Malcolm X | City Desk (1963)

good afternoon no matter what your point of view may be there is significant in the growth in Chicago and across the United States if not around the world the movement known as the black Muslims a movement which is popularly believed to preach a doctrine of hatred for the white race and the ultimate supremacy of the Negro race headquarters the Muslim movement is here in Chicago in the 5300 block of South Greenwood as leisure now is known as Elijah Muhammad he's in residence here the most active person in the spreading of the Black Muslim movement is Elijah Muhammad's second-in-command who calls himself Malcolm X Malcolm X is our guest today on city desk across the desk our panelists this week our NBC newsmen Charles McEwen Floyd Kalber and Len O'Connor and mr. X may I begin by asking you if you will please outline us for us the platform and policies of the Muslim organization well the platform that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad our religious leader stands upon is the platform of complete freedom justice and equality for the 20 million black people that our so-called Negroes here in America and he teaches us that because of this seriousness of the condition that our people now find themselves in that is absolutely impossible to solve our problems with means other than religion and he teaches us that the religion of Islam is the only religion that will instill within our people the incentive to stand on our own feet and instead of trying to force ourselves upon whites or force ourselves into the white society or blame the white men for our predicament and constantly beg him for what he has he says that the only way that we can solve our problem is to unite together among ourselves among our own kind clean ourselves up rid ourselves of the evils that we've become addicted to here in this society and try and solve our problem ourselves and I referred to the popular belief the Muslims preach a hatred for the white race who do not subscribe to this no I've never heard the Honorable Elijah Muhammad teach or preach hatred for anyone he preaches hatred against evil against drunkenness against dope addiction against poverty and against having to beg for the things that a man is supposed to have but I've never had heard him teach us or any of his followers hatred toward any human being do you think that some of his followers father then have misinterpreted the word that they've heard and follow a practice of hatred for the white I don't think that any Muslim practises hatred toward anyone we have businesses around the country that are patronized by whites and we have many businesses here in Chicago and our customers are white as well as our own kind and a white person can go into any of these places of business and he'll have to admit that he is treated with more respect and he finds more dignity there than he will find among the so-called Negroes who profess to be teaching love for everyone you've had twice you've referred to to the Negroes the so-called Negroes you find some fault with this - yes mr. Muhammad teaches us that Negro is a term that was applied to us during slavery by the slave master and to write it right today it's a term that is used only to point out the descendant of slaves it's never used for black people period Africans can come to this country they aren't called Negroes and if they are called Negroes they resent it so if Negro men black as we've been taught it would be a term that would be applicable to or pliable to everyone but he says that it is something that means our slave or something who is it means something that has been left out of society politically economically educationally and otherwise you don't think of it as an anthropological tournament definitely it's not an anthropological term it's a slave term and it was a term that was invented in America and was used by the slave makers slave traders and slave masters and attached to the property or the channel or merchandise that our people represented in that particular day mr. O'Connor what is your real name Malcolm Malcolm X is that your legal name as far as I'm concerned it's my legal name have you been to court to established I don't know I didn't have to go to court to be called Murphy or Jones or Smith excuse me in franching you this way that's not a Chinese person were to say his name was Patrick Murphy you would look at him like he's insane because Murphy is an Irish name a European name or the name that has a Caucasian or white background and a yellow purse Chinese is a yellow man and he has nothing to do and no connection whatsoever with the name Murphy and if it doesn't look proper for a person who is yellow or Chinese to be walking around named Murphy or Jones or Johnson or bunch or Powell I think it would be just as improper for a black person or the so-called Negro in this country is we're taught by the Honorable Elijah Muhammad to walk around with these names and therefore he teaches us that during slavery the same slave master who owned us put his last name on us to denote that we were his property so that when you see a Negro today whose name Johnson if you go back in his history you'll find that he was once his grandfather or one of his forefathers was owned by a white man who was named Johnson his name is Bunch his grandfather was owned by Allen point there was a name Bunch would you mind telling me what your father's last name was my father didn't know his last name my father got his last name from his grandfather and his grandfather got from his grandfather who got it from the slave master the real names of our people were destroyed was there any line any point in the genealogy of your family when you did have to use the last name and if so what was the last name of my forefathers it was taken from them when they were brought to America and made slaves and then the name of the slave master was given which we refuse we rejected that name today you make you mean you won't even tell me what your father's supposed last name was or gifted last name one I never acknowledged it whatsoever let me ask you about the status of Elijah Muhammad first of all is he ill I spoke to him today he's in better health than he has been he's suffering from asthmatic bronchitis is that why he didn't attend your the only reason that he didn't attend was his ill condition and the weather here especially on that particular day was of such nature that it wouldn't have been almost insane for him to come well now did you hold that meeting last Tuesday because it coincided with the general election the primary election I think if you study the history of mr. Muhammad's work and religious work in this country he's been we've had our convention on February the 26th every year for I think the past 33 years well now well while you don't care to discussed your former name or the name that the slave master gave to your antecedents it is a matter of record that Muhammad's last name was Poole Elijah Poole no that's the name that his slave master gave to his grandfather or great-grandfather but that's not his name well his mother and father thought when they called him Elijah Pooler that was his name they didn't know any better boys they didn't know any better or not they thought that was his name yes sir but Sir what I'm trying to find out is when did he ceased to be Elijah Poole and get to be Elijah Moore him in 1931 I think it was in Detroit he was taught the true history of our people and made aware at that time that he was wearing an English name and by not being an Englishman he looked out of place and his teacher gave him the name that he's wearing today Muhammad Elijah Muhammad all right now when did he become what he purports to be in your literature the son of Allah I've never heard the Honorable Elijah Muhammad referred to as the son the father never heard him referred to where's the prophet of Allah what do you refer to messenger of allah all right The Messenger of Allah and I appreciate the correction yes um he says that a prophet is somebody who predicts the future and he's not predicting the future whereas a messenger is someone who carries a message that has been given to him by one who authors that message well now who gave him the message and to whom is it supposed to be delivered master WF Muhammad the one who taught him is the author of the message he gave it to the Honorable Elijah Muhammad which makes him the messenger and he's to deliver that message of truth and righteousness to the 20 million American so-called Negroes which means he's to teach us the truth which will awaken us and then show us how to live a life of righteousness which will automatically qualify us for recognition as human beings by all other righteous human beings here on this earth well now one other question with reference to what mr. Hurlbert asked you a little bit ago you took a very moderate position of wanting independence without having any hatred for the for the whites is that is do I understand that correctly hatred is not involved in it whatsoever well I recall in a recent plane crash I mean two or three years ago or less than that a charter flight on Air France in which a group of people from Atlanta Georgia were as they say in the business as they took off from from our Liefeld and you were quoted at that time as expressing great gratification that this tragedy had occurred do you recall that I haven't called it the press miss interpreted it and misrepresented it what did you say said that it was made at a Muslim meeting it wasn't it was made at a rally of Negroes Baptist Methodist Catholic and otherwise in Los Angeles who were rallying to protest the brutal shooting of seven unarmed Negroes and what did you say heavily armed white policemen in the city of Los Angeles and because we are a people who have been taught by the Honorable Elijah Muhammad to never carry weapons of any kind but to get on God's side and rely on God to find our battles for us at the time that these brothers were shot down so brutally I pointed out at the funeral of the brother who died that God would step in and take a hand in giving us some form of justice for the brutal killing of our brother and when the plane crashed in France I pointed out to the crowd at this rally that this was an act of God showing his wrath or complete resentment over the brutal form of injustice that had been inflicted upon our poor unarmed brothers will you say at that time dr. Billy Graham was in a crusade in Chicago and the press your papers here in this city quoted Billy Graham of also saying that that plane crash was an act of God and if you take time to check the newspapers I think that you'll find that this is correct but no one thought that Billy Graham was so wrong when he attributed the crash of this plane to his guy but when we say that it come from our God then we looked upon his being you know outraged I know but you took the position that this was a matter of satisfaction to you for injustice done against you and I think that that's the trifle severe we did not think that it was a coincidence that a hundred and twenty of the whites on this plane came from the state of Georgia a state that has the worst record in history in the history of America for the mistreatment of black people in this country worse than Mississippi well they maybe are a little less hipper Mississippi is a little less hypocritical today than Georgia but both of them are still practicing the same thing now the the whites in Georgia of bight Negroes with a smile whereas they used to bite them with a growl but they're still being bitten and we don't think that it is any worse to be bitten with a smile than it is to be bitten with a growl mr. Calvert the subject of Mississippi what is your organization's position of what happened in Mississippi what such as the james Meredith incident and the enrollment of him in the university well the Honorable Elijah Muhammad wants justice for every one of the 20 million so-called Negroes and to just take one Negro and stick him in in college with uh with the aid of the six I think sixth uh 15,000 troops and at a cost of six thousand dollars there's a disgrace it's a waste of taxpayers money it's a forest is hypocrisy because if it's right for one Negro to be forced into that university then every Negro in the state of Mississippi who is qualified has the same right to go to that University and if the government is not ready and willing to enforce the right of every Negro in the state of Mississippi then in my opinion sir it's only hypocrisy to pretend that they are for justice by pushing one Negro in and blowing it up all over the world to make it look like they're solving the problem when millions of black people in that state are still going to segregated schools and getting an inferior education if your organization encourage members to attempt to enter schools at a bellona's all-white law the Honorable Elijah Muhammad doesn't discourage us from attaining white schools but he does say that it is better for us to go to our own schools and after we have a thorough knowledge of ourselves of our own kind and racial dignity has been instilled within us then we can go to any one school and will still retain our grace pride our racial dignity and we will be able to avoid the subservient inferiority complex that most Negroes have or our invaders instilled within most Negroes who receive this sort of integrated education well you have a private school operation operating here in Chicago at least and possibly elsewhere and it's been a subject of controversy lately what is the acceptance of people who come out of your private schools into schools of higher learning yes we have many students who have graduated from the university of islam on 54th and green work that are now attending other schools in fact just as an example one of mr. Muhammad's sons never attended any school in his life but the University of Islam he later attended DePaul University he also attended the University of Chicago and at present he's attending he's attending al-azhar university in Cairo one of the oldest Muslim schools in the world and his daughter-in-law so who went to school here is attending in the University of Cairo and then we have other students who have graduated that are attending other colleges and universities in this country and in our school we never have any delinquency problems we never have any dropouts we never have any disrespect for authority or disrespect for for for parents we don't have any kind of juvenile delinquency all of the things that the regular school system is complaining about the critics and the most severe critics of mr. Mohammed have to it has to admit that we don't we aren't playing with those same problems in our own school I have listened to your leader at least on one occasion and convention here it was two years ago and that time he advocated the separate state proposition of giving the what you call the so-called American Negro a separate state in which to live to make their own way would you explain that philosophy pleased and have you had any support for it from anybody an official range your first question first to my understanding what mr. Muhammad has said is that he wants freedom justice and equality for the black people here in America but you agree they don't have if they did you wouldn't have a race problem and he says if America cannot bring about freedom justice and equality for our people in this country then America should allow us to leave if we can't get along together we should allow we should be allowed to depart and go someplace where we can set up housekeeping for ourselves then he says if America doesn't want us to go back home among our own people and at the same time they want to keep us here since we can't stay here and get along together in peace he says what America should do is separate part of the country and give us a section where we can live and give us everything we need to get our particular section functioning independently support us for 25 years until we are able to function independently in a society of our own and in this way the problem will be solved mr. McEwan you say there's no juvenile delinquency what is the discipline that well number one I one of the first things that mr. Muhammad teaches is you have to set an example if you want others to do right and he teaches the grown-up Muslims to live a highly disciplined in a highly moral life of high morals and by the parents displaying the highest of morals in front of the children at all times automatically this that's a pattern or an example for the children and in our schools our children the emphasis is placed upon the recognition of Authority and by the children recognizing Authority and respecting Authority it's easy for anyone who is in authority to teach the child and discipline the child and make the child aware of the importance of living a life in accord with with the law even after he grows up how did you happen to join the Muslim I was in prison I was a very wayward criminal backward illiterate uneducated and whatever other negative characteristics you can think of type of person until I heard the teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and because of the impact that it had upon me and giving me a desire to reform myself and rehabilitate myself for the first time in my life and also being able to see the effect that it had upon others this is what made me accept it and plus prior to hearing what he teaches I had no interest whatsoever in anything serious or any kind of educational pursuits and I noticed that after being exposed to the religious teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad immediately it instilled within me such a high degree of racial pride and racial dignity that I wanted to be somebody and I realized that I couldn't be anybody by begging the white man for what he had but that I had to get out here and try and do something for myself or make something out of myself what has been the growth of the Muslim movement there are conflicting reports as to how many Muslims there are in the United States can you tell us well most critics say that the dissatisfied follow Muhammad that the unemployed in the oppressed Paula Muhammad and I think you'll agree the sociologist the economist and other experts say that the masses of black people are dissatisfied unemployed oppressed and fed up so that he actually gets his support at the mass level but now you have other Negroes at the class level who pretend not to go for him because usually their job has been given to them by the white man they are they have positions to which they have been appointed and they think that the only way that they can protect their job is by pretending in the front in front of the white man that they don't go for mr. Mohammed either but how many Muslims it always say there are in the numbers I couldn't say I've never heard him say and he's the only one who would know five hundred thousand I couldn't say I think that anyone who does say is not in a position to know and anyone who knows wouldn't say what do you think that the Urban League in the n-double-a-cp have accomplished for your people what's your their own way they have been doing their best to bring about freedom justice and equality and human dignity for the black people in this country but today you have such a an intense degree of dissatisfaction and impatience existing among our people at the mass level that it is almost impossible to come to them where the program is going to take another hundred years to solve their problem and they still be satisfied to wait so that they have their Urban League and n-double-a-cp has done a good job within their understanding but today it takes more immediate solutions and the solution that the Honorable Elijah Muhammad has is immediate it's not perfect they're not moving fast enough well they're moving as fast as they can but that's not fast enough for the masses of black people if a person is sitting on a warm stove and you get ready to let him up no matter how slow you are he has patience because it's only one but the masses of black people who are sitting on a hot stove they're impatient and no matter how fast you say progress is being made toward letting them up that progress is not fast enough for them well the n-double-a-cp of the Urban League have both been critical of them of the Muslim the n-double-a-cp and Urban League had been maneuvered into criticizing us against their own will usually the divide-and-conquer tactics have always been used by the oppressor to keep the oppressed oppressed and the n-double a-c-p has been used against the Muslims efforts have been made to use us against them but the Honorable Elijah Muhammad says he'll work with the n-double-a-cp the Urban League in any other Negro organization that wants to uplift the black man as long as it doesn't conflict with our religious principle I remember once when Elijah was quoted as having said that the Urban League in the n-double-a-cp sold out to the white man has he ever made that started to my knowledge I don't think that he has said that they sold out to the white man I've heard him say that his feeling there the n-double-a-cp has been in existence for 54 years and from India they elect a new national president every year and they have never elected a black man to sit in that capacity Arthur Spingarn has been president of the n-double a-c-p for 24 years and so in this sense it means that either they're practicing discrim the same discrimination that they accused the white man of practicing they're practicing it themselves or else they're not qualifying other Negroes in that organization for positions of leadership this is our only criticism I personally feel that they have sold out to the white man those argument you personally feel that those organizations have sold out to the white man I don't think that they would knowing allow themselves to be used or misused against their own people so if they are failing to do the job that they're people that our people are expecting them probably is just do lack of understanding but today their understanding is increasing and you'll find that they're developing a better ability to work with all different factions for the betterment of our people Malcolm how do you yourself feel about the white man I believe that the white man has done a great injustice to the black man in this country by having kidnapped our people and and brought us here then down to the level that were on today and today instead of approaching the factors that their original mistake has created instead of approaching these factors objectively and realistically the greatest sin that they're doing now is trying to bite us trying to pretend that they never committed a crime that they never did any wrong and when the Honorable Elijah Muhammad points out the end justices that our people are suffering this they they they make that same worse by accusing him of teaching hate or by accusing him of black supremacy or by accusing him of advocating violence simply because he is pointing out the real record we have a little time left you don't have to hurry something like now I don't you were born in Omaha is that right yes sir and you left your family left to Omaha when you were about one-year-old I imagine about a year old and why did they leave well to my understanding the Ku Klux Klan burned down one of their homes in in in Omaha there's a lot of this made your family feel very unhappy I'm sure well insecure if not unhappy so you must have a somewhat prejudiced point of view a personally prejudiced point of view in other words you cannot look at this in a broad academic sort of way really I think that's incorrect because despite the fact that that happened in Omaha and then when we moved to Lansing Michigan our home was burned down again in fact my father was killed by the Ku Klux Klan and despite all of that no one was more thoroughly integrated with White's than I no one has lived more so in the Society of whites than I and it was only until I became a Muslim that I ceased living in the society so it's thoroughly integrated with the vice-president I do have white people in your family background definitely most Negroes in this country have White's in their family background now how are you going to differentiate between the white the sinew and the Negro Bloods and you don't mind my using no I use it interchangeably I know you do that well I use it with it fits the purpose to use it but I use it against my will but you used it voluntarily and describing instant in Los Angeles so I use it against my will I guess the teachings were thoroughly inculcated no but when I say to you that the cops in Los Angeles shot down seven unarmed Negroes every Negro in the audience knows what I'm talking about but when I say that he shot that they shot seven Muslims then a lot of the Negroes don't realize because you say you use the term colored people you said I don't think on this program is not colored I think so black people understand you well we can use black and let me get back to another point that you made you said that you go back home now what do you mean by back home I've only heard the Honorable Elijah Muhammad say back among our own people from way back home you don't mind my right back home but by that you mean back into the roots of Islam or do you mean back to Africa back home back home he means back into our original civilization and if you study history the Islamic culture existed in West Africa but your family didn't come from an Islamic background originally did it I mean you came from from the proud tribes of Africa which I think you'll find that one of a that Islam the Islamic culture that's really there is only existed widely in Africa Central Africa we have met many people in there mr. O'Connor with regard to that tragedy out there in Los Angeles I myself refer to it when it happened as the tragic police action so I am NOT totally biased thank you coming from Mohammed speaks which is the publication of your your cult or your religion Elijah pool Elijah Muhammad referred to the policeman out there the white policeman has Devils he said there is no justice here for us black people there is no future for us nor our children in civilized America doesn't that imply that you're going to get out or that's his wish that you get out if he referred to those policemen out there as Devils who had who were heavily armed and knew that they meant the Negroes whom they were shooting down in cold blood were not heavily armed I don't think that those policemen themselves were denied at their Devils nor with any Negro who witnessed such a deed deny that they are devil about the other part of it there's no justice here for us black people there is no future for us nor our children and civilized American I didn't make that up peak he said it in his own and he's correct in what he says sir well what does it mean is gonna get out it means the same thing that attorney General Robert Kennedy's a means when he says that the number one domestic problem in America is the race problem that it is almost impossible to solve it it's almost impossible to give justice to Negroes one brief thing further I read also and Muhammed speaks a quotation that that Elijah Muhammad is the only person on earth who is the personal it was on personal speaking terms with God do you believe that definitely you do that we're gonna have to leave it at that and Malcolm I'm sure he's done a good job in rehabilitating you as a pleasure to have you on and said he does I'm in Chicago for the next three weeks at the local mosque at 54th and Greenwood for a special lecture series

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Length: 28min 37sec (1717 seconds)

Published: Mon May 21 2018

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[u/justeandj]

I don't think I've ever been so glued to the TV as I was watching this. Absolutely worth it. Thank you for sharing.