Fran Lebowitz on Trump: "A level of moral squalor so profound" | Salon Talks

welcome to Salon talks I'm Mary Elizabeth Williams and this Legend next to me is Fran liit she is a writer she's an actor she's a commentator you know her as the author of The Fran Lia reader which is seminal text for Gen seminal for Generations you know from the Netflix documentary series pretend it's a city she's a sartorial icon bringing bringing the classic look to us today she's currently on tour with it's taking you around the country and around the world for the next year Fran about a year well I me I think I I do it all the time not just one year all right let's just say this next year but this next year I'm not I think I don't remember okay I think I'm not going back to Europe until next fall yes okay which I already have a schedule for then so you're going to Australia you're going you're going to Amsterdam you're going to Berlin you're going to Zurich but next you're going to Brooklyn that's the next one coming up right away right fantastic right and the upside of that is no plane no plane right how are you doing that what are you are you going on the Queen Mary in the 1950s I'm expecting to go by car I know you can go by Subway but I won't be nice it's the perfect thing now see I as a New Yorker I I love you and I would love to see you but I'm not going to Brooklyn Fran I'm not going to lie that's okay it's too big a journey it's far I mean this place I think is it's called King theater um I don't know where it is it's in Brooklyn many people do know where it is I mean all the people that I know who know where it is are 22 so it must be youthful venue I want to ask you about that because you have youthful fans you were talking about this before you have young fans you have people who have been generationally now reintroduced to your work the friendly btz reader just came out in the UK only three years ago became a bestseller pretend it's a city what is it about your younger audience that you see connecting with your writing connecting with your words connecting with your stories I don't know okay I really have no idea I know but I have always had a young audience to some extent um the difference really in my audience is the size of it because it turns out that Netflix is really popular like Netflix is more popular than I think probably every book ever written um and so I always did this I've done this since I'm 27 um but I always did in the United States or and Canada um but since Netflix I do it all over the world so that's a big difference the kids you know quite a while ago I noticed that when kids something me in the street the main thing they would say to me well they say a number of things one but a primary thing is I wish I lived in New York in the 70s it seemed like it was so much more fun was it and I found this like an odd thing for kids to say so I actually thought about it and I thought was New York more fun in the 70s than it is now you know I don't know but I you know I was in my 20s in the 70s so I do know it's more fun to be in your 20s and the 70s than your 70s and the 20s definitely more fun um but I also you know New York in the 70s has now achieved this kind of permanent glamour like Paris in the 20s you know um and I think really that's it they want to know about it you know and they also are like surprised because because of the internet you know they see all these photographs and they're stunned by they lust how could all these people know each other how could you all be in this room and what they don't understand is how small these worlds were then they were really small the New York art World fit into one restaurant um and it was called the New York art world now called like the global Art Market and of course it doesn't fit anywhere you know except in a bank um and so I think that I really think that's a big part of it I think also you know lots of times they ask me what to do friend I don't know what to do with my life what do you think I should do really truthfully I think what do I care but you know their parents kids that age their parents paid so much attention to them that they think all old people care about them you know but I me think do whatever you want what do I care although you know truthfully when you hear you know about the future of the CL of the planet you know I mean the first time I heard like on the radio I would say I heard on the radio the what look it up um I heard like a reporter Say by 2050 we'll be out of water and I froze in Terror until I realized I'll be dead I don't care and I have no children I don't care so when they say things like I'd like to be a filmmaker but I'm also a very good musician they're very um they seem to be quite confident they're abilities what do you think I should do I think I don't know but if I was your age I'd look for water because apparently we drank it all I don't even know what happened to it but apparently it's gone it will be gone so yeah just for water and also if you're worried about your creative career don't worry cuz in 25 years the planet is not going to exist anyway so that's what it seems like I mean really there are bigger things to worry about yeah lots of lots bigger things I want to ask you you you know when you say people ask you about about that time in your life that era when they're reading your books I'm really curious because I was I was reading your book again recently looking through some of your old essays and I realized it had been so long since I read it when was the last time you read something you wrote how often do you go back and revisit never no never I mean some these people show me stuff what you know or they tell me things never I I never look at you know things that I wrote um I never I never watch myself I never listen to myself I don't read anything about myself I lost interest in myself you can only think about you know one person for a certain amount of time even if that person's you so I think like I don't care and also when I have my photograph taken which I hate which I've always hated even when I was young and now of course I hate it more photographers always saying I'm just trying because it takes so much time just trying to get R picture I always think well then you should have called me the 70s okay so let's snap this up um but when they said do you want to see the picture no I don't I don't ever look at this stuff you don't look at the stuff you don't look at your pictures you also very famously don't have a cell phone don't have a laptop I have to tell your friend there's a lot about that that sounds wonderful to me it's not like you're not engaged you read the paper you you listen to the radio you listen to the news you know what's going on in the world but you don't have a cell phone what tell me what's great about not having a cell phone well I don't know cuz I never had one I mean not having a cell phone was not like some deliberate decision okay what I F that because cell phone is you know not the first thing they invented like that the first thing they invented like that that I'm aware of uh that you would have in your house the first computer say was called a word processor and a friend of mine who a screenwriter got one and she said this thing's fantastic you have to come and look at this so I looked at it and I thought well this is very just a very fast kind of typewriter which is all it was there was no internet then and I thought I didn't have a typewriter I know how to type and I thought I don't need this fast thing which I don't know how to use I mean I write so slowly I could write my own blood without hurting myself so I I said I don't need this um now of course I didn't know the entire world would go into a little machine um but it did and I just still don't know how to type and I just don't care it really angers people though I mean especially people I know people are furious at me I can't reach you I think so what who am I I mean truthfully if you have a real emergency I can't help you I have no skills in other words like you know I'm not like the head of trauma brain surgery at New York Hospital you know let me give you a list of people that you should call if there's an emergency I'm not on the list you know so I don't care if people can't reach me um and I don't really care if I can be in constant touch with people you know it doesn't bother me but it doesn't bother everyone else but what does bother me is people think it's some kind of moral stance it's not it's Happ stance really had to do with typing and when you say that you know people get angry and you say you don't care about that you very like I've read so many interviews where people will say well do you care about what people say about this or would you notice that people say that and your response is always I don't care I don't care what people think about me friend that is so wonderful like I would love to be able to cultivate that I think a lot of us even as we get older get a little better at cultivating that I don't care but it's hard what's the how does one do that how does one not care or get to that place of not caring because a lot of us care too much well you know I don't mean I don't care what people think of me that people that I know what people think of me as a person you know I am a human I mean I don't care what people think about about what I think about things you know I don't care if you agree with me I don't care if anyone agrees with me you don't agree with me so what you know and that I've always had you know okay so all right I think this you think that and it it does anger people and and I think that is also surprising because it really doesn't matter unfortunately it doesn't matter what I think I'm not in charge of anything I would like it to matter you know I would like I'm the president of United States and it really matters a lot my opinion but I'm not the president United States you know and so it doesn't matter I don't have any power you you know and so people shouldn't get so angry at me you know although they do um and but I don't I don't understand why anyone cares what people think about what you think you know but a lot of people do I mean and people always have and I um now I understand say a politician because they need people to agree with them but most people are not like say a senator you know although it seems like anyone could become one um but most people don't have that kind of power so I think people should just stop thinking about it and you uh I love that and I'm going to try and cultivate that I'm still working on it Fran but you know you also talk a lot about um you know I think of you as such a quintessentially New York person and I think being able to kind of not care or to be able to coexist with other different opinions is a very New York thing now you're going on this this tour you're embarking on all of this travel when you leave New York what do you miss about it because you're you're you're New York City Fran you you know I miss everything about New York you know in other words like no matter and there's lots of great cities in the world there's not lots of great CI in the United States so United States there's only one other city that's Chicago okay San Francisco San Francisco is a village la la is not dense enough to be a city you know I mean there are things I like about these places you know um but a real City to me New York and Chicago that's it and the other places are either too small or they're too adorable San Francisco Philadelphia is not adorable no Philadelphia is pretty I like Philly I really like Philly you know um but it's so close to New York that if you want to live there you could live in New York I know it's less expensive this is you know but every place is all right every place is less expensive than New York um but it's not my fault New York's so expensive I would prefer it less you know so but really where I want to go I want to go home right I mean I you know I travel all the time I've been doing this for years and years and um I you know people people go think where you going on vacation home that's wrong going home you know so I like I was standing in front of my building um at 5: in the morning with luggage and someone who lives in my building was coming in coming in coming in from the gym coming in from the gym at 5:00 a.m. of course she's a banker um and she goes oh you going on vacation I said no when you see me standing from the building with my luggage I'm going to make money when you see me coming in I'm coming to spend it I spend it here cost so much to live in New York that they have to spend all your time paying rent but you're boosting our economy for which I thank you Fran that yes that's my main and but I mean you also did you have said that other places are so much easier there's so much that's hard about living in New York there's so much that's challenging about living here and I read an interview recently where you said you know you don't go to museums anymore you don't go to movies anymore and the answer you gave was your fellow man is that well I go to museums I don't I have I I've gotten not gone to the movies in a movie theater for a long time generally I might go once in a while and I used to go all the time yes and it's because my fellow man it's how the way people behave in movies okay people behave in movies like their home in fact people behave everywhere now as if they were home okay they have no sense that I'm not in my own living room maybe I should put on long pants you know I'm not my living maybe I shouldn't be talking sharing my opinion of the movie with everyone else here um that's what keeps me out out of those places museums yeah I mean I still go to museums because there's no substitute for that you know I try to go to museums when they're closed which is sometimes a possibility um twice I've been able to go to the met recently when it was closed and that is the perfect way to go to the match did you see them in a dega show no I haven't seen it it makes you want to go to a museum it's pretty I mean there's every reason to go to museums you know which used to be empty you go you have to go in those early hours that's the that's the trick yeah but they used to be empty all the time because really not that many people interested in museums so you know there are very few people interested in museums when I was young when I first moved to New York if I was Uptown and I had like a half an hour you know to like you know till I had to go to the next place Uptown but not time to go home um I would think I go to the mum on AR yeah could fart around yeah you could just walk in I mean pay something but not $100 whatever it cost now you know Lin all these lines and truthfully you go and do you think do you I'd like to live in a world where this many people were interested in this but they're not really they're yeah it's it's different Fran I want to ask you one other thing because I read an interview I was doing research for this and I read an interview you did in with W in 2016 where you said I don't believe Donald Trump will become president because I don't believe there are that many morons in the United States there are turns out turns out there are I mean I like that there's three events in my lifetime that I remember every second of the event from the time it occurred and one is the assassination of John F Kennedy one is September 11th and the third is the night Donald Trump was elected because first of all yes I spent the year prior to the election going around the country telling thousands of people zero he has zero chance and I said that because I believed it you know it never occurred to me that I mean it was a joke you know so I was really shocked and like for at least three or four months after that election every time I walked out of my apartment people screamed at me you were wrong you were wrong I know I'm sorry believe me I'm sorry like I was sorry I was wrong I was sorry what you know what that meant that I was wrong um and truthfully you know if you'd only been wrong one time in your life that was not the time to be wrong you know so no I did not believe that there were that many people who would you know a friend of mine right before the election said you know he could win I said that is just absurd she said you know you don't understand this country because you don't watch reality television I said that's ridiculous now I heard of the television show but I never saw it that's true um but I never saw any reality television but I know that a lot of people like reality television but I didn't know they thought it was reality it's called reality television not reality right so I mean as you know I mean New York New York City voted for Hillary Clinton 9 to one okay even the Upper East Side voted for Hillary Clinton because even though they always vote Republican on the Upper East Side in presidential elections because you know taxes on Capital um but you know they didn't vote for Donald Trump so you know like what of all the horrible things about Donald Trump one of the things that most bothers me and perhaps you is that people outside New York think he's a New Yorker no one in New York thinks he's a New Yorker and it's the most insulting thing to me like you know I mean I would say you know no one in New York thinks he's a New Yorker and also no one in New York even thought he was real estate developer and the truth is that in New York the real real estate developers look down on him how can you imagine a you know a level of moral squalor so profound that real estate agents look down on you you know and they were right all right so I mean it was a shocking thing really shocking yeah and so are you gonna ask me if he's going to win this time I I'm afraid to ask you now I really don't think so you know I I really don't think so you know the problem of course is the Electoral College okay and this is the problem in if that wasn't for theal college there never be a Republican president okay twice in my life um which is long but it's not a thousand years twice in my life the presidency Was Won by someone who lost a popular vote both times Republicans George W bush and Donald Trump you know and in other democracies the popular vote is called the vote so the Electoral College you know both times it happened people who are that I know her non-american say what does this mean and when I explain it they go oh so it doesn't work I go no r perfectly it it does exactly what it was meant to do it overweights the rural vote the southern vote and that Far Western vote you know every state has two senators Wyoming Wyoming fewer than 600,000 people live in Wyoming they have two senators 600,000 people that many people live in my building my building should have a senator you know it is absolutely not representative you know these people represent acreage you know because when you look at these Maps Wyoming is like gigantic you can't believe it but there's no in there it's just empty you know so that's the way they can win but otherwise they can't they couldn't win all right Fran from your lips to the Electoral colleges ears friend leitz thank you so much for your time today what a pleasure we can watch you all over the country all over the world um even though I'm probably still not going to Brooklyn thank you Fran all right thank you

Channel: Salon

Views: 687,348

Keywords: fran lebowitz, interviews, writers, donald trump, comedy

Id: EKVvZDEk1eo

Length: 17min 58sec (1078 seconds)

Published: Tue Oct 17 2023