Jack Ruby’s Court Assigned Shrink Was an MKUltra Doc

the Joe Rogan experience it's the stories crazy yeah it's crazy and I think it's also a really important part of human history imagine if the whistleblower had not come forward and we didn't know about MKULTRA and and all those documents didn't get but they didn't find the warehouse for the document just imagine oh yeah we never would have lost like I don't say nobody in the program has ever come out and and talked about it I mean I went to a couple of guys who are still alive wouldn't talk to me of course I mean they always fall back you know we signed an oath with the agency right if we talk to you without permission and they're not gonna give us permission we could go to prison just imagine what life must have been like for them knowing that this is what they were doing to people oh yeah so that's such a strange way to it also these people are agents for the federal government I mean what kind of precedent does this establish well most of the people doing the research were subcontracted researchers at the prison you know medical personnel at prisons and in the case of jolly West he was first in the Air Force and then he was in university settings and jolly was you know once he got to University of Oklahoma he was experimenting on patients and in one of his letters to Godley asking for more funding he's saying working with psychiatric patients actually benefits us because people can't I'm not quoting directly here but he's he was making the argument that their weird behavior wouldn't be noticed by anybody and the hospitals because their psychiatric patients so these people are getting LSD which is a pretty powerful drug and other drugs he was using and he was hypnotizing them in some of many of his experiments without without their knowledge and their psychiatric patients I mean it's worse than Nazis your mind is you know the next most important thing besides your soul and they're tampering with it you know one of Charlie's colleagues the guy who actually took over the department when jolly in 69 came out to UCLA from Oklahoma said to me because I again I would do this with people I would show them all the documents and he said he always says Wes was one of his best friends he'd known of her I think 45 years when Wes died in 99 he said but he said to me Charlie it doesn't surprise me that he would have done this this is the Jack Ruby's stuff which I guess you haven't gotten to yet Charlie was Jack Ruby's psychiatrist oh Jesus it's a hole that makes sense too right yeah jack well actually I won't spoil this remote of Jack Ruby on all I did yeah yeah well you're gonna get to about 30 or 40 pages on Jack Ruby and jolly West I'll just I don't want to spoil it for you or for the listeners if they haven't read the book yet but jolly West inserted himself into the Ruby case after Ruby was convicted of shooting and killing Oswald in the spring of 64 before he was going to testify to the Warren Commission he had never told he had never testified at his trial about why he killed Oswald his defense argument was that he had epilepsy and he had had an epileptic fit and shot him and was amnesiac of the of the the shooting holy [ __ ] yeah so that fits right into the narrative like a key well this gets better so Wes inserts and pull that microphone out towards your face I'm sorry that's all right so what yeah so West and surf's himself into the case gets a sign through his connections to Ruby's new lawyer you Bert Winston Smith who was a whole other kettle of fish but anyway goes to the Dallas County Jail in I think was April of 64 to examine Ruby in preparation for not the Warren Commission testimony which he was giving in a couple months before his next trial because he had gotten a nude or an appeal for a psychiatric review and West who had told Sidney Gottlieb in in these early letters from the 50s that part of his experiments were inducing insanity and a person without they're aware this West goes to examine Ruby emerges from the county jail and there's press waiting for him and he announces that within the preceding 48 hours ruby had had a psychotic break that was irrevocable poll it couldn't he couldn't return to sanity he had audio and visual hallucinations during the exam he said Ruby hid under a table because he thought there were people in the room trying to kill him told West he could hear children's screams outside his jail cell as Jewish children as they were boiled alive and Wes said he's completely insane that was the day I mean there was no evidence of Ruby being mentally ill prior to West's exam Wes was along with him in the cell and then treated him for about six months when Ruby finally gave his testimony the Warren Commission so Earl Warren Chief Justice Warren who was head of the Commission flew down to Dallas with Joel Ford who was in Congress and on the Commission in Arlen Specter the young royal inspector who was an investigator for the Warren Commission who eventually came up with the Magic Bullet theory he called it the Magic Bullet conclusion anyway the three of them you know put ruby under oath and ruby Babel was incoherent grabbed Arlen Specter who was like him Jewish and he said don't you know they're killing Jews and I and they've killed my brother and cut off his legs I hear them being tortured outside my so they couldn't use anything last that was one of his objectives in his MKULTRA research was to make people induce insanity without a person's awareness was there any contact with Jack Ruby before he killed that Walt again that was one of the things I can't tell you how hard you know oh you mean blast Laura you mean Weston will be anyone anyone that could have done something to get out yeah to kill Ruby no Ruby to kill me to kill Ruby yeah Ruby had a lot of connections to organized crime and federal he was part of which later emerged of the anti-castro Cuban effort to overthrow Fidel Castro which was run it was Operation Mongoose by the CIA it was an illegal assassination program Ruby deny being in and that's in the book I found out that again through West papers that I got access to Ruby admitted never that he stalked and killed Oswald on the orders of anyone but that he was working with these people who were suspected of being involved in the assassination if there was a conspiracy and he had never admitted that to anyone it's only in West file and Wes withheld that so let's break that down so for people that don't know the the primary theory of who was responsible if there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy and one of the thoughts was that it had to do with some sort of CIA operation to overthrow Castro yeah well there was so the Warren Commission concluded that Oswald acted alone there was no conspiracy Allen Dulles the Dulles the former head of the CIA who was fired by John F Kennedy was second-in-command to judge Warren and the Commission Richard Helms who was actually jolly West's employer for MKULTRA was the liaison between the CIA and the Commission so Helms knew that Ruby who they call their most important witness in their investigation the Warren Commission investigation because he was the one who silenced the killer there could be no trial for Oswalt because he was dead so they tried to learn everything they could about Ruby to see if he had had any meetings with Oswald prior or he had connections beyond the superficial ones to organized crime was there something deeper the Commission which I believe was you know a joke from the beginning it was set to determine I mean they said in the beginning their objective was to prove that Oswald acted alone they came up with that conclusion but after the first intelligence Senate Intelligence hearings in this in the early 70s that exposed MKULTRA chaos COINTELPRO primarily the Frank church hearings they found out that Dulles and Helms and others had lied about the CIA's involvement with Oswald and with their own agents who had had these peripheral we don't know if they were periphery or not but definitely encounters with Oswald they withheld all that so the House voted to have what they call the House Select Committee on assassinations that began in 77 in 78 they released their report which they concluded there was a probable conspiracy to kill Kennedy that Oswald didn't act alone and you know it's there's lots of books about that yeah and in their findings and then later the to the head of the committee uh Robert Blakely wrote a book where he said that that Ruby had acted on behalf of the conspiracy to silence Oswald that he had stalked him premeditated the murder and that the whole thing was part of keeping the secret so was West a part of that you know again I can't prove it I wanted to find out if West it had any encounter or any you know interaction with Ruby prior to Ruby committing the murder couldn't find that and that's the kind of thing that maybe there's no evidence maybe it happened but there's no evidence but I wasn't going to put it in the book and I exhausted every resource I had you know because that that one has always been so puzzling for me because here's this guy that's not connected to the murder allegedly and then steps forward and shoots Oswald in front of everybody yeah sentencing himself I mean like there was no doubt about it you're the guy who did it everyone saw it you're gonna go to jail forever why would you do that well the first report which was fabricated by his first lawyer who admitted this years and years later he told Ruby to say he did it to spare Jackie Kennedy from having to come to Dallas for a trial of Oswald yeah that was made up made no sense and then Melvin belli was assigned to the case was i mean Ruby fired like three lawyers in the first couple weeks then no Milton Bell I took over and took it to trial and his argument was that he had had an epileptic fit and didn't know what he was doing and when he was grabbed by the cops after he shot Oswald he said hey I'm Jack Ruby what am I doing here what are you doing to me don't you know who I am cuz he knew all the cops my argument in my book is it's important my most important finding is that a CIA contracted agent or researcher for mind control became the most important witness to the Warren Commission he became that witness's doctor right before he testified and told his story ago that should have been disclosed obviously to the Commission but they're not going to say it because it's a secret program right and then he goes crazy and then he goes crazy I got told by a couple of people who were nobody on the Commission would talk to me that was alive when I started pursuing them old Ford wouldn't talk to me Arlen Specter I think I mentioned that to you before there's an interesting I approached Arlen Specter who was running for re-election this was 2002 and told him I had new information and he had all he had always maintained you know he he made a lot of money off of his books about justice and hittin the magic you know defending his magic bully bullet theory he always said if anybody comes to me with new evidence I'll look at it with an open mind so I had sent him a persuasive letter while his people they finally said all right if you have these documents showing that this doctor who treated ruby you know and within the 24 hours he lost his mind spectra will look at them and then decide if he'll talk to you fax him to us and at that point that was 2002 I'd lost the magazine's story and I didn't have a book deal so I wasn't operating entirely on my own I said I can't send this stuff to you because it's my smoking gun the letters between gottlieben and Wes describing all the experiments so finally Spector agreed to talk to me on the phone for a few minutes and it was amazing he called me from the Senate floor while they were waiting to vote on whether or not they were going to invade Iraq this was 2002 oh sure so we were only supposed to talk for a few minutes and when I explained what I had and what it showed West had you know been involved with at the time he treated Ruby he said well if you're not gonna send the stuff to me I don't know you know I need to see it and I go well I can't send it to you and he said we want to meet me because I told him I was in Philadelphia visiting my folks and he was from Philadelphia too he says I'm there in the weekend I'll meet you Saturday I have a squash game at the Wyndham Hotel meet me there Christ squash so we had a meeting set up for like three days later and this is something I'm always second-guessing about I made a decision I don't think I got to I don't think I've ever really got paranoid doing this but Specter had been a long-term senator he was running for re-election and it was the first time in his career but the polls were against him that his opponent was they were predicting that he was going to Spector was going to lose he had also you know defended this Magic Bullet theory forever I mean more people knew him for the Kennedy assassination than anything else I thought so if I do meet with him and I shown these documents maybe it was grandiose and me too I thought he's gonna go my god I need to be part of their you know exposure because if he didn't and walked away from it I thought they were important enough that he would know that that would you know once they were publicized and he had the opportunity to say hey we need to look into this and didn't he would look past and then I thought well maybe he's gonna two things he's either gonna use it for to get publicity have a press conference and help him in his reelection or he's gonna use it to be the hero of it and run with it before I published a book and then I'll just be a footnote you know to all this because he took it so I cancelled the meeting the morning of I called up his press secretary and his cellphone like the three phones I had for him I said you have to tell senator Specter I am so sorry but there's an emergency I've got to go back to Los Angeles I actually was scheduled to go the day after on Sunday so was a lie and I didn't talk to anyone I just left the message and I said I'm so sorry but I obviously I've worked so hard to get this meaning it's embarrassing but I have to go back so I left my parents place to go to the post office cuz I had been there for three months I was actually writing the first version of the proposal at their place to get away from my friends and you know all the distractions in LA and I was only going for like 15 minutes I go mama that press secretary calls I told them I was leaving so tell him that I just went to the airport and I and I apologize I can't lie to a press secretary I'm I got to so I go to the post office and I come home 15 minutes later and she's like as white as a ghost I go what she goes senator Specter called me in the press secretary just know he called himself he wanted to know what happened why you changed your mind and why you were canceling and I had to lie Don I don't lie I go but I lied to the senator you know he was a big deal in Pennsylvania back then and so I don't know if that was a mistake on my part I think you know 20/20 hindsight I should have done it and taken my chances I did what he would have done I know that's a very powerful man and if he thought that he was in danger yeah I could have [ __ ] driven off a cliff I never I mean I really didn't try to think like that through all those years I thought like that to Arlen Specter I mean do you know how deep that guy had to be in on that to come up with that whack I imagine without theory so bad the fact that that actually gets debated and the fact that never gets brought up that there were more bullet fragments in Connolly's body than there were missing from that bullet yeah and the fact that anyone who knows anything about guns right any anyone who's ever shot a gun has seen what a bullet with a bullet shatters bone and what it looks like would look at that [ __ ] bullet and think that bullet went through two human beings right right and the fact that the reason why they had to make up this theory in the first place was because a guy was hit by a ricochet on the underpass yeah I know the whole story behind that well here's what I did I tried not to lose myself any more than I had to in each compartmentalised area I was going into so with the Kennedy assassination I just did a superficial cause like Manson I was never interested in any thing so-called conspiracies yeah I never cared about Kennedy or the John F Kennedy assassination but once I found out that West was connected to Ruby and again that was a moment that I was like oh no I mean first it was West in the CIA and then I'm like and Ruby how can I not look at the Kennedy assassination so I kept my focus narrowly just on Ruby Oswald West Spectre I looked a little bit of the Magic Bullet and agree with you but I never did a deep dive and a lot of that stuff [Applause]

Channel: JRE Clips

Views: 1,336,638

Keywords: Joe Rogan, JRE, Joe Rogan Experience, JRE Clips, PowerfulJRE, Joe Rogan Fan Page, Joe Rogan Podcast, podcast, MMA, Joe Rogan MMA Show, UFC, comedy, comedian, stand up, funny, clip, favorite, best of

Id: uiYBOboAcAo

Length: 19min 4sec (1144 seconds)

Published: Thu Apr 16 2020