Welcome to The Summit Series with Ari melver and we have a very special one today I am joined by billionaire hedge fund investor founder and philanthropist Leon cooperman who founded a a hedge fund after many decades at Goldman Sachs and is uh one of the foremost philanthropists having committed to the giving pledge and Beyond which we'll get into and we are here in your home in Florida thanks for having us pleasure to have you thank you thank you very much uh you have written that under no other system system would the son of a Polish immigrant plumber reach your position um what do you mean by that and what do you attribute your success to good question my father came to America at the age of 12 as a plumbers Apprentice in 1920 uh he had no education uh I grew up in very Min circumstances in the Bronx I went to Public School in the Bronx Southeast Bronx P 75 I went to Hunter College which is now called Leman College in the Bronx and then I had a short s at Columbia business school which opened the door to Wall Street I started my career in Wall Street with a six-month old child a negative net worth no money in the bank a student loan to repay which is why I had negative net worth I made a lot of money and I'm giving it all back to the system you know uh I basically took the G Gates Buffett giving pledge I took a Jewish giving pledge with Mike Le so I'm going to give 50% to each and what I don't give away during my lifetime I intend to leave in a foundation for my children and grandchilden to give away how do you think you would have fared in a different Society or country with less Mobility I would say I'm blessed to have been born in America and I hope it stays that way it's not on a good Trend currently you know unfortunately I I read that you said I'll admit it it's hard and it's gotten harder to get rich but n the 99% can still join the 1% it's possible with enough luck and commitment what do you mean by that and it getting harder as you alluded to well you know basically looking at my own situation uh I basically contribute My Success to hard work luck and intuition so hard work and luck does not require a lot of explanation intuition does in the summer of 1963 I went to University of Pennsylvania summer school and took physical chemistry which is the last course of my major and I then enrolled in University Pennsylvania School of Dentistry after eight days you know you you're smiling but after eight days I started to wonder if I was pushing myself in a direction I was fully committed and it was very traumatic time in my life uh it's easy to just talk about and the words roll off your tongue but you know I had paid tuition and room and board for for a year I lost that if I went back to undergraduate I drilled my initials LC into $1,200 worth of equipment which was rendered useless but after eight days in dental school I started to wonder if I was pushing myself in a direction that I was fully committed my father May rest in peace was walking around say my son a dentist and I went to DEA dental school who was very nasty he said Mr coopman how can you make your mind up in 8 days you know you deprived 101st applicant to a dental education and and the only guy that understood the trauma I went to was Glen T nigrin who was deceased he was a dean at Hunter College who had to approve my matriculating back into undergrad of school he had a very courageous decision of course you can come back so that call what you're what you're referring to his intuition took you in a better Direction your life has shown that how do you differentiate between what you're calling intuition and fear fear what if your father had said to you well maybe you're just afraid to go through dental school you need to give it more time you're afraid you got to push past this feeling yeah I fear was not an issue with me it was just basically doing you know in subsequent years I do a lot of talks with young kids at school I said the only way to be successful is to do what you love and love what you do you know in today's society you got to work very hard it's a very competitive society and uh I found what I love doing I worked very hard at Goldman Sachs second example I give you of intuition to digress back to where we're talking before mhm uh and when I graduated Columbia business school I was a very attractive package I was beta Gamma Sigma which was equiv with a five b cap in business I was the Wall Street Journal student Achievement Award recipient I was trade a in finance had a six-month old child I knew what I wanted so it was a very attractive package back then I had 16 job offers four of which were for more money I'm very anal you know I I I I show up on time I do what I say I'm going to do and it was one of the few times in my life I passed a deadline without acting so I got a call from the guy who made me the job offer he's also deceased how many the ameritus and everything now were deceased all my buddies are deceased unfortunately including my closest friend my older brother who died two years ago but anyway uh the fellow who may be the offer called me said Lee we disappoint we haven't heard from you what can we say so I said Bob I'm dead broke but have four job offers for more money but I liked everybody I interviewed at Goldman Sachs the offer was for $122,500 a year said you think I could make $25,000 a year in 5 years and I knew the compound interest tables if you double something in 5 years it's 15% compound he said if you work hard and keep your nose clean I think you could do it so okay I'm coming to Goldman what did that what did that mean when you say 12 to 25 that means you're getting that money raises or you're getting that level of in no my income Grew From 125 which was the offer to 25,000 I actually made 180,000 in the fifth year in the nth year we made a general partner of the firm now when I say intuition I liked everybody I met uh Goldman was the only one of the few firms that didn't change the name for 150 years and when I joined the firm it was probably a five or10 million earner I was made a partner in 1976 I earned 40 million when I retired in 1991 they earned 1.8 billion and I was there for the entire run so I made a great deal of money working at Cox they say they're the best of the best they've got all these Finance whizzes you come in there how do you figure out to rise up that quickly to partner and have run well the best way to succeed in any business is to do what your boss wants you to do and try to understand your objectives so I I joined the firm as an analyst and uh the job was to do the kind of research that would get buy side Institute in other words Goldman was in the sell side we sold our research to institutions that manage money and the goal was to get the people who do more business with you because they thought they you would give them better quality insights better quality information service them better and uh so I Rose in the ranks as a research analyst and then I Was Made part in charge of research in 1976 effective January 1 of 77 and I also was I carried water on two shoulders I also was a chief investment strategist which is where I made my reputation and when you did leave to start your hedge fund they said okay you got to hire two people to fill the vacancy that you one person left what does that tell you well uh I worked hard but I didn't mind I got rewarded I was very lucky I was very lucky to be at Goldman Sachs were you working harder than other people though if they had to fill you with well I was in the first in in every morning I got in it you know before 7 in the morning every morning first in of everyone at Goldman yeah and that's already go that a gold in my department in your department but that's already a lot of motivated people know when I took over the research Department we were unranked in the Institutional Investor poll all these surveys that try to measure your Effectiveness so there was Financial world the Institutional Investor All America team and then there was the greenage research Charlie Ellis started gr research and we were largely unranked when I took over the research department and after a number of years of running it from 1976 to 1991 we went from unranked to number one in Virtual all these polls and I was voted number one in investment strategy for nine consecutive years so that was my job and I did my job well you can't go higher than number one and it was not just me it was really the effess of the entire team was sales research and trading working together as a team so you like going number one who doesn't in anything competitive or business but you also have quoted uh Carnegie saying you have to surround yourself with more knowledgeable people so how do you balance that well uh very simple as con said he wanted as his epitet hair lies of man I I modify a little bit hair lies of man or woman you know back in 1900 when he made that comment women were not important part of the labor force I would say here he wanted his epti here lies a man or woman wise enough to bring into a service men or women smarter than he so I've always had the philosophy of try to find the very best people surround yourself with a very best people I've given him a shout out in my book he deserves it he's terrific Steve Einhorn I hire him from credential Insurance to work for me at Goldman for a number of years and after I retired he retired from Goldman and I gave him an opportunity to join me at Omega and he's done a terrific job and you also seem to prize people who might have a little bit of the hustle that you and your family had hustle is a word people use today very positively to say you really have to have that even above credentials and you talk about the PHD that you're interested in is different what do you what do you mean like poor hungry and driven you know basically uh I don't hire a resume anybody I hired I always told them the story about the gazelle and the lion and they explain it's a parable you know every morning in Africa gazelle wakes up know it knows it must run faster than the fastest lion will be eaten and every morning in Africa a lion wakes up and knows it must be faster than slowest gazelle W off to death it doesn't matter whether you're a gazelle or a lion when the sun comes up you better be running and that was my I wanted to hire those people that understood need for hard work you know we charge a premium fee and if somebody's going to pay you a 2% management fee and 20% to the profits they have every reason to expect a superior performance well at Omega you described this competition and you're coming out of Goldman so you have at that point more you're very established you have credentials you're you're putting your money in first which is of course telling people how much you believe in the buffer is famous for saying he eats his own cooking right I eat my own cooking I started Omega I took all the money I can get out of gold which you had to leave a lot of money in The Firm when you retired I put $35 million into Omega and you're how old at this point uh this was 1992 I was born in 1943 so it it's 50 something yeah so you're very much upper midcareer by the traditional standard by the social security standard so you take that $35 million and you go out to whom to get money I mean how does that work when you launch one of I go out to the invest different perspective investors and I raise a few $0000 million and we had a good record we beat the S&B by several hundred Paces points had a couple of lumps along the way and which we can get into you you touch on them in your book but at that juncture just so people understand because we're charting how you got all the way up to this Summit and then you're up here tide that lifted all the ships the mark but here's my question if somebody has that much money they have choices and they can go with a fund that has a track record and they can go with people that have a track record your track record is strong it's internal to Goldman but what is what do are you saying to them to say put your money in what is a new I think it's fair to say untested fund well here's a kid from the South Bronx that had no money it was had 35 million to put in and had a track record of outperformance where Goldman and I said I had ability both to pick good stocks and to manage people because when I ran the research Department we had well over 100 people that had a manage supervisor and direct and as I mentioned earlier we went from unranked to number one so I was an orchestra leader and a soloist soloist as a strategist an orchestra leader as a head of research do you have any memorable nose that you got when you were first canvasing oh yeah yeah I'd rather not mention those people I well you don't have to say their name but where you say hey here's the pitch and they say no thanks Leon orable Story is a guy you know what happened is my rettir from Goldman was announced in August of 1991 and the fiscal year for Goldman didn't end to the end of November my agreement with the firm was I would not solicit wouldn't take on new investors in terms of firm commitment until my fiscal year was over at Goldman and there was a guy that called me up I didn't call him up and said I'd like to invest with you so I said well I'd like to tell you my story so I really feel very strongly that unless someone understands your objectives you know if they invest with you and they have different objectives you can have a flawed relationship so I met with him he said I'm in and then when the time when the end of November rolled around I called him up if he had a wire in the money he didn't return a phone call and I sent a very nasty letter I said look I don't mind you're not investing but you know it seems to me that the least you could do is call up or have your secretary call up and say you've changed your mind you know people are very funny I'm very reliable I'm very accountable I'm a standup person and you find different kinds of people in the world by of large I've been blessed with good relationships yeah yeah that's striking the the field of these different uh companies and funds varies greatly uh Warren Buffett who's been established for both his investing acument his business acument also philanthropy um he has said some nice things about you but he's also been very critical of some of the managers and some of the space I'm curious what you think I want to let's listen to what Warren Buffett says they come in and they have lots of charts and PowerPoint presentations and they recommend people who in turn are going to char charge them a lot of money but the population as a whole American business has done wonderfully and the net result of hiring Professional Management you know is a huge minus and he's skeptical he says of what some people do in the space what do you say to that well everybody knows ask a golf club some people do it better than others uh you know Bill Parcels the former New York Giants coach say you are what your record says you are so you know some people do a good job some people less than a good job I think they all work hard and you know it's you have to discern and pick the right manager do you think the money management space is bloated if there are a lot of people charging uh they're Char they're charging fees and they're not always beating the market correct and I always and part of my objective is I want to beat the S&P net of all fees I want to do in a tax efficient manner see the one thing about Warren Buffett's record that's outstanding is his after tax results I don't know maybe 40 years ago he in one of his annual reports he showed you analysis where a money manager buys every year buys a new hot stock makes 15% sells it pays a taxes reinvests next year's hot stock makes 15% versus having a 40-year holding period and compounding a 15% it's a little bit of a hyperbola but the AFF tax money after 40 years is thousands of times more so he's very tax efficient and uh you know he's critical of the high turnover and the high course structure there's an element of Truth to that yeah I mean so on the one hand uh these companies are returning a lot and you can look at the long-term track record if people are in the markets even just regular people with a little bit in in a 401k it's going to help them long term on the other hand as you know uh there's a lot of criticism of this space and not everyone's uh giving back the money the way you and Buffett and others are I wanted to read you what Obama who I know you've you've weighed in on but during the financial crisis you know he said at a time when most of these institutions were teetering on collapse they asked taxpayers to sustain them and then gave themselves big bonuses which is irresponsible shameful it has nothing to do with hedge funds it has to do with the fair Banks but you're invested in all of these I'm curious what you think of that point well I'm of the view that corporate managements in general are overcompensated for what they do they tend to get paid well overpaid for failing and there's a big problem for investors like me to deal with you know the guy that I loved the most or I respected the most as an investor was Dr Henry Singleton who was the founder of Tel and uh he died a billionaire but he never paid himself more than a million dollars a year prospered as the shareholder prospered and he was absolutely brilliant in a Class by Himself uh I'm going to turn us to one of the chapters in your book you get into this whole clash with the SEC you're someone who clearly doesn't avoid a run from what people might call a difficult topic and so uh you have a line in there this is how I'd like to start it you have a line in there where you say people congratulated you on a victory because in the end you reached a settlement you had no wrongdoing I don't think we're going to rehash every detail of it but you say they they're saying congratulations but you feel like it really was a process that cast a kind of cloud over the firm and everything else yeah well had you know well let me get you my question and then you get so my question is twofold one uh what do you think the regulation should look like because we don't think most people that the richest most powerful people in the world should be completely unregulated there has to be protection of the markets um and two and this is more the you side of it um this is all in your past why was it important to you to to bring it up to write about it in the book why why do you want to come back to this uh my my book was my Memoir and I can't do selective recall okay well not everyone thinks that way as you know some people say I'm only going to write part of my life my life is an open book okay an open book in 2016 I would not vote for Clinton or Trump I wrote a Mitt Romney in 2020 I voted for Biden as a vote against Trump I think his behavior was disgusting I would not vote for Biden or Trump in 2024 uh I don't know maybe I'll write you in you seem like a very reasonable guy that's kind of you say I'm not on the ballot but go but go ahead you neither was Romney when I wrote him in well that's okay I'm not going to vote for Biden I'm not going to vote for Trump trump is a disgusting human being he belongs in jail in my opinion now now that I'm not affiliated with any organization I can speak my mind you know Aristotle said apathy and indifference are the last virtues of a society so I tend to speak by mind and I've lost sight of your question so we'll come back I'll remind you because we can get into politics but the first question was the SEC history and you put it in the book and you wanted to bring this back up as part of explaining things and so my question was a why do that and B um there has to be an SEC right there has to be I believe in regul I believe in intelligent regulation the SEC had a right to investigate me uh but they were not interest in the effects you know all they want is a notch on their belt and then take that notch on their Bel and get a job in the private sector they don't give a about what is right and what is wrong so you think the people who work there the incentives aren't yeah they all they all they they all left shortly after my settlement I uh everybody congratulated me because they said no admit no deny no time out you won that's the sophisticated people I SP million $10 million of money I could have given the charity I'm defending myself you're referring to the way they do it no timeout meaning you weren't even you and your team weren't even barred from participating in the markets which can happen to some people right um but what they say they're doing right is trying to make sure there wasn't insider trading but but there wasn't any inside training that had enough evidence I own the stock in question for 10 years I own the stock in my wife's account my son's account my own account and I did not buy a share for myself when I allegedly had ins information I got one new account in and I brought them a 2% position to rebalance them to everybody else which is my obligation I agreed to manage the money comparably across all accounts so they knew this and uh they were just very mean-spirited they had no interest in settling we were told them they would lose I'm not allowed to say they lost because you know you you you enter into a no admit no deny yeah you have that called that way so my qu that's the personal question for you you look back over this career many wins clearly and this one a no admit no deny which other people said oh well you they didn't find anything wrong um does it still bother you a lot it bothers me because it hurt the business you know what happened is the individuals that knew me they stuck institutions under the guise of fiduciary responsibility I had a billion dollar withdrawal resulting from the investigation they D billion dollar of people of Institutions including gold sex y money yanking money your former Goldman colleague the yanked money yeah well it's uh you know they don't want to use common sense I met with the pension committee who asked to meet with me over the investigation I walk into a conference room there were a dozen people there I only knew one of the 11 others only one of the 12 I said look I going to have three things to say to you number one I you managed your money for 15 20 years whatever it was and I've done a good job you 300 basis points above the S&P 500 your 600 basis points above the Russell 2000 that's number one I've done a good job for you number two I don't want to say the fee is low but it's a below Market fee because of a historical relationship you want 15 you not 2 and 20 number three goldion knew better than know better than anybody wrongful accusations on government because government is government has been accused of a number of wrong over the years but would they say they were just looking at this situation as risk yeah exactly just risk you would become risk and I said do me a favor pick up the phone call my lawyers I'll tell you that there's no case here we're going to win they called nobody the next day they fired me I don't blame them for the publicity because half the people in Goldman Sachs profit Shing and pension plan are no longer with the company no it's just interesting the way you you come at it in the book uh you you mentioned the the presidential candidates it's looking very likely that they were going to have a rematch uh Trump says he's been unfairly maligned and attacked you need a businessman in the white house uh some of the people you know including some Republicans in Florida uh want to get him back into the White House what do you say to his case for getting back in well it's very strange his economic ideas my opinion are superior to Biden but his deportment is not presidential and that's part of it he is not qualified to be a leader of the Free World you know and he's just a bad human being his personal life has been a mess and uh I would never vote for him under any circumstances and I don't think I would vote for Biden again I vot so you voted for for Biden last time as you say a vote against Trump um what was your concern then with Trump looking for a second term when when you voted for Biden against Trump what was animating that what was driving well I thought Trump was a disgusting human being and you know Biden was a decent guy turns out he's in the pocket of the progressives which I have a very negative view of see I want my whole life is directed towards giving the young people today the opportunity to live the American dream I start with nothing these surveys say I'm worth a few billion dollars I don't know I own this house I have no airplanes I have no fancy cars I drive a Hyundai and uh I discovered many years ago there's only four things you can do in money number one you can spend it on yourself okay buy homes cars sports teams which is the new rage art uh everything here is all very inexpensive art it's decorative art that I like I'm not an art collector I'm not into sports so when I was working my income well exceeded my needs and uh I'm married 59 years to the same woman we have totally different political Phil philosophies she watches MSNBC and CNN all day long and I don't watch that you know you shouldn't watch too much MSNBC I don't watch hardly any TV you can tell her you know gota stay when you called me as a favor to interview me I didn't even know who you were that's did a little bit of research and you're more of a centus which is a good thing we need some centrists in charge we don't need you know we have two political parties that are very radical we have a radical right on the Republican side and the radical left on the Democratic side so uh I became someone activist we're losing track of the things I well one of the things I'll to redirect you you know in court we call that you know redirection you were saying that you did did vote for Biden to stop Trump that Trump was not up to the job but then you're saying seeing Biden in office you think that he's been pulled what pulled left by progressives yes exactly so tell me about that and his economic ideas are not particularly good so what concerns you when you look at him now economic go ahead he attacks wealth I don't understand the argument for attacking wealthy people how do you get wealthy you have a product or service the world needs they reward you for it and I judge people more by what they do with their wealth not that they have wealth know my favorite story I I have a hug high regard for uh Ken Langer and Bernie Marcus Bernie lives in this community so I know him quite well and I know Ken langone quite well so uh Bernie is fired by Sandy sigaloff Ming the merciless the day is not important he calls up Ken literally in tears emotionally saying look I have three kids a big mortgage have no money in the bank I got a problem and Lang go and says to him what the hell you you you're emotional about I'll raise your money you open up your Superstore he got 40 families to put up $50,000 each $2 million the market cap of Home Depot today is $300 billion they have 3,000 employees that are millionaires as a result the stock and Ken and Bernie have given away billions of dollars of Charity yeah what's wrong with that picture that's America and I sent a letter to uh President Obama many years ago 10 years ago it's it's available on the internet I read it and I said you depreciating the American dream what America is all about you're telling the 99% they're being screwed by the 1% tell the 99% with hard work and luck they become part of the 1% so let's drill down on this because sometimes people hear about billionaires they don't always hear from you depending on what what they watch and what they're paying attention let me ask it like this are you talking about the rhetoric the the culture the way we're thinking about these issues or are you talking specifically about tax policy because you had that clash with Obama you're telling me this about Biden but during Republican presidencies as you well know the up the highest tax rate has been much higher than it is today right you go back you had enormous deductions back then okay okay but let me show you let me let me address I will let you address it but I just want to make sure we put this here we're in the mid mid upper 30s for the highest bracket you can go back it was 70s a different example I want to give you as well for your response you have other Western countries uh Western Europe today over 50% highest bracket France uh this is a great question and I'm going to give you with my answer standing answer I believe in the progressive income tax structure I believe rich people should pay more than poor people what we have to do as a nation is coales around the question what should the maximum tax rate be on wealthy people so if you ask Bernie Sanders he says 90% he's not a socialist he's a communist he says 90% okay Li waren I think would say 70% plus the wealth tax wealth tax is complete BS okay it's not worked in most countries that was in we'll get to we because I'm going to have a little warrant for you to listen to as well but finish your point here about is it the tax policy or is it the the culture the RH finish the third person is Paul Krugman New York Times he says 64% okay uh the guy I like quoting who doesn't give a number though I'm sure if I asked him he'd give a number is Thomas soell the black conservative Economist he says in this era of social justice what is your fair share of what someone else has worked for now I say I'm willing to work six months for the government six months for myself implies a marginal tax rate of 50% I pay a lot of taxes I don't be grudged at okay trouble is if you live in New York California Connecticut New York uh New Jersey between state and local income taxes and fed Federal you're already well past 50% we're running a substantial deficit the answer is not raising taxes on wealthy people that's part of it get rid of the loopholes get rid of 531 we can roll forward and definitely capital gains in real estate you know get rid of carried interest yeah well carried interest as you know it only it benefits some of just these certain 10 years ago on TV I said get rid of carried interest and that that well you agree with Biden on that yeah but but when you look at the history that the country and the economy did pretty well with a much higher bracket doesn't that prove that you can do both that you could have a higher upper bracket and have a good Eon what you have to have a question of what's socially correct I asked Warren Buffett this question I don't think he object to me maybe his answer would change now eight years ago he was getting a lot of publicity about rich people paying more in taxes I called him up said Warren what do you have in mind said if you make a million dollars a year 35% if you make $5 million have 40% well guess what we're way past that you're saying when you count it together yeah yeah you mentioned Warren let's listen to Elizabeth Warren if it's above 50 million your 50 millionth and first dollar you got to pitch in two cents two cents for every dollar above that you hit a billion dollars in assets you got to pitch in a few pennies more it says if you've got a fortune above $50 million you you pay on it and if your fortune is below $50 million you don't good for you either way I mean I think most people would rather be rich and pay two cents I know you dis age with her on this but would you concede her point that most people would rather trade places and be willing to pay off the The Pennies on the dollar a wealth tax will lead to our natural actions it'll lead people to be buying gold and other kind of things they can high their wealth just get rid of the L Loop Pooles raise the marginal tax rate I I'm fine with that as I said I'm willing to work six months for the government six months myself Biden lies to his teeth when he says rich people don't pay taxes what he's doing he's taking unrealized capital gains say that income the last time I checked we had an income tax not a wealth tax that's true I mean financially that's certainly true um when you look at your money which is the another thing I want to talk to you about uh it's how you live which is more frugally than many people in your bracket I was beginning to talk about that before yeah I said let me let me finish please uh and your philanthropy uh and your and and the type of Charity you do including the ideas you have so this is a a group of things I want to ask you about but the first question comes out of the taxes and I think it's very interesting when I when I was studying your life a lot of people in your position are not giving away and donating what you're doing you Buffett said here's this pledge you said it should be even more to give away and there's this is documented so you're doing more than most but you still agree with a lot of the people in this bracket about taxes which we just discussed and so my first question for you is if you're so against taxes being too high and going back to the government why do you still want to take that money and give it away because a government I sure you would agree does a lot of good things for people and it does a lot for the public what's the difference between the government and you work I work for my money and I want to have the right to give it away okay I was beginning to say before there's only four things you could do with money the first you can spend it on yourself uh I don't have expensive habits there's nothing I want I'm very fortunate I can go into a store and buy anything I want the reality is I don't want anything I got what I need okay uh I'm not an accumulator of art I'm not an accumulator of material possessions I'm married 59 years the same women we have very different political philosophies very different very similar views of the world that basically uh material possessions brings with them aggravation as well as enjoyment and I'm a less as more kind of person but just I'm going to press you on this a little bit some of your great contributions uh a New Jersey Hospital college scholarships in New York uh skilled nursing program food banks I think it's fair to respectfully observe this overlaps with some of what the government does no yeah but I'm doing it yeah so is that the big difference it's that you're directing it well I think it comes a social issue um you know what is fair you know you want to take 70 80% of what somebody works for in the way of taxes I don't think it's fair yeah okay when you say fair you mean equitable it's just not a just plan even if they would keep working that hard you just don't think it's a good idea the government has to size themselves so I said you know you can raise the taxes on the wealthy people take all the money from the wealthy and still not cover the deficit y we have a spending problem we don't have a tax problem the tax problem can be dealt with we we have a procrastinating government they're not willing to make the difficult decisions you know just recently I saw mansion and uh Mitt Romney I regard both of them favorably on TV talking about their you know plan to tackle the deficit it's exactly what was proposed many years ago by Simpson BS except the size of the debt is twice what it was when it was Simpson BS and everybody agreed the Simpson bows made sense but the government did nothing about it so we H we have to get our spending under control and uh yeah so when you look at the the donations you are making buff said half you said you're doing more than half right um what is the goal of what you want these donations this charity to to hopefully achieve well we have a mission statement in our foundation and it's basically uh directed towards improving the uh lifestyle people so we give to healthcare a lot and it's an evening up the odds for the kids in the in the uh inner cities so thing that I'm you know you mentioned St Barnabas I gave them $125 million and they voluntarily changed the name they dropped the saint for Jew they dropped St barab it's now called cman B Mr Livingston New Jersey I gave 25 million to ha Burker Regional the thing I'm most proud of is I gave $50 million to send a thousand kids to college in Newark New Jersey these are Splendid youngsters that don't have a shot yeah so you you look at this as evening up the odds thinking about your family history and what it means to come here with nothing and try to at least have a shot yeah I never finished I said there were four things you could do with money first suspending yourself well I never let people finish no I'm kidding I'm not an accumulator second thing you do with money give it to your children sure but if you have a lot of money giving all your money your kids a mistake you should deprive them self achievement yeah and the third thing you can do with money give it to the government but only a fool gives the government money you don't have to you pay your taxes as a citizen and the fourth thing you do with money is recycle back in society and try to make the world a better place so we've our assets are dedicated to Inner City kids improving the odds we impr we support a lot of organizations we give a lot of money every year for many years to Robin Hood who does the best job in innoc City Poverty of anybody I've recognized we gave a lot of money to create this college Scholars Program um and then we give a lot of money to hospitals and other organizations to your fellow wealthy accomplished and billionaires who aren't wait who are not giving not only let's just say and again my job is ask the questions you answer all you want they're not doing Buffett level they're not doing cooperman level they're not doing a third they're not doing a tenth many of them aren't doing 5% back out you talked about that what do you say to them I don't know uh when I said to waren Buffett you referenced that yeah when I met with him I said the giving pledge is a uh notable idea it makes sense if asking for ask is not asking for enough okay and I said it's not original in 9 1900 Andrew King said he who dies Rich dies disgraced but do you think these other billionaires then are making a mistake if they're not trying to at least go down that road I don't try to tell people what to do with their money okay you know it's not my job it's their money they work for it they're entitled the government should have a rational uh tax program and my view is I'm prepared to live with a 50% marginal tax rate all in federal and state all I hear that well that's higher than for many places high and believe me if you get there you still won't cover the deficit all right so let's turn to Columbia University uh you've been a big supporter but you just recently announced you're pulling uh your donations as I think the degree of anti-Semitism in the country is scary on one you competive networks I don't know if I can say the same you can say anything here okay I said that the young kids today have for brains in the college campuses and let me elaborate on that number one when they chant from the river to the sea free Palestine they're advocating for this destruction of Israel think about it Israel is the only reliable Ally we have in the Middle East Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East Israel basically took the money they got he did constructive things the money that went to Palestinians was captured by Hamas they built Tunnels for destructive purposes okay if you're a Palestinian Arab living in Israel you could vote they're happy so you P so you pulled your money from Colombia to what end what is the goal well uh the goal is to get them to fight anti-Semitism on the campus for example I told this to the president of Columbia yesterday the first comment should have been we'd fire the goddamn Hamas the professor who wrote the pro Hamas thing but we can't because he has tenure we can't fire him for other technical reasons but we repudiate everything he said what is their argument now to you are they saying hey we're going to course correct they see a problem or not a problem yeah they they recognize it's a problem kids on the campus feel insecure I get emails from kids every day that they feel insecure let me ask it this way because of your life there are many types of bias and hatred in the world we know this there are times where different ones come and go uh rise and fall um the anti-Semitism you refer to and the appropri and hate against the Jewish people around the world is long running and well documented sometimes it may fade or sometimes in New York or Florida depending on where you are people perceive it as really maybe a problem of the past um do you think that's mistaken it sounds like you do and why do you think it Roars back at certain times well just look at what's going on and whether it's the fault of the internet uh or whatever I can't I can't tell you but basically uh the reality is these kids feel very insecure on campuses and there's a lot of you know SWAT stickers going on walls and crap like that I didn't run into that you know I didn't have any anti-Semitism when I was growing up and I didn't think about it maybe if there was I wasn't conscious of it I lived in a meritocracy I joined Goldman as a junior analyst are you surprised then to see things be getting this bad getting worse now or doesn't surprise you because you know this surprises me because what's there beef with Israel if you study the record the reality is Israel has done some great things there you know Jews are 2/10 of 1% of the global population 210 of 1% I think there are 15 million Jews worldwide half of which live in Israel and another big chunk live in the United States of America there are very few Jews something I do with people in the summit this Summit Series if you're willing is we call it a lightning round so I I give you things and you do it in a word or a sentence with you I'm going to start like this I made my first Million by buying stocks that went up I made my first billion by buying stocks that went up the best way to invest a small amount of money is know what you own and don't speculate if you're lucky or hardworking enough to have a large amount of money the best way to invest that is know what you own yeah you know or find the money manager that is trustworthy that knows what he's doing the thing about money that most people don't understand is it's designed to buy you a better lifestyle and if you have excess funds help people that don't have enough redistribute I keep active in working because I love what I do and I do what I love it comes natural my favorite hobby is working now these are names Warren Buffett know brilliant investor good role model very rational person Mike Bloomberg the same I have a world of respect for Mike he used to call me up when I was the partner in charge of research at Goldman begging for me to put his research on their uh put our research on his terminal Goldman wouldn't do it because 20% of blumberg was owned by maril Lynch oh they were very xenophobic but he built that business on his own and he's a great philanthropist I'm a registered independent when he declared for presidency I switched to the Democratic party to vote for him he allowed Elizabeth Warren to eat him up on the debate he flamed out and I switched back to Independent current Goldman CEO David Solomon capable good fire good guy with a lot of energy I don't know how he could be a dish jockey at 3 in the morning and run Goldman Sachs but he's a good guy you think he should DJ less I can't begin to tell him what to do with his time all I say is that he's being lying now I live through three or four 10% cutbacks when I was at Goldman Sachs it's a way of nature trimming the tree you overexpanded you have to contract he's doing what has to be done because Goldman is only a place that works if they're profitable the partners want to make money and want to get a return their investment so he's doing what has to be done and everything I know about him was positive uh Jeff Bezos don't know enough about other than he's extremely capable you know you don't build his kind net worth by accident you build it because you have a better mouse trap when I had dinner in the in the white house with President Trump he asked me twice the same question do I think Amazon's a monopoly he asked me the same question a minute later because he didn't like my answer I said no Mr President I could buy the internet in any retail in the country but they've developed veled a better mous trap they have quick delivery competitive prices they store your credit card information in America if you have a better mous trap you deserve to win there were reports he doesn't like he doesn't like Bezos because of the Washington Post right the exactly the reports were that he wanted to abuse government power to go after Amazon to punish Bezos because the Washington Post reported true things about Trump yeah I think that you got to say Bezos and guy like Elon Musk or you know mday Michael D'Angelos Donald Trump stick in the private sector gu a government you do the country a big favor you're too damn divisive Joe Biden move on you know in France they have riots because they want to reduce the retirement age from 65 to 62 he's 80 and he looks as 80 I'm 80 81 and uh he should step aside you're calling on him to step aside yes even though you said you don't usually tell people what to do I think he should step in see I have it's probably a wishful thinking I don't think Trump or Biden will be the candidates in 2024 because neither one are preferred by their party that's true yeah it's a very interesting bind that America seems to be Bernie Sanders uh was pushed aside by the Democratic party because they knew if he got the nomination it would destroy the party every election that Trump has supported I think has gone to the other side we've lost control over the Senate as a result of his actions and I think he should step aside br Obama a good person but I I hold him accountable for a lot of the problems today he's the only you think about this he's the only president that villainized wealth you know Bush W bush two didn't Bill Clinton did not we leave out Trump Ronald Reagan of course did not what about FDR uh I wasn't and that def I know he basically was anti-semitic he W he was although that was quite common unfortunately but but I you know I wasn't there either but I read that he said if the bankers hate him he welcomes their enmity as his highest point of Pride I don't know we all got to get together we all got to get along I don't mind paying more in taxes I would like the money to be intelligently spent best advice you've gotten I've learned through examples of people you know Bear Sterns very very generous firm John Whitehead John Weinberg very generous people John Weber you know you just you have you have SEO you have common sense you have intuition you do it's right so the advice is follow your intuition follow your intuition and hopefully you have the right intuition what's the best advice you've given the only way to be successful in life is to do what you love and love what you do and live your life as an open book I'll tell you anything you want to know when they start saying you're great that's when you have have to yeah I'm not great you know you just if you do it's right that's all Yeah final three failure means not achieving your objectives success means achieving your objectives and uh I say in my case my kids still come home and visit that is my big biggest success and finally reaching the summit means um I sound like a broken record reaching your objectives and living a life you're proud of so if you said to me Lee what would you have done differently if you knew what where things turned out I would say I lived the life I wanted to live the only thing I would have done differently I'd like to have gone through light 50 pounds lighter now with mura and the other C1 ac1 drugs you could do that yeah uh Leon cooperman thanks for joining us thanks for having me and all the best
