MATPAT Talks About Retirement | Brain Leak Ep. 54

bra leag man thanks so much for coming on today I'm super pumped no thanks for having me guys I'm I'm actually incredibly excited and a little bit nervous uh I've always I've always wanted to be able to like collabs with you guys and and with my former schedule it was almost impossible to do that and so I'm excited to just like get down on the couch and just hang out for a little bit it's it's really nice I think about that too and then I'm like what what are Matt Pat and I going to do our formats are wildly different I'm like I don't know what what we do together so I I just never reached out so that's on me oh no it's it's fine the the world's our oyster we could have done anything I mean we still can do anything but yeah but time is over now the world is over time has ended you're gone the world is ended you say that I have cooler opportunities for collabs now than I did before like you know if we had had this a month ago I would have asked you to walk in my fashion show that's coming up soon oh man Matt if you're not on YouTube regularly do you even exist Does it matter that's deep that's deep I I think you exist more actually as a human being you you might not exist as as prevalent out in in the public eye but you you I I feel like I exist more now as a human being than I did for years that's good I'm glad I mean that makes a lot of sense that's called being present yeah being holding yourself accountable yeah that's exactly it it's it's like oh hey instead of grinding it away at the computer and worrying about the countdown of you scripts or episodes that need to get recorded or uploads and watching view counts and optimization and this and that it's like hey you know I'm I'm helping the team I'm present with everyone here but then I'm going off and I'm climbing a rock wall at the rock gym or I'm like hey I'm I'm learning how to ice skate now because I have a little bit more predictable of a schedule and I can get ownership over my life again and that's that's pretty awesome I like that ice skating is the go-to is that something you wanted to do for a long time and just never did yeah you know it's one of those things that I did a little bit as a kid cuz I grew up in Ohio and so in Ohio it's it's cold and you throw on some ice skates and you go around the rink a little bit and and it was fun and I I kind of capped out at like okay now I need to figure out how to skate backwards efficiently um and I haven't picked it up in years right it's maybe like once a year when you're at like an event or something like that like uh around Christmas time and uh this year uh my son Ali he's he's five and he turned old enough to start experimenting with a lot of activities right uh he's he's old enough to have opinions and he's capable enough to like really hop into a lot of different things and so this year has been a lot of throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what sticks with him and and like what he really responds to and so we threw uh rock climbing at him and he loved rock climbing which is great cuz I love rock climbing too so it gave me a good excuse and then uh and then we're like you know what let's let's try ice skating like let's see you know it learnning balance slipping and sliding things like that and he like if it if it has the opport opportunity for him to go fast and you know endure some large scale bodily harm or like run the risk of a large bodily harm he is all about it so it's like climb a rock wall and jump off of it great awesome uh skate really fast on ice and and slide around great and so he's been really into it and so he's been taking lessons and then we've been doing free skates every weekend and so Steph and I have just been like passively learning from watching his lessons and then you know for an hour on Saturdays we kind of skate around and at this point it's kind of an informal meet and greet around here where people kind of know that I show up there on like Saturday or Sunday and we have kind of like meet and greets on the ice sometimes sweet yeah it's cool it's cool cute brain leak modern technology is great and it's wonderful and it helps us in basically every aspect of our life but it's also creepy and weird and everyone can get any of your information at any time any place they know your address your phone number your email the very time down of the second that you burst out of the wood boom they can find everything out just at the click of a button and you can get this information scrubbed from the internet but it's a tedious task you have to go to every single person to say hey please take down this information takes forever nobody has time for that but that's where Aura steps in Aura sweeps the information finds all of the data Brokers that are selling my information and automatically submits to opt out just for me just for the click of a button I don't have to do anything I just tell them hey go get rid of this and they go and get rid of this I don't know if 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see how much of your information is being sold and then get rid of that information that's being sold through Ora brain Le wait so your your kid's 5 years old that's when their brains are supposed to turn on right that now now he's awake he's sentient 25 you have to start paying attention to him now yeah now we need to know his political opinions we need to know where he sits we need to know who he's voting for oh jeez yeah he has to he has to be locked into all of that right now we just got to like funnel everything into him uh yeah you know it's on one hand it you know there's definite steps in the like development process where you're like oh wow like that was a huge leap and now we're you've unlocked all these opportunities for us to do together like um we just started being able to play Mario Kart together and it's and it's super cool to be able to like play Mario Kart with your kid and um it is fascinating to learn how much Mario Kart helps you along as a new player and how much you have to tank your performance to lose in Mario Kart yeah yeah cuz um CU for all you know because of the rubber banding AI we want Oli to have some level of success you know you know get a good good place finish and this and that and so if we're trying to play with him you know we're we're we're pretty good at Mario Kart and he's not as good at Mario Kart and so I literally have a rule where I'm not allowed to start racing until like the first lap and a half are done and so I'll you know he'll be like how do I press the button to start and it be like okay ready go and then he like blasts off and then I'll hit break and go backwards for like the first like 30 seconds of the race I scoot around collecting coins for a little bit um and then I start like racing seriously at at like a lap and a half and then that helps prevent the AI cuz the AI wants to focus on me right it's like oh you have a real bad player back here like this guy sucks sucks at Mario Kart like we we can't have this guy hanging out in 12th Place so you got like squidling kid hanging out with me in like the back 11 and we're just kind of down dancing around each other and then uh and then my goal is to get second place in every in every race uh and then if if Steph and I we try to get one two three so that way Oli gets like first every once in a while we'll we'll pop in to be like first but you know so so that way he doesn't get too big of a head but it gets him like that like yeah I'm I'm really and so now he's like I'm awesome at Mario Kart and if someone else plays with him we kind of like pull them aside beforehand like anyone on the team or like if anyone's hanging out with us we're like hey just so you know this is kind of how you have to play the game and like go don't go too hard cuz he'll say he's really good at Mario Kart but not really so there's been a lot of that lately that's that's me my my new goal is to come in second place in everything I play oh love what are you some kind of good dad or something God I'm try there's no such thing as a good dad I feel like you know you you constantly feel guilt-ridden and and awful about every decision that you've made and it's like no I'm never going to be good isn't that just what life is I don't have a child and that's how I feel I can't make my own decisions well well let me tell you having a kid just makes that much worse cuz you're like oh man this kid's a reflection of the stuff that we pouring into him and it's like no what have I done yeah see I think of having as my this going to be a crude analogy I think of having a kid as having like a dog that grows up and can vote so it has like impact in society so if I [ __ ] it up it's my fault sure yeah and then everyone blames me and then they go to therapy and they blame me and that's what I've been doing so why wouldn't they do it that's amazing no the idea of a dog voting is also great like I feel like that they should be able to they should yeah I mean it's about as informed as most of us anyway so there you go yep my brother just had his first kid uh this past year and I've been so excited to be an uncle but I also realized when he was born I was like wow I have no idea like when babies start doing certain things uh like I don't know when those check marks are like I was he just turned 6 months old and I was like so is he like walking yet or talking like I don't know when these things happen because I'm never around babies um it's it's very funny I'm around one every week yeah that's right no I mean but you're totally right like so Steph and I both are only children and so we didn't grow up with like brothers and sisters who either grew up alongside us or family members who had kids before us right there's no there's really no aunts and uncles or anything like that it's all our employees are our family and so like Ali will go down to the basement and be like hey team you know and the team are his buddies and he'll be like hey team do you mind if I eat goldfish in front of you and they're like no it's fine um so he treats him like a little family but to your point Ethan it's it's one of those things where yeah you have like really no clue unless you've actively like gone through it and I think one of the things that Steph and I have been really surprised by is how early so much of that stuff happens and how early they get a personality and how early they get um you know opinions about things and and how quickly they adopt things like you know Ali's going to kindergarten now and he comes back with like hey let's play basketball and we're like really okay and he's like and he starts dribbling the ball and you're like whoo like you're good at this and we've maybe like touched the ball one time you know a basketball one time or whatever and he's like oh you know I just learned for my friends at school and you're like oh okay cool or you know he he went to the school library and brought back like a book on the Philadelphia Eagles and we're we're like we're like that's an odd choice but and he's like oh my friends really like that team and so I want to learn about the team and we're like okay here comes a teaching Point son right you're not going to like your friend's team and you're I hate each other it's like I'm sorry hate to tell you um no but and it's very clear that he picked it just because he thought it would be cool with his friends cuz it's it's a book full of like stats and figures and this it's like you did you you the the friends thought like this team is cool and you got it and I get that right but it's it's so fascinating to watch that Evolution happen and and that growth just appear out of nowhere and you know and and where they get this stuff like for instance like Ali's big passion is Mech suits robots and like engineering and building stuff and and for he's going to be all right yeah no like Peak you know one of one of the things that we do on weekends is like draw imaginary like Mech suits and and it's like it's got saw blades for arms and spikes coming out of its shoulders and it and and it's in super Metal but he wants everything to be like covered in rainbows and and you know gold teeth and he's he's into like no it's right it's it's a very blingy mech suit it's incredible it's it's it's simultaneously deadly and beautiful um but it's one of those things where Steph and I for for as as many interests and passions and things as we have and as many things as we study all the time like we were not engineering people we're not like we like math and we like science but how things work and how they get manipulated and and how to build things and engines and stuff like that sports cars were never things that we were interested in and and he just kind of like that was his natural inclination and and he just went with it so we've been having to kind of like so what is the carburetor and what does it do or like what does a V6 engine mean and how is that different from you know and it's it's been really educational for us the ice skating is another thing where it's like it's given us a chance to and an excuse to learn a lot of new things which is really really cool that's so nice darn it I become that guy who talks about his kid all the time please let's talk about games I feel like when you have a kid your whole life revolves around your kid yeah it's like it's a lot take it from a guy whose dad didn't his life didn't revolve around his kid I appreciate people who talk about their kids a lot you have a vested interest you care you're going to be there for his life and his big moments so it's kind of cool I'm so excited for my nephew to have interests like I went to visit him and there was a Lego store in the airport and again he 6 months so he's not real yet but I'm like oh I can't wait to like be the uncle that comes to visit and comes with like a new Lego set or like I'm so excited to see what his first like big interest is I'm going to say it's going to be dinosaurs because my brother was a big dinosaur guy so not a shocker I'm banking on banking on dinosaurs you have a favorite dinosaur when you were growing up I really like Velociraptors a lot um I was I was less into dinosaurs and I was more into horses oh cool horses and dogs there's probably a connection there dinosaurs horses trace it back right bra brain brain leak I've been trying to get my ADH h d medication for a very long time and for some reason the doctor's office is just such a pain to deal with either I can't get my prescriptions on time or I can't get or I can't get an appointment in a reasonable amount of time appointments now you have to book them so far in advance it's like well I I need to go to the doctor now not 4 months from now and then I have to deal with the whole thing of like okay well do I want to stick with the doctor that I have or do I want to get a new doctor but getting a new doctor is so so difficult and it takes forever it's terrible but Zach can 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present because I was like I want a dog so bad and every present wasn't a dog so I just cried oh man right that good it's good to hear that too because uh again it's one of those things that you you don't realize what you don't know until you have the kid and and each kid is completely different but like for the first two three years of Aldi's like he hated Christmas and and what we learned later was it was the the excitement and the energy and the noise like he's very sensitive to noise right and so all the like you know jingles and and songs playing and and even like the crunch of the rapping paper and stuff like that was was overwhelming to him especially when he was younger and and we're like and so every Christmas was like you know kind of an ordeal and we're like what's wrong like oh it's Christmas and we're like oh this this sucks man um like you're you're so looking forward to like that Christmas with your kid and this and that and it's like oh this is tough um and and ex exactly to your point it's it's one of those it could be anything from like hey this was not the the present that I was looking for or like oh this you know kids get in their heads like everything has to be perfect like that's another thing where like Al's he got he's he is like the epitome of Stephan so he's like type AAA um where it's like everything has to be perfect all the time and so if if we you know do it the wrong way or if he's not prepared to show off a thing and we see it early or if it doesn't go quite the way he expected like it's a big ordeal and it's like hey you know learning how to behave and and be okay if things don't go go right or kind of like go with the flow and stuff like that's that's a big part of it but it's all stuff that you have to learn and it's it's a learning and again it's a learning process for them and it's a learning process for you yeah I think I was kind of like that as a kid because I I have uh two brothers and two sisters so I grew up in a pretty big family and then it was a lot of like nobody really taught me to do anything so I was kind of like looking at everybody and learning how to do everything myself and then it was that reveal moment being like look I can do this thing I learned how to switch by watching everybody else I learned how to run and jump and all these kinds of things but if they saw it too early I'm like no I'm in my prep phase I'm like Batman fighting Superman I'm prepping I'm not ready yet look away right still got to work on your Kryptonite gas or if somebody like threw big emotions at me or something like like the Christmas thing if something big happened all at once I would kind of like break down and cry and kind of like revert into myself and I was like I don't know how to deal with anything yeah no the the birthday song is actually Ali's least favorite song like uh we like on his birthday we actually ask him like Hey do you want us we've Le again over multiple years of learning it's like hey when when this song is sung you get upset and so cuz all the attention's on him he feels like there's a lot of pressure around the cake and this and that it's like hey do you want people gather around you and for you to blow out your candles in front of everyone and usually it's no and then it's like hey do you want us to sing the you know do you want Mommy and Daddy to sing you the birthday song and it's like no uh last year we sang him a snippet of the Pokemon theme song cuz that was that was his that was his birthday we to make requests yeah yeah I mean it's birthday you know positive parenting year I get and I could have picked any song can you guys sing My Way by Frank sinatro while I blow out the candles you know what let's do it next birthday I I'm there yeah thank you that's all I want birthday song sucks everyone's off key no one knows the tempo other people are over there washing their hands cuz they heard you're supposed to like wash your hands and sing Happy Birthday twice and they don't know what's going on cuz that's the length of the time you're supposed to wash your hands so they're over washing their hands people are singing happy birthday and they're like what's going on I'm crying oh man happy birthday to to us all that's amazing yeah I mean you you say the word and I will be there in a heartbeat and I will sing my way I will sing Never Going To Give You Up I will sing Numa Numa like whatever whatever you want man it's a good song for my birthday you're the birthday boy yeah you do what you want you only to get one day a year mhm you got to make it yours did you guys have themed birthdays when you were growing up if the theme was sadness wow this is dark no my birthdays my birthdays were great but I didn't have I never had themes no you weren't like oh I want a a Pokemon theme or whatever like I know one of mine was like I I had a bowling theme one year because again I grew grew up in the Midwest and and bowling is a sport in the midwest so if if you're getting less than eight pins on any given frame you're like the black sheep of the family you're disowned uh bowling and Jenga um there was one year that we did like a science theme and then uh I think the strangest but also most memorable to me was we did this one year where I invited a small group of my friends to this like Mystery Dinner Theater in Cleveland Cleveland Ohio and and like it was kind of like a dinner it was like a a dinner theater show but it was a mystery and and you were a part of it uh kind of like among us or something and and you're going around and role playing and then you by the end you have to figure out who done it it was awesome it was so cool that rules your birthday parties were way cooler than my birthday parties sorry the only theme I remember is one year I invited all my friends my aunt was like I want I think it was my 10th birthday and she was like I want to throw you like a really great birthday party what do you want to do and I was like I want to go go-karting and there was a go-kart place uh in the next town over and so she was like all right I'm going to book you an hour at the go-kart part place you can bring all your friends so I invited all my friends um and the day came and only one person showed up and to this day uh he's like still like my closest friend he was the only one that showed up and at first I was sad but then I was like oh it's just going to be me and him on the track alone for an hour and it was awesome yeah inviting a lot of people to your birthday party sucks cuz it's it's just a bunch of people you don't want to be around all you want to do is get toys and peace out and that's it well right it's that's all I wanted to do it's a give and take right it's like the more people you invite the more presents you get but also the more people you invite the more you have to hang out with them so yeah then it's not about me it's not my birthday anymore it's everybody it's like a wedding it's like you throw a massive wedding for all your family and relatives and everything and then it's like who's this for anymore is it for them to all hang around and eat oh right like I think that's one of the things that you realize as you get older is like the more and more like social events and parties and things that you go to it's like no they're not for you to have fun they're for everyone else to have fun or celebrate or whatever you call out wedding oh my gosh wedding like Stephan our planning our wedding got to be so infuriating at a certain point uh that Steph and I almost just we're like we're calling off we're just going to alope you know like forget this like we're just going to do it cuz cuz exactly to your point like we go in with this mentality of like hey this is our big day this is celebration of our relationship like we want this to be purely us and then all of a sudden you have parents who are coming in and being like well make sure there's enough space in the invite list for exor friend and we're like who's that guy like we've never met that guy you know oh but he's he's big at my company or like oh this person who's worked at my you know it's like we have no connection to those people why would we invite people that we've never met to our events and eventually we found a compromise and and we did make it like purely ourselves and it turned out great but it was one of those things that there was definitely that moment we like we're not planning your party we're planning a party for us we're not this isn't like some some company networking event for you guys yeah my brother and my sister-in-law did it in such a good way where they eloped and then they were like we have family all over the place if we do a wedding one it's going to be a kajillion dollars but two like so much family would have to come from everywhere so they were like we're going to lope our family your job is do we will visit you guys the next time we visit you you throw us a party for like our marriage so you can invite whoever and so like they went back home to Maine where I grew up and my mom like through a big party uh for them and they didn't have to worry about anything and it was also like it was a bunch of family but also like you were just saying a bunch of like random people that they like kind of knew I was like oh that's the way to do it get somebody else to just throw a party for you every time you go and visit them for your wedding for the next year or whatever um that's a that's a smart way of doing it I like that and also it puts the pressure off for you it means you get to have multiple parties like that's that's a cool one I think in general right like with with the internet you know and and with YouTube and and and Instagram and and just like blog like even back in the days of blog post and stuff right like you're seeing the breakdown of a lot of those sorts of Institutions or those sorts of traditions that like kind of sucked and everyone was kind of aware that they sucked but you kind of had to do them because they were expected of you and and bit by bit people are able to be a little bit more open and a little bit more honest about like hey that was kind of disappointing like like this this this whole thing kind of sucks like there's probably a better way to do it and historically speaking you know you wouldn't be able to do that cuz if you did you would offend everyone but as like as a society as we kind of have these conversations and and reassess what's good what's bad what what what you want to keep what don't you it's it's starting to give you that permission of like hey maybe it's maybe we should like do uh you know throw me a party or like maybe we should rethink how weddings are structured and things like that it's cool it's one of the benefits of the internet L I don't know about you guys but I am a hot hot sleeper I wake up sometimes drenched in sweat and it's not comfortable at all I don't know what's happening in my dreams 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an intro because you absolutely don't an introduction I love how we just we just went in talking this is great oh wait have we have we been on the podcast this entire time damn it I guess yeah I guess so everyone knows now oh man oh that was all my private conversation okay yeah so hi I'm Matt Pat I retired recently um but I but I'm still I'm still doing way famous retiree and he's trying this is an intervention for me and Ethan to figure out why we're still here and why we're doing it yeah I'm just because there's because there's been a lot of talk about other people and like even call me Kevin an Irish YouTuber friend of mine he made a video where he's stepping back and everything and I've been thinking about it a lot and I'm wondering why everybody at the same time is sort of feeling the same thing and I wonder if it even is the same thing cuz when I talked about it I was like this is my experience and I don't want to say like oh gaming is not what it used to be or the algorithms tougher than it's ever been or things are too idea driven more so than just naturalistic I'm like I don't know if that's just me or if it's the whole platform as a whole and you've you've been doing stuff that's not just uploading you've done like analytic work with other people and helped out behind the scenes so I'm curious what your take on it all is yeah 100% I I mean it's it's all those things and more right like I I like you are right you are right you are right and then plus um I mean so me personally is a a separate issue but if we're just talking about YouTube as a platform right um it the algorithm is harder now than it's ever been it is harder now to be especially a mid-tier Creator than it's ever been but a Creator across the board right because uh shorts is taking up more uh screen real estate and so it's harder to be consistent with your uploads um in term like get consistent performance in your uploads like it's much more trends-based than it was before um so there's a much stronger shift in the rise and fall of channels are kind of like this was a good performer this was a bad performer so if you're not in the moment performance is going to be harder um it's a lot less uh and as a result of all of that it's a lot less uh Creator driven and channel driven um it really YouTube has been scared of Tik Tok for a while uh Tik Tok you know came in did a much did much more damage to to like the the demographics that were watching YouTube than they expected and now it's been a lot of like let's let's clamor back and try to claw back some of that audience right and as a result there's been a lot of cribs notes on the Tik Tok algorithm and applying it to YouTube um so it's much the the memory on YouTube is a lot shorter um in terms of hey you search for a thing or you watch this video let's give you more of that stuff um they're also trying to encourage you to watch more very small channels like micro channels uh with you know 10 100 100 views here and there um so right now YouTube as a system and the recommendation algorithm is servant to like five separate Masters and and that's really hard to juggle makes it really hard to create consistent programming around all of that that's issue one issue two is exactly what you said which is you know hey it is much more idea driven than organic right long G it's it's very much the big spectacle piece what is the you know what's what's the hook what's the thesis how's the thumbnail playing to like it is much more corporatized and from the get-go you have to think through all steps in that process and does your thumbnail match the opening seconds of your video you know is the is immediately prevalent there and then how's that trickle down um you are seeing a little bit of a reassessment of that as and like the pendulum is swinging back a little bit um I think Ryan Tran is a really good channel to watch where he takes that idea driven content but brings the production level back down to kind of like an an authentic attainable way where it feels much more of a conversation but it is still very like joke joke joke bit bit bit funny funny like you're it has to be much more jam-packed in order to retain that retention time draw people through it get satisfaction all that stuff um so it's all so there's a lot of platform stuff but there's also I mean I just you know I had a kid and he's turning five he's turning six you know and and that and that changes your priorities in a lot of ways you know how how long have you been doing it for at this point it's yeah I've been doing it 11 years right ex exactly right so this is the time where doing something for 10 years that's a long that is a long time right and you know especially when you look at the job market nowadays A lot of people in unless you're working at your job and you're a lifer right in general you you tend to see people pivoting their jobs every two to three years um roughly as they kind of move between jobs or kind of like meanwhile everyone watching this podcast is like was I supposed to be doing that [ __ ] yeah no it's it's it what you've seen is is with the gig economy with the shifting of the economic climate this and that you see people kind of jumping between jobs on on a faster basis than you used to before but on YouTube yeah you've been doing it for 10 11 years I've been doing it for 13 years and it's one of those things that we are finally in a generation where the platform is old enough and it's been established enough for long enough that people have been doing it for a long they've been grinding away weekly videos multiple times a week you know even if you're doing a monthly video like it's it's a lot of work to do and a lot of balls to juggle and it's it it it encompasses a lot it it hangs in your head all the time and on on a plus side a lot of those people have the ability to retire you know they have the financial means to retire or they've set aside other businesses they've launched other things they you know or it's just time to do something else and take that experience and pivot somewhere else and so not only is it like wow I'm tired but it's also like why am I still doing this if I don't have to do this like do I still have more that I'm looking to get out of this or am I just on this treadmill because momentum is a heck of a thing and and inertia is tough to break and I think that's that's a big part of it too um it's you know there's there's that idea of like I've worked this long to build up this thing and to walk away from it to close it down whatever that's I I think there a lot of people maybe associate it with being like a failure in some way or like oh what what then what did I do it for and it's like well it's everything that you've done up to this point like that that is the culmination of it and that's great but you know at a certain point you kind of have to decide what the end of your story looks like and and where you want it to end and kind of what's next and it's hard to kind of do that assessment but you know we were in a fortunate position where we're in a we in a place where I can step away and the channel can continue in whatever capacity it does but things like that but yeah no so there's all sorts of factors all coming together all at the same time that's making all of these conversations happen for sure going off of what you were just talking about um in your in your video you talked about how you've been doing YouTube for a third of your life um and Sean that was pretty much the same for you yeah exactly a third I've been I'm 27 I started YouTube when I was 15 uh I've always thought of YouTube as less of a job and more of like a a lifestyle in a sense when you stopped did you because I'm also having the thoughts because it's been forever of like oh when when am I going to stop has it been a weird transition from you coming off of the of off of the channel and going into retirement as far as identity goes because I was talking to my therapist about that and I was like I don't when I stop YouTube I don't know if I'll like Know Who I Am anymore cuz this is so much of me and I wonder what your experience is with that no that that makes a lot of sense and I and I've actually heard that from a lot of people who've talked to me in the aftermath of of both the initial announcement video as well as kind of like the the final episodes that I did um I mean that whole the whole 10we countdown to me leaving was and and even before that it's it's been basically a year-long grieving process you know because we've called the business and and the YouTube channels and this and that like like my first kid technically second because we got we got skip my cat around the same time so like but those are those were like the first children right and and they take that much time and that much care and that much attention and in a lot of ways this transition for us has been like sending them away to college where it's like hey you're grown up you got to have the life of your own and you're going to live on and you're going to make mistakes and things are going to be good and things are going to be bad and we're going to watch you from afar and celebrate your victories and and be bummed out by the losses or whatever but it's like hey good for you like it's it's cool to have created something that can live on it's it's Parenthood again only in a business standpoint um wait so if you're able to get other people to take it over and that means you're sending them off to college does that I mean when we quit we just kill our kid is the kid just dead man where does the kid go if there's no one to take it over Jack Jack spicy too that's it oh no existential no no I I I think for you it's I think for you guys it's different right it's It's A Memoir of your work and it's a memoir of your life right I think like like for me it's a it's a kid that is and it's a business right like I think I think you and I like we run different YouTube channels we have a format driven YouTube channel that has personality elements to it you run a personality Channel and so this is in the truest sense of YouTube what YouTube was born in a a journal a diary a personal assessment and projection of who you are in this moment and your growth and evolution as a Creator and that's beautiful and Game Theory is that too for me but also there's a format under underlying it that allows it to kind of like carry on in a business a pretty substantial business at this point underneath it that like continues forward in a business that's like hey if I can be less involved in that that would be fantastic cuz I do not want to be a business person um but you know it's just exhausting all the time um so so you're not killing any kids don't worry I think you're all good if anything you're just writing your closing chapters but but again like to to that grieving process it's literally been it was it was a year and especially like six months of unwinding myself from so many processes that I've been a part of you know it's like oh that is the last time that I'm standing in front of that green screen doing a short or like oh that is the last time that I'm sitting down polishing a script or that is the last time I'm standing in the recording booth and saying you know buddy that's just a theory and and some were better than others like saying goodbye to shorts I'm like woohoo that was fun uh saying goodby saying goodbye to you know the catchphrase and the recording booth that was emotional and I and I you know I I I I cry a lot I'm very I'm very emotional so and so like there was there was a lot of Tears shed throughout that process and a lot of like you know coping with it and and sitting there and and kind of processing your evolving relationship with that space with those spaces with those people things like that um so there is it's it it is and it's a step by-step process and it was really a step-by-step process and the the 10we countdown was me getting to celebrate and reflect and have those moments of like hey look at how far I've been able to come and look at look at that Journey that we've collectively been on together as a community so that way I felt good about those notes and got closure on a lot of the things that that were kind of lingering and and stuff like that so it was good for me it was good for the audience um and and you do kind of like come back down you know and it's it's kind of like that gradual stepping down process back into like normal human being um to the identity issue it it's interesting cuz because it never leaves you you know it's it's always there right like I I brought up at the very beginning of this thing where it's like I still get stopped on the ice at the ice ring I I guess stopped all the time like it's it's pretty constant and it's one of those things where like game you know Game Theory doesn't leave in the in the conversations that you have like around it and and like oh you were still my childhood and this and that and you the memories still exist and they've still influenced you so it it doesn't leave it's just that your relationship changes with it and you move forward and and you grow on um but at the same time too like I'm the type of person who has always had a fairly decent coarse sense of of self right like I've always kind of I'm I'm a nerd I'm pretty proud of being a nerd um I am definitely lame don't have many friends um hey made made birthday party invites very easy um man I got a high qual quality over quantity when it came to the presents um you know and I I was the kid who was in college like dancing at the bus stop with like the bright green jacket and like the the purple tie with like white polka dots and and didn't care what people thought of me right and so this has been been a a part of me and a part of my journey and a creative thing that I've done but that doesn't change the fact that I'm still creative that I'm still you know a nerd that I'm still intellectually curious and what it does is it affords me the chance now to continue growing and and continue to change and continue to learn and and who knows at some point that might come back in the form of something else like I still have this passion for teaching and exposing people to like the cool bits and pieces of the world and and YouTube's a great platform for doing that you know and I just need to you know figure out like does it Mak like do I want to hop back into that sort of thing or is are there other ways to do that or you know am I am I going to relax and be a big bum and catch up on like the years worth of games that I've never got to play like we'll we'll see but I don't know I haven't seen myself bored in a long time and I still I'm not there yet but I'm excited to see what what I become when I'm I'm bored for a little bit and what ideas gener when I'm not just in the weeds of it every single day yeah I think that's where I'm sort of at right now cuz I said to people that I have like two years Max left than me doing it the way I'm doing it because I for me it's like when you start doing it it's like oh this thing is successful it's super cool it's the best thing I've ever done in my life I'm going to clutch my Pearl so close and run with it as hard as I can and do and work so hard with it and there's like there was almost like an art form to making the videos back then and the way they were and I feel like that sort of like Artistry in it is sort of gone for lack of a better word like you were saying a lot of YouTube Feels sort of homogeneous now it feels like everything is sort of being boiled down to the same sorts of templates and you kind of see the same stuff everywhere and it's interesting that you said about mid-tier creators because I didn't think about that I kept seeing like smaller creators and I'm like well it's still good that people are still able to make make a living out of it but it's like you're here or you're here there's that was kind of it yeah and for me I'm I'm also like that I want to I want to like get back into something that like challenges and grows me and helps me learn and I feel like the way I'm doing YouTube videos it's like it's so easy to sit down and record a let's play that I'm like I'm not challenged by that and I could change it but it's like I kind of want to do something else I want to like see if I can write stuff I want to see if I can make narrative driven content I want to see if I can like create characters that go further yeah all these different types of things like even draw I've been like painting miniatures I'm like that's a fun process to learn I've never been artistic in my life beyond like cre content in a way so I'm like like you said it's good to like you need to let your brain settle let the silt sort of go down and then it's like okay what ideas float to the surface again cuz otherwise you can't otherwise it's just it's Rapids there's no settling to the water at all mhm by the way you're new here I like analogies uh so that's my thing you're going to learn that everything boils down to water analogies I love it no and I think they're I think it's a great analogy and I think you're absolutely right you know you're when you're doing it and you're doing it every single week and and you feel the pressure of the algorithm and this and that like you are in the Rapids and stuff is churning all the time and you're you're rushing to get the next video done and you're juggling all the production elements and there's all the long-term stuff and the short-term stuff like it it's it's constant you're getting inundated all the time and you're in your little raft paddling and you're getting splashed on all sides and you're like holding on for dear life right and and the analogy of yeah the water settling and having that moment of like peace and quiet and then like letting letting kind of the noise fall away and being like what what do I like like who am I like like what do I enjoy at this point or or where do I want to pursue next what do I want to learn about is is exactly right and and to your point you know you could play the game like I I I think YouTube is still like the evolution of what creative content is the game has shifted it's tighter it requires a very specific style of editing and processing and and very specific format um which is which is tough and it's the question is like hey do you want to play that game or do you not like for we've been consultants for 10 years you know and and like you called out earlier like I've been in the analytics since the very beginning because Game Theory took a long time to produce and I like numbers and so I would always analyze the data and run all these tests and stuff right and as a result we've consulted 200 250 different channels over the years we've worked with a ton of big Brands and and helped them with influencer strategy we we've consed people on their programming like we've done literally everything and we've touched a lot more things than I think people really realize um but it's one of those things where one of the things that we always say as consultants is like Hey we're going to equip you with the knowledge that you need to have the the maximum amount of success as we understand it right like here's how the editing needs to look here's how the format needs to be here's how your your thumbnail should flow here's how other people in the vertical are doing it right here here's the laundry list of everything and we just want to give you that knowledge so you can choose what is right for you and your brand and your content right like what is right for you and you're creative because you could follow all of them but is that true to your content is that like what you want to do like at a certain point like like for me like for instance I recognize very clearly that game theory you it's never going to be like I had to Grapple early on where I'm like I will never be the number one channel on YouTube number one most subscribed because there's there's a upper limit to the number of people who want to nerd out about video games and there's especially an upper limit of people who want to do that about a variety of video games you know not just like focus on one piece of content all the time um the fact that it's educational this the the viewing style this and that like there are certain concessions that you have to make I also recognize that our episodes are longer and more narrative and that there are ways that we could streamline them and that there are parts of that process that we could cut to make them more successful but I'm like but then you're losing the creativity that or and and kind of like the like you said the art Artistry of it or kind of like what my vision of that thing would be and so you know we kind of leave it to the side like I can tell you analytically speaking a cold open of a video that is skit based is less effective than if we do just like a here's the thesis of the video and we're going to prove it and blah blah and that is the more optimized solution but is it the right solution for you and the product that you want to get out and and it's it's a give and take and it's you as a Creator as a creative deciding what is right for you and and kind of where do you draw your line is it all about performance and numbers and you just want it to do as well as possible great then there's a playbook for that but do you want it to have a certain quality or a certain feel or Vibe or emotion or or things like that then you're going to sacrifice some of the viewership you're going to sacrifice some of the performance but you might be happier with the end result and and kind of the quality that you've put out there yeah I it's just kind of a shame that that's what the bulk of YouTube kind of is like if you go to YouTube and you're watching it as a casual viewer like a lot of people judge the system based on the numbers and like this Creator is the biggest in the world and we're following him because that's a cool thing to do it was the same with like when Felix was coming becoming the biggest in the world and then everyone loved that and then as soon as he was everyone was like that's it we're done like time time to bounce off of that and and do something else so yeah it is a shame that the numbers part of it is so prevalent because I think cuz I like we've Jesus your headphones are attacking you right now are you okay hold on cuz we've been doing it for so long that we've like seen stuff come and go and go in and out but for I think a lot about people who like when I started I was like man this is cool somebody's doing this they're getting paid to do it I didn't know that was a thing that's completely gone now you don't like everyone knows you get paid to do YouTube now um but I worry about the people who are sitting in the rooms who are like I want to do it and the hurdle seems so it's like a sefian task now to actually make a YouTube channel and roll that ball up the hill constantly just to have it Crush you constantly so it's kind of sad that some of that homegrown sort of organic feel to it is gone I think maybe it'll swing back maybe that pendulum's coming back and we're it's because it was kind of over produced in the beginning when I was starting out there was a lot of that kind of content and then I think my wave of content was a lot more like just sit back listen talk be yourself it's all personality driven and now that's kind of going out and its ideas its production its editing so I want I'm just curious if it'll if we're coming back down out of that slope at all ever yeah I mean yeah it is a it's a pendulum swinging and there's a couple factors that all play into this right so on one side yeah you definitely have the audience and the audience I think you are seeing kind of that that push back where there is like I I called out Ryan Tran before with his kind of like more rudimentary production style um and there's there's a couple Fitness channels that have been doing really well lately where it's like hey I'm just vlogging my life for an hour and you're just kind of hanging out with me in the grocery store and we're walking and talking and and and that that sort of like long form unedited relatable content feels good for a lot of people and you're seeing a a kind of a push back into that kind of organic feel of things so there there will always be kind of like a the swing back and forth for sure um that being said and and and and the other side of that too is is shorts right I think part of the reason why YouTube has really pushed shorts is that instead of their the system being dominated by a couple of large creators now anyone can have Su you know it Tik Tok is the same thing right where every video that you upload is is a lottery ticket and it's like this could get 10 views or this could get 10 million views right and it could come from anywhere and by the nature of of Tik Tok the the the production value expectation is much lower in fact it works better if it's less produced on Tik Tok whereas on YouTube YouTube shorts requires higher production value fun fact we've run the numbers um yeah yeah let me tell you about all the secret like ad testing we've done but no like that sort of stuff works like YouTube is a much more polished platform with production value Tik Tok if you have too much production value it it people immediately click off and swipe away um but it's it as a result it's it's opened the door for more voices and more different creators of all different tiers so there is a benefit to that but by putting you into a feed you know a feed of content right you no longer connect with the Creator because the Creator is no longer the Focus right if you think about YouTube I go to the channel page and I'm watching Jack Jack seai or I'm watching crank gameplays you know like I know you I know your brand maybe you have a catchphrase maybe you have a a logo or or an intro or something like that right and so I know I'm I'm and to find your again I'm I'm searching for crank gameplays again but it's one of those things where on Tik Tok or shorts you know the the actual like Creator branding is like a small thing in the corner and you can't see it and you're not going to click on it you're loyal to the the scroll you're loyal to the platform like people when people talk about Tik Tok they're like I love Tik Tok it's not like oh I I love that Creator or oh there's this one person that I really connect with and and so you lose a lot of that which I think is is this shame of it um so that's so that's part one and then part two is you know to that idea of um can we get it back just like with the consulting stuff and and as a Creator and as a creative you kind of choose where you set your line to the trick of where we are today is that mobile games in the food world in the entertainment world and and especially here in digital video everything is designed with Neuroscience principles behind it right like they know hey you getting a good video or you getting a reward in a mobile game or whatever that's a Shad of dopamine in your brain and we have calculated to like the minute how long it is before your brain's ready to give you another shot of dopamine and so we're going to like yeah a couple dud video dud video deud video oh another dopamine shot and and so everything right now in in the world it's it's kind of crazy but like everything is designed with a lot of these like brain chemistry principles underneath them and they're designed to add you and to hook you and to get you you know on the platform for as long as possible scrolling or swiping or whatever and watching and the trick is you are in a system where are there better ways to do it and are there is there more wholesome content is there stuff that is more substantial whatever yeah absolutely but the the algori our brains aren't wired to to do that like to react that way and for the platforms to you know know that and actively move away from it they are choosing something that hurts their bottom line you know like oh well we're only going to provide you educational content or we're only going to provide you stuff that is you know more egalitarian or or shows off X you know that's more artistic or whatever the platform will automatically be under serving itself because it's not optimized for because and there's always going to be another platform that's going to pop in you know like if it's it's a race to the bottom and so you're in this kind of Catch 22 now where the Pandora's Box has been opened and we know that you know how to design these things so that way people are in it and they're locked in and they're going to be locked in for hours on end and it's like well if I'm not going to do it someone else is and they're going to profit off of it so you need to figure like what is the solution there It's Tricky that's that's the big question is there a solution or has that box been you know unpacked that's it I'm taking the kid out to the back I'm shooting them it's over guys the kid is dead there's no College there's no money left there's no education good enough it's weird hearing you talk about you said this a while ago but I was thinking about it this S I talk so long I apologize it's You Are The Guest that's why you're here please shut me up at some point I'm so sick of hearing myself I had to quit YouTube cuz I'm sick of hearing myself talk yeah that's the real reason why yeah go here's all this talk about platform changes and having a kid and this and I'm just sick of myself Sean I'm so sick of myself so sick of it no but hearing you talk about something that I haven't really thought of before was like mid tier YouTubers uh because I would consider myself a mid-tier YouTuber where um you know which I think is kind of sad if a two million subscriber YouTube channel is considered mid-tier yeah well that's what I was about to say is like I know that 2 million is a large number but in the in the grand scheme of YouTube now where you know the top channel is what like 200 plus million or whatever Mr Beast has I don't know um it is weird to beat a Channel of two million subs and be like okay that's like mid- tier but the swing is so large I feel like four channels my size where one video will do a million views and then the next video will do 100K or even less and so it's there's such a big swing and it feels and maybe this is me doing things wrong but it feels sort of unpredictable at this level sometimes uh and I feel like in the past it was it was a lot easier to predict okay I know this video is going to do really well and now I'm like I actually don't know because now it's like oh I know this video is going to do sweet I thought it was really funny and blah blah blah blah blah and then I post it and it's like oh okay I guess the the platform didn't like it oh well I I think that's the sad part of algorithmic content is that you don't know what went wrong so you just have to put the blame on yourself and the onus is on you and you could have done right and it still couldn't have worked yeah no you could have hit a template perfectly and it could have still been a dud you never know yeah 100 no 100% And I think you know that's one of the reasons why you know talking about YouTube optimization and one of those things is is has been such an important part of of me and my role in this world and this and that so that way people are empowered to make better creative content or to understand that it's it's not just them right like that there are so many factors at play that are not in your control when you do this sort of thing and and I hate using the phrase mid-tier Creator cuz it like I I I did a video all back in the day where we had like 10 million subscribers and we were called a mid mid tier Creator like that was yeah you know I get sent the package for mid- tier creators and it's like thanks guys appreciate that sorry guys it's my fault right I know you're you're you're raising the curve man come on not anymore I'm not [ __ ] it up right um but but it is it's it's one of those things where like when I say mid-tier creator for the for the sake of clarity it's it's people who have uh have been successful enough on the platform where they're able to do it full-time and you know have have dedicated their life to content creation but you know don't have massive teams around them like they might have one two maybe three employees maybe an editor maybe a designer thumbnail artist whatever like a couple people hanging out around them to help them but it's not to the scale of you know like like like a theorist or you know someone who's much more established where there's a large team around them and they're able to churn out content on a fairly regular basis and the reason I say it's so hard is exactly what you called out which is it is unpredictable and it is hard to read the algorithm and as screen real estate on YouTube is more competitive than ever and is is trying to serve you small creators and a ton of shorts and the people that you they know you like but then also something that's trendy with something that you just recently watched It's instead of having a lot of slots available for your video to be shown up there if it doesn't perform quickly and efficiently and hooks people immediately you're not going to get shared as widely and you're going to see those numbers that are like you know uh 10K 20K you know like the the lower performance relative to what you would expect right and and that sucks when you are in a position where other people's livelihoods are resting on that paycheck or when you are you know hey we're all in this together and it's hard for me to pay you right now because the the the AdSense is unpredictable uh I you know it used to be like hey I could expect a steady stream of about this amount and we can you get this and you get this and we can design it whatever and and it's great but now when it's like woo we're up here and now we're down here and now we're up here it that's why I say it's so hard for people to cross through that mid-tier channel and get to the other side of it because it is so unpredictable to be to build a business on this platform and it's it's more unstable now than I think than it's ever been yeah do you do you think it's still possible cuz I remember this kept getting thrown around when my channel was growing was like oh this is the last generation of people who are really going to explode on YouTube and there's been a few channels that had like meteoric growth so quickly and I I've been hearing that for so long that like like Mr Beast is the last Creator that's ever going to explode like that and then someone like Ryan Tran comes along and does it do you think it's still possible for for people to do that or is it just not I guess even is it even noteworthy anymore if people do do that because so many people have accomplished it at this point well yeah I I think I think it's it's a couple things I I think first off Mr Beast is probably the last one who will matter um you know for for lack of a better for lack of a better term um and there's again couple things that play I'm sorry I'm like I wish I had like an efficient answer for everything but it's always like there's three things here's the no that's what the podcast is for right long form content is great because we can talk about that stuff you're out of the algorithm man it's true it's and it's great you're free I'm I'm I'm going ice skating it's going to be wonderful I'm I'm skating now this to be edited to a certain amount I'm ice skating as we speak on this podcast um no uh it's it's it's a couple different things right so first off uh YouTube is more siloed than it's ever been and and by that I mean I yeah I don't get what that means oh yeah so when I say siloed it means like you are in your bubble and it is hard to break out of your bubble uh last year we were hired on by Google to uh consult them uh at a couple sessions across the country and it was all about like building up our business as a Creator and and uh you know how did we use Google products to grow and this and that you know and so we we consulted a lot of really cool rooms and had a lot of really cool conversations but one of the things that I kept using in a lot of those conversations just to kind of like get the room's attention was I'm like hey this was like mid last year like early summer or something like that and I'm I'm like hey how many of you have have heard of skibbidy toilet and no and no one in the room raised their hand no one and I'm like no one no one's seen a video no one's heard of this nothing right and no one right crickets and this is your undertale pope moment again yeah crickets right and and it's one of those things where I'm like okay well just so you know here's the graph of of of skibby toy and I show him and it's like last month or like two months ago it you know 25 million subscribers overnight and two billion views and I'm like right now skib toilet is the most successful thing on on your platform or on this platform and no one has heard of it like eventually like it took till the end of the summer or like a couple months later for people to like start having a cultural conversation around it but I'm like this thing is everywhere and it is crushing and none of you have seen it in and and I'm like you know look at and and again we we keep tossing out Ryan but I'm like Ryan Tran I watch a lot of his videos and I think he's great and I think he's really talented and I am very rarely served up his content on on my feed and and that's what I mean by siloed it means like you are in your bubble and you're in your kind of Silo and dis be discovering new stuff is really hard and so you can like like if I asked you like how many subscribers does Mark Rober have you know right now no idea it would be for 50 million 50 mil okay good one yeah that's I mean you're getting you're about right so he gained like 10 million subscribers 15 million subscribers over the last couple months and and it's one of those things where people don't know those stories anymore and and it used to be when there was you know a cultural fabric across here like everyone kind of knew what other people were doing there were kind of those cross genre Trends and and you were able to kind of like create those those content wheel fly wheels and things like that that doesn't exist anymore just because of how the platform operates and how again goes back to like the short-term memory it goes to your watch habits it goes to the evolution of the platform but yeah it's become hard and harder to kind of break through and have those voices cross over and and do that sort of thing um exactly what you said before a lot of other people have done it at this point and so having someone kind of like rise up it would take a lot to to to kind of like have that sort of like cultural voice and and to be able to like you know once someone hits 200 million subscribers it's like the numbers are are meaningless and also subscribership at this point is an Antiquated metric like we all kind of recognize at this point yeah I keep telling people that I'm like it doesn't matter yeah it doesn't matter the the system is outsmarted subscribership it's there because it's a fun incentive and it's a fun metric and it's cool to get a golden play button and and that's something to shoot for and and that's very easy and quantifiable when in actuality the the true metric of success is average views per video haha but no one like who avd guys AV uh what is average views per video yeah it's it's avv like yeah I feel like watch time and stuff like that has been the king forever just didn't know no and and and it's not as sexy of a metric it's not like front and center and you don't get a golden play button when you hit a certain number of it or whatever and so like the reality is the system's smarter than that if if you're going to watch something it has a pretty good idea if you're going to watch it or you know it it's if it's something that wants to promote it's going to promote it whatever like and so subscribership like there was Fanfare when Mr Beast cross that number but at this point people are like oh okay cool yeah like fine um yeah and and so I think you'll still have people who are able to guide Trends and able to kind of like find success but again as it it does feel like we are in a and there'll always be a couple people who are setting the trends and and maybe not at that scale and and maybe not at that size because again oh sorry I should probably roll back because this is the other side of it which I meant to bring up which is um YouTube I suspect doesn't want a a another ad apocalypse right and so I think one of the things that they've recognized is that if your platform is dominated by a couple of large creators and and granted Mr Beast is is that right now but I think with this hey let's make sure it's the thing and hey let's let's spread out the views across a wider swath of people right communism yeah yeah exactly platform is great but bit by platform for the people it it Dr risks the platform right like if all you can't have an apocalypse if there isn't a PewDiePie Oran Paul and and you know Mr Beast is that right now but I think YouTube has started to realize and the success of Tik Tok and things like that is like hey we can still be Creator first but not like these creators first and I think you're you're seeing kind of a slow potentially a slow correction to that where it's like hey you know if if a Channel with a million subscribers gets cancelled or does something terrible or whatever no one's going to bat an ey because no one's heard of that person or it hasn't it doesn't have that cultural permeation over everything and so it protects us as a platform it still allows you know us to be creators first or whatever while drisking everything so there's a lot lot you're fine you can say what you want no one will care no one will care cuz I'm if you get cancelled it's not real just come back stronger than ever it's so weird being in the year of Our Lord 2024 and being someone who grew up with the internet and being like virality doesn't really exist anymore like Mr Beast videos I don't watch them they never pop up on my feed I don't really see many clips of them and his videos get what like 200 million per video or whatever and I feel like the and correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like the term of like this video going viral isn't really a thing anymore because there are so many people watching so much stuff all the time well I for me I think Tik Tok has just ruined people's ability to discern what numbers mean yeah like I I was hanging out with some Game Dev people over the week and they were talking about something got viewed like 8 million times and then they like turned to me and they were like I don't know how big that is like it's probably not that big at all and I'm like 8 million views is still a a ju based on what platform you're getting it on obviously it matters more but I'm like that's still a [ __ ] ton of views to get on anything but it's just people see Tik toks now like 30 40 like unless you're getting 30 million views on a Tik Tok now people are like that's not viral no one cares yeah no it's it's true and and I think you call out a really good point there too which is like hey it depends on the platform it depends on how that view is counted it depends on where it what like there's so many you know dependson or like caveats or like little addendums there that that it it changes everything too right where a view doesn't equal a view but like this view counted cuz it was autoplay like there there's so much uh like deep I guess not deep knowledge but there's so much kind of just general confusion in the space about like what numbers mean and are they real like hey you know that trailer has 25 million you know they have see the Discord [ __ ] up that happened with their views no what happened no they broke the record for most views ever because they were announcing their loot boxes on Discord but somehow they accidentally like an engineering code thing accidentally had an autoplay for everybody who ever used Discord that day yeah so it got it got a billion views in less than 24 hours man so they were sitting at like 1.4 billion views on their video and and people on the team were like screenshotting each other being like what happened why are people so excited about Discord loot boxes and then it was like oh [ __ ] what did I do that's so fun so they like viewbotted themselves by accident sorry yeah but but that's exactly it right like I mean you you asked the question of of are can I even trust these views you know like there's so many ways that you can buy views you know and there there's like like kick as a platform right like who knows yeah where's the money coming from there's there's so much like sketchiness in in the in the ecosystem and not not just YouTube but like across the board right you know like do you think that a lot of people are following like top ticktockers a lot of cases because they choose to or is it because it's autop populated because hey it's a good story if this person has 100 million followers and and they look like this and they X Y andz boxes and they fulfill corporate mandate you know whatever you know it's there are there's so many factors at playing and it's one part like ah I'm the conspiracy theorist but it's also just part of like I've existed in this world I've talked to businesses I've studied all these platforms and there's so much more Beyond you know there's so much more that goes beyond just like the success of like this was a good piece of content or this is a creator that I like or this is a channel that's cool right there's there's some people are definitely getting like prefer treatment every now and then for lack of a better term like it's not making or breaking careers but there's definitely like we've seen it happen where some people get claimed on something or they get a strike or whatever you want to say like they get ads taken off their video and then somebody else who did the exact same thing didn't because you've been a good boy for so long that you kind of like flew under the radar and the system just didn't wasn't tracking you as harshly as was somebody else right yeah um and people definitely want to push something whether people like it or not well it's also I mean and it also makes business sense in a lot of cases too where it's like hey these are all platforms that are based on ad rates and this and that and and if you're and if you're an adverti like if you're like a platform you're selling a bunch of ads to uh you know a bunch of people six months out in advance 12 months out in advance and and they're expecting a certain number of views and if all of a sudden like this person gets cancelled or or these views disappear or whatever it's like uhoh we just so we're on the hook for a lot of views or a lot of Impressions or whatever we need so we need to create some level of stability and future proofing and we need to control the system to some extent in order to make sure that like the unpredictability of this business doesn't hamper this this you know 1050 hundred million deal that we did over here so we got to like make it work whatever yeah yeah and God knows how many lawsuits they have under the covers constantly like month on month they must be just bad their lawyer team must be constantly just like putting out fires left right and center with the amount of people on the platform well that's I mean that's one of those things where it's like you know in my retirement a lot of people are like what are you going to do next what are you going to do next and and one of the popular ones that gets thrown out to me a lot is like oh you're going to be CEO of YouTube and I'm like nope like I I would you you could not pay me enough to do that like hey do you want to be the most hated person in in America where it's like like the the legislator the legislators hate you like the audience constantly hates you the Creator like you are a Nexus of like hatred you're a lightninging Rod of hate and it's like I'm I'm good man I'm fine yeah yeah I really don't want to do that job right no speaking of people asking what you're doing out uh after your retirement and say as much or as little about this as you want um and I first wanted to ask like what are you doing right now but instead I'm going to rephrase it as someone who's off the platform and doesn't have to worry about the grind on YouTube what are you what are you currently passionate about like what's exciting to you right now and what what gets you up every day other than your child obviously yeah he definitely wakes me up very early every day uh so that's that's cool uh no um I mean here's the thing like even though I'm not on the platform and I'm not like I'm still on GT live and so I I still you know do our like uh our gaming channel and things like that but but even though I'm not like doing the the main channels anymore I'm still behind the scenes helping Mentor the the creators I'm teaching them I'm you know we're we're going through like vo lessons and scripting lessons and I'm trying to like help them kind of learn how to find their own voices how to you know kind of speedrun my process in a lot of ways and we've and we've been doing that for the last year you know some a lot of the the creative directors who who've taken over the channels at this point they've been you know the longest one has been with us for six years um you know other everyone has been at least a year and the training regimen has been at least a year to to get people going and and get them to where they are now and they're still learning so uh two and a half I I believe I calculated the other day 2 and a half days of my week are spent in one-on-one meetings with them training them we we have a whole like curriculum on how to like how to YouTube how to be an expert on XY andz and how to contribute to the rest of the team and this and that so there's a lot of that process um can I go to game theory school it sounds awesome come on it'll be it be great to have you you could you could be you could be special gu speaker it'll be amazing um if you're looking to retire from uh Jack sepy like you can always come on over I have nothing to teach you can come over I've been brain dead for a long time man there's nothing going on in here uh but uh so we got so that's one thing like so a lot of it is doing that um a lot of it is also we're we're working on a lot of uh projects in the background um I mentioned the fashion show that we have going on uh and that's been kind of like a a long process where we've we're crafting together this this live Fashion Show event that's happening in La um and it is US plus a couple other creators all who are doing interesting things in the apparel fashion space um all Under One Roof and so it's basically like six shows all in one that are kind of like being funnel through us which is kind of fun um yeah so that's that's been a cool one that I've been helping out in the background um we have a a mystery music project that we're working on right now so uh we have a some really ented musicians on staff and I'm like I I want a opportunity for you to show off the cool stuff that you're able to do like you guys are awesome I I want there to be a spotlight for you guys and so uh they we it's called lfi Uh hopefully it's it's launching in May uh but basically the idea of it is it's a Loi Channel with mostly it's not quite Loi but it's close um it's like like lowii music and in different genres and hidden in the music and hidden in the visuals and stuff like that there's a there's a story around it there's like and and it's like an ARG that you can solve while you're like chilling out and listening to the music that just relaxing and stuff so that's it it's exactly what you said earlier Sean where it's like are you trying to make sleeper agents are people just going to have this on and be like kill the president like I really have to like craft a theory and kill a president right now right I'm so compelled to subscribe to Game Theory and also no worship matpat what's that yeah there's a lot of subliminal messaging matpat for King Matt Pat for king um yeah but it's that's it's all part of the plan my friends so I'm yeah I'm passionate about world domination at this point I'm passion about my my presidency my my presidency run um so you know all that good stuff uh no and and and so there's there's a couple of these kind of like bigger scale more narrative driven projects that you we would never have been able to do on the channel and I hope they work and I hope people like them and I think people really dig them but it's it's fun and just gets gets me to express different creative sensibilities well SP lighting the the team and what they're doing which is cool um so that's really fun and then yeah like you said like I there's been so many games that I've wanted to play that I've put on the back burner because I'm like oh those won't work on the channel and oh I I can't play them on GT live and and like but I've always wanted so I have this big list of all these games that I'm like oh these this is my like bucket list or like my to-do list of games books um we're really into to travel and so Steph and I like we haven't gotten to take many vacations we've taken a lot of trips but we've never taken many vacations you're always record and we a lot of travel this year weing down INX for AIT we're going to Paris in a couple weeks we're uh going to Greece with Ali for a little bit you know like and so we're doing a little bit of a like a a little World Tour not a world tour but like a couple spots here and there but travel and and experiencing the world the world's so cool and living yeah living living having a living a fruitful life experiencing things yeah I mean and that's and that's what it is right like I think one of those things that's easy to forget when you're in the content bubble is that the the world is out there right uh a couple weeks after we did the last video Steph and I took a trip to Utah in Colorado with Ali and we just hiked through the national parks there and there was that realization of like there's Arches National Park and the Grand Canyon and stuff like that and and there's that realization of like these places are here and they're here all the time Round the Clock ready to be explored and ready to be viewed and appreciated right and and that's awesome and it's like I could be sitting in front of a computer doing this or and and and working and grinding and doing stuff and there's value to that and I and I still like doing the work and and working on projects and stuff but I also just like experiencing the world and and being that person who's able to go and experience those things that are just waiting for you to take advantage of it it's awesome yeah I mean that's I mean the the the character of a human is always like grow up family kids house retire then you get to do what you want then you get then you die yeah right yeah right there's that sliver there where it's like oh finally I get to experience things but I'm too old to experience things yeah yeah so it's I think it's cool to be at an age where you're able to retire and do what you want and kind of like experience the world and grow your brain and see other cultures and do you have a like a pie in the sky pipe dream like one project that you've always wanted to do that's like sitting up there way top of the Shelf cuz for me it's like I want to write a novel at some point and I'm like that's that just seems like an impossible task for me but something to reach for yeah is there something like that you've always wanted to do I just want I just want to host a game show man I like I don't want to necessarily be the one who produces the game show I like I am tired in in a lot of ways I'm I'm enjoying making things but I'm tired of being the guy at the central focal point of making everything right like I it's always been me my vision my creative my ideas my brainstorming all this stuff and it's great if I could give you an analogy you're basically the prism with which all ideas get split out on the other side plenty of our visual listeners out there do you think that that would be hard for you as a person who has always been the person that's contributed to every facet do you think that you would be able to like just be the host do you think that that would be tough I here's the thing I think like yes I I think I think it would be hard but I think I could do it and I'd enjoy it because here's the thing like I could never let go of anything on Game Theory because at the end of the day it was my show my channel my business right and so for me to not touch every script and not look at all the edits and things like it would be it was hard to get to that point or it was and and in a lot of cases I didn't get to that point especially with scripts like the editors I got to a point where I'm like I trust the editors on on almost every episode there's a couple I'm going to pop in you know that are more important or more specific or whatever but like but when it came to scripting I I was in the weeds up until the final episode like tinkering working on all that stuff right because it was my voice and I was represented there I think with a game show if it was produced by someone else and it was clearly someone else's project I'm just there as as talent and having fun and and hosting and having a good old time because it's not my project and my show I think people like I would would be okay with it like you know not being in the weeds I think I'd give suggestions and I think I'd be like hey have you thought about this or hey have we considered this or whatever and I think that would be that that's just in my nature as a guy who likes to again teach people equip people with knowledge and and like try to make the things that we work on the best possible but if that wasn't you know if they're like yeah that's too hard or that doesn't work or whatever like that's I'm okay that's fine um I get it so it would just just be fun I did a I did a show uh with go90 back in the day um called called the runner I haven't heard that in a long time right go I know that is I was gonna say nor should you Ethan no uh the whole the whole it was a Verizon it was basically like as everyone trying to make their own platform for like premium video like oh YouTube's got like the crap videos but like go n you know we've got the premium videos and go90 is the one that has the content that makes you want to go 90 with your phone it's the ones that makes you want to turn your phone 90° so you can watch it in w screen um okay that was that was the whole shtick really worked yeah not so much um no but the show that I did there was actually the the one and only thing that actually got people over there which was fun um it was it was a nice but it was a a uh show called The Runner and it was a cross country Manhunt show where you had this one person who no one had ever seen before and teams that were hunting this person and they would be in the same city at the same time and they have to figure out like where this guy was and stuff it was it was really fun it was ahead of its time um but that was a production that I got to host and was handled by the production teams who do stuff like Survivor and things like that so like they came in really well prepared they knew it all um and so I was able to come come in and and they would call me in to consult about like hey what do you think the internet would think about this or you know do you think uh the audience would enjoy X Y and Z and so like there was a good back and forth there but at the end of the day it was their show and it was just like me getting the challenge of working through it and and solving the mystery of the day and this and that which was a lot of fun um and so like being able to achieve that again would be great but it it it would take an adjustment but I think I'd be okay with it but that's my Pie in the Sky game show I just want someone just give me a game show that's all I want you heard him folks give mat p a game show all of the billions of viewers of brain leak give m p a game show hey you're you're more than welcome to host some pirs of thank Miss if you want if we could turn if we could make a game show segment for you I mean I I would love to be a I mean I had such a good time last year but and thank you again for having me be a part of it it was it's such an incredible event and it was so much fun I'm sorry if I came on I'm sorry if I came on a bit strong I I feel I feel like my energy level might have steam rolled you a little bit I that was one of my things when I left that I was like I'm so glad Matt does what he does cuz you're on stage for that long and you're doing it for that long that you kind of just become brain dead you have someone talking in your ear and you have so many like spinning are the Audi people backstage is everything okay what are we at so for you to come out with energy like towards the middle end I can't even remember when you were but it like it just reinvigorates everything and especially when there's other people on stage who are a bit more shy and a bit more subdued and are a bit afraid of like cracking eggs in their heads and with the audience coming up on stage like I thought it was great oh I don't think you have anything to apologize for no I think I think that's that's one of the other like retirement projects that I'm I'm debating and it's like oh would I would I like to do this would be like a like a live tour cuz I know like you guys have done tours right and and it's one of those things where my my background is in theater and and that those sorts of experiences with the live audience on a stage and you feel the energy and there's that give and take with the audience uh is is so satisfying for me and so exciting and invigorating um I was at Pax a couple weeks ago PAX East and it was amazing and I I gave a presentation there about just like my my life and Game Theory and and again it was one of those like it was a a pack theater of like 3,000 people and it was it was so awesome and I like oh I I miss this and I love this and and that's that's the other thing that I I debate like and one of the things that would not get me out of retirement but like a new project that I would probably open up as like hey is there like a map pad on tour kind of thing um cuz that would be a lot of fun for me so yeah I think touring is great I think it's a anybody that does this type of content I think should go out on a tour because it's so fun to do it's such a different energy it's a different skill set it kind of It kind of ruined my ability to record videos after I did it because I'm like there's no one here laughing and I'm I don't know what to do it was it was so much harder to like keep the energy going yeah but doing a live show in front of people was one of the coolest things I think I've ever done to to the point where I'm like I want to do another one I just I need to figure that maybe I need to retire for one of those to happen where I'm like I need to find the time Gap to figure out when I would go on tour to do anything like that go the retired YouTubers tour guys oh D that would that would be great now that's an idea I okay I'm in I Quit yeah there it is hey guys you know you know how like a week ago I said I had two years like sorry I hate to pull the I talk to mtat the other day and I'm G everyone just hates me it's like oh no for an hour convinced me I need to leave yeah that should be the title of this episode it's just map pack convinced Shawn to quit YouTube that's great yeah put in the I'm in two yeah you coming with you coming with us map convinced Sean and Ethan to quit YouTube what now this this might be a little sad but what was that like if you could sum it up in a word or a sentence pressing and record on the final goodbye internet video what did that feel like oh it it was it was bittersweet and relieving but also yeah very bit like Bittersweet is absolutely like the the the theme of it where it is it's that moment of like it's a moment of closure and it's a moment of immense relief because you've been carrying it around and it it's been a it's been a secret and it's been kind of building up and and there's all this and you have all this expectation for it is it going to be right is it going to come out okay things like that and and there's that moment of hey I I got through it it's it's one of the hardest videos to that I've ever made you know and and Incredibly personal and Incredibly vulnerable and you're you're scared cuz m yeah I mean Sean you you just said it like you just did yours a couple weeks ago not your goodbye video but like where where you you're I mean it's it's opening yourself up and and admitting vulnerability and fear and you want people to know how much you appreciate them and and that this isn't trying to abandon them at all and that this isn't anything about because the community to me has always been the most important and I know like nowadays it's about like numbers and subscribers and brand deals and like monetization and and the audience and the fans and it's like no like I come from the decade where it's like oh no it's a community like we are we are all United here in our Collective nerd Dum and we're all a little bit different in our in our neurology and we all like to fiddle with things and and theorize about things right and so I wanted to make sure that everyone felt appreciated and that they understood my my perspective and and where I was at and why it it made sense for me and and also for them and that also that like I I wasn't wasn't truly gone ever but that that relationship lives on um so it is it it was there was there was a bit of a delayed reaction to it where I had that I I I I hit stop recording and there's that moment of of relief and like immediate sadness and you're just like kind of breathing through it but then later in the day actually there was another moment where I was back in in the same space and I was I was cleaning up some things and I was kind of there alone and it was dark and quiet and the the day had kind of ended and it was one of those where it's like a palpable difference in the room and and your relationship with the room had changed and you you look at it and you're like oh this is different now and and something has shifted and that again it was and again it was that moment of like let me sit down and process that it's that grieving process again like it's let me sit down and process this because this place that's been so important to me and so familiar to me and and such an intrinsic part of my life you you can't go back there again or like it your relationship to it has changed fundamentally and you can go back there but it means something different and it's it's validating and sad and a little bit scary it's it's it's a lot of emotions all mixed together absolutely obviously you said that uh this had been a plan for uh a year plus but how much time in between actually recording that and posting it was there which one the the final final Theory or the the announcement video the announcement the announcement um that one was it was a couple days actually it was it was a very it was a fairly quick turn um usually we budget about a week um to to doing things um but this one was a little bit faster just because of a variety of different reasons um but it was it was a lot faster and and also it's a lot easier to edit which is great uh in fact that was in fact that was my big note to the editors is I'm like I want as few edits to this is possible because the more edits like like I want it I want it to be clear that this was something that was just like communicated from my heart to them you know I don't want it to feel like it was a corporate mandated video where like every line had to be it was like no this is an honest conversation and I don't want it edited I want it to be real um but no it was it was quick uh which which I think was good cuz if there had been a long delay between there and and the actual like publication of it it would have been you know you're you start second guess it does it lose relevancy like do you feel differently uh so no I was glad that it it was a a quick turn for sure yeah RI if I was to use an analogy I'd say it's kind of like an exorcism great yeah no I think yeah I was going to say I think Sean has an analogy for exactly this scenario when those lights went off and closing time started playing in the background and you thought I have exercised the demon and you hung up your cross uhhuh think that's when you knew this this sounds like a really good exorcism movie the the where where the awful one right it's either I mean it's either great or it's so bad it's great yeah someone has a possessed YouTube channel and they need to exercise it and and then no you had me at closing time honestly the the the music dropped the needle dring time F in the fist in the air slams the cross on the wall Freeze Frame did you just go into the room and be like that's just a theory like a soft spoken a game theory and you just turned around fist in the air cling time did you did you schedule that video or did you manually publish it uh no it was it was scheduled but I was but I was there when it like like it was scheduled to release just because that's that's our process and that's our procedure at this point but I was there to watch it tick over and and I was actually so I was the one who pressed schedule because we have a we have a team of Channel managers who kind of like help package videos at this point and and schedule them and this and that but I requested to be the person to hit schedule um like scheduled and and it wasn't scheduled that far again it wasn't scheduled that far in advance so there was a little bit more of an immediacy to it and then I was there to watch it kind of like change over and and see like okay there and it's live and there it is and and thus and then you're like ah eight out of 10 change the thumbnail change the thumbnail that was definitely a one of 10 video no doubt that was that wasy if your retirement video isn't a one of 10 you [ __ ] up so much yeah if the retirement video isn't one of 10 you probably should have retired a while ago to be honest oh God yeah oh man go go back throw him back on the couch get give him to cry you know hey tears bre views yeah spit tear spit tear yeah so quick somebody spit on [Laughter] me well mat it's been great to have you on the episode thank you so much for being here I learned a lot I want you to be my dad I'll be your dad I I'll be whatever you need me to be absolutely don't give over too much of yourself you're still in Internet mode okay this was a test and you failed damn it hey I said told you Daddy you say no now I said I'll be your dad not your daddy okay you you took it there took it there I'll be your okay sorry I'm just more excited about our live retirement tour like honestly like retired YouTuber tour that is that is a thing like we got to get who else are we getting on this thing got to get Jenna Marbles got to get I mean there's there's a lot we got to get the OG's back we need to get some like real dinosaurs on this thing oh yeah including an actual dinosaur like the guy oh I mean honestly the the inflatable Raptor suits that was a big thing for a while like that that's was they're retired at this point we should we should all come out dressed as doe yeah we can open it with the Harlem Shake yeah be sick oh man all all flicking fidget Spinners yeah oh this is great it'll be like no the Jurassic tour yeah the theur Jurassic tour from the over the hill YouTube honestly you could do you could do like a yearly event too and each one's like rebranded it's like oh the Jurassic tour and it's like the over the hill tour like this we're still not dead tour you hey I'd rather be over the hill than buried under it right guys yeah exactly closing [Laughter] time oh well thank you so much for coming on this was for leaking fantastic oh man we leaked all over this place and I'm I could be happier Now Matt there is one final question yes and Sean you said that you wanted to ask this question Matt have you ever [ __ ] yourself that's how we started our podcast was me sharing a very embarrassing [ __ ] story so just you know everyone yes yes I have and it and actually it was uh I here I'll I'll I can't tell the full story just because there's certain privacy things I have to follow through but it was part of it happened as part of filming the final Theory oh drop it and quick end the episode here people have to theorize yeah theorize about that what scene of the final Theory am I just you know heavy load but that's just a a theory a [ __ ] Theory a lot of them happen honestly and D bra leag

Channel: Brain Leak

Views: 97,790

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Id: E4kgkCLG4wc

Length: 99min 3sec (5943 seconds)

Published: Wed Apr 24 2024