [Music] business you can now follow me in all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the Subscribe button and the notifications Bell so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live and Bim we're on okay and today's guest we've got Dr n how are you I'm good how are you really well thank you you've got a book out you're known for being married to Jordan B for for w Street M Mega film I love the film myself if I'm honest yeah um but now you've got PhD and you're working with people trauma bond in relationship advice because you through a turmoil relationship yourself very toxic very abusive yes and now you've come out the other end now you're happily married 2 what 6 years 24 years 24 years something like that yeah that's a long time it is a long time we'll plug your book straight away what's your book called It's called run like hell it's a good name and just a little about that book what's that about so it's called run like hell a therapist guide to recognizing escaping and healing from trauma bonds so it's about trauma bonds what they are who the people are in the trauma Bond the pathological person the woman that usually Falls victim to them the symptoms that you get from being in a trauma Bond and most importantly how to heal cuz healing is possible yeah and that's the beauty of anything anyone can heal anyone can change as well a lot of people say not but if you genuinely truly want to work within and go deep roted trauma and pain it's possible it is possible yes before we get into everything know I always like to go back to the start with my guests get more a bit of our understanding about you andine where did you grew up and how it all began yeah so I grew up in Bay Ridge Brooklyn hence the Duchess of Bay Ridge right that's why he called me that and I was raised by a single mother and it was a great time to be young in Brooklyn in the 70s right no internet no phones just playing on the Street and I was very blessed my mother was very into psychology and very into call Young and Sigman Freud and feelings and so I had a pretty Charmed childhood very drama-free and then but I did grow up with a single mother so I needed to make money and so I became a model I think around 19 20 years old cuz I needed to make money to live and as the movie The Wolf of Wall Street shows I went to a party that changed my life forever and I met my ex-husband Jordan Belfor at that party oh you like at school I was always I loved school I'm a n sitting at the front of the class I was in total how'd you know that yeah I'm a good reader of people also that my job I was a good I love school I was a good E2 shoes yeah yeah was that not late were you close to your mom very close is that wa what you didn't want to let her down so you tried as as hard as you could yeah I think so yeah and I love to learn hence why I got my doctorate I think it's just also in my innate nature I get I don't know I get high from learning what was your relationships like before Jordan my romantic relationships oh they were typical of a young girl you know just falling in love at the drop of a hat did you crave that Father Figure did I well my dad was in and out of my life I don't know that I craved a father figure but I love being in love I love loving other people I'm a very relational person that's why I'm a therapist but and you know I was fed all those myths from Disney and someday your prince is going to come and save you all the [ __ ] you all the [ __ ] all the [ __ ] exactly what is love because obviously when you're young it's called Puppy Love but what is love because we can love people but if we love them then why don't we make changes to be better why don't we stay with them and work at it like there's so many different aspects you can look at love what is love so for me it's about the quality of connection that you have with someone and it's a real emotional bond that gets created through deep respect trust and care but there's also a second piece of love that I talk about that I don't think a lot of people recognize it's also the the ability to give the person that you love the space to be authentically who they are and not want to dominate them or control them love them with all their imperfections and flaws yeah because it's easy to love people for the good points but it's of course the hard part is accepting the bad or accepting the things that maybe aren't exactly like you right or that maybe trigger you a little bit everyone is different especially male and female we are different we do see the world different why do you think male and female are clashing so much now with masculinity and femininity always getting spoke about um I think there's a lot of things in the political milu that are fostering that too and I I just think we are very different and we're not really taught to accept and appreciate differences in people I mean how boring would the world be if we were all the same right and so you you know we all can embody masculine and en um feminine features I know that as I've gotten older I was much more feminine when I was younger and now I've integrated a lot more of my masculine being more aggressive and owning my power so and then I noticed my husband he's become a lot more feminine and embracing his feelings and vulnerability the roles have switched the roles have switched yeah do you feel that easier though because of the toxic relationship and being not controlled but you control to degree as well you're manipulated but do you feel it easier that you're in control because you know you not have the same feelings and emotions that you had with the previous marriage yeah what I find and this is also another important piece about love so I'm glad you brought this up is that I'm in my power which power simply means the ability to influence myself right that what's what it means to be empowered so I'm in my power my husband's in his power but we're not over each other we're equals and I don't that's why I wrote my book because in a trauma Bond there is a power IM balance one person has the power and abuses it so I hope for a worlds where we can all kind of embrace that way of being the divorce rates through the roof oh yes yes but that's I think also because we don't teach people how to do relationships in School Reading Writing arithmetic who gives us [ __ ] about that no I mean you need that but you need to know how to have relationships they're the found of our life they're the foundation of society I had to go to school to learn and nobody teaches us how to do it and also we're living longer right so you you know somebody that made sense to you at 22 might not make sense to you at 52 yeah so the night the day you met Jordan it was at a party it was at a party how true is how what percentage of the movie is legit oh 90% yeah because I know we had to cut a lot of [ __ ] out is that correct I think they did yeah I think it's is even more over the top than what it showed yeah I do MH so you went to the party with your boyfriend or just a date I went to my party to that party with my boyfriend and just like the movie shows like someone exposed themselves to me and I was totally freaked out and I said to him we got to get out of here these people are nuts now I didn't know they were all on Quaaludes at the time because I was 22 I didn't even know what a qualude was and we left but then I guess Jordan had set his sights on me and decided he wanted to date me what is that if someone like if you fancy a woman or like someone you do whatever you can to get is because where is the [ __ ] fine line you we talk about love bombing if someone likes to treat a woman good as well it's surely better than being the opposite obviously women are men are manipulators mass manipulators but so are women both are vulnerable I believe men are vulnerable than women that's my own opinion from being a man I believe men are more sensitive I believe women are the stronger species I believe the universe revolves around women but we need masculine energy to build the world never [ __ ] bend or break which is important but how is that then when someone is love bombing and because it's all sexy it doesn't matter who you are if you've got a man with confidence drives a nice car has a nice watch and his you just sense a presence yes and if he's been Bing you with jewelry flowers chocolates any girl majority girls might disagree because theyve never experienced that yes but if you feel that or see that is it do you did you just feel automatically attracted and gravitated towards it even though you knew it was wrong oh I didn't know it was wrong back then I thought it was fantastic oh my God it was amazing I mean I totally got swept off my feet we fell madly madly in love and it was glamorous and exciting I didn't nobody talked about love bombing all those years ago so I didn't know that it was I didn't know that it was more of a manipulative tactic to kind of really make sure I got locked in I just was like oh he loves me so much and that could have been a piece of it too but now in retrospect I I say this very simply if it feels too good to be true it probably is but do you think he knew what he was doing or was that just his character of trying to show off and pride and ego get S play where you're trying yeah I think that's who he is I think that's who he is I think how show a tactic of KN knowing that people do fall for that sort of I think it's both I think it's both cuz he's incredibly bright I don't know if back then it was such a tactic but that is who he is big grandiose in charge very dominant very aggressive yes so how did you meet then because he was married you had a boyfriend how did it all come about yes so then what happens is um he paid he he told a woman who I wasn't even really that great friends with to get me to go out to to dinner with her and that he would just show up and he made her $15,000 in the stock market so he gave her 15 grand for you to set up the date yes and I had no idea that I was getting set up on a date I just showed up like hello what was it like walking into that party what was the the house like and the cars the house you know the house was a big white house on the beach in the Hamptons it wasn't too crazy back then it was contemporary so it was very sparse yeah he had a big white testos I think in with a special Muffler in the uh driveway so who was it who pulled their peck it out oh some some broker to you yeah I I forgot who it was was it Mark Hannah I forgot exactly who it was but I was just like this is really you know as a young girl it makes you feel really uncomfortable you know it really made me feel scared initially so that happened yes that happened and how long did it take for you to see him again after that when you left the party um let's think about this probably 6 months later so it wasn't a couple of days later no no I mean I would see him around the Hamptons um but I would say six months later cuz I went to Chicago to model and then I came back and we worked out at the same gym and he said to me I'm separated I have an apartment in the city let's go out to dinner and then we went out to dinner and the rest as they say is history how long did it take for jti fall in love with him uh to two weeks so you're just as [ __ ] up as him then I was totally enamored with him yeah now we got engaged six months later and got married six months later and what happened with his wife and stuff so he ended up leaving his wife and that was very very painful I'm sure for her and even for him um yeah but I guess he was he was he had fallen out of love with her as he explained it to me and they didn't have children so it was a pretty seamless easy divorce and we got married and how were you with him every day back then because obviously the movies are traveling hookers partying was I with him every day initially when we met yeah yeah yeah I was with him all the time is that a red flag because men including myself I become obsessed as well yeah but I don't know if that's majority of men if people are honest we do but it's like men are controlling naturally I think if feel leaders naturally okay yeah and I just feel when people meet like I'm the I'm the same I just want that person there I want to spoil him like I've probably got all the same [ __ ] traits as him maybe edit that out just in case but is I Pro I probably got the same traits men majority of men probably have is that standard in a relationship because people say take it easy or whatever but when you want to be with someone is it a bad thing you want you don't you want to be with them all the time because you do suffocate it we get it but what how do you balance it out especially when you're younger you got a lot of hormones involved and a lot of physical sexual feelings racing through you you know so I think it's complex and I I don't think it's healthy to like become obsessed and just be with someone all the time because again if we go back to my definition you have to give people space right but we were evacuated and together all the time and again I thought this is just what love is when did the was he always partying then at the start of the relationship or was it more headen it was it was there was light partying in the beginning of relationship and then the drug addiction got exacerbated as time went on and you were 22 how old was he 28 still young two young kids yeah we were young kids exactly was he making good money then at the start yes he was was he a big spender oh my God there's no words for what a big spender he was and how much an attraction is that for a female If we're honest because women do gravitate towards that luxurious lifestyle doesn't matter who you are the women can come on and complain and say oh I wouldn't go for a man with money but if he's got it because any man who's got a business or who's on his feet are doing well that's an attraction automatically yes for me it's an element of power man from my own experience and like you said I don't know everybody but men women men are the leaders and protectors I believe and this and this women are ners and loving and caring yes when you see a man who's got that sense of power that money is that a turn on for a woman oh for me back then for sure anyone yeah for me I can only speak for myself personally it completely was yeah and also he was self-made right so he made all the money himself he's incredibly bright I looked at his lavishing everybody was money is at that time as incredibly generous and yeah it was fun but I didn't realize it was a trap when did you start seey Telltale SCS you know I would say it it happened kind of early and um because his personality was a lot of high pressure sales tactics even in love so he was like if you don't um marry me I'm not going to date you and I was like I don't want to get married I'm then at this point I'm 23 I was modeling I didn't want to get married till I was 30 cuz my parents had gotten divorced so but he was like if you don't marry me you know I'm not going to date you but then he UPS the Auntie if you don't um have kids with me I'm not going to marry you so it was always like the goal was getting moved and there was a lot of dominating high pressure tactics in the beginning like six months in and back then I didn't understand about coer of control and domination and intimidation and so I was just like oh he just loves me so much that's what he wants so it's happened about six months in so he was treating his relationship like a business deal also do you think with the pressure and the yeah I think that's a good way to say it I had not thought about it through that lens but yes I do think that's a good way to describe it so what's that c then with that nature of moving the goalpost baby's marage yeah that's called coercive control so that's somebody pressuring you to do what they want you to do so he wasn't listening to me I was like I love you but I just don't want to get married yet I love you I'm not ready for babies yet now listen I have two beautiful children they're my best friends so I'm so happy I have them and but that's called coer of control when a lover is pressuring you to do what they want you to do instead of respecting like okay let's wait a year or two I wasn't going anywhere MH I was mly in love so where's the line between being a protector and provider and controlling that men lead by example to then women being submissive where's the the F line of respecting your boundaries also but he's got boundaries we want to have kids he's want to be married you don't so where where do where does it meet is I case of okay we on a different place of each other it's best stepping back or there someone cuz someone's got to give yeah I think there's also can be something called compromise yeah you know like okay I hear you you know then let's get married and let's wait two years to have kids kids right or some sort of compromise but there was none of that was available it was his way or the highway but your partying also yes did you take the quids oh yeah what were they like awesome the only thing is I took one I didn't take 10 I just don't have that addictive personality not on wood I would have been [ __ ] on 20 so what is quids for people who don't know yeah so I guess it's in the itive category so it it makes you go down but it also makes you go up I can't explain it it's got like I guess you could almost say it's like a valum or xanax but it doesn't knock you out it still makes you feel a little bit alive to just it kind of make it's like Euphoria I think it makes you feel euphoric yeah what was your partying like then did your partying inhance where you with him yes yeah I'd never done a quo till I met him never but again I don't have an addictive person personality so it just that wasn't thank God I don't and how was the modeling K good hard very hard so you were still working well with him yeah I was still working but that was another thing he was like you have to quit being a model yeah that's what I was going to ask surprised he let you he's yeah no no and I was like but I'm going to make $3,000 today he's like that's nothing you're quitting I was like okay he's not understanding of what you want to do your so exactly but again you were submissive to a lot of stuff also yeah yeah so what do you call that then so I so that's what my book is about so I do a lot of research on the female's personality traits that really are perfect prey or fall for these sorts of relationships and I have two traits uh one of them is agreeableness which means I'm very tolerant I'm very loyal I'm very empathetic hence what makes me a good therapist and I'm highly conscientious means I'm very organized and driven and I will like see things to the end so even when I was with him even though all this crazy stuff was going on I was like I'm going to figure this out we're going to work this out so those personality traits which are good things which enabled me to get my doctorate right to be conscientious they're not great with that type of person they get weaponized they got weaponized against me so that's why one of the reasons I wrote my book is to kind of break the stigma and stop labeling the women as help learned helplessness and codependent that doesn't mean that I was perfect trust me I had plenty plenty of my own flaws you know maybe want maybe people pleasing or accommodating too much for sure and I didn't understand who I really was um so I certainly had my own flaws they just weren't super detrimental to him do you think it was harder to leave him because of the lifestyle that he gave you also if it was just an average working man 95 yeah no disrespect anybody who does that but yes shy car shut a house who was just struggling to get by do you think it would have been easier to leave that man instead of I mean I don't know if it would be easier but I know it was very hard for me because with that sort of money then I ended up supporting my family and um also it was hard to leave him because I feared him aggressively yeah K of K oh I I don't want to think like that I hope not no but you know what I mean but I mean yeah when he kicked me down the stairs that was backwards that could have you know killed hurt my neck pretty badly and how far into the relationship did that happen that happened about 7 years in was there any Telltale SCS at the start of being abusive you know I think that when he ripped the phone out of the wall that was probably a good sign that it he could have gotten there was never any violence per se towards me in in the beginning like ripped a phone out of the wall but his temper when you're with a person like that they have um rage and I had never really seen rage like that before because I grew up with my mom and she wasn't a big Yeller so I was like what the hell is this MH it's defin what is that with men the rage and anger is that abandonment issues what does that come there's some there's something called humiliated Fury and it's a mix of entitlement shame and anger I think I've getet that I think this is a I think this is a fairy possession for me I need to phone you didn't b in a session well here's the thing it's good to know yourself yeah I do have I don't like to shy away from my flaws I've made a lot of changes and sacrifices to then do better in life and but I'm still a little [ __ ] up all men are no matter what I do I never feel good enough oh so there's that shame yeah and always Foster syndrome and other [ __ ] kicks in but I don't stop either constantly working constantly hustling I provide for my family don't drink don't take drugs life is amazing but good for you you just I just questioned what the [ __ ] is life you know yeah what the [ __ ] is it really why are we sitting here why do you do what you do why do we do what we do it's just crazy how that's just me overthinking the full the full process of life it's a beautiful mess sometimes yeah and that's you know like existential thoughts right what are we all here for what is this all about and I go back to the beginning we're here to connect with people in love that's what we're here for I mean how much do you love your children like my children I could cry talking about them my grandson you know and I don't know I think that we're we're all here if we can to try to leave a better Legacy for the world when we leave it cuz really then what the [ __ ] is it all about when did he propose then how did they propose oh oh yeah that's that's my number one post on Tok and Instagram it's so funny he uh proposed to me in front of my favorite fast food place and she said hey rolling moster I mean at the end of the day I'm still a Brooklyn girl but it's mad though but again as much as we can slate men and talk about trauma bonding and all the negative traits like but to do that as well and think about you and your best place and other people might laugh what it was or whatever but it was more connected to you so men are men are good as well we're just a little we're a little [ __ ] up um but again all they it's hard but again there must have been a lot of love there as well there was there was and you know I want to say something that you know you keep talking about men being [ __ ] up you know we haven't taught men that it's okay to feel we haven't taught men that it's okay to be vulnerable and I do think that there are a lot of very sensitive men out there that also want to be driven and successful right and how do they manage those two pieces with we've got to get better at that with men yeah where does that stand from society what we you know societal expectations of what it means to be a man you know I mean I just think I I I feel for men in that way what was the modage like what was the when you get married you know it was it had a lot of things that create a trauma bond which is something called intermittent abuse or intermittent reinforcement meaning there was a lot of great times where he was generous and helpful and loving and kind and there were a lot of horrible times where he was control and controlling and manipulative and that's actually what creates the bond and a trauma bond that intermittent abuse and that's what the marriage was like an emotional marry go around like Stockholm syndrome well Stockholm syndrome is similar but saol syndrome is different because you're attaching to your abuser but you don't know them a trauma bond is almost worse because it starts out with Promises of Hope and tenderness and love how much did the drugs play a massive effect on this anger and frustration do you feel as if it would have been that character anyway or did the drugs just make him a different monster I think the drugs made him a monster mhm yeah yeah I mean I think he has a strong narcissistic grandiose character anyway right but I think then the drugs really took them down yeah because everybody has narcissistic traits everybody's especially most most successful people and you know there's all this word talk about narcissism which is just puts me over the edge because a lot of it's just not spoken about but narcissism as people that have severe pathology they have much more than narcissism they can be makavelian meaning they're highly manipulative they can be Psychopathic meaning they're cold and callous so narcissistic traits yes they can make you selfish and self-absorbed but I think the drugs are what really drove him to to lose it with me did you ever tell him about the drug intake are were you too scared oh no I oh no no I'm from Brooklyn I used to confront him about it all the time but I think you understand this when you're in the throws of your addiction he he couldn't hear me and I just always believed that my love could change him and I I realized it couldn't but how naive are you then to that oh ridiculously yeah I didn't know cuz I didn't grow up with the anybody that did drugs like that right so I had no clue in the TW in my early 20s you know what was this 25 years ago nobody was even talking about all this so I had I was so naive what age did you have your first kid 25 and how was he with the baby good did they ever trying because kids can kids are tough they're [ __ ] hard work if we're honest but especially if you're not in a good place yeah but sometimes I Chang for my kids I had to they need a father um but it can be difficult so did he ever think okay maybe it's time to change did they ever try and change back then was to late at on in like did no he did he did change um he's he's an excellent father my children are very close with him and so what happened was it's different than the movie I said to him you have to get sober or else I said I'm not going to sit here and want you kill yourself and that was when he like thre my clothing and jewelry and lit them in the fire and put put put them on fire in the fireplace and he was furious with me screaming how [ __ ] dare you tell me you know just went I don't even want to say it on the podcast because it's too many bad words um and and then he told me that he was taking my daughter on a and he was whacked out of his mind on coke and he ched a private plane and I was like no you're not I mean you can't you don't [ __ ] with my kids and that was when he um he he tried to drive away with her that's scene in the movie where he drives into the wall so that happened but then right after that he did get sober so me standing up to him and it was very violent clearly um but he did get sober so that was good and what happened when you had the second was it so you got two kids yeah Carter yeah so he was already born Carter was born at that point but he was a little baby how was that when you've got two kids in your scenes they failed marriage and someone's not it's just a lost soul where you can't you know your love's not enough where they're going to change how hard is that feeling it's terrible it's probably I'm it's probably one of the worst feelings in the world when you can't help somebody that you love see that drugs are killing them it's probably the most helpless feeling in the world and especially when you have two little children to take care of and I think they were a big part of my motivation to just be like you cannot do this anymore and also I didn't want to see him kill himself I mean he started to get into Coke and then that was it how hard is that for people who's in that sort of relationship where they genuinely do love their person yeah but it's 10 20 years and they can just see the strain in their face that they're in a [ __ ] relationship but how hard is it for someone to be in a relationship with someone they love they've got kids they've not really got much income they're kind of they're not stuck there because people can make changes but if you're in that relationship 10 20 30 years you tend to see people just die with that relationship because it's so far like how hard is it to actually come out a toxic abusive relationship it's hard but it can be done what are the steps to for it to be done well first of all you have to realize that you're in one you know you have to really have radical acceptance that you're in a toxic Bond or a trauma Bond and that this person isn't going to change and then you have to take the steps to either make yourself more confident outside of the relationship also get a lot of support um through friends or a trauma-informed therapist and really work on yourself because when you're in a trauma Bond like I was I was so focused on Jordan because he was an addict and like I'm always trying to figure him out and trying to figure out his mood and and so I think I what I tell my patients is let's turn the mirror back on you let's get curious about you what do you want what do you need how do you really want to live your life and and so put your energy toward yourself making yourself stronger and getting resourced financially emotionally relationally and then you have to face your fear was he cheating he was cheating but I didn't that wasn't what our fights were about like the movie talks about because obviously you get hookers in the party and this and that did you know about that no or were you just or did did you know and you just try to block it out no I didn't know about that really no that wasn't really the the big fights were about drugs and how was his were these friends were they the same or crazy yeah nuts Madness attracts Madness yeah yeah just crazy crazy people yeah very crazy people but you must have been one as well though because you were involved in it you no matter what anybody says we still make choices and we talk about trauma bonding which is difficult to break free but the Cho everybody's choices it's insane you going to that party the very first time seeing someone the [ __ ] out seeing him [ __ ] up I'll never get back there again I don't want to see these people so part of your Madness was it's it's sexy for some weird fuckinge reason I mean certainly I was young and dumb and delusional I would say that and what I'm also going to say though is that I did leave the party and he did pursue me right so I think that when I was a young girl I relied a lot on being chosen instead of like really using my brain and being like is this really what I want and so yeah I mean listen once I was in it I lost my mind because that's what happens in a trauma Bond you do go crazy and you do lose your mind did you feel as if you totally lost yourself completely lost myself completely when was the moment you realized oh I think it was all along the way it's like a slow uh I I describe it in the book like a like an onion layer just peeling off just slow and steady every day every week every month yeah I started to Lose Myself where did you get married in anguila what's that it's a Caribbean Island how many people I don't remember maybe like 200 was he sober no but I was do you have photos and stuff yes um yeah I do yeah yeah what about the one with the I know you spoke about it a few times when you're on the boat the helicopter falls off he's nearly die true is that that's very true that was extraordinarily scary what happened there was just like the movie shows we got into a Squall and the waves I don't even know how big they were but they were crashing over the boat and I definitely thought I was dying for sure I thought I was dying and I remember I think it was the Italian Coast Guard tried to save us they couldn't but then they rerouted um an Intrepid ship of the Italian Navy and they came and got us off the boat with a frog man pulled us 40 ft up how far into a relationship was that that was towards the end I would say about a year and a half was he higher on the bo yeah I mean not when we were going through the Squall I think everybody kind of sobered right up because you know when you think you're going to die yeah it was very very scary no one wish that on anybody yeah it just all sounds mad it's like in movies we glorify it but because it's acting as well we don't really look at actually wait a minute that's real life what people are actually going through the pain the misery the torment everything is kind of dark it's a it's a low vibration it's a it was a very very dark dark s existence over time what was your mom say oh my mom was like run like hell yeah but you know when you're in love and you think you know better and then once you have children and you're locked in it it's um it's hard to extract yourself out and you know we're talking about this now you and I 25 years later right so I can talk about it in a calm light way I'm sure 5 years out or even 10 years out it was a lot more difficult for me to talk about it in the movie as well who was the ant from England was that true when they were trying to ship money to I don't know Switzerland was that all true completely true was she with Jordan have a relationship no she was just a crazy lady she wasn't an aunt or anything no she was my aunt yeah she was my mother's half sister and did she die she did die yeah she had a brain tumor yeah sick so the movie was majority no yeah it was very it was accurate the the thing about the movie is that as you say they take they took my trauma our trauma all of the trauma and made it like a farce so it makes it palatable can you laugh at it yes yes didn't see the funny s or you look at it and you think what the [ __ ] what were you thinking you know because it does glamorize it does look sexy for me if they're partying yeah I would want to be at that party yeah even though I know it's [ __ ] up but it just still looks fun as well men are like you say we're vulnerable and very we take drink and drugs to heal us cover up some sort of pain that we're dealing with yeah from my own opinion but the party just looked [ __ ] amazing they were fun they were fun yeah yeah so I can but I can laugh at it because I've been in billions of years of therapy I've processed it so much you know now I've become an expert on the topic so I've what's the word I've metabolized it and integrated enough to be able to sit here and talk about it calmly but in my early 30s recovering from it was was was quite a time so you have the kids when did did it come on top for him with the police and the FBI was that another strain on your life that was about a year later after he got sober that happened about a year later so what when did he get sober I mean I don't know the exact time maybe 1988 maybe he or 1987 then he got arrested in 1988 or around that those that those years what made them get sober this time well that's what what made him get sober was what I said to him you have to get sober and he went crazy and that whole thing did he go to rehab yeah he went to rehab yeah how was that feeling for you when the person loves actually trying to make changes oh my God it was great but I was so it was for me it was mixed because I I felt happy for him but I was furious with him with what he had done to me MH in the name of you know and me trying to get him sober yeah so it was mixed for me yeah that's the hard thing do you think you could have fell in love with him when he got sober if you never knew him or it The Madness of the past who he was that was more appearing to you yeah I think you know I think um I definitely could have fallen in love yeah I'm from Brooklyn he's from Queens we both are very ambitious driven people yeah we have two amazing kids we were meant to be right so you've got two amazing kids he's got sober yeah why leave him then because like I said I was so it was so many years of emotional abuse and coercive control and then the Final Act of that whole crazy day when I got kicked down the stairs backwards and think he drove my daughter into a wall I you can't get over that I couldn't get over that I just couldn't and once he got arrested I was like okay he can't do anything to me anymore he can't hurt me he can't try to take my kids you know now he's the government's problem that must have been a kicking the balls he's got sober his messes have left him and then the FBI have came through the door yeah y do you think he would have handled all that if he wasn't sober if he was on the drugs could he potentially been suicidal as well with all the pressures and strains and stresses of Life he's really strong yeah know I get that I don't know I don't know especially with kids and stuff but again with the pressures of life in prison losing your partner it is a lot for a man yeah yeah he's super strong he's very resilient he's made the changes he's got clean up a yeah so this was s years into your marriage you left 78 years in yeah and then how was that how was it to eventually build up the courage to leave do you think it was easier to leave knowing that he was sober and he was more in a sane State yes instead of being the violent aggressive you couldn't have probably says anything because of the controlling nature that you're not leaving well at that point for me I didn't care what he was it didn't matter to me I was done with with him after how he had abused me did you then see that shift and your energy changing from feminine to masculine yeah I think that's a good way to say it yeah I and I I just was done with it like you know and I remember telling him one night in a restaurant about 6 months after he got sober how what a hard time it was for me and how much it had all hurt me and he was like it wasn't that bad and it was at that that was a really important moment in my life where I just thought that's so callous and insensitive you know you're still not having empathy for me so his lack of empathy towards me too was another reason why I was able to leave and the good news was I knew that when I left and my kids would go to him he was sober now so he felt safer uhhuh how important is it for a man to listen to a woman because we pretend to listen and like you say we are sensitive but I don't know how if we know how we show love we show different ways I'm speaking for myself but I know a lot of people who feel the same as well but if a woman's talking to you with men are silly we don't know how to accept that and actually genuinely listen and go okay what do I need to do to change that yeah I understand you I'm listening but we don't really make a joke or we'll book a holiday or there's another watch or right try and replace it with something I don't know if I can't speak for every man man but understand I'm only speaking it from yeah sure my side yeah like how does how do you accept that then if someone like you're speaking from the heart yes he's changed but he's kind of shut it down you bottled it up it's like going to someone who's abused you or whatever you try to open up to someone and just totally shut you down some people could then put that block it up for the rest of their life and never speak about it again what happens if he says okay listen I'm sorry I love you and I should never have done that would you have stayed with him or was it always done I I I think I don't know if I would have stayed with him but uh there's another piece about love that I talk about if someone can't hear you they can't love you so how do men listen better validate validate my feelings you know what na that was really hard I could see how that could have been hard for you and I'm really sorry that's it J you played it down a lot maybe he needed to for his own mind you know which I can understand but at some point the relationship can't just be all about him and why did they C you down the stairs oh because I was he was trying to take my daughter and I was chasing him that so that he couldn't take my daughter was that the worst time was that the darkest time in the relationship definitely yes and he went to prison was it 22 months yes and how was that well that happened many many many years later four years later five years later yeah I think five or six years later that happened happened for him and we were all living in California at that time um him and I got along very well and he would see the kids all the time the kids visited him so I don't know what it was like for him while he wrote the book there so he made good time he made good use of it so when you're then MTO trying to spread your wings trying to find love still young yeah um you go through a toxic relationship very abusive very controll then it's over your ex-husband changes he's a better father he's a probably a better friend and more understanding than he's ever been life's going great you've probably done some therapy you're kind of moving on with it yeah when does he say then okay I'm writing a book about my life does that then think [ __ ] you you're not really thinking for me I'm just looking from what I was say think what I've go had to go through all this and then I need to relive it how was your reaction exactly my reaction was that yeah that was exactly it that was exactly my reaction I was like are you kidding me you know but again I just was like okay he well this is he he has a right to do it I mean I can't stop him from doing it and he he sent me the book and I screamed and cried and I threw myself into bed and then my husband was like okay time to get up and when did you meet your husband after the divorce about two years after have to I left Jordan you split up with Jordan how long did it take to then meet your other partner two years yep about two years Y and how has that to get into a relationship especially coming from that it was Madness it was it was hard cuz I had to trust how do you do that H slowly over time you know did he ever party your man no is he the total opposite he's totally sober now um yeah he's not the total opposite no but he's he was older I was older um we just we've been married for 24 years he's a good husband he loves my kids he had three kids we were a modern day Brady Bunch and it was nice so life was going good you're in a pretty you come from chaos so and life as well when you come from a life of chaos and then it becomes peaceful sometimes we can get it mixed up with being peaceful and boring yeah did you ever think okay this is a bit boring because you were used to that no I like boring did you were you just happy with it I like boring in I like drama free yeah I like boring because people are so used of chaos that they stay in it for the rest of their life yeah yeah I didn't grow up with a lot of chaos though so that time was a very um crazy time for me but no no I like boring it's okay and then when when the when he wrote the book that was when I went back to school to get my Master's what was Jordan L when you met your new man he was great he he was he was my my current husband is great and he said I'm going to call up Jordan and take him to breakfast I was like good luck with that and they went to breakfast and he said I know what it's like to have somebody around my kids I want to go introduce myself to him and I think Jordan really respected that they have a great relationship yeah that makes it easier yeah it's nice he ain't doing that if he was still [ __ ] on the quads no no he's not he was very he was very glad that he wanted you know my husband showed him respect so the book comes out scares comes DiCaprio um Margo yeah beautiful but as an unbelievable movie did you realize how far it would have went but with Jordan's mindset everything he took he's always took to the top no matter what it was yeah did you realize how big his book would have went and how far it would have went when he wrot it no I could have never anticipated that no no uh and what when did you start finding out that they were're going to turn into a movies CU one of the greatest directors of all time Thea one of the greatest actors of all time I would say probably maybe a year and a half before they were going to do it I think so what you thinking again did it bring back a lot of emotions and Trauma because now it's going to go a wider audience completely completely did you have to do more therapy I did a lot more therapy huh hence why I became a therapist cuz I was like therapy has really helped me manage this crazy life I've had what was it like going to therapy for the first time oh I like therapy it's good yeah it's good it's nice to go to a non-judgmental accepting place where you could say whatever you want and you get to work on yourself yeah it was great how long did it take to come out the other end I'm still doing it 30 years later and we're still [ __ ] up I think I'm still I don't think the growth ever ends yeah that's all do think sometimes though we can constantly search and forget to live yes yes the last the last uh chapter in my book is called go live the book's Amazing by thank you because it was a great movie people then Lov the characters from it yes so it doesn't it wasn't a negative I don't know I can't speak for you but it doesn't seem to be a negative it seemed everybody's life from that movie enhanced positively yeah was that the case when it came out yeah I mean it seems like that you know when it came out I was getting my doctorate and I really didn't speak about it much cuz I had nothing to say you know and I just really cared about my kids and what they were going to think about it and how they were going to deal with it cuz I forgot how old they were but maybe 16 and 18 or 17 and 19 so that's really was my main concern and I got to go to a private screening to Paramount with my husband and so I sat down and we were like okay here we go and then when they showed us the movie I was like it wasn't that bad you it was it was good did you realize how big it was going to be no I had no idea I mean I should have realize with Jordan he goes big or goes home um but no I didn't have any idea what sort of input did you have in it zero Mar Rob's a big she's a big part in the movie yeah I met Margot um they asked me if I would fly and meet her and I was actually taking my daughter to college so I took my daughter to college and they taped my accent and I got to meet her she was so young then she was 22 the same age I was and she was she was great now that you I've spoke to you and seen you you can see the resemblance in the way she speaks she [ __ ] nailed that part she nailed it didn't she yeah she did a great job no she did a great job and we went to dinner and I I talk about this in one of my Tik toac but she was like I don't want to take my clothes off I this but I don't I don't know how to say it to them and I said you know that feeling that you feel right there Margo like speaking truth to power that's how I felt my whole marriage so think about that when you're doing your role and uh she did a great job she was so good and funny and feisty and did you see yourself in that character a little bit I mean it's not that much fun having the most beautiful woman in the world play you that's 20 years younger than you okay but she was amazing and you know how many times you watched the movie oh not that many probably four or five do you ever get upset watching that or do you just laugh now you know I sometimes like I just watched it recently and I got a little bit more upset I think it just depends upon my mood yeah I don't like spend my time watching it every day so when did you start getting into the therapy side of things and understanding really understanding you coming out the other end and realizing okay I can help others like when did you start really working on that well I became a therapist in 56 so I became therapist I guess maybe 15 years ago and so I didn't really know that I was going to specialize in trauma bonds that wasn't my intention but you know the the book of the movie came out and again I didn't say anything right when the movie came out and then what happened to my therapy practice is I saw so many women coming into my practice being experienced coercive control emotional abuse manipulation betrayal and so I said okay being the nerdy good student that I am I said I'm going to go back to the research and figure this out so I researched it and then became my expertise what's the biggest red flags in a man oh there's a lot but there can be a lot you know we talked about love bombing we talked about words not like words not matching actions is a huge one when they tell you they're going to do something but then they don't do it anybody who's trying to coercively control you and doesn't give you the space to be who you are constant lies you know that's words notop matching actions or gaslighting denying your reality when you know they're lying to you and you confront them and they're like you're crazy what's the biggest TR flying in our women oh all the same things the exact same exact same things yeah do you think men and women are more alike than people like to let on I think S I think we all have personalities that can make us very similar but I I do think that we're very different just based Upon Our hormones like I'm sure if you gave me a lot of testosterone I'd change M you know [ __ ] that like we're not giving you anything what makes a good relationship Nadine what makes a good strong healthy relationship because no relationship is perfect I've never met a couple who extremely happy what makes a good and I can listen we live in this Society where people talk about Mass toxic masculinity but we living a life of social media as well I wouldn't want my partner on social media with the bikinis and around other men and I I can't accept that I don't know what it is it's ingrained in me but I couldn't accept I'm not drinking I'm not out partying I'm not standing in the club right I don't want others my other half doing that also yeah and there's got to be is it best to put out the boundaries or or whatever it is to say going to accept that but then is that you saying that to try and manipulate them to then agree with what you're doing also so know anything you can say can be manipulated and turned around also yeah well I think setting a boundary is different than intentional manipulation right so it's always about the intention right if you're just setting a boundary and saying this isn't something I'll accept but you're not doing it to intentionally manipulate the person you're just expressing who you are that's very different than intentionally lying to someone manipulating them gas sliding them you're just saying listen I don't like to CL go to clubs can you respect that and not do that I me the person says yes or no but you're not trying necessarily to control them you're just expressing who you authentically are and what you authentically want and need and then your partner we remember we talked about this if they can hear you it's like yeah I hear that that that kind of makes sense but what when is it enough when is it enough to stop working at it when do you know okay it's just not working anymore I need to walk away when does it when when is point of it because people can go to therapy coup's counseling for years on relationship done in but yeah but again I respect them from keep working at it because back in the day people were married at 17 18 years old with each other 7 760 to 70 years yeah nowadays people don't last 60 70 minutes you know what I'm saying so when does it become enough though that you need to protect yourself no matter there's kids involved I need to just walk away well I think that we all all like you say are imperfect I know I'm very imperfect in my relationship I know my husband is but we can hear each other we can communicate with each other and we can have some resolution to our problems so if you have crazy making communication that never goes anywhere you have a problem and everybody can do like a one-off bad thing like we said but if you see a pattern of behavior a pattern of linding a pattern of manipulation a pattern of control that's not going away no matter what then you need to run like hell that's that's why you know and that's very you know and that's why I wrote my book Because when you're in it and you're in love it can be very hard to see it and especially if you don't understand it but now there's a lot of information out there where people can get help and it's the research shows it takes a woman four to seven times to leave a trauma Bond it's a very hard thing to do is to leave somebody love but often love isn't enough when were you at your lost with which time that's what I'm saying when was it that the lowest of the low was after being kicked down the stairs was at that was probably the lowest one of the there must have been a lot of happy times when when were you when were you at your happiest oh I think when our children were born of course and um like moving into our house all those things of of newly being met married the beginning I think really connecting with each other emotionally did you have friends in that relationship or were you just I isolated oh I had so many friends did you yeah so you weren't isolated in the house just yeah no no I'm a very relational person so I have good like not tons of friends but I have enough of good friends who are still my friends still today yeah but I had friends and a lot of our friends were friends you know we would that was the fun part like we would all hang out together with our husbands and our kids kids that was the fun part what what was it like being a mother do you think you could have left a relationship ear if you never had kids yes being a mother is the most important experience of my life who so it's the most wonderful experience my I mean I could cry talking about as you can see I just love being a mother as you talked about I'm a nurturer I'm a caretaker and I don't know there's just something so magical about it and my children now are 30 and 28 and they're my best friends my daughter's a therapist my son's a rapper I have three stepdaughters who I'm very close with there's nothing like giving birth to this beautiful little soul and then helping them to develop and become these wonderful people and that to me is like the most important thing about Jordan and I and always say this you know the one thing is that we've both been really good parents and we both really love our kids and it Chen who they are today and so a lot of and it's really hard when you're in a trauma Bond usually to have that experience and that doesn't mean we haven't wanted to kill each other even after we've gotten divorced we're strong personalities but we've always come together for the children because when you talk about your children you can see the nurtur and loving natural yes thing a woman should be yes but then again you talk about the masculine energy as well do you see a big change in who you were from 22 everybody changed through time anyway but you see a massive change and being that submissive okay Jordan listen you weren't [ __ ] stupid you're from Brooklyn you know what I mean you've got some sort of backbone but do you feel the shift in you from back then till now sure oh yeah I'm totally much more empowered in fact I was thinking about that I was driving over here it's like it feels good to feel strong you know it feels good [ __ ] oh it does it feels great and you know especially at 56 because there's so much like [ __ ] around ages and espe with women and I mean yeah do I wish I didn't have so many wrinkles and whatever else is happening with my body and that sort of stuff but I love what's happening with my mind it's fun yeah that's if you can take whatever control you want in there and think and believe what you want to believe the world's Unstoppable everything's Limitless yeah yeah and it's um I don't know it just it it's nice to be able to think that you can influence yourself and one of the things that I work with with the women women I work with is there's so after you've been in trauma B you feel so much fear um because you've been so controlled and a lot of times the partners can be dominating and that's that fear is real and but when you when you get older at least for me I'm facing my fears every day you know I used to hate to do podcasts I would feel so insecure and so uh self-conscious right but I've done them enough now I faced my fears enough to be able to do it and so really working with the women that I work with on facing their fears approaching life how do you face your fears I just keep showing up and doing what I fear and talking myself through it saying nice things to myself you can do it you can do it and teaching myself that mistakes failure rejection they're all part of life it just means you're trying I mean have you ever been rejected or failed yeah all the time right it's [ __ ] painful and it's all day but that's why a lot of people stay in their comfort because it as painful rejection is it was especially for man a man it's um like I say men we're we're pretty simple creatures but we I've got enough male friends and understand men enough understand my life and not bringing the choices I made we are kind of [ __ ] up as well we are lost souls and it's sad because yeah the majority of Jordan Peters Peterson says that the majority of people who are in prison are men the majority of people are homeless are men the majority of people who are suicide on men the majority people fight Wars on men the majority people have shitty jobs on men and I used to think wow but then I thought well wait a minute what does what does that say then it means Women are Smarter because women are making better choices MH men don't need to make those choices men don't need to go to prison men don't need to be suicidal or something disconnected from man yeah and I go back from again breastfeeding and um cutting umbilical cord which is so important to feel stem cells and nutrients but again everything so as soon as you cut that and everything skin to skin and kids can think they're in the win for up to 9 months or whatever it is and some kids and women need to work kids are in nurseries or whatever yeah I don't know what whatever it stems from but there's something that I M with the man and the feelings listen when man is well we've got to just [ __ ] pull the trousers up sometimes and just dig deep and get on with it because we can't be crying every day it's not our natural being it's good to listen men cry it's great listen whatever but we can't be crying every [ __ ] day right you know what I mean as a man you've got to be taking everybody's pain on and pressures okay I've got you my kids are safe my m is safe my mother's safe okay listen if I need to [ __ ] have a moment I'll have a moment but I still need to show up the next day make sure everything's safe again for my opinion um I don't know I think people I think the world is just BEC coming out I don't know can bit soft if I'm honest I didn't the world is becoming soft yeah B soft yeah yeah and it's um what do you think the main triggers are for like a steady relationship and a broken relationship what is the the main ones that break relationships down what's the main triggers I think a big part of it is lying think so yeah I think that if you can't trust your partner you don't really have a foundation I mean that we all have white little lies but I think consistently lying to a partner I think consistently betraying a partner stepping outside the relationship you know we talked about drugs already but those are things that and and and really like I talked about trying to control your partner nobody wants to be controlled mean I don't want to be controlled do you want to be controlled no yeah just want to be me so lying betraying controlling a partner abusing them manipulating them those that's not love they must old life no we B no I don't I don't I like my new life how was it writing your book hardest thing I've ever done why oh it's so much work it's so much work to take all the research and mix it in with the stories and you think about a book is 60 70,000 words and every word counts um and I kind of have that personality of like oh yeah I'll write a book and then I write it I'm like what on Earth did I get myself into but I it's my life's work I know it's good because I know just so I get so many messages from women all over the world like your book is helping me so much I'm not feeling crazy your book is validating me so that makes so that makes it all worth it but it was very hard it was a very humbling experience let's just say that obviously you're a therapist but was that like a therapy session for you yeah did that make did it bring again all the emotions and feelings back of everything yes especially chapter 2 chapter 2 where I write about the man is he twisted or Tender I said to my husband I hate you I hate Jordan I hate my father he was like okay when's this book going to be over yeah it was hard was there a time though you hated every man because of how a man put you through what one man pick your through I think it was just writing about that personality it was just very it was a process that really ate me up from the inside out it was hard to do how is that when you feel as if you're losing your mind how hard does that for all women you know when I what I luckily for me when I feel my mother taught me the most best quote she said to me just when you think you're losing your mind you might be regaining it and so I let myself lose my mind I let myself feel my emotions I let like you say like I give myself that moment just to cry in bad or flail about and really Express them they come out they process and then I'm like okay so it's okay hey I mean I I expect to to feel a lot of feelings and lose my mind that's part of life when yet your happiest now oh my God when I'm with my grandson he's so cute I have two grandsons and they're just it's so it's magical from each kid so no I have my daughter has I just had a boy Rory congratulations I think that's kind of a Scottish name isn't it yeah and then uh my stepdaughter has a three she has a three and a half almost BO old boy they're so fun yes Steph he's just got a granddaughter as well it's the best right do you think you can enjoy it better being a grandparent because he's out there 247 you can have them back after a few hours it's the best it's the best there's a there's a pillow that says if I knew being a grandparent was so good I would have done it first and that's it's just great it's so much fun I love being with my family that's to me is and my good friends like that's to me is what it's all about why do you think it is easier being a grand not easier but do you think it's because of what you've learned being a parent or is it because it's not your own kid because you was still die for your grandkids as you with your kids anyway but why do you think it is more enjoyable I think both the reasons you said I think about the reason you said you can give them back and you've already been through it you're not as nervous you know you're just like Oh They'll be fine I dropped my son on his head he's fine what did Jeff K say in the world voice the movie you know that's a good question they um they went to the premiere with Jordan and they sat next to their grandparents which they said was like totally awkward and they were fine with it they I had spoken to them about their dad throughout their whole lives so this was not some big shock who he was and they were like that's my dad okay you know then they're crying to me about pimples and their boyfriends they went back to their lives yeah because would have been because you can they wouldn't have know the extent of the like style if it wasn't out there on a book or TV right do you know what I'm saying so you can you can hide and mask a lot do you think it improves your relationship with your kids because then they getting a better understanding of what what you actually went through yeah I um I mean I don't know if it improves it but are were you scared that they could have not turned on Jordan but no because I've never I've always supported them to have a really good relationship with their dad I think that's something that's really important you know just because him and I didn't get along in the end that's still their dad like they have to have a good relationship with him and I think that's important for them and for him you know did you travel the world then like was it a luxurious lifestyle where you were traveling in yachts and helicopters and private planes yes did you love that lifestyle I oh I didn't like the private planes they were really freaky cuz you feel everything in a private plane um they're very bumpy the yard of course we had crazy moments of fun um so yeah it it had its fun moments but what was your happiest moment in that relationship that's a tricky one probably in the beginning before I knew what I was really getting myself into when I was a young hopeful girl yeah what AG do you think you should fall in love I believe people should people can fall in love at 17 and be with each other the rest of their lives yeah but how far and relationship do you think you should really wait do you think people should wait because like you say everything's lust at the start everything's just exciting and feeling good do do you think people should wait a bit longer before getting to know the person before committing I do I do but I know love has its own way of working people but I do I think it's I think it's better to wait till you're at least in your late 20s to really they say it take seven years to fully get to know somebody [ __ ] see I can't last s minutes one so there's no way why do you think love is so painful sometimes but yeah it's the purest form of anything on this planet but yeah it is painful to love someone or be in love and for men anyway relationship breakups are one of the hardest a a man can go through yeah we don't speak about it we don't sit with the friends and go you know what I miss her W get [ __ ] high on Coke or go to the strip joint or get alcohol suppress all women sit and talk [ __ ] in kitchens and go with their girlfriends and just talk it out yeah men don't really heal from relationship yeah that's sad yeah why do you think that is well I think love hurts because we are social beings and we we're meant to belong to people I mean we can't live alone you know a baby won't survive unless a mother's face is in front of it and so I think it hurts so much because people that we fall in love with matter to us a lot and when don't act the way we want them to or they abandon us you know we feel like it could feel like death I mean heartbreak feels like death do you believe in soulmates I don't know it's about every fairy isn't it yeah I'm really more research based imagine if you were to meet a man now would you have like a [ __ ] checklist and go okay okay okay would you have like do you look um obviously you're in the happy relationship but if you've seen a man would you look for would the telltale signs be there automatically would you have something you would search for if I was if I was dating now yeah I have a pathological lover checklist I would say check and I actually put an assessment for it on my website yeah yeah especially for young girls I know what it was like to be that young naive girl and so especially for young women and relationships are [ __ ] crazy did you ever struggle how's your your kids relationships did you ever worry that your especially your daughter that made the same Choice as you did yes she didn't she married the greatest guy was that a concern though because you know how easy it can be yeah sure sure but she never she's much smarter than I am she never showed signs of my Ridiculousness yeah yeah and my son he's he's just a sweet young man so he's great how's the relationship with you and Jordan now good good just just fine yep he's remarried to a lovely young woman um you we're grandparents and I don't really see him that much anymore cuz now my kids are big MH so there's not really much of a reason to see him but when we see each other we saw each other when our B when our grandson was born Rory and we hugged and was a nice happy moment was it yeah very happy like because obviously you shared a lot of time with someone but they say love on the last seven years they believe that relationship wayse feel probably seven years yeah it couldn't I I could say in one marriage like you can in one marriage you could be like have three marriages three different experiences of marriage yeah like I'm with my husband now 24 years it's not like when we first met you know but it's like the Love Has deepened how do you last 24 [ __ ] years huh I told you I'm very tolerant and driven I told you I don't know we just lasted and um I'm glad what's the key though do you think that broken relationship from the last time helped this relationship or did it make it no I think it helped and I think um we both just really wanted it to work mhm so when I was a pain in the ass he would check me when he was a pay in the ass you know I would check him and thing in the ends we both wanted it to work we wanted to have that family unit and like I could tell you if you could stay till the grandkids stay because it's so nice when everybody's around us so we both wanted it to work why did you never have any more kids oh cuz I had one of each and they're perfect enough enough I don't want I didn't want more kids how many do you have three oh boy you're brave did you did you ever worry that the other relationship could have broke down you'd have had two marriages and for sure do you then doubt yourself and who you are to then try and keep a man as well if it's always broken relationship of course of course yeah yeah sure sure we when I had problems in my relationship like oh my God imagine I get divorced again but we figured it out yeah what do you think the key is to a healthy relationship I think mutual respect and I talked about this in the beginning hearing each other like not getting defensive you know and not personalizing everything I think that you know not everything's about you when you're in a marriage sometimes your partner is just in a bad mood it's not always about you but we can hear each other when I first met my husband and I said to him oh that really bugged me when you did that he goes oh okay I hear you I was like what I couldn't believe he could hear me what's wrong with us man yeah I was like what yeah so um but yeah we've had a bumpy road too life the course of true love never did run smooth yeah how did he deal with that the movie coming out that must have been tough on him not tough but you know what I'm saying to see all that [ __ ] and your partner out there I couldn't do you know I mean as a man speaking from a man I would like to see it but um he must be an understanding man that's he is he is look listen I'm here talking about my ex-husband right and he's totally cool about it he understands my mission in life he knows what I want to do but he's um and he's told me he'll be on the golf course and you know people will say oh you know my ex-wife the duess of bay rid and the guys will be like oh your wife was naked in the movie he's like that wasn't my wife yeah he's yeah do you think could you turn the book into a movie or followup from your own life story what you went through yeah and the trauma and all the pain overcoming stuff yeah I just don't want to do that yeah enough's enough enough's enough I I take I took the wolf vehicle which I'm grateful for and used it in my way right Jordan used it in his way I get T it in my way yeah I love that that's what it's all about you know I mean take it as a positive [ __ ] enhanced everything and like I say everything's in hands people know who he's are he's what people want you on podcast why not you talk about the pain of the past because like you say it wasn't all painful right it was some amazing [ __ ] moments some of the best moments of your life you look back and think [ __ ] me at least when you're on your death bed you've done you know what I'm not going to out this [ __ ] life all unscathed and perfect we going through a little [ __ ] up but wow have I lived how many people can say they were on a boat and a helicopter crashed and they're getting lifted out in the air no not many people could say that no even when you're speaking in therapy your therapist must have been thinking she's [ __ ] full of [ __ ] so do you think you make half of that [ __ ] up you know the thing is that when I was going to become when I was becoming therapist and the movie came out I was like who the hell is going to want to come to me as a therapist I really had that moment but then people were like wait but you went through that and you came out here we do want to come to you so you know I was worried about it but it actually all worked out so all these years later you're still working on yourself yes I'm not in therapy this this right now but yes yeah as a therapist you have to be So for anybody that's maybe in that [ __ ] relationship and struggling to leave what advice would you have for them I would say to them don't isolate talk about it let people know what you're going through try to get yourself into some trauma informed therapy get really educated and that's why I wrote the book because education leads to empowerment andj a whole character great part he played how close to the characters were real very the guy with the teeth and was he real yes was it so see you're watching that are you is it funny in a sense where you're thinking how close it was to being basically 100% genuine yeah yeah I mean they mixed some of the characters together but you know yeah it was it was very genuine those guys were crazy did you like any of his friends no no I mean not not so much some of them were nicer than others and how is it when you talk about all that cuz listen like I say it's a massive mve it's a big part of your life people are interested in hearing that stuff but they're also interested in hearing how you overcome it how you made the changes have you never it never broke you when you're sitting in a corner just shaking and do you know what I'm saying you start beautiful looking women you're doing amazing things and that's what it's all about to give people an understanding you don't have to just settle that's don't have to just [ __ ] accept you can go enough enough no matter who it is in your life your husband your mother your father your brother your sister exactly no matter if it's a remember you can't tell them to [ __ ] off that's right and on opinion but again where can people buy your book so they can buy it on Amazon of course Barnes & Noble there's also an ebook and I did the audio book myself so you get to hear this Brooklyn accent and um everywhere pretty much books are sold what all your social media links and stuff sure the Instagram is the real Dr nen and Tik Tock which I say is the wild west of social media is Dr Nate n a e l m f t how has the response been on all the social medias but are rless as well how do you deal with trolling shuty messages everybody gets them yeah you know what I just heart them and I think they get confused and they don't know what to do going forward for the future nine what's your plans what's your Visions oh my vision is just to be grateful that I get to wake up every single day and I'm still breathing and just on my mission just to educate women everywhere about trauma and you know help as many women I would say helping you know helping women one heart at a time yeah you know just try to reach their reach their potential in life and in love so I love my work I love being of service and my you know my grandson's coming in four weeks and yeah that's pretty much it just keep working on my mission to educate people what's your greatest life lesson playing it safe is the most dangerous place to be don't play it safe take risks what the better motivation you could give someone that's maybe stuck in a r just now yeah that it's okay to feel stuck it's okay to don't judge yourself for feeling stuck don't beat yourself up just say you know what there take little little steps to make your life better change doesn't happen like one big overarching change right what can you take what two steps can you take today to make your life better what two steps can you take tomorrow what two steps can you take the next day and then all those steps end up leading to big change de listen thank you for coming on today giving me a time I finally enjoyed that what you're doing is amazing what you've overcome is amazing the book's amazing I'll leave the link in the description would you like to finish up on anything else no just thank you for having me yeah any L fun yeah all the best wish you all be the best for the future thank you and yeah good luck with it all God bless

Channel: Anything Goes With James English

Views: 78,525

Keywords:

Id: yLb9WuPkZq0

Length: 82min 59sec (4979 seconds)

Published: Thu Apr 25 2024