Noah Lett: A Lutheran Minister Who Became A Catholic - The Journey Home (2-2-2009)

good evening and welcome to the journey home my name is Marcus Grodi your host for this program I've said this many time but it's still a great privilege every week I have this opportunity of introducing to you men women who because of their love for Christ touched by the Holy Spirit sometimes kicked in places they didn't want to get kicked their eyes awakened their mind awakens to the truth of the Catholic Church and sometimes they're brought home in difficult ways and this is the open line program in which I bring back former guests to answer more of your questions my guest tonight is a good friend Noah Lett works here at EWTN former Lutheran minister he did a couple of specials here on EWTN so you've seen you've been on the roundtable a couple times but before I turn to Noah I want to remind you that you're an essential part of this program we want to take your calls as soon as we get them so with guiding questions for Noah please call us at one eight hundred two two one nine four six all outside North America you can call us at 205 270 129 80 or you can send me an email journey home at ewtn.com Noah welcome back to the journey home glad to be here Marcus I run into you all the time here at EWTN and the audience pride doesn't know what your job here is at EWTN because you're kind of a resident theologians at your technical title technical title is theological advisor okay you know we're we're the part that's not on the tour when most people come down here we said in are we it's like a library over there we read and do the various things to make sure that the Catholic content of the show is what Mother expected and what the Vatican expects yeah yes in reality there are times when we'll have a guest who has a book written but because we haven't had chance to evaluate it to make the been always mentioned on the program and the reason for that is because you want to make sure that what we do promote on EWTN is faithful to the church yes we've always been a promise to you the audience that if you want to find out what is authentic and trustworthy and the church that you can come to you wtn and make sure point you in the right direction that's your job I'm one of seven people there are four men and three women yeah well you were on my program the first time and you didn't have a job and then that's right and you had a chance to work here and never dream you'd spend the rest of your life reading great books that you loved to read anyway I've no idea what a great job it is a great job it is a great job well in the open line episode no I mean you've seen it before you I think you were well you're on the open line before yeah some time ago because you were under the regular show a long time ago ten years ago 1999 was my first time it was April 16th feast day of Saint Bernadette I remember it was very significant and so I invite a guest to remind the audience a little five-minute summary every journey this is the quick whirlwind tour my mother and father were Christian culturally they never made any effort to share with us the gospel me and my sister if they had it to share when I was six or seven years old not having any Bible I heard the story of Solomon's dream and the dream were in he asked for wisdom was such a wonderful thing to me at that age and I asked my friends what it is they wanted if they could have a wish and they said tricycles bicycles and I said oh no you want to be smart because you want to be to fix that tricycle and bicycle to have it forever about a week of that at the end of the week of that a voice said to me I remember the day I remember very clearly the voice said so why don't you ask the god of Solomon to bless you like he bless Solomon that was the best idea I had since peanut butter and jelly sandwiches you know that's how I thought at that age and I parted my legs and I pray for what I thought what think was the first time in my life I looked up in that blue sky and I hollered real loud because I didn't know how far you had to make it go and I said God of Solomon bless me like you bless Solomon and I became aware at that moment that my natural curiosity became a great fire that wanted to be fueled and consumed things and it seemed like at the bottom of the fire were these two questions these two logs and the first one was what makes existence worthwhile and the second one was why don't you know right now because it makes all the difference in the world I have no chance of answering the question like that my mother and father aren't college-educated I have no access to scholars priests pastors rabbis Protestant ministers anything town of 44,000 people so I struggled for 11 years to try to find an answer to the question just I have no intellectual training all I had was a scent of something about 8th grade I remember distinctly I went into the library and at the end of the day I had in mind I don't remember exactly what it was I read it wasn't anything Christian I remember I left the library knowing a little bit of a clue as to what it was I was looking for it was that whatever the answer was it was so wonderful that you didn't have to worry about life after death because it gave you dignity in this world and the world to come you know whatever the answer was it was so very wonderful who no matter who you were when you were or what you had done you needed to hear it the answer was so very very wonderful that it would require the loss of all that you ever were are or could be in your life and still that was a price far too small I had no idea what the answer was Marcus I had no I the audience will say yeah I know what that is that's a tip of my tongue I know what that is yeah it's Jesus but there was no one that ever mentioned him to me no one ever said anything about Jesus Christ to me backtrack when I was six or seven and I had that prayer I remember I I had dreams about fire falling from the sky and consuming the rocks and everything and I was trying to run to hide and I would wake up screaming and perspiring and my mother who had no Christian training all she did was rock me in her arms and she had no Ave no scripture I just fell asleep from exhaustion in her lap after having think but so that's what happens when you don't have the resources that people take for granted so I move along and after eighth grade I'm moving along and I realize that I'm I'm running out of time I not because I think I'm going to die but because I think what have I have not what happened right I didn't try drugs or sex or stealing or anything like that if you've seen me at the age of fourteen you would have said that's a nice young man I'd like my kids to know a nice young I was suffering I would I would I remember in a crowded room I would start crying I would be under the stars and I'd look up and there was something about them and I would start crying and I would hold my head in my hands and I would cower in the corner and I would say what is wrong why can't I find whatever this thing is why can't I find this finally one day I'd come from an evening out and I suddenly felt this crack in my soul or like my so my life was granulating away like sand through an hourglass into this this Kraken that was like an abyss and I felt so old and so tired old like the sand of Egypt I I remember feeling and my friend looked at me all the way in the house and I turned to her and I said so what what do you want out of life she said a nice husband nice car nice kids and all this and I opened my now and from deep inside of me it was it was visceral was like pardon the words it was like Mohammed II who came so deep it was so visceral out of my mouth came the words for the first time that formulated my quest if there's a God in heaven won't he please please please let me know what I don't have in my heart that makes me so sad she stared at me I got up out of the seat I walked out I went home I fell into bed I woke up it was morning the sweet forgetfulness of this quest that had now taken me 11 years that was making my life horrible I had no peace finally I made a telephone call to a friend the week of December 3rd 1973 in which he had said call me when you finish reading this stuff about Einstein so we're jumping from about August to now December and a little detail here and then jump to the Bernadette incident um I remember a voice said I was feeling so peaceful and quiet and a voice said we might remember that I was supposed to call Jerry and I said oh no I'm I'm so peaceful and quiet I think I want to just go to bed and then a boy said no call Jerry I said no I'm not going to call Jerry I'm tired I'm going to bed right now and I started down the hallway and there was this sweet attraction as I turned to look into the do and I turned to look into the din and I walked in and I picked up the phone and I must have dialed his number and first thing I remember myself saying was Jerry this talk about Einstein and cosmology and he said later on he told me that he knew by the Holy Spirit at that moment that what I needed to know about Jesus Christ and he said he said lots of things I've never him saying only three things he said God created the universe by his son I had never in my life heard words like that they came out of the phone and they created this world around me that was wonderful and then he said hello hello are you there I said yes he said well why don't you ask him into your heart right now I I felt further isolated from the time and place where I was in the den in my mother's house and I could feel this gaze of God upon me and I felt this golden rain falling through me and I was so happy so happy and he said hello hello are you there I said yes he said well why don't you go to bed and I'll see you tomorrow I guess I wasn't too responsive and I walked into the bedroom and I I fell into bed and suddenly it was morning and this room I had lived in for 11 years with his sky-blue walls look like chunks of sky I remember I was startled by it I what is dad I I got up to go touch the wall and my hands came into view my hands look like the hands of a baby and I went oh my knee and I went over to the wall and I didn't know whether my hand would go through the wall or not and I touched the world and at the moment I touched it I realized I wasn't breathing and I sucked in an air and Marcus there was a breeze it went into my mouth and nose and it filled my chance with a field of green grass and and a breeze blowing across it and sky with white clouds and the breeze then returned out of my mouth and it was the name Jesus and I could not stop saying his name I said Jesus you are the one Jesus you are the one and I said his name over and over again louder and louder and I ran out of my room and I grabbed my mother who was fixing breakfast I said mom it's Jesus it's Jesus and I've been looking for it's Jesus my mother had no idea what I know asked me at the time and I got my clothes on I ran to school that couldn't wait to see Jerry and I remember as I turn our high school had 3,000 students in in it so finding Jerry was a bit of a time and happy to see him at the long end of one of these hallways that we had long hallways and I turn and I looked at him now my friend Jerry it's been a night of worry wondering well what have I got myself into you know these Christian people theythey little baby Christians they want to be nursed all the time you gotta change their diaper they always crying he said when he saw my face walking toward him he said oh the doubt left him and I got up to Jerry and I couldn't smile bright enough and I said Jerry I know Jesus Christ I know Jesus Christ and I said so now what do we do that we know Jesus Christ what do we do now that we know Jesus Christ he said well we read the Bible so we went to get a Bible and I remember that day and whatever Jerry said it was gospel to me I remember whatever he said was gospel but that was just the beginning and there was this hunger that continued remember I have no intellectual training it all starts at that moment I'm about ready to go to college I happened to be a little Christian College from my house I start going to college and I learn all these things that everybody else takes for granted I didn't know that there was a Catholic Church or a Protestant church or church history or anything so I'm learning all this stuff and I have no prejudices and I have these encounters with God along the way through the four years that keep me moving in a Catholic action we don't have time for me to tell you them but they keep moving in this Catholic direction no matter what Protestant book I read no matter what course I took I became increasingly Catholic these were not courses that were designed to make you ecumenical with the Catholic Church sometimes I didn't even pay attention to the Catholic Church no matter what it was I became increasingly Catholic and encountered the Eucharist along the way the teaching and so forth eventually I made the decision to become Lutheran because of a discovery I made of the the body and blood of Jesus Christ real quickly put it was I was at the disciples of Christ Seminary across from the University of Kentucky I graduated from Asbury seminary I knew Greek and I knew Hebrew and I was pondering over a text of the Maius Road I was thinking about something Francis Schaeffer had said about the passage who's a who was a Christian apologist a Protestant guy and I was pondering over the passage and all of a sudden like lightning heating I realized that the bread and wine are the body and blood of Jesus Christ I remember I jumped up out of the chair and I hit the table I said yes yes it is the body and blood of Jesus Christ and I'm kind of loud in the library so I had to claim him and that moment led me I the thought was right afterwards you need to associate yourself with Eucharistic minded Christians and my limited education still having no experience with the Catholic Church I was thinking a Catholic Anglican Lutheran Orthodox limited to Lutheran in a north of the Orthodox and the Anglican right away Lutheran's and Catholics were left didn't know anybody that was those things looked in the telephone book for the Lutheran's I had one class on Luther at the seminary maybe I would start there when I made the decision to become come Lutheran I realized that this was not the end but I said the in the end is what so I go to a Lutheran seminary I'm in Columbus Ohio and I they become increasingly Catholic I'm defending the Holy Father John Paul the second in this class you know because it's so for me I'm reading Luther backwards as opposed to Luther forward so I'm becoming increasingly Catholic and I they send me to New York City while I'm in New York City I meet father rut ler I mean father Newhouse late father Newhouse and these guys rutledge Catholic new house is not new house as far as I know not thinking of being Catholic but this faithful event happening which is the end of the story I was at home for lunch and I had prayed the rosary which was my habit praying the rosary I had prayed it with the crucifix I did the first five beads on the five wounds of Christ and then I took the cross and with the second five beads put those on the places on my body and said my rosary like that I walked out of there out of the bedroom I walked down the hallway I was going in the kitchen in his kitchen lots of times could see it clearly in front of me through the doorways I put my foot down across the threshold I was not in the kitchen but I was in the very friends looking at the incredible body of Saint Bernadette which I think they have a picture of to show them and I was the picture the picture of her body in the under the altar there the long way of it was how I saw it at the time and there was a voice of the Lord in this place and the Lord said Noah what do you see I looked and there was the body of a woman and she's a nun and I said you didn't know anything about burden I knew a very little bit I just knew a very little bit just a very very little bit and what do you see Noah and I said I see a woman who loved you dearly and then he said at second time Noah what do you see and I looked more peering Leigh at her body and it seemed like I could see down the tunnel of her life and I saw where she died how they had washed her body and clothed there and buried her like all the other nuns in that convent but but here her body was over a hundred years old as I hadn't decomposed and then I came out of my reverie and I said Lord I see that you have the power to prevent the corruption of death you know her body you could see it on this thing if they show it on the TV there and then he said a third time Noah what do you see I looked more peering Lee and I'm down the tunnel of her life and I got to the point where she came forward as a nun to receive our Lord on her top I could see the priest take our Lord and reach forward to put on her tongue at the mama D put our Lord on her tongue I realized that that was a difference between her life and mine that that was it and I came out on me musings and I said Lord Lord I see that the Roman Catholic sacraments give what they promised I see I see I was aware of being moved across this distance I felt distance for the first time and I was suddenly back where I was at the threshold of the door and I realized I had just become Roman Catholic and that I need to lay down the works of the Lutheran altar because they were not the works of the church and I gave my resignation that week or the next and when they got things sorted out I moved on I went to Columbus Ohio I went to Holy Name Catholic Church which is in the north end of High Street in Columbus Ohio and father William Rikard received me and my daughter into the church I want to make sure you finish up the story because when did you discover that that vision was Bernadette because that was later right I mean at the time I knew how do I say this I knew the person who it was but I didn't call their name to mind okay I I knew that I said this is somebody obviously it's Bernadette subsequent to that she has continued to make yourself the form my Catholic life she takes a personal interest in my life even before that moment I've discovered and certainly after that moment as for example as we said at the top of the show you pulled a date out of the air to ask me to come on for the first time it was April 16th here we are talking about how she converted me neither you or I are aware that it's our feast day it's not the feast day of Lourdes is the feast day of Saint Bernadette and when we have the halftime I'm not halftime but the medal is show the guys in the cameras and you guys know what feast day this is we did not when they said Bernadette that was significant because as you may know I was inclined not to believe they wanted me to work here and it took Bernadette to make convince me that I should be working at EWTN that's another story and this is the year Bernadette right yeah they're going this previously it was 150 years of the apparitions at Lourdes and now at Lourdes it's the year of Bernadette and she is quite the lady in my life I'm gonna mention a book I think we already got some emails and some phone calls coming in because you've mentioned a lot of things in your story so if we have an email or a phone call that fits right away we'll go with it but I wanted to mention a book I've mentioned it before on the journey home but it's a book called a holy life the writings of Saint Benedict of Lords by Patricia a mikekim I think is her name me Mick eeeek Mickey current Meck Meck occurrence it would be quite Kappa I'm gonna get it wrong and I apologize Patricia but it's available on the religious catalogue if you interested in finding out about you can call one 800 850 four six three one six the reason I mention that book it has a little bit of the history in the beginning of the book just to fill you in on the background but the reason I like this book I think you read it to know is that I mean this is Bernadette's private diary her private reflection journal some of her private letters that she never intended to be published and so what we see is the the unencumbered simplicity of her faith yes that's right yeah there are lots of books about Bernadette where the author tries to give you Bernadette but obviously there between you and her but here you get to read her letters translated into English for the first time yeah and they're wonderful to read you pick up her personality and her love of Jesus Christ her love of the faith and her love of her brothers and sisters too right yeah I highly recommend the book for good spiritual reading we have an email already this comes from Dolores from New Jersey dear no I understand that Saint Bernadette converted you to the Catholic Church in 1988 and has continued to play a significant role in your Catholic formation also we have had 150 years since the apparitions at Lourdes I wonder if you could give us your thoughts on their relevance of st. Benedict for says York Times with probably our times is probably yeah thanks Dolores Freeman it would seem to me that Bernadette is relevant for our times because of our simplicity and honesty we live in a time when there's a great many things are competing for our attention and we're all aware of spin how things get spun around and it's difficult to know what is real and what is true we see our children gobbled up by games where they watch a screen rather than look out the window they don't know how to go out and play in the dirt and this so forth because they are more inclined to watch a TV screen Bernadette reminds us that encounters with God require us to if you will be simple and honest about what we're seeing she's not complicated she reveals that when God comes to us he's someone that delights our heart but if we're looking at a television screen where things are constantly spun rather than looking out the window looking out at the things of nature to delight in real people we understand how that where we are or where how that our phones and stuff create a greater and greater distance between us and physical people Bernadette is someone that indicates physical physical proximity between like her and the Blessed Mother is where the light is now watching the song of Bernadette on television is wonderful going to Lourdes is better now watching the Ignatius press version about Bernadette is great but going to NAVAIR and seeing Bernadette now that's another matter entirely because there you become a witness you become a witness of something that affects you I I I find that I have to sometimes remind myself and my friends you know when you're setting at a table and you've got a drink at your elbow and it's cool and air-conditioned you can think of all kinds of questions and things to ask that cast skepticism on something but I'm inclined to say to a person at that moment well if you were there you would understand that those questions are not relevant because if you were there you would see all the particulars that make the difference or why you don't think that but you think this while you while you question this way and not that way but when you're just sitting here and you're cool and you're in your environment or you're near coffee shop you know go there see what I saw and then see what what questions come to your mind this last Sunday well yesterday I was out walking around on our farm I've got to put a new fence in on one side of one of our pastures and all that's left is a few old fence posts and I was out trying to determine where the straightness of this fence line needs to be and when I was standing looking at the end post you know it's hard to see where the line is because you look back in this direction look in this direction right okay and you can make that any way you want to go depending high turn but when I walked farther down and looked through the remaining posts to the end post I could see exactly where the fence was because I was lining these old posts up to the end post that's what the Saints are yes in our relationship to Jesus because you know we look through their lives we can get a stronger direction and how were to follow Christ without some of these models for us or for that without their intercession we're off on our own trying to figure out how to follow Jesus but when you look through Bernadette and her life and her words liking this especially when you when you're looking at Christ through yes the Blessed Mother yes then you can really see especially the direction of sacrifice the it's important to remember it's the encounter with the real that makes the difference for all the cleverness of media and of art seeing the real that's why American Catholics should go on pilgrimages as often as they can and our pilgrimage sites around the United States the encounter with the real is where we get a chance to see and think things that we might not easily do otherwise I think of a friend of mine when I first became a Catholic these are Protestant friends of mine still very good friends that I was telling how I just discovered that I have all these saints praying for me and and they felt compelled to say well don't you think they might read you from Jesus and I kind of puzzled over and I said how can somebody in heaven lead me away from Jesus talk about somebody around the corner you know who might lead me from Jesus people who aren't they're going to lead me from Jesus well my gosh I don't think that's gonna happen we have a call from Joe in New York hello Joe what's your question for us I'm Marcus great show thanks um I was wondering what no one could tell me about the Lutheran's for thoughts on the Blessed Virgin Mother her Immaculate Conception the conception of Jesus the assumption and the coronation all right thank you Joe ah wow that's a tall order all those things I've been 20 years away from the Lutheran Church and it's changed since I was in it but let me begin with some of the things we know about Luther we know that Luther had a great admiration for the Blessed Mother and as far as we can tell none of the major doctrines about her that he cast out that it is he didn't say well you know I don't think that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived he held as far as I knew he held all those things still in his hand but the lieutenant had personal devotion oh yes he did was he doing the but nowadays the Lutheran Church like all the churches are battling with this phenomena called higher criticism and it goes by other names in which the Bible is disassociated from faith in looked upon only as a historical document and so consequently you find different churches where they questioned the virgin birth they questioned the they questioned Mary being immaculately conceived herself because they think the scripture is bear witness to something else but this is a looking at scripture not as a document it is but as something of their own creation and our early fathers spoking what spoken well about this in his book Jesus of Nazareth so contemporarily though you can find Lutheran's that run the whole gamut because as far as I remember when I was in inter Lutheran Church did not say all Lutheran's are going to believe this about Mary so you can find depending on your Lutheran pastor or your Lutheran friends those who were agreeable to Mary and versus those who aren't agreeable to Mary and those who aren't we'll do so because they have the presumption that to ask Mary's help is to somehow put Mary between you and you and Jesus they fail to understand that you know it's the case that how do you say this that Jesus doesn't when Jesus sent John the Baptist's when Jesus sent the Apostles you didn't say well I want to talk to Jesus directly no you took the apostle that came to you whether it was Paul or Peter and you had them pray for you had them help you I know how many of my Protestant friends are willing to call the 700 club and have Pat pray for them well what if I were to say well aren't you putting Pat between you and Jesus you know they would go what are you talking about now Pat Robertson gets answers to prayers I'm going well yeah as I said mother does too gets answers to prayers you know here's a let's do this they they need to be reminded of those things on the other hand those people that are that are Protestant say but they Lutheran are generally Protestant have thoughts about Mary and their thoughts about Mary could flower more if they would bring themselves to the Catholic Church and see what the church presents about Marian and then say Mary who I know and love make me more aware of the wonders your son has done in you for his glory lead me on lead me on because I only want to be have the happiness that your son promised I know you've been out of Lutheran's for 20 years and I've been out for even longer because that was my childhood faith but as I look back it seemed that the thing that Luther did was he put that first niche in the rope the cut that started fraying things in terms of our trust trusting tradition yes he did I mean that was kind of the beginning yeah but I do you can't trust tradition even though he himself continued with his Catholic beliefs that he had had from tradition but with each succeeding generation that frayed Nisour the Rope got more and more and more until you have a complete gambit you know the complete distrust of any tradition whatsoever a strong credo Lutheranism and some a very high church very highly traditional uther assumed it's across the board yeah that's right the yes it's wonderful to realize that the church provides us this had the battles against the modern secular culture just like all the other churches does do but she has maintained the line you can go to traditional I remember the Lutheran body I was a part of you know raise questions about whether whether almost sexual acts were sinful or not that would seem to be a closed closed issue we read the Bible that's available but they they're asking questions about well what does the Bible teach maybe there really isn't a sin and they have all their reasons for that well are the Catholic Church has maintained because it's not it's not dislike of someone it is it isn't wanting the person to be really happy to experience the happiness of Christ brings the donek happiness to church conjures up in you is that happiness that only comes if the person that founded her does what he does well which is to give us what he promised in this life to give us the things he promised in this life these are things that both Protestants and Catholics have to appeal to Jesus for because he holds all things in his hands like it says he has all the stars in his hands and he will give us things that they are beyond our imagination always leading us on always leaving this one and we'll find as we let on that we cross the Tiber all right let's pause right there no time for a break we've seen a bit some of your questions for now hey welcome back to the journey home no an hour just you're talking having a good time but welcome back our guest tonight's no less thank you no for you than summarizing your journey it's hard to do that I mean the audience can go to the website and get the first journey home program when you were my guest well it's to give them more detailed of that but but it's always hard to take in fact before I go to any other questions I want you to think about this it's been ten years since you've really been on the program and one thing I've noticed personally but I've also knows from other converts that I know that sometimes the original reasons for coming into the church change over the years and as you become a Catholic and you recognize the beauty you work your way through and you that after five six eight ten twenty years there are other reasons that have almost risen to the top as some of the more beautiful reasons why you're a Catholic that might be different than the reason it came in the first place that happened to you at all those are new new discoveries well I can talk about something very recent that has been a new discovery what I came into the church I was very I was trained at two seminaries in biblical studies with new Testament emphasis and so I was inclined to think of everything in terms of exegetical work I didn't read anything but I didn't think exegetically about it well one of the things that my friends before I became Catholic and afterward tried to interest me in were the Liturgy of the hours you know and you read the any like the morning office I'm used to things highly woven together like any gospel story like say the wedding at Cana it's all highly woven together and tightly done so that he rewards a certain kind of looking for those those things well the morning prayer is anything but highly woven together it's got a lot of little pieces that are sort of collage together I was not prepared to read that and do the Liturgy of the hours when I came into the church because I was still looking for it to be like the Bible here recently about four months ago I received the gift of the Liturgy of the hours I realized that I had changed and that the church beside giving me the Bible has also given me Liturgy of the hours in liturgy the hours making where it's sort of like this when you read the Bible you can read it and there can be a difference between doing it and thinking about it but the Liturgy of the hours you're either doing it or you're not you know because you say those those things yeah you can be studying them academically but everybody sees it you're not saying the Liturgy of the hours all you're doing is you're studying the the Psalms or something but what what you realize is that the Liturgy of the hours I do them I say these Psalms it doesn't when you do exegesis you think well do I have an adequate theory that combines together the two Testaments so that I can answer all the problems that are between the two Testaments so you might avoid some of those passages that make it difficult to join the two Testaments Liturgy of the hours don't ask you that they say they put Old Testament New Testament together like a psalm or something and say read this said you don't have to understand how they go together to experience the goodness it brings you I finally realize the 20 years I realized this I realized this I realized that you know when you do exegesis you go yeah Dave Urban says that I should always make sure I read the passage in his historical environment at the time and I think yeah it's a lot of hard work liturgy hours take Psalm 22 and say it doesn't say do you have you have adequate historical knowledge of the of the exegetical other linguistic historical background of this you just says read it and it says you don't have to know all that to do this because the words will become yours and there will be a meeting between you and the psalm 23 person Psalm 24 and everybody knows that was Psalm 20 Lord is my shepherd how many people stop and think I can't read this because I have no idea what the shepherd was like you know back and when they wrote this and you just do it and you experience the goodness this is a great gift I love saying morning evening prayer and I tried to do the ones in-between not because somebody says okay you better do this it's because it expresses my heart sometimes people wonder how is it the case that you can do all those Catholic liturgical or external things well let me ask you this if your wife is a good wife to here what good wife say I don't want any of the external zuv love I only want you to internally feel love for me try to get by with that on Valentine's Day you know and see where you sleep you know my wife wants me to be internally in love with there and externally showing what if I were to say but what we've been doing things we've been doing there Valentine's Day here for 30 years we've been married 30 years me and my wife so maybe this is too external form thing we don't want to do this we want to do it other way Martha go are you nuts I want my candy I want my other stuff on Valentine's Day give it to me he'll you're a Good Wife will see to you what about on your birthday can you say we've been doing your birthday and you say your wife's age made me lowly and we've been doing this for so long maybe this is external ritual we shouldn't do it anymore no our Lord is no less a person than my wife the liturgy the hours give me a way of expressing my love I do not always know what to say but I find these words when I realized that Jesus said all the Psalms he said to song they were his words he found he found that he could say these songs I'm saying the words that Jesus said and I'm experiencing the goodness that come this is wonderful I mean this is what is a new gift to me now after 20 weird yeah yeah I remember the first time that it really clicked with me that these inspired words were originally intended for liturgy yes not just not primarily for study that's right that's right liturgy that's where they came about the New Testament was what was to be read in the mass that was the point of the New Testament all right let's take our next caller Juan from Michigan hello Juan what's your question okay my question is to the Congress mr. Lett yeah my question is why do we pray this thing knowing that all all of us are dead until we're risen from the grave and I'm Catholic and I'm not criticizing at school but that is one question that all through the Scriptures there's only the only speaker one person that was took in to him I know the Virgin Mary's in heaven because she's a mother of Christianity so there's no doubt in my mind as to why we pray or her and I also realize that a lot of our belief is based on faith thank you was my question thank you one you're praying to the Saints with foundation for that well I'm going to start in an unusual place then we can come to the scripture passages the question about praying to the Saints can appear to be merely a question of like lawyers looking up a text that but can I you people often think if I was smart enough Florida I could find the text to prove anything I want to prove you know and we see on TV where they find some technical thing and they make it seem as if law was derived only from what is written that there's no original source that is greater than a book for the source of the law now the question about are there saints in heaven is a question he asked he said he thought people were dead until they were risen and only Mary and Jesus are actually in heaven now and everybody else is waiting to be in heaven well first of all we look at the historical record Mary appeared the Saint Bernadette in Lourdes Mary appeared to and you can get this the list of the apparition sites it's it's not just the question of looking in the text and seeing if I can find it in the text because everything in the Bible is true but not everything that's true is in the Bible yeah there's the there's even the struggle and I appreciate why it's question but sometimes I hesitate to jump on giving you scriptural evidence because it sometimes it gives the acceptance of that Bible only I mean yeah yes because in reality that the background of praying to the Saints is first of all in some ways I almost wish we just put the word st. aside for a second because in other words what we're talking about are is there we believe in the resurrection yes do we believe in the resurrection and do we believe in the resurrection then do we believe that there are people that by God's grace experience the the presence of God now through their spirit and one day we'll be reunited with their body and the ultimate resurrection we believe that's a part of what we say in the Creed yeah we believe that to be true and the the what's happened is the the Reformation made that that split in the constant tradition that always believed that we were truly United with those that have gone beyond so Nate was natural to be asking for the intercession based in revelations based on second Maccabees based on you know the transfiguration when Christ is there we know he's there with yes Elijah and Moses it's a valuable point to make about this is that the scriptures reflect what is real that's the emphasis the holy father makes in any number of his recent writings that the Catholic the faith the scripture here is about historical real things that happened this is not a fantasy book it these are about things that really happen so that the text is a witness about something that's experienced about a Jesus who was real so so for example there's a story a little this there's the forget it's an Eastern European country it might have been like if the name escapes me this guy was an abortion provider he was he did abortion thousands of abortions the guy would have this dream where he saw this field with all these children and when he go toward him they would run and he saw eventually after the third dream or something a guy in white with black who never who didn't speak to him until one time he asked he the person said to him in the dream so would you like to know why those children are running from you he said well yes and the person said because these are the children you aborted and then he asked the person the person said who he was he said who are you the man said I'm Thomas Aquinas at that point he realized with this event after the dream happened three or four more times he he realized that he needed to stop doing abortions and so what happened he woke up that day saying I'm not going to do abortions anymore unfortunately he had a temptation that day that came of his cousin or somebody that wanted to him do an abortion for his girlfriend or something and he did it anyway and when he happened to bring the baby out having chopped it up he realized it was a real baby and that's when he stopped concretely doing abortions now the question is do we need to look in here to see what the man said no the man's own acts show that he has met something that was real Thomas Aquinas he is now in the church he's given up all the luxuries and perks he had from being a great abortion provider for this Eastern European nation what about my Bernadette experience I'm supposed to say because I don't see in there some pastor said thou shalt pray to Saints I'm gonna say oh no this can't be real I met her and I am here now because I met this person named Bernadette who was alive now when we reduce it to being merely a thing about well I can only read what's in the Bible and nothing else outside the Bible can be true everything that's in the Bible is true but not everything that's true is in the Bible I was just thinking that desire if I were listening to the program back in my old Protestant days and I might think we're running around trying to avoid the issue but I one thing I think about that I learned to appreciate in the Catholic faith is that from the beginning you have this wonderful actually we talked about the three the legged stool of the tradition the scriptures and then the Spirit led church the Magisterium Union Magisterium in union with the Holy Father guided by the Holy Spirit and the danger is with the split and the Reformation the the whole emphasis went to a questioning over the authority of the church as trustworthy and a questioning of the authority of tradition as trustworthy and leaving the Bible only and so we end up with the questions of show it to me in the Bible well the danger with that is I can show you two in the Bible but how you interpret that or not is going to make all the difference because there's not the trustworthy tradition to guide the interpretation of that nor the spirit guided church to help you understand tradition as well as Scripture and we sometimes we have the other experience which is I don't care what the Bible says I've got my experience yeah you know you know this one deliberate someone who said I had a vision of whatever but well it's yeah but how do I know that's true well we've got to look at and test the experience in relationship to the Word of God in light of the tradition guided by the teaching of the church all three are necessary those that have thrown out the church and have a tradition a particular creed that they hold to end the we'll still I mean there's thousands of Protestant churches that have a Creed and the Bible yeah but are they true is it accurate and so that's why we make sure all three and it's praying to the Saints has been a part of that trying but from the very beginning the church has helped us understand which people we can ask for intercession and how we are to intercede that's part of our tradition to make sure that we interpret the scripture correctly and praise it or to make sure we understand praying the Saints correctly it's not necromancy correct it's not spiritism correct so we see that balance you said it very well these three witnesses Bernadette is the people did not see what Bernadette saw she was the witness of something that was there how did they know what was there was real because they saw how Bernadette life was conducted how do you know that what I saw was real I'm with the Holy Father I'm here with the Holy Father that's how you know it is Jesus said as we all know by their fruits you shall know them and we know that you can take that in some way that strange and bizarre or you can look at what's in front of look at your life look at mine look at Scott Hans look at Mother Angelica did Mother Angelica really hear from God we're here it's here these things cannot be overlooked final point you know people often want to know you know was it the case that Mary had other children well they're kind of go to the Bible and try to find where Mary says he says brothers or sisters or cousin well you know first of all it's a historical question because if you lived when she was around you could go ask her you could go ask the neighbors and find out whether she had other children or not when people make it merely a matter well how do you interpret the word brother or sister in that passage they leave aside the other two things that are important for determining the historical event that happened that the Bible is a witness of and that the church is a witness of the Holy Father said very clearly we are not people of a book we are people of a person the person is Jesus Christ I must know this person because he makes all the difference in the world he makes all the difference in the world thank you let's see we get one more email account from Virginia writes and this looks good nice challenging question fraeno after the majority of Catholics voted for a pro-choice president what do you as a Catholic and an afro african-american think this says about our nation and our church Thank You Colin this is a wonderful challenge because I experienced probably less and other people do that because this pro-abortion president happens to be black when you see when you talk about his policies as a pro-abortion policies you run the risk of being called a racist I wanted if I challenged him too much yeah and also it's a challenge for the African American Catholic because here you are maybe the only black Catholic in your family and everybody else is planning to go to the inauguration and you're not planning to go whenever I want to know why you're not going isn't it a great achievement that black president United States well it's a great challenge it challenges us to on the one hand show real understanding of the achievement like our Holy Father did who called and congratulate him but in the other hand learn how to talk about pro-life things so that we can how do you say we can make it clear that as Catholics we are speaking in favor of the man and in favor of women and children we aren't we aren't racist final point about how how I do this I when I I seek out the opportunity to talk with people about that but like that and I'll say well you know would you think that being black is is a means that you're free from our error and harm do you think that a black person needs Jesus Christ and to confess their sins well well yeah well do you pray that Obama's sins he confessed them to Christ well yes well don't don't you think maybe he has some sins well yes well do you think that aborting children is sin well you know they might back off on that point but you start with the question does being black meaning that he does everything right no it doesn't and I often tell my my friends quote me quote me or quote someone else was black that raises these questions about what Obama is doing because it is a wonderful opportunity you know it gives me a chance to bring something up number of weeks ago and I had Paul shank we were talking about pro-life issues and it was just in the beginning of January the month of the pro-life issues I made a comment about that I couldn't quite understand why blacks given your heritage and what you've been through in this country to be recognized to get to get your freedom I mean it's yes we've fought battles you fought badly I couldn't understand why then blacks so many are pro-choice now someone called good viewer and said I was saying a racist statement and the sad thing is no I wasn't I was just talking about data and I don't want to talk about that why are so many blacks pro-choice my I know we're at the end and I'll quickly say this the issue is white and Hispanic Catholics stop at the color line and do not proceed beyond it to tell black Americans about the Catholic Church one of the reasons that they are so pro-abortion is because they don't know about the Catholic Church and the reasons it gives us for doing these things we're being pro-life because when you stop at the color line a black person is more likely to have a Catholic Hispanic or white person as their neighbor than a black Catholic and if we don't cross that color line they don't become informed about why they shouldn't do this if we want to make it clear that we are for life and not against the achievements of any race we should do something like that we should make it clear we should make it clear that the so much to say I can't let them let them talk to their black priests in the area now they'll know well let me ask with what maybe some times the reason that that whites are hesitant to ask blacks to their church is because they presumed banks won't like it because they see what usual black worship is like well they're not gonna like what's going on here at our church don't let that stop you don't let that stop you it's Jesus's problem I'm not yours you present and let Jesus work on them you don't know how they're going to respond you don't know what Christ will do but I think everyone I answer because I know from our previous discussions that you're really advocate of the fact that we don't change the mass to try and appeal to blacks that's correct we keep it the way it is so that they know what they're saying yes or no to we present them with something that isn't catholic and they say no to it I would say no to something that wasn't Catholic either let them see real Catholicism so they can say yes or no to it as it is and we may find that they say yes all right then we need to pray for them I mean pray for them Ezra all the struggles they haven't ended right hello no I often I end this program I've got like a minute left let's say there's a Lutheran out there watch and what would you like to say to them why should they make the same journey home you claim you have a hunger for Christ that's why you're genuinely Christian and you're maybe Lutheran at this point ask Christ to give you feed your hunger and be open to where he will lead you if you're not open to where he will lead you then why ask him to give you what give you what you need if you're going to ask him to give you what you need let him guide you on and without preconditions on your part and maybe especially a black viewer about their interest in the Catholic faith well it's so much to say they're called EWTN and ask for me or ask for other people who work here and we will give you reasons why you should consider the Catholic Church as a better option than you've ever thought before and know thanks a lot my plan thank you thank you for work here I do appreciate your work and you know giving us that the theological back ground because when you do a programs but you do a live one you want to make sure that you're not you know running off in left field so I appreciate your work thank you for joining us on this episode again as Noah said if you want to find out more questions about anything we've talked about please consider contacting EWTN ewtn.com you can email Noah there and find out about any of your questions that are lots of answers on the ewtn website god bless you before being with you again next week

Channel: EWTN

Views: 16,120

Rating: 4.8798285 out of 5

Keywords: Catholic, EWTN, Christian, television, Lutheranism (Religion), Pastor

Id: _HX5fTPHJRE

Length: 56min 24sec (3384 seconds)

Published: Thu Feb 12 2015