Joe Rogan Experience #1519 - Mike Baker

hello mike baker hello joe rogan brought your laptop this time huh look at that laptop i got a little you're prepared a pad of paper i got a pen there's many issues thank you for my covet test oh yeah we needed that yeah yeah we're doing them every week now okay i've i don't even know how many times i've been tested but it's good to know it's good to know it's it's it's odd that you can travel across the country and find that some places it takes you 10 days to get a response sometimes it takes 20 minutes to get a response that part i don't understand well the super duper ones they have at the white house they can get those in 20 minutes the ones we have here you can get the well a ten minute one see the antibody blood test will show you in ten minutes whether or not you haven't this is the fda approved ones that we use here they show you whether or not you have active antibodies meaning a recent infection you're probably currently fighting off the virus or whether or not it's an old infection so you had the virus and beat it and then the nose swab will say definitively if you've got it in your system now if they come back during the course of this show and say that i've got it am i quarantined in the studio yeah well they're the antibodies negative is very negative so most likely you don't have oh good okay good i feel better there you go well how do you turn this thing towards right yeah i'm sorry there you go no that's better so how do you how do you feel about all those so you weirded out like no you haven't been here since covid right um yeah we were uh i think the last time it was it was before then just before then it started to settle in um and then i i traveled last it was uh mid-february i was in new york city and it was starting to people were starting to be aware right and they were talking about it a little bit but there were real no changes in behavior uh and then it then it really hit and everybody went into a hurry lock down and and you know the good thing is pandemics don't last right so we're going to get past this this is not like the zombie apocalypse so i'm not one of those people that you know is hiding in my bunker even though i like my bunker um but what kind of bunker you got that good bunker i bet you do yeah but you have a real one right i do i do i mean it screws like a [ __ ] submarine a little periscope that comes up looks around the compound yeah we use it for uh for a variety of reasons but it's it's i i just not i'm not i mean i'm worried because it's it's uh it's serious and of course it's tragic to lose anybody and and you know we've lost over 150 000 people but you've also got to keep this in context right i mean we've had pandemics before pandemic just means it crossed international boundaries so there's there's an element here two things can be true you can believe the science which of course you should do you should pay attention to statistics and data and do the best things you can do but you can also look at it and go we're kind of [ __ ] because part of this problem is the coverage of it because of political reasons and not to jump right into the political thing but um you know i can't help but think that we wouldn't have quite as much confusion and we wouldn't have quite as much uh um you know the angst that people are feeling if um if it weren't for those sort of the visceral hatred that exists out there on some sectors for the president and again i don't have a dog in the hunt but i have a feeling like the tone of coverage will change in november if biden wins right and not the science doesn't change right it's still the same [ __ ] virus but i just have a feeling that we'll see a tone change um suddenly it'll be a little bit more about if biden wins it'll be more about what yeah let's you know let's look on the bright side let's get this coverage you know sorted out let's get the country working let's do these things and you know again you can believe both things you can believe that we're [ __ ] because of the politics and you can also believe the science my friend got uh tested turned out positive and the the doctor asked him what his political leanings are and he said why and he said well i really believe in hydroxychloroquine but a lot of people who are democrats who don't like the president don't want to use it i'm like that is hilarious and he goes hydroxychloroquine when used correctly he said particularly in the early stages of the virus seems to be very effective now there's all these people that are coming out and saying it's not and there's all these people that are coming out and i talked to my doctor about it and i said well why do you think that it's it's because the doctor that i use currently he recommends it for people that are high risk as a prophylactic that's the way trump is supposedly taking it he's like it's actually there's a study that shows that it's very effective a study from italy that shows it's very effective as a prophylactic and he says also when you when you get it um you get the catch the virus and then you cut it get it quickly so if you can get hydroxychloroquine in you quickly but you know look i'm a [ __ ] i don't know who to [ __ ] to believe so i read all this [ __ ] i'm like well do i believe the doctor do i believe all these other doctors that say it's [ __ ] do i believe that whole team of doctors by the way andrew schultz has a [ __ ] hilarious video on hydrochloroquine like what is it he did one of those uh instagram videos so go check that out um but it's it's one of those things where it's like i wish the president didn't talk about it because then we would know what the [ __ ] it is is it good is it bad i mean are people really not taking it just because the president is the one who endorsed it like that i think that's right i i don't think there's any doubt about that right i mean there's something crazy so it's it yeah and people don't know like to your point people don't know what to believe right and it's it it's one thing if if you know the reporting uh or the the uh dissemination of information is partisan during normal times but you're talking about a public health crisis and you would think we'd set all of that [ __ ] aside i mean if we can't come together as a country during a [ __ ] public health crisis what the hell's wrong but and it's both sides both sides are tossing hand grenades at each other so it's not just one side or the other i'm going to send jamie this right now because this is from newsweek this is why it's really confusing this is from newsweek and this is from uh a professor of epidemiology from i believe from yeah from yale school of public health you know and he says the key to defeating covid19 already exists we need to start using it and he's recommending hydroxychloroquine pull did you get it here look at this like this is a [ __ ] real problem this is a real doctor a professor of epidemiology like what the [ __ ] yeah no i mean and you see you see some folks coming out some doctors coming out and saying well it doesn't it doesn't work in in patients and then it turns out you read further into the story and it doesn't work on patients who are uh already seriously ill yes right that's what they're saying right and and so but you have to the problem is nobody makes it past the headlines for the most part right and more and more people are getting their [ __ ] information from facebook you know uh user groups and nobody reads down and and you know to be fair media outlets know that so they'll bury the the contradictory information you know in the 20th paragraph or something because they know no one's going to venture down down there everybody looks at the headlines goes see that that convinces me uh or supports my theory um but yeah i look at this and we've been doing everything you can do we've been you know wearing masks you know i don't see what the the [ __ ] is about the masks wear a [ __ ] mask when you're out in public why who cares you get used to it yeah it's better bandanas are way better you could breathe out them better yeah yeah it just looks good yeah you feel like that's good yeah if you got your horse waiting outside did that late do you know that whole video where there's a bunch of doctors that keeps getting removed from youtube facebook with a bunch of doctors talking about hydroxychloroquine and z-packs and zinc everybody's like you need to listen to this lady then it turns out the lady believes that the cause of impotence is spirits and she thinks there's alien dna in vaccines is that what is that what she said yeah it's it's a little odd and yeah she's completely off the reservation yeah oh you're not supposed to say that right but i think you're not supposed to say off the reservation oh wait well it's offensive to indians damn it yeah okay hold on let me make a note of that that one i didn't have on my list of what's offensive i was taught by a native american lady okay i'm not supposed to say that one oh she's uh off the chain i think you could say that might be offensive to dogs but off the chain is good right it's not crazy [ __ ] i need a new crazy term what's a non-offensive crazy term that's not well i shouldn't say not going to offend anybody because there's no such thing anymore ooh [ __ ] nuts how about that we just go with that yeah she's a doctor she's a legit doctor but apparently she is nuts yeah um what do you got jamie what did she say okay summer reported that a 2000 a 2015 sermon that laid out a supposed illuminati plan hatched by a witch to destroy the world using abortion gay marriage and children's toys among among other things emmanuel claimed that dna from space aliens is currently being used in medicine okay she also offered prayers through her website to remove generational curses transmitted through placenta yeah yeah seems legit no i i see where she's coming from trump addressed the video hold on saying i think they're very respected doctors there was a woman who was spectacular she was jewish spectacular placenta i just i paid money to hear him say placenta but he said of hydroxychloric and i happen to think it works in early stages so that's the problem see when he says that and then the lady who believes in witchcraft says that then like maybe it does work but the problem is a [ __ ] lady who believes in alien dna and witchcraft and generational curses transmitted through placenta i wonder it's children's toys i mean i got kids now i gotta worry i mean which ones would you assume i'm gonna go with mr potato head yeah yeah i mean most of my kids basically now all we got around the house is nerf guns right and so like any time you walk do you remember the pink panther where you'd walk around he'd walk around the house and then cato would like leap on him that's what it's like around my house now you're gonna get popped in the air hole by a nerf ball with a close range because you never know when they're gonna sneak up on you and use these things and so but that's about all we got anymore that and uh we do have some legos so i hope she wasn't talking about lego if she's talking about legos then we know she's really crazy yeah but i i think uh to your point again you know part of this is it would be nice if if if the messaging from the white house was was better let's face it on a number of things we wouldn't have quite the chaos that we do right now well he's basically using the same strategy he used to be a famous person you know you know he says wacky [ __ ] he speaks off the cuff he doesn't care he doesn't have a filter and he you can't you just can't employ it seemed like you could do that and become president but you can't do that and be president like people are not willing to like let you talk like that while you're the president you have to know exactly what the [ __ ] you're saying what do you think's gonna happen in november that's a good question i'm not listen i'm not buying these polls i'll tell you that i don't believe them because first of all who the [ __ ] is answering polls who i've always said that's right the dumbest people in the world are the ones who answer polls so out of the dumbest people in the world with nothing to do most of them are picking biden or more of them are picking biden but it says who says all of the media outlets that want trump to lose how do we know how do we know if they're being accurate i mean look i believe there is a large group of people that are very uncomfortable with donald trump being the president i absolutely believe that i believe there's an also large group of people that are very uncomfortable with a man who seems to be mentally compromised winning the election and doing so by hiding i mean the guys never he was just at another thing the other day and he forgot where he was did you see the video yeah yeah no until he comes out with his vp pick yeah um all bets are off as far as i'm concerned on on biden that vp is going to have a bucket of lube and she's going to dunk it in there and stuff her hand up his ass and she's going to be working him like weekend at bernie's there is no way that guy's going to be doing any talking yeah i don't know if you could do that i guess physically yeah yeah this is a strong woman i think she could do it yeah do you think she's the best she could win she could do it yeah she she would make sense to people because she's a powerful woman like you know she's got a she's a former district attorney she's a she's a powerful person she's got you know she's got name recognition yeah she's got that she's got a commanding presence yeah but you know i for what it's worth i mean hey look he's he's he he did something kind of wacky i understand why he did it because you know that's the world we live in but he's backed himself in the corner and said okay i'm i'm going with gender and demographics rather than you know identifying the most qualified person so okay fine that's what it is very strange thing to do though yeah it is but you know the susan rice i will put out a uh i would be much more comfortable with susan rice and i would be with harris frankly just given the work that she's done the things that she's done right on national security council she was u.n ambassador she was assistant secretary of state she was what national security advisor for four years i wouldn't be surprised if he ends up picking her because he worked with her very closely for eight years right and she doesn't have the name recognition but i don't know that in this election cycle that's as important as it has been in the past isn't there some controversy with her regarding benghazi there is but um and and and rightly so right she went out the whole story was she went out after uh wow how many years man isn't that incredible uh going on eight years ago september 11 2012. so shortly afterwards she went on tv she did a series of interviews right afterwards as sort of the face of the administration talking about this and she utilized a bunch of talking points that had been prepared by the intel community right um led at the time by john brennan and some others and in that that's where it famously blamed the video that came out in the protest in cairo and then oh my god that movie that movie yeah yeah what exactly see okay listen you used to work for the cia i used to i don't know if you still do let's be honest well but used to that movie seemed like if there was any if there was ever some movie that was made to sort of be used as a cover-up that movie did not look like a real movie that no well it wasn't it wasn't really a i mean it wasn't that it was it wasn't a james cameron movie it was something people what the [ __ ] it was it was made by an independent filmmaker and it was perceived as as very uh anti-islamic yeah and and but the the bottom line was i mean for susan rice if you're just looking because you're you've actually pinpointed the one [ __ ] in her armor right i can't say that anymore can i you can still say chick in your arm okay you have to say it quick quick okay one two three four in the armor okay so it's like you can say pussycat because you can't say [ __ ] you gotta roll right through it yes yeah okay all right um so uh that's the problem with her is the benghazi issue so uh but look the the bottom line is if you don't believe that joe biden is likely going to be the president for four years if he gets elected right for whatever reason then the vp pick is incredibly important more so than we've had in a long time and more so than ever yeah more so than ever yeah and you want this to be a serious-minded individual if you want to hang that if you'd rather see him pick somebody like karen bass or tammy duckworth or someone rather than than someone who's had the range of experience uh within government that susan rice has had you know again i'm not chilling for susan rice i'm just saying like you you prefer her i would prefer her just because i i respect the those those areas that she's worked in i'm more focused on our position overseas i'm more focused on the foreign policy and and that sort of thing and i realized that she's taken this hit for benghazi of course she is right rightly so but you know this is a game of compromise did you explain why she took the hit though so we kind of glossed over but so there was a movie right this movie was uh erroneously blamed for being the cause of the attack it wasn't the real cause it was not what was the real cause of the attack well because the attack was we you know we we uh ignored um you know signs of increasing um activity in uh in benghazi at the consulate that we had there we ignored uh at the time um advice you know and suggestions that we beef up our security out there and we allowed for um a uh we didn't allow for but we were not prepared for the attack that took place on september 11th in 2012 and immediately afterwards the line from the administration was oh [ __ ] nobody could have seen this coming right because you know there was a spontaneous protest because of this anti-islamic movie it was a hateful video that's how they referred to it and their talking points a hateful video and then it spread from cairo it spread all of a sudden it boom it popped up in benghazi and we had this table and now you know then they tried to back it up a little bit by going oh yes some some some jihadist elements you know hijacked that you know legitimate protest over a hateful video in benghazi and who could have seen that coming bottom line was they should have seen it coming so yes she should take some some flack for that but i guess my point is we got to compromise at some point if you know and i again it's not like i'm i'm still amazed that okay 2016 we had a choice between clinton and trump 2020 we got a choice between biden and trump what the [ __ ] happened to our country right 330 plus million people and this is what we got right but i'm just saying you've got you you so you're going to have to set aside some of your concerns and figure out who is going to be best suited why didn't they just have susan rice run as president because like she had she would have a legitimate chance well not she again not without the name recognition right and there's still a lot of there's still a lot of game that gets played a lot of theater and politics you know so oh my god have they ever run for president before and so that's what harris has going for right and i'm not saying she's not capable she's certainly capable of but but again look here's the thing i'm i'm more comfortable with with republican policies related to foreign policy related to uh secure national security concerns related to the economy to some degree when republicans aren't fiscally conservative anymore you know i'm small government but i'm more aligned with that the fact that i don't like the character uh or the behavior of uh of trump right i mean that i disagree with the fact that he's you know he gets out there he doesn't have an edit button doesn't mean i don't appreciate the things that the administration does in certain areas like our china policy or other things so i think the democrats make a mistake thinking okay well people don't like trump so they're going to vote for this this thing over here right and if this thing is a hybrid between joe biden um bernie sanders uh who you know got shafted once again in this you know this round of democratic primaries um and if they if they tilt hard left it doesn't mean just because you don't like trump as an individual that suddenly you're okay with hard left policies but i think the democrats make that mistake they think they're they're they think that that's the solution to trump going as far away from him as possible yeah and then you can't find a center i think exactly that's the solution i think the solution's somewhere in the center and when when you see [ __ ] like what's happening in portland and seattle i think people are more aware than ever now that civil unrest is like it's it's very strange it's very strange to watch them try to break into that what was the building in portland they were trying out the hatfield uh courthouse yeah the federal courthouse yeah that was insane yeah watching that was insane i don't understand the motivation like well there's connecting that to how how do you connect that in portland the most liberal city in the country how do you pre how do you arguably right probably the most liberal yeah the most progressive seattle yeah right there yeah how do you connect that to black lives matter i mean how do you connect that to george floyd's death how do you connect that to why why why i just don't understand why would you try to break into the courthouse they're trying to recreate what went wrong what didn't work in seattle right that whole uh zone autonomous zone yeah that didn't work i mean that was nonsense it was crazy you made a worse version of american six blocks it's like one of those little tiny uh little you know like if you took like a glass dome and you put like little animals in there and you let them eat each other alive like i was like we're gonna we're gonna create utopian glass like yeah they made a worse version of the united states they put up borders immediately they stopped people from coming in they had armed guards they wind up uh using police they didn't have cops but they have people that act like cops and beat the [ __ ] out of people for filming right the whole thing was madness they had murders it was well it's it's quick it's um i mean look portland i i know portland extremely well my parents you know lived uh in portland for a couple of decades beautiful uh it used to be a real a hell of a place but over the years and and you know i i know republicans and democrats who feel the same way who are in portland and the surrounding area and they all feel like this place is is slowly you know circling down the toilet because of local and state uh management right and so uh what happened in portland not really a surprise you know it's it's the same the the people that that that do this sort of activity right that you know uh have been referred to as antifa or anarchists or whatever they they're the same sort of trust of fairy and you know bottom feeding folks in really any city in the world who engage in a wto protest because it's cool to get out there and protest what i don't understand the mentality but if you try to figure out a motivation for them you know you'll lose your mind because they really don't have one you could take 10 of those people out of portland who are engaged in sort of the the violent activity and ask them well why are you doing this and you'll get 10 different answers right they really don't have it's not like that and they've the sad part about it is they they hijacked uh very legitimate protests yes over um you know really serious important questions about how do we how do we improve policing around the country how do we get to that point and i tell you the most disappointing part about it is after after the the tragedy with george floyd if the focus had been on okay here's what we have to do we have to seriously not just lip service we have to improve the policing to solve this particular issue how do we do that well there's certain logistical things you can do you can improve your vetting and hiring of police candidates right of applicants for the job you can do that that's a that's a protocol you can put in place you can improve the training that costs money so defunding the police is kind of [ __ ] you can you can improve the training and make it continuous it's not just a one-time thing it's continuous training on how to respond to situations it's like it's like weapons training if you don't keep doing it if you're not always practicing it just doesn't work right and then what can you do you can also improve disciplinary action right those are those are concrete things that you can do they're not easy right but it's it's not as heavy a lift as deciding in the aftermath of the george floyd tragedy that what we're really going to do is we're going to remove racism from the hearts and minds of of people that this is not going to happen right i'd like to think it would in theory hey great get rid of racism but uh i you know what what this should have been was a protest about doing things that actually will impact meaningfully people's lives and it and it veered off because people wanted to feel self-righteous it veered off into well you have to prove how pure you are you have to remove racism right now i know i know uh black people that object to uh white people i know white people that object to uh people not of their race i know hispanics that don't like people of of non-hispanics racism exists sad to say right and all mankind it's a human element of of nature would you rather spin your wheels and act self-righteous and try to say well we're gonna have this exercise where we remove racism from from mankind or would you rather say in the aftermath of this let's do the things that can actually make a difference and that's what we didn't do and then legitimate protests over over the anger and frustration about all this got further hijacked by again antifa anarchism i think that's a big part of the problem you know uh ben shapiro and i had this conversation about uh the the protests in this this term where they are large mostly peaceful protests and he had a hilarious point he said o.j simpson had a mostly peaceful night the night he killed his wife it was only three minutes of the entire day that wasn't peaceful like that is a [ __ ] great point yeah but but it is true in the protest that most of those people want the world to be a better place right the problem is the people that hijacked that and are trying to light the federal buildings on fire and and smash monuments you know particularly i mean like they're going after abraham lincoln i mean jesus christ right he's the guy that freed the [ __ ] slaves like what are we doing are we going to erase history yeah i would have loved if abraham lincoln could have had a time machine and gone to 2020 and understood what we know now about systemic racism however he lived in the 1700s when he wrote with a [ __ ] feather okay give the guy a break the the world was a it was a weird place back then well and that's and that's part of it is trying to trying to judge people of the past by current morals or current understanding current thinking is is uh is pretty absurd right it doesn't justify past bad actions but you know what this idea yeah that you're going to erase history or remove history or not learn from it uh going forward is it discredits the ability of people to have rational thought right to understand and look at at a context look at something in context and say okay nowadays that's unacceptable but okay i get you know why these things occurred it's tragic or it's regrettable whatever but yeah i mean look in in the uk they were you know they were attacking the statue of churchill yeah i mean holy [ __ ] it's crazy yeah and i mean i think i said did i just say lincoln 1700s i meant 1800 well it was 1865 right yeah but either way the the idea that this guy is supposed to be a perfect person back then look history is supposed to be about the things that happened the people that made a difference and how we got to where we are today and lincoln is a big part the 1865 the emancipation proclamation that's a big part of how we are who we are today it's look it's horrible that the early settlers brought over slaves from africa it's horrible that slaves still exist today all these things are horrible they're horrible but taking down statues of people that made a difference and made change look if you want to take it if you want to take down statues of uh confederate generals and stuff like that there's a good argument there it's a good argument that maybe we shouldn't have those or maybe we should have them somewhere you know like like the same place we have a statue of genghis khan right maybe they shouldn't be you know i'm saying is there a statue of genghis khan i'm sure there is yeah somewhere somewhere in mongolia there's got to be right genghis khan killed 10 of the [ __ ] population while he was alive but it doesn't mean there shouldn't be some recognition of this historical figure when you're talking about 2020 well i think and interestingly and this doesn't again you know you can you can the problem is nowadays right you've got uh you've got sort of the righteous mob on the left and the righteous mob on the right and the problem people make is is they try to placate one side or the other thinking somehow they're always gonna they're gonna be pure enough you're never pure enough for the self-righteous mob no matter where they are on the spectrum right they're always finding new there's a new benchmark there's always that opportunity but you know a lot of the confederate statues out there were put up in an effort to and this sounds weird but in an effort to try to unify the country again right in in the aftermath of of the civil war and and there was this element of saying let's try to and and so you think okay a lot of them were put up actually during the civil rights movement right they're put up when they were thinking that people were getting too high for lutein you wanted to see that and that's absolutely true yeah those are the really cheap ones too that's true they're really shitty made because they made them real quick right but i mean so the point being is i agree you know if you want to take those down well sure yeah i mean why would you have a statue of some confederate leader fine take it out take it off the streets that makes i get i get that right that and and if that helps people feel terrific put it in a museum or whatever you're going to do with it but george washington george washington yeah i know exactly abraham lincoln it's funny when they were taken down confederate statues trump once said what's next you're going to take down george washington and everybody was laughing like they're not going to do that but yet they are going to do that now yeah yeah and you know what and and two things again as always can be true at the same time somebody could be you know uh doing some things you disagree with vehemently they could have also done something that helped move the country forward did something that had extreme positivity well that's the genghis khan argument you know they opened up trade with china in the process of killing 10 million people he opened up trade with the east was he a free trader i didn't know that yeah he's a free trade guy free trade slash raper was our first nafta murderer yeah he killed so many people they changed the carbon footprint of the earth yeah like the new york times had this crazy article about it like he literally killed 10 of the people on earth but he was an angry man look it's awful that we have history that's filled with terrible acts and deeds but i don't think that removing statues of people who tried to make a difference you know within the context of their their time you know with lincoln 1865 with george washington 1700s i mean this is you're you're talking about people that when they were doing this they were the best example of humanity that you could find they were the best example of what we had i mean when george washington was the first president of the united states i mean you want to talk about a [ __ ] radical undertaking this crazy experiment and self-government while they escaped from the the grasp of of europe i mean it's really nuts yeah and and again i think there's there's an element here that we we missed the we missed the boat maybe again right we've gone through this it's not like we haven't had protests before you know black lives matter protests and over the same issues of police brutality and all that but um i it all falls into that same bucket from my perspective that we we don't do the hard things right the hard things would have been to say from a local state and federal position let's enact these different protocols that can improve policing let's do those things that we need to do that's a heavy lift in a way the easier things are let's tear down the statue right or you know find find a way to to make us feel better about ourselves without necessarily having and it's like this this uh shell game i think that the politicians sometimes play right that and you see it you saw it in portland where you know okay let's just placate this for a while it'll make everybody feel better and then they'll the protests will die down well seattle's the best example right when the mayor came out and said she called it maybe it's the summer of love yeah yeah yeah 67 the summer of love have they have they totally squashed that now is that that whole place brought back to the original business owners uh i you know i i don't know is the answer to that question i i do know that they've you know they've been looking at how do we do um community based policing how do we defund the police and yet still have something that resembles a response to the citizens need for security i don't know what any of all that dribble means um if you want to if you want to improve the policing it's an investment right it's not defunding but again defunding and saying that and saying that's what i'm for it's a easy [ __ ] way right to feel good and to placate people and then you don't do [ __ ] and then five years from now we have another incident because you didn't actually do the things that make policing better well you get where you got in new york city it began it gets even worse for the citizens because now the police don't have any faith at all in the government they're not respected they're not appreciated and you've seen this giant uptick in crime because their presence isn't there anymore yeah i mean it's really crazy man it's like a movie i've never thought if you went back to march when we shut down i never thought i would be sitting here with you at the end of jul early august here and we would be talking about this i would have never thought that this would have taken place that we would have legitimate civil unrest in this country people getting shot in the streets and protests you know um i know that there's a real concern with a lot of these cities that they're going to someone's going to try to recreate what happened in seattle recreate what happened in portland and they're worried about it the thing about it is it seems so organized it really does it doesn't seem that haphazard it seems organized how does how does how do these things get started like how do you get something as big as these portland riots well it you know it's a it's a really good question and sometimes what you see is a what appears to be a grassroots movement or grassroots activity happening just kind of swelling up from from a couple of neighborhoods yes there was an element of that but you also see like if you're talking about um you know talking about activist environmental groups as an example you'll also see some commonality between some of these groups you'll see commonalities in in communications advice in financing and in legal assistance and support from national groups right and yet it's in their uh it's in their agenda it's it to their advantage to make it appear as if it's a grassroots movement so that all stays in the background i'd argue that you know yes some of this um and again not to disappear down some rabbit hole where it's a george soros funded things where i was going yeah but i mean you know is there are there some elements that help with uh communication support or uh transportation assistance or legal advice or uh whatever it may be absolutely you know these things they very rarely is there an actual genuine organic grassroots movement that has no uh outside organizational support that's this spontaneous and that is big yeah so uh but again i you know look i we get we're putting our tinfoil hats on right but if anybody's gonna pick that one you can put them on i left mine out in the car but yeah i'll go get it you've been on the inside you know working for the cia you know how it works well we very rarely organized things like that that's not what i'm saying i don't i'm not not saying that you know yeah that you guys did it i'm saying you understand how these people operate right right yeah in a way that someone like me doesn't and also you know again look i you know we've talked about this in the past and i'm not i'm not necessarily a conspiracy theorist but sometimes yeah sometimes you know the the you got to follow the the threads that you can pull on and and sometimes it takes you down an interesting path and you think okay maybe there is something to this i wouldn't say you're a conspiracy theorist but i would say you're open to the possibility of conspiracy like when you and i talked about the martin luther king assassination yeah and you you took a big pause and you said that one does not make sense yeah no i agree i still feel that way yeah yeah that one is filled with holes yeah and i agree as well i looked into it much more after you and i talked and it it's yeah that's very strange and the way that you sometimes can get actually further into it without kind of disappearing down some of these you know peripheral side stories and issues is uh is money right look for look for funding look for issues of of uh where did money go um because that sometimes will take you down a more um legitimate path right a lot of times investigations get built on very shaky ground because you start with a theory or whatever and you you're never starting on firm ground sometimes when you follow the money it it it keeps you a little more grounded right um yeah follow the money follow deep well that's the thing with this it's like where is the money coming from like where where is the money coming from that organizes and and and helps these people get out of jail and and all that jazz well and there's certain things that let's go back to portland for a minute um one of the problems is i think the media journalism in general um you know isn't anywhere near as curious or or uh uh concerned with investigation as it used to be right it's it's it's easier now to just say this is where i'm at i'm subjective of course i'm subjective you know and so here i go here's my here's my there's the idea of objectivity and journalism is pretty much out the window with portland early on for instance they they published a uh mugshots and and names of i think there were maybe a dozen of the individuals who were arrested for violent activity right violent activity now a curious journalist you would have thought would have said let's do some research let's look at all these people and let's look at their backgrounds you know that it's already public information they've already posted it let's dig into this and find out who are these people are there any linkages or any commonalities between all these individuals can we find something that's interesting there maybe we won't but let's do some investigation right you know you'd like to think that's what journalism used to be and maybe you know but it doesn't seem like it is anymore um but that doesn't happen i think there's a problem and here's one of the problems most journalists are left-wing there's a giant number i don't know what the percentage of it is but if you want to go with whether it's newsweek or cnn or the new york times or washington post or many many many many of these papers and organizations lean left there's a dirty secret the dirty secret is antifa acts as the thug enforcers of the left the people that do things like this whether you approve of violence or disapprove of violence what they're doing is they they act as the people doing the dirty work that many people in the left think has to be done in order to enact real change now if you had the same thing in the right imagine my friend tim dillon said this imagine if the proud boys were lighting portland on fire right can you imagine if we had a democratic president and the proud boys were trying to break into the courthouse and light portland on fire people would go [ __ ] crazy it would be terrifying if it was a different political ideology but the same exact actions so because these actions are done with the correct political ideology you know under the guise of you know racial justice under the guise of reforming our government so then everybody's okay with people literally burning books you they're throwing books on a pile i mean yeah that's a bible so go ahead you it's [ __ ] crazy they're burning bibles like what does the bible have to do with it the bible gives a lot of people comfort whether you believe in it or not you're throwing stacks of bibles and then you're lighting them on fire in front of a courthouse what if they've been thrown the koran right good very good example very good example yeah it would all be losing our minds but pelosi you know nancy pelosi came out and said well people are going to do what they're going to do really nancy really uh well she's she's an odd duck that lady she's decided to call it trump's virus now yeah yeah and she's obviously [ __ ] with them which part of it i appreciate it's kind of it's kind of adorable and trump came out when when uh when her mccain passed away and he came out and said well he's very sad he passed away from the the china virus you know he just he keeps doing it because he knows he does this and he and he knows he can hijack a a news cycle right and he came out with this idea of you know the election and possibly a delay because you know the post office he knows what he's doing and everybody rises to the bait right yeah he knows there's no way in hell they're going to delay the election not going to happen now ideally he wouldn't have thrown that out there just to you know get a rise and just to steal the election you know or the news cycle but he does it why do you think why do you think he said that well i think he was trying to i a i think because what do i know but i it almost seems like he just enjoys right he's [ __ ] [ __ ] with people yeah and i think he knows what he's going to get which is again what he got which is a couple of days of oh my god hand-wringing and i told you he's a dictator and of course he's going to and and then my favorite narrative of the left is well he's not going to leave if he loses in november he's not going to leave yeah that's my absolute favorite narrative from the left so far yeah i keep hearing that but i've seen no evidence that that's true well if you repeat something often enough then it gets to be true it was like when when we had the uh the uh chemical weapons issue in iraq remember we had one source and then but if you re if you report that it gets into reporting channels and then somebody else mentions it or refers to it and then you got two mentions up now and pretty soon people forget it only came from one source of information elon musk please hurry up with your neural links so we can read each other's minds and people can't lie anymore it's so important wouldn't that be nice it's so important he's on the he's ready to go man i'm telling you we are two or three years away from being able to read each other's minds i'll tell you what that would be brilliant because i used to i used to say that at the agency right we used to get boxed fairly regularly or polygraph very regularly and i hated the polygraph and my polygraph file was huge because i you know i'm one of those i'm a kind of a i don't want to say i'm a puritan but i'm one of those quaker people who feels guilty about everything right i feel like if i took a pencil when i was a three-year-old you know my god i'm gonna i gotta confess it right so i i had a hell of a time during polygraphs right and then uh and then i get irritated with the examiners right one time i had one of the examiners say you seem to know a lot of foreign people and i lost my mind right something to you and so i literally went after her and said you know what job i do you know what what my my my [ __ ] job is and i i just snapped they're like what do you mean i seem to know a lot of foreign people and uh so uh but i used to say all the time i said man if they could just like make a calendar that would come down on your head and read your thoughts i would be a happier than a pig and [ __ ] because then i could have been out of this thing in five minutes look i'm happy to admit my faults i'll tell you i'll tell you exactly what's on my mind it's not all pretty but i'll let you in i'm a good person but yeah i have dark thoughts sometimes go ahead take a look but i'll do that if you'll do that i don't want any lies the lies of the problem the distortions of the truth did you imagine the implosion of media if we had mind reading and we find out exactly what's going on in the new york times exactly what's going on the washington post exactly what's going on whenever you see questionable stories you're like what the [ __ ] is this is this true is this [ __ ] is this is this propaganda who's telling them to write this why are they writing like this what is what's the narrative behind this where did they get away with [ __ ] in curious public right i would argue in part right i think they're overwhelmed well yeah you know overwhelmed by information i i don't know if it's a curious thing it's a matter i think that's one of the things we're dealing with now with all this activity people have more free time they don't have obligations because they can't work yeah because so many folks are [ __ ] and they're out of work that makes people more apt to be activist more active more apt to get out there in the streets more and it creates actually more chaos because you're you're having more people involved in these things and they really don't have anything else to do with their time and when you're out there you're screaming and you're [ __ ] holding arms and you're saying you know we will overcome you really think like you are doing something i mean it really does i'm sure it feels good no i i a lot of this is about you know feeling like i mean you're you're making a difference right yeah even if you even if you aren't i don't know whether we've talked about this before but i think one of the uh you're absolutely right there's they're overwhelmed with information because we have so many more outlets right there's so many outlets for for gathering most people are reading social media all day all day but very little else that's real what drives me crazy is i mean you just do it you can you could spend five minutes doing it right just go while you're walking around or maybe not now because everybody's hiding in their hidey hole but you know just just the the the constant with the phone yeah if people have five seconds of free time on their hands they don't know what to do so they get their phones they said okay well you know if nothing else at least i look like everybody else staring at my phone but i think one of the interesting things is with news dissemination is you go back to you know the 50s or 60s uh 70s we had a a a shared moment right every day for the most part right everybody would sit down at whatever five o'clock or 11 o'clock across the country and you'd watch the news on one of three basically three outlets abc nbc or cbs and so for that moment if you think about it the vast majority of people who were paying attention news were getting their their news delivered from the same one of three sources there was a there was a commonality there and they would you know process it differently based on their own experiences and beliefs but at least there was that point of commonality and that disappeared right that doesn't happen anymore right and and i don't you know i don't know where i'm going with that i just banging on about it but i find it interesting there's no objective news source anymore that's a problem as well there's a left new source and a right news source there's no straight up walter cronkite person that's given us the facts well walter had his had his had his own you know beliefs too no no no but it's it's as close as you're going to get to a good example right you just didn't know it it wasn't in your face i would like to see someone today that tells you the real facts you know well i've said this before is if it's it's a cash heavy business if you had that if you had the capital to set up a uh an outlet that simply told you what the [ __ ] happened that day right and here's your news am i gonna i'm not gonna have any opinion hours i'm not gonna have any any uh commentary we're not gonna have a panel discuss it and tell us what it might mean we're just gonna we're gonna take the top events of the day and maybe two or three times a day here's your news right and we're going to take the time to research and that was the other thing about having a newscast at five and a newscast at 11 you had all day long as an as a media business to check your facts to get it right right and you weren't playing beat the clock with with every uh mook with a with a smartphone right right who now thinks they're a blogger or a vlogger or whatever so yeah but i think that would be i think i'd actually be very successful because i think people do want they want the the ability to or the comfort of thinking yeah maybe this is legitimate maybe yeah they want they want someone who's pure that way i think the only people that are doing it like that are independents there's a few of them out there there's a few of them that are just telling they're calling it like they see it if you want political information the my sources are kyle kalinski jimmy dore and the hill those are the ones that i go to because they'll call out people on both sides and they say they show the problems the hill is a particularly good show because you have one crystal who's on the left and sagar who's on the right and they're honest and they're intelligent they talk about things they disagree but they're also friends and they've been on the podcast together but they'll tell you here's the issues and this is this is why this is wrong and this is why this is corrupt and here's the influences and this is this is where you know you're being misled but you could deliver you could deliver the news think about it even even on the political side even reporting on capitol hill you can deliver the news you can say you know during the course of today this is what happened yes right now it's not going to blow anybody's skirt up because it's not exciting and it's not titillating and it's not you know it doesn't fire you up to hate the other side but you could do it it's just you know again it's it's a you talk about setting up you know field offices and and that's that's an expensive business and to do it and to be completely unbiased yeah you you're going to have a lot of people working for you like good luck keeping them all unbiased especially today if you're getting some kid fresh out of college and he's 22 or she's you know you know getting her her graduate degree you're going to get kids that have gone through this system that we're trying to trying to rectify the the university system today is filled with woke politics yeah they're indoctrinating kids and a lot of these kids that are getting out they have this idea in their head before their frontal lobe is even fully formed of what is good and what is bad and what is right what is wrong and what you're supposed to do you know a lot of it it's like it's it's it's really distorted and weird well my daughter who uh my daughter who works in washington dc now um is getting a really good look at how government works um when she was in college and she's you know she's more republican than most you know um of her friends that were in college you know because you're to your point it's very liberal right yeah she used to talk about that she said she rarely had a debate she really had a moment where she would speak up in class and take the opposite point because there's no upside to it yeah i just want to get good grades yeah people think they're a racist yeah and the professor will hate you right and that was it and that was a big part of it she said look my goal here was to get good grades and it was clear that you know taking the opposite position from the professor the uh or the the the the teaching assistant wasn't going to get me where i wanted to be you're [ __ ] yeah and you and people adapt too that's the other thing about human beings when you're confronted by a large majority of people that think one way you will change and amend your thinking to fit in we don't like to be on the outside we don't like to be you know there's a few very strong minded rebels out there in the world but most people are conformists most people just they think they're rebellious but they're rebellious along with a group of other people that think almost the exact same way and those are the people they hang out with right i got on the i got on the tube one time when i was living in london a few years back and uh and it was during there was there was a it wasn't the mullet craze it was the goatee craze right it was every dude was wearing a goatee so i i came back from i was uh i forget where i was working overseas but while i was i was out there before i went back to london i thought [ __ ] it i'll grow goatee that seems to be the thing to do so i grew a goatee right i get back to london uh and i literally was like the next day i was back there i get on the tube and i walk into the car i'm standing there and i look down the the car and every dude in that car had a goatee and i thought holy [ __ ] so i went home and shaved but i guess my point is is that you're right you want it you want to you want to be i'm a rebel but i'm only going to be a rebel with a bunch of other people yeah you're typically unique yeah yeah yeah exactly so it's a but it's part of being a human being you know and i think we need to recognize that we need to understand that this plays a large part in your belief system it's not necessarily that you're right or that you're wrong and be very very wary of people who say they are right i am right because we're right we know because we're right and they're wrong well it's a cancer culture it's a cancer culture too is a big part of this it's part of being a fool yeah yeah there's certain things you could be right about you could be right about mathematics you could be right about chemicals and and you could be right about science you could be right about things but when it comes to political things and sociological things when it comes to matters of culture there's opinions you know and and sometimes you know opinions vary and there's a spectrum along with and there's some people that that hold that opinion that are really [ __ ] crazy and there's other people that are very reasonable that hold a similar opinion but they have a justification for it and they have a rationalization for it they have thought behind it yeah and this is you know what one of the beautiful things about doing a podcast like this is we were talking about like phones like leaving your phone for three hours i don't touch that goddamn thing and i get to have a one-on-one conversation with someone where we're locked in with headsets where your voice is as loud as my voice and it's in my head we're looking at each other across a table it's a very unusual thing and it's been a massive education for me yeah massive yeah to be able to talk to people like you and all the interesting and intelligent people that i get to talk to it's changed who i am as a human being and i'm talking to you and then and then i talk to the folks that are interesting and intelligent i think the the cancel culture thing and the in the this idea that you know that people want to think in absolutes um again i go back to the same point all the time which is like you know be careful everybody just be careful because you're never going to be pure enough and then you start seeing everybody getting devoured and matt tahiby had a good example about that when he was talking about alex jones getting kicked off of twitter and he's like whether you agree with alex jones or not agree with alex jones this is a bad thing he's like because it's not going to stop he goes when when you tell a guy you're not allowed to have those opinions and those thoughts and we're going to remove you from the discourse you can no longer participate in communication you set a precedent and that you're going to have a slippery slope and then it's going to come for you because the standards are going to change and you're seeing that you're seeing that with with liberals you're seeing that with people who are liberal but don't toe the line about maybe specific gender issues or trans issues or or whatever it is barry weiss from the new york times i mean right there jerry is my friend and she's about as liberal as you can get perfect example yeah yeah i mean she's a feminist she's a jewish woman she's super smart and intelligent and educated but she's also independent enough to understand like that there's there's a [ __ ] cult going on this woke cult and people are going to wake up to it you know my friend bridget fedesy she found a journal that she wrote when she was 24 and she's you know she's in her 40s now she's laughing i hope she's in her 40s i didn't i don't feel like she's not being 30s no she's wise late 20s late 20s she's 13 years old she's wise beyond her years but she's a very she's she's 39 at least how google her 37 whatever she's awesome i love her she doesn't look a day over 41. but she read something that she wrote and she was 24 and she's like jesus christ i read it she's like i must have been she goes i was like aoc back then she goes i was so crazy it was embarrassing to read and now having more life experience and and encountering more hypocrisy and craziness in people now she has a more nuanced and balanced perspective how old is she my friend but there's a lot of people like that look man when i was in my early 20s i i was probably well i'm pretty liberal now but i was probably even more liberal back then i just i think that there's there's a certain amount that i really like about republicans the value of hard work and discipline family values all those things particularly as of you know become a father and you know and and become you know someone who makes money and understands where taxes go and understands fiscal waste i'm a fiscally conservative person but i'm a socially very liberal person and i i find myself like a man without an island like i don't know i agree with that again i'm small government i'm you know i i think everybody just got to stay out of everybody's kitchen i don't understand the the interest in social issues i mean you know people as long as you don't hurt anybody else i don't give a [ __ ] you know whatever if that makes you happy godspeed but uh can i say godspeed anymore i think you could still say that okay all right because i gotta say it together right i can't say just god yeah does god have a gender i don't know if anybody knows nobody yahweh yahweh has no gender yahweh sounds like a chain of gas stations on the highway so yeah with the convenience store attached to it with slurpees and [ __ ] oh i used to love slurpees cola slurpees they're delicious i like that blue one whatever the [ __ ] that what is that the boys finished swim team the other day and and i had all three of them scooter and slugger and mugsy in the car and i said hey you know let's stop you guys hungry and of course because they're young and they're like yeah let's go to mcdonald's so uh i asked uh mugsy the youngest i said what do you want he says uh uh nuggets and and uh in that blue thing so i got up to the window he says can we help you and i said yeah i'll take 10 piece nuggets and that the medium blue thing i had no idea what it was it's raspberry flavor blue raspberry it's like slushy something but uh raspberries aren't blue not that i know of but once you finish uh manipulating them in the dna uh uh who knows genetically modified raspberries but so uh yeah but i now i'm thinking about slurpees it's a delicious beverage i wish it wasn't so [ __ ] terrible for you and i wish it didn't give you brain freezes because i'm greedy when i get a good slurpee and then i go oh the brain freezes they say you're supposed to rub your tongue on the roof of your mouth to stop the brain and you do that also to stop sneezing oh which now is like the you know somebody sent me that i'm sure i don't know who even came up with this but they said that sneezing in public is now the equivalent of [ __ ] your pants in public because everybody's so freaked out about coffee that's the worst yeah my dog does a reverse sneeze i was worried he was like choking and then the vet says no like that's like a reverse sneeze first of one of that one one of my guys that works here told me that and then i talked to the vet about it it's like yeah when a dog it seemed like he was choking but it's like a like a reverse sneeze so i talked to him i'm like hey man you okay he's wagging his tail i'm like he seems all right like do i take him to a vet what the [ __ ] is that noise yeah i just got i got another dog uh got a uh a golden doodle right yeah because we just decided look because we you know we've always had big dogs and i thought well let's get another dog what the hell and uh so it's part poodle park golden retriever yeah yeah yeah and a great great personality she's she's dumb as a brick uh but big she's gonna be she's gonna be a big uh a big uh probably about a hundred pounds jesus that's i know that's one big golden diddle a massive pause it's already already bigger than we ever why is she big i don't know she you know he didn't want a big dog well no we wanted another big dog to go with our the other one we've got now is hendricks the uh he's also an idiot i should have just named him idiot but he's he's a the greatest dog what is he he's an english golden retriever great oh my god i love golden retrievers man marshall's the first golden retriever i've ever had and i just yeah he's beautiful you had him here the last time i was here beautiful i can't get over how much i love that dog yeah they look at you with like everything they got right they just stare at you and they're just like whatever when i wake up in the morning he waits for me outside the bedroom door and then i we have this little like routine like good morning sir good morning he starts going he picks a toy up he has to have a toy in his mouth for whatever you know golden's always want to have something to show yeah yeah yeah so he's got like he goes and gets uh he has a box of toys he's so spoiled he's got like a box of stuffed animals he runs over grabs a toy and comes over whoo good morning sir good morning and then you know usually we go work out together yeah yeah ours uh ours will spend all day out uh in the compound trying to catch squirrels he's fascinated with squirrels like a lot of dogs are but but he's uh he's never caught one but he's convinced and that's the great thing about retrievers they're always optimistic marshall's caught one and he got it it got pulled down from instagram it's the only picture marshall's picture with him with a squirrel in his mouth was uh apparently offensive it was pulled from instagram good god i think it's still on my page i shouldn't have said that they'll find me wait a minute wait a minute so so it got pulled down because someone said oh my god how could that dog have a squirrel in its mouth yes because you know i don't know that's what dogs do that's what cats do uh well what was going on was we had chickens and the squirrels were stealing the chicken's food okay yeah and uh marshall wouldn't so they had it killed a chicken but we would not allow that so he found it amusing that squirrels were on the menu that's fantastic we had a terrier one time that would uh great jack russell terrier and uh and uh though that she in this in in this cat we had which was an outside cat had a had a deal the cat would catch chipmunks bring the chipmunk still living to the jack russell the jack russell would take the chipmunk shake it to death right right and then drop it and leave it for the cat then the cat would bring the remainders the entrails eventually to the front door and leave it kind of like laid out there like an offering to it to us and that's strange that cats do that it's a weird thing it's it's it's weird but it's it's it's the way of the world the relationships with cats to people is so bizarre because they're basically they've they just accept the fact that you're big enough they can't eat you yeah but everything smaller than them is like you can't it's a fair game i had a bit about it that you cannot have a pet cat and a pet gerbil in the room together at the same time like there's no agreements like you can have a dog that's a good dog and you can have a pet gerbil and the dog's like that's a [ __ ] rat you're like no no no that's mr fluffy yeah mr fluffy's our friend and dog would be like oh okay okay okay the doctor said no that's a [ __ ] rat man are you sure that's right you're like no no it's not a rat that's a gerbil he's our friend and a dog if it's a good dog there's no rules like that with cats cats like you can go [ __ ] yourself the moment you let that cat go he's gonna kill that gerbil it's a hundred percent of the time it's strange their mouth starts moving really fast they just know oh my god they're so focused on killing something they are murderers they kill billions and billions of birds and mammals every year house cats do yeah and when people find out that number scientists found that that number they were stunned it wasn't that long ago yeah it was a maybe a decade ago they did an account of how many cats kill animals and what the number of animals were i've seen that stunning a year in this country you gotta wonder like what would the ecosystem look like if it wasn't for cats yeah well we got it we've got a uh we got a hybrid house outdoor cat now that roams around the neighborhood and comes back occasionally when he wants to hang out and and yeah it's the same thing right well at least he's out in the [ __ ] chain he's in the food chain right if your cat is out there he's risking his own ass too there's owls and hogs yeah yeah they will take your [ __ ] cat out especially where we are man i tell you why it wasn't that long ago driving uh down by the boise river saw this hawk come down just bam hit the water came up with a nice trout oh god so wow hawk took a trout out right out i know the eagles do it incredible yeah these guys awesome no they can it's it's it's fascinating to it it's it's again i i you know what i've been advised before i came out here not to talk well about not to talk well about boys in fact i had people sending me notes saying just tell joe you know we're full up uh the women are ugly uh it's just like all this [ __ ] just say shut up about it remember when i did that show down there yeah i was saying to myself i was i even said to the audience i said i get it you guys are going to keep this a [ __ ] secret yeah yeah but like boys i i'm gonna say it one last time this is it last time last time it's a great [ __ ] place it's a great [ __ ] place you gotta come back i don't know the show i mean whenever that happens to travel yeah whenever you're allowed i did shows in houston about a month ago and i felt real scared afterwards i was like what am i what am i gonna get other people sick just so i could tell jokes it's gonna be tough to read the crowd when everybody's wearing a mask too a lot of people weren't yeah a lot of people had them hanging down like on their head as a chin strap yeah i like that with a chin strap or an earring with the pretending yeah just pretending to do something so yeah i got my uh got my mask on here and no i uh we dodged the bullet i did a whole weekend at the houston improv it was an awesome time hung out with dan grenshaw and uh willie d from the ghetto boys had a good time it was a lot of fun but after it was over i was like this is not worth the risk i don't want to infect anybody that i know and love and i don't want the crowd to infect people yeah and even though the like the health department cleared it and they did temperature checks and they they social distance and it's not you can catch it yeah it's too goddamn contagious well that's just it and you know and again you can you can believe the science and and you know but at the same time disagree with kind of the coverage and think you know what you know if we just if again going back to the whole idea of objective news it'd be interesting to see what the coverage would be like if you know if we had objectivity in journalism and you know they but it's not going to happen so i'm just talking about my ass it's not going to happen i think there's a there's an opening for it i think these independent people like i was talking about like kyle kalinski and uh jimmy dore and the hill and these people that are doing it with politics i think they've opened up the possibility that someone could do it with just just general news you know it's a politics is a very attractive way for someone to get into the game because it's uh it's very click-baity you talk about all these issues you may make a youtube show it doesn't have a large um boundary that you have to cross like financially you know there's not a a large price you have to pay before you can enter the game all you have to really need is a camera that sets up you have a background it doesn't have to be any particular kind of an interesting background and with most software tools for video editing you can do a lot of [ __ ] but honestly we don't you know i don't know i'd argue last thing we need is another political show i think maybe yeah but you know i don't think the last thing we need is another political show i think the last thing we need is nuclear war but i think uh well another political show is going down that route but i think that a regular news shows i would like someone to do the same goddamn thing with a regular new show but the problem is if you funded it like if i said hey we're going to do the jre news network we're going to treat news the way i treat everything in life i don't know so i ask questions and i want to know what the real truth is and sometimes i'm wrong but if i'm wrong i correct myself if we just did a jre news channel then you'd have to hire a bunch of [ __ ] people and then who knows if they're going to share my my philosophy and take on things they're probably not going to so someone's going to have to organically come up with a version of the and then there's the problem there like what's their sources are you going to send journalists out in the field you know and who are these journalists and what what's their qualifications and how much they understand about which subject they're covering well i think that is a great you know the great uh myth um i mean it was never you never had 100 objectivity right i mean it just never happened because of some of the reasons you're talking about it's just like with with uh intelligence reporting right it was it once you get the raw intelligence off the street right you can have a an asset tell you something all right and that moment it's just raw intelligence it doesn't have a right or a left or whatever it hasn't been through the spin cycle and then but once that intelligence gets reported back to headquarters and then it starts getting its way through uh the analysts right and then it makes its way to you know others outside of the agency if we're talking about the agency and it starts getting to uh the nsc you know and every by the time it finishes getting through all those different cycles yeah there's a spin to it right you've lost that so yeah to your point you're yeah you're absolutely right you put uh reporters out in the field they're gonna have a bias as to who they talk to yeah right and those people are gonna have a bias and then it's going to get back to the editors and they're going to work on it so you know again i realize that you know we're not talking 100 objectivity but something better than what we've got something better than what we got would be nice and i think the only way that's going to emerge has got to emerge independently you can't you can't get this with funding you can't you can't create that sort of a thing with a lot of a lot of money behind it and a bunch of a bunch of different people with vested interests and biases you're not going to create that you know it's going to have to emerge independently yeah and i don't know how i don't know how but but that's almost what you need it's almost like you need individual shows that cover individual subjects like you need an unbiased environmental show that tells you hey this is what we really know about currently about fracking this is what we really know and this is how we know it and these are the people we're talking to and you have a whole [ __ ] show just dedicated to the dangers pros and cons of fracking and then have the same thing for coal and the same thing for solar and the same thing for current nuclear technology which might be the most promising thing that we have but everybody's [ __ ] terrified of it well then what you're getting though is and you're you're continuing to slice and dice your source of information and you're what are you doing you're still overwhelming the people in fact more so yeah and they're like what that's true [ __ ] and so that's true i you know i don't know uh maybe like a new show is just it's there's too much news like you can't really have a new show because if you have an hour show like good evening this is the 11 o'clock news like like how are you going to figure it in an hour are you going to fit this whole world crazy chaos well you got the intro figured out though that's good thank you yeah i talk like a news man drive safely be careful out there did you get a chance to look at that chaos book that i that i told you about yeah yeah yeah tom o'neal who is a friend of my good friend greg fitzsimmons wrote an insane book that took him 20 years about manson and the cia and lsd and what did you think about all that uh well you've touched on some i mean it's it's or tom touched on some really interesting things that uh what i liked about his book and i went through it i read it is that he's he's he he's actually i think very honest about the shortcomings right of what he ended up doing right and and and the research that he went through and where he couldn't draw connections i i so i give him a lot of credit i think it's it's well worth the read um and you know it's it's a it's a hell of a just a personal story that it took him this [ __ ] long right to make his way through in a variety of reasons but um yeah it luckily it's been a tremendous success yeah yeah yeah i mean it's really he sold he sold out almost immediately and uh the paperbacks are sold out too i mean he's i think well look it's a huge draw right but it's also it's a fantastic encounter account of all the things that happened with the manson family and all those people that were alive back then about how this guy kept getting out of jail and they kept arresting him and they kept saying this is above my pay grade and they would let him out yeah and that's that's for me that's the strangest part about the whole story right i mean i you know this idea that you know was manson uh you know a lab rat for the cia and you know how how how far down that rabbit hole do you want to go well o'neill is pretty clear about that right it's a that's a not a particularly solid connection it's a tenuous connection i think he called it um between one of what used to be a a contractor a researcher for uh that old chestnut mk ultra west yeah yeah jolly west yeah what did you think about all that like i'm sure you know about operation midnight climax and all the stuff that's absolutely true yeah i don't know i it'd be interesting to know how many people are or where i mean i know some people that you know that that's what they do midnight climax operation midnight climax was a cia-funded program where they dosed up john's they created brothels and uh dosed up john's with lsd against their knowledge yeah and uh without their knowledge and uh let them uh fornicate and have a good old time with these uh ladies of the evening man and my god and watch them and film them and study them i know and when you say it that way i'm i'm in if you want money to produce that movie but it's um i it is actually yeah it's true look you have to it fell under the uh sort of umbrella of this mk altar which is public knowledge i'm not you know obviously we're not talking that turn well let's also give them the benefit of the doubt when lsd was synthesized by albert hoffman they really needed to figure out what the [ __ ] this was and they need to figure out like could this be used against americans could this be used against the president what is this is this a truth serum like what what are the benefits what's the pros and cons and what are the dangers of this stuff well that's a from a national security angle it's very important that they did study it right and so from context and again we talked about that towards the beginning is you know what's something we don't normally do right so you we're we're judging people from history now right and so we're not using context of what was the average what what were the conditions we're talking about the 1950s the 1960s well earlier yeah late 40s right i mean so so what have you got you got the the end of the world war ii you got the cold war uh it's the late 40s uh you've got the soviet union um that is heavily invested in um in a variety of experiments mind control uh brainwashing was the sort of the term of of the culture right and and brainwashing was a big issue uh it was not a big issue but it was it captured people's imagination back then so the late 40s early 50s it was korean war um yeah we had an existential threat right we had nukes pointed each other we had you know drills in schools kids hiding under desks i mean what the [ __ ] so with the fear that the chinese or the soviets were going to develop uh mind control abilities was uh pervasive and it's sound i know you know you talk about it now and everybody rolls her eyes and goes oh my god but you're absolutely right that you have to understand the context with which then alan dulles who was the at the time the director of the cia by the way the guy who kennedy fired yes and wound up being a part of the warren commission after kennedy was murdered which was very strange yeah oh okay oh i like that i like where that could go um so so anyway uh we got uh we got alan dulles who in 53 early in 53 uh says all right um we have to understand what the what the the soviets are doing particularly the soviets uh but we also had you know again i'm sure some folks listening know all this but a lot of folks probably don't we had pows returning american people returning from korea that was a big issue right because some of them came back um again quote unquote brainwashed you know and and some of them didn't want to return because you know again brainwashing you know mind control that you know perhaps the chinese had developed these techniques so uh initially the idea was defensive how do we protect ourselves against this new threat within this cold war against these enemies who appear to be devoting great deal of resources against this well so initially it started out as a defensive effort mk ultra was the umbrella name for a whole bunch of over 140 projects sub projects underneath nk ultra and it was all based around chemical substances use of chemicals use of drugs behavioral issues with with human beings creating false memories deleting uh memory uh influencing the behavior again of of individuals uh there were a variety of projects that fell under this mk ultra and it was again starting out as a defensive issue but then quickly became uh sort of an offense how do we how do we become the leader in all of this which is typical right it's typical on how things develop it's like cyber warfare you know initially it's defensive and now you think okay now we gotta figure out how to make it work on our behalf and sometimes it's important like when they shut down the iran nuclear program yeah with a virus essentially a computer virus absolutely and where this went off the rails in in in a handful of ways in many ways was testing on unwitting subjects things such as lsd and in a variety of other substances yeah whoops and those subjects unwitting subjects arranged everything from uh in federal prisons to uh state uh mental hospitals that's where manson comes in and that's where manson comes in and um and a variety of other people um you know who it's just it's it's a i would recommend people you know dig in don't you know don't settle on um just one account and one of the things that people should also do if they want to read about this is read the any testimony that came out of the cia and there was some testimony there were there were documents written by the inspector general back in 50 and this this time period was about 53 through at least officially acknowledged 64 1964 and then the program was wrapped up supposedly there were still um um federal programs military programs others that were still looking into issues related to uh the use of uh chemical substances uh for everything again from interrogation to um uh behavioral uh adjustment and and a lot of these things were funded through cutouts so you'd set up again this is you know early 50s mid 50s early 60s set up financing vehicles you know through say you know what appear to be uh non-threatening grant programs you know from research institutes so you'd you'd you'd loop in academic institutions or researchers and mk ultra had at least acknowledged anyway over 80 academic institutions and and others that were either wittingly or unwittingly working on their behalf in various research programs so yeah this this midnight climax program basically they'd they'd kid out a safe house as a brothel um and they would uh have the hookers uh slip lsd or whatever substance to the to the johns and then behind a mirror you'd have a supposed like a researcher right i mean this is where it got weird sitting there you know having a drink and watching these you know the hooker and the john have sex and then they'd be analyzing the impact of the lsd on them in terms of their ability to talk and and would they was a hooker in on it yeah the hooker was in on it and we see an employee of the cia uh no you know you know and it was it wasn't just the agency you know like the army was involved in these things as well but um they would get you know cash payments and uh oftentimes the uh get out of jail get out of jail free card um you know what ladies if you're out yeah if you're out there listen to me come on whatever you need come forward i'm here for it but there was a show there was talk you could wear a boba fett mask okay we'll hide your identity but i mean just imagine i mean so it's okay so this was clearly you know clearly uh was off the rails right and they had one of the guys that was involved in this uh uh he was with what used to be called the federal bureau of narcotics a guy named uh white george white um was you know involved in like the san francisco cat house and you know according to the stories he'd sit there and you know with a martini in his hand and watch the couple have sex and then he and he would have like prepped the the hooker to say okay after sex now this appears to be the best time to get them talking so ask them about their job and let's see if they'll talk about their job the idea being could we influence and and like uh entrap uh potential assets overseas for operational reasons you know is it was there some use you know for operational purposes but basically it was just you know george getting his rocks off watching couples having sex and you know very very strange [ __ ] um but you're right in that and so again this this went on until 64 mk ultra interestingly enough not to not to spend too much time on it but uh richard helms was the director at the time uh in the early seventies and uh he and a guy named gottlieb sidney gottlieb who was the head of technical services at the agency they agreed that the smart thing to do in 73 before richard helms left and godly left the agency was to destroy all the records so they purged all the records of mk ultra that they they thought existed um this was investigating the church committee back in 75 and then uh 76 i think it was they found a bunch of financial records you know that had not been purged because they had been kept you know audits uh of uh and again you're talking about like 149 sub projects of mk alter so you can imagine each sub project has its own accounting and you got to turn in your receipts for the lsd that you bought or the hook you're paid off or whatever you know so here's my receipt can i have my 12 or whatever you paid for a hooker back then and so probably not 12 bucks uh but uh they found some financial records um and so that became then the a matter of another investigation up on the hill um and stansfield turner the time the cia director testified at that point and that's why i brought my laptop is because stansfield turner's uh testimony is actually pretty interesting as far as mk ultra goes and he talks about we've attempted to group the activities covered by the 149 sub-projects into categories under descriptive headings wouldn't you in broad outline at least this presents the contents of these files uh the headings of the categories of all these various projects that ran under mk alter and this gives you a pretty good quick sense of of what they were doing at the time research into the effects of behavioral drugs under alcohol there were 17 sub projects probably not involving human testing this is a testimony from the director of the cia stansfield turner 14 sub-projects definitely involving tests on human volunteers volunteers 19 subprime sub-projects probably including tests on human volunteers while not known some of these sub projects may have included tests on unwitting subjects as well while not known well not known and then six sub-projects definitely involving tests on unwitting subjects research on hypnosis uh acquisition of chemicals or drugs aspects of magicians art no what magician's art yeah yeah like slipping them a mickey or something you know how do you do that sleight of hand studies of human behavior sleep research behavioral changes during psychotherapy motivational studies studies of defectors assessment and training techniques polygraph research funding mechanisms for mkultra external research activities research on drugs toxins and biologicals and human tissue activities whose subjectives cannot be determined from available documentation anyway it goes on but it gives you a sense of of what the hell was was happening during this period of time but again i this doesn't justify it obviously it doesn't but you're absolutely right that to have a full understanding of this you have to look at the at the context of what yeah where we were at that time and where we were with dab in in the height and and uh elevation of the cold war knowing that our adversaries our existential threats were engaged in this sort of behavior now george white was not really a researcher or anything he would just sit behind a mirror watching some people you know get off so uh clearly and all the unwitting subjects involved i mean but look they were slipping uh lsd to uh agency employees right without telling them really yeah oh yeah yeah and and i mean it's just yeah so it's not that long ago but it's not we have to think about it in terms of the same way we thought about abraham lincoln that in the context of the times this wasn't such a horrendous thing to do they didn't know any better it was really they didn't know what these substances would do to people and there wasn't a lot of ways to find out you know the harvard lsd studies that they did that they believe in in part were responsible for the unabomber there's a lot of other [ __ ] that was responsible for the unit bomber including particularly his childhood but they they did a lot of these studies because they they didn't know i mean there's it's one way to find out i mean how do you get responsible human subjects how do you get people to do well there's not a lot of ways other than just test people right and unfortunately yeah what what this ended up being was you know like using using the most marginalized people out there you know like sex workers or prisoners or whatever right uh and oftentimes john's or just just you know but that whole thing but where where tom o'neill's book is is you know it's really interesting in a couple of ways is isn't it if you if you jump so mk ultra kind of finished up in 64 officially right that's when you know the inspector general came out from the agency and said this you got no you can't you can't do this they had new inspector general and they looked and said this is clearly not where we are supposed to be um but interestingly uh funding mechanisms you know that were used to again to dole out grants or to provide a cutout between government and research that was being done you know did some of those continue to exist for other uh programs other research and in 67 you know you have uh the summer of love san francisco um and tom o'neill writes about this and it's very very interesting but you had this the haight ashbury uh free medical clinic right which in part uh was running a couple of projects that were supposedly getting funding from the national institute for mental health which had previously been a funding mechanism also for mk-ultra you know a few years in the past and um roger smith was a a guy who was getting his phd in criminology he was working at the haight ashbury free medical clinic and he was also manson's parole officer and uh to your point manson was like it was like a a brook trout or a rainbow trout that is in some catch and release stream right he was constantly arrested during the 67-68 period remember his the killings happened in summer of august of 69 uh and you know he kept getting released and he had been in prison right he in 67 he had earlier in that year he'd been released from prison right so he was on probation any violation certainly some of the things he was getting arrested for should have sent him back to prison but he wasn't so that to me is one of the most interesting parts of the book is this this is this revolving door that manson was in and eventually we all know what happened to him um but yeah working at the haight ashbury free medical clinic that's where manson would go along with some of his followers and and you know they were you know part of a study and you know they were i'm sure you know getting their lsd from there but um also this guy jolly west who was involved in mk ultra also ended up having an office at the haita aspire free medical clinic so but again to thomas closed down about four months after tom's book came out been open for over 50 years crazy what are the odds yeah i know what are the odds i didn't see that coming uh yeah but i mean you know again it's it's i like to i like the book because he does seem to be uh trying to let the the facts of all his research lead the way rather than trying to prove a point that he comes up with at the beginning of his book well he also exposed the prosecutor bugliosi and all the the issues that was going on with him that led to him wanting to follow the narrative that they had laid out that manson was trying to incite a race war and right you know and ignore all the other indicators that there was some deeper connections and yeah was manson a was he an informer for the bureau or for local law enforcement or you know some other outfit i'd you know that's uh hard to tell hard to tell but it's compelling in light of the fact that he kept getting released he seemed that would get out of jail free card he also seemed to have an unlimited supply of acid that was what's fascinating and you also seem to employ the same techniques that apparently the cia had employed when they'd done experiments on prisoners including the fact that he would you know force them into weird sexual situations and pretend to take lsd himself but not really participate and then you know influence them and he seemed to be doing things to them in terms of like trying to alter their behavior and getting them to do things that were outside the norm including murder yeah i mean did he see yeah did he have a sense from his time there uh at the clinic or dealing with uh what's his name roger smith his parole officer who again was also a you know criminology doctor a doctoral candidate i guess and so was you know but but look manson was you know he was not a rocket scientist he was illiterate for the most part right until he ended up in prison and and uh and maybe which is why it was so weird that he was able to manipulate so many people so well right but it was also it's like what he was the perfect guinea pig i mean you're talking about a guy who spent half his life in federal penitentiaries yeah yeah and and and also you're putting it in context of the time what else did you have going on you had sort of this again this uh awareness of the impact of lsd on on the counterculture right so you had federal agencies like the bureau for example worrying about oh my god what's the you know what what are these hippies going to do next you know and you know they were worried obviously about uh the black panthers but it was also more than that it was it was the war movement yeah the just the general counterculture and the impact of drugs on it and so it's a it's a fascinating i think it's a i think it's a very interesting read and i think it's worth the read because again he's spent so much time trying to make his way through and get these books yeah it's a crazy story and if you haven't heard the podcast please listen to it with tom o'neil how what number was that jamie have any idea but uh um it's it's just do you think that those times and the shift between the 50s and the 60s are maybe even a bigger cultural shift than we're experiencing now because it seems like yeah this [ __ ] when the hippies came around and all the drugs and free love and all that crazy [ __ ] and woodstock it almost seemed like that is even more of a radical change in culture than we're experiencing today we're experiencing a lot of turmoil today but so much of it you could attribute to the problems the economic despair with covid and the lockdown and and then the george floyd murder and the black lives matter protests and there's so many different like tangible factors that you could point to well i think in the in the pandemic is certainly a massive part of it because you think about it um and this you know this in no way minimizes the the importance of um of the the protests and trying to get you know policing the way you know that everyone agrees it should be but the you know if everybody was working and we didn't have the pandemic right i would argue we wouldn't have seen the protest in portland we would have seen there there is this this like we talked about earlier yeah these people they have too much too much free time but um i i don't know i mean i remember i'm old enough to remember you know somewhat as a kid uh the uh race riots of the 60s uh it's just general upheaval right and um i remember [ __ ] i remember my older sister you know down in the basement uh painting uh protest signs with a bunch of her friends and they were gonna head downtown to a protest you know and i had a brother like two brothers that were in the vietnam war and you know there was a lot of you know they were definitely at odds with each other right here's my sister protesting the war there's my one of my brothers flying at fours in the war another a medic and and you know so it was a very tumultuous time um i i this i don't think that's where we are now so i agree with you i think it was more upheaval then um but it's it's incredibly disappointing now i thought we were maybe it's obviously naive to some degree but i i kind of thought we were further along than we are now it seems yeah and so the the you know it's it's it's yeah it's very disappointing and frustrating to see where we're kind of at at this moment in time and um again part of it's heightened by just the uber partisanship of everything but um yeah and but i don't think we're there and i think this the pandemic has given us all too much time to reflect on [ __ ] and um also everyone's so scared that we're we're projecting it on to other subjects and that this fear and anxiety it just accentuates or exacerbates all the the other problems that we have first of all there's the financial fear which is doesn't seem like there's a way out of it for a lot of people for low-income people and and people that are losing their jobs and people that are losing their businesses there doesn't seem to be a a light at the end of the tunnel yeah no and it's and you know we're we're very fortunate in that we you know we've been we'll ride out that side of it right with you know with the economy and and all that but yeah all the people i mean look at the situation currently with just the unemployment but and and how quickly that took place right we were riding high as far as economy goes you know just a handful of months ago and now the number of people who are worried about you know do they have a roof over their head you know because maybe they're going to get evicted or you know what the [ __ ] now i know i can go back to work but i can't because my workplace isn't open anymore well you used to hear that everyone is one paycheck away right that was the thing most americans like 40 of americans are one paycheck away from being broke well what the [ __ ] are you doing now yeah we're five months later what does that mean well that's 600 bucks a week right i mean i know i get it right the government can't continue to keep kicking cash out the door right but there's there's a it's it's not enough but it's also uh i mean look what the [ __ ] wrong with our politicians right i mean they're agonizing over this right we've got you know how many trillions are we in debt and so fine but solve the problem now right the pandemic is not it's not going to last forever right we're going to figure this out and everyone's going to get back to to hopefully some relative normalcy but in the short term the fact that the democrats and republicans can't you know come together and resolve this they're they're bickering about well what do we do with the next bailout bill or do we have one or how much is it going to be a month and you've got people legitimately standing at the door wondering whether they have to leave their apartment or not or whether they'll they'll have a place to come home to or how they're going to feed their kids and you've got these these [ __ ] idiot politicians who are just playing games with us and then it always happens and uh you know they're paid they're paid and if there's no consequence to them then [ __ ] doesn't happen that's i firmly believe that with washington dc nothing happens in washington unless the politicians personally feel as if there's some consequence to their situation their position of power and they're acting as if you know that there won't be any consequences and so they you know they're talking about oh we're gonna get this done before our august break what the [ __ ] they're gonna take an august break i mean i was stunned by that today when i was talking to somebody in dc and they're saying yeah well they're they're trying to rush us through before they who takes a [ __ ] break in in you know damage yeah yeah so but that's what well we got to go back and see our constituents i mean constituents would probably tell you to stay in dc and get something done but i i don't know i i just you know at the end of the day it doesn't do any good to sit around and pitch and moan but but but i think um you know unless we have term limits and we have campaign finance reform i i we're going to be talking about this forever or mushrooms wait or they slip some lsd to a bunch of unwitting politicians and see what happens what what do you think of all this pentagon ufo we've recovered crafts none of this world talk uh okay yeah i think um two things i think again can always be true at the same time um i don't think we're the only intelligent life out there i mean i'm classifying us as intelligent but um i also don't think we're hiding uh some alien spacecraft somewhere um so why do you think the pentagon would come out and say something like that well i think um look we did a with with uh oh here comes a here comes a pitch for my show um for black foster classified that's black follows the classifier black files declassified and how could one watch this show god that was a good first season wasn't it um it was on discovery on science channel ah yes discovery i love the science channel we did an episode on on uh advanced aeronautic threat identification program atip which was the pentagon's admitted you know came out and said yes we have a a program that we ran a program it's no longer an existence called atip which was designed to identify uh unidentified aviation threats basically so it's not talking about ufos necessarily it could be a hostile you know prototype aircraft that you know what is that i talked to commander fravor there you go david framer yeah david was in here and he explained his incident off of the coast of san diego and he said they tracked this thing it dropped from 60 000 feet to one foot above the sea in a second yeah and he wasn't it wasn't just him seeing this right it was a radar operators on board and uh his wingmen exactly yeah so but i think uh they said it was tracking them and then it it actually actively blocked their tracking and then no no visible means of proposition exactly no no no for no heat signal yeah i mean so i think it's look and he's a very credible this yeah right and and so uh i mean not the only one yeah not everything i mean but what do you think of that yeah well i think um yeah i i think we don't well here's what i think i think we haven't resolved that issue we don't know there was no uh uh final report that gave some sort of conclusive evidence that said this is what this identifier this object was um it is considered still this day to be an anomaly perhaps of you know they don't they just know clarification which is interesting and all by itself and again kind of goes back to this look are we the only intelligent people no but do i think that the government is capable all these years of holding a secret like that no i really don't i think there's there's much like with mk ultra or anything else they get eventually [ __ ] hits the fan stuff comes out and i don't think the i'm not one of those and i i say this and i'm sure a lot of people disagree but uh i just don't think that the government's capable of keeping secrets for the long term certainly not of this magnitude um but i think there are certainly things that have happened that we uh can't explain and one of them would be this citing by favor yeah yeah so um but materials you know materials that that aren't uh you know uh from earth look [ __ ] hits the earth from space all the time and that qualifies as a material that is not found that's what they said though right well they said they've recovered crafts not from this world yeah i'd like to i'd i would want to sit down with the individuals saying that and say okay clarify this please i'd want to take them to one of them brothels yeah yeah exactly absolutely i sit there with a martini behind that mirror okay hey man yeah tell me what you really do there you go bring one of those hookers in from the from the 60s but no no no no no no no no don't do that to her or him no i would want to know though what what you know what is actually happening and why would they come out with a statement like that well i'm going to tell you something between you and me uh is uh second season of black files declassified we're going to be looking at that why do you think i yeah i don't know what that that's that's the big question is why would they say that right and um i don't have an answer for that i don't i don't know and that's why i say it it's a shocker it definitely bears further investigation that goes without saying if there was a thing that was coming they would want to protect prepare people and i think if you wanted to prepare people the best way to prepare people is to slowly give them signs that some [ __ ] is about to go down and one of the best ways to say we have found things that are not of this world okay think about that for a little while we'll see in a few months a few months a few months of accepting that without any see there's no there's no event right it's just a statement what was the exact wording let's bring that up yeah the exact wording of uh here it is yeah crashes harry reid said he believed crashes of vehicles from other worlds had occurred and that retrieved materials had been studied secretly for decades yeah now you know bob lazar do you know the story of bob lazar babazar was in here and he he said some things that were ridiculed but turned to be turned out to be absolutely true one of the things that he said was that there was this element this element 115 and that they had figured out a way to stabilize this element in these other planets and that's what they used to propel these vehicles with a different kind of propulsion that manipulated gravity and it essentially had created some sort of a warp where they they didn't they weren't subject to the same laws of physics right with this propulsion system that we are with what we have which is just igniting fuel and you know pushing the explosion pushes the the rocket right into the into this into space which could explain sort of the the fravor sighting yeah the way he described these vehicles in the 1980s and the early 1990s is exactly the way frager's vehicle worked exactly the way the gimbal video worked these things for whatever reason they fly one way and then they turn sideways like like if you had a plate the plate turns up and down and then that's the way it travels and then somehow or another that's that's how it travels insanely fast that it does something to manipulate gravity around it yeah it sounds super weird but the fact that this guy talked about this in the early 90s and then this is the exact video that the pentagon refers to that you actually see these objects that they can't explain that don't give off a heat signal that move in this exact same way at spectacular rates of speed and then that's how the tick tock craft worked too right well i mean yeah i i yeah it's yeah there's a there's a leap there necessarily that you got to make i don't want to make that leap either i know what you're saying for years i was like it's all horse [ __ ] yeah i mean i'm not you know again i'm not saying could happen i'm just saying there's certain parts of this like like okay harry reid talking about it well look harry reid was you know was uh he was very interested in this stuff he you know he uh allocated some some federal funds uh to one of his buddies in in uh nevada to you know create a uh sort of a center you know for examining this and for developing space exploration capabilities um so harry reid is certainly interested in this they i i talked to uh louis elizondo who ran atep right and you don't really get that answer when you say okay lou was atip holding on to materials you know that uh came from uh alien craft um no you know what they're saying maybe it was an a-tip that was involved in that maybe it wasn't yeah yeah you know that's that okay yeah i get that and again i guess i guess what i'm saying is i'm i'm open to say yeah fine like anything can anything's possible i suppose in this world uh the things that i do know is it's you know it's i have a really hard time believing the government could keep this all buttoned up over a period of time um a genuine ridicule factor that would help i mean that's that's a part of the whole things about all all the ufo stories they're so ridiculous well that's why um you know that's why i set up a tip to begin with right was so you know that they could have sort of a legitimate outlet um and a place for this to go but yeah fravor himself talks about it look it's not in their best interest to to get back on the carrier and say by the way we spotted an unidentified flying object but they did and um yeah and you're right so that's the natural tendency is is to kind of look the other way or roll your eyes and that's and that can act as a deterrent yeah i i you know i don't know i just but i do think that um it bears further investigation there's no doubt about that um and i think that the a-tip program uh that the pentagon was running you know for the minimal cost of that compared to the cost of another air asset or you know a platform of some sort i think they should have kept it going right and they should have normalized to some degree because it's in our national security interest to know have the russians or have others developed materials right or propulsions everybody's working on you know new propulsion systems right everybody that has the ability and resources so hypersonic crafter that's that's just coming right that's that's going to happen and whoever wins that particular race is going to be further up the food chain than everybody else so it's in our national interest to be exploring any legitimate or potentially legitimate sighting to understand what that is that doesn't mean you're chasing ufos or sort of spacecraft from from other it just means you should know what the hell that is or what's out there so i'm a big proponent of that i'm just saying also you have to proceed with caution you know for sure i mean i feel like the new normal that we're experiencing right now in the pandemic human it really illuminated to me how easily human beings adapt to things we adapt to everything we really do we just accept it well this is the new thing we we exist like phones we just see we accept the fact that we just always have a phone on us now i mean when you and i were growing up there's no [ __ ] phones right did you have a fight you got phones on the wall right i mean with a cord sure right and if you were lucky you had a long cord so you could take the phone away from your parents when you talk to your friends we had the dial and then we got when we got the push button phones i thought we were the living [ __ ] right you got the push button you were a rock star yeah push button man and then you'd get ever you know you take that phone if you got a call from your girlfriend whoever you yeah when you were younger you just go and try to get as far away from your parents as you could you know and whisper yeah i can't remember i can't tell when they came up with star 69 yeah you remember that yeah somebody called you and they hung up you press star 69 and call them right back yeah like hey [ __ ] i got new technology yeah what do you want yeah but you first use that people like how'd you get my number i start 690 [ __ ] now everybody's gotta everybody's got one of these including mugsy my youngest which oh by the way i told him i would mention this uh the oldest boy scooter who's just turned 13 he he uh he walked by uh yesterday before i got on a plane and he said where you going i said i'm going to los angeles why are you going to los angeles and i said well i got a couple of meetings and i'm going to sit down with uh with rogan and you know he's watched some of your podcasts and and and i'm sorry yeah only the good ones uh that were the appropriate ones the age-appropriate ones yeah there are none and uh but he says ah he says great now as we're having this conversation uh about you muggsy walked by and he's uh eight years old and he walks by and he stops he listens for a second he goes rogan and i said yeah he says you're gonna see rogan and i said yeah and he looks for a second he goes don't know who he is turns around walks away and i thought yeah that's it that's what i'm going to tell joe that's perfect but even muggsy's got a uh even he's got a phone right and how old is he he's uh eight just actually actually just turned nine right you're on the phone well you know about to get mauled by a bear well yeah that's important or lifted off the ground by a hawk uh or a ufo yeah oh god yeah well that's the other thing is it's like you know again the idea that they've we've had visitors from another planet they just um decided they got bored with us or something i don't know and decided not to [ __ ] it it's not worth it i'd who i don't think they're doing that i think they're waiting for us to [ __ ] up hugely that's what i think the house 2020 what how much more time do they need i think they're closing in yeah they're like these [ __ ] are really close to entering war with china or syria or iran yeah well the china thing yeah who knows we haven't even talked to i know everybody yeah whenever they hear i'm going to be doing this i'm sure they probably think i'm going to come on and bash china but china thing is an interesting one right i mean it is a very interesting one right now because china's been buying up a lot of a lot of assets when they realized that the pandemic was kicking in and there's a lot of companies that are china's owns a large stake in them now yeah yeah i know it's look they again they tick tock's about to get banned tick-tock that's going to piss off my middle boy slugo he's uh well facebook coincidentally facebook or instagram i should say is about to release reels which is their version of tick tock remember how they like they [ __ ] [ __ ] blocked oh snapchat with the instagram stories well they're about to [ __ ] block tick tock with uh instagram reels and then they're gonna lure all the kids over to reels yeah well that's the thing when by the time we get you know i'm sure it happens with your kids by the time you you get hip to whatever trend they got i just i just said hip to whatever trend the kids have they're two trends down the road yeah tick tock is old school right right they don't give a [ __ ] anymore yeah they're doing some new stuff but the thing about the tick tock thing that's interesting for this is the tin foil hat part put put that on again there's always been this talk that facebook helped trump win the election yeah and uh they have been the least reluctant the most reluctant i should say to censor trump stuff and and there's a lot of people that think that mark zuckerberg is in some way or facebook is in some way responsible for getting trump elected because they benefit from all the interaction they benefit from it's one of the last places where conservatives can freely discuss things and not except the hydroxychloroquine thing they've taken that down um but facebook owns instagram and instagram has reels and if tick tock if trump comes in right reels has not been released yet correct i don't think so i think it's early august which is like any minute now okay right so where are we the third what is today the third yeah it's the third so if they come along and they they ban tick-tock and introduce reels at the same time i'm gonna be a little a little suspicious yeah yeah no i i agree with that but i think what's gonna happen is is i think they're gonna orchestrate a deal microsoft will take over uh at least the us operate with u.s canada what australia um new zealand you know they'll take over those operations of tick tock um i don't know why that would be particularly appealing to microsoft unless they take the whole global community of tick tock users right which is whatever 800 million you know i mean there's got maybe 80 to 90 million or so in the u.s but i think they want to get a deal done by september sometime so microsoft has missed the ball when it comes to mobile i mean they [ __ ] up they they made some critical errors that they could have had a windows phone that was as big as the iphone they were right there they had their had their phone that looked like windows 10 where it had the little little tiles and you could like i remember i was at the uh the ice house and some guy had a windows phone and i was like what is that and he's like it's the windows phone he's showing me i go that looks pretty [ __ ] dope i go how do you like it he goes i like it a lot and then never went anywhere we're talking like this is like 2 000 and when did they come out with a windows phone 2008 or some [ __ ] something like that and they just decided it wasn't worth the revenue stream it wasn't worth the iphone came out if i remember correct in 2007 i want to say 2007. okay i think the windows phone was right after that they just [ __ ] up 2010 the iphone came out the windows the windows okay so a few years later and uh they just dropped the ball they never uh really caught on and this is back when android was really cool and that happens quick too though because if you if you don't get in on the market right yep pretty quick it's it's you know you're you're always playing catch up yeah but uh but now you're right i mean i you know it's i look at uh i look at the technology i look at the phones and and i'm not super excited about my kids having phones but at the same time then it becomes it's less so during a pandemic but it becomes a security issue in terms of i want to be able to track them and know where they are and short of microchipping the kids you know and the phone is a pretty good way to know where they are uh you just have to as a parent you just gotta be on lockdown all the time with them right because it's just uh you know it's it's a window into a lot of [ __ ] that you don't want kids of that age to be paying attention to right exactly i mean literally the whole world basically yeah yeah you give your kid a phone you're basically they have the internet yeah everything yeah yeah including clicking on things that put viruses and you know all sorts of malware on their computer on the the on their phones yeah no it's and that's you know that again obviously that brings us back around to tick tock a little bit but um yeah i it is interesting the the relationship that we're in right now people would we're having a conversation the other day about are we in a cold war already with china and the answer is yes i mean you know it's we don't have nukes pointing at each other necessarily the way we did during the soviet days but yeah we're in it we're in a cold war with china right now and that's not necessarily a bad thing right as long as we deal with it properly right and um you know developing uh better trade protocols developing a better understanding of of their agenda their interests that's a good thing as long as you know as long as we do it again uh uh properly yeah so china scares the [ __ ] out of me yeah you know i was watching a video the other day of the uyghur muslims and what what they're doing and rounding these people up and forcing them on trains it's like it's terrifying it's like what are they doing and they have no accountability they don't they don't have to no no g literally has set himself up we talk about putin's you know saying himself as president for life but she literally has set himself up as president for life now now if the chinese economy you know goes sideways in a big way yeah all bets are off right and and he may not be as stable as he's been thinking but he's spent years now uh in strengthening and and uh uh building up the intel apparatus within china you know for his own purposes um and further moving away from this idea that somehow china was going to have a rule of law i think that doesn't exist there i mean look they [ __ ] over the people of hong kong and we hardcore could have cared less right we were all everybody was all upset and angsty and protesting about hong kong and oh my god we got we stand united with the hong kong protesters and then we got you know up our own asses because we're all rightly so worried about the pandemic and you know oh a guy with an election coming in november and you know while we're all looking that way you know she saw an opportunity and just [ __ ] them over right and this issue warrants for us citizens yeah yeah that's just and there's really no consequence i mean so far anyway there's uh you know a few you know talks of sanctions and and you know some but it doesn't mean anything they essentially use the pandemic to decide to impose the same sort of restrictive laws that they have in the rest of china with hong kong yeah where hong kong used to be under british law and then was it 97 and transferred over to china yeah and it was going to be 2047 was kind of that was the the playing field they had in hong kong up until 2047. what kind of goofy-ass deal did they negotiate where they gave it up in 97 so stupid well uh yeah i mean they they they really yeah they didn't they really didn't have an option so they felt that they were they were negotiating as best they could um there was a sense i think uh at the time that look we either do this and guarantee some runway for the people of hong kong with some uh pseudo-democracy democracy or you know china's just gonna say [ __ ] you get the hell out and it's ours i don't think china would have done that because look they they they need hong kong as a legitimate financial capital right but i think what's gonna happen now given what they've just recently done is you know they're gonna turn hong kong at best into a a pass-through for hard currency basically and you know you're gonna see a lot of people moving out um not just you know not just expats and and and you know financial institutions you're going to see a lot of of uh of the more successful and educated uh hong kong citizens who are running businesses there who have been running businesses they're saying [ __ ] it it's not worth it yeah um and so you know i think the chinese in the china chinese regime i think has probably [ __ ] themselves over in a way but it's just an indication of of xi's mindset right he doesn't he doesn't really care and and it's just like their buildup of military capabilities in the south pacific uh they're working in cyber activity uh they're continuing hoovering up intellectual property it's not going to stop them you know i mean now if it's better that we do make an effort it's better that we do you know put sanctions on them for a variety of reasons including the uyghurs but will it change overall will it change their their behavior probably not it's so weird so weird to watch it happen it's just it's a it's something that people weren't really terrified of 10 years ago they weren't worried about china taking over the world but now it seems like it's a real possibility yeah and in fact they weren't it wasn't that they weren't worried about it they were looking at china like you know it's a great marketplace you know this is where we need to be now and you could argue that tech companies still do that right the tech companies they don't look at china you know as a threat to national security they look at china as a as an opportunity right and they they always have so that explains in part you know sort of their behavior towards uh the china chinese regime um but yeah make no doubt about it they she's got his eyes set on being at the top of the food chain yeah so you know we can either deal with it or we can pretend it doesn't exist you think they're going to ban more companies the same way they ban huawei um well it depends on what happens in in november right um i guarantee you the chinese government would like to see biden win and oh yeah absolutely i mean if if you know as would you know for their own reasons um i think you know and this people people who who subscribe to the trump as putin's puppet will scoff at this idea but look the russians i think would prefer to see biden win as well right i mean they get back to business as usual uh probably ease up on the sanctions um you know the left the hard left anyway has been very successful over the years at this this russian narrative right and um and fine it worked for them you know they'd spent three years in this in this uh in it's you know pushing this this particular narrative and but i think i think overall the chinese the russians they would prefer to see uh someone like biden come in i think they feel like it would be a more uh collegial approach from the white house less confrontational um and i think that's just where we're at look i mean you know uh bill uh bill gates bob gates uh used to be the director of the agency right and he worked for a couple of administrations um and yeah he said himself that biden's never been on the right side of a foreign policy decision right so that's one area where again going back to what we talked about earlier is you know if he's going to choose a vice president i'd rather he choose somebody who's got as much national security and foreign policy experience as possible because i think that's one area where he's going to be lacking even though he says oh i've worked in foreign policy all my life it doesn't mean anything just because you were there doesn't mean you've got good judgment or you know anyway yeah whatever do you think it's do you think that the the policies that trump's put in place for china are actually beneficial to united states do you think it's a good step yeah i do i do because it's put them on the back of china i mean it's put them on the back foot right that's not a bad thing uh made them a little less sure about you know what they're doing they've had to think about things a little bit more they haven't had yeah the sanctions um i wish that we would sanction them hard for the uyghurs i wish we would sanction them very hard for what they've done in hong kong um i'd like to see that happen i think what we're seeing now though is obviously the pandemic has deflected a lot of attention and also you know the closer you get to any presidential election the less [ __ ] gets done you know just so i don't know that anything meaningful is going to happen over the course of the next handful of months um and who knows what the [ __ ] going to happen in november what do you think is going to happen i agree with you when you said earlier that hey you can't believe the polls right so i don't believe the polls i think people are tired of the who are exhausted from just sort of the general drama of having somebody like trump in the office so i think there's a potential for a lot of people who may like the policies or some of the policies and prefer them to a hard left agenda or a left agenda i think there's a chance for them to say oh [ __ ] it i just i'm too tired and i i don't want that and maybe they'll look at ed biden and think yeah it's a return to some normalcy will there be debates yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i'll bet there ends up being one well yeah if there's a debate yeah that's where it all falls apart yeah that's where the wheels come off get ready get ready to [ __ ] get trump campaign manager we want more debates against biden and sooner the first one september 29th maybe they're probably pumping biden up with steroids and alpha brain right now could you probably be in a lab somewhere they got a vat from on it it goes right into a [ __ ] iv i think i heard there's something like 16 states that would already technically be done yeah or done by voting by september 29th so they want to try to have some before that but i think they're only supposed to have three or something that's crazy say that one more time 16 states could be finished by that time 16 states who already have voted because they're doing it with mail-in ballots yeah yeah this is going to be so strange this is going to be such a contested election no matter what and i'm really worried about the chaos that could ensue after it's over well think about that and that's that's a i mean look i'm a big fan of going to the voting booth you know actually getting out driving or walking going pulling the [ __ ] lever so can't they do it outside yeah i mean obviously you know weather permitting but you know fine dude you know i think the problem is look until trump talked about you know the problems with the post office uh and you know the mail delivery and the idea that we're gonna have mail-in ballots as opposed to absentee ballots you know before that you know what nine out of 10 people that's not statistically accurate but i'm sure a lot of people would have said the [ __ ] postal system they can't deliver the mail right right and but now because trump comes out and says it's going oh my god i love the postal system and i'm he's trying to destroy the postal system and i'm big enough it's like what he did with hydroxychloroquine right right look and i've ordered hydroxychloroquine through the mail it hasn't arrived uh so what am i to think but so i but can you imagine if we have an election where you do this and then you don't know the results for five or six or seven days because they're still counting balance right and oh my god that's yeah can you imagine what that that reporting's gonna be like and all the paranoia on both sides the right and the left going up you know exactly what um the whole thing is how about that period of time it's [ __ ] crazy it's really it's really crazy oh god right wing like the really nutty conspiracy folks how are they going to handle that yeah well that's yeah that's it and and you got you got people on both sides right crazy's not limited to one part of the spectrum so you got people on both sides and and if you the beauty of the elections in the past have been by the end of the night you've got a winner right and now if you don't know and you can't tell me that and it's not it you know i'm just i'm just saying the realities are you got to be pragmatic you want to go with all you know mail ballots or whatever hey just be aware of the fact that you could have a lot of problems a lot of disqualified ballots because of a variety of reasons a lot of lost ballots a lot of people and so if if if what you want to do is sow chaos right and and dissent and and further this divide then yeah that's a pretty good way to do it yeah or you can figure out how to [ __ ] get everybody to the ballots right and to the polling booths and make that happen just [ __ ] do it right and if you want to have ballot uh voting booths where people wear masks and you know and hazmat suits and everything fine right but figure out a way to get people to the voting booth because i and it's not i don't you know it's i don't think that the mail-in thing is is could be wrought with fraud like the white house you know like trump is you know it could be you know lots of fraud i i i think it's just pragmatic says you could have a lot of logistical problems yeah so well i don't understand why they can't vote online why can you bank online but you can't vote online how's that not yeah and the thing is if you could vote online if people didn't have to physically go to a place you know how many more people would vote it'd probably be insane because what is the number now like what percentage of people now vote is it like 40 it's yeah somewhere in the 40 percentile i bet we get that [ __ ] up to 70. yeah i bet we get up pretty high if you could register on your phone and vote on your phone my god why can't you do that well there's uh there's security issues related to that as we all know in terms of the hijacking of the uh or the security of the of the uh system that would be in place people who click on every [ __ ] link someone sends them a text message yeah yeah what's this click there is that ah uh no i i i agree with you in the sense that it would theoretically it would it would improve the turnout for sure and it would certainly make life easier for a lot of people i just don't i as with and again my issue with the mail isn't isn't the fraud issue so much as just the logistics of it right and that and that that that delay yeah and and also the potential to have a lot of ballots just being disqualified or being put in question uh the same thing with online voters i'm worried about the chaos i'm worried about the civil unrest really i really think that that could be the big one i think we should you know what if i i think if congress would do its job they would just say you know what the elections are coming they're going to be right on time and you're going to go to your voting polling places and we're going to put in place uh special times for elderly citizens to vote if they want to have a super safe environment they can only vote like just like you do at costco costco in our area had like 7 to 9 a.m was only for people over 60 right fine if costco can do that [ __ ] i'm pretty sure we could do that with with voting booths yeah why would uh how hard would just make it happen but but again it's it's do temperature checks especially distance everybody everybody wears a mask do it right give it plenty of time set up enough booths and if you want to do it over a two-day period fine why not but at least you're at least you're establishing protocols that are are are yeah i don't know how about i worry about the chaos i mean if you're gonna let people vote by mail in september how about let them show up at the polls that early as well so you really could socially distance everybody you really could absolutely ensure that everybody's safe yeah just spread it out yes over a designated period of time we have five business days you need to have like open scoring like a boxing match it would be [ __ ] tremendous as you roll up on the voting booth you got the numbers right up there so it's like a jerry lewis go in here and fix this yeah goddamn hippies you're gonna elect that biden he can't even talk damn it yeah trump's a dictator of the marxists trump's a dictator he's not gonna leave the white house if he loses do you understand that we're going to have civil war that man won't leave he's a tyrant yeah i just wish there was somebody i could get behind i wish there was somebody that just made sense somebody just like that stood out and she's like that's our guy or girl yeah that's the person condoleezza rice and nikki haley i would like to see that team um yeah i mean for the republicans i know that yeah demps on the damn side they go up no that wasn't right but that would have been a night that would have been a good team well once if trump does lose or if it goes to you know if he makes it to 2024 that's going to be real weird because who is next in line there you know i've been telling dan crenshaw he needs to run but he's a young fellow yeah he's got plenty of time yeah yeah i think who knows he's a very reasonable republican though yeah yeah yeah i mean like that's and that's again that's pence is waiting on a sign from jesus yeah he's but he's he would be the you know if trump wins uh you know he would be the yeah yeah the next guy theoretically if he wants it well uh i mean some guys don't want it right like al gore yeah that did not gore wanted oh he did he did kind of want it he wanted it then yeah um i i don't know i just think i think if we we're not going to walk the dog back right so it's not like i keep talking about centrists and moderates in both parties and that's just not going to [ __ ] happen so you know we have what we have we're not going to get a third party that's going to be legitimate um and so what can we do what what sort of things could be done that could change the dynamic or at least get us more likely to have centrist candidates willing to work with each other and i keep going back to the same things which are term limits and campaign finance reform but then i think well that's just never going to happen because it's not in their self-interest and so you know aliens aliens i think you're right i think you're right that's what we need in a few months time when they come out and go it's yeah it's not just aircraft that we uh we've recovered it's we need to wake up the actual aliens big you know it's interesting the beginning of the pandemic i was really hopeful one of the reasons i was really hopeful is this people seemed nicer it was like post 9 11 yeah when everybody was concerned and you know they just they just felt like there was more humanity in the air and i felt like that at the beginning of the pandemic people were nicer they were more polite they were they were really they were feeling fear and they realized like hey you know what's really important health and family and your loved ones and people you care about that's really important so we're all gonna lock down and we're gonna stay at home and you know me and my family we didn't go anywhere man we just played games and we watched movies every night and there was you know in a lot of ways it was a bonding experience you know we had a lot of good times together we cooked all our meals at home right because we couldn't go out to dinner and we just stayed at home and and played and we're very fortunate that we have a yard and we have you know a dog and we went swimming and right right you know it wasn't that bad it was it was it's just you know it was a time to be thankful and i felt like i felt like that for my neighbors too it's like we're we were all in that together yeah no i agree i think and that was that that you know only lasts for a short period of time um and then it's it's you know what it's like i always equate it to uh like a a power outage you know that's right you know in a community everybody's kind of pulling together you all sort of it's sort of like you're camping you know for a few hours yeah for a few hours and then everybody's down to home depot fighting over the last generator and everybody's worried about toilet paper and bullets yeah toilet paper that was a weird [ __ ] the weirdest [ __ ] my friend duncan had was it no tom green tom green had a really good point he's like i think what happens is toilet paper takes up a large amount of space on the shelf so when toilet paper starts going away people see that empty space and they start panicking like oh my god i need toilet paper because if you have like a thousand people trying to get toilet paper in a supermarket you're not gonna it doesn't work no no i was i was i was stunned i will i didn't see that coming um you know we we usually we tend to have a pretty good stocked uh pantry and and uh you know the silo is full but uh you have a silo no i just i just said that [ __ ] is it right next to your bunker it is it is got it yeah it's go out there get some corn um but uh yeah i couldn't believe it we walked into the local uh albertsons uh and shelves are bare no toilet paper weird i thought what the [ __ ] up with people you know just buy what you need and i never thought we'd have a run on on on paper goods but uh and so it didn't take very long but i agree with that initial period of time you know we were worried about our elderly neighbors you know can we get them anything are you worried about your your your friends can you help them out in some way um and yeah it was you know i feel the same way we were very fortunate and that we could we could stay comfortably at home yeah uh and hang out with the boys and then uh and our three uh little dudes man you know after a couple of days you're thinking okay i gotta get outside i can't get out of here anymore um but uh i had a lot of friends change their opinion on the second amendment they were coming to me yeah i i had guys like beating around the bush so uh what do you have to do to get a gun like oh okay i have a real good friend uh and his wife is like you are never having a gun we're never having a gun in this house the moment the pandemic hit you have to get a gun we need a gun she was immediate we need a gun and he was laughing he's like she told me to go get a gun yeah we're on the phone go get one go go go go go go go go go go go go go get a gun i'm like that is so [ __ ] funny go to piggly wiggly or wherever you get your guns she's a good person she doesn't it's not that she's a bad person it's just her idea was that guns are for bad people and you have a gun in the house you're more likely to shoot each other and you don't need that in your life and you know and i think a lot of those friends that i have who have wives like that they look at me like i'm a caveman like oh this [ __ ] he likes to shoot elk with a bow and arrow and he's always shooting guns and he says he's a liberal but i don't even believe him yeah i'm like look there's the same reason why i know how to fight self-defense is [ __ ] important like if some [ __ ] goes down i mean how many goddamn videos you've seen where two people are in a fight and neither one of them knows how to how to fight oh my god it's a schoolyard slap fight that's terrible yeah terrible i don't want to be that guy no i work with my boys to tell them the same thing i said look this is what we have and so we spend a fair amount of time on it i'm not creating bullies no i'm creating guys that can defend themselves their brothers and their friends right and if you if you see that and and you need to take a stand then you need to know what the hell you're going to do otherwise you're going to get smashed in the face and you're not going to like it my kids are allowed to hit me not my 23 year old she hits [ __ ] hard she can hit hard she's really powerful but my 10 year old my 10 year old leg kicks me at least once a day i taught her the spot to hit and she [ __ ] digs in with the shin yeah yeah oh my god she hurts me a little ten-year-old girl well they're they're they're leveraged at that height you know they're yeah well she knows how to do it too she's been doing it she was i mean i enrolled her in martial arts when she was five years old okay so here she is at ten she she knows how to kick yeah so she's like she'll like put her dukes up like go ahead go ahead get in there and she's slammed she slams that [ __ ] in there it is terrifying how hard a 10 year old can kick you in your leg yeah it [ __ ] hurts man my problem is i i you know they'll they'll they lay in weight right you know like i did mugsy punched me in the junk one time drop me to my knees i [ __ ] you not he just he literally i wasn't even expecting i turned around he came around the corner he caught me right in the junk i was on my knees gasping as you do right it's a it's a it's happened a few times and it's always it never feels any different and uh and he sat there or he didn't sat there he stood there and he laughed maniacally and then he wandered off and i thought good god but it was a hell of a shot it's not a good spot to get hit when i was uh younger i was convinced that i was sterile i was like there's no way i could be having kids i've been kicked in the balls i don't know a hundred times like no no no [ __ ] by grown men i've been kicked in the balls a hundred times i'm like there's no way my balls work those [ __ ] batter things yeah those guys poor nuggets i should have known though i have muscles though like my testosterone works i was like my balls probably work too yeah yeah you know i just survived yeah yeah i just assumed they were just a [ __ ] bomb shelter but i've had the same i've had people you know say the same thing it's like what would you recommend you know for for home defense and you know what and it is and it's it's been a remarkable increase in the past three to four months isn't it nutty like 40 increase or something crazy like that yeah i mean and it makes to me it makes sense i mean you know they realize yeah i mean why wouldn't you i mean you you know your home defense it just it's it's it's a pretty basic thing but it is it is surprising i do have friends who the same way who would like to purchase uh something for you know for for that purpose but uh their spouses are like no absolutely not even even still even still find a new spouse yeah because if your lives depend on it it's saving your family's life and you realize at that moment that you were wrong you're like you could get a gun safe okay it's not it's not hard to keep everything safe you just have to be diligent you have you could be intelligent you do the right thing you know you keep them locked up it's not that hard folks it's really not but it does come down to again the the the problem is always the people that buy have no education and then don't train exactly and those are the people that are dangerous right and they're dangerous to themselves they're dangerous to their kids and it's hard to train yeah i mean it's hard to be depending on where you're at yeah the thing is like you know some places have basic firearm safety that you have to pass i mean i think i had a pass like a fell out of [ __ ] like a multiple choice it's easy right but they do sorry it's multiple choice yes yes no [ __ ] but what they don't do is you you don't have to show physical proficiency there's places that you have to go where if you want to bow hunt okay yeah you have to be able to hit i think it's like a paper plate size target you have to be able to hit like x amount of arrows at i think it's 30 yards or something like that in order for them to pass you for a boat but some place is not it's not consistent and but with handguns and guns you can just go buy one you just if you pass that test no one i mean you have to know like on paper what you're not supposed to do but in terms of like showing any sort of proficiency or i mean how many people have guns and they've never even shot them they don't know which way is safe and that's the worst thing you can do so if you're going to do that then don't get one i'm a big believer in that no just don't don't buy one unless you're going to practice yeah and you're going to constantly work that mechanism but you know i've taken a handful of concealed carry courses in the past uh and a couple of times just out of curiosity to see what they're doing and the training is or the the courses are they're not that good right and then you know they they spend a fair amount of time on the legal issues right because there's a that's a big you know carrying a weapon uh is a pain in the ass right it's a real pain in the ass and it's and it's fraught with potential problems and that's and then you see difficulties because people don't understand the the ramifications of it they don't understand that it's you know it's it's not fun it's just it's a it's i don't have a big responsibility big responsibility huge but you're right the typical training uh depending on where you're at in certain places it's very difficult to to go out regularly get to the range once a week which is what you should be doing yeah yeah you really should i mean when i take a week off and i go to the range i feel a little rusty like my first few shots i feel a little rusty yeah it's it's muscle memory but it doesn't it deteriorates unlike some things right it's it deteriorates quicker for you know for a variety of reasons but [Music] god i can't emphasize it enough so all those people that have rushed out in the past four months to buy weapons you better be exercising that thing yeah please find a place where you can go please and learn yeah and i mean even if you don't if you don't shoot and you make sure you understand how how to tell if there's not a round in the chamber understand dry firing aim it even if you're just going to dry fire like i have friends that are competitive shooters that if they don't shoot every day they dry fire for 30 minutes every day yeah you know they practice yeah and it's also you know understanding the mechanism right understanding the the the machine and and and so spend time right take it apart put it together take it apart put it together just keep doing that cleaning it all those things help you become more aware and and and it also builds a sense of of responsibility right it makes you understand uh the importance of of handling it properly and and storing it properly uh so yeah this so we sound like a uh like a gun store a public announcement yeah yeah like a gun store i wanna talk to you about remote viewing ah ah men who stare at goats yeah you're gonna do are you gonna do uh an episode of that for your top what's the television show again oh uh thank you for asking uh it's black files declassified i'm not sure if it's on the discovery science science channel yeah and we uh we've just uh we've we've had an order for a second season congratulations great yeah thank you um so we'll be doing uh at least uh eight new episodes here um filming you do one on that yeah remote viewing that's the plan we're putting together the show map um you know it it falls in the category of once again kind of like we talked about with mk ultra um the idea being initially uh it was a defensive concern over what what are our enemies doing right and so the concepts behind uh remote viewing much like the concepts behind understanding behavioral conditioning or um you know false memories creating new memories it started because we were concerned about what the enemy was up to and the enemy being the soviets in the old days and the chinese uh so what do i think about it eh um a cynic i guess is the best way to put it yeah i'm not necessarily buying the idea of of uh remote viewing of sort of how we want to refer to it mind control but i understand why there's or there was interest i understand why there were programs designed to try to figure this out who's the granddaddy of that stuff this is one guy who's famous what's his name uh i remember from the art bell show yeah god uh jamie you'll get it before i was like yeah you know what i'll bet the agency made me forget that he's a little fella i was gonna i was about to recall and then suddenly i couldn't you got him oh that's not him yeah it dames that's yeah ego swan is the guy who invented it though oh he's just a different guy um so ed dames is the guy that i met yeah i met him you met him yeah see if he's still alive because i'm going to talk [ __ ] about him if he's not is he nice guys let's find out what kind of condition he's in before he's in a very nice yeah very nice guy believe it at that [Laughter] yeah i didn't i didn't believe it i didn't buy it but he was telling me that they they actually got some actionable data from his remote viewing sessions that they used uh i believe they used for bin laden he was saying i'm like yeah again look i do i think that there's certain things you can do to to to train your mind to perform better i think yes absolutely yeah sure right so no no no um so yeah i think it's look they they had a program the military had a program for quite some time called super soldier and it looked at a variety of things right in concert with some various intel community agencies and i looked at a variety of things including um the issue of remote viewing but mostly what they were looking at is how do you enhance performance out in the field how do you make a soldier you know stronger smarter safer faster all these things and ultimately where they settled was essentially technology right i mean this issue of of you know they ended up on um things like the x suit and other things that can enhance so skeletons yeah exactly it can enhance your your abilities to exist and and to uh you know to uh hump [ __ ] out in the field and and but also you know you say hump you mean carry carry stuff yeah yeah yeah yeah it could be really clear [Music] sitting in the safe house in san francisco in the 60s watching some hooker humps i'm john on lsd um good guy think about how weird that must have been so weird bunch of freaks and you can kind of do whatever you wanted because you're the government yeah you've got a green light to do this well guys like sydney gottlieb who was the head of that operation and guys like george white knows i'm sure they couched what they were doing because i knew you know once it veered off into those whole unwitting testing and all the rest of the [ __ ] they were doing you know that they knew they were aware sydney gotlieb was a very complex individual right and but he knew what he was doing but that ability to couch in terms of you know we're fighting an existential threat so we're doing this for national security i mean it i think it can kind of make it easier for a person to to overlook sort of the questions the ethical questions because you're doing it for you know patriotic reasons but you've got nukes pointed at you from the other side and you legitimately feel like okay we're gonna do this anyway i'm not sure where i was going with that but uh yeah the uh the idea of super soldier fascinating stuff how far they've gotten with the exoskeleton [ __ ] well i mean they've got several prototypes a handful of companies out there um russians have deployed what are they used for for a power source uh well say that's part of the problem uh batteries and battery technology being what it is it's still a problem yeah and that's it and whoever comes up with the the better battery always wins right and so um what they've found so far anyways and they've got they've got uh some prototypes that don't rely on batteries at all right that it just uh uh use of of essentially spring technology and you know it it's taking pressure off of the key joints allowing you to lift heavier and that's really where these things have come into play so far you're not seeing super soldiers out in you know the combat you know fighting each other and you know running at high speeds and carrying loads of [ __ ] you're seeing it in fairly pedestrian ways so far in in logistics right and and you know the guys that are loading trucks right and and they're doing that in 120 degree heat and need some help right so the exoskeletons have been very successful in that regard um other technology though uh information um and and how information flows to the warfighter right so um sort of the google glass concept and what they're what they're doing with that augmented reality augmented reality but the ability to feed information to the soldier um you know in in in real time um and then also to take information from the soldier in terms of their their uh their bio feedback and you know blood pressure uh heart rate that sort of thing to a lot that's all very very important stuff the problem is sometimes you can as you know you can overload that individual right when when [ __ ] hits the fan and everything starts to shut down you don't necessarily want a lot more information coming in sometimes right because you're you're focusing right and so all this data you know sometimes that's not particularly helpful but the ability to do it in the proper situation is very is very important so there's a lot of research still going into that um it's just that the early days of you know remote viewing and other ways of of creating a a different type of warfighter you know they're you know it's more a pedestrian effort right now um again russians are you know engaged in the same thing the chinese are engaged in the same thing uh just like we're all engaged in the race for hypersonic uh unmanned vehicles and weapons i'm worried about genetic manipulation because i'm worried that we're not going to do it but they're going to do it first and that like the idea of a super soldier like using crispr or some of these gene editing tools that that actually could be real that you i mean you like in a place like china where you don't get to decide what you do for a living they really could recruit a large number of people and and sort of develop soldiers in that regard yeah and i think that's i i don't think that's in the realm of the impossible i don't think it's not being done i i would be sure yeah exactly exactly i'm thinking like 50 years from now like when we're like is it ethical should we do this and you have a bunch of senators debating it meanwhile in china they're [ __ ] full steam ahead yeah and i think and here's where it's interesting is because you know again people listening or there'll be some folks listening going well you know come on [ __ ] ethical the u.s of course the u.s government's doing it and um but we are fundamentally different yes mk altruist as we were talking about it yeah that was a horrendous you know uh situation right went right off the rails uh shouldn't happen uh was exposed right which is all by itself uh an indication of of how we're different right from uh from the russians or from the chinese you think the chinese are gonna hold some um in in you know uh in their in in their committee hearings you know they're going to call to the carpet the pla intel operators and say well what have you been doing oh my god this is terrible or the russians are going to do that putin's going to call the fsb and and throw them out there in a in a committee hearing no [ __ ] so when people want to talk about how the u.s is engaging well okay yeah we've been off the rails at times we do tend to try to self-correct whichever administration's in charge but uh more importantly we do have and we've you know and i hope we maintain it we have had a track record of transparency to yeah again to you know compare it to our is it 100 transparent no should it be no but compared to our those others yeah we're we do a pretty good job yeah yeah so i i would agree um so this remote viewing did they ever get anything out of it was there any data that was there anybody was there ever anyone who was really good at it or better at it was there anything to it no so how does it still how's this still a subject it captures the imagination right i mean it's it's it's like how is manson still a subject well he's fascinating and it was a fascinating period of time remote viewing is i think it's it's fascinating it's kind of it's again it's like so it's like psychics they wanted to find like don't don't police still actually use psychics for certain like like they try to find bodies and [ __ ] is that a mystery mystery tv show or pbs or something i don't know you always hear about it i guess please bring in sidekicks i mean really yeah i don't know um you know a a very uh very good friend of mine who was uh homicide detective in in the uk's uh met police uh he works with me now in in uh in my business diligence diligence usa for all your information and security needs um he um never talked about a psychic ever being brought in and he handled a lot of cases yeah but when i i had asked him about that by disappointed but bring it up because i asked him no i don't believe so uh but uh yeah i nothing really i mean again maybe there's a file sitting in the retired records office of the agency you know and we're never going to see it um but uh as far as i've seen there was never any um record of success from it but it is i get why it's of interest and and why people are fascinated by it that makes sense yeah i mean it's like everything else it's like i guess the government had to find out whether or not mk ultra like when they were doing that like let's see there's only one way to find out well if you don't believe in it at all but it turns out to be true and there are a few people that have developed techniques like look hypnosis is real hypnosis is weird you know maybe there's something to this [ __ ] maybe if you just follow the right techniques and get yourself in the right mindset you have access to information that's not available any other way and hypnosis again was part of the mk ultra sub projects right and it's because there was concern that you know the enemy had this research or that they were making headway and so again a lot of things that develop initially it's because it's a defensive response because we learned something about what uh some hostile entity is doing and then you have to move immediately to okay well do we need this for offensive purposes because if they're doing it do we need to have that capability right so and i'd always argue with with certainly you go into the realm of cyber warfare yeah you better have that capability uh you know both sides well that's where things like that neural link technology is very interesting because if it really if if somehow or another you really can communicate with someone who's not there without using any words which is what elon said to me because you're going to be able to talk without using words well if you can do that at a distance like if you can literally guide someone like if say if you got someone who's on a mission in afghanistan and you you are watching on a satellite and you can guide them without giving them any noise without saying anything to them and you can give them all the data whether it's through automatic react augmented reality like glasses or something like that save a lot of lives and get a lot of jobs done oh no and they're doing that i mean they're you know uh aberdeen um and uh and and other areas i mean they're working on some pretty amazing technology right and so that ability to feed a lot of data like if you're about to go through a door right you rock up on some target you know and you need to know what the hell is going on and you've got that ability to to uh you know make that happen that's that's tremendous right it it makes for us a safer smarter better uh soldier out there and so and that's an important thing right because that actually saves lives like you said so um yeah but and so that is happening it's it's the it's the idea of you know communicating without you know it's the woo [ __ ] yeah that's that's the part that that may be further down the road than elon musk thanks you know did you have an open mind when you went into this remote viewing the discussion sort of i i you know i had a little crack in the door yeah yeah i did yeah i mean i i think you have to look nothing's 100 right it's like you were saying earlier right we always want to think we're absolutely right and i don't i don't ever assume i'm absolutely right on something unless it's two plus two right i mean okay that's that's pretty proven but but um so i think you have to go into anything and any any time you're gonna do an investigation you have to leave the door open a little bit for the unknowns but you do have to build what you're doing on something sound so you can't you don't want to base your your your decision making on just a theory or or an allegation or a belief right you've got it so every investigation needs to be built on something solid otherwise it's it's just falling apart and and so that's kind of where we you know uh did i mention black files to classified that's coming out that's that second season did i say that oh well in the pandemic world uh we probably won't be able to film until later this year yeah how do you film it yeah um can you just wear masks i'm gonna just wear it yeah i'll wear a mask yeah uh i'll just stand every episode i'll wear a different mask like a full overhead mask yeah it'll be fun uh yeah we'll figure it out we'll figure it out this i mean [ __ ] that's this entire town in los angeles has been dealing with that [ __ ] right yeah all these people out of work and production companies and all the independent contractors who don't have jobs because nothing's filming and nobody knows how to film and they don't want to you know they don't take on the insurance so it's hit that industry uh hard i know everybody's like oh my god it's hit the entertainment industry hard but uh i think what a lot of they're doing is quarantining people testing them and quarantining them forcing them to stay on set you know quarantine them in a hotel they've rented out things like things along those lines and i know tyler perry has been real successful at doing that but he's smart yeah he's got his own he's got his own studios he's got his own setup and he just has everybody locked down at the place where they're filming yeah but i mean all those all those people that that don't have that option right and they're just like i know a lot of folks are you know working as you know camera operators or sound men or just you know anything in the business and they're just yeah they're [ __ ] so well for the longest time the ufc was the only sports entity that was uh functioning i mean and we've been doing shows at the ufc for several months now yeah yeah that would which is a good and you know okay it lends itself to certain activity like the nba now they can operate in this bubble yeah right but baseball yeah you know i don't think football is going to happen but i mean it's it's interesting uh everybody was so hopeful yeah and they're like ah we'll get it sorted out by then yeah not really although my boy sluggo is he couldn't be happier he's a basketball freak and the fact that they're playing they're doing that yeah yeah like it's nice you know the audience or no audience at least people at home have something to watch you know i'm very thankful that ufc puts on all these fights yeah you know it's given me some interesting [ __ ] to watch what are you going to miss you're moving out of here what are you going to miss about ain't going to miss [ __ ] you haven't practiced that before i'm uh no i'm an impromptu kind of a guy i'm gonna miss the comedy store and i'm gonna miss my friends there's a lot of restaurants and a lot a lot of people i know out here that are good people i just uh i feel like this place is overwhelming and overcrowded and i've had enough and i like change it's exciting you know yeah my my next move will probably be montana after that i'm gonna go texas and then montana yeah don't come to idaho we're full man yeah that's right yeah don't come down we'll tell anybody i look forward to seeing you in in texas man yeah come visit me out there yeah i'll take you around yeah get you to some real barbecue yeah austin's a great austin's a great town and and all of texas is interesting i'm a fan of good cats i'm excited to go there yeah all right mike baker thank you very much sir next time i see you'll probably be in another state it'll be in texas are you kidding me i got like half a dozen pair of cowboy boots you kidding jamie's gonna buy something yeah he's excited about it look at him thanks man thank you brother bye everybody see you soon oh that was great yeah thanks man yeah that's good you

Channel: PowerfulJRE

Views: 3,592,144

Rating: 4.5001745 out of 5

Keywords: Joe Rogan Experience, JRE, Joe, Rogan, podcast, MMA, comedy, stand, up, funny, Freak, Party

Id: yR-GXnXw2wU

Length: 164min 50sec (9890 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 04 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/bonerpotpie]

Can’t wait to hear more about his kids Fucko, Chuggsy, and Bing Bong.

[u/GreatGracious]

I’d like to see a podcast of mike baker and micheal Shermer together.

I’d like to see the look on Shermers face when he says “no the cia wouldn’t do that” and baker says “yeah we totally did do that. It’s not a conspiracy.”

[u/wtf_is_up]

Very clever of the CIA to hide Joe's handler in plain sight.

[u/another_busted_robot]

This guy's demeanor and the way he says stuff in this kind of "hey, I'm just a simple everyman who barely understands technology" just seems so calculated and disingenuous.

[u/E4TclenTrenHardr]

Joe Rogan handwaving away the CIA testing drugs on unwitting Americans is some of the most fucked up shit I've heard this week.

[u/sb52191]

Joe needs to have someone on like Nate Silver who can explain polling and general statistics to him. Couple minutes in and he's saying he doesn't trust the polls because they're run by the mainstream media, but the beautiful thing about statistics is you don't have to trust the person doing the polling, you can check their methodology.

[u/Schmedit]

Former CIA operative Mike "I don't have a dog in the fight but the single bullet theory is absolutely true" Baker

[u/ApostateAardwolf]

Oh... goodie.

I can barely contain my lack of excitement at hearing the continued adventures of Scooter, Muggsey and Fucknut.

[u/Gwsmith220]

Why does this guy get so many appearances? It's weird... and you know his background. We need to swap the amount of Mike Baker appearances with Duncan appearances. We need this guy like every 18 months at a max.