IT Round Table Livestream feat. @IBRACORP, @Awesome Open Source & @Scotti-BYTE

absolutely so scott you've got the sky-bite channel and you've posted several things you know that kind of cross over some of the topics that i've covered in the past i want you to give a little introduction about yourself there okay now this is scott i run the scouter by channel i'm a retired uh computer systems architect worked about 36 years in the industry and during my career i designed hosting systems for server storage and networks and worldwide data centers and i did a lot of deployment of virtualization containerization and software as a service to meet customer requirements for application hosting and the reason i started doing the youtube channel was to try to give back a little bit about the last five years i've been doing some consulting for a small office home office implementations security enhancement technology modernization i kind of emphasized the concept of data center in a box interesting note back in about 2007 uh is when i left windows i was a desktop daily driver and the reason was is i was running windows vista in 2007 and it ended up resulting in a major major data loss and that's when i started with ubuntu 7.04 at the desktop so um interestingly my desktop i upgraded ever since and of course i moved to different uh different hardware different machines and different disk drives and so on and i moved my image from spinning drives to ssds and eventually over to nvme and i converted the disk structure at one point in time from mbr fat over to efi guide and also converted from ext3 to ext4 so i'm really proud of the fact that essentially i have an operating system that i installed back in 2007 and i've modified it ever since try that with windows right exactly that's a fair effort chris uh why don't you yeah that is for sure chris won't you give us an intro as well my wife's telling me over and over by the way that my stream is freezing and buffering and freezing and buffering so that's awesome but uh i do apologize um i am going to uh put a link over to the ibracorp stream here in just a minute if it doesn't kind of resolve itself but we'll see have you noticed much of anything yet scott uh your video has cut out over here but uh my strength great freezing okay other than that we're we're fine just it's okay just continue chris go ahead and do an intro to yourself as well i'm gonna just fix my stream here well okay i'm chris i'm i'm german i'm local located in germany um born american started my business my self-employment 28 years ago uh first was classic i.t support for customers then got into business with large international companies for which i plan to deploy the i.t for the subsidiaries in several countries i was visiting company countries like saudi arabia egypt emirates in qatar algeria and stuff and of course also in the us actually networking i started off in the novell environment was a novel specialist up to four point x actually beginning with five which was java based uh partly uh the customers moved to the ma to microsoft environments so today sorry to say so but um i'm working in microsoft environments for my for my customers um also starting having pretty large migration um projects uh moving from on-prem to the azure cloud and stuff like that that's very sad news chris very sad news indeed um i can see over here in the chat it looks like people are losing the audio and the video a little bit um why don't you i stopped yeah i stopped it uh sorry and it's coming back up so give it just just a little bit of time should come back up here in just a second sorry chris no sorry no problem yeah mate so microsoft uh that's an interesting transition for our customers then i'm not finished yet okay of course i i would be wrong here in this in this open source environment but and at the same time a couple of years ago i started with open source with my with in my own environment uh first privately i used um then i founded in 2016 i found a charity organization and all these uh all the ips now based on open source so what i'm using part of my my desktop which is still windows but um mostly i also have some some linux based desktops on laptops but um my own id is exclusively open source uh which means i have my own i'm running my mail server i'm running my own jitsi meat server i have um uh rocket chat and so the the goal is actually and i'm offering this also to some uh smaller customers to have these uh the cloud as a service more or less um don't forget in germany gt gdpr is is a common problem which means you have to make sure that your data is stored actually inside of europe and of course if i offer these open source cloud services on my own on-prem uh hardware or virtual machines whatever you want to call it you'd be compliant with that i'm complying with that and so i have some lawyers or or medical environments which are running in my environment and that's all open source and i speak i see the benefit of open source every day i use it but again uh large companies are running here in germany uh mostly are really uh almost exclusively microsoft services and that's why what i have to do to earn my daily uh pay yeah so you know it's yes i love that but it's true right the the thing you have to remember is this at the end of the day we all have to make a living um so you know you work where the money is and right now that's microsoft and that's the way it's been for 30 40 years right so um i don't think that's going to change tomorrow but i hope channels like mine and like ibra corp and like scottabytes and and people coming on and talking like you are chris i hope that helps people who are looking to move to open source and kind of realizing well i know microsoft's the big guy in the crowd but at the same time there's there's options out there that's that's my goal so i love to hear that you're giving those options to some of your clients even even though microsoft still kind of runs the world from from a lot of aspects absolutely yeah that's amazing another thing we've noticed i think is that now in the last couple of years we're starting to notice a lot more software as a service as chris mentioned and more software as a service basically means we don't have desktop applications we have applications hosted in the cloud and just remember the cloud just means this runs on someone else's computer so if if you have applications running in the cloud it basically means your desktop operating system at that point the applications have become operating system agnostic and i realize it's going to be a few years before all the applications be agnostic but basically at the windows desktop if you go around to companies and you ask them what is it you're running what is it that's proprietary and i guess i'm i'm being a little bit of a straight man here because that's a topic that we're going to move into that brian set up for us here today absolutely let's uh that's some good point of views and i think that's something we are trying to actively promote in our communities and people like chris who may not be necessarily doing the content but they're part of that community as well and we all sort of share the same value of how good open source is and where we sort of want to see it go so i'm looking forward to this today and i'm happy that we're here and we can have a chat about it absolutely yeah but i'm excited you guys wanted to do this with me for sure so i i just want to say thank you for one i know chris it's like 2 30 in the morning or something where you're at um a lot of you guys i know around the world it's it's super late or super early so i appreciate you joining us and then some of us are saturday some of it's a sunday but um i i really wanted to do this so so thanks guys for joining me on it definitely no i think it's a great opportunity that you provide this for us so thanks to you too um but you got one one really really hard point um since all these services are really cloud-based um you can really interchange whatever client you're using uh so when when i'm in my own environment in my open source environment server-based environment i can use any client i can use if somebody really shows up with with a mac well sorry i don't like these uh this environment but um they can just use all the services at the same moment as they use a linux machine or a windows machine it doesn't make any difference they don't need to install any uh additional software or whatever because it's either they need a browser or they get a little app which is which is available for any platform on on on this on this world so that makes it so much easier and if you're stuck in an environment like with microsoft um you you're stuck with microsoft tools and you get what you want what what they want you to have it's not that you have a variety of choice i can i can use any kind of of tool which gives me a lot of more specs or not what what what i want to choose from and that's something which is which is an open source um feature and and the people and the one side say well i don't know what to use on the other side um they have the choice which they can cope with actually they can't handle the choice that that is given by open source environments yeah for sure for sure i think uh it puts a lot of people off uh coming from proprietary software usually they are well developed because of the amount of funding and resources that they have at their at their fingertips so naturally people find it a lot easier to pick up and go but the more we can promote people to use this open source stuff i think we can only see it get better so hopefully that starts to change people's attitudes start to change as well yeah i'll give you i'll give you an example just shortly um i think we better start off with the first topic first and maybe we'll get around to okay you're doing that what do you think brian no i think that's yeah that's great but with the topics and i hope these things will come up a little bit naturally anyways but we can always come back and do some chatter afterwards for sure too so we should get you some good questions in our chat love this conversation yeah absolutely yeah if you guys need to answer questions real quick in chats go for it um i'll kind of tell my group what's going on here um so we're going to do a few rounds with with the guys that are here in in the in the online stuff going on right now for the stream and basically we've got three rounds and maybe a bonus round we'll kind of watch time because i don't wanna i don't wanna keep everybody up so late that they can't uh like they don't get to sleep before their next day but um our first round is really gonna be you know tell me about your daily driver open source software and why that's your choice over something proprietary that's also out there you know so i think really from a personal use professional use i'd like options for both of those things if you have daily drivers that use an open source if you don't have one for professional use just because of the you know the way your job is then you know bring up that you don't have one for that i think second round we're going to do something similar but in this case we're going to say basically and tell me if i'm getting too far from the mic i apologize um you know do the same thing but for a proprietary piece of software that your daily driver for something and and why you're using that over an open source alternative today um you know because it's it's interesting to hear and then third round is is really you know something you'd like to see with a good open source option but something you haven't really found what you felt is a good observer option yet or that you don't know of any open source options for it and then kind of the bonus round if we get to do it your top five things that somebody should know before they get into self-hosting any kind of software open source closed source proprietary doesn't matter if you can self-host it i'd love to know your your kind of top five things that you think those people should get into so that sounds good to you guys i'd like to i'd like to jump into those and we'll just kind of hit it one by one um if you guys don't mind i'll i'll take the last spot on this first round and then we'll kind of shift two starts each round if that's cool go for it right absolutely all right so i'm going to take the last spot on this one scott you want to start off with round one and then we'll move to chris and the hebrew and then we'll kind of juggle it around for each round okay that sounds good so in my daily driver software for open source i tend to have kind of two number ones and my first number one would be that i self-host bit warden because with all the web-based software there can usually be all kinds of authentication out there there's hundreds of websites that i end up connecting to at this point some of them are mine some of them are public websites they all have usernames they all have passwords and if you're smart they all have 2fa authentication and so bitwarden handles all the web-based authentication for that and so it really is kind of the gold standard for me to be able to uh cache all those passwords and it's very very safe and the way it handles everything my second kind of number one is apache guacamole and the reason for that is because apache guacamole does for server instances what bit warden does for website instances it's basically used to provide a portal to all of the locally hosted server instances usernames passwords and ssh keys for all of your self-hosted or even cloud-hosted services that you have and so um those two to me are both number one and they're critical to doing any self-hosting uh next would be joplin server and also joplin clients so joplin server is um there's several different ways to replicate the data that's in joplin if you don't know what joplin is joplin is a open source note-taking program and it's critical to document all the things that you do in your home lab or if you have some consulting customers same thing is true and there's so many notes that are required for the care and feeding of your infrastructure and then kind of as a side joke there hey you might want to document this stuff because you don't know who you're going to leave this mess behind for that might want to figure it out later on um and then going on i would say wire guard access for my network remotely i actually have two wire guard servers and one is for my main network and i run it in a vm and it provides access to my main network and my actually four other or five other vlans and then i also have a dedicated wire guard portal for my lab net vlan which is my testing vlan that i'll get people into when i'm trying to show them how to do things a lot of times or if they want a server to log into and try something out and uh in line with using the wire guard um or not using the wire guard actually uh remotely is very important to me so if you haven't looked at remotely uh remotely is a way to support remote customers and friends to guide them through fixes to network and system problems where you can remote control their systems or they can remote control one of your systems and so often what i'll do is i'll get in a self-hosted jitsie meet and i'll use it in conjunction with remotely and it works out really well when i'm having a a session with somebody so then other than that we have the generalized tools things like nginx proxy manager for reverse proxy and service management you know to access the health's self-hosted services it's a portal that kind of protects things and yet provides access and then obviously i have a discourse server a couple of php bulletin board servers my web my uh website's based on web press i've got a rocket chat server like brian does i run plex jelly fins sync thing and i go on and on i've just got all kinds of good stuff so that's where i stand and uh you'd consider that all your daily drivers scott those are those are the really daily drivers i mean there's hardly a day that i won't get into all of those programs and use them uh repeatedly i think that's a prerequisite of becoming a self-hoster brian if we can add that to the description um we have to be absolutely addicts because we can't get enough stuff that we want to install and play with well that's it yeah but it's a big thing right really bad guys i mean you know it's a serious problem man serious problem i'm a part of it i mean it's an addiction guys i mean look this this you know this is how bad it can get right yeah yeah so you know that's those are all the things that i've got uh uh hosted inside my network right now the rabbit holes some of which i've talked about if you watch my videos you see my dashboard at least once on each video i'm sure and you can see that it grows every time that i that i do another video and it's because i the videos that i make almost all the software that i show you guys i end up using it for something now there's some things that i make a video and i think it's great but it's not something i have a use for for any particular reason at a time but some of them i've gone back and added later just because it made so much sense so yeah i totally understand all right chris what do you got for us just preparing my my heimdall um well most mostly is based on the next cloud services which is um of course um file syncing but i use this also to synchronize all my my contacts and all my um calendar entries and stuff like that and inside of the next cloud you also have the possibility to use um um only office which means you can click on on a document and you can online edit it as you have in a word online or whatever the same with excellent all the office environments which which is very nice fine i'm using my own mail server hosting my own mail server based on daf card um a lot of um things like ad guard is there by the way my password manager is also included inside of the next cloud which is also a nice thing to do and to have um i'm running my own um bookmark server so i synchronize my bookmarks also so these are always on hand i took to to anonymize my my browsing history i'm using an own own based on cloud sorry a google instance so actually i search over google and this takes all the information from google without any tracking information and also without any ads so i get the the the mail server i can use an email client i also have round cube and um actually i'm not using round cube mostly um let's have a look yeah the wrong cube i'm using and to show you also what i'm using maybe i can share also my screen and that's what i'm holding oh yeah yeah nice uh which is uh on heimdall which is uh also available for for everybody and you can see i have an auditorium with czech mk which is um nagios based um i have my own jitsi meat server i'm not using jitsi meat from of jitsi from gts itself eight and eight i think they they're called i use mesh central instead of remotely scott i love mesh central which is very nice you see some of the ideas i got from you brian so i have my my navi drone because i don't i don't have any videos which i want to watch i just listen to music those that's fine um i'm running a couple of instances of next cloud some of them for my from my business uh the nginx proxy manager also of course for all the ssl certificates and all of this is mostly um secured by ophelia so i have mfa activated um yeah um uptime humor very nice uh things to see what's up and what what is working um backup is with your back your backup and um i'm using although ul's for um shortening my urls um i'm running a separate so that's a lot of stuff just just please tell me on navidrome you've got scorpion somewhere on there right sure okay great as a german i was hoping so you know i was got a little worried for a second but yeah that's awesome i've been to a couple of cast concerts from them okay nice that is awesome i thought because they're still they're still going online but they're so old so you can really see that there's nothing behind it anymore we all get older man we all get older what's going on what are you going to do i don't want to get off topic so yeah that's my daily driver that's awesome that's awesome all right ebay corporate is it you are up i'm ready i'm ready i'm ready to hear this all right all right well look i i think if we were going to add up everything that i've installed i don't think we have enough time in the day gentlemen but i'll pick a couple that and we'll see what you guys think whether you're running them as well my one of my daily drivers at this point in time is ghost i use that for our website but that's soon to change we will be changing that soon but that's served me well and i think it's been a great open source product um i think what they offered was something different to something like wordpress which you know sure it was free and open source but i honestly didn't find it that useful i found it bloated 90 of the time but ghost was always very nice and clean so it's really well developed i have to say the next probably thing is the suite of media automation tools and i know we've done a video before brian with sonar radar you know all that sort of stuff those products and those apps have really made my life so much easier and definitely projects worth you know going to support um even if it's pulling stuff off your old vhs tapes or whatever it case might be you know having those sort of media tools has been fantastic i know scott was mentioning plex and jellyfin i would say jellyfin as well been a fantastic application i'll be honest i don't see it on the same level of plex yet i do have some playback issues yeah and you know it really depends on the client and it's just not the same but i'm hoping the more we can support it hopefully one day it will be uh the other thing is i think you mentioned a couple of examples for work environments i know rufus is a perfect example of something we use quite often making your usb isos and things like that another one is probably i'd say wireguard however why guard for me in the sense of unread did have some issues at this at the beginning some people love it they swear by it i've tried it many times and i just kept having issues so then i ended up switching to something called tail scale i will say i don't think it's open source i don't think telstra's open source i have to check myself on that but it runs telescoping of itself is it but it runs wire guards runs wireguard correct yeah so the um the technology of wire guard is the part that that i would say definitely a daily driver and a really really handy tool actually to have and uh finally i would say according that's something i've just looked at recently is uh to try and manage a bit of our finances so it's an accounting application and that's uh free and open source i think they have a paid option as well or like a pro cloud hosted option but i think it's a pretty good tool as is that's awesome yeah and those are probably not top ones at the moment you know i saw it counting a while back and or i i don't know how you say it honestly but i saw and i was like you know i want to do that one it's interesting i've had people ask me about you know things for managing money in the past and and finance and things so i probably need to tackle that and there's a couple of others out there too that look interesting i've never had a specific one requested that i wrote maybe i did i have to go back and look i try to keep notes for everything that everybody requests and it just you know it ends up being this massive list that i have in chaplain notes actually but yeah accounting looks really interesting so i'm glad you said that because it's it's one that i want to look at too yeah i got so many things on my list it's just not funny and it's sometimes hard for me to like filter through and go okay i've got to pick one in focus but um yeah there's just so much great stuff out there all right i'm i'm gonna do the same i'm gonna pick a couple um that i really you know every single day i'm in it um because some of those things like sonar lidar you know they're great but they really kind of run themselves i don't have to do much they just they just do their thing and generally thin the same way right me and my wife use jellyfin at night to watch like our tv series that we like um but really um yeah other than that i i don't have to mess with those so i wouldn't call them daily drivers they're there for me every day but they're not things i have to get in and do stuff with for the most part so um for the ones that i use as actual like everyday tools that i'm in all the time proxmox for sure and then lately especially um proxmox is is one that i'm in a lot um and then uh pf sense lately has been one because not for myself actually but for for a a local place that i'm doing some some work for that i'm setting them up with a new server with proxmox on it and psense for their network and a bunch of updated network stuff and they're in their offices and things um but but yeah i've been in those quite a bit lately but proxmox for me personally is definitely my my daily driver type software um and then dashie i've been using a lot lately since i did that video i've really gotten into dashi and it's got just tons of stuff on it that i use and then i would say probably partainer yeah yeah dash is dashie's awesome and then portainer is is one that i'm in every single day if not just to check things uh but you know i run i have watchtower that tells me hey there's updates for these things and then i go in and kind of check stuff and then i'll run the updates um some of my let it update automatically because i'm kind of like if it gets messed up it's no big deal i can do it but some of them kind of like this is a finicky setup that i did on purpose so i'm a little bit more cautious about when i when i let it update but pertainer i probably use every single day and i'll say to me that is a top-notch piece of open source software that i just cannot brag about enough like i mean seriously i was somebody who's gonna be running a business yeah that that needed docker or kubernetes or any of those kind of things to run like the first thing i would do is run the pertainer and say i need a license um or i need licenses for my people because we want to use this tool to administer all these things that we have to do it is a it is a seriously great tool and there's other ones out there i know that but um yeah definitely portainer i like it and i use it on pretty much everything that's why i have that script you know the other one is that script that i made the the little uh donkey dokie docker and docker compose uh npm uh and uh the pertainer or pertainer agent yeah documents ryan i'm gonna get you converted over to mosaic and get you on lex d containers here so i i you know i saw that i went and looked at it it does look really nice and i have one lxc container that i'm running now and i run pie hole in it i moved it off of a raspberry pi because i needed that pie for something else and i did the the wait time to get a new raspberry pie was ridiculous so i said all right i'm going to move pie hole into an lxc container um and so so i did that and i got it to run great and it was perfect which is awesome uh so so i've got one up and running sky you're getting me there little by little i just have to wrap my head around things you know a little bit but uh yeah it's a mosaic's gonna if i get more and more lxc containers yeah mosaic's gonna come into play because at some point i'm gonna want a nice gui for that too but those are mine those are definitely my my daily open source drivers and i use those compared to proprietary options not because proprietary options cost money because i donate money to a lot of these open source projects that i use a lot um because i want them to continue but i do it because i love the concept of open source and i love the concept that i can go and clone a repository and i can dig through the code and i can make changes if i want to and see what happens and i've done that with pertainer just on the front end to kind of see if i could change up the front end ui a little bit for for things that i would kind of like to see in it yeah um i don't keep those changes but you know i love that that i can do it right it's there for me to do if i want to um i love the velocity at which i get updates from most open source projects that are still pretty active yeah um you know things like this last week right log log for shell and stuff like that came out and it just you know destroys a massive portion of the enterprise community when something like that hits and the truth around a lot of enterprise software um you know and i'm not just generalizing it there's some that can move really fast and do things really quickly which is awesome but a lot of enterprise software does not move fast it's like not it's not like trying to turn around an aircraft carrier it's like trying to turn around a fleet of aircraft carriers inside of a bay okay it is not it is a precision maneuver to do something like that and it takes time and it takes effort so um the velocity at which open source projects move to me is just incredible and 99 of the time and you wonder like these guys usually sometimes you might have a team of maybe three people running like that thing on the app so for them to turn around so quick it's it's really really cool to see yeah absolutely what are we looking at here scott that's the definition of the utilization of lex d containers that's my lexi containers on one of my nodes that's awesome yeah no i that lex i'm getting there i'm getting there you know but doc docker's still just docker makes it so easy to do stuff um setting up that pie hole wasn't hard but it definitely was harder than if i had done it with docker but i thought you know what this is a great opportunity for me to do it for an lxc or lxd container and it uh it does great it runs no problems haven't had any issues with it so all right i'm gonna i'm gonna bring it around around to here um and get my notes back up so round two is kind of the same thing we just did for round one but it's proprietary software um so uh chris i'm gonna let you start this one off for us and we'll kind of make the rounds and we'll end with scott there well the reason why to use propriety software is because there's no really a good um alternative or option in the open source environment um and basically i'm using microsoft office because yeah i have to change my my files with my customers and they're using microsoft office products pretty sweetie dolma you stole one of mine [Laughter] and that's actually the only reason and the only thing where i really use propriety software um the the second part is actually the banking software which i'm using because also there's no really a good alternative which is um which does um support all of the the different banks and different kinds of of getting the data from them and then using the the banking and online banking services um which is a german product here it's called star star office i think known as stuff star office about star banking or something um but that these are the only two prior priority propriety software things i really need to use um mainly on an also daily basis that's that's all what i'm using there and of course i said by mostly i'm using windows desktops because maybe scott will disagree but i think windows 10 is a really solid operating system it's um reliable and um you got used to the the the gui that's something which of course microsoft is based on is it's a success so you you you get used to it for for decades and and changing then over to the linux distro and then of course you have the the big problem to find the right one uh which would suit you fine i mentioned mx linux before i i'm using it on on one of my laptops and i'm i'm i'm i think it's just a great environment because you can even as a as a windows user you can use it as a like the windows desktop and at the same time it's debian based so you have all the the the basis of debian which is a stable environment so i like mx linux very much and then i i made i made uh i made the fun and and and created a windows like environment in mx linux and i showed it to windows users and they couldn't find the difference they couldn't tell me oh linux so they thought it's it's it's like windows 10 and um yeah that's nice to have um but i like uh on linux desktops that you you're so much you have so much more power at your hand to um to administrate your your environment uh let alone the shell is so much more powerful if you know how to use it um and yeah i do a lot of in in powershell and powershell scripts in my business but powershell is is not as is powerful and not as good and not as solid and not as logically as what you have with with the normal bash shell which if you know one uh command and how the arguments are used this is consistent over everything what else what you what you install and that's so completely different in the microsoft environment so microsoft has it's it's it's positive things in the gui itself but on the command line uh linux is is unbeaten yeah that's that's more or less my information about that no that's good it's good information and i've seen a few people in the comments too say say the same thing about office actually so i've got a i've got a couple of questions but i want i want evil corp to go first and then then i'll ask because one thing i would like to add um i i ran libre office or open office at the beginning of my business so i just wanted to to save the license fees i worked inside of the business and with my employees and everything absolutely fine but the issues with with um exchanging uh files with with customers which are microsoft based is still there and an issue and i saw one of the comments and which is i completely agree with is the open source environment uh the community needs a better and i don't think that libreoffice is bad but it's still not there where microsoft is with with its automatic uh interchangeable things which which libreoffice still lacks in in some parts yeah gosh that was good all right hebrew corp i'm ready all right mate all right here we go so round two round two what do we got proprietary software if i was gonna pick one if this was gonna go back to the first question i was a daily driver uh termius an application called termius has been absolutely phenomenal especially with working through ssh on so many different servers at the moment it's just been fantastic man i can't i'll admit it's a bit expensive even by my standards because in australian dollars it ends up even more but it's worth it man i was swapping between computer laptop phone all this stuff and i could basically work on ssh anywhere and it was a breeze it would sync my settings across multiple devices and really made it easier for me to work so i haven't found i haven't really looked that hard but i haven't found anything open source that's done that for me and uh it was shown to me by um one of our admins hawks he was a big user of and he got us all onto it and i don't think i can go back i think it's just um yeah have a look at tabby tabby okay it does give that a sauce so and and i was gonna say and i don't know if this is absolutely correct but um so i'm gonna call out another channel that i love to watch and somebody hit me on it today on my chat uh my rocket chat server but um it's the digital life and uh his name is christian and i believe he's german um he does some really great stuff he does some great topics yeah definitely just very german english yeah but yeah yeah he's german yeah yeah um he he does he does some ads for a company that does what i think maybe similar to what you're talking about i'm trying to remember the name of the of the software off the top my head i'll look it up here in a minute while you're still going but it gives you shell access and a lot of things like that and it's it's all through the web browser so i think it you know reconfigures itself to your to your device and stuff i don't know if that's what termius does but it sounds kind of like what he's using it for um basically which is to get you know shell access to all of his different servers and stuff yeah yeah definitely oh just on the subject i've had someone uh mention it in our chat there uh showmill said what about adobe acrobat uh proprietary and no other alternate for most pdfs available from government or companies online that's pretty interesting because i know when dealing with lawyers or things like that when i bought my house for example there was they give you those pre-filled pdfs that you know have validations in them and and document control so have you guys seen any alternative that would work as well as a adobe pdf or acrobat i should say i don't i mean i guess because i've never used acrobat for making pdfs i i don't know what all it's got in it to be honest i'm sure it's a power user kind of thing it's by adobe and i think they were the kind of the guys who said here's pdf but um i know that like with a mac i can turn anything to into a pdf uh with linux i can turn anything to a pdf i think with windows now you can turn anything into a pdf now when you need people to sign on certain lines and have digital signatures and stuff like that there may be some advantages you know with like adobe but i don't like on on the mac on anything you send me i can apply a digital signature through one of their built-in tools that you just get with it so um yeah i mean like i said i just don't know what with full acrobat i think acrobat reader is what i always had to use right so with full acrobat there may be all kinds of cool stuff you can do that i just don't know about but if yeah if there's somebody who's used it that's that's smarter than me about it then i had to believe that it's probably yeah not a person out there yeah yeah i'm using foxed reader yeah uh in the free version and i i use uh the the the the feature of of stamps so for example i can i scanned my my signature and i can use it and stamp it on on a pdf or i use my normal stamp for my business and have it also in digitized and then i can stamp pdfs online without printing them out and put a stamp on it and stuff um and uh yeah i'm i'm also looking for an alternative in on linux based yeah that's also something which is which is really uh which i really need to be honest what's my favorite point yeah i agree well that's a fair point awesome what about you scott ah works better if i take the mute off okay so um i just want to start out by saying that uh when we started talking about proprietary software my cat fell asleep and started snoring over here so i don't know why but okay cats can snow what this one does this is this is a 13 year old cat he's like 20 something pounds so yeah he snores i have 10 cats and yeah they can snore so i think in the proprietary software realm um my biggest nit has always been turbo tax so for years and years i've always run turbo tax to do my taxes at home and there's really no equivalent in the linux world and everything that i've ever seen for tax preparation in linux has really fallen short and yeah i know there's web-based tax preparation but it's just not the same as running as running something like turbo tax the other one is i've got three logitech harmony hubs over here and reprogramming them often requires using windows and there really is even though it's kind of a web-based tool there's this program it goes through in order to do its stuff and there's really no reasonable substitute and then final internet explorer yeah i think i think what it is is fundamentally it requires internet explorer out there in the background somehow you know you never know um and i don't know what the deal is but uh uh and and i swear by the logitech harmony hubs i i realize that's going away now which i think that's insane that they're doing that because there really isn't a product to replace it you know everything else is a poor substitute uh and then finally um well i have a garmin bicycle computer and uh it occasionally requires windows to do some of the things like add some of the add-ons and sometimes doing firmware upgrades and uh you know when when vendors come out with stuff they're always giving you you buy some off-the-shelf piece of hardware and it's frustrating when it has to fall back and absolutely require either windows or mac when when nowadays since everything is essentially software as a service why are we worrying about proprietary programs why isn't everything web-based in order to accomplish it and that being said i i i saw a frustrating thing a while back i usually um i use a uh i'm trying to remember the garage door opener you know real common garage door opener out there and and their software um it's the um the chamberlain uh software that they've got online and recently what they did was they basically got rid of their website and they went to their mobile app and there's there's nothing i find more frustrating than to have to pick up an android phone or an apple phone yeah and and then when they retire their web-based interface i mean we're really talking about trying to be more transparent in how these programs run and so i see it as being proprietary not only when i require a particular operating system but also when i require a particular device that i have to use don't retrofit me into you know it's like it's like i'm also quite a bit into home automation over here and one of the things i find really frustrating is when people want to remote control everything with their phone well give me a break if i want to turn a light on in a room and i have to pick up a phone find an app and navigate in the app to turn the light on why didn't i just get up and throw the switch you know so so voice voice control is very important and i think that as time goes on we're going to find more and more types of things that are gesture related and we're going to find more things that are um uh related to knowing where you are in your space uh to be able to control things absolutely like yeah i can imagine you walking up to the front door of your house the camera recognizes your face you make a special gesture with your hand which authenticates who you are or something like that and the door opens up i don't think that's too far-fetched from what you're saying unfortunately some of the gestures you use they just lock the door permanently and never let you in it depends what gesture you're using mate how many fingers are putting up all right yeah right so um you know anyway there's not a lot of proprietary software here and and the one thing the key thing about this this particular question is to keep in mind that we're very much into software as a service now and so there are so many things out there that have become really uh ubiquitous with our daily lives that are in fact web-based so being proprietary should mean less and less over time and it shouldn't really matter what we've got i've got my own theories i honestly believe that windows within the next five years is going to have a linux kernel there's too much development going on with things like wsl 2 that really point in the in the direction of microsoft trying to more or less divorce themselves of their proprietary windows kernel because they're not making money off of it anymore companies like microsoft and google and oracle they're making money from software as a service that they sell in fact microsoft's two biggest things right now would have to be uh office 365 and windows 365. so if they could get out of this desktop business they would immediately i mean if you guys already seen windows 11 i'm running it as my main driver now and honestly when i first started that up it just started to feel like linux the way they're going in terms of design so even what yeah yeah sorry are you happy you switched over to windows 11 yeah look i haven't experienced any problems or anything so far um knock on wood but i've heard that some people have experienced a fair few bugs so far it's been good to me but one thing i don't like and one thing i don't seem to understand with every iteration of windows is that they're making it harder and harder to find administration tools and settings i mean we had the control panel which was very intuitive very easy to use you could navigate it fairly fairly quickly now you almost have to go through three different types of settings interfaces just to get to the old control panel because that's the only place that has the setting you're looking for so i'm not quite sure what they were thinking when they went through that process but hopefully they've just cut back a little bit on the on that um hiding menus and options i don't know no i i you can see um they they are trying to reduce the control panel which from which from one iteration to the next uh what i see um they want to get rid of the control panel uh completely um and and it got reduced from from time to time even more so i don't think they're gonna go back to the control panel they're gonna i agree i agree and i think that's one of the things that's probably gonna keep pushing me towards a linux environment because if it's gonna be that difficult to find options that someone like us would be looking for it's kind of just to face the purpose it's not making it any easier for me it might be easier for others but it's not making it easier for me yeah with the control panel you got to the point and now you always use the search button yeah right correct 110 yeah yeah which can't be the aim yeah that's that's wrong like i feel like they put all that research and development into the search because when you search for something it'll actually be pretty good and find something even if it's a setting within a setting it'll it'll know what you're looking for which is interesting i mean but they could have just left control panel as it is 95. what about you brian i think you were next up mate you know uh proprietary software is this one took me a little while actually when i thought of the question i was like okay what am i gonna say um i don't particularly have any proprietary software right now that i use in my personal life um as a daily driver now i do have a mac and so i did come up with it so when i have my camera on which i i turned it off because my stream keeps giving me warnings um so i don't know if it's just if that helps or not but i'm gonna turn back on real quick so behind me you see this piano i've had this piano for like 15 years it's an 88 key weighted uh keyboard by m audio but you can't see it up here but there's a macbook air sitting there and it's connected to this monitor and a sound bar and the reason i have that is because it's connected to this piano controller and uh i use the garageband software so that i can play piano because it's just one of the things that i like to do and enjoy doing um i'm not a great piano player by any stretch of the imagination but i like to learn songs and play them uh just by ear and then then i sing along and i have a horrible voice so uh you'll never hear that but don't worry um but yeah i mean uh garageband i've tried open source stuff believe me i've tried our door and i donate to our door by the way somebody asked me in the chat earlier some of the things that i donate to that's another one i donate to that i didn't put in there but ardour.org gets uh gets money from me every month as well um even though i'm not using their software i donate because i know that that improves that software and it has improved a lot even since i first used it but i've tried several different ones that i can use through linux especially for uh just sounds and and doing things and i write i write music and i create music i guess the better way to put it out write it anymore but i create it um so uh yeah i i i have that set up and that's probably the i wouldn't say it's my daily driver because i don't get to use it every day but garageband is probably one of the most proprietary pieces of software that i use but one of the things that i really really like about it that our door is getting close it's not there yet but it is super close but i go into the garage band system and i say i want more sounds and it just downloads all of the i mean i don't know how many gigs of sounds it is but it downloads all of their sound files which are really good um i can use a lot of the sample libraries that are out there from like spitfire and a lot of the other companies that make some really amazing samples and stuff and then creating tracks and putting tracks together and mastering tracks in garageband is super easy i don't use like logic pro or anything like that but um it is really for me very easy and and in the in our door it's a little bit more of a clunky process still to me and more that is just what i'm used to is the workflow i guess but but like i said arduino is getting really close to kind of having that same simplicity in their workflow so that's definitely my proprietary thing yeah i mean for my work like my regular job where i work for a company that makes enterprise level software um i use lots of proprietary stuff because that's what they tell me to use so um i use word and i use outlook and i use the slack and i use you know all of those things and then those you know definitely are my daily things during the weekdays but something else if it was up to me right yeah i wouldn't choose to use those things and where they give me leeway i don't use the proprietary tools that they that they offer uh but yeah a lot of them you don't have any choice right it's just security issues you know that they worry about from the i.t side and they say no you have to use what we say and here's our approved list right so so i get that so i use the things that they asked me to use totally but uh but yeah i mean yeah it took me a while to come up with something just in my personal life that was uh proprietary and i sat down the other day about three or four days after i sent that first email to you wanted to play and i looked at it and i was like oh duh here's one that i use that's proprietary so yeah um yeah spot on yeah so yeah let's see i'm gonna turn the camera back off hopefully it'll keep my stream a little bit better um uh ryan all right that was that was just round two and we're like an hour in brian um i'm i'm seeing that we have a nice discussion going on about uh scott's uh comment that he expects that microsoft will change its kernel to linux oh yeah i think that's a nice topic because i also have some thoughts about that um i'm yeah i'm happy to hear what you guys think about these things i you know like i said i love the hit all the topics and talk about those things but if that's hot in the in the chat right now then like you know let's let's go through it for a minute if if that's okay ibra corp and uh scott if you guys have a little time that's fine if we don't get to all the rounds we can always come back and do another one later yeah no worries mate right um all right but my opinion i i totally agree with with scott um yeah i disagree with one point five five years um i i think microsoft also i also think that microsoft doesn't make any earn any money on windows anymore the enterprises may may have some microsoft enterprise licenses going out and which includes windows licenses that's maybe your part a remote desktop licenses and stuff like that but um they really they they have a big problem at the moment on the one side they were definitely only intel based or amd based whatever you want to call it um and now arm is getting on the market and they're they're having so much issues to get the windows on arm or running and it doesn't make sense for me it doesn't make sense for them if to to develop for intel and for on whatever comes in the future uh risk five or whatever um if the linux community does this already for them we have a linux which is more or less hardware independent yeah so um of course it would be the easiest and the best way for windows to really switch over to the next kernel and i d i also agree that i see some some signs that they're they're pointing that way but i don't think that it is possible for them and even sorry to interrupt myself but even their cloud services are sometimes uh in parts of it are based on on linux servers uh that's interesting to to know but on on the other hand um i don't think it's an it's an easy step and it's not a step which which is is foreseen in maybe five years i see it in the future uh i agree no it's your part to comment on that ibrake you have thoughts on that um look i work in i work in it as well i work in an education sector and i think i agree with with you guys on that i don't see it changing too soon but as windows is obviously trying to change their tactics i think to capture a different market um they will they will change they will adapt because i think their previous model and i think chris mentioned this before this previous model of it's a user-friendly user interface based approach you know we just make it look nice and easy it's going to turn a lot of people off because people that even that if you've just been using windows your whole life things you are familiar with they're changing the whole concept around so it might prompt other people to start looking into other options which is um which is good hopefully you get more of those linux distros that make it easier to approach we've got a cat on screen now so i said this in my last live stream actually after i i think it was not too long after microsoft showed windows 11 maybe maybe that was the live stream before this i don't know but um you know i said that just looking at windows 11 and i looked at pop os and i've looked at a couple of others that were having some updates coming out and they all looked almost like the exact same desktop um the exact same experience that you know everything that you saw in them was was so similar i mean it was just the slightest little tweaks and and changes and i agree i i don't think it makes sense for microsoft to to keep going so i don't feel like we're on different pages now i don't i don't know if i could say five years i'd be i'd be impressed if they had switched it in five years i think the issue that microsoft's gonna run across is the enterprise and and like right now i know there's enterprise companies out there that are running cobol based software that are running vb6 based software and those things don't run on linux today um you know if they do somebody did some amazing engineering and they should be selling their services but you know okay this is this is that thing where you can't just get people to to switch right these enterprises are on these things because they don't want to switch they're they're stuck and microsoft keeps going a historical point of view sorry i'll give you an example um even ibm is switching from their own os 390 to linux um more and more um i'm just in a project where we're changing from from uh uh from our oracle database from ibm db2 and it'll be running on a luxe zuzer linux environment which means exactly what what sap is currently supporting so the switch on enterprise is also getting to the point that they're using linux as as a server yeah i just had a just had a community member comment on the video saying azure's most used cloud os is linux which i haven't checked it but if that's the case yeah i mean that's already a great yeah great point to be at so when here's one chris in uh in the past couple of months i heard the news story about the german government uh moving all of the uh government desktops over to linux can you comment on that i can give you a big big thing about that just um we've got work tomorrow right chris yeah um well it's here at the moment um in the morning uh yeah bavaria or munich itself made the decision to switch over to linux they called it minux like munich linux and uh it was yeah they stuck a lot of effort and also money into this in this project and they i don't know if they were just stupid or not really uh greatly organized but um they didn't really get to the point um because every change you do every migration you do you have to take the the the users with you and this is something i think in the it's is mostly uh forgetting forgotten um you you think about how you change from one technology to the other and and have the same data there and stuff like that but if you don't inform the the users uh at the beginning and take them with you on this travel um they won't like it they don't like any change they won't like it if they change from windows whatever version to to linux desktop even if it's even easier to use for them for the daily work if you don't take them with you in any way fact is um microsoft and uh the the lobby from microsoft um more or less made the offer to have the headquarter of microsoft in in munich but they more or less told them they will stop the headquarter and move it somewhere else if they if they continue with this linux project at the same time we had also a change in the government of munich and they got back and now they're running uh in a pure windows environment again so um then we have an european you have a european uh project called galax which uh is supposed to transmit um of europe uh to get more independent of of uh great players like china and the united states um caught with the focus of cloud services like office 365 um so they they tried they're putting billions of euros into uh into this project uh francis here germany is [Music] guys am i coming through clearly on your end [Music] i do want to get back to the topics real quick to finish the round table and then we can come back to some discussions if that's okay with you guys um let's see here so this third one um so round three basically uh we'll start with zebra corp on this one in fact um so i'd like to i'd like to hear something you'd like to see a good open source alternative for um that you don't feel like there's a good solution for it today or you haven't found a good solution for it today uh okay so didn't we cover that one or am i missing something well that was kind of round two with oh sorry terry only no you're right yeah it's up to you yeah i mean if you want to go the same answer that's complete no no yeah okay well uh as i was saying to chris earlier he stole one of my my topic answers so thanks chris but um that's all right mate one of them was microsoft office so that is he made a very good point about that honestly i've used i've tried to i've tried to use you know the google equivalent i've tried to use open source equivalence and they just don't feel the same they just don't feel the same i go to use them they're not they don't feel as powerful and they don't feel as compatible and unfortunately in most of our work environments i'm sure you guys might familiarize with this but they're still using those uh applications so then you have to worry about conversion and file formats and things like that which can be a bit tricky um especially with the google ones i find that even microsoft office files going up into google they don't present the same um excel is a perfect example couldn't run formulas and things like that that we had programmed in our spreadsheet for competition winners so i had to actually load it in microsoft excel and the other thing is google drive i've tried next cloud and i just can't stand it quite frankly i found it so slow i found it very slow very bulky for what it was uh in comparison of course i'm only only when i'm comparing something like google drive right so so when you run next cloud are you running it are you using their instance are you running it yourself and are you running like in docker or how are you doing that uh i haven't used a hosted instance of it i've always tried to self-host it we're currently working on getting the perfect next cloud install happening so that's one of our videos that we're working on at the moment but even that in our testing and our development phase we're having a lot of hiccups along the way because we want to make it work for people who may not have used it before so i think a lot of people can relate to how unfriendly it can be if you don't know what you're doing you can find a trip along the way and then you're kind of stuck there for a while so you end up having to reach out for resources whereas you don't have that problem with google drive it's pretty straightforward yeah no i totally understand that um i find when i when i run next cloud and docker it just it drags and i don't know if that's a docker thing or if that's the way that i'm setting it up somehow or something like that but if i run it on native hardware it seems to be very performant so so i don't know if it's resources that i'm not giving it in docker or something like that that's why i was asking that question yeah something like um at something like cryptpad uh i haven't no yeah so for for things that i use as file portals that are self-hosted uh i use um i don't try to remember i use uh you transfer dot io which i self-host uh i kind of like it it has a little bit different function uh cryptpad is more of a little bit more interactive and then uh well i've even been known to use uh lest i say it pawn drop well i i'm hosting next star on on on its own dedicated vm it's not in in a darker container and um if i save something on on one client mostly in a minute later i can i can have it also on the second client so it's it's almost immediately there it's integrated well in in the windows explorer because you can just choose whatever or folder you want and everything which is in that folder will be synchronized and it's the same i see the same as onedrive or google drive i don't see any any difference there um it may have some issues if you have really um if you if you fill it up so if you have a drive with with 500 gig of data and then you make a first thing that may take some some time yeah but although other than that from the daily uh working i have people who are not id affiliates just users mostly ipad users and stuff they use next cloud just to to synchronize their data with with our my charity organization and they don't see any have any problems uh whatsoever so i don't i don't i really cannot see the the problems you you're facing uh sorry to disagree but no not at all mate each to their own that's just been my experience with it um yeah like i say that could be you know just again based on how you've experienced the other software right i mean the same thing right when i talk about the music software that i talked earlier i mean it's all about what are you used to and then what are you getting into and how does it feel right i mean if i'd gone the other direction i might have hated garageband who knows so i think it it often comes out of that but i saw a lot of people say that you know office was definitely an issue and and next cloud may be kind of another thing where you're like okay i need a solution but this isn't working for me i think there's other options out there and it depends on what you're trying to accomplish with those with those solutions too if you're trying to do like online office stuff i don't know i mean i i feel like collabora can run on its own right and it can be an online thing i think only office can also run online without next cloud but you don't get the syncing you know kind of stuff between machines and stuff like that so i just know that with the environment that i work in professionally with the department of education they use google tenants and you know google for education and things like that which is basically mandated at this point because every school uses ipads in google classroom but i'm not sure about in your countries if google's managed to invade your country yet but over here it's pretty standard and i can assure you that teachers that i have to work with they already struggle with something like google drive sometimes so going from my experience and if i was to show them next clear they would never use it i just wouldn't use it but that could also be a cultural thing so no i think it makes sense when you have to do things that fit your users it's definitely it's change management is hard for one thing with any user but you know that that can make a difference for sure but i mean hey that's uh that's why we're here we're here to have these discussions so it's great absolutely any other ones there he record uh no no no nothing from me mate um okay yeah i'm sure there's plenty but you know [Laughter] yeah there's probably a lot chris you you got something specifically that that you you wish there was something as an open source solution but you just haven't found it or you don't like the ones that are there they just don't feel right yet um yeah i think i i always also already mentioned um foxhead reader or something similar like that yeah um other than that um yeah i don't expect that that the banking or software uh world will change but that's something that um if you go to any in at least in germany if you go to a bank and and they will even offer you some some online banking software and it's it'll be always windows-based yeah so if that would be something equivalent um even if you pay for it it doesn't mean really need to be open source but just so you have something which is platform uh less yeah so you can use it on linux mac or whatever that would be that would be great um yeah and it's problem with the dominance of microsoft office is not that the the alternatives are not as as good i think if if everybody would be used to use libreoffice or open office from the beginning so using their macros and their programmability and and their features i think that will suit 99 of the people the problem what i really have is that if i have to exchange files from one to the other it's office files and this and then you have some features which are in a specific microsoft file like microsoft excel or sometimes i have some some calculation issues in word where i have a spreadsheet inside of a word which which does some calculations it just doesn't pop over to my liberal office so um yeah that's that's that that's the biggest issue and and i saw i think scott you you put it and in a comment um if microsoft really really works on a linux version of their own microsoft office well that i i'm i would be willing to pay for it yeah just to keep up the the exchangeability because it's the the the reality of today that the the the majority of of business people are using uh office fights microsoft office funds but these are the things i would i would wish that we overcome in in for the open source or linux community so everybody has the choice which platform he wants if he wants to use his mac or his windows what because he loves windows and of course the one problem what we have is go into a store buy a pc or even online what is pre-installed it's windows yeah that's that's i think a major problem you don't get um linux pre-installed if that would be as fine-tuned as a windows pre-installation um not talking about bloatware which is also common in the first installations um uh more people would would don't care if it's linux or windows yeah okay that's my my two cents that's good that's good all right scott okay so of course i also already talked about the turbo tax issue but i've got another one that i think is really good and that is that um i have a hard time buying into the ecosystem for apple yet i see apple's done some really great technological things okay and one thing i would like to see would be an open source version of apple facetime and i'm wondering at this point why someone has not reverse engineered that yet you know i don't really buy into the apple ecosystem but i have enough friends that use facetime in a linux spacetime would be absolutely awesome so i i love that answer actually and i'm an apple user i mean i use i use mac products my wife has mac my mom has mac just because when it's the supportability of it for my family is so much easier than windows and linux i just wouldn't dare try to to push on most of them but iphone's the same thing right i don't have to worry about one of them gets one kind of android phone one gets another kind of android phone you know third one gets another kind of android phone i don't have any idea how to find the same setting in all four of them or whatever um so so i prefer ios devices for that reason because i'm their tech guy right um but yes i i really do wish that apple would branch out a bit with with their software and make it available on other platforms you know even if it was facetime on android or facetime on windows or facetime on linux just because they do have some terrific stuff that they make and some innovative stuff that they make but they you know they they intentionally keep it for apple because they want you to buy apple product because they make their money on their hardware i mean that's where a big part of their money comes from they don't charge for the operating system haven't paid for an apple operating system you know ever that i can remember it's it's always just come with the machine and then you get the updates but um you know if you want their pro software sometimes that's a little bit expensive but you know 300 bucks for for like whatever their pro video editor is isn't that much compared to a lot of the pro video editing stuff out there so when you look at it i see why they do it to some extent but i i also don't like that they do it when i when i look at you know i wish i had those tools here you know imessage is another one i love imessage i think having it on my mac and on my phone and on my ipad is terrific but when i'm using my linux machines i want to use it on my linux machine because i want to switch over to my phone so totally see your point on that one scott and i think it's a great point yep that's uh something that's really been difficult because when you see a program in one infrastructure and it's not available in the other and even if they didn't want to develop for linux the real question is why have they not webified that app yet and a lot of people will say well there's plenty of alternatives i mean you could use zoom or you can use um uh google or some of these others right and there's so many so many alternatives but the real point is think about it apple's always had kind of a closed ecosystem and it's a shame because i think they could actually make more money and be wider appeal if they didn't feel they had to force everybody into the apple ecosystem to use any of their products i like what jason said it's a lifestyle not a brand it almost is it is it is and that's the thing about operating systems right there you know it's not what operating system is best it is what is your religion because operating systems are a religion if you sit somebody down and say why do you run windows or why do you run mac or why do you run this particular linux heck the the internet is replete with people that will swear by one linux or another linux oh yeah and all of us here on the chat clearly understand that you know why distrohop you can make any os any linux os look any way you want it to look heck you can make it look like windows you can make it look like mac os from a visual perspective and so distro hopping doesn't necessarily make sense yep yeah for sure for sure i think this joshua fellow has just commented on the video and says you know all the negative aspects aside next to awesome progress on linux distros projects like next cloud only offers own cloud play a major role bringing linux to the normal post normal person so i agree with that and it's definitely a positive thing so i don't want to cast just negativities on it um just because i personally don't like to use it i'm still happy that it's there being developed i think you guys are probably the same that's sort of stuff we really want to see keep going oh yeah i mean 100 when you when you have the the big thing that that people forget is they always say why are you branching off and making your own thing here's this project over here why don't you just go contribute to it i agree we don't need 10 000 versions of jitsi meat but it's nice to have uh different options you know next cloud has next cloud talk and i'll be honest with you if you're looking for something where you can call somebody and it will ring on their device next cloud talk does that as long as you set it up correctly and that's pretty cool for me because jitsi doesn't do that i can't call my wife on jitsi meet i have to set up a time to meet with her it's a meeting software it's meant to be scheduled meetings um i can send her a link and say open this link up and meet me right but but next cloud talk i can like literally hit her name and it it rings her phone and she can open it up and we can have a video conversation just like facetime um so i think that's kind of cool but so there's other opportunities which which makes competition right which makes people say i need to make mine better because i want people to use my thing or i want people to know that mine can be as good as that so so i think there's so much benefit to having a lot of options out there i think there's definitely times where you get too many but something fits for everybody usually which is great now go ahead chris well um i'm running next time and talk and but if i use uh if you wanna have a video meeting i use jitsi meat because it's so much easier to use and it's it's more performance even having my own jitsume not using the the available free jitsy meat uh but what you can do you can you can integrate jitsumeet into your rocket chat which means you can send somebody a call more or less and he gets a pop-up on his on his mobile phone and then you can join digital meet uh meeting too and then it's like face facetime too but it's not as easy as talk because talk really lets you have receiving a call yeah it's it's it's ringing right yeah like a positive got a new message and the message says please um join me in this meeting yeah so that's a that's a difference there but i agree that um i would i would like to i would like to really that's something i would like to have a change is first of all we have too many messenger platforms so we have yeah we have i i admit i'm i'm i'm in in face uh facebook because of my charity organization and uh they have i have a messenger there then i have whatsapp because everybody's using whatsapp at least here in germany um it's a very european thing in southeast asia they use they use what's app most of the people are you you're more more a mobile phone apple based we have more android here so so facetime and and imessage is messaging is not not this this has not this role here but everybody's using whatsapp i hate whatsapp because each time i'm i'm part of whatsapp all my contacts are blown up to whatsapp which means actually i have to get a permissions of everybody in my address book on my mobile phone that i give these personal informations up to what's app and this means i give it to facebook which is i think uh the worst thing i can do then we have hawk then we have this and we have uh this card we have this and that i would like it and then we have signal and stuff like that um i would like to have one centralized platform and this should be open source and this may also be self-hosted so i can see and i can be part of a community like i have i think matrix has something similar to that so so um this is something i would have to and i would like to have spread around to everyone so the people who buy a new phone from the store have a pre-installed matrix or rocket chat app on there and they just have to put in i'm here and they're part of the community instead of having facebook whatsapp or priority things like like apple environments this is something i really really have a vision in my future because i hate this i hate this all and all this data is shared with third-party people companies and they make money out of this data and this is something i i really really disagree with we've got to fight the system chris we got to fight the system [Laughter] and it's so easy um i i uh sorry it's my it's it's my turn or did i just hop in and take this oh well i mean you want another one after that you know i i who whoever wants to go go i'll just i'll just add a quick note like to re-edit something i said earlier about a daily driver i love discord our community loves discord they find it very easy to use i find it very easy to administer and it's fantastic it's got all the pitfalls that chris is talking about though in the fact that we don't control any of the data going in it um at the end of the day we're at their whim sort of thing but i do wish there was something as easy as that i know rocketchat's there but i don't feel like it's as as accessible or at least there's common i know that disco is very common now it's become very trendy so it's it's kind of everybody sees it everywhere with an icon on us on discord all right that's just my opinion that's the thing right there the thing that and you hit it right on the head right is is it's not just trendy but easy i hate to it's not a good word i'm trying to think of a better word but you know when you say i've already got a discord account and i'm part of this group and then somebody says oh i've got a discord channel you've got to just click on it and it takes you to that group and you're part of that group now oh i've got a discord channel you click on it take that group whereas with rocket chat there's federation and and some of that but it's not quite as easy as that right matrix or federation it's not quite as easy as that you know there's a lot of them out there that can do some really great things but they're just not quite as easy as that and and that's what makes it appealing right is is people want ease i mean as much as people as much as you hear news right complaining facebook's spying on you facebook's doing all these terrible things you know they're using your data they're they're intentionally giving you the bad news angry you know still using it sure that's it but but people are like i'm angry but i'm gonna go close about it on facebook right i mean so it it's you know it's that thing where it's if it's where people are it's hard for you to separate yourself from that if you want to have your message heard and i mean when i post my videos the first thing i go do as soon as the video is available as i go post about it on twitter i go post about it on facebook i go post about it on linkedin i go post about it on mastodon i go post about it on patreon i go post about it on my rocket chat so i mean i go make like six you know social media posts as soon as that video goes up you know to make sure that people know that it's out and ready because i you know as much as i like google youtube's terrible about notifying you about new videos yeah um yeah you have to do it to get to get the word out that you've got things available and and building up communities is hard so i want to say one thing the ibracorp channel a thousand users is that right on your discord server uh two thousand above two thousand now two thousand users on your discord server that's to me incredible okay i mean i've got you know a hundred and something on my rocket chat server but i'd say in any given day it's it's 10 to 15 people might get in there um it's probably you know four or five of us on a really regular basis that chat um so i mean you know 2 000 users is to be fair i mean that's 2 000 at a drawing it doesn't necessarily mean that there's that many that actually communicate common but um yeah i never expected to get that big we really wanted to just build a space we're trying to just make it a space it's not even about our youtube channel it's more about a place that people can go have a chat and get some help with things or offer help or just right feel welcome because i felt myself i didn't really feel welcome in a lot of those uh communities outside of ours and so i said oh well i want to i want a space that's a little bit different so people can come in with any sort of skill and knowledge and we can have a chat but at the same time it was a fine line not making it a tech support channel we didn't want to just we're not there we're all volunteers we're all going to own things that we we're good at um if you've tried something and you want some help then we welcome you and say come in you know see if we can help you out but also helped us build relationships with developers in in their communities so that you know we can link to each other and say we're planning to do a video on so-and-so you know would you like to have some input and that way we can make sure we don't misrepresent your product because we want people to find your open source app and we want them to enjoy it and we don't want to show it off wrong so i think that's something we do different uh in terms of other linux communities or other i.t communities out there so i'm glad you enjoyed it brian i would like to see you in there a bit more yeah i see it i see the notifications i get in there check them out you know i don't always chat but i do check things out and kind of look at it now and then so it's it's pretty awesome and yeah i saw that i saw that announcement and i was just like blown away by that but you know i i do like your your thought on it it's not a it's not a tech support channel but you know the rocket chat server that i run it's the same way right i want people to feel that they can jump in and have a conversation and if we can help if you're having a problem we will if i can help i will i know scott gets in there and helps a lot of people and gives lots of device which which is amazing and and uh you know just makes it makes it such a great thing to have a community you can go into and just chat or just have a conversation or ask hey have you seen this or what do you think of this and get you know honest answers and nobody's dogging on anybody it's just you know here's how i feel about it here's what i think or hey i haven't tried it you know tell me about it you learned so much from me that's that's how i learned that's it yeah like i'm learning every day i'm not the expert absolutely but if you come to me and you're trying to do something that i showed and it's not working for you i'll do my best to help you troubleshoot it my mind works in a certain way that helps me troubleshoot problems and not everybody's mind works that way yeah 100 and like that's the thing yeah people at the start had this misconception that you know you make youtube videos you must know all the answers i don't know all the answers to everything and i think i would i would be yeah that's not true to myself i if i've been corrected on something like the other day i thought i actually knew the answer on something and i was i was wrong so i said um that's good to know and i wasn't aware of that i stand corrected you know sometimes you need to do it there's always somebody out here that knows more than you know i think it's actually kind of how it is listening you got to realize that we are not the end-all answers for everything uh we have our channels uh brian's got his rocket chat i've got my rocket chat i'll get in jitsies with people to help him out on things and and i've got a good idea for the things that i do and and generally uh works pretty well matter of fact when it comes down to it um uh you know brian focuses on all this really fantastic open source software out there but uh you know when it comes to me i i tend to go a little bit more in the direction of explaining the infrastructure what are all the moving parts and how do people combine these moving parts to start self-hosting things so you know that's my attack being a little different and you'll find these these channels we've been talking about out here if you if you combine a video from each one and go across um multiple channels you'll you'll eventually get all the answers you're looking for absolutely yeah absolutely yep that's true hey i'm all excited about this this this bonus round here because i've got some good stuff do we still have time for that i'm glad yeah i'm glad you brought that up i want to do it i want to do a bonus round can we can we each cover our thing in about two minutes yeah let's do that anybody got a problem with that all right so um since i've let everybody else go first i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna go first if that's okay with you guys uh i don't think so actually i know that you mention it of course right go for it and drop it in let's do it let me let me find the right uh right side of notes because i've done loss to my maybe i do need to let somebody else go first that's terrible here we go right here all right one number one it takes time to self-host okay that is the biggest thing that i can tell anybody if you want to get into self-hosting make sure that you have the time to dedicate to not just getting the software set up but but to maintaining what you set up and making it work well or else you'll be miserable and you'll hate it but if you're willing to dedicate the time that it takes you're gonna love it and you're gonna enjoy it and and that's that's number one that's the first thing i can tell you um two don't be afraid of the cli the command line interface that that's is so important that you're at least comfortable kind of reading and trying to understand what a command means and then not being afraid to go and use it and understanding that if you mess up you can usually undo the things you mess up there's there's very few commands that you can't undo so definitely that i'd say number three is gonna be get familiar with networking um because these things that you self-host generally at least need some what i call beginner level of understanding of how your network functions and how to move things around in your network and access things across your own network um that that's gonna be really important um four follows up on that and that really is understand networking from how it comes in from outside your your network to your home because at some point you're going to be like you know i still host this stuff but i want to reach it when i'm not at home i want to be able to reach my home assistant system when i'm not at home and control my air conditioners and my lights and my gates and my you know anything else that i need to control um so so you know really kind of understand that and then five is is just don't be afraid to ask for help but learn how to ask for help because posting on a forum or on a on a reddit channel or on a chat system and just saying i need help and not being specific and saying i tried to run this thing and it didn't work yeah that doesn't give us anywhere to start and it's frustrating for the people who want to help you they want to help you i want to help you but saying you know i tried to run this thing and here are the steps that i took i followed your video and i got to hear in it and then it gives me this error if you can be something if you can just give us that much to start on a lot of times i'll be like oh i saw that error too here's how i fixed it you know sometimes i'll be like never seen that error in my life let me see if i can figure out what's going on you know those kind of things but yeah if you can if you'll be not afraid to ask for help but learn how to ask for help properly you will get all the help in the world and i promise you you'll solve problems so yeah that's my five i hope i didn't go too much over two minutes do not agree with you more mate all right so uh let's let's go let's jump to ebay corp here yeah sure man all right so here's my five pretty similar i think we might have from the similar experience but uh my first one is be prepared to learn but enjoy the results uh because sometimes you're gonna get frustrated quite frankly you get really annoyed and you especially when you you might be watching something or following somewhere and you're like i don't understand my screen looks different to this just take your time and enjoy it because that's part of learning and i find that eventually people come back and they're like you know what making that mistake was really really useful for me so be prepared to learn but enjoy the results second would be scout around and find the best option uh as we discussed earlier the open source community is very vibrant with heaps of different applications and programs and whatever uh in fact there's a there's a repository on github dedicated just for linking them all in a sort of directory that you can go through so have a look around if one doesn't suit your fancy you're not locked into it you can look around for other options um third one is set up we set up a virtual environment and test it you know test stuff if you're not too sure about it and you feel like you're not confident enough to run on your main driver then just set up a virtual machine and do it on there get to understand how it all works the next one is reach out when you're stuck like you said brian if you need help there's actually quite a few communities out there whether it's ours yours anywhere else sometimes the you know developers of a particular application have their own communities that you can go to just reach out when you're stuck but on that note just like you said don't just ask to ask and one of our moderators i've i've had to make a a bot reply for him because we have to link it that often people come in and they ask a question just to ask a question something they could have typed in google in other words instead of coming in and saying hey guys i'm having a problem with jitsi my problem is this and i've tried this and this what do you guys suggest i do next to help me figure it out that's a really important one um absolutely the last one is be open-minded to various solutions and donate towards their work if you enjoy something that you use if you enjoy something that we show off on our channels um look after the developers at the end of the day they're the people making it so go buy them a coffee buy my beer whatever the case might be it's the only way we can keep this community sorry this open source future moving forward and developing and we're big advocates of that as as are you guys hence why we're here love it that's a 100 percent agree yep great list all right chris are you still with us i don't know if i hope you didn't uh fall asleep on us man you know i'm fine no no problem there i just let's cut off the the the camera because i see so much lag on youtube so i think i just wanted to to save some some bandwidth there um well i appreciate it i'm ready for your list i'm a bit different because actually i wanted to encourage the people um i think first of all they're great tutorials like from people guys like you uh which really helped to to get over the the point to say okay i'll do my self-hosting that's the first thing and actually to be honest it's so much it's so easy that's my second point uh to set up a linux server and i totally agree uh use a vm and just scrap it if you if you get stuck and start again and there's so much help and there are so many uh video tutorials or even step-by-step guides through um putting in the the the the commands and most of the people also explain the commands so you you learn so much if you do by yourself uh and uh this third point is containerization so docker for example or um with the gui help of portina for it gives you so much um an easy um uh entry point um and and that's what you showed uh showing a lot of uh times that um set it up see what it happened what happens and um and you learn about this i i give you an example um i tried to you to set up ophelia okay and then integrate it into the nginx proxy manager and it took me literally three hours to have my first mfa running on on on one of my websites yeah and i didn't expect three hours and it was a night issue i just got stuck and and just continued and continued and saw you and there where i had my problems yeah and the satisfaction i had after these three hours was so amazing um i just thought well you know you're not a superman you can do everything because you understand why it didn't work and you understand why it's working now and this and and the next steps are so much easier so you can you can gradually come from easy stuff to more complicated stuff to really complicated stuff and that's that's something that uh if you start once um you can't stop i i think that's really something and and the third point is you you see the benefit that you are um the master of your data i think this is very very important point because i don't want to be dependent depending on on third-party server service providers mostly if if i don't want to pay for them it means they're using my data for for their business for for ads or whatever and having it on my own environment means to me the data is also kept with me i don't have anything that i couldn't share basically i but i don't want it that everybody has has has a possibility to look into it and that's what i totally disagree with and that's why i really think um self-hosting um try with small little things um set up a vpn i'm using openvpn by the way which is so easy um this uh this is something i would like to really emphasize in this in this round that's great do you mind if i add something to what you said there chris real quick go for it cool yeah just just about the orthelia part i was the same as you mate and in fact there was no guide for other until i made one and the reason was because i went through what you went through but it took me a lot longer because i had to try and read the documentation and rely on word of mouth and uh when we finally got it working i could see the benefits of it and we were like this is amazing and other people need to know about this and that's when i said to brian at the time i was just an everyday youtuber and i said we're going to start a channel um we'd be thinking about it you know and he's he's the one that actually encouraged us to make the channel so thanks to you brian encourage us to get that channel going and and authelia was the first one off the rank that i thought people needed to know about secondly that second point you made there about users uh about people just giving it a giving it a go and and asking for help and stuff man absolutely i couldn't agree with you more i just yeah it was well said yeah so i i posted in my chat but i want to point it out that at least once each one of us at this point has said that whether it's in our own way or said the words but self-hosting is addictive so so chris just said it too you know he's like that that feeling he got when he finished authelia you know like he wanted to do more that that's the feeling you get when you accomplish something and self-hosting is one of those things you just feel so good about it if you're enjoying that if you're enjoying that feeling and you're enjoying doing it you're just going to want to do more stuff and if you if you guys haven't been over to the self-hosted reddit please go over there it's reddit.com self-hosted all all together you'll see tons of people who share their dashboards just like these guys have been showing today and as people who like one guy was like i just started self-hosting three weeks ago and look at my dashboard and he's got like freaking 40 things running on a raspberry pi 4. so um yeah it's addictive okay it really is so so definitely um if you if you haven't started if you're thinking about starting if you're wondering about it if you've kind of watched my videos and thought uh i don't know or if you've checked out the ibracorp channel and thought well i want to try it but i don't know or if i don't know if the time you know seriously the time is a thing but but once you've got it i mean you're going to feel so good you're going to enjoy it i really believe that so i'm glad you said that too chris i think it i think it was important just to encourage the people um for example you set up navid rome and you you put on your own music yeah then you you put a client on your on your mobile phone then you step in your car and you continue to listen to your own music which is on your own server in your car driving around on a highway whatever and you say hey that's not i'm spotify you know i i don't pay for it but it's owned my own data and it's my own environment and it's just awesome to to to have this feeling it's a proud moment isn't it great absolutely yeah and this is only one example there's only really one example for all this yeah that's awesome all right scott i'm ready i'm ready for your five okay so i think this is um maybe a little bit different but i would say number one spend time planning your infrastructure i think a lot of people already kind of alluded to that number two use a managed network and design around vlans from the very start if you haven't discovered vlans you want might want to watch some of the things on my channel thirdly using a hosting device that can be on powered up 24x7 it can be a rack mountable server it can be a free it can be a a refurbished server it can be an old beefy desktop it can be a nas but select a device that you know you can keep powered 24x7 number four i'd say scott just to throw on that a raspberry pi 4 with a good battery backup just in case your power goes out i mean honestly yeah they're so low power and you're and you're being a straight man because number four is basically put your network and your hosting infrastructure both of them your network infrastructure meaning your router your switches and your hosting infrastructure that machine or machines behind ups power protection yeah you know you don't want um like i live in houston and houston spark and flash does exactly that several times a day and it's not really computer friendly and then and then fifth is is get a domain name and use reverse proxy and if you don't want to do that learn ipv6 and i've got a few uh presentations on ipv6 the other thing is is uh definitely go out and watch my video on replacing virtual machines with lexi lexdi containers because i think you'll find it very enlightening about what you can do and the most important thing out of all of these is you got to go visit and watch the great content on the ibra core channel on the open source is awesome channel and on the standaby channel because those are like the best of them agreed agreed thanks chris thanks appreciate it scott yeah you're great yeah guys really thank you man thank you yeah look yeah i think we're all um we're just enjoying it i think that's the most important thing i really enjoy it when we get to catch up with these conversations it's really cool man really cool uh you know i so one thank you guys so much chris especially i know it's super late there um thank you for getting on to do this this is something i was really thinking about for a while and i wasn't sure i wanted to do it but i decided you know end of year into 2021 this was supposed to be the better year than 2020. i'm not sure it's turned out that way but i'll be honest um for for me it's turned out to be really great um my channel has grown the eve corp channel i've watched it grow scott's gotten out there and he's starting to grow you guys give me so much great feedback and you give me so many great comments um i had somebody on one of my videos go he just he just commented basically my opening line which is you know it's your opinion advocate and it's made me smile so big and so stupid you know that that i knew if anybody was sitting there watching me to be like what what is wrong with you but um at the same time uh you know it made me feel good that somebody recognizes that that line and if they understand why i'm there um and what i'm trying to do and and you know i'll be honest if you scott had a great point if you want a domain name i highly recommend you go out there and do it it's a little bit of cost you know 10 15 bucks for a year maybe you can get them for less than that but on top of that i highly recommend going out and checking the evacorp video on cloudflare he's they've got a couple of them out there that are really good and cloudflare just offers some really tremendous stuff for protecting your domains and dealing with your domains on top of everything else you don't have to buy them from cloudflare you can you can just kind of manage your dns from cloudflare which is great but seriously seriously suggest that i mean cloudflare offers some really really cool stuff and it's stuff that can make your life easier especially when you're first starting self-hosting um to kind of get out there and just learn about that yeah so i i want to say that because those are some great ones and scott's just like that stuff on vlan we're not surprised i'm not getting paid to say any of this guys i'm getting paid by youtube maybe if i put ads on it but i don't usually put ads on my live streams so you guys should be able to get this ad for you even afterwards so yeah but uh yeah it looks like there's some great content getting around so make sure you check all of our channels out um really appreciate you guys coming in today and thanks for having us uh i really hope you guys have a good christmas period and a happy new year i agree and we'll see you for 2024 whatever see how it pans out whatever you celebrate i just hope you have safe holidays around this time of year and i don't you know new year whether whether you celebrate new year now or chinese new year or anything else you know all these holidays come up this time of year i want everybody to have safe happy holidays merry christmas happy new years happy hanukkah everything um you know i i this is the time of year to be thankful for something and and i hope that you're all thankful for for the things that you've got and the things that you can do and i'm thankful for these guys for for coming on and spending time with me and i'm thankful for you all for for tuning in every every week when i put out a new video and for being patient uh while i stumble through some of my topics but um i really enjoy doing it i i wish i could show you how much i cut out um to save you from having to hear me ramble so much but uh i do remember friends help friends self-host that's right yeah that's right thank you scott all right i i'm i'm ready to call it i'm i'm tired i know chris i'm sure chris is about to fall out of his chair [Laughter] all right enjoyed it guys all right thank you guys have a good day bye bye thanks everyone for watching we're going to be ending the stream now and we'll see you in the next apricorp video absolutely yep thanks you

Channel: IBRACORP

Views: 408

Keywords: ibracorp, ibraco, ibra corp, open source, awesome open source, tech livestream, it round table, it discussion, open source discussion, scotti-byte, ibracorp plex, ibracorp unraid, ibracorp youtube, open source software, ibracorp trailer, selfhosted, ibracorp tutorials, nginx proxy manager, unraid, ibracorp cloudflare, ibracorp australia, open source projects, linux, opensource, open-source, open source news, self-hosted, unix, docker, self hosted, homelab, proxmox, technotim, techno tim

Id: FZ2vwNfizII

Length: 117min 11sec (7031 seconds)

Published: Sun Dec 19 2021