Fr. John Bartunek: A Former Atheist Who Became A Catholic Priest - The Journey Home (3-21-2005)

good evening and welcome to the journey home program it's a great pleasure to be with you my name is Marcus Grodi your host for this program in which I have the great privilege of introducing to you men and women who because of their great love for Jesus Christ were drawn home to the Catholic Church our guest this evening is father John Bar tunic he is the author of inside the passion and what a appropriate time to have this interview during Holy Week and of course it's exciting I don't know if any of you had a chance to see the kind of new recut version of The Passion I haven't yet but I'm looking forward to it my nine-year-old didn't see the first version so I'm going to have a chance to take him to see this newer version of the passion and father John is a very intimately connected with that but before we get to that father welcome to the journey home program thank you good to have you here before we begin with your journey and I want to make sure everyone gets a chance to look at this book because this is a great time during Holy Week to to read this before after seeing the movie or both and father both an both because after you see it then you can get pick up some things I missed in the process it's inside the passion published by Ascension Press and before we get to your journey father how inside the passion I mean why did you write this book is right inside the middle of the passion I was a stroke of Providence I was finishing up my theology studies in Rome now Gibson brought his crew to film the passion I made my way to the set through some friends and friends of friends and it became an intense two-year behind-the-scenes experience I was drawn into the project was involved in the conversations and the decisions and then in the editing room and the whole post-production I traveled with Mel during the promotional part of the whole project I got a chance to ask him questions nobody else asked and the more I found out about the movie the more I said Mel I went to mine I said we've got to write a book because it was fascinating to know what went into it it was unbelievable no changing the screenplay adding scenes actors making suggestions and to know why Mel made all those decisions you you understand why it's such a great work of art that's why we wrote inside the passion we didn't want to change the plot too much just don't do that cross thing Peter kind of tried to say that dude in the in reality right we don't want to get there well father in this program I always begin by taking a step back and ask you to give us a summary of your pre Catholic journey if you would pre catholic journey well I I come from a family I was born in Ohio grew up in Ohio my mother passed away when I was just a boy I have two sisters and my dad brought us up to be responsible hard-working a lot of sports and kind of normal healthy American kids but we didn't go to church we didn't we didn't have a Faith Formation of any kind and it was only when I was a teenager that I started to to kind of you know get into that my older sister had been training for the Olympics and she had a horrible accident where she blew out her knee and her whole you know all her dreams were were over and her coach helped her kind of recover from and get through that very difficult period turns out that her coach was a believing Christian an evangelical Christian strong faith in Christ in the Bible and he shared her his faith with her and and she became a Christian and that's how we called it you become a Christian and and then she invited me to go to the church with them and I am she actually she really bugged me about it yeah she really made me feel bad that I wasn't going to church and so she invited me and I when I started it was it was a Bible Church outside of Cleveland called the chapel great preaching and I was in eighth grade and I would go on Sunday and the first time I want to love the sermon they were just great preachers they would talk for 45 minutes and I couldn't get enough of it so I came back and then they invited me to join the youth choir and so I joined the youth choir and made some friends and you know the people were just so good they were good people that are normal they knew how to have a good time but they were striving to follow Christ and I remember during those choir practices and we would pray before and after right and the choir director would everyone would bother heads and of course at that point I didn't believe in God I didn't believe in Jesus I believe anything I liked hanging out with his people but I don't believe so I wouldn't bow my head I wouldn't pray they would all be bowing and I would just kind of you know not enter into that but after about seven eight months I had my own born-again experience we were on tour the choir was on tour we were singing you're driving with the choirs traveling like Wyatt and I wasn't a believer I wasn't a believer they know that they knew that because they knew I didn't pray you know I didn't pray with me I'll pray but that's kind of how God works you know he he associates us with with his friends and through them we become his friend so but I remember we were singing the finale a song called let there be light it was in a I don't know I think was a Presbyterian Church somewhere in Pennsylvania and it was a stained-glass window in the back of the church we were singing let there be light and from one moment to the next literally I became a believer it was a moment of grace and let there be light this is true Jesus is real he cares about me this is great I want to learn more and that was literally just a moment of grace and I started studying the Bible and then I get started getting into it a lot and spending a lot of times the church and and my father who has never been involved in organized religion I started getting a little worried as I'm getting in high school I'm spending more and more time with these Bible people and so he he told me at one point he says I don't trust those people I'd prefer you not to go to that church anymore and it was kind of my first crisis but I had been reading the Proverbs a chapter a day because there's thirty one so one for each day of the month you always know which chapter you're on you don't lose your place and over and over again in the book of Proverbs it says that a wise son heeds his father obeys his father so I decided to obey my father and I stopped going to the church I kept studying the Bible on my own reading and praying so for the last few years of high school it was just sports and academics and try to get into a good college and and my faith kind of went into the back burner and then I went to college and you know when you go to college you can do whatever you want right that's rebellion time so I was free to do whatever I want so every Sunday I went to church started going to there is an interesting form of rebellion yeah it was but it was a that's what I did I just kind of Church hopped I went to different church areas I looking for a good one that was one like the one back in Cleveland I eventually found a really good college group and started building some friendships there and a good Christian atmosphere with people who really wanted to make Christ their priority on campus I went to Stanford University which is fairly liberal in a lot of ways and it's not easy to you know follow your Christian faith in that environment as any college campus really but it was but it worked out pretty well and that's kind of a it was at college then when I started to I had my first link with the Catholics all right well let's back up a bit interesting couple things in your non-religious upbringing was it just never a discussion of your family never an issue or was there any anti religion or anti-catholic aspect of that yeah I just never came up it wasn't even on the radar screen had your father had any experience himself and no he moved away from it or just I found out later that he had very interesting after I was confirmed years later he came to my confirmation and he took us all out for pizza afterwards yeah I was like even though he wasn't you know I wasn't a believer and at one point even told me he's an atheist but then afterwards the day after we were having a beer together you know cooking hamburgers and I said so dad what do you think about all this stuff and he goes well it's kind of above my head you know but if that's where you need to go that's okay and then he paused and then he started remembering you know my dad used to have a crucifix over his bed as a crucifix he must have been Catholic I didn't know anything of his own you know his family background so what else turns out that my grandfather had owned a clothing factory in Cleveland Ohio had been a very devout practicing Catholic actually made all the Kasich's for the priests and the Jesuits in Cleveland and all that he was really involved in the Catholic community and my desk so my dad had started out in Catholic schools I think I haven't gotten all the details I think that my grandmother was from a Protestant background and so maybe maybe that was why I ventually he stopped you know kind of going we haven't really gone into the details but there was that going for me there's this kind of cash like remote operation for the priesthood I guess or for my own Catholic faith but we when when I was growing up just never came up you just never talked about it we were occupied with other stuff Virginia also touched on something which is significant and that is the struggle between when our parents hold a real strong position and we have certain loyalty to their position and the issue of conversion involves a challenge to the Hat itself I mean so you went through a bit of that my guesses are people watching they find themselves in that position what do I do yeah my father holds a position that's so different than where I am I feel like when I go on this spiritual journey that I'm spitting in his face I mean was there a little bit that struggle even yourself when you're going through that you said in high school you kind of backed away but when you went away to college right well there was a little bit of that in this period okay but you know and I always and I don't think there's an easy answer I think there's a formula you have to we have to love our parents we have to respect them we have to love them but our love for God is first so if God forbid there's a moment when we have to decide you know our Lord says he who you know loves father and mother and brother more than me you know he's not worthy of me so in the end if there is a conflict we have to be with God but we're that this conflict for me became a little more intense when I told my dad I was going to join the seminary okay well let's let's back a bit from there there so here you are you're in college involved with we involved like University or something really a res Batarian Church they had a college ministry by very active with that a very active and it really is unique when I think about you know you're rebelling from your parents by going to church we're definitely for me that was the opposite of me but it will you encourage with that with your particular group of Christians it was a great group okay a great group you know there were all very talented people and we all we met once a week during the week for a worship service on campus and then on Sunday at the church and then we had retreats a couple times a year and our friendships are really built around trying to follow Christ to be his true disciples on campus in that life in fact it makes me ask you this question for it says in Vatican 2 in the ecumenical document that we must not forget that whatever the holy spirit hasn't graced in the hearts of our separated brethren is for our spiritual renewal we can learn some things if you look back on those days of you in college what are some things you remember that are real challenge to us we should be doing that same stuff on college campuses absolutely you know there was no it was always what can we do to bring the message to our friends that was like a highest priority we were thinking about how can we live you know more like Christ but how can we spread how can we grow you know where were the needs of our peers and how can we communicate Christ to them that was our passion and and the other thing was the love for scripture I mean every all spent time every day on our knees reading the Bible and looking for God's will there that's something that a lot of Catholics who I've met since you know we don't have that love for Scripture and there's a great treasure there God works through his scriptures he really does of course within the guidance of the church and in the authority established by him but the love for scriptures but that idea that you know I don't have to be a priest or a nun or a monk in order to dedicate myself to spreading God's kingdom to inviting people to come to come to church and we rise invite people to come to our worship service government we were kind of concocting events where we could invite other people to get them in to convert them to bring them into Christ make them into Christians and that zeal is something I still have but I learned it there and I think we know we can all learn from that yeah and that's one of the reasons I believe that when I look at all the converts that we do within a journey on program that I work with in the coming home network and sometimes especially the clergy converts after they convert to the church they wondered well what about what was that God doing with me way back then you know I felt that he called me to seminary but now I'm a Catholic well what did that mean back then and I really believe that that the callings that we see way back then were in preparation for what we can do now as Catholics so all the training we got the experience and scripture study and evangelization is for what we can do now that we're in the church and inspired you as a priest absolutely for that enthusiasm you know for scripture in advantages you got back then yeah it all started that God doesn't waste anything no you know from your own life and he hasn't waste anything he's always thinking ahead all right so you're in college I'm in college all places what started open your heart to not at a Catholic College wasn't having so why there did you actually have your heart open to the cab there there's where God's sense of humor comes in I chose my major for history because when you study history you can study everything it includes math and science and art whatever you want and I chose as my advisor this great professor who happened to be a post atheist Jewish and well post atheist maybe I should explain that he considered that even the question of whether or not God existed was irrelevant also he wasn't post atheist in the positive direction he's moved atheist in the negative post atheism sense that you know and even the question of religious like not even relevant not even worth talking about okay so this was his and Jewish himself by culture and you know proud of that and he taught Jewish history he's a great professor and we hit it off really well in one class and I asked him to be my advisor so we started doing this independent study because I couldn't fit another course into my semester but I want to study about Buddhism and he was an expert in all world religions and spoke 12 languages and great great man great professor so we would meet once a week he would give me a book to read on Buddhism I would read it we would meet and he would ask me questions and so I was learning about Buddhism and at one point and these conversations about Buddhism always transformed into conversations about Christianity because I was involved in this process to know this is this Protestant church right and and he was post atheist so he was always trying to Deacon Verte me and I was always trying to convert him so we always started talking about you know Buddha and we ended up talking about why aren't you Christian why am i Christian and at one point he became exasperated with these discussions and he told me he said something that I I've never forgotten and it was the beginning of my conversion he said look if you have to be religious what you shouldn't but if you have to be there's only two real religions in the world that's coming from no man with I don't how many PhDs and language is really brilliant guy there's only two real religions in the world there's Judaism and there's Roman Catholicism and you're not Jewish told me it blew me away because up to that point the only exposure I'd had to Roman Catholicism was through the little pamphlets the Jack Chick pamphlets in the back of our churches anti-catholic antic I think which misrepresent what Catholicism is about so that was my idea so here's this incredibly intelligent well-informed educated man telling me that Catholicism is you know a better religion than the one I'm doing and it completely threw me for a loop the next year I went to Italy from our semester overseas and while I was in the plane I remember thinking to myself hey you know I think Italy is pretty Catholic I think the Pope lives there so maybe this would be a good chance for me to figure out what my professor meant about what was to get the good stuff from the Catholic religion and you know leave the bad stuff behind I was convinced that Catholics weren't even Christians because they have statues and all that because it from the influence of the even jelly yeah exactly as we were taught on the Catholics for it was an instrument of the devil the Catholic Church in order to distract Christians from the true faith that's what I had been taught so I know this kind of log version but it's interesting that so I got to Italy and I spent I ended up spending two trimesters in Florence Italy and then one trimester in Krakow Poland so my whole year was in Europe Wow Poland was still communist at the time actually was the year of the elections when solidarity the first free elections and that was the beginning of the end 1989 so 88 89 I spent in Europe I get to Florence and we get off the bus and Piazza Li Michelangelo looking over the valley the Arno Valley where the city no the city of Michelangelo and the Renaissance started there and it still looks like that so I get off the bus I look down in the city and it was like love at first sight it was so beautiful I felt like I was stepping into a fairytale now Cleveland just doesn't look like this and from that moment on I just couldn't get enough I spent all my free time kind of visiting sites that chapels the churches the museums drinking in the beauty of the art and of course you know that all that art is Catholic so the more I wanted to learn more and more about the art so I could get more and more into it and as I did I was anymore the Catholic faith my art-history professor saw what was going on started kind of directing me turns out she's a very faithful Catholic woman she recognized what we're going on and she started giving me indirect catechesis oh you need to go up to this church and see this painting and while you're there talk to father Tom you know and so she would introduce me to people and so I spent a year really just falling in love with the church through the cultural heritage through the beauty of the art and that opened my heart by the time I and similar thing happened in Poland seeing the testimony especially of the faith there of the people which was really giving them hope against the Communists by the time I got back for my senior year in college in my heart I was already Catholic I was defending the Pope and the Virgin Mary but I didn't know the doctrine but my heart was open and so I started meeting with the chaplain every couple weeks and just going through kind of a personalized instruction and he answered all my questions and about a year and a half after I graduated I was confirmed did how would your evangelical friends taking this they preferred their brows I couldn't figure it out they couldn't figure it out and I couldn't figure out why they couldn't figure it out it was funny our conversations oh look look at all this look there's so much more there's all the history there's the Saints there's the Pope there's there's the art isn't this great don't you want this too and you know they didn't and that's when I began to realize that it was God who was you know pulling me along it wasn't uh purely you know there's a grace involved in there because you know to overcome their biases and and most of my friends still haven't compared there's that dichotomy interesting thing about in here a little bit when you're when you've spent all your life in America in any place in America the Catholic Church is no older than the Protestant churches there's no sense of history the art is a as a cacophony of voices you know in any place in America unless you're maybe in Quebec where the Catholic Church goes way back or maybe you know San Agustin dodon Florida or some of the missions but other than that's almost all the same and so when you go to Europe you see this great division so the beauty of going there and seeing the art the cathedrals the places and wonderful just opens you up you go to go to England and you see a you see a cathedral that you know was Catholic and then stolen property because you can tell that there were places where statues used to be and they're not there I mean so you see that but the economy of that is yet the Europeans seem to have lost their faith though so much and so in a sense they they they become so used to that division but they take it for granted you know so there's in same case we become a blind to it over here in the States but over there they take it for granted sure you go to Florence and there's you know people have seen it all their life and it's no big deal so the freshness of what you discover then open and make a comment he we're gonna take a break in a moment but you mentioned twice and I want you to talk more about this now looking back the importance of grace in conversion often when this program people give the intellectual side the apologetics argument but you recognize it really it was just a touch of grace wasn't it really was you know they in order to get to the mind to the ideas for me and I and I've you've talked to so many conferences similar the heart has to be open I have to be willing to hear what the church says about itself I wasn't listening I thought no Catholics were like some very strange cult I didn't care what they had to say I just wanted them you know to save them from the Catholic Church but once I saw once I had that experience in Europe where God really touched my heart in this case through Beauty through Beauty informed and and inspired by faith by the Catholic faith then I was open to listen but that was a special grace it didn't happen to the there were a couple other Christians in the group because there's a mystery of grace same people ruling is the same thing it's not all come away with these effective efficacious great so yeah that's why these journeys are so personal every journey is personal and every listener you know who watches you wherever they are they're in a they're in a place that God knows where they are and you know he's leading them as a father personally knowing what each needs and for me it was the beauty of art that opened my heart but that was a grace from God which is going to connect with being involved with art insights fashion we're going to take a break one of the first things though I want to find out when we get back from the break is whatever got into your mind and put this collar on so we'll talk about that in a bit and those of you are watching I want to remind you that the book by farther bar tunic is available on ewtn religious catalogue that phone number case you're anxious for a book you want to read during the Holy Week is one eight hundred eight five four six three one six that's inside the passion by father John bar tunic we're back just a moment okay welcome back our guest this evening is father John Barr tunic he is the author of inside the passion which has a foreword by Mel Gibson alright so maybe we'll talk a little bit more about the whole experience though though you've been on bookmark right I have okay so you've also at other times have been able to talk about the book on the ewtn we've got a couple emails and a phone call waiting but before we get there the caller I mean then to me the interesting thing is that you had no influence of that and your family all that at what point did you disturb this call to the priesthood I it's a I still laugh at that myself because it happened it was simultaneous it wasn't I became Catholic and then after a little while as a Catholic I said hey why not be a priest it wasn't that way at all before I was Catholic while I was still in that year overseas I remember vividly the moment when the idea first came to my head and then it never left friend of mine and I we were in Krakow Poland right where does where the current Pope used to be the archbishop in the Cardinal and we we heard about this famous church the Church of the Ark which Carol vojta had fought to have built under the Communist era in the fitt day when he was a bishop there because that it was built in this new city called Nova hooter which means new city which was supposed to be the ideal communist city now in an ideal coming to see there's no place for a church but the pastor of the city said no we need a church and he fought against and he went back and forth diplomacy and politics and he got a church built and it was a symbol of hope for the people the Catholics are because the Pope Pope Paul the sixth contributed to it church communities from around the world contributed money to it or raw materials so it became the symbol of hope and resistance against communism so we heard about this church friend of mine and I and we said well let's go there for mass yeah it's like a cultural experience okay at this point I was already falling in love with the church because of my experience in Italy and the beauty of the Arts and so we went there for mass we got the early climbed into the balcony where no one would see us and it was strange because there were no pews in this church so it's a strange church with no pews we found out why as soon as the people started coming in because they kept coming in it was packed to the gills there's no room for pews in this church and the mirror you know amount of people who were in this church for mass shocked us and then when they soon as I got in the church everyone was silent so as they gathered it was pure silence preparing for this service for this mass that shocked us then the mass started we were a GOG we couldn't that you could feel the devotion you could feel the faith of these people you could touch it and at the consecration everyone hit their knees moment of silence utter reverence a whole different scope of religiosity that we had neither of us had seen before me as a believing Christian and the whole experience really kind of threw us for a loop and on the way home from that mass I was in the tram around noon thinking to myself that was amazing I was just standing there sunlight coming through the window the tram and this idea pops into my head John maybe you should be a priest it was it was that clear I looked around I laughed out loud and I was thinking to myself oh yeah my girlfriend's gonna get a kick out of that but from that moment the idea never left my head it was like a sunrise starts off you know you can barely tell when it begins but it never stops it just keeps going and going and going and - two and a half years later I entered the seminary so the point is that was before I was Catholic the whole process of becoming Catholics for me was like falling in love with the church it was just so beautiful and so wonderful in the history and had done so much and all the saints and I wanted to get in there I wanted to be on that team and and the more I learned the more I fell in love the more I wanted to give everything for the church and so when I was confirmed I'm after confirmation I went up to the priesthood my spiritual director during my conversion and I said hey can I join the seminary now I want to go now and he said no wait just did not confuse and so I moved to Chicago where I left my teaching career which I've started after after college and then I moved to Chicago began pursuing my original career idea which was to write and produce movies about historical subjects right and I said well maybe God doesn't want me to be a priest so I'll just do but it just kept burning and burning and getting the idea of being a priest I wanted to get everything I want to give everything that's the only explanation and that's what God put on my heart and when I met the Legionaries of Christ which is the order that I'm a member of now I visited and all those other guys who were there then one of the same thing we give it all we want to give it all you know we're ourselves out for Christ as fast as possible and so that's kind of how it happened I was a simultaneous thing we're going to got a phone call email before I go to them on one last question all those this might be a long question but you were involved as great great work of grace that God gave you to be involved with the passion the movie I mean like your conversion which is a touch of grace and all that this was an a graced moment since we happened to be there and all of that but talk a bit about the connection between your conversion your call to ministry priesthood and the writing of this book in this movie it is a real connections there you can see that this was all part of a God's plan for you absolutely absolutely it's uncanny you know how how creative God's providence is I met when they were filming in Rome I was finishing up my theology studies last year and a half more or less before ordination and I got involved with the film and of course my own background and because I mentioned my original career idea of writing in producing films I had always been involved in theatre I was even a professional actor for period and then here I was preparing for my priesthood and you know the priesthood is it's becoming another Christ and especially identifying with him in his sacrifice the mass the self offering and extending that sacrifice through our own ministry through the sacrament and through our preaching and through and so I was meditating on the passion and I we were preparing for my own ordination I get involved in the film and spend the time on the set and spend the time and being involved with that but then what happened soon the more I got involved the more I realized that wait a minute people are going to see this movie they're going to love it but it's like going to one of those beautiful cathedrals you go and you're inspired and you love it but if you have someone by your side who knows what the artist was thinking what the symbolism really is the different levels of meaning you get so much more out of it and I really felt that the idea came and said that's perfect you know that's exactly what got me into the church you know the understanding the the meaning behind the beauty of the art and here is a great in one of the first great works of Christian art of Catholic art at the beginning of a new millennium I'm involved I have a chance to I'm right beside melis making all the decisions I've got to write this book and so I talked to Belen that's kind of how it happened what a blessing yes well connected I was thinking you see describe the need of this you can sit down and read Dante's Inferno mm-hmm it's difficult unless you have for example Dorothy Sayers version which has the wonderful notes that help you understand every person in it how it rhymes the meaning of these words that we don't even use anymore then it comes alive and that's kind of what you want to do in this yeah to bring alive some of the things that maybe your average person won't appreciate in the movie help see some of the background okay let's go to our first caller Spencer from New York ll Spencer what's your question well thank you for taking my call my question is how is it possible for a movie to be a great work of visual art like the Sistine Chapel or the Last Supper is it really possible great question well I think the proof is in the pudding I think this this is when you see this movie movie is the film is an for it's a form because what is art or can be an art form you know what is our art is always an act of communication you have a vision you have an idea and religious art it's a spiritual idea to connect it with the truths of our faith and the artist is given this gift to be able to represent his special vision which is which is linked to his artistic sensibility which is a gift from God to communicate that vision to put it in some kind of form whether it's a song or a painting or a poem put it in sub so that someone else can see that and then share in that vision and be enriched by that vision and film is one of the most powerful art forms out there I'm convinced if Michelangelo were alive today you know one of two things he'd either be a head of an ad agency and making commercials because a lot of creativity goes into you on TV commercials in that guy or he'd be making movies because it involves everything it involves music it involves movement and an imaging and lighting every detail of this film and all the great films are consciously chosen just like every detail of a painting is consciously chosen in order to communicate a message it is an art form and when you find out what went into this film you really discover the many levels on which this particular film is a is a masterwork of art you know and rip behind this question and I'm not implying that Spencer sings but there are people out there who their ideologies immediately consider movies as evil mmm that whole genre right but when you look at the history of art I mean it at any stage in art history there were those that thought paintings or statues or the theatre or books the printing press that during different times they they would have the view that the medium itself was evil rather than recognizing that the medium is a gift it's how our conscience is the form conscience is use the mediums I mean there's lousy books should never be read their lousy plays that should never be seen there are lousy pieces of art that should never be seen that doesn't mean throw the whole thing out now there's no phrase you know the the classic phrase that says the abuse does not take away the use and that's exactly it excite Christ you know Christian Christians have been doing art for laug that's why I became a Catholic because I got exposed to this art and and film is a great art form we have to reclaim that exactly in fact John met John Paul just about three or four weeks ago received you know released an apostolic letter on the 40th anniversary of the the Vatican to document on the media yes and he in there he confirms the use of this technology for the spread of the gospel for what it was intended why God gave us television you know this is what we're supposed to be doing and you know Lord Jesus I pray that we're doing what is honorable to him in this work let's take this email dear this comes from Steve and Idaho he writes dear father between ik have you heard of any atheists being moved to faith in Christ after viewing the Passion of the Christ thank you Steve well not just with the viewing there was love you but they're actually atheists who were moved to faith in the making of the film it was amazing to see you talk to Mel everyone who worked on this film was changed for the better everyone I'll just give one example you know that's why it's so interesting to get become an expert in this film tonight into it the actor who played Judas an Italian guy who as a child had you know was born into a Catholic family but very early on left the faith wasn't practicing the faith at the beginning of the film he was a vocal atheist he made sure that everyone knew that he while he was doing this as an actor but he didn't believe in any of this stuff you know vocally and you know with the kind of a chip on his shoulder in a sense by the end of the filming after he saw the first cut version he asked one of the priests sunset for confession came back to the faith he baptized his children he sanctified his marriage praise God and that's one case of many hmm unbelievable to see God working through this phone you made a good point there on the side that audience may not realize that to a certain extent when you're in your doing a movie different scenes are recorded at different sequences right so the whole thing doesn't necessarily come together until that first viewing right absolutely absolutely it's the it's the director who is the mastermind behind the film he's the one who can see all the pieces it's like doing a mosaic you do each piece individually and then the one who the master designer brings them all together and you only see it all together at the end it's it's why being on the set sometimes it's kind of boring a little piece of zero there one outfit like oh you don't know how it goes and okay let's go with Carrie from Georgia hello Carrie what's your question Thank You Marcus for taking my question father what do you think people will learn in your book that will help them to better connect with the passion as they pray and meditate on that part of Christ's life thank you Carrie it's a good question I think one of the ideas of the book is to give first of all what was in the mind of the director so because when you when you know why the artist made his choices it helps you kind of uncover more levels of meaning in the different scenes every see everything is thought that's one level in the book as well however I try to give a little more historical theological and spiritual context behind those decisions no how do they fit in what's the significance you know questions for instance the difference between violence and suffering it's important to know what that difference is and why did our Lord choose to suffer to save us I include reflections on those issues and tie them into the film it's because the film really is a meditation and it's kind of inexhaustible in a sense as every great work of religious art is you can constantly go back to it or the different types of guilt for instance why Judas didn't repent I did you know why he he fell into despair but Peter didn't it comes across in the film but it's very subtle and the book gives you a chance to reflect to go a little deeper and really the people who've read I've been very encouraged by the reactions they've they've really been enhanced in their own reflection on the passion and on the film itself so I think that's the kind of thing you can get if you if you're able to to read the book one of my favorite scenes in the movie and I know this is for many people is that the scene where you see Mary you know weeping and then a little flashback to the balloon that the childhood me knows I was wondering when they were making that was it as powerful in the process or was it is just after later when you see it in the movie I mean I it's interesting it's kind of the I asked Mel about every scene in every detail even the scenes that didn't make it into the final version I talked about dozens book but that scene you know I asked mother he says oh he said that he knew it was going to tear your heart out no one else did no one else really did but he knew was going to tear your heart out and it's interesting that scene was the scene that that got them over the hump for the musical score doing the music for this movie was extremely difficult he had a number of composers working on it no one was getting it quite right they finally found John Debney to do some things and he was on the right track but it still wasn't where Mel wanted it to be John Debney faithful Catholic he started praying the rosary asking the Blessed Mother to help him he was working on this scene it wasn't working out Mel was considering going to another composer and he so he put three days prayed the Rosary next morning he woke up before his alarm clock and a melody was in his head with the words he started working on turns out it was musical form of a lullaby and that is the melody that was used in that scene and with his flash attack and if you watch when you watch it again you knows that the music is what really puts you over the edge it goes perfectly with the with the statement of Christ I hope I make all things new with the flashback it just adds and from that that was over the hump after that the rest of the music just kind of flowed and they were able to get it all done in time so that is a powerful scene and there's many different levels I kind of discussed that in oh great okay take his next email this comes from Ryan and Florida dear father bar tunic what why do the apostles call Mary Mother in the movie it wasn't in the Bible well it's kind of like why does everyone who who used to work it was in the network of mother Teresa of Calcutta you know everyone who was involved in the network volunteers never they all called her mother here at EWTN everyone who works here calls Mother Angelica mother Mary is the mother of the church she's the mother of Christ the church is the body of Christ and that's her role in the faithful and so you know for Catholics it makes perfect sense you call her mother because and we're part of the family we've become part of the family in Christ there's a lot of levels theologically that explore that you know mother of the church means also in a sense sharing and giving birth to the church sharing in Christ's own suffering sharing in the redemption in a special way all that comes out in the film and it's worth reflecting on those things and going a little deeper you know the kind of thing that we do in the book I was thinking there's another layer of that which I think connects with your background too and that is you see I came from an Evangelical Protestant adult experience my upbringing was Lutheran but later I was more evangelical very much Sola scriptura almost at the point of worship Scripture literally in terms of I was very committed to the literal interpretation of that so when someone would add a word it would bug me you don't go beyond scripture right all right and I think that's also what this author is getting at this idea of you know that so you take the Bible you put it to screen you end up with those that have done that and they're so truncated to only what is said there and I believe that's the beauty of our Catholic understanding of tradition and Scripture it frees us up to be able to recognize that there was a whole Jesus's life wasn't just one-dimensional two-dimensional it was three-dimensional as were all of these people that's why for example one of the the best books that describe the life of Christ in a very readable ways the greatest story ever told a great novel written by a Catholic they had the freedom to understand the bigger picture I mean you went through that same transition yourself of evangelicalism to Qatar oh yeah yes right that's why you know some of the people who complained about the use of mother in the film the Apostles calling Mary Mother none of them complain about the flashback the first flashback where we see Jesus building a table and Mary goes and they you know and they had that little exchange and that's not in the Bible right but nobody complains about it because it rings true right now so it's the same thing with the motherhood of Mary it's a natural thing someone a woman like that it was fulfilled her vocation she is the mother she is a mother and even for those others in and in you know at Pentecost she was there and they were gathered with I know her with Mary and she really kind of mothered the early church so those are all great points thank you Father take this next email or phone call Maria from Long Island hello Maria what's your question hi there my question was how has father's family been affected have they been converted or what has been Deus Ex about from my conversion I imagine right okay well you know I can't read their hearts completely but none of them have become Catholic my dad my dad and I have always maintained a really close friendship something I'm very grateful for you know we've had our differences on things but he's always been there's been faithful and I see him frequently you know I get to visit home and I see him and he started to pray he started to read some things that I've given him and so he's looking in he's retired now and he's reflecting on those issues he's told me a few times you know that at first he he resisted my entrance in the seminary strongly as a non-believer and uncut is what a waste he said what are worries and all your education and all the things you could do and you're gonna become a priest but now he sees that I'm happy he sees that I you know I got a lot to do I'm not sitting around twiddling my thumbs and he respects that he's been encouraged by that my two sisters are both very strong very faithful evangelical Christians and they're you know they're very opens well they're they're very happy with the fact that I'm happy that I they really believe I am where God has called me to be but neither one has has taken a step to to become a Catholic yeah pray for them please yeah and that's very common I mean again we're talking about grace yeah exactly yes to talk Makris take her another phone call Amy from Georgia what's your question is Marcus father how is ready to book about the passion impacted your faith journey like it has it drawn you closer to Christ absolutely you know it was another stroke of God's providence that I was ordained to the priesthood a few months before the passion came out when I was full time with Mel in post-production I took a break to go back to Rome to get ordained and I came back to Los Angeles so the whole time that I was working on the film that I was gathering information for the book that I was contemplating with Mel contemplating this work of art being drawn into it it completely that lent my first Lent and Easter as a priest was you know what a whole nother level and and a lot of it was because of this experience that I had had you know this is how God has spoken to me in so many ways through art and being involved in this work of art made a huge difference I went to the missions for Holy Week my first year as a priest and so I had a chance to celebrate all the liturgies was the only priest in the town you know this was down in Mexico and it was the only priest there hearing confessions all day celebrating all the liturgies of Holy Week preaching and and the experience of having worked on the film and spent all that time thinking about the passion writing about it contemplating it informed everything I did and I was so grateful for that all right thank you Father let's take a final break come back in a moment some more words for the journey home welcome back and our guest is father John Bar tunic and it's great to have you with us father and what a great privilege you had to be involved with that movie I was just thinking that certainly are some movies where when you see the inside out maybe even some old religious movies that it might not have led people to faith you know I don't want to nail any particular movie but I think about the ending of the Jesus Christ Superstar where they're all just kind of going back to the bus you know and they're looking back like what was this all about you know and I wonder we're here this is a movie where being involved with the inside was a strength to faith yeah not in the honesty direction that's the blessing of that I hope it's going to be any of a trend you know some other films and people will take courage and do the same kind of thing yeah well great Scot let's take one last email this comes from Dee no excuse me from Chris and from Delaware father what was we just wondering what was the animal that was in the seam of Judas at the end of his life it was a reason for ever having it there it was very pleasant scene there I remember correctly there so that may not have seen the movie what is she referring to it must be the rotting donkey carcass that's right next to Judas as he's making his final decision to descend into despair it's an incredible Cena I love the whole character study of Judas that Mel Gibson did I spent a lot of time on that in the book because I think it's very instructive that scene you know is at first you kind of think is just a cheap shot you know you see this rotting donkey donkey cars then you see a close-up of its mouth you see the teeth you know of the carcass and then you see maggots incubating and squirming and dropping out of sorry we're getting a little graphic here and that Judas turns around and sees it right and and that's when he he makes the final step to despair you see him start to weep right first of all I asked Mel about that and he said well it's an image of Hell where the worm dies not right and where there's clinchers of what they call gnashing of teeth and one of the close-ups you actually see the teeth of the donkey and then you see a close-up of Judas's faiths face in the center of the screen are his teeth almost you know opens mouth is open his teeth clenched in despair but the fascinating thing about that scene and this is the kind of thing I think that really adds here of experience of the movie the kind of thing that's in the book is how men get s'en was able to get that performance out of Judas you know this utter pathetic descent into despair they did it over in a take after take after take and wasn't getting it wasn't right got got duda guys trying to get finally he told Judas he said okay when you see that donkey that rotting donkey carcass with the maggots this is what you have to think to yourself my soul is in worse shape than that okay so that was the image right so they they get ray there's okay go you know and they run rolling and and and he he looks and he does the turn Judas is the turn sees the donkey and he just started weeping you know shaking and weeping it worked no cut we got it you know that was it that's how he got the performance out it's so fascinating to know kind of what went into those scenes thank you Father if in conclusion thought here if you're dressing any of our audience who may have been on a similar journey in terms of evangelical protestant evolved with the same kinds of groups that you were there in college with a deep commitment of Christ and evangelization speaking to them what what would you say to them would you like to say to them to encourage them to consider making the same journey home that you did well maybe three things real fast I would say first of all don't be afraid of the Catholic Church you have nothing to be afraid of no matter what someone might have told you or maybe what you even have experienced you're nothing to be afraid of we've been misinformed by those little tracks yeah does not have you afraid of the Catholic Church the second thing is well maybe that's just one more thing well no two more things exactly is it what I've found and what other converts that I know have found you didn't have to leave anything behind you get all the stuff you have already personal love for Christ love for the scriptures personal prayer all the meaning that that you know that God's revelation gives to our lives to history to our relationships it's you don't leave any of that behind but you get so much more there's so much more that God wants you to have wants you to have the sacraments you want you to be part of a bigger family you want you to have the example of the Saints wants you to tap into this 2,000 year history of holiness and of evangelization in a deeper way just once give you more stuff and finally I would say the really the only question is you know and I know the answer you are that you want to get closer to Christ well ask Christ study the Scriptures and look to say what did Christ have in mind for his church what is Jesus's idea of his church did he leave it up to personal decisions and about the scriptures or did he establish a community a new covenant kanuma community ask that question and ponder that question and Trust and don't be afraid thank you very much father could we have your blessing absolutely may Almighty God bless you the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit amen well thank you for joining us thank you home thank you for this book thank you for your you're now a desire to follow Christ in the church but to offer your life as a priest I mean what a great great witness that is thank you for your great work keep it up thank you very much I want to remind the audience again that's inside the passion by father John bar tunic ascension press forward by Mel Gibson it is available on ewtn religious catalogue that's eight hundred eight five four six three one six and I do ask that the Lord would greatly guide you during this holy week but a very powerful time for us if you haven't completely surrendered to quiet Christ this is the time and ask them how you want to guide you and your family to be deeper in Christ deeper involved with this church through the graces of the sacraments god bless you all it's always a pleasure to be with you in the journey home and I'll see you again next week

Channel: EWTN

Views: 1,005,214

Keywords: Catholic, EWTN, Christian, television, Atheism (Religion)

Id: EfFmCCyyLoo

Length: 51min 46sec (3106 seconds)

Published: Mon Feb 02 2015