if I can get your thoughts on
the indictment of Donald Trump,
in the In the documents case you would
want. It was a national security
threat back. When the original search took
place at Mar-A-Lago. Give me
your assessment. Yeah, we see now with it. The audio
tape that that is out today as
well. You know, that there's just simply no
question that he's unfit to be
president United States. And you know, accountability, really matters accountability
for those issues that we've now
seen, in terms of this indictment of
the documents accountability for what he did
on January 6th, really matters if. And I say
that, I think the Department of
Justice has done a good job in
terms of the prostitution in the
convictions that they've
obtained for The Hundreds. Now, the people who actually were in
the capital for the more senior
people for sedition. Conspiracy for some of the proud
boys, a nose Keepers. I think it's fundamentally
important that not just the
foot, soldiers are held to account for
what happened, but that accountability go all
the way up to the top and if it
doesn't then those things will happen again
and will begin to see the
Republic unravel over after the
indictment. Do you reminded Republicans?
Decide that you would said
before it was, you were defending the
indefensible. There will come a
day when Donald Trump is gone, but you were just on her will
remain. I'm wondering if that doesn't
ring a bit Hollow now because he
has shown Incredible strength through all this to
indictments continues to lead
the field by a wide margin for the Republican nomination
and appears to be getting
stronger. What are your thoughts proves my point that mean that
the dishonor of continuing to defend a man who
has done what he did? Who failed for 187 minutes to
tell the mob to go home, the mob that he had provoked and
that he knew was engaged in a
violent assault, on the capital, and then
everything else that we have
seen, since obviously, the select committee made
criminal referrals. And I think that it's very clear
for the Republican party, they have to choose and the choice is whether or not
you support the Constitution or you support Donald Trump but
those are mutually exclusive and if the Republican Party continues down this path and
moves towards, for example, nominating Donald Trump for the
presidency, and I think that we have seen
day after day after day, the
party, go further and further down this path of not being
salvageable and I think the single most
important Shoe. And I mean that the single
most important issue that faces
this nation and we faced a huge array of challenges and
threats and they're very complex but the single most
important issue is that Donald Trump never be
anywhere near the Oval Office
again. Your? Your committee for committee
laid out of case, against Donald Trump and his
actions on January 6th to you
expect the of the grand jury investigating that part of the
special counsel's office, do you suspect that they will
bring it a Daemon? Well, I only
know, obviously, what I see in the
news and I think it's very
important, as I said, given what we know he did given
the extent to which we know, he attempted to overturn the
election, given his direct
involvement in this a collector
scheme, given the extent to which he
aided and abetted at a minimum, those who are involved in the
Insurrection failing to indict failing, to
make sure he's held accountable, carries with it, real danger for the Republic and
so I I certainly think that it
would be, it would be proper and that's
the reason why obviously we made
criminal referrals Enough or do you feel like your
committee kind of go to them to
move more quickly? It was really important for the Congress to investigate and one of the issues that I found inexplicable among many over the
course of the last couple of
years was how many Republicans did not
want to have an investigation of
January 6th. And I'm very proud of the work
that our committee did in a
bipartisan fashion. And I think that it was What we did, what we learned. And what we
were able to do was to lay out
in, great detail, the facts about what was a very
sophisticated multi-part plan to try to
overturn an election and and to try to remain in office
even though he had lost the
election, he knew we'd lost the elections.
And then, of course, the tremendous dereliction of
Duty when he refused to stop, the the riot, not only did he
refuse to tell people to leave, but in the middle of what he
knew was a violent assaults, he sent a tweet at 2:20 for
targeting his own vice
president. I mean this is this is behavior
that certainly someone who engages in that
behavior needs to be held
accountable and shouldn't be
part of our political process going forward as recently as last week that
the FBI and doj were being extremely careful,
not to appear political to the
point of not moving quickly. How do you assess that? I think it's it's very important
for them to conduct their work in a fashion
that is divorced from politics. I don't think politics should be
part of their decision-making and I think it's important for them to
proceed with care and to proceed
methodically. But I also think, as I've said, it's crucially important that Donald Trump be held accountable
for what he did to this country on January 6th, and, and leading up to it. Why is your message being
rejected her peers to be being rejected by so many Republicans we've never seen before in this country, and I think that there are multiple factors that
play one, is that there's a cult of
personality going on. Another is that leaders in the
Republican Party. Need to know that what I'm
saying is true, who know how dangerous he is or
unwilling to say. So, you know, there's a sense of well, we're
just kind of bystanders here
into the lies have gone
unanswered, and millions of really good, and honorable Americans have
been betrayed. They still
believe what Donald Trump is
saying. And those members of Congress, elected officials around the
country who know the truth, but
who are refusing to face, oh, are complicit in the damage.
That that is being done to the
Republic. I think that he must not be as
you know, right now, you look at the polls. He
clearly is the FrontRunner for
the Republican nomination. I think that nominating him will require what
will result in the Republican
party, splintering as it should. And I think that everyone needs
to be very aware of the danger
that he presents, and I tell this to my Democratic
friends and I have more
democratic friends now than I
used to but you know, it is It's really important for
Democrats to take him.
Seriously. You know, there can be a tendency I see
sometimes four people on the
Democratic side to say, well,
look sure. You know, the Republicans will nominate
him. The Republicans are a mess
but but will be able to beat him
in a general. And that is playing with fire.
And it's a, it's a risk. We can't take. So I think it's really important
for everyone to look at the threat
that he poses a part from from party
ideology and and realize it's something
that we have to take very
seriously. And we've got to stand against
this year's piece. You you seem
so far apart from other
Republican, conservatives are still placed in the party for
people like yourself. Well, I think those are two different
questions. I am a conservative. What the Republican party is
doing today is not conservative. I think the most conservative of any conservative principal is
Fidelity to the Constitution. And when you have a party that
has abandoned that, you know, they've abandoned conservatism.
So I am a conservative. I also think it's important for
us to recognize, you know, we've we've looked into the
abyss as a country and we we've
started to pull back, but but pulling back completely and
ensuring that we don't unravel is going to require thinking
about our politics in a
different way and it's it's going to require
that. We think about making sure
the people we elect or serious. Making sure the people we elect
our honorable making sure that they're
committed to substance and to
policy. And there is nothing better than a
substance is engaged debate with somebody
with whom you disagree. If if both of you are engaged
based on substance, then that's how you learn things
and it's also how you get the
best policy for the country. And I think that we have to
steer our politics back to the to those kinds of debates
and discussions. Referencing the republican-run
for the nomination, Chris
Christie, and Asia, Hutchinson seem to be sharing a
lane that takes them right at
Donald Trump criticizing at his behavior and
actions. Are they doing? But
look, I am I applaud what they're
doing will Hurd has also gotten into
the race recently. I think that anybody who is
willing to to speak the truth, you know, I deserve deserve support and you know why to be praised from
the outside? I'm only hesitating cuz I don't
know that it helps Republicans
for me to praise them. So but but I think what they're
doing is very important, is there a lane for someone like
yourself, which is another way of asking?
Have you decided to go to run
for president? Well, not announcing anything
here today Lester. But, you
know, I really the way that I'm
thinking about where we are and what has to be
done is much less about, you know,
what should I do in terms of, am I going to be a candidate or
not? And and much more about
stopping Donald Trump. Whatever that takes but also helping to elect other
good candidates, you know down-ballot and if you
if you think about the complexity of the issues
that we're facing and and the serious nature of
the threats that were facing,
you know, internationally for example. And then you think about the caliber of many of the
people that we've elected which,
you know, there's a huge gap and and I really think is people
go into vote by Earth people to, first of
all, run for office yourself. Put your name on the ballot. We
need serious candidates. So that
when you go in to vote, you have choices and then you
really need to think about it. I
think, you know where it where the
moment we're going to. Jamie
Raskin, who serves me on the select
committee? Who's the, dear
friend says, to me often that he looks
forward to the days when he and
I can disagree again because it'll mean that we've
righted the ship of our
politics. And I think in the meantime, you
know, We really. We need to make sure that
everybody is active and engaged
and involved, and I'm certainly going to be
doing everything I can to
support serious candidates.
Also, we need to make sure that our
college students are voting. I
think that are at that college. Students around the country are hugely important voting group to help stop Donald
Trump. And so, I'm spending a lot of
time on college campuses and
hoping to get college students, very actively engaged. By the way, I traveled all this way cuz I
heard your voice. But let me ask
you this if you would have run, would it be as a third-party
candidate? well, I'm not, I'm not going to do anything
that helps Donald Trump, and I think that You know what, I'll make a decision about sort
of what I do and what comes next
later on this year? But you know, I I feel very strongly about how important it
is that we not let slip away. What is so special and and Magnificent about this nation in and making Donald Trump stronger.
Not as a general matter. Because I think it's a, I think our politics are
undergoing a huge more than even
generational shift, because the Republican party has
so abandoned Any pretense right now of, you
know, standing for for truce in for
honor and for character and when you're in a situation
where one of the major parties
has done that, then I I think you do have to
think about what other
structures, including a third-party are
necessary and I think we have some time to
let that play out and make a
decision down the road who you endorse. So does that a lot of your potential influence sermon as you watched
this campaign, begin to pick up
Steve It's interesting because in the
last cycle I endorsed, for the
first time ever, two Democrats, and actually campaigned in
Michigan with Elissa slotkin
endorsed, Abigail spanberger in Virginia.
And so, I think that there are, there are many of us who are
serious, who want to do the work of
helping to make sure the country
goes in the right direction. And those, those candidates don't always
break down along party lines.
So, I mean, look, obviously my endorsement in a
Republican primary, probably not like something
people are really, you know,
begging for right, this second. So that makes it
powerful in another way, I can decide who I might want to
endorse and get out of the race. So you were busy writing a book.
Now, in a good title is oath and
honor. It's on the idea of
preserving our constitutional
republic. How do you remove the device
that threaten our democracy was thinking about doing or not
doing well? Thank you for the book plug is
available for pre-order. I was
going to honor, you know, I think several things one is thinking about American history and
understanding. For example, what it means that for the
entirety of our history is
there, as a nation, we have had a peaceful
transition of power. And we have been able to ensure two Democrats and Republicans a
peaceful transfer of power and taking very seriously what it
means to put people in positions
of public Trust. The people who are election
deniers, the people who are attempting to
unravel, those fundamental values of this
nation, they're very active and engaged. And so it means that we all have to be and you can't sit back and think
somebody else is going to fill
that Precinct position or somebody else is
going to be on the school board. The institutions are going to
defend themselves and and so the most important
message that I can leave with
people today is please get involved and if
you've ever thought about
running do it, put your name on the ballot get
involved and get engaged as long as you are going
to be faithful to the
Constitution. Richard. Our institutions, which
particular about the health of
our Criminal Justice System,
Hunter Biden, as you know, recently pleaded guilty or is
that I did a deal with you. If
the government regarding tax
evasion, many Republicans called a
sweetheart deal and evidence of
a two-tiered justice system. Do you think we have a
two-tiered justice system? The US attorney who is responsible for
the hunter. Biden investigation
was appointed by Donald Trump, the Department of Justice in the
statement that they issued
about. The deal said, the investigation goes on. I think as a nation is very
important that that our justice
system, not be infected by politics. And one of the things that I have
been really moved by has been the extent to which so many of our federal judges
have recognized the day. What happened on the 6th and you working on the select committee
because we were engaged in
litigation. There were a number of instances
where we had debates about, you
know, what judges would do. And, and you fall into a sort of the
traditional part is in thinking
about. Well, this judge was appointed by a
Democrat or this judges
appointed by Republican and trying to interpret how they
would rule in some of these
January 6 cases and almost without exception, are Judges, recognize and
understand, you know, that the damage of the danger to
the rule of law. So I think that the attacks that
we're seeing from the Republicans on Garland and on
Christopher Wray, you know, are unfounded and and they they are to understand
and recognize the danger. That that they are fomenting by
suggesting that this is somehow all political that this is very
serious business as well as weaponized. It's itself. The doj is or
merited mr. Trump's complaints
that the doj has been
weaponized. Trump presidency look like well, they're there cannot be
one and the And one of the things that the
that the investigation taught
us, one of the things we learned
was, how many individuals were
in important positions, where they stopped him from
doing things that were even
worse, and none of those people will
ever serve with him again. And so a second. Trump presidency will not have
responsible people at the White
House. Counsel's office would not have
responsible people to Department
of Justice. He said that, you know he would appoint Mike
Flynn who is you know, Mike Flynn. When I asked him in one of our
select committee depositions,
you know, whether he believed in the
peaceful transfer of power in
the United States of America, he took the fifth. And so I
think that that among many of
the other Concerned one has to have the
idea of the people that would be
appointed and the extent to, which they
would facilitate the, the damage that second Trump presidency would
would to let me play off at question of the former president
has been indicted twice once in
New York. And then of course,
the Federal indictment, if there was a third, if there
was a fourth which is quite
possible, where does that leave the
country in terms of any efforts
to unite the country? He must be held accountable.
And, you know, I think, if you look back to the arguments than the
Republicans were making after he
was impeached, and when a majority of the
Senate voted to convict but it
wasn't a sufficient number to
convicted him. There were many Republicans at
that point. You said, exactly
that he said, look we know, he should be impeached, we know
he should be convicted, he should never play a role in
our politics again but this is just too device if
we can't do this now and that's
the Ask that leads us to where we
are today. Which is, you know,
he's giving speeches saying, this is the final battle and I
am your retribution. So he must
be held accountable, and nobody should should have any
question or doubt that he'll, you know, do whatever he has to do to get
into the Oval Office again. And there's no way that you can
unify this country separate and apart from an
Embrace of the rule of law and
the Constitution, an election denialism at its core, but are there other threats that
we need to look around at
acknowledge other threats to our democracy that go beyond Donald
Trump certainly, you know, I think
that what we are seeing now is a lesson that I hope we all will
learn that we can't take this for
granted and that you know it's not just
Donald Trump, it's any election denier, you
know, when you have if you listen to what America's adversaries say
about our democracy A really good guide in terms of
who not to vote for is any American candidate who sang
the same things. Our adversaries
are saying. So when our
adversaries are saying, you know, democracy is obsolete, democracy is a system that can't
function democracy, can't meet
the needs of his people. The
kinds of things, the Chinese Communist Party
says, that's what Donald Trump
says, too. And I think that, you know,
we have to recognize The democracy is all of us and we have to take great care
in how we preserve it. We have to take great care and
how we deal with each other. And
I say, this is somebody who
certainly, you know, I have tweeted partisan tweets that I
wish I could take back over the
course of my career. I know that's hard for people to
believe, but I have. But I think
we all have to say, look, you know, these issues matter
too much, and if we don't treat them with
care, and treat each other with care
and commit ourselves to defending our nation, then, you
know, all of those things that we've
been so blessed to know. We'll slip away too much for making the truck
and being here. Thank you, everyone.
