Jocko Podcast 41 with Tony Eafrati - BTF BTF BTF BTF

this is Joo podcast number 41 with Eko Charles and me Joo willink good evening Eko good evening and tonight we are lucky to have a guest on the podcast my friend my teammate my brother tonyia fratty and I'm going to start the p by reading a speech that I wrote when Tony retired from the teams and for whatever reason some reason that I don't remember it was work or job or some travel or something I couldn't actually be there to read this myself and that's the way the teams is you do your job that's the priority and I knew Tony would understand that I wouldn't be there and it would be no big deal to him and I acted like it was no big deal to me but I wanted to be there and I should have been there and I wrote a speech and I emailed it to one of our one of our friends one of our Bros another seal Master Chief and he read it there but I should have been there to read it myself and you will hear that this speech is kind of like Tony is raw and straightforward and real and so here's the speech that I wrote for Tony when he retired here we go first of all I apologize to Tony that I couldn't be there out in the desert today to see you off and for those of you that are with him today know this Tony fratty is a hero a dirty Scrappy rough hard mean bastard but a hero I've known him for over 20 years and in those 20 years I got to see him in many capacities first as a young Hard Core Beer swilling muscle car driving machine gun and fist fighting third class petty officer then as an experienced hardcore Jack Daniels swelling fist fighting second class leading petty officer next as a badass hardcore fist fighting knowledge filled first class training cell instructor and finally as a seal platoon Chief and we all know that being a platoon Chief is supposed to mean that you're hardcore it's supposed to mean that you're experienced it's supposed to mean that you're a tough bastard it's supposed to mean that you're Fearless it's supposed to mean that you're a true leader of men unfortunately we all know that that isn't always true but with Tony it's 100% true Tony is without question the primordial seal Chief the ultimate senior enlisted leader when I joined the teams I joined to follow guys like Tony into unbridled combat into the violent fry into hell I was lucky enough to work with Tony when he was one of the platoon Chiefs in our task unit at Seal Team 3 from 2005 to 2006 task unit Bruiser we started our work up here in the desert the true forging ground of frog men with a couple years on me he was the oldest guy in The Troop and therefore the primary representative of the old breed and he represented the old breed with honor he immediately proved that he was physically harder mentally tougher and operationally Superior to any of the Young Bucks really it was August 115 plus degrees he didn't get tired he outshot everyone he ran immediate action drills like Irwin raml he didn't drink water seriously coffee in Copenhagen that's it and desert training was just the beginning he led every evolution through the entire workup always coming up with the plan always training and mentoring the new guys and everyone else we trained and we trained hard I drew a line in the sand Tony held that line we pushed the envelope in every evolution and prepared for war somehow some way we knew what the future held we deployed to radi Iraq in April of 2006 and to our absolute Joy it was an embroiled war zone we had been on the ground about a day when I went to meet the Bri the Brigade Commander Tony was already out in the city in a sniper OverWatch position as I walked into the Brigade tactical Operation Center and shook hands with the Colonel John gronky he said one of your snipers just killed an IED imp Placer up on Racetrack where we lost four four Marines three days ago and that is exactly what he needed us to do he needed us to kill them that sniper was Tony with the first kill of the deployment strategic due to its timing timing that opened up the entire battle space to task unit Bruiser and so we fought and fought and killed the Enemy by The Bushel And Tony was at the front the entire time he never wavered he never faltered despite the heat despite the danger despite heavy casualties he constantly pushed to get out over and over and over again to kill the Savages that were determined to destroy America and Coalition forces he never asked for a pause or a break or a night off or a minute off everything that I ever asked of him everything he did and he did it with every ounce of commitment and drive and selflessness and professionalism that any human could ever muster and we would talk and laugh and we would discuss what we could do better we would come up with a plan and in the end Tony would give me a head nod and that head nod meant he had it it was done he owned it and I never doubted that ever he never missed an operation and applied himself to each Mission with solemn gravity as the senior enlisted leader he poured over maps and imagery he held detailed warning orders he briefed the platoon with Clarity and directness he led rehearsals he did everything he could do to be ready in his platoon performed magnificant accounting for hundreds of enemy killed when his own men were wounded or killed in action it only fueled his motivation to kill more of the enemy to fight harder to slaughter more of the evil soulless enemy and rid the world of their wretched kind that is what every seal should aspire to be like in Tony's words BTF a big tough frog man with no fear no hesitation and no mercy just B BTF through everything like Tony did for Senior Chief of fratty's Courage determination and Leadership I will be eternally grateful I owe him more than I can ever repay him for what he did for me for the task unit for the teams and for our great nation let there be no doubt the man before you is a hero the teams are a worst place without his presence his guidance his leadership his example those that served with him must strive to carry the torch and pass it on so that his Spirit Burns bright in the teams forever I recently watched a movie about lemy Kil Meister the lead the leader of the Original Classic heavy metal thrash band motohead the movie Chronicles the life of lemi the hard living rock and roll legend the movie paints a picture of a unique individual that will never that can never exist again the movie is called lemi 49% [ __ ] 51% son of a [ __ ] and that seems to suit lemi pretty well and I'm not exactly sure how those numbers would break out for Tony but I do know this Tony a fratty is 100% frog man always was and always will be Tony thanks for everything I'll see you on the other side BTF Joo and with that Tony thanks for coming on the show thanks a lot brother kind of forgot about that there and that was that was good and the guy we're talking about Reddit pretty good too and you know I didn't have like a big ceremony or nothing just went out to Nyland and we got all gummed up and that was about it but uh I do I appreciate it man yeah it's good to see you brother it's good seeing you too and you know actually uh when I told people that you were coming on the show you know people actually know who you are from the Live to Tell oh yeah and uh Le Le's been on here we talked about you you know told some stories and [ __ ] and so uh but a bunch of people had a bunch of questions and you know I figured we'd try and get through some of them we we we won't be able to answer all the ones that I got but I picked out some of them and uh let you take a look and pick out some of them so well I mean first and foremost people just want to know kind of who the hell are you and where'd you come from yeah it's funny uh few years back like uh we're all in Arizona I took a bunch of the guys in a platoon over to my parents house you we had supper and everything it was wicked fun Jeremy pulls me aside he's like you actually have parents I thought you were born under a rock somewhere in the desert I'm like shut up you know that pretty funny I'm I'm from New Hampshire and uh I it's just probably like you just yeah it's not so much wanted to be a seal I just wanted to be something different you know I could have went like a biker gang or something just as easy you know but you know I figured this I have a pretty good chance of staying out of the clink you know this way but you know not always but a few times you know here and there but it teams just suited me cuz everybody is the same everybody you know everywhere you look guys are doing what you would do and they act how you would act and it's not always great but you know so you you you got recruited though by some of the boys like over in the pi didn't you yeah yeah I mean I I wanted to be a cuu but I wasn't like th% you know and I was in the Philippines and I was like all right I got to do that that's it so I went and got a screening test over there in Subic Bay and you know I smoked it and I then you know they didn't have this long pipeline back then I I got there on a Friday we got all gooned up and shaved our heads on Sunday and we started Monday there was not that was it okay go yeah actually I I know uh I was talking to the old master chief that actually was the guy that recruited you and told you you need to be a team guy me to I was talking to him the other day when you were down at his house on the phone yeah but uh yeah and he was one of my platoon Chiefs as you know but I told him I told him the best thing he ever did for the teams was get you to Joy the teams that's what he was laughing he probably probably well definitely the best thing for you you know saved your ass from all kinds of trouble oh yeah absolutely but it's just you know it's the teams like between us we got probably 46 years of Team guy life and and uh it's so hard to put in perspective if you don't know you're talk you know you've never been there yeah you know like people don't know that we don't call each other seals yeah you never say that you never nobody says when I join Navy Seals it's like when I became a team guy yeah if you say that everyone just like turn their head go you [ __ ] it's really weird when you hear a team guy refer to being a Navy SEAL it actually makes you think well wait wait a second who this guy must not have actually been in the team okay what class are you immediate interrogation like with with your Handcock behind your back like I'm just going to just going to hit him so hard give his driver's license a black eyye you know yeah I don't know where that I don't know where that comes from like where we don't say it I I guess maybe it's I know when I got the team one it was like oh you don't talk about it yeah you don't say it no yeah no no stickers no t-shirts no no you don't do any of that I'm sure all the punishable punishable by death yeah yeah you don't you don't say anything well we all thought we were going to to Vietnam the next day you know you know he's say oh my God and after a while you're like all right what's happening here yeah what's going on good all right man well so that's Tony grew up in New England like me and you know did you ever hear this that they spent a bunch of money trying to figure out who's training and the only literally the only two games they got was uh guys that wrestled and guys from New England and it wasn't like a big difference but you know uh a normal person has a 26% chance of making it through and someone from New England had like a 37 or something like a small uptick I think I mean you know what I I think also that there's good people out on the country don't get me wrong but New England has a pretty strong work ethic you know what I mean true yeah and I've seen that a lot a lot and not that other people don't yeah but all the guys most of the guys I knew from New England and the teams that a pretty good work ethic yeah yeah yeah I think it's just cold too just so cold that doesn't help though that doesn't matter I think it does cuz I I thought guys from Florida in my class like there was these kids from Florida there was a couple kids from Florida and they were you know all loud and like they were just big tough guys like they were already in the teams basically in their own minds and they all quit I like well I like the first day of buds I'm looking around some of these guys and I'm like wow holy crap these guys are like insane shape and all this stuff I'm still a little hung over from the plane ride from the pi you know like and I you know I made it and he was like they didn't yeah it's we it's weird you know they just had this kid uh that quit Buds and then he went and jumped off of a hotel down in San Diego killed himself and I looked at a picture of the guy he miss the pool or something no there was no pool to jump in he killed himself and uh he did it right I guess yeah he succeeded but I was looking at I was talking to uh one of the guy a guy that we know who's an instructor over there and I was looking at a picture of the dude and the dude was like dist strapping guy all buff with like blonde hair and just look like a total stud and I go man that guy looked like a stud what happened and then the instructor guy said dude they all look like that now like everybody's just you know it's a big deal hey I'm going to go on the SEAL Teams I'm going to go on the SEAL Teams and that's what they're saying so the recruiting is really easy but they're recruiting all these studs but it doesn't matter the utrition rate stays the same yeah that's why you know you know that the government wants more and more Team guys it just ain't going to happen no it's not not unless you lower the standards and if that happens then we've all not done our job that's just terrible awesome all right get some of these questions here um it says here on the first podcast with Le you discussed a story in which Tony came up with a strategy for an op and and Tony told Leif would be better the brief would be better coming from Leif and it says where did you develop this hum and this characteristic of not worrying about individual credit versus Team objectives so that to rehash that story real quick it was real we were out at we were out at the desert training facility and we were just planning you planning some like you know when we do iteration training we just got go do another one okay go do it was just one of those and they changed the Target or something and you're like okay here's what we need to do put guys over here put an OverWatch over here and walk through online like this and Lace like hey sounds good to go why don't you get the guys over and brief them and you said Hey sir you know what you go ahead and brief them that way it sounds better coming from you and that'd be the way to do it and he was like well all right you know he was he was fired up and I when I saw you do that I was like cuz cuz this is the thing and I forgot to mention this you and I have known each other for a long time we're both a team together and and we had the same friends and we hung out at the same places yikes yikes but we were never in a platoon together no we were never in a platoon together and never worked together like directly together until we were in tasking a Bruiser so when I got to nyand I knew your reputation which was which was Rock Solid but I don't trust anybody about anybody so I like yeah not yeah so so I just you know so I'm seeing you kind of for the first time out there of actually working and you know that was a big indicator to me I was like damn you know this guy is totally humble wants to make his officer look good wants to make his which is only going to make the platoon better it's only going to make everybody better so so yeah that was awesome and what a great attitude to have and I get asked that all the time people you know my boss is is doing this and what should I do I'm like oh give them support try and help them yeah try and make them look good but the thing that's chewing away at people is their ego of them wanting the credit right and you see this we see this all the time in SE teams so anyways where did you realize that did anybody teach you that or where the hell did how the hell did you know to do that I I can read and watch people pretty good and I watch some guys who kind of brought me up in the teams some of the guys we were talking about earlier and I tried to kind of mimic them but then it kind of morphs into your own [ __ ] you know yep and uh well the first thing is I was just tired my voice was gone I just wanted him to do it no I'm just kidding but so tired so tired but uh yeah like get over there boss and do your job but I mean some of them guys in that that platoon they were already my Chums like Chris Kyle and Bob and Jeremy them guys have been around a while and they already you know I put them through training in land Warfare at island so they they they' know me yep you know and up to that point it's been I was doing a lot of that [ __ ] and I'm like no boss you do it cuz basically he's new yeah to them not new in the teams but he was new and I figured he's got to do this more and more and more yeah you know and and he did of course you know W stepped up like a like a you know Gang Busters was great officer but in then then beginning stages like all right I've already done this a million times I don't I don't care I'm good you know you want my advice great but come on let's just get the ball rolling do it and so that answers the question yeah no that that was uh and again that was always the attitude you had which was he never cared about looking good yourself and part of that is you just had such a good reputation in the teams that what are you going to do look even better yeah yeah get another Navy C or something but but you know a lot of people so if you're listening and you're wondering you know what makes what makes somebody a good like a good NCO I know there's a lot of Marines a lot of soldiers listen to this what makes a good NCO you don't always have to make yourself shine you don't always have to be the guy that's the center of attention and as a matter of fact generally that shines through as being a guy that wants to be the center of attention instead of a guy that wants to have a good platoon and it's not like I was doing it to make rank which I I didn't expect to make E5 never mind Senior Chief God H all right next question please detail the way you were able to use decentralized command when running task unit Bruiser and how it was met through the other command commanders so for those of you that don't know decentralized command means you're going to let your subordinate leadership lead and you're not going to micromanage everybody and that's definitely what I did and I didn't micromanage well I should I should rephrase that if people need to be micromanaged I'll micromanage them if they're jacked up I'm going to be all in them and like you're talking about with Leif and with Seth or with uh the other plon the Delta platoon Commander hi microman guys like crazy when we first got in yeah cuz I was just making sure they were good to go just cuz they weren't that experience and just like guys that don't trust anybody when you don't know them yeah and then uh but the goal was to just have them be able to run on their own and make stuff happen cuz I'll tell you another thing you can't you can't run everything yourself nobody can no and so you got a decentralized command and that's what I did was I let you know when we got on deployment I wasn't micromanaging anything I was barely I was just kind of broad guidance you know right of cost and then and then you guys were running the stuff and making things happen I mean I would have loved to be on every operation but I physically couldn't because we had multiple Ops going on we had to split forces so what are you going to do I got no problems with anyone in that group the lowest guy running an OP yep but you got you got to let you you got to let the boys B Ally screw up mhm cuz then you don't know how they're going to react okay do they just sit there and pout then you got to slap them whatever or do they okay here's what you did wrong Roger that and then immediately start thinking how to fix it because everybody [ __ ] up everything let's face it I mean we're never always good at anything still ain't really good at much just BTF through it all and so it doesn't seem like we made mistakes I mean really yeah yeah but but leadership is funny because some guys take to it like water and other guys are scared to death of it yeah you know lately I've been realizing that cuz people always say you know are leaders made or born and can you make a person that's not a good leader into a good leader and I look at it kind of like um when you see these video games where people have different strengths and weaknesses and and a guy might be uh strong and high intellect and good agility and I don't know whatever those games Fair posture yeah so with leadership it's the same thing cuz there's certain elements certain natural things that you can have that make you a good leader for instance this is a real simple one can you be loud and in in the SEAL Teams if you can't be loud that's going to that's going to be a problem like if you can't just take control of a room be like you know hey everyone get in this room you know you can't do that people can't hear you then you got to find a way around that right are you articulate can you simplify things that are comp there's all these these little things that you get ranked you're basically all ranked at and some guys have they were born with low rankings and they either find a way to make up for him they learn how to do them better or they compensate by using somebody else you know if like I wasn't allowed I'd be like hey Tony tell everyone to get in here then you could do it right uh that makes total sense though yeah if if if someone out there is a leader been in a leadership position you know exactly what you're talking about yep Y and then sometimes it's you know hey what's the problem no really what's the problem well okay like you said good good all right now you identified it go work it out don't sit around and cry about it just go do it you know and then you got five minutes yeah yeah go take care of it I think the other thing with decentralized command that's that's important is for everybody to know what the limits are like how far you can go in One Direction or another and I know that you know like I always trusted you guys were going to do the right thing well like you said early on in that workup you know leadership at every level you know even the junior guy it's his responsibility to keep me in check if something's going wrong because if I'm doing something stupid he's like hey Tony what what oh yeah okay I lost it there for a while CU you know sometime I'm old sometimes I lose it once in a while you know I'm not going to apologize yeah nice anything else on decentralized command well it's it's a lot easier if you start right from the beginning trying to make everybody understand decentralized command because that's the goal it has to be the goal because someone like you you you you can't you got to be somewhere else you know we we didn't want you on the battlefield with us I wanted you on the battlefield with me every time you were I was like oh this is awesome but I mean I really really needed you back where you were of course you know and that it everybody had a like wicked high level of confidence just knowing that you were back there taking care of watching her back you know and never sleeping and just doing like 40 pull-ups and sweating and trying to eat everything in the [Laughter] camp yeah yeah it's uh it the thing that you talk about as far as getting everyone to know that and understand that from the beginning is is for sure oh yeah I mean everybody's got to know that man you know I I I don't want like my favorite thing is I go out on an operation with you guys and not do anything you sit around okay I'm just in the train you know that's that's the way it should be because the leaders are leading because Leif is doing his job he's leading the assault he's leading things the the breach team is doing their stuff and I'm just like okay cool I'm basically an observer you know now to a point yeah you're like all right that always didn't have that little issue but uh but that's the way you want it you know and and then when something does happen you can then handle it you can step in and go okay hey guys we need to back off over here hey this is this is going wrong and and that's the way it should be so if that's your goal though is to say look I want my leaders to lead I don't want to be doing all their job for them when first of all that'll make them more confident and make them more capable and then when something does happen then and they need your assistance you're not bog down with something else you can step in and make it happen right I think it's uh take like Iraq or Afghanistan that's why the combat vets coming back and they talk about decentralized command it's important because if you're just doing the same like army training and an army unit goes over there what are they going to do go all right guys now we're doing decentralized command later you know you you know until that happens you know you got to now they come back hey we need to train like this y here's what our Junior officers need to do here's our n O's need to do here's our e5s our e4s you know our privates here's what they need to do yep good all right next up uh T talk about some failures in planning leadership and how you built back up yeah we didn't we had none of that everything went perfect you know one of the things that I think of when and I guess isn't really a failure but we would often times make a decision and then in a day or in a week decide yeah that wasn't a good call you know do something else and I think a good example of that is how we kind of task organized and we split up into different groups and be like okay you guys are running this area you guys are running this area and then like two weeks later actually no this area is not good we're going to move you guys join them back together I I always felt like everybody especially Us in the leadership you know we were all like okay cool yeah we just made a mistake we just move on not not even a mistake but you got to change you got to adapt yeah you got to you got to morph into something it's like if you're doing unilateral opts then it's kind of a no-brainer if you go over there and all of a sudden you know all you you're working by yourself boom boom doing your missions great but if you're working split forces and you're training indigenous forces and you doing that you have to have de you know you have to and it's not always easy to adjust for because there like there's a world of difference between Iraq and Afghanistan like a world of difference I mean it's all kind of the same but stuff I did in Iraq I didn't do in Afghanistan you know and vice versa like whoa we can't do that you know and even even stuff like the weather you know talking all of a sudden it's snowing you know and then the terrain like people think Iraq's All Desert I mean there were some places they were like in the jungle it's like we in N you know or Cambodia Christ's sakes and like well we would you know okay we're GNA walk how many clicks yeah well when you're up to your waste in mud you know all of a sudden that time frame is totally off cuz we didn't you know made a mistake I didn't really really read the terrain y you know and ask about it and see who's been up there before and [ __ ] but yeah so but we just adapt and overcome exactly I think that's the biggest thing learn from your mistakes yeah when it comes to failure it's just okay what do we do now yeah yeah good okay let's let's adapt and move on yeah all right um next one I really want to hear you talk about the battlefield and how it made you feel and the type of situations when the [ __ ] hits the fan well that kind of questions pretty easy for me like how the battlefield made me feel all I can say is it made me feel much better than any other place than the battlefield you know what I mean yeah CU everything makes sense on the battlefield very we're either going forward or we're getting going away or defending our position or we're moving out yeah out of that what else is there because all them things even if you have men down and people wounded you still got to do them yeah yeah well as I sit here and think about this so our opt was very high meaning the operational Tempo though for those of you that don't know what that means it means like how often you're doing work and the op Tempo was very high and so but sometimes for whatever reason let's say an operation would get cancelled or pushed back and all of a sudden Tony would have been in Camp for like two days well the second day like the first day he'd be you know okay he's coming up with a plan he's looking for something else you know him and leer trying to figure something out to do but then the SEC by the second day he's just just starting to get all frustrated and pace around doing well well hey this is just stupid yeah oh it's next we're going to go to like the big base and like country music concert or something I'm serious like when I was afasy and I flew into uh kaha yeah and these guys like oh you just missed I can't remember what country they go to concerts and stuff I'm eating rat [ __ ] and stuff up in the mountains you know I'm like really what are all these people doing here why aren you up murdering the bad guys God yeah so Tony you would get very frustrated after like two days and then you'd just come in and i' okay dude here just go to this area and go find something to do and then you'd go make a plan and you and Le would come back all right we got something we got to go get it but you got you got to admit though uh you know time off is not such a good thing I mean couple days break yeah now and then but you got to keep the boys busy then they start thinking and and they start getting you know but I mostly did it for me cuz I just wanted to get after it yeah there's definitely you can smoke them but uh you're right if all of a sudden they're sitting around all the time they you know what's that uh a body in motion tends to stay at motion and a body at rest sends to stay at rest so if you start lagging and all of a sudden you're going to go do an op and everyone's kind there's resistance there's not not not verbal resistance just just like a shrug the shoulders like just like a resistance a some unseen resistance in the world that want you to slow down but when the [ __ ] hits the fan you know it's it's strange cuz it makes me like a little calmer I think I mean not always I had the first first time I ever got shot I was a little jittery a little bit but you know oh my God what's going on actually but I knew what it was you know it's not like oh what's that actually I I actually remember you were uh briefing some of the guys when we when when we were back and you you were like um you were like hey you know what we didn't work on training when when I when we went through training and we were getting ready to go to ratti we didn't work on on on this right here oh my God what's happening yeah there's this too oh wow this is going to be cool yeah till all that bad stuff starts then they're screaming yelling diving in [ __ ] and shooting and killing and but you know it's kind of it is fun oh yeah uh yeah I think the thing I've said on here before is that the battlefield and all these situations they just give you this clear focus in life that nothing else gives you well nothing that I've found gives you this like oh we're going to kill people are going to get killed ourselves that's everything in the world right nothing else matters no that's it just like sitting in Camp watching TV that doesn't matter no okay you got your rest okay you good you know all right you know let's go all right next one not to take away from the seriousness of what you two have achieved in the seals but I would like Tony to tell a funny story about Joo and the reason I put this one in here uh of course I don't like to hear any humor or any laughter in the world but there was a bunch of people that that said this so uh anyways I figured you might have a story here I got like like seriously like a million like a million I mean that story about you and your roommate like you're uh you're like you guys live together in Coronado yeah you know what I'm talking about the big fellow yeah you're like I was over there Patty and one night we're getting gooned up and you're like you know what our our bill was from dominoes was like $2500 last month yeah in a month I thought that was so funny had some wicked good parties though yeah yeah we did have some pretty good parties and then one time we're out at Nyland it's it's like 2:00 in the morning and the guys are you know they're uh what do you tell what do you call that after you're done do the work on the vehicles uh post you know post St the vehicles and they're all busy doing stuff and I mean I'd help out if I had to but I mean that's not my job so and they boys know what to do Jeremy hadam great lpo and uh we're sitting there me you and la and maybe one of the other Jos were shooting the [ __ ] about something I mean it had to do with work cuz what else is there and Leif was talking it was quiet kind of and you you got your arm on one of the hum and all of a sudden you just out of nowhere you just kick the dirt and you go God damn it you're like shaking your head and clenching your fist I'm like the [ __ ] you talking about and he just like looked at me and smiled and walked away like what what what is wrong with you still haven't figured out what was wrong with you that I I I know what I I remember that you just went God damn it yeah no I was actually getting frustrated that there was a chance we might not go to Iraq and like I was so uh scared and horrified of of that it just you know and I just was trying to control it but then it just kind of slipped out yeah here's another quick one about Jacko I'm like I don't know we were there couple weeks in ratti and we're just falling into a Groove operating and one night I I was in his office cuz like couldn't sleep or whatever and uh he's like look at this and you show me he shows me the computer he goes this is from my wife are you okay you've been gone three weeks and we haven't heard anything from you I'm like Chum you better you better email your wife or she's gonna fly over and kill you yeah yeah I uh yeah I talk about Detachment a lot and uh sometimes you know like I said sometimes you get over there and you get got all that [ __ ] going on and uh nothing else in the world matters but I didn't have anything going on back here it didn't matter to me at all sorry uh uh to my wife there uh for not she I'm sure she REM with you in any way you did though you're okay I gotta yeah uh all right here's one what made you realize one of your guys was really good to go or was not up to standard not necessarily big things but Micro actions or decisions that set something off in your mind well I had a lot of guys work under me over the years and and I mean I really think that you know all my brothers and the teams every one of them is good to go even the guys I didn't get along with I'd still give my life for him in a second doesn't matter but uh one thing that sticks out to me was Biggles but knows Ryan job is you know I I don't I guess I could have been more like nice or whatever but I'm like man you look like you're [ __ ] fat you better get in [ __ ] shape bro I'm I'm gonna [ __ ] kill you I'm not going to like R you up I don't even know how to do that I'm gonna I'm going to just physically kill you and man you know I didn't even know if he was in good shape or not cuz some people you can't tell yeah they're like look at that guy and then he just knocked [ __ ] out yeah people that iron marshmallow yeah and man that kid did I mean he really really did and like all of a sudden I'm like Chum well I didn't say that I was like h i you know was like yeah that was like my praise like yeah whatever you're good praise from okay on the next one on to the next thing yeah you know but I mean that was really good and you know I remember one of my guys uh lost a piece of equipment one time and you know I was kind of upset with him but it just made me realize that you know if we're making a mistake maybe it's not this guy's fault maybe it's my fault maybe it's everyone's fault as a as a team because at the end of the day it's all of us so maybe we want to take a day or two off you know and that kind of helped and you know we handled it but I mean and another one of my guys he uh it was Christmas and he left left a piece of equipment open or he didn't lock something I mean it wasn't a big deal I could have corrected it right there but the guys had just taken off on Christmas leave and I was had nowhere to go so I was drinking beers in the team area so I just walked around checking [ __ ] out and sure enough so I called a guy and he was like 3 or 400 miles into his drive to a western state for Christmas I'm like he goes oh I'm sorry I'm like yeah no problem man all right so turn around now and I'll be waiting for you it is dead silence on the phone he's like what yeah yeah so he drove all the way back and I was standing there it's like 4 in the morning now and I was like I was pretty liquored up by then and just fuming but he's like hey I'm sorry you learn a lesson yep okay have a good leave and I'm sure I'm positive he never did that again that'll do it you know yeah it was kind of a dink move I guess but you know I figured it was a thing to do he who suffers remembers yeah yeah it's uh it's the the the the seag teams when you're when you're just working with guys all the time you definitely start to pick up things you can indicate okay yeah this guy's this guy's stepping up you know that's what I always noticed when when things are going sideways like in a training operation and you see a guy that's starting to step up you know that was always a good sign to me absolutely absolutely like he's going to he's going to handle something it's like that's when you train decentralized command that's where you got to let guys make mistakes and screw things up cuz you know the less you you know the more you sweating training unless you bleed and War no doubt about that one all right um next one Tony were there situations while in Iraq when you disagreed with a leadership decision made by Leif or Joo if so how did you express your disapproval and were you successful in getting your point cross um most of the time 99% of the time no I did not uh there was one big one that I really disagree with you guys on when my uh my request to keep the entire troop there for another year you said you couldn't and I was why not and you're like we can't and I'm like why well and I was really really really angry about that but yeah I think I think this this question here is is is from someone that's thinking that doesn't really understand how we're working you know and the bottom line is I'm not coming down and going all right men this is what I want you to do now no we would just form our own operations it's just all we're forming our own operations we're all kind of bouncing ideas off each other the best idea Rises to the top I don't care who it came from I don't care if it came from me Tony from one of the new guys it doesn't matter to me where the idea comes from or where the plan comes from I want the best idea to rise the top and that's one of the best things about our troop was there was no one that was like trying to drive their own personal plan I didn't care I literally didn't care and I think part of it is like you and me just had planned so many operations and it just you know we just didn't care it's like oh that's cool you you that sounds like a good plan you know maybe make this adjustment maybe make that adjustment other than that cool let's execute it so I think that's a little bit different than um than what people would Vision as like I was the commander and or or because we're just not operating like that now this is why I've said to people very flat even though there's even though the the military and the SEAL Teams there's definitely a hierarchal structure I mean that's the way it's organized there's a the troops and then there's you know leading Patty officers then there's a platoon Chief then there's a platoon Commander then there's a a a troop Commander task unit Commander then there's a a a team Comm so there's a structure there cuss there is but the the as far as how we actually come to plan and stuff like that there's yeah I mean some guidance but we're working as a team to do that and that's what and I would say it's not always like that in fact I know it's not always like that because I saw all their platoon and other troops act and do different ways but I mean we did operations that came from our commanding officer Sil team 3 came all the way down yep and some of them were wicked good hops except they'd give the maybe the mission objective but they wouldn't be telling us like go in here we would never that's not the way it works so I think that uh I mean the situations when you disagreed with me was probably in one hand you could say never in in the other hand you could say a million times that you were like no man we shouldn't do that and I'd be like well why not oh we should put the vehicles in the oh okay yeah that's a good point yeah so that's that's how we voiced it by saying oh yeah let's do this I say oh okay cool yeah that's good sounds good all right good no big uh big big uh what's that like a big soap op for leadership Struggle No not happen not happening that never happened and uh so if you don't have that kind of relationship with people number one is it your own ego that's getting involved because that's probably that's that's a good indicator if you're like well you know the my subordinates just don't understand oh really really why not okay why not suck as a leader then just do it like good yeah you know maybe maybe if you did better they wouldn't understand the mission more so pretty flat organization we had at least from a planning perspective yes sir all right if you had to pick one driving characteristic that separates a dominant Alpha Team guy from everyone else what in the teams what is it well if guys in the teams you got to know this but a lot of people out there don't that like pretty much everyone's an alpha male you know you know it's like nobody gives up the argument ever you know and usually it's you know wrestling or fighting and just it always works itself out but I think uh one thing I we're talking about is gimmicks like a lot of people in the teams I call it a gimmick everybody's good at everything pretty much and does the job but some people are like just insane skydivers some guys are just phenomenal Rock climbers some guys are just like swimming Sons of Guns you know or Runners and wrestlers and fist Fighters and there you know some people just in the guns I mean that's their passion some people are just phenomenal divers you know and I was I was always pretty good at everything but not great you know I couldn't outrun everybody I couldn't out fight everybody I couldn't out swim everybody I couldn't out shoot everybody and I just I I think mine was like tactics and just being as hard as I could and it I I may have made it look easy but it wasn't especially as I got older it's no fun being a team guy when you're 44 you know and you get up and you're like all right yeah okay then I'm like I better retire I'm done with all this but yeah if that if that kind of makes sense yeah and the other funny thing about that is um because the teams no team guy ever wants to give any credit to a different team guy so if someone was like Hey you know that that guy's a really good shot and then someone immediately be like yeah you ever he doesn't know how to swim though yeah of course yeah we used to talk about always just like someone's always ready to just no one's good at everything wow did did did you work you know did you and if they can't figure something out they'll be like whatever [ __ ] that guy they'll just walk away hey where you going yeah yeah the uh you know one thing I'll say that is pretty cool and I I already brought this up like one of the things that that separate like what when I worked with you that first time and I saw you like being humble I was like man that's that to me is the characteristic that you can tell the guy is not just a good team guy but an awesome team guy when he's humble about what's going on and when I was putting guys through training and I know you saw this too the guys that would come through training that thought they were all badass and thought they couldn't do anything wrong they were always bad like they never did a good job right right and then the guys that were say hey man I'm you know I'm looking forward this training I know we we need to get tuned up and and uh let you know let me do know what I can do better those guys when they were taking notes they always kicked ass they always did a good job yeah so that being humble is uh well being humble too is I I read a bunch of after action reports you know and my tours over there about different situations different things and every time they were well written by some guys but it was you'll always carry this you will always do this never do this always do that and I kind of took that in account when I wrote an like a serious after action report for that deployment I wish it would have saved it too CU it's pretty good first and foremost this is what worked for us in these months this environment this temperature with this Mission set and what we had to do don't use this as oh he said that so I'm going to do it every time mhm no I mean use it as a guide everything the teams is a toolbox you pick it out when you need it and you use it and you put it back away and if it sits in there for 500 years it's still worth having because the time you pull it out you're going to really need it yep yep you know next one in the teams what were the biggest reputation Builders or killers and for those of you that don't know in the teams and I guess it's the same anywhere but it definitely is true in the teams man your reputation is uh is everything it's everything and people know who you are they know if you do something stupid like really stupid in the teams it's everybody knows second everyone knows it forever yeah yeah like uh if you have an accidental discharge with meaning meaning if you shoot your gun when you weren't supposed to and there may be some scenarios where there's a little bit of leeway on that that but if you just do it in a dumb situation everybody's going to know about it forever and it's just like you might as well just get a tattoo on your forearm that says hey I had an ad on this date on your if you do something stupid you know something that get get you in trouble like just dumb yeah you're you're probably going to just everyone's going to know about it they're always going to think about it if you get if you get fired from a position and you happen to not get kicked out of the teams everybody's going to everybody knows might as well just get out yep yeah it's it's it's a tough Community when it comes to reputation it's a really tough Community bral it's it's wicked brutal like yeah you know every it's like a small town everybody knows everything even though you're on other coasts yep I mean I've done a lot of stupid [ __ ] in my career and I was a jerk off and done dumb stuff and been an idiot and everybody knows all that yeah you know yeah you know most of the stuff that you did fortunately is kind of uh is like on the okay side I don't know how how to explain this but like oh oh yeah Tony got drunk and got in a fight at this thing you're like oh yeah it's almost you know made a big spectacle at the big to-do with uniforms and stuff wouldn't it have like to do with like the things that you kind of can't do or you can't get away with or it'll affect your reputation in a bad way wouldn't it have more to do with how good of a team guy you are you you're right you just just called it you know what it has to do with is it something that that helped or is it something that is operational or not so it's something that's operational everybody knows like if you I mean even like you'll hear about a guy that gets lost in buds in and you or like gets lost going through the initial training but when he got to the team he gets on land on land navigation and gets lost and has to get rescued bro that's just it's just going to stick with you forever like like I remember you know I remember getting like three briefs about some guy that I was getting in a platoon about where this guy got lost how stupid it was there was a highway he could have walked the highway you could hear the cars everyone just made a spectacle out of this kid and I mean the kid got out because eventually you go man I just can't this is horrible everybody just thinks I can't and so yeah so this question is actually is actually a decent question because that definitely does play a big thing so for me and it's the basis for a lot of nicknames in the teams true true know true yeah if you do something that's um excessively stupid or or or just have bad luck like one of my favorite ones is Bush you know Bush a cuss yeah but he he like was parachuting and when he first got to the teams is a new guy and and in his parachute he landed in uh in uh what kind of bush was it some kind of a bush with thorns and whatnot and his parachute got all tangled up and he got was stuck in there the guy's that's his name he's great too he's an awesome aesome guy yeah for sure bush the other funny thing is there's Team guys where you don't even know what their real name was actually I was kind of like that nobody knew what my actual name was mine was just Joo and that would just was my civilian nickname that my parents gave me but the funniest was there was a guy and I'll just tell the story there was a guy and you know him course I do but uh but anyways his name was Al and I was always yeah and I was like you know I knew him was Al and then he was a heavy weapons instructor so we called him Big Al and then we called him Big Al 50 cal it was big I knew Big Al 50 cal for like eight years right and one day I'm like uh you know we're talking and I we're doing some we're going on a trip or something I knew his name cuz I was in a couple platoon paperwork you know was like I finally get to paperwork I finally get to paperwork with and this guy was also a real quiet guy I mean real professional real quiet didn't say much and uh one day I'm doing the paperwork and I go hey man I'm like looking at the list of people that's going I go hey man I thought you were going on this trip with us and he's like he's like yeah yeah I'm going and I go oh you're not on the Manifest here and he goes no and he comes over he points at his name and his name is Keith yeah and I go I go I go bro I go your name is Keith I go you want me to that's a mistake you want me to get a chang he goes no no that's my name and I go I thought your name was Al I go is Al your middle name and he goes he goes no Al's not my name at all and I go I go what do you mean why does every single person call call you ow and he goes well he goes well in my first platoon yeah I was out doing something it was night and I was I guess I was looking around and moving my head a lot like an owl and so the guy started calling me owl and then over the next platoon that changed from ow that just mfed into and then Al and then his name was Al and I literally would have told you this guy's name was Al and and he never corrected it he just you know hey whatever you call me Al that's enough so I thought bfer or somebody named him that I I so that's Big Al 50 cal uh but you know what his reputation was because this a question about reputation his reputation was awesome because he was solid he was a for he was a former Marine wasn't he uh I was he no that was 295 oh okay 295 was in the core uh but but you know solid reputation so for me and I I guess I mean it's it's what you do operationally is what build your reputation and if you're a good shooter if you're not you know shoot shooting like an idiot um not P you know if you can Patrol well if you have good fieldcraft all those things the real things that's what's kind of cool that's what's kind of cool that's one thing that's in the teams that's that's hard for them to erase is what your real reputation as a real team guy as an operator team guy that's the thing that all these people that that kind of come and go in the teams and it's it's maybe it's not they're not real real Team guys you can't fake that you know and when guys get some guys get shot blown up you know wounded and some of them can't operate anymore it's not like we throw them to the Wolves if they want to stay in the teams we keep them and take care of them and some of them become phenomenal instructors and Y and just go on and do great things yeah I had the they were going to keep they if if Ryan Joel would have want to stay they were going to keep them a cuss yeah absolutely oh you're blind cool we got PL work for you y you can lead PT doesn't mean you can't listen to me when I say go do this yeah awesome and and then contrary to that obviously the killers are when you uh when you screw up stuff operationally the other thing is if you're an arrogant egotistical guy you be everyone's going to hate you that's yeah and you ain't going to last long because if you're the because there's some guys that are great skill-wise they're great operators but they're horrible to work with they're arrogant they don't listen to anybody they're not humble and those guys will have a bad reputation too they got blind is on they can't open the you know and you got to if you want to evolve at all stay alive you know y yep all right next one what makes a great NCO and for those of you not in the military an NCO is a non-commission officer the military is broken into two basic basic uh Pathways of advancement and of existence there's officers who are like the managers and the leaders and then there's the enlisted guys which are the grunts but then as they get promoted through the ranks you eventually become What's called the senior enlisted advisor and if you don't to kind if you think about Hollywood movies the way they always categorize these two is you've got the Young Junior officer fresh in Vietnam fresh out of the academy and then you got the salty old Gunnery Sergeant that's the two that's the two so the N the NCO is the is the enlisted side of that and uh NC they always say is like the backbone of the of the Marine Corp is the NCO the the Chiefs run the SEAL Teams is the is the statement right because the Chiefs the guys that Chiefs of the guys that'll be at a Seal Team especially in the old days be at a Seal Team for eight years so you are the continuity and you get raised so the question is what makes a great NCO and who is or was the best NCO you know well for me what makes a great NCO or chief is I don't think you can just do it I think it's uh I'm not saying I'm a great NCO but I did have great ncos who who taught me a lot and they brought me up and they put their foot in square in my rectum when I needed it and they also took their time to explain things to me when they could see in my eyes I was nodding my head yes but I was really I didn't grasp it and they're like I'm going to do it this way and they would work around my for lack of better word learning disabilities because I mean some of the stuff you can't you know when you're a new guy you're just like yeah yes chief chief and they're like no dummy relax here's how you do it and that leadership style went a long way with me and uh I never forgot it you know who's the best ncu you had or ever known and man there's so many guys that it it's not one and I can't say their names because you know it's not cleared I mean but that's a good thing about nicknames sometimes you know I think uh I'll have to say overall uh Mr fak was probably the best one I ever had and uh he was just an old school hot ass son of a [ __ ] but he was fair as all hell he was fair and you always knew where you stood with him and I love that that's what I try to do later on like I didn't want to go hide hide hide and then totally take another Direction and just be like easy on the GU so they like me you know I don't care and I thought that was much easier in a better way cuz Mission men is how he should look at things put the mission first and take care of man but sometimes if you have to sacrifice men and you got to like okay you got to die for this Mission all right Roger that you know because I mean that's the way the military is that's what you get paid for but yeah Mr faak was probably best one for me yeah so that's another when I talked about you and me coming up in the teams and hanging out with the same people and being the same but we were in a platoon together but we did have the same guys that raised us both the same guys raised us both and for sure Mr fak as you you are calling him uh was a huge influence on me I mean a huge influence on me everything I was or am well everything I was in the teams like as far as being professional and like Hey we're going to look that all was taken from fact all of it was taken from him 100% me too and the seriousness that he put towards the job job like the the the the gravity that he put towards the job and the gravity he put towards the operational stuff that we just talked about as far as you know the things that we said makes up your reputation that's what he cared about above anything else that's what he cared about and so for sure working for him and that's that's again that's why when we actually started working to and I'm just realizing this right now I mean I guess I made sense of it before but when we started working together that's why we had the same thought everything was like of course we're going to do that it's like when we're bounding back one time somewhere in Iraq and it just we didn't even have to say anything to each other we're just like cover and move cover and move go go go but one thing real quick about NCO one of the best I ever had another SE daddy of mine and I can say his name because rest in peace Tim frell Tim frell was a big big influence on my life I mean he was a wicked good operator I I can't I don't know anybody who a tougher guy in the teams yeah he's just a high hitting guy and just he's a really good dude man really good guy and he was awesome at everything everything everything yep he good he was an a awesome at everything he did he' beat you at everything yeah he would beat guys in the swims and he wasn't wearing fins and they were I mean he's just incredible athlete yeah an incredible athlete and by the way he was he would is not like a guy that was like well you know I didn't get my workout in today so no he didn't care about anything son of a gun he he was like oh just just get after everything yeah yeah yeah Tim frell for sure was a great guy what a frog man he was he certainly was all right anything about accuracy of fire in Combat versus volume of fire and I'll tell you the reason I left this one in here Tony is uh a lot of lot of soldiers and Marines and Team guys that I hear from all the time and they always are listening and not only that at this point and I hate to say it but in America our our police forces need to start thinking about this kind of stuff because there's bad stuff happen in America where guys are getting in legit yeah Urban Warfare and so talking about the accuracy of fire versus the volume of fire well you know it's a double it's a flip of the coin on depends on the situation but I can tell you the number of times I fired a rifle an assault rifle like an M4 M14 and all that you know a scar on Full Auto is Big frakin goose egg you know I I can't think a one situation if somebody said okay Tony you're going in this room alone and there's eight guys pointing guns at you well okay Roger that but you know but sometimes you know volume of fire get your heads down if you're in the street you got to get that fire you got to try to gain fire superiority and if you don't have that you ain't really moving and uh so at that point you know you're not doing all the things you were taught breathing you're just getting LED down in that direction to cover your your ass well your buddy's ass so you can move and they can move um but accuracy fire in combat you know in good situations if you're under Fire and you're putting lead down range so you can move it's real nice to have a supporting element and an elevated position they're the ones combining these two and just yeah is a pretty good example it's pretty nice knowing about four blocks from you you got Chris Kyle up there talking to you on the radio hold on you see a guy fall out of like the window with a gun you're like thanks brother you know you're pretty confident walking down the street at that point so yeah yeah the uh the other thing is I mean we always have massive you know Firepower with Mark 48s and Mark 46s to lay down the heavy volumes of fire and that's the same thing uh Roger Hayden was saying in here the other day who's another you know person that mentored You and Me growing up in the teams and uh but he said that they had 460s in their 14 man platoon like two Stoners three St no four 60s and five Stoners that's that's he said that was what they carried and uh wow yeah so so ain't you know what's interesting too the point like we talk about Point shooting but the guys like all of our guys are aw Gunners put SES put the aogs on their on their oh yeah which was yeah partially for p so they could tell who they're shooting at right could see further but also man accuracy yeah it's a four Power Scope yep you know and then at night it don't matter cuz you're using an app peel or a laser and you're on nods anyway so so and the one last thing is that you you know again now you're talking to uh aimed at police officers but also also guys in combat you don't have unlimited ammunition no so you got to think about that too me me and my brother just had this conversation and uh you know he's like well wish like you know conceal weapon care you know he's got say I Got My Revolver and he's got like a uh 686 stainless P or plus you know seven shot 357 I wonder where he he wanted a revolver I told him what to get yeah that's a that's a good he loves it but he's like you know should I when I'm concealed carry should I carry some speed loaders I'm like well Chum is that always convenient no well you know what you're not getting in a gunfight you're not if you get in somebody shooting you either shoot them or you put down fire and you run it's not your fight if someone's jacking your car or whatever and they pull a gun you shoot them yes but if you know it's a nightclub shooting or something you you're blasting your way out of there and that's it you're not going to sit there you don't have unlimited ammo right and even the teams we didn't that was my biggest fear I would hate to die of lack of shooting back I mean that would just suck you know and we never really did run out we got low mhm we got low a few times stimes but never really run out it's scary that's why we kind of train on uh you know we did a lot of that where try to set a standard you can't you know if you got to shoot you shoot if you run out then you go to your pistol if you run out of that you go to your grenades or whatever and then you just BTF but uh but we trained you know if you're in sustained firefights like M4 Gunners you know after four mags you would start slowing it down start thinking about round commer conservation same thing with the the machine Gunners start slowing your rates of fire down initial bursts initial voles and then go down to like you know shorter bursts more time looking at what you're seeing cuz if you're out there hanging with your ass hanging you know and you got no rounds then guess what it's run time and nobody wants to run that's just that's just terrible awesome all right uh next one to what is Tony's perspective as an enlisted and older guy serving quotes under you as a younger officer so I I don't know if this person actually understands that we're about the same age and had been in the teams about the same amount of time and um we were more Brothers than like anything else and then uh what was it like what were you like to work for compared to other guys you were under well that first pot that first part there it's pretty easy cuz I remember you and Leif were talking like we didn't know who this chule guy was I I kind of was walking by the office it's like a movie where I stopped like halfway through a step and I backed up and I went what' you guys say yeah this new uh task unit Commander we don't know who he is what's his name like willink Joo jao jao or something like that I'm like yeah we're all set and then they're all like you know cuz they're the two lieutenants you know Seth and life and they're like following me into the head I'm like relax what about what about this guy about this like we're good to go I mean we sure we're getting him they're like oh yeah it's done he's he's coming he'll be like tomorrow I'm like yep yep all right let me just tell you something be squared away tomorrow and I start walking you know this guy and I was like you know is he is he good to go and I just looked at went I gave him that look like please I know what I'm talking about be be squared away tomorrow yeah and you better be on your game me I'm going to be hung over tomorrow so whatever I known him forever but that and uh what were you like to work for what what you were like uh this not even a question he was great he was the best ever I mean just I don't know we think we think the same we we're we're like-minded and uh we like we like to work we really really loved our jobs and our and our people you know and I hate saying I loved my men that sounds kind of you know whatever but I you know I did I really cared about the guys and that was the best part of being a team guy and I'm sure jock will back me up on that absolutely as your brothers yeah there a no doubt about that no doubt about that at all um all right next one please expound on the early days when you and Tony were new guys in the teams this is like a whole another podcast uh okay go ahead well uh I don't know it was kind of a different time when we were new guys like like my first platoon we were involved you know like the first Gulf War and I thought it was W that was great you know and we really didn't do much my platoon didn't and you know some of them guys over there for six months and the war started and it was like a month or whatever and then it was done like yeah but other than that we we I think in the later stages in my career we didn't train as hard but the deployment I mean we still trained hard but the deployments were harder like more work and back then if you did a deployment where it was like a training deployment cuz there was no war war going on we still have to deploy people don't realize if there's no Wars Team guys are still deploying the same optempo Y and because we need constantly be around the world in case something happens and uh but we did a lot of like hard core [ __ ] like we did a lot more reconnaissance work which meant we didn't have vehicles so we had lpcs which are leather personnel carriers meaning boots and we'd hump in like 25 clicks or whatever and we do these ridiculous swims and and these long Dives and do all I mean really like long like the hter the better I mean you look at a team to to put it in perspective you look at a team guy back then a lot of them were a lot leaner you know and they we did a lot more running swimming you look at a like a team area now you go to the gym and it looks like ww MMA wrestlers you know I mean they do everybody's like like stronger and not cuz you got to carry more [ __ ] we do do a lot more direct action stuff but also we did a lot of drinking and partying well in San Diego we did I know that yeah and uh we hung a lot together nobody was married you know I don't we had like 16 guys in my platoon and one was married and he was the lpo yeah like no one was married no we all hung out together all the time and we all like lived in Imperial Beach for like Chula Vista now people live like 40 miles away and like everyone's married and owns a house nobody owned a house we have any money Cruise boxes yeah we yeah we had a house like Five Guys in an apartment with like one one couch and it was just a disaster you know the the the guy that you were talking about earlier that I lived in Coronado with and uh for quite some time we had we in our house we had we only had one fork so it'd be like it'd be like hey man are you almost done with the fork cuz I want to I want to eat my dinner now couldn't go to V and buy another Fork because totally see that happen you two gorillas yeah that was uh that was funny so when I what I remember one of the big things I remember about checking into a team one was was just not even looking people in the eyes cuz it was this this reputation and and of just you're just G to get beat down yeah we got hazed a lot to oh yeah we got beat up we got hazed and uh a lot you didn't you know you didn't come in there thinking that the world owed you anything at all yeah no the only thing they owed you was an ass beating and you know uh we had some big monster guys at the team I remember I checked in and there was this one guy who you know a probably the biggest guy at team one I'm not gonna say his name again just because I I don't want to Jay Yeahs with a Jay um I'm I'm checking it you know I'm at the team and I'm doing over there doing some push-ups or something and I see this guy come out of the gym he's literally how tall is he 66 yeah how about that 66 300 lb monster he's completely covered in tattoos and he's walking it's about a 40 meter walk from the back of the team one building to the to the area where we keep the outboard motors and stuff and he's walking he's lumbering right he's lumbering along and about 20 MERS into this hike he stops and he's got a gallon of milk in his hand and he just he stops like stops and uncorks the milk and just sits there and drinks half a gallon of milk slowly puts it back down puts the lid back on and then Lumbers the rest of the way over I'm like good Lord I hope that guy doesn't eat me like kill me and eat me and so that was that was definitely the team one uh thing when I got to team one I everyone was just big bunch of tough mean bastards and they were getting ready to kick your ass at any time daily yeah and and and I you know I think you know nowadays there's a war going on you know right and so the guys have a different kind of test ahead of them and that's cool you know that's different kind of test and it's a harder test and it's it is that's that's what we that's what guys join the teams for so the young Team guys that are coming in freaking badass awesome absolutely and I I tell you what man people say whatever about what they want to say about the way Millennials are and all this stuff man I've been to some hanging out with some Team guys especially after some memorials and stuff these young frog men they're badass badass guys that are ready to die or kill without question and uh so respect and I'm so glad to see where the the teams maintains that always absolutely all right if Tony had to write for the history books three top stories of chiny example of BTF getting after it what would they be just give me one give me one oh my God everything everything is there so many good examples there's so many good ones um it's hard to say just one guy you know but uh I don't know I'm one time when me and uh Dober did that like thousand yard Center peel that was pretty hard to contain that it didn't bother me that was hard man I mean that was that was pretty hard like I mean this is a tactic with two guys there two of us bringing up the rear this this extraction you know actually yeah it wasn't extraction CU it was by foot otherwise it would have been an exfiltration but we kind of took up the rear we started like covering moving and them guys were just on a dead run but we had to stop go stop go for about like a mile or whatever it was just terrible I mean I was sweating like a Teamster man I mean I was just and course it was like 8:00 in the morning and it's like 110 degrees out that was that was pretty good that was a pretty good one but I remember get back to the old days with that I we didn't save ETF back then but we used to do some horrendous humps you know humping to the civilian World means like marching not marching but patrolling and be like you look at the map and we don't we we didn't Patrol in the day so it' be like all right it gets dock at like 19 hyy going to move out about 1930 and it gets then we're going to stop at about 05 Y and we got to cover I don't know 40 clicks yeah all right let's go your 100 pound ruck sack you're like really okay let's go and you think I couldn't have been a plumber or something oh no I to be a team guy I couldn't have been like went to college no no no yeah you know and you were you were kind of talking about this earlier but uh I remember times where you guys be out in the field for two or three days and meanwhile while you're in the field we're spinning up another operation finding out another Target for a direct action Mission and you guys get back and you be like hey man we got a Target for you you're rolling out in 2 hours so and you know you just go to your guys and be like all right guys change your gear you're heading out we're loading vehicles in an hour and 30 minutes and you see guys just Turn and Burn yep yeah nobody said oh really like no just do it you know and yeah my whole that that platoon that I had on that deployment I mean them guys BTF I mean especially like the sisters kids those guys were you know we had the new guys we had the older guys and then we had the middle guys you know and you know you know spaz and uh squirel and Chucky those guys and Rex those guys were badass man CU I mean they just they didn't they were the meat kind of of the platoon and they were the ones that like had to do like most of the work you know the new guys helped them and the other older guys were more leadership positions yeah and they still work too but these guys worked and they just like yeah got r that and just got after it good dudes and day after day day after day after day I guarantee all them guys I I couldn't keep up with everyone after I retired I guarantee all of them guys are doing well in their careers cuz they're fantastic I I do see them and they are all kicking ass Roger that that's good for sure how does Tony decide what strategies tactics to use on a Mission Against an enemy curious about your thought process H well first of all you got to figure out which what we're talking about my experience in the Savages that we slayed and killed and shot uh first of all it's better to shoot someone in the back so you know a l you know an ambush where you can catch him walking away from you is always the best but front you just BTF and figure it out uh we're talking about sunu there you know the Art of War and you know I thought you know he says if you know yourself and your enemy you don't not don't need to fear thousand battles whatever well I know myself pretty damn good and I know my group pretty damn good and I didn't have time to read all that stuff and figure it out so I figured I'd just hate the enemy I'll just hate him and that hate will fuel my passion to make the operation as best I can and work at the best I can and learn from the mistakes that didn't that didn't work out but that's that kind of when you when you got that it kind of pyramids down and everything kind of works itself out you know and you can't be afraid to try something different because and you can't be afraid to Bounce It Off people that's was great about Joo I would I would bounce something off of him you know and he but yep that's good or he'd go now now wait a minute cuz he wouldn't let it go you know be like can I walk me through this again Roger we're gonna do that that that and uh I would also really when i' let other people run operations or I would work with other groups I would I would just kind of wait for when they glanced over something and i' go wait a minute okay go now what are we gonna do here well you know we're just going to do this I I don't know I don't know what that means please explain it to me well and they hadn't really thought about it and that's the little glitch in the mission plan that's going to get you killed MH but you can't you know you can't take a lot of time to plan it up sometimes sometimes it's like all right you know what an assault here we're going to go we're going to go in strong like Cowboys or we're going to go on the prowl we're going to go in syruptitious entry be real stealthy sometimes you can't sometimes it calls for a straight up punch them up you know just mix it up and BTF you know and that's easy to do because you don't got to plan much okay let's just go over there and kill everybody show us where they go and we'll go yep so I don't know if that answers that question but and from my perspective uh I mean and you just kind of made it sound like big no big deal but Tony was always pouring over the imagery looking at the maps trying to figure out which angle trying to figure out the best spot trying to that's what he was doing all the time just trying to analyze as much as he could and make the best plan and and I think also man the The Experience level you know cuz like I said right even even prear pre 911 how many freaking Ops did you and I do training Ops where we did all this stuff 2000 yeah it's just like over and over and so by the time you get there it's really even though these weren't combat operations you get you we learned a lot from them and there was little adjustments we had to make for sure but for the most part what you learned how to do what you learned how to do is you learn how to take a group of guys and get them to do something right and when you learn how to do that okay that that's then you okay you want us to do this cool I know how to take a group of guys and get them to do something it doesn't matter what that thing is I can get a group of guys to do something and that's what's beneficial y that's what all that year years of experience helps you out with it doesn't necessarily help you I mean it didn't help us with with doing the specific mission that night no no cuss not cuz you can't can't cover everything no I mean at that point I had three years as an instructor in land Warfare and it was my eight ninth deployment so I I'd been in you know eight platoon or whatever and there's not much more I was going to you know learn from another 6 months of training I mean it's pretty much I mean there's no real thing I was going wow I've never done this before you know like yeah okay yeah yeah all right what was the most difficult thing you ever did as a seal when was the most fearful moment in your life well I get ass this a lot and uh tell you the truth it's got nothing to do with you know the bombs and the wars and the killing and stuff it's like I never ever baded an eye skydiving or static lining jumping into the water jumping at night never bothered me one bit you know not at all never even was scared at all but I don't like getting on the roof you know what I mean like I hate being a 40 foot ladder in a man lift you know I work for a landscaping company sometimes we're up in the man lift like man this kind of sucks and I'll admit it I'm a little bit afraid of heights at that level and repelling off a building one more morning in Hong Kong you like a 60 story building and we're repelling off and then going through a window and you got a training you got to shoot these targets and stuff and I mean it's pretty cool but I didn't like it at all and this morning it was windy and the building's actually moving and I look down I'm going on a Repel you know I'm edging over the side I'm on the top of this building and the people look like raisins you know down there and I mean that NE to say I mean I I got to go to the bathroom I'm hung over and I was like oh my God but I'd rather die than be called a [ __ ] I'm GNA do it you know but I'd rather die than be a puss so that was pretty much the I'll never forget that day either it was terrible the most fearful moment or the most difficult thing you ever do is a seal retire without a doubt 100% retire and I'll leave it at that yeah I hear you all right Tony's favorite piece of Kit and over Tony's career what's what piece of gear has advanced the most not including night vision which obviously improved up to a bunch well I'll get to my favorite piece of gear kit but uh evolution of gear it's got to be you know there's a couple of things like I say boots the boot thing is phenomenal we got such good gear and Boots now also you got to look at navigation you know I I remember the first GPS's we we used to call them giant pieces of [ __ ] cuz they were like the size of an ammo crate yeah they were huge they were huge and they looked like a a t phone from the Korean War you know and uh but nowadays they're just badass you know it with global Positioning Systems I mean and also Communications y I mean your satellite communication is absolutely fantastic and everybody was in the military out there when we had all the old kicks and Diana pads and if you remember that HF high frequency and we did a lot of HF and stringing up antennas God terrible lit yeah literally stringing up you know 80 foot antennas so you could make a communication shot to some other distant station I Morris Co literally using Morris Co oh yeah absolutely Good Times but my favorite piece of Kit I would have to say is anything that you get in and drive cuz back in the day we didn't we didn't use any Mobility really everything was on foot and it's like holy [ __ ] that and the uh the 300 wind mag sniper rifle suppressed with a 22 power night Force scope on it is a wicked good piece of Kit let me tell you what I mean I can read your t-shirt at a click that's pretty good legit legit all right Tony what is the number one quality that allows a leader to lead men into uncomfortable conditions and succeed what's uncomfortable I guess just bad scenarios tough situations well I think keep it in your mind Mission men Mission men look guys you're not paid to sit here and here's what we got to do let's go do it yes uh it sucks sometimes it's bad but Mission men if you keep thinking that that's what we're paid to do the bottom line is you follow the orders of the guy above you and we're Team guys so that line bleeds a lot it has a lot of waves in it you know because he'll be like hey Tony what do you think we ought to do I don't know jao let's do this all right it sounds good but at any given time if he goes hey Tony this is what we're doing Roger that mhm and that's it even if it means dying because if you lead by example and you're humble and you're good to your guys and you know your guys and you let them know you but you don't wipe their ass and you don't take any [ __ ] from them and they know you they'll follow you you know if you're humble and you make mistakes admit it and move on and I think that's um I know a few of my guys probably most of them would follow me wherever we want you know and uh I guess that's just CU I never changed they always knew what they're going to get from me that's about it steady yep yeah the other uh other big thing is making sure people understand why they're doing what they're doing because like Tony just said man we we're gonna have discussions about stuff and say hey this is why this is why well this is why I think we should do it this way you know it's not just like go and do now there are situations of course where someone goes hey go and execute this now hey go hit that building hey take guys over there there's times in combat where you got to make those decisions and you got to make things happen and that's when you talk that's when that's when the important things that you just talked about having a me just trust right like I I just had trust in my guys they trusted me that if I was telling them to do something it was the right thing to do and by the way if I told Tony go take that building over there and he looked at me and said Negative not now I knew he was saying that to me for a reason yeah wired in front of it or something yeah there was a reason why he was telling me that and we're not going to have that discussion probably don't have time to do it right right now I'd say okay then we got to get out of here and he' okay okay Roger Roger and then we'd go so man having that trust building up that trust through you know the humility the relationship all that stuff is is how you end up with a tight unit and that's how you really that's how you lead Tony did you have the same attitude towards death as Joo were you prepared to die uh was I prepared to die yes in a second that's get that over with right away uh I really didn't have an attitude to death except for you know making other people die the bad guys then I didn't care about them I didn't I guess I dehumanized them in my mind so it wouldn't bother me because it you know because they're just they're just they're not people they're a Target and you just whack them and that's it and uh I was I was definitely prepared to die matter of fact you know I thought that would be like the end of my career like kind of but um I thought it would be the end of your career too [ __ ] um there was a couple guys in our task unit I was not scared to die at all there was a couple guys in our task unit that I I did not think were going to make it because they were just like I was like oh yeah I'm GNA be giv a speech at his funeral cuz he's a fired up young kid that does not care about yeah not the other way for those of you out there like oh he like didn't do his job he was like yeah no like like just guys that were so so fired up that uh yeah and like even our guys that did get killed there wasn't one of them where I thought oh he's he wasn't ready for that right yeah he was did he want of course those guys didn't want it I would love to have him here they would love to be here but at the moment of truth they they did what I what I would think they would would have done right right none of them did I say oh it's a shame or or anything like that because those guys had those attitudes of they were there they were they they loved their job they loved doing their job they believed in what they were doing and that that's the way it was absolutely all right Tony's view on training mentoring integrating new guys into the tun yeah I mean I've been on the lpo side of that I've been on the not new guy side of that I've been on the new guy side of that I've been on the chief side of it and uh I usually told the guys you know you're on time be motivated CU it's fun for those of you that think like the SEAL Teams to me is a thousand times more than I thought it would be it's a [ __ ] blast it's the best thing ever it's the best men's club in the world and uh but like you said you're trying to build these guys have these guys build their own reputation you know confidence nobody has any confidence in the first day at the team nobody um try to instill confidence in him and uh I used to tell them you know should be seen not heard carry a pen and paper be on time and shut the [ __ ] up nobody cares about any of your stories where you from or that crap you know St Stripes you know eventually that'll come out in a year you know so just just ask questions if you need to be on time listen do your job and uh show the guys the right way to do things and if it's not the right way you know tell them how to know the difference show them how to know do what they did for me you know and they look you look in their eyes and they're just like right rer but no you don't get it you have no show me what I just said okay just say you don't understand you know but that's about it just try to be uh you know fair with them and direct that's about it lead by example one thing I want to say there is about uh you know talk about being steady we had a situation one time when I was I was a platoon Chief and we were working hide Wicked hide like going optempo was through the roof the battle Rhythm was shot to hell cuz it was just go go go go go and the guys were getting tired and stuff and we had a meeting about it and I didn't say anything and like if we can just slow down a little bit you know and I like okay I mean legitimate [ __ ] you know cuz sometimes you go go go like that things get unsafe and you start making mistakes but we hadn't really made any mistakes that that point and I said put it in perspective at this time like daba some of them guys were like 22 23 years old I was like 38 and I go I use the analogy like we used to say You're only as fast as the slowest guy in your Patrol maybe the guy that's got more weight carrying more equipment so he sets the pace and I go they go they you agree with that and everyone's like yeah yeah go well we'll take a break when the oldest guy here gets tired and that's me and I'm not tired enough said okay Roger that go to work they're just like H all right Roger so hopefully some of the new guys learn something on that one yeah yeah no doubt about that it's uh leading from the front you know if no doubt about it all right how does one put the high of War behind him and his he and and are you always searching for it still in other things uh have I transitioned to civilian life kind of is a little I just don't like it I mean it's it's terrible like there's no action I mean there's no you know go and who didn't like going to work on a Monday morning yeah it was the best I mean and you know and that and and by the way you went to work on Sunday you went to work on Saturday just every oh oh like some of the guys the team oh yeah it's a weekend no we'll be at the team we're going to be working out they're be working on our gear then we're going to go have some beer then we're going to go out then we're going to wake up the next morning and do the same thing on Sunday and then we're going to come in on Monday that's what it is yeah cuz who cares about what else are you going to do yeah what else are you going to do like oh you go with your friends go with your friends all my friends are in the team I know so so it gives you nothing so oh that's it go back to whatever failed relation [Laughter] yeah so uh that can definitely be a little tricky am I searching for another things probably you know uh I don't know I that's such a hard question to put in perspective I mean I live in New Hampshire now and I work 40 hours a week and I do all right but I don't there's no you know the Magic in my life is like G onone I mean that was that was the magic the glue that held me together as the teams you know and you know I got some good families back there you know that that help me out like friends of mine friends of my family and like the Murphy you know the Daniels the DSes I mean there's just it's a if you know if I don't get to people back home's name I'm sorry but uh you know I got really good friends that that try to help me kind of but they just have no idea like you know there's one old team guy from back there that's like from the 70s you know and I talk to him and it's like Roger you know then there's a sergeant major retired 30 years back there but it's a small town and it's like I drink a lot and you know I work a lot too so I'm kind of functioning that way but there's no I don't know I know I guess I'm still looking for something but it's just the high Wars just like I know it's I think you could say it's the [ __ ] best it's like the best thing ever you know and once you get done with a big firefight you're like you want to go back and like can we do that again and again and again so much fun I mean even I mean it sucks it's hard but it's it's it's great I mean would just cuz if you think about like they say Heroes right to me the real heroes are them guys standing a post out there with minimal training that don't want to be there and still do their job you find American soldiers Sailors Marines you know Airmen whatever for us that's our profession like you know that's like we didn't even want to go home it's like our blood and our guts it's in our DNA that's where we want to be so I mean how do you you don't just you do all that stuff for all those years there's going to be side effects you know there's going to be I don't care you know I'm not going to go I don't go see a counselor or nothing because cuz I think I'm strong enough that you know I can handle it but it's not easy you know it's like when people when people always come up and they say you know thank you for serving they they always say that and you know I say hey it was an honor to serve but what I really want to say and sometimes if it's a deeper conversation I'm like don't thank me I feel guilty because it was so fun and and like you guys paid me to do this like what did you do when you were a little kid I ran around the woods and played military stuff and put camouflage put old black cork on my face and played with guns and beat shot BB guns and that's what I did all the time as a kid and then I I grew up and I turned 18 and then they started paying me money to do the same thing I know and then they said oh there's a bunch of bad guys you go kill them oh okay they we'll give you more money and then yeah so so people say thank you and it sort of it definitely makes you feel like damn man I got so lucky the day I enlisted in the mil military I got so lucky because it was like you know it was like a the the square peg found the square hole basically right and that's what a lot of Team guys are like and that's why when all of a sudden the square they go okay you can't use that that square hole anymore they pull you out and there's a triangle there you're just like yeah yeah yeah work yeah it's so true and they the service to me I went in when I was eight I listed when I was 17 went in when I was 18 got out when I was what 45 44 whatever and it never lied to me they always paid me and they'll pay me for the rest of my life and everything they said was true do this they go oh the military's a bunch of [ __ ] yeah there's little things but overall you know I didn't have to like figure out figure out like a woman and you know I was all wishy-washy about [ __ ] and stuff and you know and well that's just part of whatever being a man and stuff but they never lied to me it was always just really really good and civilian life's not like that I mean I deal with people and for the most part everybody out there is a good person I believe but I get mad because of the misuse of the military now I mean it's so misuse it's crazy grab 200,000 badass army soldiers and Marines go over to where Isis is and smoke these sons of [ __ ] what are we waiting for I I don't get it because but on the flipcoin people are like we got to pay the deficit because we don't want our children to pay it yeah but you want them to fight the war let's we got the muscle right now I don't know what we're waiting for this is a Croc of [ __ ] hopefully that'll change yeah hopefully it will change uh you know what do one more question here how do you keep your head in the game when one of your squad is killed yeah you know well I think for me you have to treat it like Mission men in that order and to me there's no use you know the milk is on the floor there's no use crying over it you know EOD doesn't you know defuse a bomb that already went off okay what you got to do is try not to lose any more of your men okay now you just got to do the mission with the dead guy and I know that sounds maybe cruel or something there ain't no time to sit there and mourn or do any of that you have to complete your op you have to do your mission right um there's plenty of time to mourn there's plenty of time to figure out what went wrong or what didn't go wrong or whatever happened when you're back and the op's done and that's why we train like that when we train and we going through a building and they put a guy down you just step over him and clear the house cuz you don't want to get you know more than one killed you just have to do what you've been trained to do and in the leadership position it's very hard not to you know you can train all your life but when something happens like that it's very hard not to just go oh my God I got somebody killed you know what happened what happened cuz I take it very personally cuz it was one of my guys and I racked my brain for a long time and then uh I figured out that well you know I just got to do my job and be a leader you know and I can't let the rest of the guys down and I can't let myself down or my team and my country so I got to do what I got to do to get out of there not get out of there but complete the op and then figure it out then take care of them as best we can and have a lot of respect and that's about best way I can answer that bro yeah you know I I remember uh after Mark got killed and he was obviously was the first he killed in Iraq he's the first guy that ever worked for me that got killed and I remember a couple days went by we actually did the memorial ceremony um and like a couple days went by and I was kind of trying to figure out what to say to the platoons specifically what to say to your platoon right and I was sort of uh and I realized what I was doing right what I was doing was the only thing I knew how to do which is work yep and finally I remember I was I WR that's what I that's what I wrote down I'm like look Mark came into your platoon and and I said hey Mark is the best [ __ ] ever yeah he was and my [ __ ] soul is crushed right now and I actually remember as I was talking I started getting emotional [Music] and I I stopped and I was getting a little choked up and I stopped talking and I was just trying to get it together and you were sitting there and you're like hey man it's okay yep and I was like check this is what I'm going to do I'm G to work yep and this is what we're going to do work we're going to work you know when that happened I was thinking about that I I never ever once shed one tear and I started getting like concerned like do I have anything my feelings at all and then we came back from that deployment I remember maybe I don't know know six months later or something it may not sound like it may shock you but I used to like cats I used to like cats you know you always seem like a cat guy I like dogs too you know like just me and my girlfriends at the time had cats and my cat died and I balded like a little baby for like three hours and it just I think it was just a point in me waiting for it to come out you know and i' be like okay cuz your team guy around that stuff all the time people getting maimed shot killed and blown up and you know and then it kind of festers and then I I I think you know it's kind of deep and stuff but whatever I'm not really that deep of a person and it just came out and I was like you know that's kind of cool yeah so maybe I was just you know I took the like beod thing a little too too too much probably but well I think that's about all we've got for tonight and uh thanks everybody for asking those questions Tony you got any got anything else you want to say any closing comments n i just shout out to all my my Chums and uh all my brothers and the teams and you know all the people that know me my family and everybody and uh thanks for being so nice to me and the teams thanks for being so nice to me and letting me do all those wicked cool things things you know and uh Joo thanks for having me it's so good to see you my brother Echo pleasure I mean just just phenomenal you know you don't know how many people watch your show or watch this well what fires me up the most is uh obviously the military guys and the team guys and the team guys that are you know our Bros that are like hey man that was great oh yeah I learned and I that just gets me uh that's why I'm doing this man that's why I'm doing this and yeah that's that's what means the most to me and and having you on here obviously is uh is phenomenal so um everybody that is out here that's listening to this thanks for listening to the podcast thanks for supporting it if you do want to support the podcast a little bit Echo Charles tell them quickly how to do it actually like actually I do have one one more question go ahead um you know how okay you're like a hard guy I know this put real simply and this might be kind of an ambiguous question but like that example you say it was real hot and you're not even drinking water you're drinking coffee in Copenhagen yeah kind example like why is that you know how cuz it it's a spectrum right like a lot of people like some people they can be Big M they can run you know 10 miles no problem all this stuff but they get in certain kind of discomfort physically or whatever they're done or you get these big guys or whatever theyd miss one meal they're done right right right they're thorough BRS yeah so you're like the are like I was part of that crew in the teams like fist fought and drank a lot and so that kind of trained us like being hung over and stuff like I mean we'd be like hung over and go to work and you work out for three hours yeah so these guys would I knew guys who like they could never do that right so we were kind of like Bottom Feeders so when [ __ ] got bad we're like yeah whatever yeah I I will make a I'm not like that anymore like I work I need to drink water cuz I'm not used to it anymore you know yeah I I would there was some kind of a genetic component like right like like I I freely admit like I don't sleep a lot right and I understand that it's not just cuz like I'm just tough It's CU there's some genetic component in there that doesn't require a lot of sleep and and and you know I have one of my told this before like one of my daughters I'll go to bed at like 11:30 she'll be awake and then I'll wake up at 4:30 in the morning and she'll be awake like she's genetically she doesn't need a lot of sleep so I know I'm kind of like that too and there's some just FYI for Tony there's something genetic about the water intake because I mean I did patrols and stuff with you and you know I I mean I'm fairly hard but I need water you know I would need to carry more water than you and you know never never would I be like a a a [ __ ] about it like but no you know I I I I would need like twice as much water as Tony would need and I don't weigh twice as much I mean I'm whatever I'm maybe 40 40 lbs heavy or something like that but so there's some genetic component that makes you need less water and makes me need a decent amount of water yeah so again also I spent a lot of time at nylon yeah yeah for sure you're acclimated to it I'm not like that now like I need a lot of water but even even overall above and beyond just the water situation where and you're like this too a lot we're kind of talking about this where do you think that you know like if you just sit around indoors and after a while you're like bro I got to get out oh yeah a lot of people they're not like that they they're the opposite there's like dang there's a lot going on outside I better stay indoors yeah even even big tough strong guys a lot of people are like that is it and does does this kind of fall in line with why you took to the team so oh that's absolutely EO you're like that to without a doubt and I'll tell you again going back to give credit where credit's due man the people that we were raised by the same people in the teams yeah and those guys they didn't complain about anything they showed no weakness ever ever nothing like oh you're tired they would NE you'd never hear a guy say he was tired ever ever No no uh you know hurt doesn't matter uh uh broken something no just be quiet put tape on it shut up yeah and that's and so when you're brought up that way and I mean it was blatantly obvious when you got the teams like if you you just know there was no no just don't complain about anything just be just suck it up oh this sucks yeah don't even admit that it sucks don't ever do that yeah and be quiet that's that's probably the best way to explain it yeah that and like I didn't have anything else but that like I said I wasn't the best shooter I wasn't the the biggest guy but I had that I always had that I remember one time we were training and you know like after round is done you like a lot of people and I was one of those people you just you just flop on your back and lay down and get your rest yeah week one yeah bro one time long time ago took your eyes off your enemy that was more or less the attitude he was like you look a little tired there almost like it was when you first kind of started coaching me up a lot and you were like you look a little tired there but it wasn't a joke it was kind of like as if you really wanted to say bro don't do that right there like Stand Up Walk you're like showing weakness like I don't like how you do that that was really the tone that was so that makes a lot of sense right there but that being said I think it goes I feel like it goes a little bit above and beyond just having a skill or or being really good at being able to tolerate pain I I feel like just like how you were saying I think you know a few weeks ago you're were like there is there is a word want some a little bit of pain to show him Al kind of thing right absolutely but like in our case I think it can be C Catu is that we are uh we we're lunatics yeah like Mass because who wants who no who wants just be a frog man for 20 some years I mean that's just put so hard on your body yeah yeah but we are lucky yeah lucky but a guy like Tim frell who you talked about earlier I mean all the guys that we talked about Mr F I mean he's how old he when we were coming up on the teams he was 46 47 years old he was all broken he you know broken knees broken ankles guess what out there on a six and a half mile run oh yeah every single time and what were the complaints none not one none ever just just Crush everyone and just be actually like like Mr fa he wouldn't he wouldn't Crush people on the run but you'd see him hobbling yeah across the finish line and you'd be like that had to hurt so bad but he just oh whatever yeah put a little tape on it whatever I fell out of a helicopter and broke my heel bone on hallowe day yeah and I deployed in well actually I went over it before our deployment so I deployed in March dang yeah I got I got Hamed and I cut my cast off with these bolt cutters and that wasn't a good idea and uh I remember the master chief of the command he he'd be he's like he wanted to make sure I was good to go to go over to Seas so I'd be walking down the hallway and I'd see him I'd walk purpose and it hurt so bad like go how you doing I stand ass [ __ ] shoot the [ __ ] with him from that good good Roger all right hey I got to go go in the bathroom you go in the head and be like I mean I was still hobbling when we deployed but it just it just kind of went away there's no way I would have missing that no way way like I think most of us are like that maybe to begin with but maybe taught like out of it cuz you know I mean even an everyday person if they they do something kind of hard a workout or even you know something like people will Rec creation will be like I think I want to run a marathon or something like that so when they do something hard or kind of painful some kind of adversity and it's done you feel good I think that's a natural thing right absolutely like people like like look at my cool scar you know that kind of thing but it kind of feels like and I'm kind of listening and stuff from as an outsider a little bit here it kind of seems like those shackles of kind of being trained out of that just didn't happen for you guys and and guys like you you know oh yeah maybe we got trained in the other way right yeah well I think you you guys just held on to it you know oh absolutely like it just yeah yeah there's there's no doubt and there's a bunch of bunch of badass frog men that are in the teams yeah that's all and you know you you know you can go talk to the Marines army soldiers tough bastards oh yeah cake nuts okay so when when he's living here we're rolling G what's that thing that c it's like this syndrome when you just work out without Beyond RAB rabdo rabdom myosis yeah so he gets that by the way and he um it's just from his best friend growing up two two of his best friends growing up our team guys I'll tell you who they are later oh nice so he's we're rolling Jiu-Jitsu and he's like going every day of just all day he's like just doing DJ and he's not he's kind of quiet you know he's like oh we're all done we've been done hard day then like you know the guys who showed up later whatever they're still kind of they're like hey you want to roll K like this okay like that so he never says no the next week I guess he had to go to the doctor or whatever the next week he's like yeah you have that rabo like have you been doing a lot of physical output you know this he's like yeah just been freaking I know but that's the exactly what I'm saying but but normally that stops a guy in his tracks while they're training and he's just like no just keep training oh someone else wants to tr I mean I remember one time he said like oh I'm kind of tired I me he said that but he didn't say I'm done rolling you know you look tired yeah no but man yeah awesome that's what think awesome uh all right any other questions from Echo Charles no that's it we can um we can go to support you know let's wrap it up how can they support if you want to support this is how you can you know we talk about getting after it a lot from time to time um and supplementation is not a form of weakness would you agree Tony I would agree right supplement right best supplements because now these supplements can be kind of whack on it fortunately someone uh on Twitter was asking me about uh shroom Tech shroom Tech like oh how does it work and all this stuff here's the thing this is I know that it helps or I've heard from credible source that it helps with oxygen uh utilization so you know like high intensity that that kind of goes prolonged or whatever but you can read on it on the website they have all the like the actual Literature Like the test and all this stuff on all this stuff anyway so it's legit we all know it's legit I think that's kind of common knowledge by now you can get 10% off if you want supplements on it.com joaco just gojco get a warrior bar as well my my suggestion a lot of good stuff on there next way Amazon so if you shop on Amazon like we all do click through the website our website Joop podcast.com there's a little link there little Banner on the on the side and uh you know go through am or go to Amazon through there and of course subscribe to the podcast on iTunes and YouTube still more videos to come by the way and of course Joo store if you like any shirts that we um we have we did it I think we expended a lot of mental energy making sure that the shirts are good to go as they say or as you would say kind of dope kind of dope yeah but dope meaning not just hey they're dope cuz we said so we try to put different layers on them you know you know how it's not like it just says hey I'm cool or I don't know whatever it's it it says something and then there it means something as well right where if you don't know what it means you just don't know that's one layer you don't know about it you know this one has a couple layers sometimes three just saying they're not just normal sh and their quality as well just saying they're good anyway you can uh judge for yourself as far as how they look Joost store.com if you like them go get a shirt support that way or a mug or a sticker whichever or Rashard or Rashard yes so new things Rashard if you didn't know already rash cards are good biking diving swimming surfing bodyboarding CrossFit any kind of Olympic lifting where you need Mobility is it's actually better than Cotton shirts they like you know what I mean and ju-jitsu last but not least andj the jiujitsu Andy did good and today yeah Andy a super big Andy bark representing it wasn't a super fight it was a bracket by the way oh I thought it was super fight decision heel hook dang Andy representing and uh yeah he did in fact have traska see what we were talking about the 17 what was 17 to 19% Improvement in yeah and I in my in my uh Bro Science like opinion I think that applies to all physical activity when you wear this rash card I I'm I'm a Believer and for those of you that don't know uh Echo Charles does have a doctorate in Bro Science yeah I'm working on it and um okay so new stuff uh also we have patches I have velcro the velcro ones you know like this kindon um and then women's stuff as well they're tank tops okay I got you we're going to do t-shirts as well thank you Lisa for the um the nudge you know and then um yeah there it is that's the stuff maybe some more some more cool stuff you know the seasons are changing so we'll put some more stuff on there if you guys like gets cold need some warm gear potentially let's get it done yeah but there it is yeah support and thanks for everyone with the that who has supported that's dope if you want to get some of this goodness right here a little bit of uh pomegranate white tea available on amazon.com Joo white tea the only thing I drink other than water and milk so jump on the train also if you haven't got a copy of extreme ownership yet which me and my brother Leif Babin wrote which has a ton of Tony who you heard from tonight a ton of Tony in there anytime you're hearing about the Charlie platoon Chief or Charlie platoon doing this or Char that's the guy who was running it and making it happen uh you can pick up the hard copy digital copy or the audio book and that LE and I actually read in October 20th and 21st in San Diego California if you're a leader or you want to be a leader come on out to the extreme ownership muster where we're going to teach the principles of combat leadership and we're going to get in the Weeds on the tactics of how to actually employ them it's one thing to know them but you got to know how to employ them on the battlefield on the street in the business world or in life so register and then come and get it and as always if you want to keep kicking it with us Echo Charles and myself we're all up on the interwebs Twitter Instagram and that Facebook uh Echo Charles is at Echo Charles I'm at joaco willink I don't think Tony has any of that stuff I too busy BTF yeah I a got no time for bf.com yeah yeah just don't contact me.com and uh to all the motivated Troopers out there especially first off those in uniform military law enforcement firefighters EMTs thanks for what you all do thanks for working hard for training hard for living hard and for fighting hard and for holding the line and the rest of you folks out there the rest of you Troopers in the workforce attacking your daily struggles smashing obstacles keep doing what you're doing and doing it with focus and some ferocity and finally to Tony thanks again my brother for coming on the show thanks for the years you put in training fighting and leading thanks for always being there to support me no matter what no matter what yes sir thanks for what you did for me for the task unit for the teams for the Navy and for the United States of America and you know Tony is one of the many veterans from every war who remains in the shadows who seeks no glory who did what he did as his his duty for country and for his brothers on his left and now on his right so to all of you veterans like Tony the true quiet professionals thanks to you Warriors who have set the example of how to serve and of course how to get after it so until next time this is Ekko and Joo and the original BTF tonyia fratty thanks brother ditto enough said check Roger Roger out

Channel: Jocko Podcast

Views: 465,250

Keywords: btf tony, jocko willink, podcast, echo charles, navy SEAL, military, discipline, freedom, leadership, platoon, ramaddi, iraq war

Id: bHdur0fmxis

Length: 131min 46sec (7906 seconds)

Published: Wed Sep 21 2016