Jordan Peterson Clashes with Leftist Journalist on Gender Pay Gap

why should your right to freedom of speech trump a trans person's right not to be offended because in order to be able to think you have to risk being offensive i mean look at the conversation we're having right now you know like you're certainly willing to risk offending me in the pursuit of truth why should you have the right to do that it's been rather uncomfortable [Music] here in the uk for example let's take that as an example the gender pay gap stands at just over nine percent you've got women at the bbc recently saying that the broadcaster is illegally paying them less than men to do the same job you've got only seven women running the top ftse 100 companies yeah so it seems to a lot of women that they're still being dominated and excluded to quote your words back to you it does seem that way but multivariate analysis of the pay gap indicate that it doesn't exist but that's just not true is it i mean that nine percent paga that's a gap between median hourly earnings between men and women but that exists yeah but there's multiple reasons for that one of them is gender but it's not the only reason like if you're a social scientist worth worth your salt you never do a univariate analysis like you say well women in aggregate are paid less than men okay well then we break it down by age we break it down by occupation we break it down by interest we break it down by personality but you're saying basically it doesn't matter if women aren't getting to the top because that's what's skewing that gender pay gap isn't it you're saying well that's just a factor not saying they're not necessarily going to get to the top no i'm not saying it doesn't matter either you're saying there are multiple reasons for it yeah but those reasons why why should women put up with those reasons i'm saying that the claim that the wage gap between men and women is only due to sex is wrong and it is wrong there's no doubt about that the multivariate analysis have been done so i can give you multi-varied analysis i'm saying that nine percent pay gap exists that's a gap between men and women i'm not saying why it exists but it a woman that exists pretty unfair you have to say why it exists but do you agree that it's unfair if you're a woman not necessarily and on average you're getting paid nine percent less than a man that's not fair is it it depends on why it's happening i can give you an example okay there's a personality trait known as agreeableness agreeable people are compassionate and polite and agreeable people get paid less than just less agreeable people for the same job women are more agreeable than men again a vast generalization sometimes that's true but that's right and some women get paid more than men so you were saying that by and large women are too agreeable to get the pay rises now i'm saying that that's one component of a multivariate equation that predicts um salary it accounts for maybe five percent of the variance something like that so why not get them to ask for a pay raise i've done that many many times in my career and they just counseled oh they do it all the time you can it's so one of the things that you do as a clinical psychologist is um assertiveness training so you might say often you treat people for anxiety you treat them for depression um and you and maybe the next most common category after that would be assertiveness training and so i've had many many women extraordinarily competent women in my clinical and consulting practice and we put together strategies for their career development that involve continual pushing competing for higher wages and often tripled their wages within a five-year period of course so do you actually do you agree that you would be happy if that pay gap was eliminated completely because that's all the radical feminists are saying it would depend on how it was eradicated and how the how how the disappearance of it was measured and you're saying if it's at the cost of men that's a problem oh there's all sorts of things that it could be at the cost of it could even be at the cost of women's own interests so because they might not be happy if they get equal pay no because it might interfere with other things that are causing the pay gap that women are choosing to do like having children well or choosing careers that actually happen to be paid less which women do a lot of but why shouldn't women have the right to choose not to have children or the right to choose those demanding they do they can yeah that's fine [Music] so the simple question is do you believe in equal pay well i made the argument there it's like it depends so you don't believe in equal pay no i'm not saying that at all because a lot of people listening to you will just say i mean are we going back to the doctor you're actually not listening i'm just thinking and i'm hearing you basically saying women need to just accept they're never going to make it on equal terms equal outcomes is what how you defined it no idea if i was a young woman watching that i would go well i might as well just go and play with my cindy dolls i'd give up trying at school because i'm not going to get the top job i want because there's someone sitting there saying it's not possible i said that it's horrible it's going to make you miserable desirable that's what i said it's a bad social goal i didn't say that women shouldn't be striving for the top or anything like that because i don't believe that for a second striving for the top but you're going to put all those hurdles in their way as has been in their way for centuries and that's fine you're saying that's fine no no i think i really the patriarchal system is just that's silly i do i think that's silly i really do i mean look look at your situation you're hardly unsuccessful yeah and i have how do you work hard together exactly good that's okay battling is good this is all also inevitable but you talk about men fighting let me just put another thing to you from the bottom you're saying you have to battle for a high quality position well i notice in your book you talk about real conversations between men containing quote and underlying threat of physicality oh there's no doubt about that what about real conversations between women is that something are we sort of too amenable and reasonable no it's just that the domain of physical conflict is sort of off limits for you well you just said that i fought to get where i've got yeah but what does that make me well i don't know i don't imagine that you've yeah to some degree i suspect you're not very agreeable so that's the thing successful women i'm not very agreeable right yeah i've noticed that actually in this conversation at least and i'm sure it served your career well successful women though basically have to wear the trousers in your view they have to sort of become men to succeed is what you're saying well if they're going i've had to fight to succeed against men certainly masculine traits are going to be helpful i mean one of the things i do in in my counseling practice for example when i'm consulting with women who are trying to advance their careers is to teach them how to negotiate and to and to be able to say no and to not be easily pushed around and to be formidable and you need to if you're going to be successful you need to be smart conscientious and tough well here's a radical idea why don't the bosses adopt some the male bosses shall we say adopt some female traits so that women don't have to fight and get their sharp elbows out for the pay rises it's just accepted if they're doing the same job they get the same pay well i would say partly because it's not so easy to determine what constitutes the same job but almost because arguably there are still men dominating our industries our society and therefore they've dictated the terms for so long that women have to battle to know that that's not true so for example well i can give you an example very quickly so i worked with women who worked in high-powered law firms in canada for about 15 years and they were as competent and put together as anybody you would ever meet and we were trying to figure out how to further their careers and there was a huge debate in canadian society at that point that was basically ran along the same lines as your argument is that if the law firms didn't use these masculine criteria then perhaps women would do better but the market sets the damn game it's like and the market is dominated by men no it's not it's not the market is dominated by women they make 80 of the consumer decisions that's not the case at all if you're talking about people who stay at home looking after children by and large they are still women so they're going out doing the shopping but that is changing they make all these what are the obsessions okay so what a market is driven by women not men is it not desirable to have some of those female traits you're talking about i'd say that's a generalization but you've used the words female traits is it not desirable to have some of them at the top of business i mean maybe they wouldn't they don't predict that banking crisis they don't predict success in the workplace the things that predict success in the workplace are intelligence and conscientiousness agreeableness negatively predicts success in the workplace you're saying that women aren't intelligent enough to run these top companies no i didn't say that at all you said that female traits don't predict success but i didn't say that intelligence wasn't i didn't say that intelligence and conscientiousness well you were saying female traits not saying that at all are women less intelligent than men no not no they're not no the the data on that's pretty clear the average iq for a woman in the average iq for men is identical there is some debate about the flatness of the distribution which is something that james damore pointed out for example in his memo but there's no difference at all in general cognitive ability there's no difference to speak of in conscientiousness women are a bit more orderly than men and men are a little bit more industrious than women but the difference isn't big feminine traits why are they not desirable at the top it's hard to say i'm just laying out the empirical evidence like we know that we know the traits that predict success but we also know because companies by and large have not been dominated by women over the centuries we have nothing to compare it to it's an experiment true and it could be the case that if companies modified their behavior and became more feminine they would be successful but there's no evidence for it i'm not neither doubtful nor non-doubtful there's no evidence why not give it a go as the radical the evidence suggests well it's fine if like if someone wants to start a company and make it more feminine and compassionate let's say and caring in its overall orientation towards its workers and towards the marketplace then that's a perfectly reasonable experiment to run my point is that there is no evidence that those traits predict success in the workplace [Music] you got in trouble for refusing to call trans men and women by their preferred personal pronouns no that's not actually true i got in trouble because i said i would not follow the compelled speech dictates of the federal and provincial government i actually never got in trouble for not calling anyone anything right that didn't happen i wouldn't follow the change of law which was designed once it was law discriminating no no that's what they said it was designed to do okay you cited freedom of speech in that why should your right to freedom of speech trump a trans person's right not to be offended because in order to be able to think you have to risk being offensive i mean look at the conversation we're having right now you know like you're certainly willing to risk offending me in the pursuit of truth why should you have the right to do that it's been rather uncomfortable well i'm i'm very glad i put you on the spot well i'm great you get my point it's like you're you're doing what you should do which is digging a bit to see what the hell is going on and that is what you should do but you're exercising your freedom of speech to certainly risk offending me and that's fine i think more power to you as far as i'm concerned except you haven't sat there and i'm just sorry i'm just trying to work that out i mean ha gotcha you have got me you have got me i'm trying to work that through my head yeah yeah it took a while took a while it did yeah it took a while you have voluntary you have voluntarily come into the studio and agreed to be questioned a trans person in your class has come to your class and said they want to be called that's never happened and i would call them she so you would so you've kind of changed your channel no no no i said that right from the beginning what i said at the beginning was that i was not going to cede the linguistic territory to radical leftists regardless of whether or not it was put in law that's what i said and then the people who came after me said well you must be transphobic and you'd mistreat a student in your class it's like i never mistreated a student in my class i'm not transphobic and that isn't what i said well except you've also called trans campaigners authoritarian haven't you i mean isn't that only in the broader context of my claims that radical leftist ideologues are uh authoritarian which they are you're saying someone who's trying to work out their gender identity who may well have struggled with that had quite a lot of time struggles you're comparing them with you know chairman mao who no just saw the deaths of millions of people just even if the activists you know they're trans people too they have a right to say these things yeah but they don't have a right to their whole community compare them to chairman mao you know i could pinochet or gusto punisher i mean you know this is grossly insensitive i didn't compare them to pinochet well i did compare an authority he was an authoritarian he was a right-winger though i was comparing them to the left-wing totalitarians and i do believe they are left-wing totalitarians under mao millions of people died right i mean there's no comparison between a mao and a trans activist is there why not because trans activists aren't killing millions of people the philosophy that's guiding their utterances is the same philosophy the consequences aren't yet you're saying that trans activists no could lead to the deaths of millions of people no i'm saying that the philosophy that drives their utterances is the same philosophy that already has driven us to the deaths of millions okay tell us how that philosophy is in any way comparable sure that's no problem the first thing is is that the philosophy presumes that group identity is paramount that's the fundamental philosophy that drove the soviet union in maoist china and it's the fundamental philosophy of the left-wing activists it's identity politics it doesn't matter who you are as an individual it matters who you are in terms of your group identity you're just saying murder also to provoke aren't you i mean you are a provocative i never said you're like right that you hate to be compared to you want to stir things up i'm only a provocateur in so far as when i say what i believe to be true it's provocative i don't provoke

Channel: DailyWire+

Views: 1,604,130

Keywords: jordan peterson, jordan b peterson, jordan peterson speech, jordan peterson interview, jordan peterson motivation, jordan peterson gq, gq jordan peterson, jordan peterson iq, jordan peterson ubc, jordan peterson gq uk, gq uk jordan peterson, jordan peterson 2018, jordan peterson 2020, jordan peterson women, jordan peterson riots, jordan peterson debate, jordan peterson gender, best of jordan peterson, jordan peterson anxiety, jordan peterson lecture, jordan peterson protest

Id: K5f4fUDZU7o

Length: 14min 51sec (891 seconds)

Published: Sat Aug 29 2020