Graham Hancock: Banned From Pyramids, Joe Rogan Debate, and Antarctica’s Hidden Jungle

we're almost at the edge of history when we go to 11 600 years ago that's the date that got Beckley Tepe in Turkey is built that weirdly is the date that Plato's Timaeus and critius gives for the submergence of Atlantis archaeologists roll their eyes at any mention of Atlantis Flat Earth for archaeologists yeah yeah I want to talk about Antarctica I was very interested in Antarctica but there's undoubtedly a tight when Antarctica was Lush and greed the question is was it Lush and green during the lifetime of the human species yes he did know that other pyramids had their entrance in the North Face and that is the entrance through which you will have gone when you entered the Great Pyramid it's called mamoon's hole I'm doing a debate with a leading archaeologist on The Joe Rogan Experience it's a very good thing that this is happening the mainstream is normally said now we don't want to talk to you guys your Looney Tunes we're not going to give you a platform but in this case it is happening I have things to say but I'm going to preserve my ammunition it's on psychedelics particularly on Ayahuasca I have felt the presence of the entity that I call Mother Ayahuasca she took the form of an enormous serpent who wrapped self around my body felt enormously comforted and again I got a message that I've had many times is that you won't be good at giving love to others if you don't love yourself what's up everybody and welcome to flagrant and today we're incredibly excited because we're sitting down with the Godfather okay Godfather of my YouTube rabbit holes for the last maybe five years six years yeah years beyond that we have grand Hancock thank you for having me on the show no thank you I actually went to see the pyramids because of you I'm very glad to hear that it was uh it was a mind-bending experience and when was that this is God what exactly was this four years ago pandemic kind of makes things there's like three little murky maybe three but it was pre-bendable they use the plateau and those those three massive pyramids and the satellite fair is an amazing place and the Great Pyramid itself is totally utterly unique extraordinary and and special I have a I have a long relationship with the Great Pyramid I saw I saw this unbelievable story of you going to the top I tried to get I got like a quarter of the way up by myself and I was there with my wife and I was like I'm not trying to get arrested yeah and have her just be alone in Egypt and so I put it out and I went back down probably it was decision because you could have spent some year or two in jail wow really oh yeah yeah wow did you get locked up when you went up top no the the the illegal crimes that we did the first the first illegal climb involved four o'clock in the morning and a lot of bribery um how much how much was it back in the day together this was like 1996 might even have been earlier it might have been 1994. and um we had we had a local guy who made contact with all the guards around the pyramid we paid him money I forget the exact amount he said he'd paid them off but then when we got to the base of the pyramid we had to walk all the way around it which is a considerable distance 750 feet along each side we had to walk all the way around and then we had to add more money to each of the guards at the Four Corners um and then we went up and my advice to anybody who's climbing the Great Pyramid which is pretty much impossible these days either legally or legally as go up the southwest corner because the southwest corner is pretty intact it's pretty much a straight line you can follow it all the way to the to the what is the entrance on North Side that's North yeah so South yeah Southwest yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah which is the opposite side to the Great Sphinx and um and then nobody's looking at you well it's it's good for them but then after we were we were a few courses up but another guard turned up with a shotgun I don't think it would have reached us from that distance but there were threats and we had to promise to pay him more more money so he points the shotgun yeah kind of threatening you yeah you guys go we'll pay you and he's like okay well now you can basically yeah we did a deal that we'd pay him when we came down and did you yeah we did yeah okay yeah yeah it's good to keep your promises and then and then we climb how much you paid I actually don't um but but back in back in the day 19 I guess it was probably 1994. it would have seemed a lot to me at that time but it was also but it also seemed seemed worth it it was a fantastic Adventure uh starting starting in the in in the dark or the just the beginning of dawn light and and you know climbing up to the top taking shelter at various points behind bits as as other guards appeared finally getting finally getting to the top um and then the light coming up and just this Majestic Majestic View Sunrise yeah sunrise on top of the Great Pyramid and the second pyramid you know to yourself it's just an amazing it's an amazing thing to see and it's an amazing experience I would regard it as one of the peak experiences of My Life um I did have one other illegal climb which was just fortunate it was um following the the holiday of Ramadan they have um they have a thing called the Eid which is a celebration and they were I would guess there were 30 000 kyrenees on the Giza Plateau having picnics and they just decided they were going to climb the Great Pyramid not all 30 000 but several hundred of them and we just joined them me and Santa and we and we climbed we climbed with them and that's one that actually is one of the moments when I realized how difficult the Great Pyramid must have been to build because because the biggest danger climbing up there with several hundred people on the pyramid was other people coming up and down so imagine managing that with all the blocks with all the blocks and and supposedly a huge Workforce and ramps or whatever the egyptologists imagined was done and I don't believe anybody knows how it was done uh for me that was the the biggest risk was people bumping into you people going around you as you as you climb as you're climbing up um but again we we got to the top and then I had three legal climbs in those days when those were allowed doing various filming projects back in when do you see your last name inscribed in the block I think this is an incredible story yes it is I think it was I think it was on the second or third climb I'm not absolutely sure I think it may have been one of the legal type claims because it was Daylight and we were relaxed uh as we were not when there were hundreds of other people up there with us so I think it may have been it may have been one of the legal crimes and and there I did see and it's on the south side of the uh of of the Great Pyramid the South the the the south east side overlooking the Boat Museum which used to be there um and there was the name um the initial p and Hancock um and at that time there was a date beside it and that date if I recall correctly was the 5th of April 1916. um oddly enough 1916. yeah now my my granddad was was a chaplain with British forces um in Egypt in the first world war so I had to consider the possibility that it could be him he was called Philip Hancock oh wow um but I couldn't absolutely guarantee that and and I was able to confirm it by by finding my grandfather's Diaries um which were little diaries about that tiny little writing in them and um on that date the the there was a single line which said climbed Great Pyramid today wow and then I found it was dated in 1916. yeah yeah and then I found his uh his biography which was passed down to me by by my dad and um he also talks about his climb of the Great Pyramid in that although in very spare terms doesn't doesn't say that much about it when I mean I know it's not that much that he put in there but did he say it was there was any security range totally free-range and I think the sound was definitely cleared away at that time but but anybody could climb the Great Pyramid and and there was in fact the guy who organized our first illegal climate I think I can say this safely because he's passed on to the next world was a guy known locally as champion and he was called champion because he was the champion Runner of the Great Pyramid he could run all the way to the top of the Great Pyramid there were times people did that and it was totally legal and nobody nobody objected to it at all um and that went on I think certainly through the sort of 70s and 80s but by the time my wife Santa and I climbed 1994 for the first time I'm pretty sure it was 94. um it had become it had become illegal and now it's totally illegal it's it's completely banned yeah and I don't I doubt even if a film crew would get permission to climb to climb the Great Pyramid now even like that yeah they they um they're very careful about it and one of the reasons why they're careful about it is that every year at least one person dies a client trying to climb the Great Pyramid uh people still try to climb it illegally and and as you can imagine from the bit of the climb you did you're looking at a 52 degree slope yeah so once you get up once you get up 100 150 feet above the ground if you lose it and fall it's over you're going to go all the way to the bottom yeah and it's over here in the beginning you have a lot of confidence the first few tiers of of rocks seem pretty easy they're not too bad but I can imagine you're halfway up and you start looking down and it is over if you slip totally over and also the the the the course sizes vary uh some of the some of them are really no more than sort of hip-high some of some of the courses are chest high so you've got to horses are the blocks yeah I mean the it's laid out in layers so you know it looks like a step pyramid now it looks considered it wasn't before in ancient times it was covered with facing stars and you can see some of the facings the stones are still there down at the bottom of the Great Pyramid they give you a sense of how beautiful they were and how and and how magnificently well it was made but the theory is there's no absolute proof of this that they came off during an earthquake in I believe 1301. uh and at that time it's likely that that's when the Great Pyramid lost its Summit Great Pyramid stands at the moment about 450 maybe 455 feet tall but its original height was 481 feet tall and you can calculate that from just pursuing the slope of the size up to 30 feet came off yeah yeah so it's a there's a flat platform or rather even a stepped platform on top of the Great Pyramid with with one level and then one level of another level but the calculation is very simple you just you just pursue those side lengths up to where they would meet um according to that calculation the Great Pyramid was originally 481 feet tall wow um so it lost it lost uh about 30 feet the question is was it in fact ever completed we don't know that for sure right the general view is that that earthquake brought part of the top of the Great Pyramid tumbling down as well and knocked off the Facebook and then of course it was used as a quarry that's that's what I heard yeah because it's very very useful to have all this nice Cut Stone play around and a lot of those facial stars were taken away okay so after inspiring probably tens of thousands of people to go to the pyramids like myself you managed to get banned from Egypt yes is it a real full-time ban this this is this is not clear to me we were we got to sneak in in my my we gotta we gotta do one more time there's a champion Junior though we need a carve G Hancock right next I think this would be good it's it's very uh it's very difficult to do that with a film crew however and this is when and this is when and this is when it happened uh is that we my Netflix series ancient apocalypse we wanted to film an episode in Egypt which you would have thought the Egyptian authorities would welcome um but when when they asked who is presenting the show and we said that Graham Hancock is presenting the show they said they said absolutely no way and they they would not they would not Grant filming permission let me tell you Sandra the Four Seasons in Cairo wants you to do an episode about the pyramids I promise you yeah it would it would bring a lot of interest and a lot of people but there's a rigid fixed view amongst egyptologists about the prehistory and the history of ancient Egypt questioning that questioning that gets you back okay that's the first that's the first line of defense against a critic or an alternative point of view is simply to deny them access to the side and I yeah I felt since that happened that I've had my left arm cut off yeah because Egypt has been very Central and very important to my work I I hope eventually I will I will get back in could I go as a tourist maybe right uh maybe announcements I'm coming to the motherland play the bagpipes miles that's right the life tour is coming to Glasgow okay Scotland was showing up we're also coming to Dublin Ireland was showing up and you know what we are not going to leave the north of England out Manchester we are pulling up is it man city or man united we gonna see who's in the crowd and whoever shows up more that's who I'm rooting for for the rest of my existence so make sure you make the right decision red or blue because that's what I'm rocking with afterwards okay those tickets are up for pre-sale right now code is Andrew get them fast Andrew schultz.com can't wait to see you all also thank you so much everybody who sold out the Royal Albert Hall Show in London we did that in a few hours that was unbelievable thank you so much cannot wait to do the show and that uh remarkable venue dangerous shows.com for all the tickets go get them immediately before they're gone can't wait to see you all peace did the legal climbs were they aware you had did the two illegal climbs previously yeah oh and they still gave you permission uh yeah oh well at that time at that time everything was much less sensitive everything was much less sensitive until 2015 when when I had a the beginnings of a public debate with who is regarded as the leading Egyptian egyptologist and unfortunately in that debate zahi it's it's actually on YouTube bits because there was a member of the audience present uh zahi massively lost his temper and stormed out and then uh so you won then I well I don't know but the the debate didn't happen then I gave a talk he sat sulking outside then he came back gave his talk then the audience asked questions and again bits of this were filmed and one of the audience asked him if he knew about a site called Gobekli Tepe in Turkey which is probably the most important archaeological site in the world at the moment and zahi said that he didn't know anything about it at all and that was on camera so unfortunately the man is actually enormously knowledgeable about ancient Egypt but but unfortunately he came across looking not very good and and ever since then my relationship with with him which had been okay until 2015 has been extremely negative and and when the Egyptian government are approached for filming permission which these days is done through the tourism and Antiquities permission when their approached for the film information zahi is the guy they go to and say is it okay for these people to come in and film so yeah then it's not going to happen it's it's difficult and I understand the defensiveness because when you wrap your cultural identity around something or creating something as Majestic as the pyramids feeling as if that's like being ripped away from you can really make you feel as if your identity is being taken yeah and and to be clear I would I would never wish to divorce the Great Pyramids from the ancient Egyptians uh there are a lot of wrong ideas about what I think about this yeah okay please clarify because I'm a little lazy on it um the clarification is this uh it's complicated all right but in inside the inside the Great Pyramid there are four very narrow shafts which point up at the sky two of them Point North and South from the so-called King's chamber I say so-called because no burial was ever found in it yeah there was a sarcophagus found in it it's still there but you had they had to build the chamber around it they couldn't bring it up in the funeral ceremony it's too big to get through the through the corridor so two shafts Point North and South and they do actually exit on the outside of the body of the pyramid and back in the 19th century explorers climbed up there there they go you're looking at the king's chamber King's chamber South Kings chamber North and both of those you could roll cannonballs down them from the outside and they would turn up in the king's chamber but the sub the the shafts of the Queen's chamber are more complicated until I believe it was 1872 nobody knew they were there the the inner wall of the Queen's table was completely smooth but there was a uh actually he was a Freemason called John wayneman Dixon who had explored the king's chamber and he said look there's shafts in the king's head but maybe they're shops in the Queen's chamber and he went around knocking on the walls and he found two hollow points and he broke those through you could do that in 1872 and lo and behold they opened up into these two shafts which go horizontally at first and then point up at the sky they do not exit on the outside of the pyramid they're very very mysterious the thing is that the angle of those shafts points to significant Stars four significant Stars uh in the period in which egyptologists believe that the Great Pyramid was built rkoastronomy which is a universal language one of them is the lowest of the three stars of Orion's Belt and the the constellation of Orion was identified with the god Osiris he was seen as the celestial image of the god of Cyrus so having a shaft pointing at the belt of a variety or size makes perfect sense another's point at two of the the two Northern sharks pointed two of the second polish Stars I forget exactly which ones and again they point at them in the era when the pyramids were built because the positions of stars in the sky change very slowly down the ages so from an Arceus astronomical point of view it would be absurd to disconnect the Great Pyramid entirely from the ancient Egyptians but there's a problem and that problem is the ground pattern of the three great pyramids and their relationship too it's not an accident that Orion's Belt has three stars and that the Great Pyramids are three uh and that they are positioned on the ground in anybody can see it in a pattern that looks very similar to a Ryan's Belt it's like a painter it's got his easel in front of him and his and his canvas and he's looking up at the sky and he's painting on the canvas the three stars of Orion's Belt and then he lowers that canvas down to his feet and that's what you have on the ground at geez it's that perfect it's it's that perfect but it's only perfect twelve thousand five hundred years ago roughly roughly roughly twelve thousand let's say around figure 12 000 years ago yeah these changes in the sky are actually caused by emotion of the Earth itself it's a very slow motion it's a cycle it takes 25 920 years to complete um and and um the pattern of the stars on the ground and they're the stars in the sky and the pyramids on the ground and their relationship to the 9 River and the Milky Way locks perfectly at twelve thousand about twelve thousand years ago not not on a single day but over in Epoch of of about a thousand years and then it gradually shifts out because this is a very very slow change that takes place so so you have the ground the ground saying twelve thousand five hundred years ago and you have the shaft saying four thousand five hundred years ago so one might assume that those shafts were maybe carved out at a different time potentially well yes what the way I look at it is I think the site was sacred more than twelve thousand years ago right I think ground platforms were created there it's important to remember the Great Pyramid is already built around a natural hill the first 30 feet inside the Great Pyramid is a natural Mound and there are traditions in ancient Egypt of the Primeval Mound and if you go if you enter the Great Pyramid and they may or may you may or may not have been able to do that did you get down to the Subterranean chamber I think everything was oh no we did the Subterranean was much bigger you went because they were very rough hewn chamber cut out of solid Bedrock or was it a built chamber there's the built one that we saw the Circ the is it called the sarcophagus no yes that's the king's chamber we went to the king chamber but I believe that there was another one hmm I can't remember you can see that on the screen there you can see the Subterranean chamber you see at the entrance in the North Face yeah uh no I don't think we went that far and then we went okay yeah it's about a hundred feet vertically beneath the base of the Great Pyramid wow uh and it's about 600 feet beneath the apex of the Great Pyramid wow uh and and it's cut out of solid bedrock and my view is and it's only a theory and I don't come to claim that I'm correct it's just put this forward for thought is that the original sacred site on the Giza Plateau was that natural primeval Mound beneath which the ancient ancients hewed out this enormous Subterranean chamber which is a rough it looks like a rough unfinished chamber but it has curious acoustic effects uh which are which are in themselves very interesting and then I think that people talk about it yeah yeah it's an amazing place to be and I and actually you get a resonance uh we tried an experiment with a with an opera singer um uh up in the um uh up in the king's chamber you could hear her down in the in the Subterranean chamber uh which is which is quite quite remarkable in itself but I think that was the original sacred site I think there was the the ground platforms were put in position uh and I think the ancient Egyptians finished off the job in a brilliant way uh in in a brilliant way over building and commemorating and memorizing memorizing a site of enormous significance and importance to them sorry when you say finish up I'm dumb so I'm gonna ask dumb questions when you say finished off what exactly do you theorize I think the vast majority of the Great Pyramids as we see them today were the work of the ancient Egyptians okay good I think they were building on a prehistoric foundation and it had been and it had been sacred so the point is not to take away from what age you think they build most of it you think we're just discounting that there might have been people here 12 500 years ago that also built correct because that runs against the archaeological mainstream and this is where this is where you get into the issues of geology um the issue of the Great Sphinx uh because I think again it's just my theory I don't claim I'm 100 right and everybody's got to listen to me until the egyptologist to go away I just just my view is that on the Giza Plateau were the three massive ground platforms of the three Great Pyramids the Subterranean chamber beneath what is now the Great Pyramid uh the megalithic temples the the so-called Valley Temple and this and the Sphinx Temple right beside the Sphinx and the so-called Mortuary temples these are all megalithic the stand beside the Great Pyramids those are the three little ones that are next to them the so-called satellite pyramids okay but there are there are megalithic temples when I say megalithic you're looking at structures where the largest single block weighs 200 tons these are these are gigantic gigantic blocks of stone but my particular interest right in front of the Great Sphinx is an almost completely ruined one and then just to the south of the Great Sphinx is a rather intact one uh called the valley Temple and this this Temple is again Bears evidence of being built in two stages uh because when you look at it you see that its core is made of limestone enormous Limestone blocks in the range of 50 to 100 tons each maybe more you can bring this up man in the one on the left you can see the Limestone blocks up at the top that's the original structure and I and my my colleagues and particularly Professor Robert shock from Boston University who is a geologist are of the view that the ancient Egyptians renovated a far more ancient Limestone Temple so you can see the weathering on the Limestone Temple and then you can see the granite blocks that were added by the ancient Egyptians and the puzzle of those blocks is that they are carefully cut to fit around the weathering in the Limestone core blocks so a they were respecting those limetone core blocks they weren't demolishing the mode really easily just to cut them flat you know if you've got to do this but no they didn't they carefully cut each Granite block so it would fit around the weathering pattern we'd only do that if you thought that a place was sacred you felt it was special and you were trying you were trying to preserve it likewise the Sphinx again I need to pay tribute to others I need to pay tribute to John Anthony West who was an independent egyptologist brilliant man dear friend that's one piece right yes passed away in 2018. he used to call academics quackademics he was a master of vitriol and um he he was the first to draw attention to the possibility that the Great Sphinx may also be a multi-phase monument not just a Monument built in the fourth Dynasty 2500 BC or whatever he uh pointed out that there seemed to be very strange erosion patterns they're harder to see on the fishers on the walls but on the surrounding trench they're much harder to they're much easier to see and then he brought Professor Robert shock from from Boston University who is a geologist and shock agreed that what we're looking at here in the in the fishes around the side of the Great Sphinx and to some extent on the body of the Sphinx is what's called precipitation-induced weathering it's not a flood yeah it's weathering that's caused by exposure to a very long period of heavy heavy rain for right and then you have to get into paleoclimatology when did it rain on the Giza Plateau enough to cause this level of exposure and and weathering you can see the the outer treasure the Great Sphinx is cut out of solid Bedrock they created the trench around its body and the body The Core Body was left in place I and my colleagues think that Core Body goes back 12 000 plus years it was originally in the form entirely of a lion with a massive layer nine head but then by the time that the dynastic period of ancient Egypt came along the Great Sphinx was very damaged particularly its head jutting up above the plateau and we suggest that at that time the head of the Great Sphinx was recarved into a human head wearing a classic nemes headdress of an ancient Egyptian pharaoh can you bring up quickly the Sphinx that is covered up to its neck and sand so this is what the ancient Egyptians probably were looking at yeah they they were they were looking at them at a monument cover yeah like that I mean this is there's many times during his history when that's all there was you know that was the myth that was the bit that got that got damaged and we think back four thousand five hundred years ago 2500 BC it was like that then too but it was a lion head and it was very damaged and they felt they're going to recarve it into into a human head and and it is out of proportion with the rest of the body which again does give credit to the Egyptians just I'm just trying to close you up to the Egyptian government here yeah they want you back in also the Hebrews are okay with this I think the ancient Egyptians massively venerated this site from the beginning it was it was the place of the beginning it was the place of the first time yeah a place a time that they called said Tabby and I think I think their their project was to honor and memorialize it and then this is where we get into spooky areas which the egyptologists don't like which is I'm suggesting that a body of knowledge was carried down within ancient Egyptian culture and that a certain moment came when it was decided to turn the Giza Plateau back on again and that body of knowledge was manifested in the construction of the Great Pyramids it's very peculiar that the quality of workmanship on the Great Pyramid and indeed on the other two Pyramids of Giza um is extremely high but go a generation later two generations later to the fifth Dynasty go to the Pyramid of unasat Sakara uh where where the so-called pyramid texts are inscribed inside the the so-called tomb chamber and that pyramid the exterior of it is a mess it's a very poorly built it's very poorly constructed you know you cut you look at it it just looks like a heap of stones whereas the Great Pyramid today is still a majestic a majestic structure yeah so it's as though they as though they put everything they had into this Rider replicate it but they just tried to rip it and then and then what if it's just like the Knicks where like the father did a really good job and then the next Generation just really the whole thing up yeah yeah I mean it could be it could be but it's it's it's my team right here it's a fair it's a fair point you know I mean when societies go up and down yeah and and that and that can happen but that's that's that's that's my view also with the idea of A Lost Civilization that we can have an apex and they can fall into a slump and they can come out again but is knowledge preserved and passed down through the ages yes I think it is no why wouldn't the people in the Nile Valley at that time 12 000 years ago also not be Egyptian like could they still be ethnically Egyptian at that time well I think the I I think in a way I think in a way I'm actually deeply uninterested in ethnic matters um I I'm I'm when I come to relate to and evaluate a fellow human being or a culture I'm interested in the ideas that those people have I'm not I'm not interested in their genes I think I think actually genes are vastly overrated they're the least important aspect of a human being they've been blown up into huge importance in in our culture today but I think I think skin color genes ethnicity none of these things really matter human beings are the same all over the world it's been my privilege to travel the world for the for intensely for for the best part of 40 years and whether I go to the remotest village in in the remotest corner of the Amazon or whether I find myself in New York City once I get down to talking face to face with fellow human beings they're just a fellow human being yeah just like just like me and and they have the same hopes the same dreams the same fears as every other human being so I think we make we we make too many divisions I love cultural differences cultural differences are great differences on in ideas are great but genetic differences are trivial in my view and the and and um the things that the things that divide us as human beings are far less important than the things that unite us as human beings I think maybe it's high time we recognize that so so whether the modern Egyptians are ethnically connected in any close way to the ancient Egyptians is is a matter that I regard as fundamentally unimportant they the modern Egyptians also honor own respect the the Great Pyramids yes uh and and ancient Egyptian culture and that's what that's what matters to me yeah I'm curious uh pigging back on that like how do you feel about the criticism that you've got some people saying you're racist after the Netflix well that that criticism was was because that's why we broke on we're like we hope you're racist it kind of let me down with this whole everyone's equal talk yeah that that was interesting uh the the subject of race is never mentioned in my Netflix series ancient apocalypse it's never mentioned at all but when the society for American archaeologists wrote an open letter to Netflix demanding that my documentary Series be class reclassified as science fiction they accused me of spreading racism white supremacy misogyny and anti-Semitism none of these issues are ever mentioned in the series wait what was misogynist yes I don't know and and and uh you know what for that matter was anti-semitic it's a very and and what was racist but since races since race is never mentioned but what these labels are very useful for if you shout them loudly enough oh and if your friends in the media see a nice story here and pick them up and multiply it what they're very useful for is turning people off the work of an opponent yes and that was that was clearly what went on here if you're radioactive I don't even have to debate you because you're radioactive that's right that's right that's fundamentally what went on now what did what is the reason for what was the possible they had no justification for any of the others but what was the reason for saying that I was spreading racism and white supremacy is because in a number of my earlier books I reported indigenous myths and traditions particularly from South America and from Mexico which in some cases referred to a white-skinned beard headed stranger and his companions who came after a time of Darkness after a great cataclysm bringing knowledge and teaching knowledge to the inhabitants of the country now that is not me saying that that is indigenous Traditions the view of archaeologists today is that many of those Traditions were simply made up by the Spanish conquistadors I don't think that's true there are many there are many other archaeologists who don't agree with that and think that they are true and genuine indigenous traditions and should be and should be rightly reported as such whether we're referring to Quetzalcoatl in Mexico or to viracocha in the Andes these these Traditions it's a Pan-American myth and and they're found they're not only found in in the Americas but all over the world they don't always refer to a person as white skin you know the emphasis that that's put on skin color today is a is really recent in human history it's a few hundred years old uh did the issue of white skin or black skin carry the same resonance 12 000 years ago that it carries today I somehow doubt it I doubt it very much I don't see why I don't see why it should because because the the the abuses of human rights that were taken that were that were carried out in the name of color uh are recent developments they're not ancient developments you know and and they're listening to a scale of human history recent in the scale of human history let's say let's say the last five or six hundred years some something like that they weren't they weren't really there they weren't really there before that but it's a it's a it's a huge distraction from from the major issue um they also refer to these individuals as being bearded um they often refer to there being seven of them in ancient Mesopotamia they're called the seven sages uh in ancient Egypt at the Temple of Horus at edfu they are also referred to as the seven sages uh in Ancient India it's Manu and the seventh and the seven sages who appear after the flood uh trying to restore the knowledge that was lost during the time of the flood these are indigenous Traditions same story different parts of the world same story different parts of the world it's one of the things that interests me about it what interests me about it least of all is the issue of skin color what interests me about it most of all is the issue that there there seems to be a memory of a cataclysm after which a group of people tried to preserve Knowledge from this is the Snow White myth I'm not sure she falls asleep Seven Dwarfs so the seven sages they come wake her up with the wisdom of a guy should make out with you when you're passed out I need to reread the Snow White okay it might be something there this is good yeah well well no because because myths you myths are the memory bank of our species this is what I loved about the Netflix special treating the myths as a way of passing on true information yes and uh yeah and taking them seriously not looking at these figments of imagination if we were to pass on data in fact it's way more digestible in the form of story We memorize stories if you wish to pass message if you wish to pass information to a distant future if you wish it to be preserved you wouldn't be smart to just write it down uh how can we know that our script is going to be readable by any other culture let's say 10 000 years in the future will anybody be able to read the English language who knows I I have I have no idea it's fragile an example I often give is the Indus Valley Civilization in Pakistan and India the the Indus Bali civilization nobody actually knew that it existed until it was accidentally discovered while a railway was built being built through a site now called Mohenjo-daro um in Pakistan and then they found that there were these actually very very sophisticated very complex mud brick structures on a very large scale then they began to look at it then they found that this culture had had a language a fully developed written script it's about 5 000 years old but there isn't a single Rosetta Stone that enables us to translate that script into any more recent language so we can't read that script the script exists but we can't read it so there could be all kinds of information in that script which would tell us all kinds of things about our past but it's not but it's not readable and how long ago were they thriving uh 5000 years ago wow one of the interesting things in the Indus Valley Civilization is that there there is a particular seal that has survived a seal that would have been used to stamp an imprint onto cloth or something like that it's called the pasupati seal and it shows a figure which is which is recognizable as the god Shiva uh who's of course an important deity in Indian culture to this day and and in The Vedas um and and it shows that individuals seated in a yeah there you are that's the passive party seal well what you'll see is that is that underneath the way his feet are organized is that his heels are pointed forwards uh this is a really difficult yoga position to sit like that and have your heels pointed forward you've got to kind of almost disjoint your legs in order to do that okay and the problem the problem with that is that it's an advanced yoga position it's found it's found in a seal that's 5 000 years old we have to ask ourselves how many thousands of years before that was yoga ball developed yeah do you know again there's a hint of a lost human culture in this the the posture is called mulabandasana um and uh I certainly can't do it I don't believe because what do we date modern Indian civilization back to so well since the Indus 4 000 yeah since the discovery of the Indus Valley Civilization you know we have we have to accept that civilization in in India is is at least five thousand years old the the the the largely and correctly discredited notion of an Aryan invasion of India needs to be abandoned as well yes there were multiple cultures moving moving back and forwards but Indian culture is extremely extremely ancient 5 000 years yeah yeah and and this Valley that's like a thing you'll learn about in textbooks yeah yeah you learned about it now accept it yeah but but but but what most people don't realize was nobody knew it even it wasn't lost and the language is completely independent there's no connectivity to anything nobody can nobody can connect it to anything we don't know we don't know what it was there's some there's some suggestion that it may have been dravidian peoples uh the peoples who are now found in south primarily in Southern India people of the tamils okay uh as a matter of fact my wife is is Tamil um and that's been very helpful to us but we've been researching in Southern India we did a lot of diving in so that my wife is a photographer and and a diver as I am and we did a lot of diving in Southern India so it was it was great to be able to talk for her to be able to talk in their own language to Tamil fishermen and Tamil divers and see if they'd seen any weird stuff underwater which they certainly had and they took us to diving on on structures that are a fully formed City off the uh of the town of mahabalipuram now you speak about this in the Dr Mary but I think this is really important to understand as well that most of human civilization has been organized around water right close proximity to water obviously you can fish travel Etc and as the water levels change some of those ancient cities could be completely covered yeah you've recovered some of these you've seen this is one of the things that I think is that I think is missing from our understanding of the past uh it amused me but also irritated me that that in that open letter to Netflix The Society for American archaeologists claimed that they could absolutely for certain be sure that there was no Lost Civilization during the Ice Age they knew it was a fact and if there had been any civil that they would have found it and they would have published it correct well how do they know that how did they know that there was no Lost Civilization then because uh it's really important to understand that archeology is often driven by accidental fines a lot of archeology particularly in the industrialized countries is the result of somebody building building there's a huge building project going maybe a Housing state is going to be built maybe a road is going to be built maybe a railway is going to be built uh maybe a dam is going to be built and then let's see let's call in the archaeologist to make sure that we're not going to wreck any ancient archeology while we're doing this and that's a lot of archaeological discoveries are made as a result of that right rather than have targeted inquiries the second issue with ruling out completely the possibility of A Lost Civilization is that archeology sets itself up as the sole Arbiter as to what is and what is not evidence so I and my colleagues argue that we should consider the possibility of a much older Great Sphinx as we've just been discussing uh on the on the basis of its geology I'm just going to add a more complicated point it's not only the geology the Great Sphinx points perfectly due east the sun rises perfectly due east on the Spring Equinox if you go to the Giza Plateau or anywhere else in the world on the summer Northern Hemisphere on the summer solstice you're going to see the sun rising far to the North of East go there on the winter sources you're going to see it far to the south of East but on the Spring Equinox it rises perfectly due east directly in line with the Gaze of the Sphinx the Sphinx is looking at where the sun rises at dawn on the 21st of March in our calendar now because of this wobble on the Earth's axis what is that called again the wobble it's called precession precession imagine a spinning top which is which is spinning and and is doing and it's kind of doing this and that's the viewing platform from which we observe the stars and the Sun and the Moon and everything else and obviously the changes in its orientation are going to change their orientation and that's why why we get the the um astrological ages again mainstream science snares of these things but it is a simple astronomical fact that there are 12 constellations that lie along the path of the sun which is called the ecliptic and they are the constellations of the zodiac and right now we live in the age of Pisces very near the end of the age of Pisces um it's um the simple fact that the ancient Christians uh go back about 2 000 years ah the fish they the fish was their thing uh before that it was Aries the ram ancient Egyptian symbolism at that time was very much focused on on Rams uh go back before that it's the age Taurus roughly the pyramid age that's when that's that's why if you were building a huge 270 foot long Rock human monument in the pyramid Edge you'd be more likely to make it in the form of a bull of a lion yeah of a lion because there is a time when you go back guess when about 12 000 years that you find it's the constellation of Leo that is rising behind the sun that's the that's the age of Leo just as we live in the age of Pisces that was the age of Leo and there was a time when that Monument would have looked directly at the place where the sun rises first it would have seen its own Celestial counterpart the constellation of Leo sitting on the horizon and then the sun rising beneath it so to us this uh and I I speak of myself Robert baval Robert shock John Anthony West and a few others we think it makes more sense take the geology take the astronomy this Monument has its Origins 12 000 years ago but Egypt will just say no we know these things was built 4 500 years ago uh the I'm not going to bore your audience with the details but the evidence is incredibly flimsy there isn't a single document that attributes the Great Sphinx to Cafe who is supposed to be the builder of the gray swing so there's nothing it's just opinion pure opinion uh and and we think that that they are not right to dismiss the case for a much older Sphinx and to say that so they have the they select what evidence is evidence and what evidence isn't evidence uh that's the the second thing and then the third and final thing is that huge areas of the world that have never been looked at by archeology at all or if looked at by archeology looked at only minimally of course the most important are the flooded Continental shelves and that's why Santa and I spent seven years of Our Lives frequently risking our lives uh scuba diving all around the world sea level Rose 400 feet at the end of the last ice age let's be clear it did not rise 400 feet overnight right this was a rise that was extended over a period of 11 or 12 000 years from about 21 000 years ago down to 10th it was even still Rising about six thousand years ago all over the world all over the world yeah there was a global the old world's oceans are connected and all also but but in local areas if you have a very steep Coastline the effect of the sea level rise at the amount of land it eats up is going to be a lot less than if you have a gradually sloping Coastline and and 120 feet level sea level rise on a very steep bit of coast is going to remove relatively less land whereas on a very sloping bit of Coast uh it's going to it's going to inundate much more land and the calculation is that 27 million square kilometers that was above water during the Ice Age is underwater now roughly I think that's roughly 10 million square miles I can't do the math in my hand but something like that it's an awful lot of land I think it's Europe and China added together uh there it's it's not that there's been no archeology done on the Continental shelves I think we're looking at something from Alexandria here yes yeah we are we are I've dived there as well um and and that's um that's inundated not because of sea level rise but because of subsidence of the Nile silts uh off the the Alexandria stands on the Nile Delta and the the silt subsided and resulted uh the Nile carries a lot of silt with it a lot of Earth with it as it flows out of Uganda and out of Ethiopia and northwards into Egypt and you come to the Nile Delta and all that Earth it's carrying which also provided the fertility of ancient Egypt all that silt is then dumped in the Nile Delta and there were constructions were made on top of it and those that the the submergence of the sites off Alexandria which is a magical spooky place to dive by the way I've been lucky enough to dive there the submergence of those sites is largely because of subsidence of land rather than sea level rise because it's relatively recent those those so if you're saying the silt itself has dropped yeah yeah right guys I'm in different clothes why is that because we were able to add another special taping at White Oak Music Hall I'm fighting to get everybody and I appreciate the demand so much so tickets are being released today the day this comes out 10 a.m Central Standard Time That's Texas time so hurry up and buy the tickets Please I appreciate the demand so much I want to get everybody in that I can also speaking of adding shows we are adding shows at Zanies in Nashville July 14th and 15th the 13th is sold out uh I believe I'm gonna be in Huntsville on the 12th uh also I got a bunch more shows please check the website because tickets are selling out for these shows and I don't have time we got to get back to Graham Hancock but thank you guys so much Akash sync.com hurry up and cop also guys if you need tickets to a show that might happen to be sold out uh again my special taping is an example you know where you can find them seat geek look at that Akash sing tickets and what's even better is sea geek will tell you how good or bad a deal is whatever tickets you need if you see a Green Dot next to the ticket price that means it's good you should buy it red means don't buy it yet hold off something is something better is coming no other ticket app is doing this for you SeatGeek is where it's at there are 28 million downloads on sea kick it's the number one rated ticket ticketing app for a reason and there are 70 000 events listed every single day that includes concerts sporting events music festivals and more also if you need to enter Schultz tickets wherever you are on the globe see geek might be able to help you why don't you look at that and just because we at flagrant always come through for you we got a code use flagrant for twenty dollars off tickets at seat geek again that's 20 off your first purchase with the promo code flagrant make sure you do that right now just download the secret gap on your phone buy your first tickets use a promo code flag and get 20 bucks off now let's get back to the show why is it spooky place to die um well because you're coming across statues underwater you're coming across columns underwater it's it's it's it's the the visibility is not perfect it's a little bit kind of weird um and and it's just magical in that diving diving on an underwater city but I cannot claim and I do not claim that that city is 12 000 years old no it's not but I do claim that in connection with a giant stone circle called uh of akajima in the caramel Islands in Japan uh which is 30 meters under sea level where there has been no land subsidence where you can calculate that it's been underwater for 12 000 years um I I do absolutely claim that terms of the the enormous structures that lie off the coast of mahabalapuram in Tamil Nadu in southeast India a little further south there's a huge u-shaped structure underwater there that Santa and I dived on with a team from the National Institute of oceanography in India there are you have to be careful when you look at underwater structures you have to look at all the conditions that have led to their submergence and and in some cases it's very clear that they've been underwater for a very very very long time indeed Malta which we featured in the in in ancient apocalypse when you went to Montreal did you go Malta is the one that's divided there's like an active civil war going on right no no no not for a long time no but it's there's like a Turkish side and then a Orthodox Christian side and they're basically like a border that they just kind of built no not and I think it's Cyprus it could be okay it could be Cyprus Malta is a wonderful tax Haven and good place to shoot but Malta used to be joined to Sicily during the Ice Age Moulton wasn't an island it was part of the Mainland yeah part of toe of Italy Sicily all the way out to Malton was all above water generally Ice Age and all underwater now so one of my interests as a diver was is what do we find underwater in Malta and what you find strikingly underwater in Malta is a repetition of the so-called cart ruts that you find above water in Malta as well which have never been proposed yes they're they're parallel tracks that are cut into the Bedrock on the island of Malta and they look actually like railway tracks yeah I'm not claiming they were a railway but they look like they look that's just a comparison and they're even Junctions in them uh and and nobody knows what they are they the word cartruts is what they're called but the notion that they would cut gradually cut out by carts being rolled over them doesn't make a whole lot of sense it looks like they've been cut by hand but more interesting is the fact that they continue underwater and we've dived on those card reads down to 27 meters which is 1890 feet maybe wow and underwater maybe another water for thousands and thousands of years and so so the so then the issue becomes are we secure on The Dating of all the structures above water on Malta and and I suggest strongly that we're not yeah there's been very little very little carbon dating done on the Maltese temples um and and that carbon dating is itself uh insecure I'm I'm doing a debate with the leading archaeologist uh on The Joe Rogan Experience on the 24th of October that's his thing yeah it's a very good thing that this is happening it's the first time that somebody representing the alternative point of view has actually been debated by somebody from the mainstream the mainstream is normally said now we don't want to talk to you guys your Looney Tunes we're not going to give you a platform but in this case it is it is happening and um I have things to say about Malta that I'm going to preserve my ammunition for yes can you give us a taste can you give us a little taste uh it's to do with the absolute insecurity of the carbon dating okay do you think there's any submerged pyramids um to finish that point carbon dating by the way and again this is not something that everybody knows carbon dating can only date organic material it can't date um stone stone so so if you're going to date a megalith according to the organic material found around you you want to be pretty sure that the organic material dates from the same time as the megalith and wasn't introduced later right and there's no way in proving that it is or it is difficult yeah it's very it's very it's very difficult to do and the fact is there there are very few common days from Malta and the new dating work that's been done there hasn't added usefully to that database and when are you doing this on uh Joe's pod so 24th of October um and uh the the archaeologist who's going to debate me is called Flint Dibble um he's American but he teaches at the University of Cardiff in Wales in Britain his father was a famous archaeologist called Harold Dibble um and uh Flynn Flint has been very um pointed and aggressive in his attacks on me following the Netflix show which has every right to be um I had wanted to debate another archaeologist who's called John hoops from the University of Kansas because he has been by far the most obnoxious in these leveling these ad hominem attacks against me and and straw man attacks like Hancock says this Hancock says that when Hancock doesn't say either this or that you know but if you again if you say it enough uh it begins to have an effect and I I would have liked to have brought called John Hoops to account um and and invited him to debate me but unfortunately he backed out and he wouldn't he wouldn't do it Flint Dibble and this is genuine Flint Dibble has had some health issues I won't go into the details and we've not been certain until very recently whether he will be able to make it um but kudos to him it looks like he is going to make it and what he's doing and what I'm doing on the 24th of October is we're both putting our reputations this is a Pay-Per-View event High six this is a high stakes issue for both me and him because you know anything can happen in a debate and uh I I certainly intend to make sure that I'm properly prepared I'm sure he's going to make sure he's properly prepared I hope we can end up hugging each other and and finding some common ground rather than all of this hatred yeah okay now sorry there's one question I'm sorry but you as Society got more advanced in this time yeah it seems we have less and less dependence on astronomy astronomy but I'm thinking four thousand five years ago to now it just kind of fills in the blanks of what we couldn't figure out on our own so 12 000 years ago if there's a really Advanced civilization why would astronomy play as big of a role in them where everything is pointing to X Y and Z Star well first of all let's let's consider what we mean by Advanced what is it what is an advanced civilization are we really an advanced civilization do we look around much about culture that we would say that's we believe that that is Advanced and and that is one of the mistakes in looking for a quote unquote Advanced civilization in the past is that we tend to be looking for ourselves in our past whereas it's possible for a civilization to be advanced in other ways we could not um measure longitude very important issue if you're a navigator and a sailor we could not measure longitude until 1760s 1750s and sometime in the second half of the 18th century it took the creation of a very precise Marine chronometer in order to be able to calculate what your longitude is otherwise in the middle of a stormy night you could find yourself 300 miles west of where you thought you were and crashing into a coastline it's really good thing to no longer tune there was a I mean a million pounds in the 18th century was a lot of money there was a million British pounds prize for cracking the longitude problem uh and it wasn't until the the second half of the 18th century that it was solved wow so it's weird that on ancient maps copied from even more ancient source Maps there are precise longitudes precise relative longitudes this is one of the things that that suggests to me that that a civilized the second thing is those Maps show the world as it looked during the last ice age thirdly and most important they show Antarctica our civilization didn't discover Antarctica until 1820. so if I find a map from 1520 showing Antarctica where the map maker informs us that he based his map on much older Source maps that were falling to pieces and that he know that that will fall completely apart he's preserve the information in those maps on his Maps he's copying from older and there is Antarctica so did they just make it up that's what the sun that's why do we still called Antarctica that was another thing I was like well opposite of the Arctic yeah but it's I just if we that's very reason it's like bro he called it Antarctica look at the map you're gonna call it the same you know what I mean yeah we call it Antarctica they used to call it Terror astralis the southern land um if you'd go for the aronteus Phineas map for example um you'll find a much better uh a much better yeah I thought that map said Antarctica that's very good yeah okay I actually am really excited that we're talking about Antarctica yeah yeah Antarctica is an interesting this is my newest rap it's one of those it's one of those great ones you see there's Antarctica that's their Auntie's finish right there's there's South South Africa um uh um there's Antarctica and there's the tip of South America almost touching Antarctica it's a bit bigger than it is today but it would have been like that during the last ice age that's a map from 1531 and and what they're saying in the legend it is that here in this map I expose regions that neither you DOCSIS nor I forget the names of all the ancient maps none of them knew about it they were hidden in darkness but here they are um hidden in darkness I suggest they're hidden in darkness on on um ancient maps that Durante is Phineas copied from Wow uh the very it's a it's an anomaly that it's sitting there uh and and it's not good enough to say that those map makers just wanted to balance the world so they put a fantasy continent there which later turned out to actually be there right that's roughly what that what they're saying now so so uh that suggests to me a culture that was capable of exploring and mapping the Earth during the last ice age the second issue uh is precisely astronomy it's ancient knowledge of precession uh which again our culture attributes to the Greeks roughly between 300 BC and 100 BC this must have been the the discoverers of um precession um precession is very hard to observe of it's a in a single lifetime it's a fraction of an inch on the horizon the the change so you have to keep records over long periods of time you have a system that preserves those records and passes them down so it's the it's it's the knowledge of precession that is manifested in in ancient mythology uh and in ancient traditions often Traditions that speak of a global flood The Vedas themselves contain numbers that are related to that are related to precession again I don't want to get too boring but but procession proceeds at the rate of one degree every 72 years and this is the key number that is found in ancient mythology around the world and variations of that number so 72 plus 36 is 108 108 is another processional number 108 divided by 2 is 54. that's another processional number that's why on the bridge at Angkor Tom in Angkor in Cambodia you have 54 figures on either side of the bridge and what are they doing they're hauling on the body of the serpent vasuki who is wrapped around Mount mandera and they are churning the Milky ocean the argument is that this is a symbol for precession that is that is taking place there and the numbers are are multiplied another example I often give is the Great Pyramid itself and it's very important I made this point at the beginning it's very important that when people want to check this calculation that they use the true original height of the Great Pyramid the 400 81 feet that it would have risen to rather than its rather stunted 450 plus feet today when you use the true original height of the Great Pyramid and multiply it by 43 200 you get the polar radius of the Earth and when you measure the base perimeter of the Great Pyramid and multiply it by 43 200 you get the equatorial circumference of the earth now why does 43 200 matter it's 600 times 72. it's another precessional number it's a number generated by the processional motion of the Earth itself and there we enter a very a very clever piece of work Great Pyramid is almost perfectly aligned to true north it's within three sixtieths of a single degree of True North it's it's an error but it's really good when you look at a monument on that scale six million tons 481 feet tall ah you know and you get it within 360s of a degree of of True North you are uh doing very accurate work and you're saying something else I think they figured that out back in the day oh yeah definitely you used astronomy they used astronomy to figure it out and but no that they messed up a little um I think they did the best they could I think they did the best they could we also also take accounts of movements of the Earth itself so it might have been right at the time it might have been there might have been a slight shift in the tectonic plates underneath I'm not sure but but the fact is it's 360 it's off now okay um what it does tell us apart from the level of accuracy is that when they made that Monument they wanted to lock it in to the to the key cardinal directions it's perfectly True North perfectly true South perfectly true East perfectly true West within 360th of a single degree then the cardinal directions of this planet mattered to them they were um speaking to the Earth with that Monument secondly it's located on latitude 30 degrees north give or take a a few seconds of Arc and latitude 30 degrees north is one third of the way between the Equator and the North Pole okay so that's not an insignificant latitude it's a significant latitude it seems like the monument is speaking to the Earth and then we find that it encodes the dimensions of the Earth on a scale provided by a key motion of the Earth itself namely the Earth's precession operating at the rate of one degree every 72 years multiply that by 600 you get 43 200 that's the scale the pyramid is built on 1 to 43 200 so it's a monument that speaks to the earth that is aligned to the cardinal directions of the earth and that encodes the dimensions of the Earth on a scale defined by the Earth itself and nobody would object to this at all uh nobody nobody that I know of once they get the measurements right and realize that they're not dealing with a 450 foot tall Monument but a 491 foot tall money but nobody nobody disputes that that pie the the which is used to calculate the diameter of and circumference of a circle is built into the Great pyramid this is broadly accepted by egyptologists it's just that they regard it as a coincidence and your theory is also that the ancient Egyptians did this right because you said they did most of the work yeah yeah I think they did I think it was I think it was finished off you you define the very moment you start building that 52 degree slope into all the sides you're defining what the Apex is going to be right that's that's there from that's there from the beginning and what was their daily ritual use for the pyramids of Visa that you theorize well um actually nobody has any idea um the Great Pyramid was sealed it was a sealed Monument so in roughly 900 A.D forgive me if I don't give you the exact date give or take 50 years um who was running Egypt at the time wanted to get inside the Great Pyramid this is 400 years before the earthquake the facing stones are still in place he could not find the true entrance to the Great Pyramid it turned out that it could have been found there was according to accounts there was some sort of almost like a button that you pressed and the and the doorway would would slide the facing studs would slide away and you could find the two engines but he couldn't find that so but he did know that other pyramids had their entrance in the North Face other older pyramids like the Pyramid of vunas he knew they had their entrance in the North Face so he started hacking away at the North Face of the Great Pyramid and that is the entrance through which you will have gone when you entered the Great Pyramid it's called mamoon's hole um he and his team hacked it out with sledgehammers and chisels and they broke their way in to the North Face and then as they were doing so they heard a block falling in a hollow space and then they knew they were onto something that block that fell caused by the vibrations that they had caused must have been in some kind of passageway or chamber so they headed towards that sound and that's where they found the the original passageway system of the Great Pyramid which after you've gone through my Moon's Hall gone around a little corner where it's all cut out of the Rock and then you find yourself going up into the first of all the ascending Corridor and then the grand Gallery which is the most majestic structure um they they found the the original entrance system in that way and now the true original entrance is open right but it's not used by by tourists for the Great Pyramid okay I want to talk about Antarctica because I think this is going to be the new obsession I feel like it's trending super high who knows if there's any truth to it but a friend of ours who will remain nameless went there yeah got to call it a cool experience trip Etc and he said a couple interesting things he said the the mountains looked eerily pointy and four-sided uh he said way more mountainous than he thought it would be I think the illusion made from looking at maps and watching Penguins you can see mountains on the orontius Phineas map version oh is that what the little edge around the edges there interesting those are mountains now he also said this he's a couple things he said there is a pact with every country that has a slice of it that they will not dig or remove any minerals from Antarctica and he even said that a scientist was there said to them World War III will not start until one of these countries breaks that pact they are clearly protecting or preserving something that may or may not be under I believe it's three miles Mark was saying earlier at its thickest of ice now Mark maybe you should describe the thing that you were saying before about there was a time where yeah reading an article that perhaps 90 million years ago there was a lush rainforest that is now covered in miles of ice on the Antarctic continent yeah that's probably true if you go if you go back that far uh you would find that um the earth's climate was very different from from how it is today and there's no there's undoubtedly a time they found fossils on Antarctica there's undoubtedly a time when when Antarctica was was Lush and green the question is was it Lush and green during the lifetime of the human species yes this is where it gets done and this is where this is where it gets tricky uh our the the the the the the homo sapiens line descends from a line that goes back about six million years not much further than that if we accept conventional evolutionary theory so six million years ago Antarctica is supposed to have been as cold and Frozen as it is today now when I wrote Fingerprints of the Gods in 1995 which is which is my first book Tracing the possibility of A Lost Civilization I was very interested in Antarctica and I was interested in it because of the work of a previous researcher called Charles hapgood Charles Hopkins wrote a number of very important books one of them is called maps of the ancient sea Kings which precisely goes into this issue of ancient maps that don't fit our understanding of what the world was how the world was supposed to be known at that time um and another is called the path of the pole and he uh proposed a phenomenon that he called Earth crust displacement whereby from time to time the entire outer crust of the earth like the skin of an orange might shift leaving the core of the Earth in place that it could like so if you imagine a very loose orange skin the fruit is inside it's staying in place but you're Shifting the skin around it well obviously then if that happens it could have been in warmer latitudes and could have been shifted into colder latitude and how often does this happen well does it happen at all is the first is the first question I mean of all the theories I've looked at and supported this is this is the one that I've come in for the for the most criticism for um and I've been much more interested recently in the younger dryas impact hypothesis and the notion that the uh that a cataclysm occurred around twelve thousand eight hundred years ago caused by impacts of comet fragments and we can go into that but when I wrote Fingerprints of the Gods although I was interested in comets I was more interested in Earth crust displacement um and and the the standard academic response to that is look Antarctica has been frozen for millions of years um and that rules out the whole Earth crust displacement argument um I think that even those who are still researching this field would prefer it to be the mantle rather than the crust of the Earth that moves again it's very technical that moves in one piece um there's a but the idea is the Italian Admiral called Flavia of barbiero who who wrote an article from my website suggesting that Earth crust displacement could be kicked off by a comet impact which hits the earth a glancing blow and and causes a shift of this kind taking place but by and large I don't I don't argue these days that uh that Antarctica and Earth crust displacement are the mechanism we should be looking at I'm more I'm much more interested in the very solidly scientifically grounded younger driest impact back to back in 1995 when I wrote Fingerprints of the Gods I was searching around for many possibilities that could have caused a global cataclysm in the range of 12 to 13 000 years ago because that's what all the astronomy pointed out 12 to 13 000 years ago and hapgud's Theory seemed to me a very valuable and useful one I still won't write it off I won't dismiss it entirely but I've shifted in the direction of um the younger driest impact hypothesis simply because I'm in a constant argument with mainstream Academia and the issue to me the most important issue to me is the issue of a global cataclysm at the end of the Ice Age what what caused that cataclysm is a secondary issue the cataclysm itself is the primary issue and I found the younger driest impact hypothesis a better much more scientifically grounded explanation for that cataclysm than the notion of Earth crust displacement but do any archaeologists or any of these uh prehistorians dispute the younger dress there's a there's still a lot of argument around it there's there's about 60 major scientists um who are involved in the comet research group they're all credentialed scientists they've all published dozens of papers in peer-reviewed journals including nature including scientific reports and many many others on the on the hypothesis but there's also a group of academics who are opposed to it and and uh dispute that any impact ever took place and then even in those who who do accept that the younger dryas was a cataclysm some think that it may have been caused by solar activity rather than by by comet impact how would that work well it would certainly it could work um at the end of the younger dryers there are two moments in the younger driest the beginning is twelve thousand eight hundred years ago it's a very strange moment in Earth history this is when um this is this is when the world's climate which has been warming up for a few thousand years the ice age is still very much present have big ice caps on North America big ice caps on Northern Europe um but it's been warming up gradually and then 12 800 years ago two things happened at once first a sudden cataclysmic drop in climate the cold it gets incredibly cold uh as cold as it was at the peak of the Ice Age more than 20 000 years ago it gets incredibly cold but then puzzlingly there's a release of water into the world ocean I say puzzlingly because when the earth is freezing you would not expect melt water to be going into the world ocean it should be staying on the ice caps and I cite the work of cesare Miliani and his work on the submergence of Bohemian corals this is how do you know that sea level Rose there are certain corals that can only exist within a certain number of feet of the of the sea surface so they need the sunlight yeah and when they drown yeah that tells you the sea level has risen and they point to a significance sea level rise twelve thousand eight hundred years ago at exactly the moment of this deep freeze the comet impact hypothesis explains that because it says that the shock at the heat of the impact of large fragments of a comet on the North American and European ice caps would have been sufficient to release that freezing water into the world ocean to cut the Gulf Stream that's the central heating system of our planet it's called the global meridianal overturning circulation it's these currents of warm and cold water that flow around the planet and they the Gulf Stream was cut and the Earth got extremely cold so I think the comet impact hypothesis does best explain that but so just real quick so comet hits yeah cuts the Gulf Stream cutting the Gulf Stream across the Gulf Stream because it releases a huge quantity of melt water from the North American ice cap almost instantaneously so the comet hits the ice yeah that is in North America yeah and Europe and Europe that water cuts the Gulf Stream because it releases all this which was frozen freezing water gotcha goes into the world ocean temperature plummets temperature plummets but at the same time there's much more potential water in the oceans so that when the temperature does rise now you have that melt water well no so no now we need to go on 12 800 years ago in the Thousand or 1 200 years after that that's a window when all the great Ice Age megaphone will go extinct megafauna are saber-toothed tiger woolly mammoths mastodons giant sloths the whole collection of of famous Ice Age megaphone they all go extinct in that window um and and clearly they didn't go extinct for no reason there's the cataclysm of the younger dryas that made the mixture have you seen the oh God what is the gentleman's name he's a guy who I believe like excavates up in Alaska for gold pretty sure it is I'm forgetting what it is right now but um they're like images of woolly mammoths who have been had like their legs completely shattered but they're intact yeah and is this a Boneyard that's been yes yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's right that that's that's very very very interesting I've not been there I've not looked into it yet so I can't speak authoritatively about it but it might speak to your opinion right there it's like what I can't say is that's at ceradia De lindosa in Colombia there is an eight kilometer long rock art panel dated to 12 800 years ago which shows these megaphone it shows it shows many of the extinct megaphone from that from that from that period um to get back to the point uh so we have this window of about 1200 years where the Earth is very cold the megafauna go extinct but then 11 600 years ago just as fast and dramatically as the Earth went cold the earth goes warm you're looking at a 10 degree rise in global temperatures in in a couple hundred years it goes a very very in geological terms very rapid and very fast and sea level rises very quickly and what is it called 11 600 years ago it's it's called melt water pulse 1B there's another collapse of the ice sheets and huge amounts of water go into the world ocean now that that could realistically be caused by a sudden burst of solar activity which melted down those ice sheets but that's not what I go with I I still prefer the notion that we're dealing with multiple bombardments from Comet fragments and in this case you're looking at a comet fragment that goes into a world ocean uh that sends up a huge amount of water vapor into the upper atmosphere creates a greenhouse effect and accounts for the warming that takes place at that time so two comets one that cool things down and when they heated things up yeah yeah any idea why one would cool down and one would heat up depends where the impact is if the impact's on an ice cap and it's releasing enormous amounts of melt water into the world ocean you're going to make the world very cold if the impacts in a world ocean and it's putting a huge amount of water vapor into the upper atmosphere it's a greenhouse effect and the world is going to get warmer it's all Theory it's not fat all what is fact is the sudden warming at the end of the younger driest of the sudden freezing at the beginning of the year control so we're searching for explanations for that we're searching for explanations I've picked the one I I back but I'm not claiming that I have to be right it's that what I do think is really important is recognizing this was a global cataclysm it was sustained it wasn't just a minute it went on for a thousand years plus uh and it's in our backyard it's in very relatively recent human history we're almost at the edge of history when we go to 11 600 years ago that's weirdly the date that got Beckley Tempi in Turkey is built 11 600 years ago that weirdly is the date that Plato's Timaeus and kritius gives for the submergence of Atlantis eleven thousand six hundred years ago before our time so what's happening to humanity in this 1200 year window I need to be I need to be clear about that yeah yeah um okay because the archaeologists roll their eyes at any mention of Atlantis even say the word Atlantis or automatically regarded as a member of The Lunatic Fringe okay uh and and if you've even said that word all your work all the 30 years of work you've done the Thousand Dives that you've done on Continental shelves all around the world yeah all of those can be written off simply because you said the word Atlanta it's it's flat Earth for archaeologists yeah yeah and they they detest now tell us why the Earth is flat well that's one Theory I definitely don't bite no no give us the Atlantis Theory so so the the story of Atlantis comes down to us from Plato it's expressed in two dialogues the Timaeus and the kritias okay Plato was writing at around 300 BC uh but it come from his uncle yeah well it's arguably from a member of his family line who was the Greek lawmaker Solon so long yeah yeah who did make a famous undocumented EG visit to Egypt around the year 600 BC and he was told in Egypt and he was at the Temple of Neath at sice in the Delta and there are these inscriptions on the walls that Temple no longer exists it's a ruin in the Delta now these writings on the walls and he asks a priest what do the writings say and the priest spoke Greek and ancient Egyptian and he told so long what the writings say that there was this great civilization that it was destroyed in an enormous flood Plato or Solon refers to it as Atlantis Atlantis is not an ancient Egyptian word it looks like some attempt to to translate into a Greek meaningful Greek phrase what was originally an ancient Egyptian phrase and that ancient Egyptian phrase uh I can tell you pretty much for sure was the homeland of the Primeval ones and I'll tell you why in a minute but but the the point is that then play Then Solon asks when did this happen and the priests say they're very relaxed about it they say oh 9 000 years ago so immediately we have a date that we can put to our calendar 600 BC he makes the visit 9 000 years before that that's 9600 BC give or take 23 years that is 11 600 years ago that's when Gobekli Tepe is built that's when melt melt water plus 1B begins to flood the world oceans and again my critics will will will niggle away at the edges of this and say well melt water pulse 1B unfolded over three or four hundred years if you average you doubt it wasn't that much in any one year but who says it happened to average rates who says there wasn't a big rise and then a smaller rise yeah these these things are very annoying um but the bottom line is nine thousand years before so long is 9600 BC that's the Atlanta State that's Quebec the tepey's date and then secondly the Temple of Horus at edfu in Upper Egypt is very important there's been I worked with a partial translation in Upper Egypt it's sort of halfway uh to to us one uh in southern Egypt it's kind of middle this one is the Quarry I believe that was the Quarry where they got a lot of the Granite that they bought there's about 500 kilometers South but Emperor's a bit further north than that um but it's also on it's also on the Nile now the Temple of Horus at edfu is a relatively recent Temple probably built around 270 BC by the ptolemaic dynasty of ancient Egypt who these were Greeks who had overtaken ancient Egypt but although they colonized ancient Egypt ancient Egypt colonized their minds and they became ancient Egyptians more ancient Egyptian than the ancient Egyptians themselves in 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calls it the homeland of the Primeval ones it speaks of a Great Serpent that comes from the sky and splits the island in two it speaks of a huge flood that arises and kills off almost all the Divine inhabitants apart from a few survivors who then travel around the world one of the places they go to is Egypt and they make their first business to build Prime Mounds in ancient Egypt that will be the places the locations of all future temples and pyramids the and food types are very clear now I I just need to make this clear because I relied on Eve Elizabeth Raymond who was an early translator of the edford texts but recently well the advertex have been completely translated every single word into German uh by by a gentleman called data and and they've translated it all into German it would be nice if it were all into English because that's much more widely spoken what does it say in Germany it supports everything in the original translation there's no there's not a single part of the original translation that's debunked by this it supports it and it adds information that wasn't there because their reference in those edfu texts to the destruction of the homeland of the Primeval ones is 7 000 years ago but that's in Middle Egyptian which dates back to 2000 BC so it goes back to 9000 BC again in 9000 BC's eleven thousand yeah it brings us it brings us to the same date so I I think that egyptologists have been too hasty to dismiss real quick so we can just understand what was said the the snake that comes down like you said the Netflix special we can look at comments as potentially snakes so this comment that comes and hits the island of Atlantis that's like a direct shot yes right yeah but so maybe it doesn't hit exactly the island but it's hitting close enough where the effects of that hit are gonna dramatically dramatically affect the island um and remember they didn't close Atlantis they called it the homeland of the Primeval and what does that mean the Primeval ones the ancient ones lived there that was there that was their Homeland whoever created the Mounds who who then they're survivors who included seven sages traveled around the world seeking to rebuild their Lost Civilization and we heard this and Egypt was one of the places they went to okay now some people say that Azores Plateau might be Atlantis have you ever been there and maybe we can describe really quickly where that is well it's in the Mid-Atlantic um and on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is interesting because because there's a there's a phenomenon called isostasy isosceles the earth's surface is a little bit fluid if you put a if you put a heavy weight on one bit of it it's like the end of a seesaw it's going to force the other bit up so in Britain um we had an ice cap on Northern Scotland but right now the Isle of Wight in the English Channel far to the South is sinking beneath beneath the beneath the ocean why is that because the ice cap on Northern Scotland pushed Northern Scotland down and lifted up the Isle of Wight since the ice Cap's gone the Isle of Wight is going back underwater you see this in the islands off of Italy like Capri yeah is starting to shift and rotate a little bit yeah this isostasy that causes that okay and and isostatic Rebound in this case and and there is some indication that the ice cap on North America may have had effect an effect on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge and may have raised it to a higher level than it was today oh so wait a minute but I'm not I I need to be clear I'm not looking for Atlantis there or anywhere I don't think there was one location every every every story in reference and I don't think we should be looking for a genetic location for it either right just as just as it would be really hard to look for a genetic location of America today the US U.S culture is a Multicultural Society those are the multi-ethnicities Society I suspect quote unquote Atlantis was like that I suspect that it was all over the world that it used that it that it occupied the best real estate on Earth the the lands that are now under a few hundred feet of water yeah caused by if we knew where it was we could at least look for some sort of remains if there were if if there was a definite Heartland for it I think we should be looking for those remains on the flooded Continental shelves all around the world and that's what I spent seven years of my life doing uh was was diving on the Continental shelves and finding again and again ruins and structures that weren't supposed to be there I think there's the whole story of humanity that's that's missing uh underwater and I would while I'm saying that I I I would like to give credit to archaeologists there is some work now being done Marine archeology which isn't any longer just looking for shipwrecks from the medieval period or even from the 20th century about the 19th century but but ship but but they're looking at the flooded Continental shelves and it's just starting this this work should have been happening for decades it's just beginning uh I think that's going to reveal a a great deal and I know it's going to reveal a great deal because I found a great deal but I want to add that the Amazon rainforest and the Sahara Desert are also underserved by archeology yes and we can't claim that there was no Lost Civilization of the Ice Age well there's so much of the world we never looked at at all especially the Sahara desert right because there could be fascinating thousands of pyramids just covered in mounds of sand right now they're really good we are finding a lot in the Amazon yes the light I work in the Amazon is is fascinating okay I wanted hope to be back in the Amazon within the next few months okay I wanna while we're talking about Amazon uh Ayahuasca yes psychics yes okay the new psychedelics yes and how they tie into these myths and these myths in ancient civilization and potentially using the knowledge or experience gained from these psychedelic drugs to maybe build these huge megalithic structures yeah um how big a role do you think psychedelics have played in prehistory well it's one of the reasons why we should never look for ourselves in the past because we've had the horrific vicious evil thing called The War on Drugs for the past 50 plus years which is gradually going away thank God you know but we've we're a culture that's hated psychedelics since the time of Richard Nixon and and um we kind of just assumed that every culture in Antiquity also hated psychedelics no they didn't they were deeply involved with with psychedelics whether you're talking about the ellucinian mysteries in in ancient Greece uh what's that it was a temple the Temple of eluses it stands just outside of Athens in Greece what's left of it um they served up a potion to all the initiatives and the initiates included Sophocles pindar Plato himself all the great minds of Ancient Ancient World went to eluses they were given this Brew which was called the kaikion then they went down into these deep Chambers underneath the temple of uses and then they had extraordinary experiences which gave them Revelations about the nature of reality they ceased to fear death they knew that they would not they knew that death was not the end they had no fear of death anymore after they'd had this experience sounds a lot like a psychedelic experience and then we have we have the work that's been done on that brew and that Brew was made we're told it was made from barley mint and water but what grows on barley is clavishep's paspali which is an LSD like uh fungus I love it which is which is which is soluble in water there is that are very dangerous but there are thus ergot what is the class of fungus to which this belongs okay uh but but and some of them are are extremely dangerous but this one is soluble in water is not dangerous and it's basically LSD they were they were they were drinking LSD in the temple of eluses and they were having Revelations about the meaning of life and they were creating great philosophy and Brilliant ideas at the time it's of course massively connected to to this surge of intellectual activity in ancient Greece but ayahuasca or even even before we get to Ayahuasca what were we discussing earlier is the pineal gland that you see represented in like um like that's the pine cones there's one at the Vatican they're pictured in in many of the Mesopotamian reliefs that show the seven sages they're holding a pine cone to somebody's head you know yeah um there there's uh a suggestion that the pineal gland it has been suggested that the pineal gland secretes dimethyltryptamine DMT DMT I I think that the more recent work on that suggests it probably doesn't but that it's a Locus for endogenous all of us have DMT in our bodies we're all illegal here yeah we're all carried we're all carriers um it's a natural brain hormone yeah uh the exact question of where in the body it's generated some people think it might be the lungs these days wherever it is uh it's there yeah and and um the pineal is associated with it in in a number of ways and it's Associated the pineal is the third eye it's the it's it's it was an eye the pineal was an eye it still is in some amphibians uh that's why it's called the third it has a lens a cornea and a retina so we've just evolved out of it yeah it's gone deeper into the brain it's no longer light sensitive but it's still it's still arguably the third eye um so so the connection of the pineal and DMT is um is not absolutely clear but there is there is likely some some kind of okay so the idea of us looking for ourselves in the past we're looking at how people build the pyramids and we're going well you know we have these uh cranes where are your cranes where are your cranes instead of looking for the things that we are not utilizing that they may utilize which are psychedelic drugs and maybe that gave them access to it's stupid to use the word Powers because I think it kind of dismisses everything but maybe they give them access to some sort of like otherworldly knowledge that could have helped them create well it's an interesting discussion actually the the interesting thing um about psychedelics one of the many interesting things about psychedelics is um for a start new evidence that's emerging from scientific studies at last psychedelics have been taken out of the closet and are being examined for their therapeutic potential and one of the things that it's very clear that psilocybin definitely does is mushrooms mushrooms yeah which is closely related to DMT it's a kind of orally edible orally ingestible form of DMT uh they um promote neuroplasticity they create they cause new neurons to grow in the brain they make us smarter let us um pay great tribute to to Terence McKenna a brilliant thinker in this field whose book whose Stone date hypothesis and his book The Food of the Gods was one of the early recognitions that that psychedelics may have been the trigger that took our ancestor out of millions of years of boredom and put them on the path that we recognize as as modern Humanity yeah it's uh it's a perfectly reasonable thing the also the way that psychedelics are very helpful with depression is very interesting um and and why is that why is that the case depression and I speak from experience because I've suffered myself from a long period of depression back in the early 90s depression is a very narrow rigid frame of mind where where you get locked into recurring patterns of thought that keep and they're very negative and you keep on repeating them to yourself and you start hating yourself and you just can't bear anything and you you're locked and you can't escape from it and what psychedelics seem to do is that they break that pattern they just break it completely and and in this case for depression what seems to work best is a massive dose rather than microdosing micro dosing is great as well you have to snap yourself out you gotta snap yourself out of it yeah there's also like I think in depressive States there's a narcissism wrapped into it not in narcissism in terms of like I'm the best look at me everything's about me but in the negative side of that it's all about you still yeah yeah yeah and that constant negative thought but taking and having a psychedelic experience will make you realize maybe how small you are yes in the grand scheme of things how you are intertwined into the fabric of humanity so it can break out of that yeah ego death will disconnect you from the universe conspiring against you yeah yeah exactly you're not that important if you belong to a species that has been making the same kind of stone tool without any changes for more than a million years two things are happening clearly cultural information is being passed down and clearly you're locked in a very narrow frame and then suddenly it changes and our ancestors start producing this extraordinary cave art this amazing cave art whether whether you're talking about that that site surrounded in in Colombia or whether you're talking about Lasco cave in France the art is stunning and it is classically psychedelic art it is it is featuring geometry patterns of swirling dots uh zigzag lines there's Serenity de landosa and there's one of the extinct Ice Age Mega fauna with the arrow pointing at it up there um the the the the geometry that's in there the swirling dots uh the the sort of interlinked chains that are sure not there on the left these are these are all classic psychedelic Visions very often in as people enter a deeply altered state of consciousness it starts with geometry and patterns and then it manifests more into entities and those entities are often therianthropic in form Greek Therian wild beast anthropos man they're part human part animal in form not something that you see every day but sometimes it's very commonly frequently common very common in Egyptian art and very very common uh in deeply Altered States Of Consciousness brought on by brought on by psychedelics is the encounter with entities who then appear to communicate with us and again this is where the archaeologists roll their minds because they like to think that uh you know Consciousness is entirely local to the brain it's all manufactured by the brain and this is just our brain on drugs whereas in fact the the the opposite seems to be true the brain seems to be acting as a receiver for Consciousness rather than as a manufacturer of Consciousness what does that mean well what it what it means is that we have to function in a in a very tough physical Universe this is this world yeah we gotta we gotta know the laws of physics even if we don't know them you know as written down in scientific textbooks we're going to know that if we bump into that wall it's going to hurt yeah we've got to understand all of that and naturally our main focus is on our physical survival in this in this Physical Realm but there but there and and what's useful for that is what what is rightly called the alert problem-solving State of Consciousness but there are many other states of Consciousness that are available to us and psychedelics unleash completely different state of consciousness from the alert problem-solving State of Consciousness and in that state of consciousness we have these extraordinary experiences and and amongst those experiences the most important are the encounters with entities that communicate with us now we have a problem in trying to decide what is what is going on here a very important project just underway at Imperial College in London and another project that's going to be launched in Colorado I think in Denver itself within this year where human volunteers I hope to be one of them in Colorado they turned me down in London because I've suffered from epilepsy since 2017. and there's no there's no indication whatsoever that DMT would cause epilepsy and I've smoked loads of dmts I know it doesn't cause epilepsy but understandably having gone through all the legal Hoops they don't want me dying in their you know in their lab yeah so so they've not accepted me as a volunteer but I'm hoping I might get accepted as a volunteer here in America what it is is extended release DMT dmtx DMT is normally so it's just gonna keep you high keep you high for an hour yeah instead of what is DMT like five minutes or five minutes ten minutes on DMT oh when you're in the DMT space it can feel like forever so an hour is almost horrifying does time management yes this is what many of the volunteers say is that is that that it's an alarming Prospect to be in that space for an hour they they're being delivered it by drip constantly in directly into their bloodstream they can signal at any time I've had enough if they're really feeling overwhelmed yeah but but by and large most of the volunteers went went through with it I I moderated the panel with five four of the volunteers anything interesting that there's a gentleman called Andrew Gallimore who's invented the technology that's going to be used in Colorado yes the very interesting thing is that all appeared to be meeting essentially the same entities they might be machine elves they might be gnomes they might be therianthropes but they're playful they're tricksy they're tricksters and they they convey knowledge and they're also moral teachers this is the funny thing they make us confront our baggage how so um well I I can say in in my case I recently had an experience with the other kind of DMT very recently which is five Meo DMT the the DMT we're talking about is nndmt okay um and that is the one that most frequently produces entity encounters um and the sense of telepathic communication with entities and who at science is not in a position to write that off you know quantum physics is looking at the possibility of multiple Dimensions very open to that possibility maybe what's happening is that our Consciousness is getting re-tuned by DMT to to gain access to dimensions of reality that are normally close to us we think reality is just this but actually it's all this and and in a deeply altered state of consciousness the need for the alert problem solving mindset is and we can open up to other to other areas of reality who knows what's what's what's going on there um but but um the the the issue is are people learning something new in this state this would touch on the question of whether psychedelics were helpful in energizing an ancient civilization and getting it getting it going um I would cite the case very well known case of Kerry Mullis uh the polymerase Chain Reaction PCR test which has been fundamental for for all DNA work subsequently uh he admitted openly that he would never have made that Discovery if he hadn't taken LSD LSD gave him that Discovery you said you recently had an experience with the other type of yeah what was that it was beautiful it was it was it was it it okay so five Meo DMT it's a bit controversial because in in the basic form it comes from the secretions of a particular kind of toad um and those secretions can be scraped off and smoked directly in that case the smoke is quite cloudy um and and uh you're you're ingesting not only the five Meo DMT but other elements that are in the secretions of the toad it's possible to have synthetic 5meod Mt which is pure which doesn't have the other other elements in the secretions of the toad and which doesn't involve killing toads um and that's the kind of five Meo DMT that I had was was in a pure synthetic form um I was alarmed before I did it because I've had alarming experiences on the other DMT and ndmt our facilitator helped me out and helped others in the group out by giving us MDMA first we had we had we were getting it in crap we're totally getting it in it's only the second time in my life I've ever experienced MDA oh it's great what a great thing it's just it's wonderful you feel so just overwhelmed with love it's just such a beautiful thing yeah so we had that three or four hours before we had the 5meo DMT and then three at a time we lay down and when we first sat up to take one massive deep inhalation on the on the pipe and then hold it in and then release it and then my wife Santa can do this and sit up she does it with nndmt and and and she does it but she did it with the five Meo as well just sits it up and she does these mudras it's very very present I have to lie down I can't I can't be seated I can't be standing up I gotta lie down flat and I actually pulled on a an eye mask as I was as I was lying down and then just this the only Vision revisionary element of of the 5meo was like a feather with an eye at the end of it but most of it was was about how I need to honor and respect and love my wife uh and and how I that was the Monday she was doing is get you to see that you know that I have to yeah but but but that that I that I have a problem with anger I get angry too quickly and that and that uh that anger can be very hurtful to other people and particularly hurtful to my wife uh and and it showed me that and and basically said you gotta you gotta fix this um and how does it show to you is your Intuition or it was more it was more intuition it wasn't it wasn't a scene of me shouting yeah but it was it was a recognition that that's what I do and that it's harmful and useless and it's harmful to me and it's harmful to everybody around me so there's a communication with the celestial being without any words at all without any words but you get you get it the other thing that I the other intention that I said I I had three girls on the pipe on that day um with about an hour and a half between each one and and on the third go my um intention was more selfish my intention was that I should that could help me to get rid of my migraine headaches because I suffer very badly from migraines in fact there's a kind of curse and I wanted to focus on that maybe there's some way that it could have could affect me and I did feel it perhaps it was my imagination but I did feel fingers massaging the back of my head where migraines often start and then massaging my temple and then and then abruptly it stopped and it returned to the issue of my relationship and I thought I thought I thought that I thought that it stopped like that because the the five Meo DMT had fixed my migraines but the very next day I had another massive migraine and I think what happened was that 5meo DMT was saying actually we can't fix this um it was it wasn't it was an extraordinary experience I wouldn't recommend anybody to do it completely alone or any kind of DMT I think it's important to have a responsible facilitator who's used to handling people in this state everybody responds in different ways yeah some people can really freak out but it's not necessarily A Bad Thing to freak out it's not necessarily A Bad Thing to feel fear but you want somebody around who's a sitter who understands the medicine and and who can help you and who can help you through that you said earlier that it removes you from the problem-solving Consciousness state which we're normally in we're normally thinking of the next problem we have to do how do we fit and then I think oftentimes in that state we're not dealing with the problems that we have internally we're not dealing with the trauma the relationship those things so it's often we're blaming them on other people exactly yeah so what's kind of interesting to me isn't it even the way that you describe it it's put a pause on those problems that we feel like we have to solve in every second to do kind of like self-work in a work yeah yeah I wonder what is on the other end of self work like I wonder when you get through a lot of those things that you need to work on where else they can take you because I don't think they go you're good see you later maybe you start to seek some of that maybe like maybe you need to deal with all of your stuff before you're ready for that higher conscience well maybe both things can happen all the time because virtually every powerful psychedelic journey I have and Ayahuasca is certainly that and my last Ayahuasca Journey was in 2019. uh DMT and in DMT more recently and then 5meo DMT they they all sooner or later deal with my baggage I carry a lot of baggage they they those of us who carry less baggage tend to have a gentler trip but in Mike in my case it's right in my face and you've got a deal and you keep going after it I keep going after it because it's very useful teaching and I keep slipping back into bad habits so it's a reminder yeah and and that's it's really important to recognize that these substances are not a magic pill which is going to fix you overnight I think people use them as that they're not they're not I think they've become trendy in a way and I think a lot of people are seeking out Ayahuasca because they're like hey I have this block and if I just do this Ayahuasca it's going to fix her for me and then it's done chances are it'll be done for a few weeks and then you'll fall back and feel it's like a chiropractor or something yeah you have to carry on the work yeah the the real work begins after the session so it's a recognition of what's going on and then you have to do that workout then you have to do that work but as to as to novelty um I mentioned Kerry Mullis um the polymerase chain reaction um the the other interesting one is um Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak did I mention them no but but they're they've been uh they also they also were very forced right particularly was the act that that the Apple computer would not have been invented without LSD wow um and and um Francis Crick who's the discoverer of the double helix form of DNA along with other colleagues he was a regular user of LSD in the 1960s before it was illegal um and and the 50s and he um also uh suggested that he first got it they got the double helix form under the influence of LSD so these are a scientific example of people of people who are making a Quantum Leap Forward in knowledge as a result of their psychedelic experiences not as a result of their alert problem-solving State of Consciousness that we value so highly but as a result of a completely other state of consciousness in my case the novelty I got was um I was given a novel uh during five Ayahuasca sessions in Brazil uh I had never written novels before I always write non-fiction and I still mainly write non-fiction but I was given a novel I've given the whole plot of the novel and I ended up writing that novel between the session was in 2007 I finished the novel in 2010 it was called untangled I had no idea that I had a novel in me and perhaps my readers don't like it I don't care I found an area of myself that was new to me and I was able to the entire story existed to you yeah yeah now explain to me how it existed like plot beginning middle end or existed like yeah I saw I saw I saw the principal characters and I saw the setting uh it was two young women one living in the time of the Neanderthals and one living today who were literally entangled in the space and time and and it was the use of psychedelics in both times that enabled them to be in town and that they were brought together by an entity that they referred sorry my critics are going to go wild with this they're going to drug shame me but you know um they were they were brought together by an entity uh called the Blue Angel uh who's whose purpose that there's a demon who travels through time called sulpa uh and he's seeking to destroy everything that's good about humanity and he does and he's doing that in two time frames in the time of the Neanderthals and today and this Blue Angel entity brings together these two young women in these two different time frames to do battle against the demon uh that was that was the story that I was given and that was the story that I wrote you see it like a movie or how does that present itself I did see it a bit like a movie yeah I did I saw scenes I saw I saw my my young character from the Stone Age rear you know throwing stones very very brilliantly uh at her at her enemies um and I saw the the connection between these two between these two women's and this and the sense of a supernatural Battle of good against evil against which the human story is played out uh and that ultimately we humans always have a choice we always have a choice between good and evil it might be at a very small scale or it might be at a very large scale if it's a very large scale it can do enormous damage to human society as a whole if it's a very small scale it can do enormous damage to us and those immediately close to us but it was that it was that sense of that that happening anyway I didn't have a novel in me before that but never tried have you seen other works not just literary works but film music that you've immediately connected to and thought Oh this is inspired by hallucinogenics this reminds me of an experience that I had is there is there it could be a cartoon for children right 100 or no like yes but it's an avatar from what was that uh the original people say that uh Pocahontas I think no no no no there's like a um almost like an anime thing that people thought it was like no I'm not sure but somebody involved in that story was was uh definitely experiencing ultimately Consciousness apparently JFK had experiences with with uh psychedelics I wouldn't be surprised oh um I I I again this is some this is a mistake that our society has made is to cut us and maybe it's not a mistake I don't really do conspiracy theories but maybe it is a deliberate maybe it was a deliberate thing back when the War on Drugs was declared it's under you know we did a lot of research with psychedelics lead people to ask questions they don't they don't leave us comfortable with the prevailing Order of Things both in ourselves and with the way Society functions and we begin to become critical in questioning in a way that we might not have been before yeah and I think this was felt to be dangerous uh and and they were demonized with lies and and complete dishonesty but they were they were do you remember when psychedelics were gaining popularity this is what 19. um when you say gaining population mainstream popularity well I don't think you could call hippies you know mainstream the way that we look back on them they were the mainstream stuff yeah yeah it was like they're the dominant culture but I guess they were Fringe and odd for them they were Fringe and odd and they were so and they and they were feared by those rooted and grounded in in mainstream culture yeah hippie was a pejorative right it was a pejorative he's just a hippie yeah you know it was it was a negative it was a negative term so I guess I guess that we're we're looking at a shift in human consciousness that certainly began probably in the late 50s and was it was well well underway in the 60s and had it been allowed to continue it might well have transformed Society in many many ways but then it was clamped down upon and all these lies and propaganda were spread uh false stories about how dangerous psychedelics are I want to be very clear about that psychedelics are extremely serious business and this needs to be understood I I do not believe that psychedelics are for children or cannabis for that matter I think that I think we'd be much better keeping them out of the hands of children if they were totally legal and it was accompanied by wise advice um they can also unearth existing uh psychological yes they can you have to be really dangerous yeah you know somebody's suffering from from schizophrenia psychedelics could be very bad news so so and a lot of people don't know that they have schizophrenia a lot of people don't especially sir so there is an element of there is an element of danger and risk and this is why a sitter who's deeply experienced with the substance is there is your Shaman essentially yeah we haven't yet invented a word for Shaman in Western culture but we need to the word comes from tungus Mongol it means one who sees right uh and and it was then applied by anthropologists because they found that that that figure that person who played that role was found in multiple different cultures all around the world and they said let's just call them all shamans right but the word comes from a from a specific culture um and and we don't have a word for that in our culture yet uh facilitator or sitter are the ones that are the ones that I use this is one of the many areas where Western culture would do well to learn from indigenous cultures that have been using psychedelics responsibly for thousands and thousands of years what is responsible psychedelic is to you what do you start with when you do it with intentional meditation things like that yeah it's intentions meditations it's not recreational you're not you're not taking it to have a party uh you're you're taking it to make contact with the dead Ayahuasca means the mind of the dead or the vine of souls ibogaine is the iboga is the plant that enables people to see the dead that's what these that's what these things mean there's so much of a connection to the Afterlife with them um and that's a serious inquiry you know if you've if you've lost a relative recently uh and you've not had closure it can be very beneficial to have an afterlife contact with that person and and many people report this experience that I've had the experience myself with with the Boga really yeah I met you I met my dad he passed away shortly before that now again the scientists could say ah you were just fantasizing that it was just your imagination but I imagine the scientists so what happened he came to me in the vision it was shadowy um but he was basically he basically made me feel okay about the key issue which was I was not with him at his Deathbed um and I and I was haunted by that and and after that I didn't feel haunted by it anymore and and uh increasingly with with my experiences with psychedelics over many decades now uh I have um I have no fear of death I don't I don't fear death I do fear pain I do fear humiliation old age I'm 72 73 next birthday you know I have to be realistic about this I only have so long in this Incarnation um and uh as we get older our bodies get infirm get weaker we become more and more different I don't like being dependent on others in any way um and and I detest pain uh and I would like to who doesn't and I'd like to I'd like to avoid it as much as possible death I don't fear and I I'm not even anxious about it I when it comes I I regard it as the next great adventure and I hope that's what it's going to turn out to be but who knows nobody can say the definitive word on death yes our bodies die but does our Consciousness die we don't know that any scientist who says you're just a meat robot there's nothing else to you but your physical body they're stating an opinion not a fact so for me it's the beginning of a next great adventure and I think psychedelics help with they've helped me with this and I know from the recent science that's being done that they are helping people who are terminal who are anxious about death again psalocybin is the one that's most generally trialled in this respect they tend to lose the fear of death they don't fear and losing the fear of death is I think there's a difference between a fear of death and a fear of maybe missing out on what's going on for example like let's say you were to do a some sort of like rock climbing thing with no ropes you would probably be afraid of dying I'd be afraid if I'd be afraid of falling and I wouldn't look I I regard Life as a precious gift I I I am fortunate enough and so are you and so all of us in this room to have been born in a human body yeah uh and and to have this this big brain and to be able to actually to be able to make choices between good and evil and to live the experience of life this is a theater of experience we will come into it as children we will go through it all our years we'll be confronted by all sorts of opportunities to learn and to grow and to develop and I I regard that as a gift so I'm not into taking foolish and unnecessary physical risks I have taken them when they're necessary Santa and I both nearly lost our lives more than once during our diving Expeditions um this is we've been we've been into war zones on our research we've had bullets fired at us if the risk is worth taking for a project that I'm pursuing that is close to my heart yeah I will do it but I want foolishly or unnecessarily take a take a risk seems like a waste yes to to do that risk in itself has no virtue it's it's necessary risk that has that has such a virtue um but but I don't know if that answers your question it does it does yeah because I think it's important to have a fear of death yeah and I think as we have more things that we don't want to leave loved ones family uh you know the beautiful things that the success brings I find myself going is it worth doing this stupid frivolous activity where I could potentially lose out on all these beautiful things exactly no it's not so that's not the type of stuff no it's I'm speaking to you as a man whose next birthday is 73. and you're like one of these days yeah it's gonna happen I mean in truth it's the door of death stands right beside us all of us every minute of every day it can happen at any moment yeah um whether through an illness or an accident just can you can be gone just just like that but by and large as you get older it does get close yeah yeah and you start you start to think about these things and then inevitably I thought well I don't know how long I have I have left um but I what what is clear to me is that I'm not going to hasten my death but but that that if it comes I'm not going to regard it with fear and horror I'm I I want to be as alert as possible and as awake as possible and I hope to be I hope to be ushered through the doorway of death uh with a psychedelic Journey oh break for a second because listen some of you guys did the tough thing during covet okay you paid your people you pulled your business through the pandemic and now doing a tough thing could qualify you for up to 26 000 per employee at coventaxrelief.org okay government funds are available to reward companies with two or more employees who stayed open during covid this is not a loan and you don't have to pay it back this program is complicated but nobody knows more about it than the CPAs and tax experts at covidtaxrelief.org you pay nothing up front they do all the work and share a percentage of the cash they get you businesses of all types including non-profits and churches can qualify including those who took PPP loans even if you had increases in sales you did the tough thing for your 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faiths the the monotheistic religions uh people there are exceptions but but a lot of people are not having any direct contact with Spirit they're being taught what to think they're being told what to think by basically a bureaucrat uh who happens to be a priest or a rabbi or a Muller who's who's saying these are the teachings you must adhere to these teachings and actually if you don't adhere to them we're going to censor you and censor you in some in some way or another to me that's no more spiritual than doing business out on the on the stock exchange you know it's just it it's a it's an expert telling me what to think whereas whereas a spiritual experience is direct contact with the quote unquote Divine which is not necessary necessarily some old bad tempered guy sitting up on a cloud far from it as a matter of fact that that is not in my view that is a a misrepresentation of what of what spirituality is we could get into all kinds of controversial areas here I don't know have you been in direct contact with a higher power through your experiences um yes on psychedelics I've I've particularly on Ayahuasca I have felt the presence of the entity that I call Mother Ayahuasca uh I felt the mother I felt the mother and I felt her and I felt her teachings and I felt grateful um because I like in the most compelling case she took the form of an enormous serpent who wrapped herself around my body serpents always coming back always coming back and and mother Ayahuasca often takes the form of a serpent sometimes takes the form of a Jaguar sometimes takes not like Motorcar uh the Puma and sometimes takes the form of um a human being but but uh is there any fear the message was no I didn't feel fear I thought I felt the enormous was wrapping around I felt enormously comforted and again I got a message that I've had many times is that you that you won't be good at giving love to others if you don't love yourself if you're constantly hating yourself and I I've gone through long pairs of myself my life where I have felt very negative about myself so so that you know that was that was a positive experience for me I would say every experience I've had with Ayahuasca has been positive even the most challenging ones yeah what was the toughest um the toughest experience I I hesitate to share this in in ayahuasca group when you're drinking with say a dozen other people um there becomes an element of telepathy or communication that can take place and it happened that I was in that I was in one group where it turned out later we we got the facts later there was one individual who shouldn't have been there in Ayahuasca there's a tendency for you to lower your barriers your heart opens your your very vulnerable to other people and unfortunately and this is a phenomenon that I would warn anybody of who's drinking Ayahuasca in the west today um or anywhere as a matter of fact uh is that that there are people who are using that vulnerability to gain psychic advantage over you and it was the feeling first of all it happened to my wife Santa who was beside me and then it happened to me of an individual trying to enter our heads and and and and take take control of us uh and and we learned more about him the following day and it turned out he'd been there the year before uh and and done exactly the same thing we didn't know that at the time he seemed to have developed some sort of psychic power and when we questioned him about it he said I'm this basement Shaman I go around Ayahuasca groups because I benefit from them and what he meant by benefiting from them was basic I'm a psychic vampire I I draw people's energy I take it away from them so these dangers can occur and that's where a good Shaman will stop that happening in this case he did not do anything it was most the most unhelpful um but I think he's learned greatly from that experience but how does the Iowa squirrel know that that is happening well that's that that's something where you have to tell them and in this case in this case my wife's Santa did tell the ayahuascus I was carer but he did not he said this person is trying to enter my mind they're trying to take from me yeah yeah and and there's a natural tendency to assume you're making that up as well and you're Lucid in that moment you're Lucid enough to describe what's happening yes yes you can often be Lucid during an Ayahuasca Journey you're speaking English to that person there's yeah you can be you can be and the person who is entering the mind is he's sitting in another area is he hovering he was on a he was on a a bet not a bad uh a mat on the floor just to two or three people away from us um and we were not the only people who he affected he affected other people in that room and there was there was a there was a gentleman in that room yeah literally fell down the stairs from the ceremonial spaced upstairs trying to get away from him uh it it really got very very very dark um did everyone confront him act I described it in a lengthy article on my website uh yes two days later he was asked to leave um because because he kind of said I yeah I do this um he he I benefit from the energy of others and then what exactly what type of energy is he getting like how is he benefiting yeah um in the case I can tell you particularly in the case of my wife my wife Santa and I are both the same age she's 73 next birthday as well but Santa looks a lot younger I I I look my age Santa looks a lot younger and he focused on her he homed in on her when he asked her her age and she told him his agency and he said you're that young and that's when he focused in on her it was like she would say she had some energy and she does that was energizing her and that was that was making her a fantastic grandmother and a fantastic mother and the most wonderful wife on the planet Earth but she has that energy no he did not he what he did was at a certain point when we were gathering to drink the Brew he put his arms on her shoulder and blew in her face like that now in Amazonian Shamanism the breath can be used for different purposes and one of the purposes can be used for attack that they fire things called verotes psychic dots at another individual again only people who've worked with Ayahuasca will really get this and a lot of your audience will not will not get this and they'll think uncle is a lunatic but but I'm just reporting to you what what what happened um and and um not only did she was she psychically damaged by this attack but she also became physically ill after the attack she developed shingles she still has shingles as a result of that would crop up again and again uh on on on her back in exactly the place that one of his hands touched her wow so it's just it's just it's just okay this is great hold on so there's a physical manifestation of an emotional and spiritual experience that she had so if that can happen within your body why can it not happen within anybody else's body why can that happen outside of our bodies um well I think it depends I think it depends on on how much you've lowered your guard but we're all on guard you know we all defend ourselves psychically as well as physically um but that this is the danger of the Ayahuasca state that your your heart opens and and so maybe there's an argument to be made for let's say that there was this War on Drugs right maybe they saw it as something that was too vulnerable to be handed out to the masses without a way to if we're giving them the best case scenario sure yeah I don't think that we want to treat the vase whether they the people in charges with best case scenario but this is a very vulnerable situation you use people you're seeing a perfect example of somebody using it for nefarious intent yeah yeah imagine the average person doing it on a Friday I spoke to the psychologist that does uh psychedelic therapy and he even reported in a clinical trial these telepathic sort of Revelations that even in a clinical trial inside like an actual medical room there was a person on I think high-dose ketamine or high dosilocybin I can't remember and the the clinician that was observing them basically thought about their dog at home this is a purely anecdotal example but thinking about their dog at home like oh did I go let the dog out and then the patient that was on high dose ketamine took the shade off took off the headphones and said I'm thinking of dogs or whatever and was sharing effectively the same vision that they were thinking yeah even though only one of them was on high dose psychedelic okay it's very surprisingly common real real quick right Mark how do we build the pyramids how you organize 20 000 people 30 000 people to be all on the same page and deliver the blocks in the exact same ways and cut them in the exact same shapes and well maybe not the exact same Chase but to certain specifications and you end up with this perfect thing that weighs 6 million tons and is almost perfectly oriented to True North so it's 481 feet high you know two and a half million individual blocks of stone and the slightest tweak or the slightest miscalculation can turn the entire thing off and it won't even be able to stay with a corkscrew instead of pyramid if you make the slightest error down at the down at the base if you could find a way to I don't want to even say manipulate but access that sort of telepathic ability it's just a better communication tool for a project of this size yeah so let's not forget that there are other tele abilities such as telekinesis which are also sneered at by Western science because we do everything well it's not so much a matter of belief we do everything in our society through mechanical advantage we're used to leverage we use the machines which do stuff we look at Cranes for building so and so on and so forth um it may be that there are innate human abilities that we're not uh that that have actually lapsed in our society but but that are still there and this is where um again to those who sneer at such ideas I would say take a close look at the work of Rupert sheldrake um Rupert sheldrake uh has is a scientist and he's done a great deal of work on telepathy um for example uh this may sound trivial but dogs who know when their owners are coming home now he did randomized trials where the owners would come home at very different times and other issues like the scent and so on were excluded yeah they always knew when their honor was coming home not always but that's at a statistically significant level yeah telephone telepathy we've all had that experience I suspect where the phone rings and you actually know who's on on the other end how often does a woman make a part of your body rise without even touching it interesting interesting me too yeah you're talking about Homo erectus my favorite typing what I would say what I would say is that I in all my books in the thousands of pages that I've written I have probably written no more than two or three pages on these extraordinary possibilities and extraordinary abilities but when archaeologists attack me if they say Hancock believes in levitation by the mind you don't really peculiar situation because it seems like you're unbelievably passionate about this specific you know I guess part of your life right but writing about it even speaking on it I even can tell as we're talking about right now you're like people are going to use this to discredit this other thing that I've dedicated my entire life to yeah oh man what a tricky situation it is a tricky but we don't do it to other people all right like we don't look at wozni I could be like your computers aren't good yeah that's right no um so you should have just invented Apple that's because that's because there's a narrative about the past which archeology tells and it's supposed to be a pretty much straight line evolutionary story you know it's much easier to digest like that yeah through early agriculture to Advanced industrialized societies and and the notion that there might have been A Lost Civilization that we might have forgotten the whole episode from the human story is very threatening to that narrative um and it's and it's particularly threatening uh when it appears on a major platform like Netflix yeah I've always been attached from my wife since I published Fingerprints of the Gods in 1995 but the level of the attacks and the characters ramped up enormously since yeah yeah it's also a sorry to cut you but it's not only it's like a validation it's like Netflix putting the stamp on this makes people go oh this must be true right right because on YouTube it's like oh that's that guy exactly yeah yeah whereas I I try to make clear throughout throughout the series that I'm expressing my personal views and that I don't I don't claim to be 100 I'm not saying this is how it was I'm saying this is how it could have been there's a there's a difference there's a part of this and I want to get back to the this because I'm really fascinated about this but there's one part of the Netflix series that I actually was really excited to talk to you in person so you could explain to me when you were talking about the the difference in the color of the Bedrock I think you were in Mexico was it New Mexico it was New Mexico um we were we were at um that's the younger driest boundary uh and it was at Murray Springs okay um in uh in New Mexico or Arizona pretty certain it's New Mexico was it Murray Springs I was with one of the scientists from from the um Comet research group yeah Dr Alan West uh and he was showing me the energized boundary well it's about the width of a human hand and it you see it running all the way through this draw now we see it at all because there was a flash flood which cut the draw down and the sides are exposed it was always there but you wouldn't know it was there unless the land had been cut and opened up as it was and this younger dry ass boundary uh contains charcoal from wildfires it can and wildfires are what you expect when you have a bit of a comet air bursting uh up above you um it has uh Platinum which is a rare very rare on planet Earth it has iridium which is even rarer yeah there's the younger driest boundary out at Murray Springs there there it is um and and it contains shocked quartz evidence of quartz that's been melted at temperatures of more than 2 000 degrees Centigrade it contains carbon microsphere use yeah they call it the black mat um it's not only found there it's found all around the world it's found in Belgium uh it's found in many different sites in America it's found as far east as Abu Herrera in Syria this was a global event and it wasn't one object hitting one place comets have a habit of breaking up into multiple fragments excuse me some may be quite small so small that they don't reach the Earth the most recent example we've had is the tunguska event June 30th 1908 yeah in Russia right and that was in Siberia yeah and it was fortunately over an uninhabited area of Siberia uh they calculate that that object was maybe 60 to 100 meters in diameter yeah it did not reach the Earth it blew up in the sky therefore there's no crater but it flattened uh 2000 there the flattened trees two thousand square kilometers of trees were just flattened by this and they're flattened by air yes the massive pressure releases the thing it's like an atomic bomb going off in the sky a massive pressure release oh so instead of the mushroom cloud going up the mushroom cloud is pointing down if this happened over any City it would wipe out the entire population of that right and still nothing has grown ever since I'm not sure I think it's probably regrown these these areas regrown the one on the right is tunguska event yeah um the the I'm not sure because I've not been to that part of Siberia but but it's interesting because it was the 30th of June 1908 which is the peak of the meteor shower known as the beta tour words we have we have an uh the Earth has a relationship with the torrid meteor stream yeah we passed through it twice a year and the astronomers who are working on the younger driest impact hypothesis are pretty certain that the progenitor Comet of the torrid meteor stream was what caused those impacts twelve thousand eight hundred years ago and we're still in relationship with it the the comet enki is the best known bit of the torrid meteor stream uh it's about six kilometers in diameter but it's a fragment of an originally much larger maybe a hundred kilometer diameter that broke up into multiple multiple pieces and and many of those pieces hit the Earth or air bursted around 12 800 years ago and caused the onset of the younger drives that I'm not saying that as a fact I'm saying that is the younger driest impact hypothesis yeah documented in probably a hundred scientific papers can you bring up that image that you sent me about the asteroids or the Comets that have hit Earth yeah yeah Mark uh Mark sent me this picture I believe it was you mark that sent me and it was these are the oh yeah he sent me this picture and here are the Comets that have hit Earth and I just looked at it doesn't it but wait and I thought this was throughout history this is since 94. right 1994. yeah yeah it's like it's like the universe is telling us to wake up Rogan said uh we exist in a shooting we live in a shooting gallery yeah it's a matter of time absolutely a matter of time and particular attention needs to be paid to the torrid meat history because we're gonna we go through this pricing once a year no matter in late October early November and we go through it in late June early July and it's 30 million kilometers wide it takes 12 plus days for the earth to pass through it on its orbits there are large objects in it there are many small and harmless objects in it yeah it's only a matter of time before we going through it right now have an encounter yeah before we have an encounter And to clarify those some of those are actually just asteroids that uh explode I guess in Earth's atmosphere so that's nice vast majority sometimes they'll hit sometimes there have been recent cases of of a bit of an asteroid or Comet that's hit the house uh really yeah there have been two recent cases this year yeah there's a one in Alabama that was hit by a large asteroid that like left a bruise on her leg I'm pretty sure yeah they do they do make it to Earth somebody throwing around but the vast majority are Air Bursts but they uh shooting stars you know but they do but they do they do make it to Earth um so we are in a cosmic shooting gallery and attention needs to be paid to it and not because we have to live in fear of gloom and doom and our planet is going to be destroyed precisely because we have the ability and the technology now to do something to avoid it yeah if we if we pay attention to it rather than paying attention to all the we are paying attention to like making war on each other and investing vast quantities in in weapon systems to kill one another on an enormous scale this is the human race has got its priorities wrong we're we're still locked in a in a frame of mind a state of consciousness that is not serving the human race anymore it's based on scarcity scare is this hatred and fear and suspicion the media particularly good at that that's great it gets audiences but it's so it's so unhelpful you know when we should be we should be spreading love and confidence and hope so how do you how do sorry how do we how do we how do we um allow people to experiment with mind-altering drugs without it being abused my concern when we became legal was that it was going to be immediately abused and not in terms of the quantity used the potency of it like the weed now it's it's not even reminiscent of wheat I feel like right like this is if if we're actually trying to get to like the natural part of it I bought some New York Edibles last night um well first of all first of all it's little pieces of chocolate and each one contains 25 milligrams of THC why would you need 25 that tiny well it depends how much you use it you know if I'm if I use cannabis very regularly which I'd sometimes do right and I really want to get seriously stoned I might need 40 milligrams really um and and I felt in need of more than 25 milligrams last night for various reasons but but but but you know trying to slice that second piece this up with a plastic knife and I think I just possibly had a little bit too much you know apparently heat activates the THC in a different way is that is that right um like when it's baked versus like when you smoke it yeah interesting I mean Edibles of course as we know are you're looking at five or six hours certainly on Edibles I peek after about two and a half hours and I'm still in there two or three hours later whereas Vaped if I'm writing I prefer to vape cannabis uh because because I can titrate the dose I can I can keep myself just at the place I want to be without falling deep into yeah where you can't even write anything yeah where I can't write anymore yeah so you know the uses there are different uses first of all first of all you legalize everything because because the the Hasty and and careless and their responsible use of these substances is largely happening because of the illegal regime and there are there are people making making money out of pushing and selling these things as as drugs the first thing to do is to make them all legal and I think the um but legal for adults not legal for children it would be much easier to explain to you know our teenage son or our teenage daughter that we would like him or her to hang on until they're 21 because when you're 21 you can do whatever you like just like everything else in our society as long as you don't do harm to others there's there and you know as I often point out we have multiple laws already which completely govern every issue of doing harm to others what's bizarre about the War on Drugs is that they govern what we may or may not experience in our own Consciousness while doing no harm to others I think it'd be much easier to explain to a to a teenager who's Keen to get started this is very serious very serious matter take your time the time will come your mind is a little immature at the moment wait until your 20 21 and then it's your choice you think 21 would it be even later maybe because I think that I think because we we allow so many other things to 21 year olds um I think that that would be a natural age to put on it of course every individual varies some 18 year olds are very mature men and some are not it depends but if we're going to put something on it I would say I would say 21 is a good age the example that the best example of why good advice works better than illegalization is tobacco in the sense that tobacco has never been legal it's never been illegal it's never been a criminal offense that could put you in prison and ruin your reputation for life and make you unemployable to smoke a cigarette but as it happens we have seen a huge decline in cigarette consumption not because people are afraid of getting locked up because they've had good advice good education and they believed it and I think we can do that with psychedelics but the whole thing is Tainted by the War on Drugs at the moment and we need to get up and go out you don't think it should be like off our cash is coming you don't think it should be a little bit later when our brain is fully developed um yes that's uh Perhaps Perhaps it should I I okay I'll tell my personal story my first ever experience with psychedelics was it was when I was 24 years old and that was in 1974 at the Windsor free Festival in uh just outside of London uh when I split a tab of acid three ways with a couple of friends um had the most amazing experience ever but I I saw one of my friends had a really bad experience yeah and I actually didn't go back to psychedelics until I was researching the specific book in which I write about psychedelics which is called Supernatural and it's recently been republished as as Visionary in order I believe strongly how old were you then sorry when I was a second so 2003 so I was already 53. wow okay um between the age of 24 and the age of 53 I had no psychedelic experiences at all um I also did not consume cannabis in a young adult I was 38 when I started cannabis yeah same 38 actually and and I initially I initially found that it was something that I would have of an evening to help me get off to sleep but when I wrote Fingerprints of the Gods and here my critics are going to say that's why he wrote that book when I wrote Fingerprints of the Gods I decided to experiment with with basically smoking all day which I switched to vaping that's interesting it relieves the physical boredom of sitting in that chair for hours and hours every day yeah and I help I feel it helps me loosen up Connections in in my mind it doesn't work the same for everybody I don't I don't get dreamy or Dopey or or lose connection I I stay I stay focused um but but so I was 53 when Santa and I went down to the Amazon had our first Ayahuasca experiences um in in 2003 and I was 38 when I started to become acquainted with with cannabis properly so I I don't know the the problem is people are different I just think I think the key thing is is let's stop making it illegal let's stop making it a crime let's stop let's stop shaming people because they're interested in psychedelics and ruining their lives and then let's see what the best system we have but we this is where we need to sit at the feet of shamans in hunter-gatherer societies and learn from them how to handle these powerful experiences which which we're not and and I I feel strongly but I I'm not in a position to tell other people what to do I can only share my advice these medicines are not are not for recreational purposes yeah not not the psychedelics and can you mbma now that's a different man did you see the beautiful white supremacists that actually had like a moral Revelation on a high-dose MDMA clinical trial oh yeah you couldn't believe it yeah I shared it basically he was in a clinical trial to study mdma's effects on something completely unrelated to race relations he happened to be affiliated with white nationalist groups he was at the unite the right rally in Charlottesville in 2017 right and had been a evolved throughout a long period of time was fired from his job after his job found out that he was affiliated with these white nationalist groups he happened to enroll in the trial did the study and then as he left the study he uh basically elected to discontinue and said I have to go do some work look up my name you'll see my history and you'll see why I have to leave yeah and then basically re-engaged with the researchers again to say I was a white supremacist and through this chemical that gave me dramatic empathy I now understood why I was in such a hateful place and I just needed love in the first place yeah absolutely this is that guy's racist though like if you got to be on Molly to like black people bro honestly not everyone has this experience but it is interesting you know human beings are filled with all kinds of prejudices and all kinds of ideas about about other human beings and and and one of the I think one of the great things about psychedelics is they can shake that up they can shake it up and and get us out of these out of these fixed patterns but the question of legalization is complicated I'm against bureaucracies I'm against government I don't think I think governments are the most unhelpful things in the world today uh next perhaps to the mainstream religions I think they're caused they're causing so much misery and Chaos if you if you're in government it's in your interests to maximize the negative light in which you put any kind of opposition that's what that's what politicians do and it happens at an international level where one state so there's no exchange of ideas there's no exchange of ideas um and aberration you know it would be it would be a thoroughly good idea uh if if every leader of every country anybody running for political office were required to have a dozen sessions yeah that would be the prerequisite yeah that's the pressure you don't rip you don't apply for the job if you haven't done this is the bit this is the bar you have to set you you have to have a dozen sessions via wasca and then you can apply yeah if you just gave the art right Molly that would probably help a lot what is a Molly I don't know when you first try it this you've never had it before you are familiar with quite true I had it I had it once at burning man oh dude you go to burning man yeah yes I know sometime in the 2000s and late maybe 2007 some somewhere I don't know I don't remember exactly we go I was I was with Santa but Santa at that time didn't want to take the MDMA okay and I did and I took it and we got into a bit of a state about it because I felt I felt she should be in there all the wrong things I was thinking as usual of course but I didn't thoroughly enjoy that experience but this one that I had more recently where something I took it together before we took the five Meo was just beautiful there's a pill called it and it is an ecstasy pill so it's got MDMA but it's also probably has some like Coke and some other stuff in there whatever but it's probably the most amazing feeling I've ever had in my life like I mean it was it was at Burning Man and we had a third of it we are just sharing it and it was don't get me wrong at Burning Man you're already filled you know you've already filled with so much love and appreciation your walls are down and there's it's like everybody around you is also giving so much so it puts you in this great giving state but it enhanced it and I don't know how long were you in the state I mean it was several hours but what was really interesting about it was the music that I was listening to I don't even know if this is possible when I'm going to explain but let's just say okay the music that I was listening to while I was in the state kind of captured the state and when I would listen to that music afterwards it would like trigger that emotional state for months now it stopped but for the next few months just hearing the music gave me a little bit of those feelings it wasn't it was a fraction of what those feelings actually were and something was happening in here it was like pavlovian like I heard that we were listen there's this great DJ blondish that we were listening to and all these things kind of came together they're all connected together in your mind in some way flashback experience why would we seek to deny adults the right to have these experiences I mean what's the sense of it I don't I just what would you say worst case scenario like if we were making the argument for worst case scenario what would it be I think that we have the worst case scenario right now when when which is not giving them the opportunity yeah not giving them if you take that opportunity you're breaking a law and you're running yeah at risk and people got the right to break down your door and ruin your reputation that's the worst case we're already in the worst case so anything can be better than I just don't want people to I want people to try these things and like it was great obviously going with these guys in different times to Burning Man and like having them experience this amazing you know uh I don't even I don't want to call it a festival or party yeah like this amazing Community experience communal experience right like it was it was really awesome I also know that there's somebody who's bored out of their mind in a place that has very little opportunity and they don't know what they're gonna do with their life and they're probably taking meth out of boredom and I don't want them to be able to take math I'd maybe rather them take this other stuff so like I know worst case scenario in that regard not in terms of what you've obviously been through and what so many other people have been through so as much as I just want to open up the floodgates I still want to pack them with enough like you said earlier information information so it just doesn't get abused the important thing to realize is the floodgates are already open if somebody wants to have that experience and chances are that the product they are sold will not be as good as they would be if it were if it were completely and you have the danger of the black market with the fentanyl what if it's only accessible through a therapeutic setting um I'm not I'm not in favor of that because then that that that empowers the so-called experts in our society to decide what we may or may not experience and I think that I think that this is an issue of individual sovereignty where we have we we should have yeah absolute Sovereign right to make decisions about our sorry you're not traumatized enough for Ayahuasca some guy who's not even Ayahuasca could potentially say that I I I I don't want it to be that way uh but none but I do want people who who would like to experience psychedelic therapy where therapy is offered with it to have the opportunity to do so maybe the questions and this this issue of end of life and and and old people's homes you know um I I would like to pay tribute to Amanda Fielding who is um who runs the Beckley foundation in near Oxford in the UK Amanda is now uh in her early 80s uh she has been a vigorous advocate of psychedelics uh since the 1960s she has funded a lot of the great research that's now going on in scientific Labs uh in in into psychedelics um and she feels strongly that that the misery and horror of old people's homes would be greatly facilitated yeah yeah if psychedelics were else they had to do yeah yeah yeah you know great and and and again being offered by experienced practitioners yeah the the lady who facilitated the five Meo DMT session with MDMA that Santa and I had um she actually her main role is is to go and offer psychedelic therapy to to old people but it's having to be done under you know under the carpet rather than above it's a bummer have you experienced holotropic breath work yeah I'm not very good at it I need to do I need to do more work I know that I know that it can be beneficial I have tried but the monkey mind you know keeps going off in other directions yeah and psychedelics work better what is that perhaps I'm just being lazy well you put yourself into another an altered state of consciousness through breathing yeah which which you can and which reminds us that nature offers us many ways to get it I've done something like that and it was intense yeah really it could be very yeah did you hallucinate no I didn't hallucinate but I like started crying I was sweating yeah I was like I was a weird experience I was so tired afterwards this is relatively reasonable a natural release it's just like uh yeah being a coach maybe so yeah and maybe so yeah um anybody who's really really interested in the whole DMT story I highly recommend the work of Dr Rick Strassman from the University of New Mexico okay uh his book uh DMT The Spirit Molecule he was the first the first scientific researcher to work with human Volunteers in DMT legally in the 1990s and Rick is a beautiful person and he's written a fantastic book about that EXP and he will be involved also in the new project that's going to take place in in Colorado so highly recommend Rick Strassman DMT The Spirit Molecule yeah so aliens well you see this is the thing that DMT volunteers uh and I myself on DMT have repeatedly experienced encounters with what might be construed as aliens because again I'm handing a stick to my opponents to beat me with uh and so I would like to point out and I went into this in in depth in in my book Visionary now title Visionary used to be called Supernatural um that that the experiences that shamans have with Spirits the experiences that people in the Middle Ages up until about the 1950s had with fairies and elves and the experiences that people have with uh aliens today they're all the same experience construed through different cultural lenses the the details of the experience in every case are almost identical there once you get down to the phenomenology and examine the exact experiences that are reported it turns out that they're all the same experiences just the different cultures construe them in different ways and right now we're construing those encounters as encounters with aliens well certainly they are alien to this this realm but are they coming in spaceships or are they Crossing interdimensional space or are they all within our minds somehow Mark the guy that you spoke to did you put that episode out yet with Rick Barnett yeah so Mark spoke to a guy who claims to have been abducted oh that guy Yeah Yeah by aliens yeah yeah and um Jay King yeah has he dabbled with um psychedelics at all I don't know I don't I asked him sort of like uh peripherally yeah peripherally and he didn't really seem to he didn't elect that information outright I didn't press him he may be a natural lover producer of DMT uh it's notable that people in the Middle Ages were repeatedly reported being abducted by fairies uh shamans are repeatedly abducted by Spirits uh shamans have sex with female spirits in the spirit world uh Alien abductees today have um have sex with aliens and often produce hybrid children it was the case with fairies as well it was the same thing we're just viewing it through different cultural lenses I I think and I think it's very useful to to analyze this experience if you if you look at these earlier examples of how it was how it was construed there were like ancient civilizations that spoke of the star people or like is that a version of this is a fascinating um imagery on the second Shrine of the tomb of Tutankhamun which is uh in in the museum in in Cairo now uh and what it is it's a it's a gold the whole Shrine is covered in gold and on one side of it is an image of individuals who are in mummified form but they're looking up at a star and raised from the Star are coming down into their forehead right into their forehead uh and and talk about star people and talk about the pineal gland I mean that's that's that's what it seems like uh let's see if we can find any of these perhaps that's actually from the second Shrine but that's not the image I'm talking about that that may be the image let's have a look at that yeah uh it's not very high quality no that's not it anyway um but but uh anybody who searches far enough and spends enough time will find it it's a it's a very famous very famous image um and there's this direct connection with the Stars that is manifested in that in that image so as far as Global Knowledge is concerned all these ancient cultures building pyramids building different Mountain structures connected to the stars in some capacity I know it's been positive that there's ancient civilization that's potentially going around is it possible that it's just connection with psychedelics that occur naturally all over the Earth and even internally with us through holotropic breath that can give those Revelations my my view on on the possible lost human civilization is first of all that that Civilization like all other civilizations on Earth emerged out of shamanism uh and that psychedelics and the use of Consciousness altering plants and fungi were fundamental to that shamanistic culture just as they were to every other shamanistic culture but uh it took a different direction from some other ones and and became capable of navigating and exploring the Earth at a very very early date and and studied astronomy in an almost scientific sense do you think it's possible that this same experience happened to pre what are we Homo sapiens we're Homo sapiens yeah did it happen to or are you bringing up early could they have also dabbled I think it certainly happened with neanderthals there's there's more and more evidence that cave art that was attributed to Homo sapiens was actually done by neanderthals and it may be that the Neanderthals taught the ancestors of anatomically modern humans how to paint that is that is even possible uh there's there's very strong evidence now that neanderthals were doing cave art and the same geometric patterns and the same entities appeared there they're not so different from anatomically modern humans and any way they live on in us because there's so much Neanderthal DNA up to up to you know yeah there's maybe some examples of Neanderthal cave art but did Homo erectus didn't I think you mentioned that they were sailing well they certainly did sail because they got um they got as far as I recall even as far away as some of the Pacific Islands uh wow Micronesia maybe even us New Guinea um but the problem is we don't have any evidence from that that appeared apart from a few skeletal and fossil remains uh the evidence for psychedelic use in cave art is fundamentally derives from the art itself yeah that was why that was why I went to the Amazon to drink Ayahuasca in 2003. I was I I thought I had finished my inquiry into the possibility of A Lost Civilization I was wrong I went back to it later because new evidence particularly go back to Deputy came out I was looking for a new subject that really interested me human Origins interested me and then the the sort of burst of symbolism and creativity that that that occurs a hundred thousand years ago or less uh and that's when I started to look at cave art uh and and then I came across the work of a professor at the University of woodwaters run in South Africa David Lewis Williams his neuropsychological model of cave art suggested that cave art was documenting experiences in deeply Altered States Of Consciousness and he made a strong case for that then I thought okay let's look at cultures that are using deeply Altered States Of Consciousness now so I started looking at the Amazon and I came across an amazing book written by Lucid water so Luna um and and with paintings by Pablo alvaringo and Amazonian shaman depicting his Ayahuasca visions and lo and behold there were so many common points with the K-pop I'm a boots on the ground researcher I can't write a book about something if I don't experience it that's why I spent seven years scuba diving so you know I said to Santa we have to go to the Amazon and drink Ayahuasca uh if I'm going to write this book authentically um does cave art make more sense to you now after having me oh completely yeah yeah it makes complete sense to me uh it certainly wasn't about hunting magic they weren't trying to cast magical spells on the animals that they wanted to hunt only about two percent of all animals shown in Kmart are pierced by any kind of projectile as a matter of fact there's no evidence that they were eating the animals that are depicted in the cave a lot of animals are depicted but but shamans often experience themselves transforming into animals you know so it all makes it all makes much more sense to me and the geometry that accompanies it and the you know the the scintillating patterns it's all psychedelic art my view is it odd to have had these experiences and speak to people who haven't is as I talk to you right now I feel like you've existed uh it's not another country I feel like you've existed in like a different dimension Dimension or reality yeah like we know the spider verse like a different uh yeah like as part of the multiver that's kind of what it feels like and you've existed in both and you can relate to me on the things that I'm saying because you notice like yeah the things you're describing to me I I can't even really wrap my head around them go drink some Ayahuasca it makes me want to do it yeah yeah I'm gonna drink some Ayahuasca in a properly controlled shamanic setting where where the shamans know what they're you got to give me the name of that vampire before I go do it either right that's terrible he's on everybody's watch list now good yeah yeah he won't be going but uh but there are some there are some some good places and I'm not saying that there aren't good places available in the west as well but is that a common experience you've had with people like I'm fascinated by how what you're describing but it is so foreign yeah it's it's very difficult for those who've not had the experience to relate to it for those who have had the experience it's really easy to relate to it so I'm trying I'm kind of bridging too worlds I'm trying to use my functionality in this realm as a Storyteller as a person of words to bring across some element of that of that experience and and fundamentally to say to people we shouldn't demonize this we should consider that it's played a huge role in the human story has it dulled your experience within this reality that we share it all knowing that there's this alternative version it seems more precious so it's enhanced it enhanced it that's I I I feel incredibly fortunate to have had this Incarnation to still be in this Incarnation yeah as a matter of fact that's another thing which you know I can't prove um but I I do think reincarnation makes a lot of sense why is that well firstly because of yeah but firstly because of um uh Ian Stevenson's amazing study called children who remember past lives um Ian Stevenson was a a psychologist and he was interested in reincarnation and he went to India our culture discourages children from remembering past lives uh in India they don't and he went to India and he interviewed children in India up to up to the age of seven after the age of seven it's all forgotten tends to be all forgotten we get so absorbed in this life but up to the age of seven there are distinct past life memories and this appears to be true of all children it's just that some cultures allow those memories to be manifest and others don't and he did scientific work so an example might be a a child who remembered his name living in a village three or four hundred miles away from where he's living now uh he remembered the house that he lived in he remembered an object that he'd concealed in that house in that past life then they would go to the house they would find the object they would know that there was some crazy stories now this is this is proper work this is not woo-woo this is again recommending a book Ian Stevenson children who remember past lives how stupid do you feel wait what she's Catholic and and you know that's another reason why I'm is it trans humanism that seeks to make us Immortal in our physical bodies yeah the singularity I'm I'm not a big fan of that I I like the idea of the deck being reshuffled and coming back and having multiple lives rather being stuck in this one forever speaking of religion I've actually been wondering how do religious people take your theories badly bad because here's what's the only thing they the only thing that that generally rings a bell is the uh is the story of the flood the story of the flood is very important to my work and of course it's it's found in the in the Old Testament and it's found in Islam and it's found in Judaism as well well here's this is interesting religions in all jokes aside have actually been kind of like questioning my faith recently and I was thinking this would actually make it way easier because one thing I'm struggling with is the Earth is billions of years old humans have existed for what a hundred thousand years about 300 000 years 300 000 out of billions but if you told me there's a reality in which or history in which humans are here and then a cataclysm happens because God's not happy with them and then we restart and then the same thing happens over and over again throughout history as a religious person I'm like oh that can explain away me being like if God made all this for humans why are we here such a small time in the Earth's history it can help and and you know whether the realm we live in is is created or or has developed accidentally uh the absence of certainty about everything is an important part of the human experience and if we were all certain yeah absolutely scientifically certain that death was the end and there's nothing Beyond it which we can't be then we would have a particular attitude to death if we were all certain that reincarnation occurs then we would also we might not take this life so seriously we might we might we might have um uh a flippant attitude towards it well I'm going to come back you know yeah whereas the lessons that this life has to teach are lessons that are based on the uncertainty of everything we don't know what death is we don't know what Consciousness is these are all Mysteries we must make our choices against that background of mystery and and decide what we're going to do with the gift of life that we have however however it came our way so the Greeks believed in reincarnation and their view was that that we drink of the Waters of forgetfulness before we come back into this life but that's part of the deal that we should that we should forget the past life and Buddhism the the only individuals who who come back with full memory are the bodhisattvas they are those who have been through life's multiple incarnations they've learned all the lessons that life has to teach is they've they've achieved Nirvana but they choose not to do that they choose to come back to the Earth plane to teach others to be guides to others and they remember all their past lives there are many different religions have different views on these these things it's only the abrahamic faiths that are convinced that we just have this one life and you know we've got to Heaven or Hell depending on what we do [Music] ladies and gentlemen thank you so much [Applause] this is so good thanks for having me here it's been fun to see you guys make sure in October October 24th October 24th is today check out all the books check out your website I'm sure all the information is located there Graham hancock.com everything is there and everything but thank you so much for taking the time thank you thank you thank you

Channel: FLAGRANT

Views: 2,540,605

Keywords: andrew schulz, andrew schultz, comedy, comedian, stand up, flagrant 2, sports, entertainment, pop culture, commentary, comedy club, near me, jokes, interviews, akaash singh, alexxmedia, alexx media, alex media, eddin, eddin media, Thankyoueddin

Id: DTJYETp-seM

Length: 176min 17sec (10577 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 27 2023

Reddit Comments

[u/CDB006_]

Any episode where they don’t reference Rogan?

[u/WinterCharacter1006]

Has anyone listened cuz on Patreon they said Alex and Ak fell asleep during the convo which sounds like my experience the last time they talked history

[u/optimisticnihilism9]

His new stand up material better be amazing, because he’s veering real close to YouTube podcaster who occasionally says funny things on stage as opposed to a comedian with a podcast.

[u/YoungBoyWonder]

Oh brother

[u/Vast-Duty5758]

I cannot wait to hear Andrew interrupt Graham multiple times while he’s explaining something super interesting. 💯💯💯

[u/konymandella69]

Fucking boooooo

[u/elizarraras87]

"this isnt boring" -Schulz

this shit is a snoozefest

[u/rgmiller1424]

Yea I’m skipping this week. I hate travel channel Schulz

[u/CountTwoTenAgain]

Guest pods are 🗑️