Jordan Peterson calmly dismantles feminism infront of two feminists

one of our guests of the day the other one today is a man you may recognize all me you don't jordan peterson has achieved that rare feat becoming a global superstar academic so how did he become so well-known he first came to national prominence in Canada in 2016 in a debate about new laws on gender identity bill c16 made it an offence to refuse to call someone by their chosen gender pronoun Jordan Peterson argued that this would infringe free speech for some supporters of the bill said he was advocating prejudice from there his YouTube star took off and he has now over 1 million subscribers and his videos where he talks everything from identity politics which we've touched on to the Bible to Disney movies have been viewed over 150 million times gosh that's about the same number of views we have on this program ha last year he supported X Google employee James day more who had been fired for suggesting men and women have different interests due to biological differences and his latest book 12 rules for life has taken him on a global tour promoting his ideas and just this week he sold out the 1,000 seater Immanuel center around the corner here in Westminster so Jordan you've done endless interviews you've been publicizing if you've been publicizing your book and they've generated plenty of heated debate now Ashley saw dealt the Apollo it had 5,000 seats alright stop boasting do you think though because of the heat that has been generated that your views have been misrepresented at times oh definitely but that's you know that's part and parcel of the process I did take a very forceful stance let's say against some of the excesses of the radical left wingers and it's in their best interest to paint me as somehow a figure of the extreme right because then I don't have to be contended with but I mean it's easy for people who used to be oversimplified in a very large public debate I mean in terms of some of the issues I mean you say you've been painted as an extreme right winger and some people have tried that not very successfully but they've tried it and you came to prominence in part over your opposition to this law that we just talked about in Canada proposing the use of preferred pronouns for transgender people just the clan dating them yeah right so what you should do no but you had to do it right you had to do it by law but just the clarity do you think a trans woman is a real woman I don't really like the way those questions are formulated you know I don't know what that means what you mean a real woman well mostly in your mind you know depends what you think a real woman is but do you think a trans woman is a woman no why not because I think that women are capable generally speaking of having babies and they have female genitalia and they have an X X chromosome and and I think the biological markers are relevant it doesn't necessarily mean that I don't think that people should be treated with respect and dignity if they happen not to fit easily into a gender category that's a different issue right but it's a matter of definition and and I actually think it's a foolish argument in some sense because what do you mean by real well I mean you've just clarified that though you-you-you don't think that a trans woman is a woman and do you do you think that that is what is behind or explains your opposition to this idea of a law mandating you to use an odd pronoun is because you don't actually believe that that's the truth that a trans woman is a woman and therefore you can't use that Pro no that's not my argument yeah really it is that voluntary speech no but I know what your argument is I know but it is very early but there's little motivation is my motivation behind it but you don't believe would I put everything on my lot online in my life to take the stance I did unless I had thought that through very deeply and I've thought it through very deeply there aren't hidden motivations that have to do with some arbitrary prejudice against trans people okay it's purely pure and simply this there's never been a time in English common law history where the government compelled speech and the Canadian government dared to do that and that was unacceptable and they masked it with this show of of compassion for the oppressed and I don't buy it right but you would as I think you said as an individual level if somebody asked you if you know somebody asked you to use a particular pronoun you would do so might have you have yeah that's fine yeah let's talk about feminism are you a feminist no not as it's currently find certainly not know well in any other definition well I think that anybody who doesn't think that the competitive landscape should be opened up for equality of opportunity is not thinking and so everyone's interests are better served if people have as equal access to opportunity to display their talents and to manifest their talents in the world as possible so in that sense certainly but feminism now as far and this is why it's so deeply unpopular a very small minority of women in the UK identify as feminists and the reason for that is it's primarily become an ideological weapon and it's an ideology that I don't I detest actually the ideology that is associated with collectivist ideology right I mean okay and that's your view about feminism are you sure you were feminist oh absolutely I'm a very proud feminist and when I was a special adviser in government I worked on women and equality issues and I was very proud actually of a piece of legislation I got on the statute book with my former boss Harriet Harman the Equality Act in 2010 which strengthened our anti-discrimination laws and I fought very hard to get more women into public life into the labour party and yeah and yeah I'm very very proud to be an offence hence my pink dress well all right officially reverting to tight then absolutely very well you would like men to regain or reclaim their strength physically mentally and morally is that broadly correct I would say morally fundamentally but I think the other things go along with that right but it isn't men precisely who I'm who I'm speaking to it's it's people I'm a clinical psychologist I'm actually interested individuals and I'm interested in their fortification against tragedy you know every time I do an interview the interview is always political it's always political well the glue is in the talk I'm not casting at this program but the fundamental news that's important about what I'm doing isn't the political element and the people who talk to me don't talk politically they say they've watched my lectures opponent is sorry is that I think for a lot of people the kind of personal does become the the the the political or the political becomes yeah and I think in terms of this situation a lot of people are wrong because primarily what's happening is people are watching my lectures and as a consequence their lives are improving dramatically oh I'm sure I'm sure they are I'm sure people are like I've had a huge conversion after no matter here was not a conversion but what I would like to do is is kind of almost I think at the moment the discussion about feminism is very divisive and it sometimes it can sort of be like okay men have to lose and women have to gain actually everybody has a lot to gain by greater equality now whether you get the equality of outcome that you want I think only time will tell but certainly equality of opportunity is is very important and actually it can you grow longer and a lot of men would would benefit from that so I think a lot in men men are having a lot of crises at the moment in terms of mental health suicide issues and their own sense of identity because I think some of the stereotypes put on men are quite limiting for them as well I think they make men quite unhappy as well The Devil's in the details with regards to equality because I'm an advocate of equality of opportunity but outcomes that's an appalling doctrine well why well because you have to produce an unbelievably potent Burak bureaucracy to make the ever greater and ever finer distinctions that are necessary to enforce equality of outcome how many group differences are you going to equalize across is it just gender and sex how many genders gender and ethnicity how many genders how many ethnicities how many races I think what people are trying to do with this and certainly as somebody who you know has looked to do sort to sort of do this myself I think you set yourself ambitions for what you would like to see and then you try and remove as many of the structural barriers and obstacles so you try and create that you know fair crack of the whip and that equality of opportunity to see where you get to with the outcomes that's now we are in very early stages it's only a hundred years since you know women got the vote in this country you know we have had a long-established patriarchal society and set up for a long time in the world in this country so I think we have a long way to go to see where it plays out there is no country in the world where you know we really do have gender equality properly yet in terms of just real decision make and and real some of the Scandinavian countries but they're still not quite there and I think we were spoken a lot but let's ask Antony there's still a way to go in Scandinavia things are not perfect one scenario that specifically I've spoken about the right stuff yesterday talked about this well spoken about the fact that see one of the things that's happened in the analysis of the differences between men and women is that the social constructionist claim is that the differences are socially constructed right is that it's a consequence of environment that men and women differ but what the scientific literature indicates is that as cultures become more egalitarian like they have in Scandinavia the differences between men and women actually increase rather than decreasing which is a direct repose to the social constructionist view so they just deny all that the biggest difference is in the world in interest in temperament are between scandinavian men and women it's exactly the opposite of what everyone predicted come on I just pick up on one thing you said a little earlier in the interview which you said it's the moral guidance that you are are focused on you think that is particularly important how do you square that with the behavior of perhaps arguably you know prominent alpha male President of the United States Donald Trump when his behavior I mean he is accused of having an affair with a porn star when his wife was pregnant how does that fit with morally reclaiming say that was rather clearly immoral right yeah you know it's not to be a target for emulation for him over it's just table and I said I might have voted for him on a whim that's what you also [ __ ] you started out feeling quite closer to Americans I just come on very quickly cuz he's got to move on in a way I get to Europe I don't care what Trump does in terms of his private life but what I don't have is him stopping or potentially stopping other women having agency over their reproductive rights and lots of men taking those decision it's all about where the moral outrage lies and what's more morally outrageous in in people's eyes is it his behavior or the identity politics for you on that anyway we'll have to discuss this another time jace what do you think

Channel: RobinHoodUK

Views: 16,474,926

Rating: 4.7148371 out of 5

Keywords: Jordan Peterson

Id: Ddzf9Mm4hdY

Length: 11min 26sec (686 seconds)

Published: Thu May 17 2018