MCU: Wanda Will Be The Next Thanos Level Villain

[Music] hello everyone welcome to another episode of cbr saga west view's favorite podcast wait no no i'm sorry i mean i mean uh east view's favorite podcast there's no such thing as westview anyways today's discussion is all about the mcu's next big bad and no it's not gonna be another giant purple being from outer space sorry galactus fans but rather it's gonna be one of the avengers own is wanda poised for a trip to the dark side we say absolutely today we'll talk about how wanda's current circumstances are setting her up for an evil turn what that means for the mcu going forward and ultimately why this is the best possible thing for the future of the mcu it's gonna be a big episode so let's get right into it i'm joined by my co-host nick nick how you doing today doing good jacoby thank you for uh having me once again of course any time so first and foremost nick what are your thoughts about about wanda overall i actually really like juan i like the character of scarlet witch from the comics in general so i was really excited when she was gonna be brought to the movies i didn't think she had the best intro i didn't think her and quicksilver had the best intro in age of ultron but i think what the mcu has done brilliantly is take a character who's basically been on the side and making her the most interesting character in the universe right now i think absolutely especially for where we are with this start of phase four in one division wanda has definitely become front and center and that's pretty amazing when you think about it because i agree i think she i don't want to say mishandled but kind of mishandled for like the first part right because her powers have always been super ill-defined i mean like what's that uh maria hill just just calls her weird and like that's about that's about the extent of what we get about how her powers operate and even though she's been super important i guess going through like a lot of her movies i mean if you start with with age of ultron she's like she gets the big hero moments at the end where she turns from the uh bad side to the good side you know she's basically the catalyst for for civil war and now especially with um and then she's the one who has to make the really tough sacrifice in infinity war by by killing vision i mean like for all these big character moments that she has she's kind of been like still a very minor character what do you think yeah no you're all right in many ways she's not really ever been the focus uh until now obviously and she honestly more than any other character even thor like the only other one i was thinking of who who might have been through more was maybe thor but she's lost so many people and she hasn't lost them all at the same time so it's like she loses someone but then she's like at least i have this other person loses that person okay at least i found this new and loses that person she's been through a rough time so to go through all those things to be where she is mentally is not something many people can relate to but it's it's awesome because it means they can sort of go anywhere with it right because and to have that much i guess grief and and trauma in your life is is definitely traumatizing right i mean like it seems like every avengers movie or movie that she's in something bad is is happening to her i mean like again if you pile up everything that happened like the first before we even met her she's already lost to her parents then she's experimented on she loses her brother uh who is like her twin right so it's like it's losing someone like that is is devastating she feels the guilt about causing an act that divides the avengers apart then she finally finds love in this synthetic weapon uh vision and then she has to kill him herself only for her to uh watch as thanos brings him back to life and then murders her murders him in front of her i mean like that adds up yeah it does you even skipped a step in there where she saw her whole home her whole home country fall out of the sky oh i forgot that one of course so yeah no she's been through a rough time and that's why i think a turn to the dark side is logical i mean there's only so much a person can take before they finally say hey enough is enough like like like i i'm going to do something else about this and i think the mcu really presents an interesting opportunity by by turning uh juan to bad because it's not just like a traditional villain who's just straight up evil but it's a villain that has uh like a weight to it like a reason behind it and that you can kind of feel for and feel sympathetic for it's like yeah i just when you look at it you're just like yeah i wonder why she hasn't turned evil before you know totally well the thing with heroes and villains is they're basically the same they're with one difference it's what they choose to do post tragedy because most heroes start out with a tragedy that's why there's this trope of like no one's no hero's parents are safe because you need some sort of tragedy to make this person make a choice whereas villains are sort of similar if you look at someone like zemo he lost his family and chose to become a villain so what's interesting with wanda is she did sort of choose to become a villain granted like it wasn't her heart wasn't in it i guess it's a good way to put it yeah uh when she like lost her parents and and became uh powered along with her brother she did choose to side with ultron but once she saw ultron's true motives she actually chose the good side but you're right it brings up such an interesting question of a hero who is chosen in the face of tragedy to do all these good things but what does that hero do when even choosing to do good things doesn't pay off because you continue to experience all this tragedy like what is her breaking point i think we all have it i think all of us would have hit it at this point if we were in wanda's shoes so i think it's only natural that eventually she says hey this hero gig isn't working i keep losing people i love i keep losing places i love uh things keep going wrong maybe i should try something different exactly and yeah i'd say we all have that breaking point i would lost mine like her first instance of tragedies like yep i'm turning evil like that's like that's it so i'm i'm really impressed that she's that she's gone this far [Music] but that kind of sets us up for we won't be talking too much about the events of of one division itself but we can we can we can kind of discuss where she's going to be at the end of this and i think it's going to be uh interesting we can kind of theorize about how things are going to uh impact the rest of the mcu going forward and i kind of always figure that one division um a way for them to go in order to turn wanda into like a bad guy and a villain is kind of her um i think there's two ways to go i guess first and foremost it's like one at the end of one division she can be like ah she embraces the dark side right just like this is this is my universe that she says it's like and you can't take this away from me and i'm gonna stay here and i'm gonna do whatever it takes to protect this universe no matter what and that kind of sets her at odds with uh with you know the people and the og universe who it's like maybe maybe her universe threatens the existence of of our world like they can't coexist together and that creates overlap and everything like that and that kind of is like and wanda's like at the end of the day why would i defend that world when the world that i created is you know has everything that i want so it's like i'm tired of losing everything i'm gonna fight for this one what do you think of that option i guess option one uh i i like that option yes cause um again not going too deep into the events but the whole premise of wanda vision is she is in this world that is different from ours where this tragedy hasn't that we're talking about hasn't exactly happened to her yet or or at all or will happen like it's she this is her ideal world taking that away from someone who again has had thing after thing after thing taken away from her uh is is a perfectly reasonable thing to to think that she would then say okay i need to defend this this is the last thing i'm holding on to if you take this from me i promise you i will turn into a villain so don't do that i'm warning you uh but what do you think do you think there's there's a different way for her to to turn villainous that that makes sense yeah kind of so so what i've seen so far from wanda uh in her entire existence is she's a hero but she loves some good revenge when she she joined ultron in the first place because she blames tony stark for the death of her parents she kills ultron pretty menacingly because she feels her brother's death at the hands of ultron she attacks thanos when she comes back and says you took everything for me those most powerful moments that we see that we've seen of wanda are when she is out for the person who did her wrong so i think if you give sort of a catalyst maybe not even taking the world away but but doing something to her taking something someone away maybe taking vision away again uh maybe taking her kids away something like that if you put that sword the the organization in that sort of spot of taking something away from her we've already seen what she does to people uh in the moment when when she's sort of feeling that rage so i could see one instant making sword the bad guy in her eyes or maybe even in our eyes uh where she sort of has to become this villain and even though you know sword and the avengers are supposed to be the good guys they've done her wrong and we can see why she would want some revenge [Music] i think that'd be interesting for sure because i think that sets her up for a for a very fascinating trajectory overall if we move past like toward the future of just like of doctor strange and the multiverse of madness which we know wanda is going to factor in heavily when it was first announced that she would be a part of it i mean like all the all the the breakdowns and stuff were pretty convincing oh they're going to team up and they're going to jaunt through the multiverse kind of together there's kind of a synopsis going around there about a friend turning foe you know returning type thing and a lot of people are very quick and most likely it could be the case it's it's uh baron mordo right because that that just makes sense overall for dr strange's story but i like the narrative around it that that this is actually wanda's first turn to the dark side kind of at the end that doctor strange is going against wanda to either protect the multiverse timeline or or trying to trying to bring wanda back and he ultimately fails i mean do you think wanda could be the bad guy of a doctor strange movie i do and i think it'd be sort of fun if they maybe like set us up and teased us a little bit with mordo kind of how they did in captain america civil war with crossbones you know all the trailers we sort of thought crossbones was going to be a huge player and then he gets taken out right at the beginning yeah i think it'd be cool if they were like mordos this guy he's going around no more sorcerers and then wanda is like hey i'm gonna stop you and everyone's like oh wanda stopped him but then she's instead of being like yeah i stopped and she's sort of like well actually i'm gonna replace him and no more sorcerers no more heroes in general um things are gonna get crazy so i could definitely see that sort of flip happening at the beginning i i want the the mc to take a risk like that right i mean because as much as i love spider-man far from home it's like for the fact that they played up mysterio as a hero for so long and then didn't deliver any sort of twist like any sort of like twist in the comics because like everyone knew that he was going to be the villain of this movie like going forward so we had to spend half the movie thinking he was the hero and then he was just the villain and that was that so i would love for them to do a sort of a twist like that where baron mordo is is suspected to be this one who turns bad and one to stops him at the beginning and then and then wanda is going for the big bad trying to either protect the her own multiverse i keep going back to that point that that wanna wants to protect her own multiverse do you think that's that's like the ultimate and or like if they do something wrong to her multiverse and then she's trying to get revenge about that do you think that's that's the key to wanda's evilness i say with quotation marks i almost wonder if her multiverse or aspects of it are going to come back into our universe um like in the comics she does have kids and the kids uh become real they become part of our universe maybe vision stays alive and she gets vision back again but it causes some sort of rift with our universe so so maybe like not necessarily defending her own universe but the things she created in her universe becoming realities in our universe and for some reason the people in our universe are saying nope this doesn't belong this defies laws of nature we can't we can't have this so uh i your your thought process i think is right in the sense that she's defending something that that is hers that she holds dear uh because she just can't take any more loss like we've talked about yeah that you're definitely right that is a better way to phrase it because i've always thought i mean we even had theories in the past about how the x-men are going to be brought in to and like how mutants are going to be involved in everything and it's like supposed to be like a different universe type thing and it's i think an interesting through line would be if if if wanda is the one that we have like a reverse house of m type type of thing where instead of you know in the comics where she gets rid of all the mutants i think it'd be fun if she kind of creates all the mutants in our in our world in the sense with her powers and then if she does that and like these are her her beings i mean it's like she she created them she's responsible for them and then our government is like hey or side and even the avengers like hey this isn't right as you said like breaks the laws of of physics and time and and breaks you know everything with in terms of even what loki's dealing with with the tva type thing like all these entities are like hey this is wrong what you did and one is like well no because it's like i'm going to protect these people because i i'm responsible for them and if you want to come try to take them for me good luck like let's see what you got type thing i think that kind of creates a different type of villain right someone who's not just out i did keep using the word evil before but i think evil is the wrong word because she's she's just defending what she thinks is right and i think at the end of the day that's what creates the most interesting type of villain especially for the avengers to face i yeah no i actually love that because you know she could go evil like there could be that evil turn but she could also be a villain the same way i keep coming back to this movie one cause i love it but two because it has it has a lot of uh connections to other things but captain america's civil war the same way iron man is technically a villain in that not because he's like out to do evil or out to do bad things but because he believes what he believes and he's on his side and caps on his side and it creates conflict so i actually like what you just pitched a lot because it could lead into an avengers versus x-men sort of thing where wanda's like hey uh i created these people um i'm gonna i'm standing on their side and if you guys want to stop that because it defies nature and physics or whatever i'm going to stop you so you could create those two warring factions in a similar way that we got in captain america civil war just on a much grander scale i think that would be a cool parallel because then because then that basically could lead into a different type of uh an expansion of civil war too right as like two people are kind of on the sides of where this lies and then that kind of puts wanda in a very interesting upgrade from where she was because even though she was the catalyst in in the first civil war she wasn't really like a part of it right like it was it was really between captain america and iron man before if you if you have this new type of of warring factions between x-men the avengers that that causes the current avengers to like yeah we should protect these these x-men and some of them are like no we should get them out of here but that kind of puts wanda you know that vulture up into like the leading place on one of those sides and and just on a story wise perspective and a character perspective i think that's fascinating because i think that's just that's a great upgrade from where she was totally and just everything that we've been saying i do like that more because we are saying that yes wanda can be the big bad of the mcu but i think the way that we're presenting it is is is better than just making her straight up evil like her power corrupts her into just then she's just bad because i think that lacks a certain amount of pathos totally drives into that cliche of just you know hysterical woman turning evil because she lost things but it's like if you give her a reason to want to fight for these things and present the audience with a way of just like yeah you know she's kind of right in a sense she deserves to fight for this then i think that creates a great dynamic going forward yeah totally uh i i agree because you're right we would lose a lot of the emotional attachment to wanda if one day she just sort of decided uh i'm bad now and they've done such a good job building her up to being this character that we care about to the point when she lands against thanos and endgame and says you took everything from me the audience feels that and that's such an awesome moment because he has like she's already lost so much she finally loses the last thing she really cared about in vision um to the point where losing how much loss can one person take you know we've said it before uh but turning her into this person that has to protect something else she's created that she now cares about again because she knows what loss feels like that is a much more relatable quote-unquote villain if we focus on the avengers overall i think this is a great way to take the mcu by by putting the avengers against a friend right because like we've all we've seen before of avengers face like except in civil war really it's like you see our heroes face evil threats like flat out evil like like you know like loki first in the invasion he's evil gotta stop him ultron wants to destroy the world all right stop him thanos in the first one it's like kind of started to present that that sort of was like well he's not wrong like in like in a lot of ways like you can see his way of thinking and then in endgame he i i i wasn't a fan of how they how they regressed his character just like okay now i'm just going to destroy everything i'm back to being a like a like a full-on villain i lose all my emotional stuff which i guess i know you can make the case it's like it's a past thanos and they literally regressed him by about like five years yeah so it's like it makes sense it's like i get that but but all the villains that they face are just evil villains who want to destroy the world but by putting them against a one of their own who who knows them who who we've been around for so long to see go from hero to to a type of villain would be amazing because we as an audience would be like oh man we want do we want them to be defeated do we want wanda to be defeated and for her to lose do we want her to win do we want her to come back to the site of good it opens up these super fascinating story elements that i think is what the mcu kind of needs in terms of the difference between a hero and a villain thanos loki all zemo all these people could have been heroes had they made a different choice you know they experienced tragedy but they chose to do evil with it and i think to to reiterate it would be so interesting to see a person who has chosen the hero path wanda has chosen the hero path in the face of all this tragedy finally reach their breaking point and say the hero gig's not working for me i gotta start looking out for number one because when i don't do that people i love die things i love die places i love turn into meteors and and vaporize in the sky so so now i need to try something different i think that's something the mcu hasn't necessarily done yet that i think would be a really good route to take agreed because it's like instead of introducing someone you know just just like a new threat even like i i understand the the uh the thrill of having like a galactus or or even something like that or even just making kang the conqueror like a a new overarching villain and stuff but i just think story-wise i mean because we watch these movies because we love the characters as well as the action right it's like to see these characters actually grapple with the choice of of having to deal with one of their own um it's what made civil war one of the best movies in the mcu and it will it is what will make phase like at this phase four and even going into phase five if they can build wanda up as the villain like like throughout the rest of one division and doctor strange and the multiverse of madness and then lead her into like a phase five as as as this ultimate force leading into an ultimate battle at like the either the end of phase five then that's going to be amazing because we have so much connection and investment in what's happening so that's i for all these reasons i'm sorry wanda i want you to turn into i don't say villain because i just want you to turn against the avengers and and do your own thing because you deserve it after all this couldn't agree more all right i think that about wraps up our discussion about wanda as the next a big bad of the mcu what do you guys think um i i mean i i totally think that she should be the next big bad and after this conversation i'm even more convinced so i would like to thank nick very much for for being here today and thank you all for listening and we'll see you next time

Channel: CBR

Views: 92,565

Rating: 4.8876033 out of 5

Keywords: WandaVision, Villain Wanda, Big Bad Wanda, Wanda Maximoff, Scarlet Witch, Vision death, Vision alive, Elizabeth Olsen, Paul Bettany, Avengers movie, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Captain America: Civil War, Civil War 2, CBR Saga

Id: Zq9nve9dXaw

Length: 20min 14sec (1214 seconds)

Published: Sat Feb 13 2021