Marcus Grodi: A Presbyterian Minister Who Became Catholic - The Journey Home (9-17-2007)

and welcome to a very special not EWTN bookmark but journey home episode I'm Doug Keck the host for tonight a special program will we get to talk to Marcus Grodi in the beloved host of the journey home it's a little bit past his 10th anniversary but we thought it was an opportunity to talk to him a little bit about his history as a convert and also his experiences on this wonderful program that started way back in September that was actually the fifth of 1997 and I just want to remind people they can call in at 1-800 to two one nine four six zero or 205 two seven one two nine eight oh also emails of course journey home at ewtn.com great to have you here Marcus as always great fun well the third or fourth time yeah I've been on a couple of times one you know we actually did this one time back in 1998 after the first anniversary and of course it is 10 years now and we had that wonderful show with Mother Angelica we ran a couple of weeks ago and then last week you had dr. Tom Howard and his lovely wife on right it's kind of because he was the first game of the very first good course guest on the show yeah and in fact we were thinking about that first time with Mother Angelica and I know in a minute or so we wanted to show a clip from that and we'll go to that back to December of 1996 and she's right now what what exactly how did you end up on that show give us a little backdrop to how you ended up on December of 96 on that show with Mother Angelica well I can tell the audience I think they've known if they watch the show for ten years I I didn't come to this program because I have a huge background in television in fact tonight they the first time they've seen the journey home started by a professional so but I came to it really out of mother's mercy and her invitation I had been invited in the summer to be on John Nets program dr. hall and dr. Hawn and I think Jeff Cavins so that was in July in 1996 we were here but like we were on the bund at life we were talking about our journeys and about the conversions of clergy and when we were here Chris Herrington saw the are taping and invited Ken and I to come back in December to do the same thing with mother and so we came back and that I'd only been doing the coming home Network international you know full-time for about a half year and of course like many of the guests on EWTN we look at the opportunity to be an IDI of a TN as hopefully is going to help more people know about our work sure right and it's funny because when we were getting ready for the program on that day mother had been traveling a whole day and after a long day she comes into the studio about 10 minutes before the program and you know Ken and I are excited we're gonna be on EWTN I mean this is like the greatest things ever happen well mother looked like she's about ready to fall asleep because he'd had a long day and she oh yeah mark I met you once before good good to see it we had a little prayer we got on the show and I'm looking all Ken she's gonna fall asleep because we hoping keep her enthused right when you watch the clip you see the show god bless Mother Angelica but also thank God for the enthusiasm that he gave her for now to what we're doing but I think to me the commitment was her enthusiasm for the need for our audience to hear what the Spirit is doing in the lives of men and women and their conversions right if we can let's go and see if we can go to that clip with Mother Angelica with Marcus and Ken Hal back from December of 96 Esther years so that I had so many letters and emails and phone calls from Protestant pastors from every imaginable denomination in the United States that in fact last June decided to go full-time because it needed the time and effort to help these men their families this is awesome that you have a lot of names well we do know we need to have you on every couple of two or three months so that we keep up and let the people know because there may be somebody in our audience all over the world that's getting the same boat you were and they would have a place to go I remember so she started out with every couple of months but as most people find out when you deal with Mother Angelica it doesn't stop that I have no idea I really had no lead ever cross my mind that it would be this and then when I did get the call right I was assuming it would be as is normally done here you come down for a couple days you need to do 13 or 1400 series that's what I thought she wanted but she wanted this live program right right and it's interesting too because Ken Howell was on the show there yes you and originally Ken was going to participate in the program on Anna talked about this yes we talked about that possibility course he with his teaching responsibilities is more difficult for him and I think what immediately progresses because we had so many names of potential guests that have progressed into what we have now in the program right as you can see for all those to know the idea originated with Mother Angelica exactly was our idea that night after that show I know she called Michael Warsaw and said we got to do this and I remember she had asked me she said well what do you think you think Marcus can do this and I said I think he'll be perfect for this thinking although I've got to say something okay because I remember that week before the first show and I was I'm telling you I've never done live TV I had four right and we were here the show was on Friday and I came on with like the set and on Thursday we were gonna do a run-through so the first time I'm going through the the stick of the program which is the same we've always done we were sitting at the original desk was kind of look like a Star Wars and we grabbed a random person in the studio to be my my person I was gonna interview so we did a fifteen kind of run through the show and then you said to me okay we'll come into the office and we'll critique it so I go into this member go in the office and all the producers the designers are all sitting and they were watching the show and you're saying yeah the color needs to be different here and the tree needs to be moved here and the camera here I may have a light changed your okay ready to go I'm saying wait a second well you were fine well but you don't know you know you know it's like would you be my friend the cameras and then that night when we did the show it base was five four three two one go yeah I mean that's live television but it worked it's worth like we're grace of God worked fine and and and again you know what's great about this program that's so much about EWTN obviously it's not the artifice of course we don't want to get in the way of the message you know we got to be careful that we're not trying to get too fancy for the message which is pretty straightforward and and obviously the great charm of this program an appeal is the personal witness and stories of the people you interview right right its mother really saw something there in you know he was she was motivated partially by the letter she would receive from Catholics who were bemoaning the fact that their children and family had left the church and she saw that by hearing week after week the conversion and reversion of Catholics coming back to the church that it would give hope and it's done that and you're exactly right I mean this show I haven't changed the format in 10 years basically my job as a host to stay out of the way so we can hear these stories know what God has done yeah a little facilitation basically is what see what you do thinking back to your conversion process what did the Cub Scout Oath have to do with your conversion to Catholicism the Cub Scout oh my six-year-old son John Mark and his Cub Scout Oath which goes I promise to do my best to do my duty to God and my country and somehow I soon found myself faced with a host of confusing theological administrative questions I was in the journey of my story and what is truth that's right well there's a conviction in that Cub Scout Oath which calls us to stand for what is true you know and there's my son reciting it and I'm recognizing it as a Presbyterian pastor that believed that the Bible was the sole foundation infallible inspired Word of God and that I knew that I was responsible not just to my children as a model to them to be a faithful father but that I'd be responsible to God for what I taught that what I was teaching was true because there are people sitting in the pew that basically trusted that I did my homework and so that what I was teaching was true well the summary the whole thing is that I began to realize in a it's in a difficult way over the years that my Presbyterian slant and interpretation of scripture was radically different than the Methodist pastor the Baptist pastor Assembly of God Church of Christ Episcopalian who all believed that the Bible was a sufficient and so the problem it was at the Bible the problem was the problem me and that led to her a long struggle that eventually made me leave the pastor it not to become Catholic that was the farthest thing from my mind it's that if I can't be sure that what I'm teaching is true then I shouldn't be in the pulpit and that was the reason I resigned in the first but becoming Catholic I mean that was the last thing mm-hmm ever crossed my mind for the first 40 years of my life I never had a Catholic share of their faith with me were you considered anti-catholic in the way you thought about things just was never on your radars I was I would say subconsciously anti-catholic just because of the way that we had always learned the faith as Lutheranism well your Protestant your protesting against something right so you have a view in seminary we all heard the Protestant angle on history on Scripture and theology against philosophy all those things now there were others who were much more vehemently vocally anti-catholic I wasn't there but that I believe that the Pope was the Antichrist yeah I didn't believe he was right right you know there was a lot of things that I had as always a part of my well did you use in a sense of when you brought people out of the church or into whatever Church you were had at the time Lutheran or Congregationalist kind of situation did you go more for kind of the gentle approach you actually have on this program as well as that the approach you used back then I believed that my responsibility as a pastor was to bring people to Jesus Christ and frankly if they weren't being fed over there and they came to my congregation and liked my preaching that I had a responsibility to preach the gospel to them to bring them to Jesus Christ I I didn't usually get into a critique of the churches they came from my corrugations were X everybody right I'm a Texas companions X Lutheran's X Baptists X everybody who were not happy with where they were coming from and they liked our evangelical preaching and style you know the point was not to critique that church to say well you this is the fullness of the faith and that's what I believed as a presbyterian until I realized why was my presbyterian slant and you know where that really came out is new members classes because now I've got X Baptists Methodists Lutheran's they're all in the class and I'm teaching them what a Presbyterian believes and the question is what we always believed baptism this way why do we believe it this way now and that's when I realized it wasn't just what the scripture was saying it's what I thought the scripture was saying versus their other backgrounds did you come to realize that there were that many differences even between what various Protestant denominations were teaching in a sense through hearing that and I knew it at seminary when Scott Haun and I were in seminary together our seminary had seminarians from forty five-plus denominations so we even knew then that there were all these different views on baptism on the end-times on meaning of sacraments the meaning of marriage we knew that but I think we all felt deep inside ourselves that well you know our angle was the true one if they studied the Scriptures more they would know better in a sense it was the kind of fundamentals the things you agreed on and other things you could kind of was at a local church but you're saying in a sense that even though they kind of said that underneath it was kind of this feeling well that's right but this is writer for me hid to have said publicly that I believe that the presbyterian church was the true church established by Jesus Christ and was the the one church that had it correct I would have felt very awkward to say that publicly but if I didn't somehow believe that internally then I shouldn't be a Presbyterian pastor and that's why eventually resigned right because I couldn't be certain which of us was right I believed in Scripture I believed in Jesus Christ but which Church Catholic Church wasn't even a possible option but I wasn't sure which one so that's why let me ask you you mentioned the fact that you were on the abundant life before you won the show with Mother Angelica but that wasn't the first time you were actually on EWTN or seen it on EWTN right that's right that's right I in fact I wasn't sure if that had actually broadcast but we had done a program in 93 at that time I had been a Catholic about six months I've been invited by Franciscan University to head up the light and Life Foundation so I was a director than of the light and light foundation for North America and getting ready for John Paul's appearance in Denver we came here we did a half an hour read-through of the booklet okay now the light and life booklet and then at the end I did a one and a half minute standing head talking about the light Life Foundation like a car shop a little commercial practically and that was my first time I met some of your met Jody you don't have been something like Jody Copeland been here forever yeah exactly and speaking of the program everything started I thought it was interesting looking back to 1997 because in ten years later that it was in January of 97 when life on the rock premiered and Raymond's show basically premiered in August of 97 as the world over and of course your program on September 5th so quite a bit happened in 97 into 98 not that far down the line than West Rifai and vivo program started which was our Spanish live program we have another new live Spanish program on its way and also actually bookmark actually took flight in January of of 98 so it's interesting how many of these things like came together all at once well and it also sees mothers recognizing the the power of the live program and how I think interesting that is to the audience the audience likes the feeling it seems of being involved being able ask questions of the guests and that's been very successful for you wtn for the last ten years and all these programs you've mentioned now also besides this TV program you've also been involved with radio and and early on you had a radio show and then you were one of our open line hosts but you're not on open line anymore right you changed to something called what deep in sweep in scripture divas go through why'd you decide to change that wasn't as we wanted you off of open live that's for sure I hope that wasn't the novel of course not the the first opportunity that you gave me for scripture way back when I began I did abiding in Christ program in many ways the the deepest scripture is still that desire because first of all I do believe in the power of radio for evangelization of course I believe in television too but there's an also unique aspect of radio that can get privately into people's lives in a way that television can't always do that and I've always listened to Bible preachers and I know when I was a Protestant the influence that Bible preachers especially bible scripture scholars have on people's life l listen to it they listen had on catholics yeah and on Catholics especially on Catholics and you go to Christian radio and they're ours there's some old guys that have been there tapes on their Bible studies have been on there for years and years and years and years the same guys won't over and over and over but it it was frustrating because I listen to them and I know that they're not teaching what I would consider the truth about the interpretation of Scripture so to have the opportunity to do deep in Scripture has been something I've always wanted to do even before I had the opportunity television the idea of doing scripture study and radio and so when you've given the opportunity you know just very grateful for that right and and does that come from Newman then pardon from Newman in a sense that deep in Scripture and history and I hold that the deep in history or well you know actually this the coming home network international we do are deep in history conferences and I remember trying to come up with a slogan because I'd sit in an airplane for example and I'd have something that would say the coming on network international and they'd say hey what do you do for a living and when I say well I help Protestant ministers become Catholic well the conversation ends like that you know it doesn't go very far so I wanted something that would be you know a stepping stone to a discussion about evangelization and so the idea of being deep in history deep in Scripture and deep in Christ as kind of a slogan so that someone would say oh that's interesting deep in history deeper and then we could talk about you know Newman's idea to become deep in history to cease to be Protestant the the relationship be the reason I think that people who are deep in Scripture but end up going off on tangents is partially because they're not deep in history they don't know the context of Scripture you know the contents of a beer it's got to be both right yeah the idea these things the Bible alone taken out of its context and also taken out of the 2000 years you know that tradition yes it's taken out of that can so often lead to misunderstanding of Scripture mm-hmm so that's we've tried to do in that radio program let me ask you before we're gonna take a break you know you've got the journeys home book and even your how firm a foundation both belleville through the ewtn religious catalogue of course but i was wondering when when you were on your process who was the most influential testimony you heard of someone who had converted was it Scott Hahn or was it someone else on my journey when I was in the journey well first I'd have to say Scott and that's partially for a very private reason because Scott and I had have known each other now since like nineteen seventy eight or nine so we've been friends for a long time I knew him when he is was as vehement of a Calvinist as as I'd ever known and I was a Calvinist so is he so when I heard his story just the fact that he would become Catholic and I know the integrity of his witness and his life and his love for Jesus Christ his love for Scripture if he could become Catholic wait a second I've got at least listened to his reasoning so that was what turned the table for me in many ways but many of the men and women whose journeys had a big a big influence on me eventually we're all guests on the journey home program father ray Ryland and of course Thomas Howard his books evangelicals not enough is the main book that brought my wife Marilyn it was yes to the church father ray Ryland in his journey into the church and he became a mentor for me on the journey Paul Thigpen his story Stephen would all these guys there I Nev obviously has done some shows for us a radio show see when you knew him before and you know how absolutely surrendered to Jesus Christ they were there's no question about their faith and their commitment to scripture and then they become Catholic that's like wait a second what was the biggest surprise to you like that if someone who you saw make that journey and you just couldn't believe it well Scott actually was one of the one of the main ones of course I've had some guests in the show like the Majed to say i can't remember the the guest name right now but the wonderful Eastern Rite Catholic monk know right it was a motorcycle I mean it was to hear their the change you know recently we had the the priest now who was you know kicked out of Japan because of his wildlife to see these stories as witness of how God in His love and grace can reach into somebody even when they're as far as you can imagine from God to me it's always an encouragement to anyone watching that God knows our hearts better than we do and he can reach down and touch someone's heart in very miraculous ways can you think of the time that your heart was touched on this program by what someone said oh boy there have been a few times when I was glad the camera wasn't turned on me because the audience may not know this but often when I meet with the guest beforehand I don't have them go through every detail of the story I need to know if there's a few red flags that we need to be aware of you know there any areas I don't need to ask questions about but other than that you know I've I've know the guests have been screened and so I I pretty well know but then when I hear the story and I remember one time when when one of my gasps there's lots of things but one guest had been a former Buddhist and he went through the journey and he had in the process had met this couple who were Catholics who were very friend of them they they they tried to befriend him but not strongly evangelize him and then he left he went off in his life and bla bla bla came back to the church in a very powerful way and then happened to meet those people and they say do you know we prayed a rosary for you every day for the past 22 years and when I hear that that struck me that night because you know we often think well it's just book that saved them you know or that tape or that CD or that person but often it's the prayers of people who will not give up to keep praying for their children praying for their loved ones praying for it like in that case just someone they met that they said you know God's calling us to pray for that gentleman so we're gonna pray for him every day so we never know you know I'm saying they would never know but they had always kept praying for when you were doing the show and as you do the show each week let's talk about the screening process obviously did we go through Jim Jim Anderson um Anderson and one of the great hand maybe is he's the assistant director of the coming home Network International and I should mention this is on your radio I would maybe think of something that the beginning of the program we were always concerned about the journey home program in the coming home network that we get confused because unfortunately I named my apostolate with the word network in it and so we we Charlie's always make sure we say coming home network international so we make sure they see that it's it's really an apostolate that we do Jim is his main work is with the clergy and their families he's dedicated his life to spending emails and phones and letters on clergy on the journey all the time so whenever we receive a letter or a suggestion for a guest it goes to Jim he does a little bit of research and always comes to a committee and we're committee here if you may to make sure that it will be a good interview frightened at speaking of good interviews I was thinking have you been impacted in a sense where someone came up with a concept or an idea related to their belief in the faith that struck you as an angle you hadn't thought of before oh wow let's see we were supposed to talk about this in the prep from the show one time one thing that I had found on the show recently was when we have Ralph Martin on the show sure okay and what was funny about that it's something is that I in fact mother and I on an interview have talked about that it seems that one of the missing keys in the modern church is a balanced teaching on the fear of God you know it's the pendulum is slung to the love of God and it's all we heard about in the last 50 years you know but where's the fear of God we and mothers has flexed on this thing and I have to I had talked about a long time ago and I are talking on the show he brings it up and it's like all of a sudden we clicked in a way that we didn't even know that we clicked theologically we both all of a sudden saw that we see that the problems the needs of the church in the exact same way I mean I almost wanted to turn the cameras off and just talk to him for a while because it to us it was so clear that that is an issue that is a problem today and I've had that times were someone sharing in there well the funny thing for me is and I've I'll go on and give my journey uh asked to talk online and I have to be careful because sometimes I have to think wait a second was that in my journey was that somebody else's that was good I'm gonna come and include that in my story I don't that'll roll into my next book speaking of different journeys you've done journeys obviously mostly here in the United States and we've had guests international here but you've actually gone a couple of times to Europe the UK and Ireland what's different about those experiences or are they the same well it's need to be in the environment where they themselves went went through the journey I think it brings to the audience who's watching a sense that this is not merely an American phenomenon okay the Holy Spirit is bringing men and women home to the Catholic Church not just in quote Protestant America you don't have all these did not you know it's happening in Canada it's happening in England Ireland we know it's happening in France we know it's happening in Germany we know it's happening in Australia well I've got potential guests right Scandinavia we've got potential guests we could have on the program from all these different places South America I know that Pepe Alonso and his show often has guests from some of the marek right who are converts right oh the point is this is not merely an American phenomenon this is something that the spirit is doing today around the world which is a great thing mm-hmm when you talk to someone from another part of the world are you surprised at the air issues are they the same issues or are they different it's a both/and mm-hmm it's both and it makes it interesting as a host you know that being a host you know when you're trying to ask questions and you realize that sometimes you're not clicking because I'm thinking as an American and do an Irish but I will say that what was a great experience for me both when I did interviews in Canada and Ireland particularly and I guess London too is that I had an idea of what it was like there what the church was like let's say in Ireland and then I when I arrived and talked to people talk to the guests talked about their journey I realized that the state of the church in Ireland was a whole lot different than I thought when I and it opened our eyes to the need for what John Paul called the new evangelization in Ireland prison very good wouldn't have to leave it there for the moment but there's much more ahead obviously with Marcus Grodi here on their journey home a special edition of the journey home you can email us or you can call us right here it's one eight hundred to two one nine four six zero or two oh five two seven one two nine eight zero journey home at ewtn.com much more stay with us on this special edition and thank you so much for staying with us on this special edition of the journey home and relax Marcus's here of course I'm just filling in to help interview him about his journey in our 10 years of this wonderful program here at EWTN the journey home let's go to an email right up Marcus you have seen that there were so many different views in all the different denominations how do you know that you are in the right one now how do you know that there isn't another church out there that has more truth may God bless Jim Jim thanks for that email that's one of those questions what you think might be real simple all right but it's been a question that we deal with a lot in our work so it I could see so many permutations let me remind the audience that first of all we walk by faith not by sight I mean it begins there there's kind of a circular argument if we say for example scripture alone is the authority upon which we build it then I believe in Jesus Christ all right well word scripture comma came from Jesus so we got kind of a circular thing here in terms of what we base our belief in Jesus and what comes from Scripture why don't we trust scripture well because that's his words we have this well the problem with it really comes down to use of authority all right if we have the Bible the Word of God we trust in Jesus Christ which denomination gets it right all right so we got all these interpretations but the scripture says that the pillar and foundation of truth is the church which church right 30,000 denominations which church so we have to keep and I'm going out from the scriptural standpoint we dig into scripture and we see that well where did Jesus establish the church Wow what would be the foundation for the church not just the point of Peter but the idea that in John 14 15 16 that he would give the Holy Spirit to the Apostles to lead them into truth so the idea is do we go to another deny me no when do we stop this issue we look at where he planted the truth Peter the Apostles the thing that most convinced me is that okay there we have that kind of beginning with Scripture and and Jesus and the Apostles in the spirit most of us would jump 1500 years 1,600 years 17 into the start of our denomination at the time without really taking note of a wait a second what was going on around that scripture in the beginning of that church and so as most of my guests it was the reading of early church fathers and asking us what was the trajectory of what Jesus planted in his apostles how did that trajectory flesh itself out when it did was it a Baptist Church was it a Presbyterian was a Lutheran what was it and when you see in Clement and Ignatius and early it was Catholic Bishops all of these structures even basically the Trinitarian understanding and so again you say well where is this found well it's the Catholic Church from the beginning even your book how firm a foundation that's what it's about it's all about really doing that and also even the idea just before we go to a phone call the idea the Catholic Church is not a denomination right I didn't write right exactly that in fact the whole idea of denominations I think historically pretty much developed in the Americas because when we were in Europe when the faith was in Europe you either had state churches you know in the different or you had the Catholic Church or he had a little breakaway groups you know the Moravians or such but when they all came to America well the issue of a state Church you have Presbyterians which were the state Church of Scotland you have Lutheran's a state Church of Germany well what are they now Ballu well you do at the Wisconsin Synod but still the issue in society of denominations had to arise as we figured America how do we live with one another so it's easy to kind of see in America and at any given little town any church is about as old as the next the Catholic Church isn't that much older unless you're in New Mexico or someone or physically that building itself the building itself so you don't have a sense of history so the idea of denomination you can easily start thinking of the Catholic Church well that's that denomination that didn't but it's not a denomination right and of course our good Pope Benedict got in trouble by recently singing trying to state the truth what's the crane to clarify the distinction and with that being the case we want to take a phone call from Anastasia from Ohio are you on the line there yes I am thank you for taking my call I have a concern for our young people and I wanted to know if there are any books specifically published by markets or by Steve wood covering the common arguments that Ave angelical and non-catholics have that bring Catholics away from the church I'm an ex religious ed teacher and I've got children that are having faith crisis and I'm just wondering whether there's anything you could recommend we are there well the one book that comes to my mind is a book by Matt Pinto sure you know Adam did Adam and Eve have a belly button and he comes up with this creative title of course to attract young people and basically that is a book that deals with the basic apologetic questions of the church and it's a you know it's a wonderful book for them right I wish there were more and I'm sure there are in fact I think actually ascension press I think has a series of cards mm-hmm that's correct right it's a series of cards that defend it so ascension press like defenders of the faith there's yes there's some great stuff in ascension press I'm quite sure that a mass Road publishing has some good stuff for that as well as heating obviously faith and life series of Ignatius press right okay is a great place to begin but I will also say and I know you're doing this as a CCD director that you know I want to discourage adults from thinking what I need to find is a book to give my kids okay why why is that because we need a book to help us know the faith so that when we we're not just giving something that thinks that's going to save for living it for we need to know the faith so that we can explain it to them in a comfortable way they're gonna read a book and they're gonna say dad I don't understand this well it's not gonna help much of them if we come back so it sees I don't understand it either and we need to take some time first of all read the book first that you're going to give your child help yourself even if it's you the level for a child that's going to help us we're gonna see it from the angle of how they're trying to explain to Trinity and the reality and would your experience be the idea that you keep it in prayer and you work with your family and Trust to some degree that you know hopefully the Holy Spirit can work in that person's life at the same time right well I had a guest on the show guy Gruner remember the the pilot that who was in the prisoner of war camp for five and like the Hanoi Hilton yeah for five years and most of that and solitude and his conversion was amazing because he recognized that the reason he converted back to the faith where he completely left it was when he was in solitaire and they were trying to starve him to death convinced him to commit suicide he remembered by the grace of the Holy Spirit that suicide is a sin mm-hmm and where'd he learn that from from CCD class and in what his conversion emphasizes the fact of our planting the seeds in the hearts of our children you know I am NOT of the ill of the school that believes in age-appropriate education I am NOT of that because what they've done with that idea is they've taken some of the great truths of the faith they say you know a five-year-old doesn't understand that so they put it later when they should be planting the seed the way they used to in the four year old the five years of degrees effectively waters down the faith right yeah if you're gonna wait until we're approaching that when would you ever teach the Trinity do you understand the Trinity I don't completely understand the Trinity we do the best we can to describe it mystery is its Masada grow show so you start you plant the seeds early and I believe in that but what I'm saying in this is on the other hand we don't just drop a book in the child's hand and say okay go off in the corner read that we need to read it first we need to know our faith well so that it's a it's a partnership and and some degree even as we as parents we have to think about what are the things we in the steps we've taken during our life what are the things we could do going forward to maybe make sure that that faith is being inculcated maybe when it wasn't and obviously it's been difficult the last 30 or 40 years for many people in the sense of catechesis or lack of area of here's an email Marcus I work at an office environment people from many faith backgrounds I cannot tell you how intimidating it is to have lunch with these people interesting do you have any words of wisdom for me to be better prepared to tackle the onslaught of questions that I may be faced with on a day-to-day basis Donna from New Hampshire well of course we're living in a day there's never been a day in the history of the world when more resources haven't been available to help us know our faith right EWTN television radio CDs DVDs books so there are lots of books out there that can help you know your faith I'm sure if you go to uwt and all you go to the coming home Network website we've selected books uniquely for this task of helping us know our face so we can defend it or books that we can give away to those so there are lots of books out there one book that you mentioned Karl Keating I highly recommend 2,000 fundamental ins mentalism especially for what you're talking about because probably a lot of those people sitting with you around that table if they're anti-catholic that you and if they're expressing that it usually means they're from a more fundamentalist church the higher level churches more liberal churches are more what's the word I'm looking for I mean it doesn't make that big of a difference you know they're gonna be anti-catholic per se right because if nothing matters that much right well we're being a little flippant we say that but you know that's kind of where it comes down to but but if there's actively speaking against the church and they're most likely on the fundamentalist ill Karl Keating's book good thousand fundamentalism which is a wonderful book you know I read that book when I came into the church and when you asked me to do this program I thought oh man I'm gonna have to answer questions on air I won't have time to grab a book so I what book should I read to prepare for the program so I reread Karl Keating's book it is a it's an excellent book it helped me I know it is and it's because he is addressing the specific fundamentalist questions now there's since then since his book there have been lots of great books out there that you know Armstrong's books one I particularly like is the four witnesses by Rod Bennett Ryan the early church fathers Reds workbook there's great stuff out there much of it available through our catalog or online at our website we've got another phone call from Cindy from Delaware Cindy go ahead with your question for Marcus Grodi good evening thank you for taking my call this program is meant to so much to me I know the RCIA team that are in our parish and many of our catechumens coming in have been totally young church they're totally informed know very little about any faith and I was wondering Marcus what you could suggest to us what is the best thing that way that we can draw them in to our faith and to conversion experience that's not going to be too meaty for them since they're just on milk at this point so I'll listen for your answer and thank you so much and God bless you for your ministry yes that you know to a certain extent I I and I'm just speaking off-the-cuff here I'm not an expert in this so but to a certain extent I almost think it's a blessing when you have people interested in church that don't come with a lot of baggage okay to a certain extent they don't if they don't anything about the faith in a certain sense they're there right they're ready they're hungry and you teach them first of all this what we mentioned earlier that it's about faith we live by faith and not by sight and so they have to recognize that this whole journey of ours is is a surrendering to God in faith and you start you can build up on the basic teachings of the church and I'm a firm believer in the Catechism for a lot of stuff when you have people have come back to the church and they're bringing with them a lot of baggage sometimes that doesn't get cleared up in our CI yeah you'll even know what you're dealing with it I got in that's our CI process well what about your process when you came into the church did you go through our say I almost hate to mention that on the air we tried we started and and the first time we started the RCA program was well the problem for me was that I was a pastor in the same town where I was thinking of coming into the church that was a problem in itself so at first we had to drop out of our CI just because I didn't want to cause a quota scandal for my old congregation when they were hearing about I was becoming Catholic and then the second thing is that when I did start again the teacher of our CIA I'd get mad every time because what they were teaching wasn't true it wasn't right I mean I remember when we went through the baptism of our of our child who became Catholic before us you know if they were teaching us baptism and it had to go to the second session and we're all done talk about baptism and I raised my hand and I said but wait a second I thought baptism had something to do with sin there it wasn't even mentioned baptism is becoming a part of the community I'm welcoming it's me it isn't merely a rite of passage it has to do with sin and I don't know why they're not they're afraid to bring that up that's what it's about RCIA I think it's the fourth session the fourth step in RCIA it begins by saying and now that their converts and you move on and I want to scream because sometimes certain RCIA programs seem to have nothing they're hesitant to bring a person to a surrendered relationship to Jesus Christ well some of the concerns are they sometimes that people are either thinking well this person's really just here because they're getting married in the Catholic Church and the converting to make it nice or they don't want you to feel bad about where you've been well I think those are both part of it I think sometimes the are CIA directors have not themselves been formed very well right maybe they've gone to one of the local Catholic colleges and did some extracurricular studies in his summer to get some continuing ed credits I took a course at a Catholic colleges I won't mention the name that you know that the particular course was a New Testament studies course that was nothing but a critical higher critical thinking of the Scriptures ripping doubting everything about anything that said in the the rosary mm-hmm the professor basically said everything's a myth and that was our CI directors getting ready to go back right sure exactly one small experience I had when I was in my parish I went to one of the classes they were giving for the you know the CCD teachers and it was amazing I mean if you Jesus didn't found a church there were multiple churches and Peter wasn't really yeah he was kind of in charge but not really and you wonder why these teachers are out there saying what they're saying when they're not getting fed to begin with right and that's where I said you mentioned the Catechism I think it's so important we've got another email dear Marcus how bless we all are to be able to punch a little button and be instantly filled with all that you and EWTN give 24 hours a day thank you after ten plus years of experiencing so many conversion stories with your guests what is the greatest lesson you have learned god bless you for all you are and all you do Nancy from California she should be sitting here that's a blessing Nancy thank you for that it's an awesome question - I think you know week after week I always ask the same question you know what opened your heart I asked that to you once right when we weren't at one you realize right okay and that question is an expression of something that's fascinating to me and that is that certainly there's a horizontal aspect to conversion you know what book you're read who you heard what program you watched and you know you know the different things God uses to open people's hearts and and they raise you know I mean I know if ever mentioned on on the journey home that one of the key things that brought me back to Jesus was Jesus Christ Superstar and I'm always hesitant to mention it because I don't want to recommend people go out and watch it but I mention it just because God can use a lot of things right to open people's heart that's like horizontal but what fascinates me the thing that most facets after 10 years is that vertical mystery of God's grace that for we for reasons that are beyond our ability to discern will touch into someone's life I mean why you done and why me mm-hmm you know God loved us so much why I mean we could be doing a lot of other things out there if we hadn't been touched by grace probably doing the better we're doing this in fact well but the point is that by His mercy and I don't necessarily mean us doing TV but that we love him right we've come to know him when we know people out there that heard the same things we've heard seeing the same things but for some reason they weren't touched by God and that's what amazes me and it also the after 15 years being a Catholic 10 years doing this show when I hear the stories of these men women their love for Jesus Christ it it's humbling you know it makes you realize I I'm not all that smart you know and that what we realize is that we've got a long way every one of us to grow I mean a good example I'm not gonna get into this bit of time but you know Mother Teresa's recent book and all the people out that haven't clue what she's talking about and they completely misunderstand that but anyone that's truly walked the journey and wants to get closer and closer and closer to Jesus especially like you or I or others that are out there on TV to take a stand for the church you're gonna go through battle there's gonna be a spiritual battle you're gonna fight it just about the time you say something on TV or the next day you're gonna realize that you did it wrong yourself and Who am I to talk about it right I mean it's to me it's the humility the beauty of growing to appreciate the great Grace's that God gives us okay we've got another phone call and Marie from New Hampshire welcome to the journey home what's your question Emory well first of all thank you for having me on I do have a question for Marcus and I'd first like to say thank you for all that you do for even its cradle Catholics out here who have the opportunity to learn so much about apologetics just by watching your show what I'd like to know is as a Presbyterian minister were you aware at that time that the Catholic Church was the church that had canonized the Bible or the New Testament and if so how how do you reconcile that as a Protestant or is this something maybe you figured out as when you would to convert it to Catholicism because I'm just delving into that right now I'm reading a book and you know this this book was not handed to us out of the sky if they had to go through so many different books to come up with the Canon you know there was authority that was needed to do this so I guess I'm just kind of wondering at what point did you realize you know how did you deal with that thank you am i right that's a good question because you had mentioned earlier asked me a question about things that had really been an awakening moment and and I've got to say that when I discovered through my reading of church fathers and church history to realizing that the Canon of the Scriptures had not been finalized until the end of the fourth century by Catholic Bishops gathered in a conference first at carthesian in at Rome and Hippo that was an amazing piece of knowledge to me I'd never heard it was never mentioned in seminary I Steven studied one of my courses on the history of the early church it was never there and I basically believed that at a very early point in history that somehow the Holy Spirit brought the New Testament together and I went through battles but that was at some point it's almost like you mentioned the Cub Scouts it's almost like growing up in Cub Scouts you've got the Cub Scout manual but never crosses your mind maybe where'd this thing come from I just know that that's the authority of being a good Cub Scout right right you know except with iterations who who anointed this and said this is the Cubs game yeah I never didn't think this is the Word of God this is a sword of the Spirit but there's a lot of views on it but when I realize that two things first of all it emphasizes that anyone I mean really anyone that looks to the Bible as a foundation for their faith has to recognize that it came from the church they don't but they really ought to they want to say I'm independent show me in the Bible I'm gonna say but you're showing it in the Catholic book well let me ask you that question are there people out there who should know better or do know better but just don't go there or is it involve too much with their livelihood yeah I first of all I want to believe all of my good Protestant brothers and sisters who love Scripture especially the scholars who have a different perspective on that I give them the benefit of the doubt that they're being totally honest and sincere and that their understanding of the health Scripture that's what they really believe but yet even when I read the the Protestant books that describe how the New Testament came together the data will be there but it's like having a picture you know a connect-the-dots pictures that's supposed to look like a lion and they've connected the dots to look like an elephant it's like wait a second the date is there well they start to see where it's going in and well I don't think you know they've turned the page it's it's a bit like going to something with your presuppositions and that's what you believe deeply and so you make that data fit nice like that picture of Christ sometimes you see where if you first look at it you don't see then once you see it it's like every time you look at it you see it yeah but until you see it you don't see it you don't see it I and I also know that good scholars good pastors are very very busy people and they'd often don't have the the privilege and the time to read outside of their their little span of the books they like the authors are like the you know once in a while they scrape but but to get out there and take a step back from where they are often doesn't happen and usually in the life of a clergy convert often that is what happened they start reading outside of the norm and find themselves being drawn to the church because for the first time they they read a Catholic book now we've had several people you know email call up congratulate us for EWTN to find work and convert but you know are there some people out there who aren't always thrilled with the work you're doing as a rascal or religionist out there have you had of one- i feel back at time i know that you'd mentioned searching on the internet you found a few places where you are quite as popular as you are here right you know that Jesus said right all of us that if we want to follow him that we're going to have enemies he did when we did we do and you know a week doesn't go by when I don't receive some hate mail from about every single angle that there is I get letters from conservative Catholics that don't think I'm conservative from liberal Catholics I don't think I think I'm a fun a fun day I get it from liberal Protestants that think well you know if I really had known the honesty of Christian Protestantism I wouldn't have become Catholic fundamentalist Protestants that think I'm lying and that you know I'm I'm twisting the truth or that I've been confused by Satan no week doesn't go by when I get that and it's again but you know what Mother Teresa is told about her own in her life I'm not comparing myself to Mother Teresa don't get me wrong but I know a bit of the struggle that you go through that anyone goes through when they want to serve Jesus I know mother's gone through that you'll look at the battle she gets when she just wants to serve Jesus and that's been my desire my whole adult life I never anticipated that I'd be a defender of the Catholic faith I was the last thing or that have a television show doing it but when you have the the great privileges that you get to do that you take the struggles you know the devil would like to stop you from doing it would love to stop you wtn would love to stop our radio would love to do that and a lot of people think about in fact I've encouraged that you watching be praying for every single person you see on EWTN doing the program because you can know that if they're taking a stand for life for the church that they're gonna get resistance exactly and the author of how firm a foundation journeys home all available through the EWTN religious catalogue thank you so much for the wonderful work for 10 years on the air and 10 years of friendship great to have you and thank you for allowing me to spend some time with you Marcus Grodi this has been the journey home we hope you have enjoyed this program join us next week for another episode of the journey home when the host will once again be Marcus Grodi good night

Channel: EWTN

Views: 70,041

Keywords: Catholic, EWTN, Christian, television, Presbyterianism (Religion), Pastor

Id: gGLGGZVuahM

Length: 56min 32sec (3392 seconds)

Published: Thu Jan 29 2015