Msgr. Michael MaGee: A Methodist Who Became A Catholic Priest - The Journey Home (3-8-2010)

good evening and welcome to the journey home my name is Marcus Grodi your host for this program each week I have this privilege of bringing before you someone who because of their leanings their spiritual growth the way the Holy Spirit touched their lives sometimes a crisis they were open to a deeper walk with Jesus Christ and often that walk brought them to a place they never dreamed symbolized by that building behind me vatican coming home to the Catholic Church and that's that's true of our guest tonight we have a Monsignor with this Monsignor Michael Magee he was a former United Methodist well talked with it but just a moment I want to welcome you to the program especially those of you that are United Methodists will talk in a moment about that yeah that the United Methodist movement is a very vast and wide movement so we'll find out in a moment which part of the movement you came from welcome to the journey home Monsignor thank you it's a pleasure to be here when we say United Methodist that's a wide berth isn't it it is it is I was a member of Ingleside United Methodist Church in Baton Rouge Louisiana when I was growing up all right well let's invite you to go way back in your beginning and let us get a glimpse of your spiritual upbringing sure I guess when I became closer to God was mostly right after my parents had separated I think when I was much younger I had gone to Presbyterian sunday-school with my grandmother and that was my introduction to faith but parents weren't active my parents at that time we're not really active in any faith they were believers but they didn't regularly go to church on Sunday my grandmother did and took me and it was after my parents separated though that I personally turned to the Lord and really in the confusion of that time the the upheaval of having my parents separate I asked and for you know make things right again and that was when I really came closer to him I was asking him to bring my parents closer to each other that was not to be but what he did instead was to bring me closer to him I'm wondering often you hear people talk about in divorce that the that the children end up with a sense of guilt like maybe they wondered whether it was their fault something they did it was that a little part of it it may have been but you know I don't think I put it in those terms then maybe later yeah okay so wonder if that's what was leading you to want to reach back out to God so you least had some data about God I mean at least about writer and something right and I started reading the Bible it was then I decided to read the Bible from cover to cover okay I was about 10 years old I hadn't really read any book of any length but I wanted to read the whole Bible and took me a couple of years but I did I don't think I understood a lot there especially some parts so Leviticus that I think I fell asleep in the middle of trying to figure out what this was all about but numbers the tribes the long lists the names that was it as you look back was was that an awakening for you the reading of the Bible or was it just a it was getting information okay it was as I say the the mystery of it the difficulty in making sense of some of it led me deeper and I wanted to know more but all in all I think it was the the fact that God was speaking to me through this page that he had this way on earth that he would choose a way to speak to us that that I think made me look for more and turned to religious experience and to be more interested in worship and wanting to go to church and wanting to be part of a Methodist youth group United Methodist you were becoming involved with a lot I was in fact it was the president of the United Methodist youth group that I was that I was that I belong to then and I did have some thought in that time of being a minister I don't think it was a very strong thought but was that because you were inspired by the particular leader you had you think or because you were looking at what gifts that you both both I think I admired the ministers that we had but I also was finding that faith in God had been such a support for me and I wanted to be able to share that with people all right now what were the had your parents come back to them to the church at all they separated but they separated my father eventually started to take us it was after my parents separated that my father and grandmother really decided that it would be a good thing for us children to go to church and so that's when we started going to the Methodist Church specifically all right and that's when we all got involved really where was the Catholic faith at all in your upbringing oh this mysterious thing out there that I didn't have any regard for really anything about it was mysterious and somehow not not I didn't have the sense that maybe some fundamentalists do when they're taught to hate the church but I did have a sort of distrust of the Catholic Church it was something not quite along the not quite as pure a Christianity in my mind as the Protestant faith was because of the practices such as the veneration of the Saints and the putting of of what I considered a human tradition on a par with the sacred scriptures and those sorts of things those wouldn't so I would say it was a pretty normal Southern Protestant typical sort of added to toward the Catholic Church not violent hostility but a little bit of distrust flurb often it may be your thoughts on this - what I've often wondered is the scene is that those that usually have the strongest anti-catholic feelings often usually have the strongest fundamentalist isolationist ideas about their own faith in others they see whatever group in as the true versus even other Protestant groups it whereas when I think of the United Methodists you certainly will find a great wide berth of of what people believe in the United Methodist movement but often it's a very ecumenical church right very tolerant very open to other faiths actually with the Methodist Church they were there were there were both that was the the church overall and then there were people in my congregation who had that a little more distrustful of Catholic things and I think I absorbed a bit of both and in fact one of the things that I became a little bit first it was one of the things that I found attractive about the church where I was but then it was one of the things that left me a little dissatisfied was the on the positive side of the coin was the freedom that we're not going to tell you what to believe we're gonna let you believe what you want to believe and that that was a positive feeling that I had about that within Methodism within MIT right right but then the dissatisfaction was well what does the Lord say that's what I want to believe yeah I I really would like to have a clearer sense of what the right interpretation of the scripture is what the the the faith is that's been handed down from the Apostles and that doesn't seem to me a matter of indifference that I just come up with that on my own and I can't became a little dissatisfied with the lack of a of a clearer guide in in what we call the catholic church dogma and then from so many people today that's a that's a bad word yeah it's interesting I was a lot of our audience can think about the time after the Council of the confusion that reigned in catechesis within the Catholic Church right not because of the council but the way it was implemented or the way it was misinterpreted or whatever but that was happening in the non Catholic churches too it was in fact that was one of the things that really pushed me along because I saw that and the more I became involved in the methodist united methodist church and participated in nationwide and programs then i saw more of that and I saw turning away on a on a the level of the overall body from more than were traditional moral positions you know and that just dissatisfied me because I thought if the Lord has taught these things and if the reason that the churches have been holding to the moral teachings that they have for eighteen hundred years it's not simply because times haven't changed it's because they've believed that these teachings have been handed down from the Lord well what was the time period that you were there active in the Methodist Church was that in that it had been the late 70s it means so okay so from really from the early 70s into the mid to late seventies so you were right in the middle of it when the when the United Methodists were dealing with with the pro-life issues too I mean that was really the peak at the time when a lot of people are just in the Methodist Church as well as other Protestant denominations right what do you deal with these pro-life issues all of a sudden now that abortion is legal right and while I saw in my own congregation people still held the traditional beliefs I saw on a broader level that we're beginning to be problems and there didn't seem to be any sort of mechanism within either the United Methodist Church or other churches for how to say with some clarity we don't accept these currents in the modern world it's not because we're not modern it's because we hold to what the Lord has taught and we're not going to change with the times when it's a matter like that Wow try to I'm wondering if maybe you at this time we ought to tell the audience how United Methodists decide how do they decide of a position on abortion or on women in the ministry or on a hundred the United Methodists do that well I I would be a little bit uneasy about saying that because I really don't know now but what I do remember from my own experience was hearing about votes in a nationwide convention that really changed some basic things and when I saw that that could be a way that basic teachings were altered I just that was a red flag for me I couldn't be comfortable with that I mean it almost became an idea of at the local level thinking we've got to get votes out there right so we got almost lobbyists right yeah of lobbyists and groups and make sure we got groups speaking so that their I mean that happened in Presbyterianism and it happened in Episcopalian isn't among all the different groups right everybody becomes a democratic so you were struggling with that it was I was struggling with that in fact I was looking around different I remember getting a book of the 200 or so different Protestant denominations and right and looking at what the teachings of all of them were and looking somewhere else honestly it didn't occur to me to look at the Catholic Church at that point no that was just something I didn't even think I know is this when you were in college I was in high school high school still all came early in high school very early high school because it was really in sophomore year in high school that I made the trip to Rome that had a big impact that's interesting because that's pretty young right I was 16 years old to dealing with these kind of questions right bingo so you were those spirit was really working in you right seriously to take a look at what the church you were in right so what what you're looking at the book it cracks me up because I mention it because I know other guys including myself had done that and it's like we're looking at the book okay here's this I like this about this church I don't like this okay so no I like this but I don't like this I don't like this I mean so there you are looking at all 200 denominations when you were done what did you conclude well I was more attracted to the Lutheran I thought Lutheran's in some way and Episcopalians in another and if I could take the what I what was seemed best to me in the Lutheran and the Episcopalian I think I would have had the perfect combination but it wasn't that wasn't what I found and it was then that I said I really was exposed to talk about this trip so you made a trip and aged 16 to Rome I did it was a really momentous trip for me because it was in Latin class I was in a public high school but there were there was a Latin that was offered and in fact I went with a with the Latin teacher and a group of students she came in one day with a travel brochure and I don't think she really seriously thought it was a possibility that we would go but enough of us were interested in going to Italy that we went on the study trip to Italy and went all through well Italy and interestingly that Latin teacher she's still alive and she was an agnostic but had great great respect for the Catholic Church and I think in a public school there was her agnosticism at the time that let her articulate that respect for the Catholic Church that maybe she couldn't have if she were Catholic or wouldn't have felt as comfortable but she appreciated the Catholic Church as having kept learning alive through the centuries and so she was the group the one that brought all of us to Italy and I was in her second year Latin class and it was when we were in st. Peter's and before we were going to st. Peter's I remember asking her and I think this was on Good Friday actually although it was not you know we weren't really celebrating the Trudeau and we were on a study trip but I remember getting them on the bus going to st. Peters and saying to her well why is the such an important church there really the central Church in a way for the Catholics why is it named C Peters why wouldn't it be named for Jesus or you know what what what is there to explain that and she really wondered along with me but when we went there that's when we went into the Basilica we had gone I think through the Vatican Museum first and she invited her second-year students to see if we could read the words in the dome and that's when I read those words in the new are Peter and on this rock I will build my church and then it says I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven and I had actually had a question about those words I wondered what they were about why what well you would have read them and reading the Bible cover-to-cover sure would have skimmed pastured at least right and I remembered them in readings in worship and wondered what those words were about and as the guide continued telling us about the place she was speaking about the tomb of Peter and that's when I said well why are you mentioning the tomb of st. Peter where is the tomb of Peter and she said well that's what that's what this building is this is this is the tomb of Peter right here beneath the altar and that just blew me away because I had really never it had never occurred to me that the body of the apostle was lying there and it was a it was a disturbing thought for me in a way because I never thought of the Catholic Church as being the church that in which I would feel that kind of closeness to the Lord Himself I mean here was a man who had seen the Lord risen from the dead and when it was when I was there I felt that and it was it was a strange feeling because I had never doubted Christian faith I had never been in a position where I would say I doubt that the Lord that Jesus is Lord and yet being there close to the tomb of Peter gave me a sense of the concreteness the the fact that Jesus was flesh and blood among us and that was a sense of him that I never had in that powerful of way beef which is you know really what the relics and that's what they're to do that's the purpose of that yeah they're not not to be worshiped as if you know it's at as attachment of something you know no no this is this point is beyond them to right intimacy with Jesus did so you didn't it didn't convert at that moment but you had an awakening do you think back on that by the end of that trip I was telling a friend of mine that I wanted to be a Catholic and so when I went home I just started reading everything that I could about the you know like some adolescents might hide other things under the sofa I was hiding the Catholic catechism under the sofa and trying to sort things out well were you your sixteen at this point right that's pretty precocious there in a sense spiritually precocious because I can't imagine myself being interested in anything more than basketball and other things at age 16 so you're coming back here read the Catechism are you doing the comparison with the Methodists and the Catechism at the time or just absorbed finding out for the first time what do Catholics really that's what I was doing from that point on I was just voraciously reading everything it could about the Catholic Church and when I came on the ideas of apostolic succession that the bishops today are the successors of the Apostles and that because of that they're in their teaching they inherit the the promise that the Lord gave to the Apostles themselves that that the teaching of the church would not fail with that he would be within the Spirit of Truth would remain with us this just really filled that that gap that I had felt for a place where the certainty of true teaching could be found in this world and not just waiting for heaven to find out whose interpretation of the Bible was correct and which committee right got the loudest voted and convention right were you having any resistance at the time from family or friends I wasn't talking to them about it I wasn't talking to them about it at all in fact it was a couple of years before I really talked to them about it and very sheepishly because I knew that I was by the time I talked to them about it though the longer I waited to talk to them about it the harder it got because I was going so far with what I was reading and feeling inside about the Catholic faith and they had no idea about it they knew that I honestly I don't know maybe they did and in fact when I finally did express some of my feelings to my mother my father my grandmother I think they did have anything of it before there was a G K Chesterton talks about a journey of faith for the I can't think of the actual terms he used when he describes his own conversion but he talks about three stages that people go through where at first it's as if they're patronizing the church in other words they're at least admitting that there might be something good in the Catholic Church so they kind of begin there at least you know open the door a little bit and then they start to discover the beauty of it and become more and more overwhelmed with it and then thirdly they're trying to run away from it they get to that stage did you experience those in your journey it sounds like you're at least open a little bit when you went to Rome now you're just hunger and thirsting to find out ever did you get to a running-away stage not with the faith with the that that happened when the idea of a priestly vocation so that's a bit down the road yet so you're you're everything you're discovering is drawing you to the faith or you're not really telling anybody about it that's right so at what point I was telling friends at school maybe about it but not people in my family okay and then I went away to college and it was there that I decided well now it's a whole new ballgame and when I I want to go to church I want to go to Mass and I want to start asking people what do I do to become a Catholic by the time you've gone to college had you gone at all to a Catholic Church yet other than your visit no no I had not this was totally on paper it was on paper right and it wasn't even with a lot of conversation with with Catholics interesting it was the conversations I had with Catholics were through their writings I read what they wrote and so I knew that was inadequate I mean I really you can tell that I knew that I had this had to become flesh and blood so there you are in college going to your first math that's right was it like you hid you had experienced on paper no actually I expected a Latin and very bailed right I think I expected more of the Church of the a little bit before that time sure but and but I just got more and more comfortable to it I guess the the the uneasiness at the beginning was not knowing what to do do I make the sign of the Cross do I genuflect am i faking it if I do am i offending people if I don't it was really awkward but I just kept going and I asked a girl who was in my dorm we had a coed dorm and asked her well how do what what do I do to become a Catholic and she gave me advice that I didn't realize it wasn't really good advice she said well when you think that you believe what the Church teaches and you want to be a Catholic then you just go to communion what's up we don't recommend that at all no that's not what you do I knew that when I knew that later that was when they became really awkward so I started going now I knew because of what I had read that you don't go to communion before you've been to confession so I just went to confession and it was terrifying for the first time because I had no idea what to do and I had never been to confession I just went in the hole it was a one of these it's kind of a box that's a piece of furniture in the church do you know the big box in the church and the whole thing was shaking when I went to confession the first time and I think the priest didn't know exactly what to do with me either because I had never been through any instruction everything that's when he gave me a little guide that said I talked to a priest about this he's London that kind of got you going to know because then I went to the pastor and I wanted to have some classes there I was there were things going on at the Newman Center that I participated in but they weren't really instruction in the faith they were more like a Lenten series and it was only when I saw that there was going to be confirmation at the at the parish where I was that I there was there was a there was going to be confirmation for the children any adults who have not been confirmed yet should get in touch with the pastor to arrange for that well that's when I called the pastor we didn't have the RCIA yet in Philadelphia at that time and I think some parishes did but it wasn't diocesan wide and so I just met with the the priest in preparing we were a baptized Christian anyway so it had been in essence our CIA isn't technically for you anyway I mean you are baptized Christian you could have yes you did you got the private instruction via the priest so in the process there you are you're done that you're at the gate you're about ready to come in did you have any I'm guessing you didn't have qualms between Methodism versus Catholicism towards the end because you were recognizing the beauty of the authority of the church is that right right it was a steady progression from the time that after I came back from Italy up until the time I entered the church incidentally that that Latin teacher became a Catholic later okay oh really well let's take a break father because you've come into the church right this is the thread in your story let's take a Raik would come back let's find out about your call to the to the church and I also want to again also look back on what was the most difficult hurdles for you to come into the church maybe what was the one or two things that really drew you to the church as well as now as you look back after a number of years what I've often found is that sometimes after conversion you've been a Catholic for a while you start discovering even newer things that awaken you to the beauty of the church to talk that about roots so we'll come back in just a moment welcome back to the journey home I'm your host Marcus Grodi we're joined tonight by Monsignor Michael Magee thank you very much we've you've taken us on the store I do want to remind the audience before I forget one always remind you on Wednesdays my radio program deep in scripture on EWTN radio it's a broadcast at 2:00 p.m. Eastern Time that's brought rebroadcast again at night at 9 o'clock please turn into Wednesday and hear my guests talk about a verse they never saw so please join us on ewtn radio you left us at that stage just came into the church right but you were mentioning about your teacher she came into the that's right it was a couple of years after I had come into the church and I stayed in touch with her when I would get home mrs. cotton and she she's 91 now and she would tell me what was going on with herself well about two years later she was very excited to hear from me and told me that she had just come into the church herself she'd had a really an experience of the Lord when she was in hold in the Holy Land and once she was touched with faith then there was no question for her that she wanted to come into the Catholic Church and so still in touch with her when I go home so interestingly through her agnosticism the Lord had given her a respect for the church which was then the blanks were filled in later well that's right Jesus all right so you came into the church did did you have any reactions from family or friends to your conversion to the Catholic faith I think when I finally told my family it was a little bit of disbelief but not a not a strong opposition when I came into the church and my friends had seen it more all along it was a more gradual process with them and well they're surprised by your interest in the Catholic Church or your just your interest in faith you know and I mean you know you took it seriously enough that you would convert to the Catholic Church I'm wondering if a lot of Protestants you know they don't take their faith as seriously as they ought to maybe but that for me that was a constant when I was in the Methodist Church there was never the you had that I had the faith and I was looking for how to deepen that faith and I really I also had a sort of critical eye for contemporary classical things and I was always looking for the beginnings what were what were the big what were the early beginnings of Christianity like and I never thought the Catholic Church seemed like that to me but then when I was in Rome it suddenly hit me well whether or not it seems like it this is the Church of the beginnings yeah you know you want to correct something I just said a little guy made a little comment about a lot of Protestants don't take their faith very seriously I want to correct that is sadly that's why there's a lot of Catholics sure it is you know in other words they they sometimes get really surprised when someone in their life all of a sudden takes their faith really seriously and when they themselves have been taken I mean that's it that's our challenge what he wtn tries to do is inspire people to take their their faith seriously you were doing that you were in Rome was it what was the distance between the time of your conversion to the church to thinking about priesthood almost immediate to tell you the truth because as I said it had those thoughts of ministry and I think the reason they went away was I felt a little dissatisfaction with where I was just in terms of overall Christian faith I was looking for something and while I was looking for that I really couldn't see myself in being called to a ministerial role but as soon as I came into the Catholic Church I really started feeling very much drawn to share with other people what I had been given and I think that took the form pretty early on of calling to priesthood confirms the idea that when God calls us you know he really works the doors and opens the doors as well as our heart to be to be open to it so did what were you majoring in college was that a good step for you towards doing in business in fact it wasn't a smooth transition from one to the other it wasn't hostile to religion but it was certainly I guess that when I say it was a attention it's because I was going to a very good business school Wharton School in the University of Pennsylvania but I was more interested in studying theology than I wasn't studying the things that we were paying the tuition for and so that was that was attention within me but I kept both going and I really it was while I was still in college I did I really expressed to someone an interest in the seminary and I was encouraged to wait a little while not had not come as a new newly received Catholic into the seminary looking back that was excellent advice sure I think that the time in between really cemented my commitment and I don't regret it at all it was also for my father's sake I think he wanted to see me out of college and established in a job and to so that I would be sure too that that wasn't the reason I wanted to go into the seminary and in fact I finished college and got a job and enjoyed the job but I still knew this is not where I'm going to spend my life that I really well especially because you mentioned that before you really went through that last process of coming into the church I mean up until then it was just a church on paper that's right was just a church so you spent how many years then becoming a part of the real Church from 81 until I went into the seminary in 1986 okay so five years you what do you feel about the church that you really encountered verse of the church that was on those beautiful pages in the Catechism well it was just becoming flesh and blood and I think there was a little bit of a disappointment sometime with the liturgy I had come to believe in the sacrifice that the mass is the the making president of Jesus sacrifice of Calvary and the the real presence of the Lord in the Eucharist and I guess sometimes going to mass I sort of felt if Catholics believe this why doesn't it look like it you know because there's it seemed sometimes the singing was lackluster and that the music was maybe expressing a kind of emotion but not really the depth that I've found in the doctrine and so I guess there was a little bit of a tension there and that was something that it was a lesson to learn that the the church on earth is not perfect that the fact that she is the church that the Lord founded her to be doesn't mean that everything is going to be the way that it would be best for it to be in in the church and if if the church were free of sin then we wouldn't be in it so in the end I guess that's consoling but it's interesting also because later we'll talk about a moment your involvement with the liturgical stuff in Rome that this these six years going from on paper to seeing what it was really like compared also to your Methodist background is probably helpful it's what you would do later in Rome with evolve the liturgical Rite it was it was so many things added up and and led me to the work that would do later that I could have never planned well tell the audience so you're you're working an 86 do you go to seminary here in the States right I worked at a bank Philadelphia National Bank in 1986 from 85 and 86 and then went into the seminary in 86 I had been I was from Louisiana grew up in Louisiana and that old childhood story that we talked about was in Louisiana but then I went to the University of Pennsylvania and so when I wanted to go into the seminary I felt called by God to be a priest and wanted to verify that and by going through priestly formation and seeing whether the bishop would call me to to the priesthood then it didn't make sense to me to go back to Louisiana because I had never been part of the Catholic Church in Louisiana and so I stayed in Philly have been with the Archdiocese of Philadelphia since then all right your studies here in the states you my my theological studies were in Rome okay I went after I had been ordained for three years my bishop at the time Cardinal Bevilaqua asked me to go to Rome and study systematic theology and Sacred Scripture and to get both of those degrees and I think presumably with the idea of teaching in the seminary which is what I'm doing now but there was a detour because while I was in Rome I was asked to work at the Congregation for divine worship and discipline of the sacraments and that Vatican office that oversees the the Liturgy of the Latin Church throughout the world and so I worked there for nine years before coming back to Philadelphia talk about those years because just because your audience might not know I mean those are the years that all this this last period of renewal evaluation of the renewal right especially the liturgy yeah especially the liturgy and the translations of the mass it was that time that the Holy See began to look at the translations that we had and to decide that we needed to redo the translations really to bring them closer to the texts of the Latin that had been celebrated throughout the century so that people would really have in their own language the the full riches of the of the Roman Missal that we had throughout the centuries and so that all went on over those years over those same years that I was there so I had a front front row seat on all of that and that was fascinating time from your experience there and I'm new to the church I came in in 92 and the mass that I in English that I learned when I became Catholic Mass I ever knew I didn't know that pre-vatican to mass right so I didn't know I mean you'll and you think this is it but what was the conclusion that had risen to why we needed a new English translation and why did this why did we need a new English translation which we're going to get in about a year and a half right why do we need that well I think at the beginning there had been one particular guiding principle that she proved to be inadequate over time and that was the proclaim ability the the ability to say the words easily the ability to understand everything in the text that the first hearing seemed to override at that time in the first maybe rather hasty translation into English seemed to override the value of bringing into the English everything that was in the Latin Hill and what happened then was that a lot of the riches that had built up into the the Roman Missal over the centuries just was not communicated to us and we had a generation that really had had missed that and so when I was working there and had to look at the Latin text having learned the Latin now and see the English text that we were using I was amazed at how much wasn't in the English and the thing that was most clear to me when I came into the church was the Maricopa may a couple of men Maxima culpa right I mean how where did that translate into the English right I mean that was condensed and right so much it was so you could see that fairly easily in that in that place so and I'm wondering as the United Methodist former United Methodist former Presbyterian I mean having the English words right in the liturgy weren't that big of a deal right from our backgrounds right isn't that why is it a big deal for Catholics well it's a big deal for Catholics I think because for so much of our history our worship was in Latin and the the that's also the reason we don't have a strong enough yet I think musical tradition in English that's still developing and so it was a big shift but it's I think a lot of people see this new translation somehow as going backwards to me it's really going forward and exactly what the council wanted which is that people will have and be able to understand in their own language what was in the Latin Missal yeah and I see it akin to as you're getting back to the issue of Authority in other words the church from the beginning its primary purpose was to protect and preserve and the pass on the truth that we receive from Christ to his apostles I mean it's to be passed on protected and preserved right the earliest age of the church if the theology was up for group struggles the ideas can that idea be traced back to a church of an apostle right and there was the idea and the patristic you know going back well akin to the liturgy you know the liturgy we have is it the liturgy that can we can see the the thread the constant thread going all the way back or have we kind of gotten mixed up with modern ideologies as you said to kind of influence that translation no really of course I didn't study liturgy as a subject in school but when I was working in the Holy See in the Vatican I did have to brush up on the history of the Roman Missal and everything and I was really amazed to see for instance that a prayer that st. Ambrose mentions in the fourth century and he says here at Milan we we follow the same practice that Rome uses and he mentioned some of the prayers in the liturgy there in Milan but saying that they're using the Roman prayer and the prayer that he's that he's citing is exactly it's it's not word for word because there is growth there's there's there development but you can clearly see that the prayer that he's referring to is the same one that's now the first Eucharistic prayer in the Roman Missal so already in the fourth century that prayer was was being used and the fact that these these prayers that we have that are said by the priest at Mass and the ones that we all say together are so ancient really to me is a remarkable thing in human history even if we didn't have faith we'd have to say this phenomenon is something unique in you it's almost akin to what you experienced when you were there and st. Peters and you realized you were this close to someone who had seen the resurrected Jesus right in the words of the mass we are saying the same words when I saw that someone from the third century if he were able to walk into our mass and here especially if we were using the Latin he would recognize it as the same pray oh yeah the same uniting the church we've got an email this comes from Janet from Florida Monsignor McGee where you confirmed a United Methodist Church and did some of the likenesses help you on your journey well I was confirmed in the United Methodist Church of course for in the United Methodist Church confirmation is a different thing it's really just it's a membership it's the moment when a person becomes a member of the church of course we recognize the moment of membership in the church's Baptism and Confirmation is a seal on baptism but I did I was confirmed and what was the other part of that question did that help you even though there was the likenesses between your confirmation and becoming Catholic murder what was their similarities I think they were getting a tour well I think there were there were some similarities but the Catholic confirmation was a by its nature it was a it was a very it was a deeper thing because it wasn't just coming into the church it was full incorporation into the church and this was the moment when I really did feel that I it was the moment when I felt okay well I've been feeling drawn to this all along when Pope Paul the sixth at died and the two conclaves then I had felt that was a surprise to me that I found myself feeling a stake in this is if it was personally and I was personally involved in it but it was only after at that moment of confirmation where I said now I belong all church one of the things you teach at the seminary now you teach systematic theology right and biblical biblical theology I think you said in but one of them is a theology of grace right talk about that because there's the difference between a confirmation in one church versus how we understand the sacraments in the Catholic Church this issue of really change right the fact of divine grace is beings coming through the sacraments for one thing I think the real thing that I find in the that I found all along in every aspect of Catholic theology that was very very different for me from what I experienced in my Protestant background was the fact that God wants so much human involvement in the conferral of grace that that he has established the church that he's established the sacraments I think for in my earlier background the idea was that God gives his grace and leads the soul along in a sort of individual way but that he wants human beings to be involved that there to be a celebrant of the sacrament and the church to be involved and laid and the same principle I think ultimately is involved in the the prayer of the Saints the the intercessory intercession of the of the saints not a part of our backgrounds no email from Charles in Pennsylvania and he writes dear Marcus and guests seems that Monsignor may have been drawn to the tradition and conservative nature of the church was he ever put off by the liberal nature of some parishes once he came into the church in a word yes when I encountered that yes because there there were some ways of celebrating the liturgy that didn't seem to me to be flowing out of that sense of what the liturgy was as handed down to us you know the one thing and and I do think that sometimes even in the Catholic Church there's this misunderstanding about what the liturgy is not just a different style of liturgy but what the liturgy is and first and foremost I think Cardinal Ratzinger before he became the Pope said it so well when he said the liturgy is something we don't make delivers you something we receive and I think you can tell when you come into a community that sees the liturgy as something that was going on before they were even there that they're now drawn up into which is to me the Catholic understanding of the liturgy and on the other hand a mistaken idea that we're coming together to make this celebration yeah so much I remember in the Protestant worship we were often thinking how can we attract more people what can we do to inspire involvement you know and so often we would the the format's of our worship are up for grabs everything we could shift things around we could add things to because we're always thinking about how can we with our modern audience how can we inspire them how can we get them more involved as opposed to you know trust in the Holy Spirit to use the great gift of them the liturgy has given us the right you when I think about you teaching at seminary I think of that as in my mind one of the most important things that a person can do today in my reason for thinking that is when I look back historically at the Reformation we often think yeah the reference the Protestant Reformation was caused by those lousy Protestant reformers no no no no they weren't Protestants yet these were priests right they were laity and priests that weren't catechized well right that's what Trent recognized that the problem that led to the Reformation was poor catechesis poor discipline poor communication of the faith and so there was the need for that now you're in a position to be training these future priests and it's the most fulfilling thing I've done I've been in the parish and I loved it I was in Rome for nine years and it was a great experience but this is the most fulfilling assignment that I've had and it's it's great to see what God has up his sleeve because you see the future of the church I look at these young men who were studying today and I wonder where did you come from because the culture out there is not supporting what they're doing Wow but they're there they're in the end they're stronger than we were in went in the time when I was in the seminary and they are asking for good formation and hopefully they're getting so do you see a hunger for souls yes very much very much and I see a real zeal to share with others what they've been given and I mean when not only what they've been given in the classroom but the faith that they've been given so many of them have experiences of conversion and and I don't mean just when I say conversion I mean some of them have been Catholics all their lives but they had a moment of awakening when they really understood what this faith was to them and felt the call to offer themselves in in the seminary for priestly formation I'd like you to talk to the audience maybe there's some closing thoughts we're not standing in judgment of our separated brother absolutely right there they're with our Lord Jesus in fact I wanted to say too that when I came from the United Methodist Church into the Catholic Church there was nothing really that I felt I needed to reject nor did I feel rejected by them though the methods friends that I had it was just a matter of going further along the same road that the Lord was leading me from there and in in many ways through a lot of the things I experienced in the United Methodist Church into the Catholic I would say that that be true of almost all the guests we've had in the journey over the last 12 years you know most of us found Jesus long before we ever thought of the Catholic Church so we're eternally grateful to those that brought us to Jesus it's really but what I'd like you to do is talk to your but why be Catholic in other words why why is it important for our separate brethren to come home what are some reasons that you would so yeah these are real reasons why it's important to be home in the church well the one thing that I that comes immediately to mind is that the that chapter 17 of the Gospel of John where the Lord is it's a it's an amazing chapter it strikes me more and more as you see this is Jesus praying to the Father so it's we're looking into the life of God we're looking into the the relationship between the father and the son and the amazing thing is he's talking about us but his great desire in that prayer is that we should be one and that desire I think is fulfilled when we are one in the church and that means I think not in an invisible way where we have separate creeds and separate organizations but in the one visible body of the church on earth you teach Johanna and literature yeah you're you're a resident expert at least at this table and on the joy and Johanna and literature two verses from John that really opened my heart to why to become Catholic it was John 15:14 about abiding in Jesus right and then John 656 or 7 which is the only place Jesus tells us how to abide in him and that's in his body and blood right and I remember seeing those together realizing that when he says in John 15 apart from me you can do nothing that told me I need the graces of the sacraments right that's how I'm experiencing the the partnership with Christ isn't just prayer it isn't that which is important it isn't just being obedient that's important but it's through the graces of our sacraments that our separated bread well the word becomes flesh tits in the sacraments that prayer becomes flesh and blood and and that we become the flesh and blood that Jesus is making into one body on earth father as we close the program can we have your blessing certainly the name of the Father and of the son who the Holy Spirit Heavenly Father I ask your blessing on all those who are watching I ask you to keep them in your peace I ask him to fill them your heart with your love so that they may spread your light to the that they meet from day to day and may the blessing of Almighty God the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit descend upon you all and remain with you forever all right thank you very much Monsignor I'm also thinking about those in the audience that you read the Bible from cover to cover you know you're Catholic would you recommend that to Catholics certainly in fact we almost do in the liturgy sure I mean III 100% strongly do but Catholics sometimes think that's a Protestant thing I mean they really need to get their Bibles out and read it cover-to-cover a little rough through no Ovidius and numbers but it's it's worth the journey right that's right all right and you need some help along the way but you have it all right once again thank you very much thank you for watching us on this program that it's neat to have the Monsignor here for a number of reasons besides the fact of sharing his journey but I think also as I mentioned about the the important calling that is accepted that is teaching at a seminary and I want to encourage all of you to think about that to think about all those men and women teaching at our seminaries all the young men that have just are discerning a call to the priesthood right now think about what they are opening themselves up to become and the positions they will then serve how there will be voices for our Lord Jesus pray for them pray for them for the graces that will help them teach faithfully and follow the call god bless you see you next week you

Channel: EWTN

Views: 35,829

Rating: 4.8289785 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic, EWTN, Christian, television, Methodism (Religion), Priest (Profession)

Id: ZaxJyQdteHY

Length: 56min 32sec (3392 seconds)

Published: Wed Feb 11 2015