London Gangster Reveals The Mob Life in Britain

I can read you quicker than you would want me to I cannot blame Scarface or a computer game or a rapper for my behavior you do actually get natural leaders and natural soldiers and luckily I am a leader yeah if you ever get a rescued while on cocaine the hardest thing in the world to do is go no coming no I'm not saying nothing okay a little bit of it I have a very very scary phone book mate yeah it's not what I can do anymore is it so if you are Camilla so all of a sudden I had a 900 strong army the Moore family should get for being naughty the less know you can be now my biggest threat to them is I'm making crime look glamorous do you think you are though no I'm not I'm not leveraging crime I'm glamorizing Dave [Music] so today we have a special guest with us he is he is a different form of a bill collector he is a collector some of you may be bill collectors his form of collecting was in a different way in UK he is known as the monarch of the underworld the yellow pages of the underworld in UK that's none other than David Courtney how are you sir yes it's good to meet you good you have a very interesting resume so you and I'm afraid off of its truth yes see that's what makes it interesting fact that happen if 10% of it is true it's interesting let alone half of it so when I read up on you you know you see the word celebrity gangster you were a you work security with the Kray twins Kray twins the movie in America you know with Tom Hardy a thing was called legend as what it was called and it sure does some of the movies about him real neat movie you've associated with some interesting people in your life how did you become a gangster like how did you get into this world yourself I don't really think you can blame your environment of how you turn no you can't say there was no green areas for me to play on and the classrooms were to paint so I ended up robbing a post office you can set it you're born Louie you're born you're saying born oh yeah I do say that oh you believe that true you don't think it's a solution that are god-fearing cubben Scout leaders so there's no reason that's all I need uprightness I was born with the genes they're just in me I cannot blame Scarface or a computer game or a rapper for my behavior yeah it might influence me if I'm skint I can't blame you on that because you're a bull noe and the people that are not born or he that try to be no he they're the one who ended up being snitches and cowards and doing the wrong thing on the day and making me deal with the police and that word celebrity gangster there's a media word yeah the two words don't go in every gangster yeah it's like saying police intelligence yeah the two words just don't go yeah yeah so but but I read something about a nine years old yet something that inspired you know something happened that in Spidey at around nine years old and what was it what took plate was there any specific even I can't actually get one event I'm afraid AK ever cocky this might sound you do actually get natural leaders and natural soldiers yeah I agree with that you gotta know what you are as quick as possible and so not to be put into the wrong category because each one is exactly the same importance as the other one and luckily I am a leader at very early age I realized that the art of delegation is as important as the days of the best fighter was the one in charge and affirm that is very end of fold as a bit counter you know coming a barbarian and they're always the best fighter on the firm in always the most intelligent maybe is a little bit not the sharpest pencil in amongst yeah but you know and horses for courses and I was very good at delegating who what where and what age at what into dude the jus your bone with that you can't learn that but did you are you the older brother or you Don the elder brother yet so I'm not massive family one brother one sister one brother one sister a lot of cousins did you have but there but I was a definitely the black sheep of the family my biggest weapon that I have I can read you quicker than you would want me to sorry how could read you quicker than you would want me to and humor is of maximum and published to me yeah laughing keeping it funny keeping it on a good bounce in every single thing I do whoever you're sitting outside a house went to show someone you can either be sitting there [ __ ] yourself or just trying to keep it good humoured yeah I never know what problem is gonna knock on my door 24 hours a day and as long as I'm taking over in a good happy bouncy mood all day long I handle all them problems better I'm gonna good mood then I am if I'm walking around with yeah I don't do that yeah most of the people are no do but I don't do that you don't Estes it's not my feet really yeah no no I don't do that I'm not saying I haven't had a puff I don't have a good drink now man yep I've watched it turns heroes of mine into [ __ ] I don't do that and I don't ever want to be in the position where because of what I tell people to do gets done that I ever have to make a decision one I'm wired yeah and I went we're just point out in him and I didn't really mean that just because I was flying god I don't do that what you see is what you get yeah that is very unenviable way to live your February 17 59 is oh yeah say it so I watch to see connect the dots to see where does your wiring come from so obviously style your parents because your parents are you said god-fearing yeah you know good people doing what they're doing and you learn at an early age so you had the delegation part so when would you say was the first time you committed your first crime we were like you know what I enjoy doing it was there something that you boys and I never look to X crime okay I was enjoying myself I was being center of attraction I didn't look here's always been extra brave or I was the courageous one yeah I didn't realize I was gifted having a fight until quite late on in my life I'll never at sea I hang around before the big kids or the naughty kids for in full anal 15 my friends were 28 so I never had to have a fight they were all doing it for me how old was your first fight what hold we win oh god now you have your fights at school and all that but that's not worth talking about by the first real real fight look Oh first real better I had wisdom with a builder Monday in a pub who had to bail on with the hammer and the screwdrivers and you just know the scariest thing in the world you know I mean and it was the first real man-to-man back to a walk and remember a pin you have now you're famous were saying you you can outfight and outdance almost any man you've said that yes pochi I'll use a knuckle duster uh-huh yeah that's my choice windows I truly believe in this if you are someone has to carry a weapon for your day job a prison officer a dorm and a debt collector a soldier where you must choose the weapon that you are prepared to do the prison sentence for all right what I mean by that is if you choose to carry a gun or a knife mm-hmm forget the time you're gonna pull the knife and save your life what will most probably happen is you'll be driving down a road hit someone up the ass in his new car he would jump out of his car drag you out stop banging you a new wood if you had it in your pocket go and get 20 years which you dented his bumper yeah if he was walking around Tesco's and you trod on his foot and he just had a corn operation and he tell me to stop beating you up and you had it in your pocket you would go and get 20 years because you also don't carry the weapon you don't want to do the prison sentence for a knuckle duster you will go bang knock him out and that's it you ain't gonna die is Geor go over there you might get 18 months and I don't mind getting AE months every time I have a fire but I'm not gonna risk getting life imprisonment every time I have to fight somebody you'd they're calculating wherever when a kohli choose the weapon you don't mind doing the bird for ya and I don't mind getting ie much you know I see if I get cold but because I'll wrap mine up in plaster and no one ever saw it already on they just thought I was the best puncher in the world you know knocking about all over the place here and and I'll run a big team of Dorman's in London just before the rave seen it so I had about 800 flat nosed bald-headed thugs working for me so in and I was like a job centre in the week so on a Friday Saturday and Sunday night they were doorman but all week they just say oh I'm in the gym so if anyone won't need somebody beat up their car repossessed some squatters thrown out whatever yeah you wouldn't you might not know to ask but you know the doorman of the nightclub you know the eight guys all standing here they will either do it or they will know where to point to get it done so all of a sudden I had a nine hundred strong army reporting to you this is important to me yeah and then the rave scene came in you know that's not saying I mean what you're is that what you're is a rave scene in late 80s yeah yeah without you sure yeah yeah well you learn in hundred nine hundred and fifty paranoia's of wages as a doorman yeah now they were selling these easy in the nightclub at twenty pounds each and it was the doorman that controlled there yeah the doorman controlled you can come in and sell them all right I'll get X amount of parents for letting you do that and I will do my job and throw everyone else out there selling them so I look like I'm doing my job the police rapid with me I'm frying them out every my bum leaving you in there you give me a thousand pound an iron to sell them and that way you've got no other competition in there so and then all of a sudden you're owning four or five grand a night so now you're it's worth getting involved in a drug war for when it's people turning up going I want to be the doorman aim of guns we want to run this club it's worth fighting for because you're now going on with a thousand pound are not wages yes so you're involved in drug wars then it all goes is a slow slow process but it turned into that way and then my dog my army of debt collectors car repossession French Quarter turned into an army in new authorities eyes of drug dealing English gangsters which I suppose we molded into but didn't set out to be John I mean yeah no one said to me I want to go and be a G yeah nobody does want to be a G but sometimes like you said something earlier so I mean that's that's late 80s Early 90s let's go back a little bit so let me ask you say I'm in high school with you okay we were 16 17 years old who were you in high school I was the funniest guy knows loves to cook gesture and I have handled the cook gesture thing in the big gangster situations I've been in in life-threatening situations I've been in when I've been in the Old Bailey at the Old Bailey I went dressed as a cook jester with the bells and the policemen and in the cool open if went up in in prison afraid to cook Chester in prison it's kept me out of trouble I have an extra hanging on the blacks the whites the Muslims the numbers looms the hard nuts to couch the guy I was a cool Jeff knows everyone here giggly jokey la fée when it comes down to being serious there now can be as serious as anyone else if not I have a very very scary phone book mate yeah it's not what I can do anymore is it it's not that so if you all can [ __ ] your makeup so does that go all the way back to Dennis wall or yes is what you can call up that's what makes you important that'll make you scary if I can call on the Russians the Albanians the Somalians the Chinese the yard IDO I [ __ ] call them up I don't have to be a good fire I'll just get you on my telephone and say choose a weapon let me get to something if you let me get to my phone I don't care what situation I mean what country I mean if you let me get to my phone I came to you so choice of weapon has changed to fondness telephone 100 percent 100 percent Wow let me get there and I'll beat you Wow like you said you have to be born with it which is great but you said something earlier you said I never touched a blow I never touched a coke coke about a puff I've done that but Khao County's a weirdest joke in a world from nature actually even understand alright because any any drug you take if you take acid you know you better be a message if we smoke a little weed you know even a bit weed if you've had a bit of an fit you know you better be a vamp yeah if you have a bit of cocaine and you go or I do say I'm all right nothing wrong me I'm cool right don't want to be cool with off quite 50 pound for something I want to feel something but cocaine makes you think you're alright you feel like you can shake everything in the room but you can't get a hard-on it makes you choke like a complete yeah if you ever get arrested while on cocaine the hardest thing in the world to do is go no coming no I'm not saying nothing okay a little bit yeah what is that what is that and they're walking around saying there's nothing wrong with me noni taste cocaine and you ever say to him how do you feel now go I'm at my now they don't say no that's all right I don't want a joke that makes me be alright I took it for something interesting and it's the only drug in the world that you give it away you don't go up to the counter of by a point along where is that someone if you want half of that or you go shopping and get off your shopping and put it in another bag of that but if you get cocaine every time you don't have a bit let's all let go do you want some and you give off a bit away it's the most expensive drug there is and that's the one that you give it away before you even took it you're giving over a jawline you wanna chew ever known snips often has it he can often and make sure you find someone to give up a bit away to in crazy yanked up it may come at a different perspective but you were saying you said you the reason you didn't do it is because you saw someone so many of your heroes and so who were some of you heroes well I still got some but I don't know I don't want to put them in the same category of course sure you can categorize yeah yeah I mean of I was very close friend of the Criterion's ok charlie cry lived in my house I was here I was his character reference in his last Co case he got he got 12 years it didn't do me no good I buried Ronnie cry out done all the security for his funeral that propelled me into sort of naughty boy stardom why do you think that is well I think is actually exactly effortless I'll give you a little i'll give me a little running a bad dive code you grew yeah sure I'm doing the doorman yeah I'm doing this doorman thing I made one new documentary about it's called the Bermondsey boy and there was a bad man preparing to go to prison and they filming me doing the doors and they knew urgent gaffers no seven witnesses against me and they've got an ID permission from Home Office to fill me when I come out and whether prison had worked and how many friends stayed loyal in order and on the day before I went to prison somebody visited all these witnesses and they didn't turn up so they done this documentary of they've cooked lead a debt collector car repossession rent a clump you know not all there so they've got all the bad bits and then it was going to be easy to make it look like I was a reformed character cuz I film some it's bad but then I've got no QE but I didn't know what to do with the documentary so they just put this documentary and tell you this is for a year ago of this raving lunatic running man doing all he's been with thousands of bald-headed blokes all on his side and what made me different is I'm multiracial myself yeah my wife is Jamaican you know I have my own mixed-race children so at that time what skinheads and black men weren't really genuinely on the best of frame of mind it was genuine real right money you know my choice of lady made my army multiracial there they didn't mind working for me so I had six hundred big black guys six under Muslims eight hundred white fellows you know it didn't matter me on my side you'd if you could arrange take on all coming today you understand me you will fight for this I'm cold but your net you know that's exactly same as what I my army grew the reputation grew because of the documentary the Kray twins wanted to get to know me so I went to go and see them I was running over the door order the nightclubs the Stringfellow's the Hippodrome the Ministry of Sound all my daughters and I wanted a little bit of it you understand I mainly to do that now to get more me when I was a young impressionable man at the time couldn't believe I'm gonna meet the craziest that you got yeah how old were you some time for some metal bag 26 summer on that you were 26 24 and at that time were they in London were they gods and I wrote imprisoned it or there's no one no nothing is as big as a myth mm-hmm no one or nothing is bigger than me not the Kray twins not Dave corny maybe no even John got Al Capone yeah I mean nas brings the myth you know always romantic the real nitty-gritty bit is it the same year crime is only glamorous in a book or in a big screen it's not really it's propelled me into locust and no II boy stardom thing yeah and so now the Kray twins died no I looked at that as the biggest and best security job because I had a security company mmm-hmm I was ever gonna get this CNN driving rounders right you know and most criminals are supposed to conduct himself like this they stay in the shadows with the collar up their pictures no common you know it's a dirty business know that and I chose the best 150 army that I could choose to do the security for that died mr. Glasco mr. Newcastle mr. Liverpool mr. London mr. Brighton mr. Leeds mr. Manchester these were listen when I see him on meeting my ass in the morning I wanted to invade Iraq yeah well you know you cut out I'm too old to say that but well it makes you hard yeah you're looking at their Minister I'm looking at it as the best shelf folks you can get they're all coming there to showed or come near to show respect to the to the ronnie kray yeah do you know the sort of you know the mythical king of the underworld and a lot of these people never really gone with each other but for that I know three quarters of a million paper there and I needed a properly 150 quarters of a million three quarters of a million people come to see when he cried you bet there's many lady time Winston Churchill and I to meet him with the police chief of police and you know this ace things in your life that you wish you could cut your tongue hell because you should never said it sure my big one was I had to meet him with the Chief of Police at the time and I was sitting there talking away about the security and bloodbath and I'm a little cocky i chuja he was sitting of Charlie cry and myself and all these other people and he said well the one thing we you've got mr. coat that we've got mr. Courtney that you haven't that your little band of men haven't got no me nice voice not being rude to each other said the truth is how money trying to help you I said the church holds 250 people there's gonna be a million out there if you don't know the right 250 people to live in they are gonna get the amp and in policemen yeah and if that policeman says you can come to the hole in the ground cemetery and you've got way outside if you said that you're the wrong person they are not you know they're not policemen fans myself in the best being you look and do is line the streets and leave the security of this to me and mine because I know what I'm talking about and who I'm talking to who do you let come into the funeral parlor and kiss one each there buddy and who do you say no to first then no to the wrong person you're going to get smacked in the mouth mate no service to them and he's not liking it but he can't argue with me and a bit nasty back as he's Chief of Police so he has to talk to me like that so when the one thing we have got mr. Comey but your little band of men haven't he said not everyone is a criterion friend he said there could be an assassination attempt and the one thing we've got to you haven't got you said his firearms now could I cut my tongue out what I said was please let me tell you something the one thing you've got no we haven't got his firearm certificates I said we've all got [ __ ] gun and I shouldn't have said that I shouldn't have said that because that made me an instant enemy of someone from that day on he went destroyed Dave Keuning yeah destroy anything he does of thing that hurt me that genuinely collapsed one a world in their comment but for that day is there riding in the shadows in the thing I made it that the world is looking at this for you no no looking all mere mind to pick it up yeah and I was determined to give you lot over there in America something to look at yes I mean if when John got you got buried also and watch the old day yeah you know much any horse I knew you ago no so I made sure you had something to look at but what I didn't realize is that the authorities the police look there looked at that as the very first time of visual proof of organized crime I said that's one criminal celebrating the life of another criminal has organized all these other criminals to come down here and do Derek that's organized crime let me ask you at that time was it public in in London was the public already that there was organized crime did they all what extent it could be if it wanted to hear when the invention of the mob are found in a computer like yeah but now I'll actually know how organized crime could be until no is visual proof of it the police mob would a dodgy little things of wow-wow-wow no no friends but the general public was not aware of really so a man could call up all the firms in London and Ireland and Scotland and Wales and Ireland the yard is an IRA and triads in your cozy little one-man can call it a pan or gamble stand on the side of a road to protect my man well we never seen that before and that made them go well as well and put a little clamp down on they repeat nerd Dave quickly done so that's when the populace started realizing who you are in the front pages of paper edge celebrity gangster heir to the throne god I want that title where'd you go after that title and no one runs off and against the world into the sunset or lives happily ever after yeah you get a 35 years retron you or a belly button in the fridge you didn't one no I don't want that so I quickly just as publicly tried to go know and wrote a book stop the ride I want to get off yeah I'm tired you say that goes the more family should get for being naughty the less not you can be interesting right the more famous you get for being naughty listen all you get I could even get out of my car and got bang to the gauge you in the car beyond because everyone would say Dave Coakley done L see him on the telly oh no I can't even be a debt-collection a mohawk on running your ass and fray all around the front room and threaten you and get your money off you you'll go Dave company Danny I know I must see I'm gonna telly hmm I can't do it you have to use different methods avoid them woke you up at 3:00 in the morning with a balaclava on just like we learned in bed with your wife and an uppercut engages not no excuse me excuse me she'll stop church church it's about that seven hundred thousand pound here shoots love it's about a seven hundred thousand memory I know you ain't going in the bed so I kept me I'll give you a week but by big choir huh I'll give you a week and I will be better in awake and if I don't get it the next time you see me I'll give you know they're all right no no don't worry I won't need no ornament ya won't wake the kids but sort of funny out what that was a new way of doing it rather than running in a gun you owe him run in little went up again hmm did it hurt your business it crucified they closed down my door company the next day they didn't hide it they went into the nightclubs and when you employment they've called me security they knew one haven't you might have a licence for a television let alone a nightclub check him I mean that's the fastest way to put your business they did it you know and then the school was down to me would I police pick up my children down the road because I didn't want me walking in the playground to clip my kids because I was unnerving the other parents and so how do you make money after that huh what was your form of making money well my father making money was debt collecting the car repossession the door company no I know but after God crucify me after that they've done everything so I then went into the entertainment world I started doing a bit of films my cut of albums I wrote a few books and and it was all working because there was freedom of the press then right there was freedom of the press they could write about anyone I wanted if they 40 was interesting they could put me on as guest speakers unless you're saying there isn't today no no no course not no no no there's no there's no a genuine law in England where you cannot glamorize crime so if I gave my book to a book critic he would give it back to me so I'm not allowed to do that Dave oh I'm not allowed say it's any good by law I'm not allowed to say you can do in your country in this country you're not I'm not allowed to be on any game shows and he chapters any radio my name is now flagged if anyone goes to blog about me in the press it has to go to Scotland Yard first and if it's anything Oh Davis I doubt that it's non listener law I think it's two and off years old you can check that one out it's a two and a half year old law yes I made note glamorized poem Virgie having that glamorize crime verging could publish my books but they're not allowed to put a poster up saying David Courtney's got a new book out because the poster is glamorizing so how do you make money you know I'm not making a lot of money in a moment I'm living on what I bet yeah I've got night club in my home I do alright with other countries people like this do right adora I'm more of an invoice or an ambassador I'm no longer an active criminal they're still on my telephone they still him not last year the year before last offense five monitoring devices in my house five the army came I've done it for me five their remote-controlled able to brand new ones that they drive past and got Bing and then you can check your house there and there's none in there and then let you try passenger pings and your live oh I found one more bedroom one of your bedrooms forget all the gangsters burned in the kitchen there me having a wank mentor and I haven't laid off me at all because now they have map now my biggest threat to them is I'm making crime look glamorous welcome do you think you are though no I'm not I'm not glamorizing crime i'm glamorizing dive yeah I got him in a cocky postman I'm in a cookie milkman I'm just having a laugh and everything I'm not glamorizing crime I'm telling you now do not be a criminal hear me or there I'm not glamorizing climb today's a wrong time to be a criminal you are not picking your wits against the Sherlock I'm policemen and more you're trying to beat technology and you can't do that mate alright you can't do that let's active pictures of you from the moon knocking on the edge don't listen to the computer game Tony Montana the rapper they're singing about some ink that's old like cowboys and Indians knights in shining armor pirates they're all romantic gangsters of the day and gangsters are one of them there's no longer any I'm not glamourizing you i'm glamorizing me so do you think that's a good thing what that you can't be a criminal you know I just think it's history and not you can't be a pirate no more you can't be a cowboy no mom no no no you can't no look abuse no more stop with these people in pinched web search now waiting to see how do you get a million pound a day you're a calculating guy you said you know you use knife 20 years you use gun this many years you use you know brass you know that's gonna give you 18 months right you sure you're pretty good cocaine you know you do cocaine you have to share with somebody who smoke weed you don't you know acid all of a sudden you're very calculating it's very obvious you're very calculating so today do you think the internet and what's happened do you think that is making the world safer because I'm person tell me so go go tech so you you're going to route of the government has more control over the people then there's every control ever to figure out it and if they wanted to stop drugs that could stop in drugs they didn't want to name criminals and they could stop the criminals coming out there they need criminals the biggest employer in America is the legal system the biggest employer for the out of America is the prison officers the policeman the traffic wardens the slits is the judges the house tools the information officers rape everyone stired not parking on a double yellow line do you think that England they're gonna sack 1 million traffic wardens do you mean if they generally everyone stop Devon's crime they've got a sec 50 million placement 80,000 prison officers so you know they don't want their I have to publicly be same by that little box in the corner to be doing the right thing you had a computer or whatever you understand my meaning of course yeah they can convince England from the television to go over to another country and blow it up for weapons of mass destruction and then go auxillary we were wrong cough if they can do that I can convince you of anything I let him say things about me on a tell you know I actually went to cope with a bent policeman and I went arm taping him and he was going no he's paying me i bugged him so i got not guilty and the couple in the prison excuse me can I just hold myself and saying that I went I'm gonna coat the copper got five years and I've got not guilty the old base other right right but they were actually rather than me come out and write another book and everyone loves Dave cool they actually started moving to I was an informant I was hmm really what if I answered it with one word yeah bird I might be an informant but who can't go well Corey's an informant hoodie grass up Morden I just heard he was tipping a word or Wendy yeah um they said about me had it been believed I shot the police create your overall do they allow the rumor to come out of Dave Courtney pays the place they've called he's got the police in his area yeah he's the cop type couldn't win a coke dress as a clown the couple went to prison and Dave got not guilty do you think they're gonna allow that to happen if they've got control of the press or do you think they won't I'm marching you know that makes sense are you familiar with the Donnie Brasco story Joe Pistone favorite area the FBI goes to lefty and they say he is in Turkey as an informant and left he doesn't believe it but he ends up being an informant and in this case you're saying you're not but badly what was your friction with is it Frankie Fraser what was the friction friction the truth by over here Frankie Freddie's wife ran off with my doorman and he hated my guts for ever ever since I couldn't prove to him I didn't know about it I didn't know about it I know called a bear but that's what happened and when they all that come up in the copper went all now I'm paying Dave Frankie went you're believing those gross so important in Dalton on it even though the rest of the whole of the underworld like the Ronnie and Reggie Christ and I was all right Ronnie big said I'm all right Charlie Bronson said I'm all right Richardson Frankie pretty much the only one that didn't sell so it was him because his wife had run off for Meyer yeah and I didn't like him for that yeah I went round his house and I went down battery but when I went man there is 78 he's seven stone I couldn't even hit him a break and I loved what was that conversation like when you guys said who were no conversation issues here we only do he had no teeth in a string vest I mean I can't even eat you you're break you can silly little man now look at you off you know I didn't want someone to don't shoot me just can y'all believe the police and then it went to call I was found not guilty so there shouldn't be no room I was okay the policemen went to prison I had the tape on and bugged the copper walk became more proof do you want I would've cooked whis is a clown and bad him what do you want me to do understand mommy but he's decided to go now I still believe the copper so it made it real freedom but not L freely enough of me do anything he's eight years old and had he actually because he was a really big myth he done 47 years in prison and I don't know it ones go he got caught with everything you ever done the silly bastard everything he ever done he got caught and now he's done 47 years in prison aren't supposed to look up to him because he's done 47 years in prison but it's an [ __ ] he's a complete nob and that little myth about you got to prison and learn a lot of new crimes that's not true you're only gonna meet people that got Kiko oh you're gonna learn in Aries how not to do it nobody knows gonna be no criminal genius because you're all in prison oh you're gonna learn all day long is there gonna tell you this is our cocoa as L go co-anchor gloves fingerprints GPS they know tell you and they got cold so if you didn't come out of prison and you want to carry on being a criminal if you can remember all the ways that they told you they get cool then you're a bear criminal because you've remembered all the ways I've got coke but no one in there is gonna chase you out do it properly because you know cool does that not make serious I understand what you're saying I mean I understand the point you're making and he said he had 40 hits right in his career he had some number like that is would you read about about him doctor yeah that mean that's what it because I know old of the paper that grew up in his era yeah to put in the papers che fairs over far it's all not real he never ever as part of the myth he'll never happen so let me ask you he came during the era of the crows yeah the Kray twins so who were the Kray twins in London how were they ace London okay it was a lot easier to be an art not then because they won't look right men around we just come out of a war and all of our men have been killed so there weren't a lot of men men around Johnny our man is that what you're saying it was very poor these two little brothers was in East London it was quite easy to run bare norine in in them days because there's only 12,000 people living in East London now there is 750,000 people living in London and none of them are from can't even say the name cratering in them days they spoke and understood English all right when the crater engineer they spoke and understood England English everyone was skin.you there was no muggings and burglaries and you could leave your front door key on a piece of string because who's gonna break in your ass what the [ __ ] if you got in your house there was nothing in there to Nick right it was 1950 there's no-one had nothing you're breaking someone's ass and leave him a fire furnace you need feel terrible no one had nothing so they run East London there was a little firm called dams I remember turning a minute run no Flandern and the Richardson's run South London the Nessie's run North London yeah Ritchie says with the cleverest by far they both invested in diamond mines and all that blah blah blah nobody answered when interpreter but the Criterion's went for the glamour they went for the headlines newspaper rings they even borrowed other people's nightclubs to pretend at their own you know when they died the mums old still living in the same council s they were boning yeah one was gay and dip mind saying he was gay and if anyone said he was gay he would walk into a pub in front of everyone a shoo-in for it and yep one was gay but didn't I tell everyone so he got married didn't sleep his wife a year and she killed herself that's the truth of it if I told you anything that weren't right I'd get shot I'm not talking about football or acting or singing I'm talking about a naughty boys world and if I'm wrong about anything I can't tell you this can I I would job be too silly Church I'm telling you what's in you is fact and Frankie Fraser was nobody ever [ __ ] he lived in an old Caravan on the Richardson's bloody one of their Breakers yards and they came back with someone one day with a sack over him that they'd give him a clump I tied him to a chair got Frankie Fraser to wear their bait was whacking him he was cuckoo Moon River liar so I got Frankie Fraser to take them to fing off all right so the bloke saw Frankie when when they'd let him go any winter coat what he said was I was getting beat up inside the sack the pain was they excruciating they it felt like Frankie Fraser was pulling my teeth out with pliers all right full stop when they reported the story in the morning to the public and the jury before the case ended then you've got carte blanche as a journalist [ __ ] you can start that conversation wherever you want and as they as they went he said and Frankie Fraser was pulling my teeth out were pliers stop now it suited the Richardson's to let the rest of the world think that they had a torturer and he suited Frankie Fraser for the rest of the world to think he was connected to the Richardson's as he's only a [ __ ] little skinny tense town when where and it suited him to let him think he was criminal collected and it suited them to think that they had a soldier er I didn't have to actually hang around with him because he was in prison for 47 10 years so it just suited everyone and then when he left he come out he's so deluded that on the cover of his book he's 78 instead of sitting there with the globe in a library and talking about crime right there he actually went ha ha ha thinking he was still as scary folks you know I completed a table yeah sorry you can see I read that line a guy yeah but I'm not saying anything no he's a liar and if because I've been saying it for about him for 20 years while he was alive had anything that anyone believed about him was true I won't be allowed to say there's something would have happened to me had it been true what he was saying about you what what myth about the Kray twins Wooster would they feared would they know definitely they weren't there were no a bit of work but there wasn't as well organised or its well feared as was still possible they were in East London I knowed yeah yeah that postcode Yun's down I mean Ian we've got the same little postcode words now but yeah you've seen seven hundred thousand now back then it was 12,000 that's a big yeah so else would be some of your heroes what would you like for us like a Guardian some of those they have a little bit of Tennyson am Jimmy right today all grew slipping back we've gone back now and we're started right after I'll write the books doctor right away together and it all come out about me wearing the me wearing the pink joke oh yeah I don't get our guests an invite to go to Sicily to the private audience with 425 businessmen in their villa with five interpose for five grand so meaning go to Sicily yeah and we get there and it's the king you know we only see them on telly and I'm happy with what comes from Jim Peckham I you know I mean yeah we think my bad but we only say down on the telly yeah but these are the bad ones and it was bonus kony before he was punished and all these other people well I didn't know they were it was just a mental for me and he was talking in broken English which makes it all sound gangster eat Russians that me know you don't talk to me about gangster boy and a 1 million you see sandy lair I don't want many bank robbers I know 1 million murderers I don't know any man it's gonna put dressed like that punched a copper in the face before he was tenant I said you tell me about that day he said because there is an unwritten rule book about going to cook and that goes round in the whole world apart from the Cosa Nostra and I tell you why when he says first rule they're not bring all your friends with you it says we're not sir yes sir no sir pleasure thank you and a letter from someone that's known you 20 years saying you're a nice guy Denham rules I've kind of cool in whatever country we go to the only people that don't have to abide by them is us because they the judge knows it's John Gotti it's not working coming being all [ __ ] nice like that and yeah because he knows exactly what he is and who is there so they come into court gangster huh they come into court like lumps in their pocket and he went the only person I've ever seen do that is you amazed you mean so you tell me tell me what made you go cool like that with all your friends walking bass the cop addresses it gonna tell me that day I'll give you your money oh yeah so I've told him that day but over there anyway that's it done alright because when I come home he's now ending up being the prime minister blow and end the Italian bookshelf for true crime it's the smallest bookshelf in the world in every in any other country interesting right because I got the Mafia there they're not interested in crates when the Great Train Robbery yogi thing here they've got the map here in the corner of Rome bookshop you said I haven't got all the other different nationality ones that we have well I need up getting my book in there which I've always been really great only because a Scania dengan on these guys publishers you've made a bit yeah I've got in Italian I'm gonna tell him so then the Gambino's what happened after that they're all doing a little bit of talking then jay-z put mark picture on a cover of his album on blueprint I spoke to the Oxford Union and they bought a book about it and he thought that was really funny a convicted felon teaching future Parliament actor behavior they've currently talking to the Oxford Union on how to behave that's funny yeah educate me funny so he put my photo of addiction in his head on it and called it blueprint I'm sitting there talking to her to future Parliament least what he said on it so that's happened so what that's being talked about there's a book out about it and the Gambino's their family I don't know who they will how I out there were but they when they come over they have a six-week vacation in trouble Europe didn't they say they're all can't man Europe and they've gone it they've got in touch with Freddie Foreman Aires a superior in the crime world to me yeah and said we want to go to the Ministry of Sound well that was one my doorman so he goes David listen uncle some got some young American kids every write down again a minister loose and he said just so you know with all that buttocks why would you look after them for me you know of course it will Fred no problem general come around my house said these young 15 kids come around my asses to look like lumps but they won't they won't their dad and their child to be their friend Jerry you know I've had a wicked some of my ass of ever laughing choking a little path when it couldn't show him well appointed minister sound about a team wiki night didn't want to go back to the hotel stayed the night in my house I've got big old out I had a [ __ ] great them know by the time they go back to whatever mom and dad they got there they're going they take they take they don't they yeah they take things doing all right out there in America at anyway we've already have a little things of you know Jay Z and rancid I don't if you've earned the band rancid hmm one of their one of their tracks on their album so I've got the the naughtiest white guys singing about Dave Courtney in America I've got the naughtiest black guy singing about dope Courtney in America I've got the Gambino's kids all going he's been lovely I've got a in the Mafia bloke who ended up being the Prime Minister of Italy again good book good book right so now we're all going over to America I never done I've listened do some what you gonna be there for I for the Virgin for the book thing and I ended up not selling it in America because I have competing we smoke a cigar on a cover because the cigar was undercover and they were not comfortable with that anyway by the time it gets over there there can't be no people they'd heard I was coming he's my pal but he's a coward he's brave enough of things but it is coward I baby I'll leave it with me beautiful but the fighting thing and a gangster thing really honest I'm saying right and so we get to the airport and these two blacks come over to us and I'm gonna fulfill this one there he goes mr. Kearney I'm gonna have to separate you from your company at the moment but this is very important people don't need to say hello to you it won't take a long time so I'm ready to start splitting so they could jump me away help me help me so can get killed just I mean he's going that's all I might get off we go check him alone up Suites in like you know Eterna me but it's just Gambino alone and they're taking me around to me all these people I've never met before old men smelling a little bit like tomorrow's all them weren't looking at how black my pictures I didn't know anyone but looked after the kids have blood all things like that you know cranky chops you better yet so no coming out here Joe there go in there to jay-z's club so we got the jg scrub we don't know if so the tribals gotta come in the car guys I take it in don't worry I think yeah so he takes us there to jay-z's club I'm going to be knowledgeable of now I'm buzzing on you right I'm not saying I'm learning I'm not I'm not a mean I'm not a base you're not baseball no no scary phonebook customer game yeah no anime no right so heating cuz I take you so he gets us to this club there's a big letter Q got beside and the big gig on that side and these doorman English people don't come that big I don't know way you Americans get black men that be a ton of I must really their mom coming out they must really a term um because I saw that for real you know I've got Imaginext missus in New York in the UK yeah it's crazy anyway so then he pulls up because wait a minute and he just runs up the stairs talks to the abdominal there girl and I would not come out so when we come up and just let me let me straight in and I was gonna die on a me come up so we're gonna put me carry said I'll just give me that man and as I'm walking up to to give him my back turned you're talking these guys I don't know would have feeling man I'd done order because when if he's got the can't be no stuff anymore periods of camp I'm gonna be a nice to the guy from something that a tricks not trick you know I may not all that happened you know I couldn't have planned it I couldn't planned all of that kind of Sicily during them get him a book out over there jay-z put Monica everything Gambino's Tenakee I couldn't handle you know I mean you couldn't everybody ended up like that that's amazing that's amazing we need you know you read about the Kray twins it goes back to how Sinatra used to come here and he's right to hire their security that's right Judy Garland used to come and do things with them I mean they were published aid they were prostitutes with publish a their me for they were properly possible yeah prostitutes for publicists right yeah like they they coated the press massively young Shama main in and that's what actually eventually got them coke once I mean is what they were run away and believed it all actually run away and believed their own hope yeah in reality when they died that between them all they never had fifty thousand pounds there wasn't never regret and and they didn't own a house there mom dinner designer and how does that happen do I mean huh what I just didn't want money that wanted Fame more than they did one yeah yeah yes right huh and the Richardson's wanted the money they had the money and the power that's right yeah huh and what the program what the place and the press done is they made them to fight each other you know what I made eight they caused the conflict so that much due to a fight and it's easier for the police to come home I was in here at mania West Side Eastern or I can they can cause conflict and actually gets him get some cold you know and then Richardson's didn't want conflict but they made all that happen oh I actually instigated the very first time the richest has met Christ after 30 years I took Charlie Richardson who got our prisons to come visit Reggie Kray who was imprisoned it both went inside for years and Frankie Fraser or you said yeah how was the meeting yeah Mary's like well you could yeah I like talking but that was just you den it was like electric and I just went into this prison and now it's a go I just push the stick tables up together no one said nothing and they all set around it those open each other's hands like wow really yeah yeah really Nene look a little of you saw something if you'd respect the unity so Amy agent last time they saw each other them yeah beautiful when when did it kind of uh not necessarily disappear when did it kind of all settle down a bit here Yoshio down a bit yeah a series I went a prison they all got 30 years y'all got 30 of us there you got in there how firm got say 10 20 or not you what is not a good advert for British crime he's on the dyno sentence their solicitor who's not an assassin and my barrister said to them the evidence against you is so strong they is impossible to get knock your way right so the deal what got for you is if you want to go Gilley I can let the rest of your whole firm out if you go knock your way you are all gonna get 20 years and you I'm gonna get five years but if you want to go guilty now your whole firm can walk and you have to get found guilty there was too much against you you walked into the pub and shot him you ain't gonna get away with that yeah everyone saying they said you know and they went now that we won our Fermi with us we won't have farm in prison with us and chose to bring them in prison with them when I could have let them go that makes me wanna [ __ ] me and be embarrassed to be an English criminal there's not leader material is it they could have said QE and let the whole firm go home but I went no Kiwi and took the whole firm to prison with him what why do they do that he's got a power in well because they were too frightened to go prison on their own outside of prison yeah they had an army random inside prison know going to be segregated on their own so they took their army and with them and then after being imprisoned for just 24 15 months Reggie wrote a book meeting it all anyway Turner this one has become Christian not real but he just powered of course there's nothing else to do he became openly gay in prison and all that in the Christian bit was to hopefully give him a little bit of leeway that they might let him out but the only thing he had left to do to say I'm a nice bloke now you and Salman was turned Christian but he's how firm which I know well which were all good friends of mine were gobsmacked I've just got 20 years he got 10 years all right they know they'd been offered the deal to go go guilty and win at your firm off none of the firm come when he say to him go guilt we go get what we go guilty because every man's got the right to try and win a court case mm-hmm but I was thinking you know so they lived with it even though he didn't go get where they all went a prison and then I think it was 24 or 36 months after that he wrote a book of meeting anyway so they went what did you what did he drop everyone names in the book why didn't you have me yeah that you did it then and then none of us would about to go to prison did their people two people turn against them or no they now locked up and I was turned into mythical characters all of a sudden the West and the East End start again filled up with Indians Pakistanis Polish Russians Jamaicans Irish and they lost their English culture and they got all wrapped up in the rabbit so we think it was all because the Kray twins went away let me ask you this let me ask you know how a military has a code you know the Italian mafia has a code the La Cosa Nostra has a code what was the code that what's there a code you guys lived by and guess what was of code I'm gonna tell you generation to generation I tell you watch no no England just come have a war and a spy or a grass was the worst thing in the world one spies more dangerous than a thousand men walls have ears and all of that so if you're the policeman at that time and you caught a criminal yeah and you become a snitch you would get captured in ribbons you'd get killed too many snakes if you were to create a placement of time your job was hard because no one classed anybody up ending was known as the Bulldog Nation then you could pull their fingernails out and we wouldn't tell anyone so wouldn't tell the secrets that was what ingdom was about all right and then they realized that the Warren at the more years had made a nation of none informants so they spent the next 60 and 50 years convincing you that informing was good on every single in television station now on every single channel on prime-time television if you want said this to me 25 years ago I called you a liar there was your program going and if you see this guy just ring us up and we give you some money and if there's another tool we got one phone call already come on and if you see this phone if you see these yeah and then there's a thing in every newspaper if we know someone that's working while climbing social if you know anyone selling drugs if you know anyone selling arms if you know anyone that's drink-driving not they've made grassing acceptable good and now if you get caught for being an informant you don't get beat up in prison you're going to your former swing where the other twenty thousand of you are so it ain't such a bad thing no more so they have Nerdrum down to England that informing is good and then some bright spark is now gone if your mom and dad smack your bomb they banned the kind I banned the kind which meant if you're a boy game 6 wax of course the arts would have been wood at the end as I stopped you being noe you get a detention or child offers I mean yeah getting someone's smack you across to bumming a bit would at the end of the day put manners on you yeah mm-hmm right they banned that and now someone's just banned it that you cannot smack your own kids if you smack your mum if your mum Smet you you can tell us and we will put in prison they teach the children five five nine three three two one four they teach them the telephone number to ring if your own mum and dad discipline you then 18 Hitler Youth lost your mum and dad up if they smack you so you got no discipline at school and you've now got no discipline home your own mum can't give you a smack on a bum all right so what charge does the kid got when he gets to sixteen seven and leaves home to go in a big walk really don't know discipline and I said what we're going to do about you for today you've lost that war is done yeah because of that and they now teach children to go and grass on your mum and dad if you get smacked mum well somewhere along the line now it's going to come back and bite you teaching your country to be informants and putting it on telly and having all of that and teaching your kids to cross at your mum and dad or somewhere down the line there's will come back and bite you because that don't make a proper men yes we've done well today Jimmy cold what's the code the code is old army things like the whole country was army orientated don't tell tales not short haircuts love your mum shiny shoes night sir it was army the whole country was army fired the how youth of the whole when Syria was was that was the gangsters code the same you look after your mom you nice and tidy nice and smart you do not charge you never leave one man behind you all the army things come straight out into road that's the code and what I've done there in today's world is they broke all the up and made it not right when it is right they still teach you that in the army but when it when the war finished which alright the fifties nobody throwing one away that that discipline was still on now everyone left the army and we're still doing bank robberies people are 10 or 15 people winning there were lot army maneuvers now you only rob a bank with one or two but they were you know it was all army fighting the code was you do not tell towers like the army yeah you do not run away and leave a man down right nice shiny shoes shoe haircuts and love your mum hmm and that was the code on the road there one away and they've now broke that down so that ain't near and I don't if I introduced you to 20 different criminals 25 years ago you'll see an armed robber a cat burglar a kidnapper of in a murderer now you're just doing narcotics and with the vast amount of money involved in narcotics everything and everyone is probable law policeman gangsters you know means you don't get someone killed once was 20 grand it was a love the money neighing jeongae done for go go don't have to have enemies you don't get caught for it just are some little Russian bloke who lives in Norwich to come down and do it mmm-hmm done goes back up there I'm afraid the only way I be a successful drug dealer Nerys to be on that side I'll get chastised for saying that but the the informant Network they have was so good no one could be a drug dealer the police not know I can be stupid enough to freak me you are a drug dealer and that being a drug know what's the pranic on of that the prone economies you can sell more if more people know you're doing it but the police will know so the police will just find a way to actually get you working for him no one's ever going to go I'm your Foreman if I actually catch you and go right but you found out you're a smoked and that will these photographs I've now got 20 years for you 20 years for you some 20 years we adore in 2003 work or do not want to work for me because you're getting that what you want don't quick is that literally it right necessary work how long has it been like this a long time and that's how it works anyone there doing it okay each one so let me let me ask you this final thoughts here okay you you you've seen a lot you've done a lot I mean obviously we didn't get into a lot of the things you've done yourself because you have a rap sheet yourself on the things you you're at a different phase of your life right now right yeah you've seen a lot I mean you know when someone comes in you're extremely ambitious I'm gonna make my point I'm a leader on the delegator I'm gonna be able to figure out exactly what I do in a boom a little bit more I got to make money I've realized how important the money part is the famous year kind of got me away from being able to make the money I used to make before all this other stuff and now this is a different phase right life is about a lot of different phases what are you looking back now saying you know Dave you like you said you bit your tongue you shouldn't have told the cop that we all have guns except you have a certificate we don't what do you have any other thing where somebody a young man is watching that somebody's watching the same what can I be sorry for them because I and and the efforts to everyone when they get older and whatever field you're in crime as well you you long to do that yeah put your head on someone and teach them and let you know what I know without having to go through all the hardships but in the crime world now what I know and what I'm used to is no good to you anymore trusting someone being good character shaking your hand and all that means nothing now the more nasty and come how in spiteful and murderous you are the more respect you get the more murdering deceitful you are they're the ones it's making it so well I've gotten off on that crime world is very old-fashioned and I would come very second very quick I've got nothing to offer them I'll just forget them I'm gonna cry and that's God's honest truth please and there's nothing more rewarding than being able to go let me help you meaning you get out or that's that's more sane yeah yeah just looking at Scarface on the video yeah there is no more there is no more him there's no mourning and the only ones that they let him be them gangsters now sending the drugs I working for the police who the police now they're drug dealers I don't think there's any drug dealer that the police don't know your drug dealer so the reason they're letting you be one is because you're working for him if I wanted to stop you that would stop you so listen I mean we can sit in you can go with stories it's endless stories I mean it's like non-stop with you and stories but you I appreciate you coming out and being willing to share and more than anything else sometimes it's great to hear somebody who's gone through the life you've seen it you've hung out with all the people that people read about and you're coming back and saying you know I don't know if I recommend this lifestyle I don't know if I recommend you wanting to go this route maybe take a different route for your life to the young people that I watch understand might be I'm trying definitely taking that one maybe if you'd watch me at 30 years ago come on Shady so right but right now is the wrong time to be a criminal man so wrong time to be a criminal wrong time powerful to know that this is the wrong time to be a criminal because it just means it's safer for all that is so to say Courtney is in the building believe it seems that my technique there's a good one with it yeah that was a good so having said that we're gonna end on this if you have any thoughts any questions that you took away from today's interview SEM you tweet at Patrick David again thanks for coming out to value time appreciate your time well thank you

Channel: Valuetainment

Views: 1,307,496

Rating: 4.6166773 out of 5

Keywords: dave courtney, patrick bet david, celebrity gangster, london gangster, david courtney, mafia boss, mafia story, mob life

Id: BO_a4jUov04

Length: 62min 4sec (3724 seconds)

Published: Thu Dec 20 2018

Reddit Comments

[u/philpotless]

Plastic gangster.