Incredible stories from a life of discipleship: an interview with Andrew Wommack | Bonus Ep. 3

i had this friend of mine who he was he was still in the baptist church and he was famous for casting demons out of people and so anyway this one baptist pastor came to him and says i want to talk to you about all this demon-possessed stuff and so he took him out to eat and they were at a restaurant a steakhouse and he says so how do you get these demons to manifest how do you know if a person has demons or if it's just the flesh or something and he was talking to him and he says no i want to know what you say what do you do and he says well you just look at him and say devil in the name of jesus i command you to manifest right now and this guy goes and jumps up on the table in a restaurant hey everybody welcome to the podcast today i am here with not just my father's friend but my friend andrew womack minister here um proverbs 27 10 says do not forsake your friend or your father's friend so i try to make it a habit to actually become friends with my father's friend because well i mean we're in this for more than just our generation we're in it for multiple generations so i'm excited to to just get to talk this is a bonus episode of the podcast uh so this is just extra material for your listening reviewing pleasure thank you for being here well thank you jacob it's real blessing to be with you all right blessing we're jumping in straight in interview uh i ask people to send some questions and i got a few good ones but i'm gonna give you a couple softballs first um of all the things you do because you travel the world well not in the last year and a half you do live streams like i don't know four times a day pretty much every day you teach in school you you teach in churches you do conferences uh you do television broadcasts of all the things you do what is your favorite part of your job ministry-wise we're talking about we'll start with that i'll ask personally in a minute we have all the things you do fulfilling your purpose in your vocation what's your favorite part well it's hard to identify because i enjoy all of it i would have to say i guess charis teaching at caris because that's where we have to train the next generation yeah and so uh the older i get the more i'm focused on i've got to raise up other people and not just do everything myself what would be a a time where you you are always full of stories what would be a moment where that favorite part teaching it charis like where what you desire to see in in them you actually saw happen at the same time to where you walked away going that's why i do this well again when i teach in class i see a lot of people that just get transformed and so in between classes they come up and i've had some people just give awesome reports about things but i think that when i go out and minister i bring my students with me and they uh pray with me and they minister to people and that's really exciting to see when they start seeing people come out of wheelchairs and blind eyes open deaf ears open i really really enjoy that that's cool um okay then personally hobbies things you do for fun enjoyment maybe things with jamie maybe things with people like my dad my favorite thing is being home that in the last 18 months like you said i've been home so much that you know it's kind of changing but before anytime i had any time off we just wanted to be home because we were gone so much and and so i'll just sit home study and i'll study the word up to 10 hours a day and go walk in a couple hours and i have a woodworking shop and i make things in that and those are kind of things i do so you are in a state of pouring out like all the time how do you monitor internally uh staying filled up because that's something that we all have to take personal responsibility for and you pour out as much as anybody on the planet so how do you stay filled up well first of all i try not not to ever unplug from the lord like a lot of people have their spiritual life and their secular life and they will go watch movies they will do things that are completely contrary to everything they're saying and doing and i try to never do that i don't watch very much television and uh if we watch a movie it's some old old movie that we've seen a hundred times and we'll go back and watch it's something that i know is not gonna be contradictory and stuff so i just stay in a attitude of the lord like i've been out i was out walking an hour and a half this morning and just praying and fellowshipping with the lord and then when i'm not ministering i'll be in the word and studying and so it's just you know the scripture says that the just live by faith they don't visit there they don't vacation there it's with the way they live and so i try and make it just a lifestyle and that that way it keeps even though i put out a lot it keeps me from being drained yeah um what what personal disciplines are you the most adamant about maintaining i don't have a lot of disciplines i'm going to mess up your whole broadcast we just had uh some people teaching you know on leadership and all of the things that you do and how you discipline yourself and and honestly my life is so that i don't i can't have a routine it's like not like i get up every morning and do this and then go because i travel and i'm ministering like uh today i've got things going all afternoon then we got services tonight and so um anyway i had to get up early at seven o'clock to go walking which normally i would have got up and got on the internet and answered some questions and studied the word but it just it's hard for me i don't have a routine again it's just something that is i fellowship with the lord constantly as much as i possibly can and if i get some free time out i'll spend a day just studying the word for 10 hours it's awesome which is a discipline so um but it really you know it's i understand what you're saying but it's really not a discipline if you love doing it that's true and so i enjoy it it's not something i have to force myself to do if i have free time i would just as soon sit down and study the word as do anything else at what point did that cross over in your relationship with the lord where not that you ever had to be in a place where you were making yourself do it but you it became effortless like what you're saying that like discipline is freedom because when you discipline it doesn't mean you don't enjoy it it's like just training at what point in your training yourself and with the lord that it became where all i want is to study the word fellowship with the lord be in prayer being quiet with the lord take a walk and fellowship with him i was kind of forced into it because when i was drafted and sent to vietnam i didn't know a whole bunch of the word and there was just so much ungodliness and pressures and things around that i was either going to go that direction or i knew i needed god and so out of desperation i started studying the word and i didn't have a lot of revelation but i was getting the word in me i read through the bible multiple times so it was important to get that information and then when i got out of vietnam i remember that i saw where god wanted me to be and where i was and i thought man how in the world do i ever go from here to there and i was praying and kneeling around my bed this is before i was married and i had my bible open i'd been reading in the word and when i opened my eyes the lord spoke to me jacob and he said you just stick your nose in this book and it'll teach you everything you need to know and so from that time on that was a word from god and i it was a discipline at first and i started doing it but you know the scripture says oh taste and see that the lord is good but once you start having god reveal his word to you i know you know all these things but jeremiah chapter 5 verse 14 says his word will be like fire shut up in your bones or excuse me that's 29 but uh in the new testament luke chapter 24 he says did not our hearts burn within us while he talked with us in the way and once you get god's word come alive and god reveal the word to you and speak something to you i mean it's addictive yeah romans chapter 16 talks about the household of stephanus who've addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints and and it really is an addiction so for me i agree with what you're saying that i started as a discipline because the alternative was bad but boy once you begin to start tasting and seeing that god's good it's not hard to study the word so you say multiple times i was in prayer and the lord said i was praying or i was in scripture or what you just said about like the lord said stick your nose in this book um not a lot of people feel like they can discern the voice of the lord like that um what are the ways you you teach and train people that like how to hear that voice that is speaking but we're just not always listening i just happen to have a series entitled how to hear god's voice and it's a process but one of the things that the lord showed me when i understood what i call spiritual body your dad calls it identity in christ and lots of different ways of referring but when i recognize that my spirit was born again and in union with god that changed the way that i heard god because i at first was waiting on him to speak to me in the third person from the outside end and i began to realize that no my spirit is in communion with him and when god speaks to me my spirit hears it and then that my thought or my response is you know i need to get into the word of god and some people think that's your own thought but it's god communicating with your spirit and then your spirit speaks to you in the first person so all of that to say that i've never heard an audible voice from god or anything like that but i'll i'll be asking for something and i mean out of the blue a thought will come to me that isn't mine i would never have thought this way and god just inspires my thoughts and and supernaturally speaks to me that way when i started on television i knew that someday i was going to be on television but i knew it was expensive i knew it could destroy the ministry we had struggled financially and so i had just kicked that can down the road and man i didn't want to hear anything about it and in 1990 98 i guess it was i was praying and all of a sudden i just saw how to do television i actually saw myself doing it and i got so excited about it that i couldn't even sleep for about a week and it was so opposite the way i had thought for two decades that i said this has got to be god and you know a scripture i'm sure you're aware of psalms 37 4 delight yourself in the lord and he'll give you the desires of your heart that doesn't mean he'll give you anything you lust for but yes sometimes our desires aren't good but when we delight ourself in the lord which is a big if if god is first in our life then he will put his desires in our heart and i've i remember being in segaville texas and i pastored there for two years and the largest crowd we ever had was 12. most of the time it was five or seven and uh people were telling me you need to leave cedarville they don't want you and but i just loved it i had a desire to be there and i just couldn't understand why people couldn't see that and yet in the natural we were struggling financially numbers in every way it was bad and then one day i was down at the church praying and i mean i looked out the window and it's like everything went from color to black and white and i looked at that town and i thought this is the ugliest place i've ever seen in my life and i thought who would ever want to live here and he was just 180 degrees opposite what i had felt for two years and it was such a radical departure i thought this can't be my thoughts so i had to discern was this the devil or was it god and i spent about a couple hours praying about it and the lord told me your time here is up and so i continued to pray until he finally told me he says you're leaving on november the 1st and i thought well i got to go home and tell jamie and i thought how am i going to break this news to her i mean just out of the blue and when i got home there was a for sale sign in our front yard and i went in and i said what's the for sale sign for and she says the landlord came by and said you got to be out here november the 1st and so you put all coincidence things together and the fact that my desires just changed flip-flop instantly and then as i prayed i got this feeling that we needed to be out in november the first and had it confirmed i mean that to me is how you discern god's voice and what i hear hannah and i actually were talking about this uh the other day that i hear part of the way you are activating uh others in faith but it's even possibly and you can confirm or deny activating your own faith is you start telling stories uh you tell stories that are building faith in people and that's what i hear is like you you see that uh these things aren't just coincidental they're not occasional and that you allow that to build one on another and it grows and matures so did i no that's a life content that is very good and see this is why i think a lot of people don't hear the voice of god is because they don't remember the times that god spoke to him we just had mike and kerry pickett minister on monuments building monuments and you know there's a lot of scriptures on that and that is so important and some people i've heard this expression all my life i don't know if you have heard this or not but i always heard you're like a goose you wake up in a new world every morning and what that saying is about is that you don't have a history yeah you don't remember and there's like three times uh twice in second peter that the lord said or peter said that i'm going to stir you up through putting your minds in way of remembrance and memory really stirs you up and if you rehearse your victories and remember the good things that god has done then you bring all that with you into today and instead of just being like a goose and today's a brand new day and you have no history with the lord man i remember all of those things and you know i mentioned this yesterday when we were talking to some of your staff but i used march the 23rd 1968 everything in my life relates around that i remember it every day of my life and i go back and remember when god changed my life and then the times like these examples i've already given i remember those things on probably a daily or a weekly basis i'm constantly rehearsing those things and it builds your faith why why do you feel like some people see that just almost foreign like why why do you think the average christian doesn't see that as a way of life for themselves i think that's for you you're special you're the hero in the faith those for ministry staff but us average people don't live that way like why do you think there's such a gap in that well i'm going to use terminology that a lot of people don't agree with but the bible calls it carnal the word carnal means of the five senses and most people are just completely dominated by what they can see taste tear smell and feel they live in this physical realm and so they are so dominated by what's happening right now that they don't live out of their spirit they don't live out of their thoughts most people are emotion driven like if you would stop and think about it i could name names of this minister i'm talking about but this guy had the largest ministry in the world more people were listening to him than any any person in history and he decided to go and have an adulterous affair and blew the whole thing he was getting 8 million dollars a month back 25 30 years ago which nowadays i don't know what that would relate to but he it was huge and he threw it away because of a lust of feeling and desire if he had been using his head he wouldn't have ever done that and this is where most people live they are dominated controlled by emotions i feel this sin is not smart sin is emotional and most people are completely living and controlled by emotions and so that's the reason that they just live in the moment they're living for whatever pleasure whatever thing they can get at this exact moment and if they reading the word to me puts me back into a spiritual mindset because you're going and seeing what happened with david when he threw everything away and the way it affected his children and and you think like that it just gives you a different perspective you see things differently and so i that's the terminology i would use that people today are carnal they're living totally by their emotions and uh most people think i'm emotionless which i'm not i've actually got teary eyed at uh cruella deville killing those little dalmatians it's just terrible so i'm really a sensitive guy but i choose which emotions i want i do not let emotions dominate me and i think that's why most people just live in the moment they're just going by their feelings thanks you help me with one of the points i have tonight i'm recording this friday of jubilee i'm speaking tonight whenever you're listening to this that's the past that was one of the points i was meditating on this morning so thanks i feel like the lord spoke to me just now um some advice for us that are younger in leadership um you have 53 plus years of some form of ministry experience um i am still young even though i hit 20 years uh here next year what kind of advice would you give to those who are in my state that are looking we still want 30 40 50 more years of serving the lord um leading people to jesus what are the most important lessons that you would pass down you know my generation of the very first time that we took our students on a missions trip we went to wales and we met with arthur burt i don't know if you ever heard of him but he traveled with smith wigglesworth he died when he was 103 years old and at that time he was probably 85 or 90. and we went over there and we were just sitting around asking him questions what was it like to be with smith wigglesworth and what miracles did you see and so we we asked him questions for a couple hours and this one kid who never said anything intelligent in his life he came up and he says what advice do you have as an old minister to a young minister basically the same question you're asking and arthur byrd it was really good he says the best thing you can do for a young minister is to listen to an old minister and that was his answer but that was really profound that again when you're young and i'm i'm guilty of believe it or not i was young once and i was guilty of thinking that man god has spoken to me i've got a revelation and i don't care what's going on in your life that god has spoken to me and man i'm gonna reinvent everything and you know the older i get i've found people that are in denominational churches that i don't even agree with doctrinally but if they've been there for 30 40 50 years they've done something right i mean that's unusual and i've gotten to where i really respect longevity and there's something that you can learn from people that have been in the ministry a long time because you you don't do that without getting a lot of shots yeah and a lot of things happen you i i don't know you real well but i know you enough to know that you've already been through a lot of stuff and you've had things happen and you need to learn by other people's mistakes but you have to interpret it yeah to a degree because not everything that they've learned is good or accurate and so overall i would say that the number one thing i do is first corinthians chapter 10 verses uh or excuse me anyway i think it's first corinthians 10 6 through 11 it says all of these things that were written were written for our learning so that we through their experience might learn not to lust not to do all these things and so the number one thing i've done is just live vicariously through these people you know i went to the i went to gettysburg in a number of different places and was looking at some historical things and i bought the book by robert e lee his biography and read it and uh it was really interesting i mean the south technically should have won the civil war they had the union on their heels multiple times and yet something would happen like i don't know if you've heard the story about the battle plans that were wrapped three cigars wrapped in the battle plans and that literally turned the balance of the civil war a guy fell out of his pouch and the union got hold of it and were able to counter attack and stonewall jackson had the union on the run and yet all of a sudden he just stopped and he could have i mean within the first year of the war he could have defeated the union and i was reading this and it was really interesting but i i'm so used to reading the bible that in the bible when something like that happened it would tell you why it happened that god sent an angel and killed 186 000 syrians but in robert e lee's thing you just saw what was happening but you didn't see what was going on in the spirit realm and i was just thinking man i would love to know what caused this general to make this decision and stuff and so anyway my point is that when you read the word you not only see what happened but you get the explanation of how god's supernaturally caused this to happen and that is so instructive to me that i have i have learned not to commit adultery through david i didn't have to do it myself i've learned the lesson of being a people pleaser through saul and i didn't have to learn that myself and so i'd say that the word of god is the number one thing and then listening to people who've already been there before you and learn through them so well two things i see as the last two answers you've given i see some correlation about the lack of memory and the lack of learning um do you feel that that is some of the primary cause of some of our big cultural issues today man that's a rhetorical question absolutely i mean you know i've had i think it was bill federer say that when you forget the history of the nation that's like a person that has alzheimer's and they can't function they can't live on their own they can't they don't remember hardly anything they can't get from one point to another and of course we see the damage that alzheimer's does to an individual but we've got national alzheimer's and the woke movement and the cancer culture is trying to rewrite the history and say that we're systemically racist which is a lie now that's not to say that there hasn't been racism racism and that there still isn't racism but it's not a black on white thing it's just sin it's just sin did you know that the first slave owner legal slave owner in the united states was a black man anthony johnson 1633 all of the you know the 1619 movement that they talk about our project those were indentured servants that served for seven years and then were released and anthony johnson was one of those indentured servants and when he got released he had four white slaves and one black slave in the back say after his seven years left and started working and he took him to court and he won a lifetime servitude of that man and anthony johnson was the first legal slave owner and it's not white on black the indians had more slaves per capita than the anglos did and stuff so anyway my point is is see if you don't know those things then you submit to these statements that are racist and i tell you it's super damaging yeah what we don't know is killing us individually and as a nation so ignorance is not bliss no matter of fact uh ignorance is um deadly yeah that'll kill you so i'll ask this from the positive and the negative but um what is the thing that most encourages you about a younger generation my generation the generation under me what's the thing that you see that gives you hope that gives you encouragement that uh makes you feel like hey this isn't all bad well you for one thing and people like you that are uh standing for the word of god that's awesome and we have a lot of young people in our school i've seen a statistic from uh george barna that the young people are more pro-life than their parents were that the millennials and again i'm not sure on all of these names millennials are what a they're probably 20 now uh yeah they're they're the older ones now they're uh those born depends on where you measure it and i've even seen barna use multiple age it's either those born after 1980 or 1984. man those are two 40 years up to uh up to two thousand so wow but anyway yeah uh yeah we're not we're not as young as we used to be i am a millennial i'll admit no matter how you measure it but anyway the millennials are more pro-life yeah than their parents were and so those are some good signs and i honestly don't have that much friends that are your age most of them are my age but we our students men we have some students that are just turned on we've got people all over the world that run our running our offices and charis bible colleges some young people and man they're just doing a great job so i i have a word from god i believe that the lord told me we are entering into the third great awakening yeah and there's not a lot of signs of that if you were just looking at the ten spies network news but uh if you i believe i've got a word from god and i really believe that we are seeing an awakening and people coming alive yes so in the negative what what are the one or two maybe three things that discourage you not that you live discouraged but you see aren't good signs in a younger generation well the fact again i don't know if this is going to come across well or not but the way that people live on their cell phones and live on social media social media to me i've i've got a social media thing that my ministry puts out and uses but i've never been on social media i don't do that stuff and it's just weird to me the way that people live on social media because uh somehow or another on social media you aren't having this one-to-one interaction that you and i are having and on social media people say things and will post things that they would never do one to one you lose this personal interaction i've actually seen people i bet you've seen this people sitting at the same table eating and they're all on their phones doing something else instead of talking to the person that's right in front of them and to me that is just weird and i think that we're losing the ability to really have relationships so i think that certainly the young people have more access to information like i'm just now learning that i can talk to my phone and ask it anything and it has an answer that is so weird to me but uh you've got information and you've got access to information but the vast majority of it is not good information and it's it's just like the sewage of the world flows through their minds and they i've heard a statistic that the average person spends four to five hours a day on their phone and i wouldn't doubt if that's not a uh generous yeah it is and that you aren't going to do that and be sensitive to god you cannot just be constantly being touched by the world in all of these areas and again the vast majority of stuff on the internet is not good it's bad and even if you get a conservative news source or something they're going to be reporting all the bad stuff from a conservative perspective instead of pushing it and saying this is right they'll be saying look how bad it is but they're just showing you all the bad stuff so i think that that's one thing that's really really bad one of the best times that ever happened in my life was when i got drafted and sent to vietnam and of course in vietnam we didn't have any of the internet or social media or any of that stuff and it even took two weeks to get a letter from the states and so it was total isolation and out of nothing but just survival i stuck my nose in the bible and started reading and that was one of the most productive times in my life just because satan didn't have access to me i was constantly focused on the lord but but young people the way that they live on the internet and stuff i think is a really damaging thing i heard a writer talk about that when you live your whole life digitally you lose a sense of identity and you have to fabricate an identity and what we see now with uh so many people trying to create hundreds of terminology uh for you know any kinds of sexuality or whatever it's because there's no sense of self with that that relates in community it's all a projection that now you have to affirm that and so a loss of identity it's kind of a what you my dad kind of spent a lot of time teaching people on and you know i i helped start the pregnancy center in colorado springs and we've had great success actually shut down one planned parenthood and there's not a single doctor in colorado springs that will perform an abortion so we've had some great success but because of my association there i actually went and spoke at a pregnancy center convention and one of the ladies there was a psychologist and she was talking about all of the uh uh sexually uh you know loose morals that we have today and she was relating a lot of it to the fact she had and i forget the details but like four or five steps towards intimacy between a man and a woman and he said when you're she was saying when you're a kid you know just being around a girl is a challenge because they have different everything and so you feel different and you have to adjust and learn to relate on just being in the presence of somebody with the opposite sex and then when you just touch hands or something like that that's another step and she went on and talked about how that you begin to start interacting and you you learn how to talk to somebody and then the final thing in marriage is the physical relationship and what she was saying was that in our day we skip all of those previous steps and we go straight i mean the first date you had you take them to bed and said by doing this you lose this ability to communicate and relate and you make the whole relationship about sex and so once you get married you can't hold a relationship together with sex only you have to have that interaction and learn how to just be friends and do stuff and because people skip all of these steps that's the reason we have so much divorce in all of these things so that same thing can be applied not only to the physical relationship but in relationship with people there's so much more than just digital stuff and i've learned this i imagine you guys have too because you've got all these different locations of your churches but even when you are communicating with somebody by email or text or even over the phone uh 70 something percent of all communication is non-verbal and it's uh if i want to really talk to somebody if we've got a problem i've got to see them now zoom is better than just phone but still there's something about even just being present the physical communication body language is so important and uh we're losing all of that yeah and people don't know how to relate to each other and so our communication is becoming more and more coarse crass the things that are being said you know on the news today are just terrible people would not have talked like this 20 years ago it's terrible and i think that the internet is one of the biggest forces in them so you have a word from god that we're in a great awakening hopefully it's going to affect areas like that but you also know a lot of your history and in the course of your ministry you've experienced various movements of the lord um some of them longer than others some of them still linger but in smaller pockets um charismatic move word and faith move grace move all these different movements what are some things that you've learned that will be important as we see a work of god and we want to see it not just sustain but actually drastically affect the the corruption of our world what would be some things that you've learned from these various movements that you feel like are important for us to not lose in the midst of what's god's doing right now that's a good question and you know i asked a similar thing of david barton i had him on my television program once the lord spoke to me about this third great awakening and we talked about the first second and then the third and i asked him i said so what was the difference between like a great awakening versus the charismatic move the word of faith move and his response was that those things were really powerful and man the charismatic move was awesome it was exciting but he said that the difference is it didn't emphasize discipleship and to prove that look at california where the jesus people movement was and i mean they were radical and you saw these tremendous things happening and yet california is one of the most liberal places on the planet because there and there are millions of people there that were part of the jesus movement and they got touched but they weren't discipled and the difference between a a revival or a movement of god and an awakening is that the people not only get touched by the lord but then they get discipled to the point that they start living it out and that affects culture so an awakening is something that affects culture a move of god or a revival is something that may affect individuals but doesn't necessarily change the culture so back to your question i believe that the thing that we need to do in this third grade awakening is we've got to disciple people and in the charismatic move i was in the baptist church at the time and so when i got turned on to the lord i came out of the baptist church and i went to the assembly of god church thinking man these people have had this truth the whole time and they were more against the charismatic move than the baptist were i mean if you were a charismatic you would be kicked out of a pentecostal church in a second they hated charismatics and so my point is that all of the charismatic moves there was no place for them to go and so they came out and they didn't have people that had been in the ministry for 20 and 30 years they had people that had just gotten born again a year before and baptized in the holy spirit six months before and these were the spokesman for the whole thing and so there was a lot of weird stuff i mean i could spend hours talking about the weirdness of the charismatic move but it was because there was no spiritual maturity in the leadership i'm not gonna lie myself and probably all the listeners might enjoy a story or two of the weird i could give i could give thousands i'm a demon possession was just i mean it was new and there are demon possessed people and stuff but boy we got into a ditch doing some of that i had this friend of mine who he was he was still in the baptist church and he was famous for casting demons out of people and so anyway this one baptist pastor came to him and says i want to talk to you about all this demon possessed stuff and so he took him out to eat and they were at a restaurant a steakhouse and he says so how do you get these demons to manifest how do you know if a person has demons or if it's just the flesh or something and he was talking to him and he says no i want to know what you say what do you do and he says well you just look at him and say devil in the name of jesus i command you to manifest right now and this guy goes and jumps up on the table in a restaurant and the reason he was so curious is because he had all of these demonic problems and so this guy had to cast the demons out of him in the restaurant we used to make them throw up in buckets there was a book i won't tell you the name of it unless somebody go read it but they taught that you had to have them throw up to get these demons out and so you always had them throw up in a bucket and you'd ask them their name one time i was casting demons out of a person i said what's your name in the name of jesus and then his demon goes liar and i said are you telling me the truth like you know it was just stupid and uh you know i i we saw a lot of demons cast out of people saw people that were high on drugs get delivered and i mean instantly uh normal and so we had people coming to us and i had this one guy who was a homosexual and he had been coming and another mistake we made was we thought we had to have him fill out a questionnaire we'd ask them questions we'd groom them for three weeks before we cast the demons out which none of that stuff's necessary but anyway that's what i was doing and so i was still in this baptist church and we had been dealing with a guy for about two or three weeks who was a homosexual and so he came on a wednesday night and he says i came to get this demon cast out of me and and we were also taught you had always had to have two people you couldn't do it by yourself and so i said well the guy who helps me cast demons out he's not here i said i can't do it he says well you got to do something because i'm not leaving with these homosexual demons and so uh anyway i took him in a back room and i said look i'm not gonna do this and i asked jamie my wife she wasn't my wife at that time but she was a prayer partner and i said come back and she'd never done any of this and so it was all brand new to her and so anyway i said i'm not casting these demons out and he says well they're coming out and he brought another guy with him who was also a homosexual and he wanted to see what was going to happen so anyway we were in this room and i said well i'll pray with you but i'm not casting those demons out when i started praying this guy fell on the floor and got to barking like a dog and then slithering like a snake and this was in a corner room that was two it was two corners and and two sides were glass and he the chairs were stacked there was chairs stacked about 10 high and when he started doing this this other homosexual climbed on top of the chair and was plastered against the wall it scared him and this guy started taking chairs and throwing them against the glass wall and barking and doing all of this and and this was in a baptist church and so they heard this and the usher went into the church service and said pray for andrew he's witnessing to a guy he didn't know what was going on and so anyway i was in there and i so i was in the midst of it what do you do and so i started saying what's your name tell me your name in the name of jesus what's your name and i at least 10 demons started naming them so he had multiple personalities and it was a mess and i just felt like i was being made an absolute fool out of and i i thought god what do i do and the lord just brought to me a scripture that where jesus commanded them to hold their peace and come out and i thought boy that'd be good and so i just said in the name of jesus i command all of you to shut up and come out right now in jesus name and this guy just collapsed on the floor it looked like he was dead and he was laying on his stomach and so i went up and touched him and he didn't respond and i rolled him over on his back and he goes i'm free and he was totally delivered of all of these demons without me asking them their name and having them throw up in a bucket and i thought man why was i doing all of that stuff and so since that time i just cast demons out but we had a lot of really weird things happen and what what i don't want to lose in that is that it's not that those things weren't real and that's what my dad he lose he he doesn't tell a bunch of these stories i think just his pastor's hearts like i just can't do this to people he doesn't want people to imitate that yeah um but it isn't that that isn't real uh or that things aren't people aren't really suffering and uh a question i had that may be appropriate here what what is your um critique might be not the right word but where you see charismatics that this is like the the world of the spirit is real demons are real uh you know these things are real things but we are the weird ones most the time so what like what is your instruction and what is your critique of charismatics to both handle the real things but also not get in a ditch like that well again i can do that from my own personal experience that when i started casting these demons out we got a reputation and people started coming to us from everywhere and we had this one girl who she was a lesbian and she was more masculine than she was female and we led her to the lord she got born again and she began to start seeking the lord and and she got a job she started dressing like a woman had a purse and stuff but she went to work one day and while she was at work she just flipped out she didn't remember her name she didn't remember where she lived she she she uh just somehow or another lost everything and she didn't even know anything and so she didn't know what to do and a woman came up to her and said debbie i'll pick you up at you know such and such time so she knew what her name was from that she had this woman take her home she went through her purse and found some keys and went in and she didn't come to church that night so we went over to check on her and she didn't know who we were and she started telling us all of this and so anyway we recognized that this was demonic and that if we would have sent her to the doctor or something no telling what they had done and uh so we just locked her in a room and for seven days we just beat the devil out of her not physically but we would sing songs about the blood and she would scream and yell and we had her on the bed and she would just throw fits and i was holding her arm and another person was holding her arm and holding both legs because she was just screaming and tormented and i was kneeling beside the bed she was laying on her back and this is just a girl and she was laying on her back and she was so strong i was on this arm and she just took me and threw me over her head up against the wall on the other side of the room and for seven days we just sang songs about jesus and the blood and after seven days she got delivered and she was free but again that's not the way to do it but we didn't know what else to do so all of those things made me so demon conscious that i got to where i saw a demon on every doorknob and if a person twitched if they blinked i'd think that's demonic and i became so demon conscious then i rented this place and we were going to open up the arlington christian center and let drug addicts come in and we were going to get them delivered so anyway we rented this place and i was praying uh at two o'clock in the morning we had a 24-hour prayer chain going in our church and it was my job to pray from two to three and it had been the fraternity house at the university of texas at arlington and who knows what went on in there but when i was praying these demons manifested me and i i mean they started choking me i was being hit and there was nobody there and these things were happening and it scared me so badly that i got out i ran out of that house got my car backed out and i was getting ready to peel out and go down the road and as i peeled out the lord said there is no armor for your back and i and i knew what he was talking about and said that you can't run from this you got to face it and i said god you would not want me to go back in that house and he never said anything else so i pulled back in the driveway and sat there for a long time and finally i went in and locked myself in that house and from about 2 30 or 3 o'clock until daybreak i just fought those demonic things and and they left and it was clear and i could mention a lot of other things but i had dreams where satan would attack me and i'd wake up and i'd be bleeding i mean i'd in the dream somebody was beating me in when i got up it was real and i got so demon conscious that it was i i actually found myself like i'd pray for three hours and spend two hours of the three hours talking to the devil rebuking the devil finding them and he just dawned on me i spent him more time during my prayer time talking to the devil than i was god and so through a lot of things i finally just decided that you know what satan cannot do anything to me without my consent and cooperation and i'm going to quit focusing on the devil and since that time i have never had satan physically attack me and i think he was using my focus on him and my awareness of him and i was actually in a way more aware of his power than i was god's power and and he was using that to attack me and so since that time that's been probably 50 45 50 years ago i've never had a personal manifestation of satan attacking me because i had to in a sense give place to that through being focused on him so that's bad do you think sometimes now charismatics get more focused on form like the things that you were doing that again those were real and you were working the best you could at the with the knowledge you had at the time you think we get more focused on form if i do this if i if i say this if i act this way that's where my charismatic powerful spiritual authority comes from versus where our spiritual authority actually come from people are always looking for something physical that they can latch on to instead of walking by the spirit you walk in the spirit you won't fulfill the lust of the flesh but when you walk in the spirit it will produce certain things for instance uh there are people that uh in the charismatic that when they feel the presence of god they'll jerk and they'll do things like this i've had some of those things happen to me and i imagine that that started probably because somebody really felt the power of god you can physically feel it and they had some kind of a response and it was real to them and then everybody else started imitating them like falling out under the power of god i've had that happen to me i fell out one time and hit a metal chair with my head nobody caught me and in the natural it should have hurt should have caused some damage and i didn't feel a thing i thought somebody caught me so yes people fall out like daniel fell on his face and was as if he was dead so it is real but i've actually had people in my meetings when i lay hands on them they'll turn around and look to see if there's a catcher and then they'll fall that's not the holy ghost but they get into a form at one time somebody fell out under the power of god and people saw that it was real and so they started imitating thinking if i'll do this then that'll release the power of god or they jerked or they hallel say hallelujah or you know just all the religious forms so anyway people are just carnal again they are looking for something physical that they can do that they don't have to be spiritual they want to find it in the physical and that's just human nature to do those things um i i've uh been raised with my dad and my dad's travels i've gotten to be with him and often behind the scenes and i've got to be around big some big names and big ministries and most of the time i just was not that impressed i understand but there's there's two things um three big things that uh as as long as my dad and you have been friends and i've been interacting and around um one of them is your humility and your congruence which is what i always respected about my dad is my dad is my dad he is as interesting and uh he's himself but he's himself in every context he the the dad that raised me and the pastor that's on stage is the same person and so that's one of the things i see in in you that i i highly respect there's two other things that i don't see a lot of uh in people that you you carry that i'd love to hear you expound on these um one of them is how you don't seem to let differences keep you from relationship you have friendships and relationships with people that you don't agree with on uh some things and uh that is rare in a divisive culture where it's like people are looking for things to break in relationship and yet seeing you interact and spend time and be friends with people that i mean both of you know you don't agree on these certain things um where where did that come from and where at what point did you decide that that's going to matter to you that that's going to be important to you well again it came from the word where paul told us we have to speak the same thing be of the same mind same judgment about we're all one body that no one person does everything but there is two things i'd say one of them is that if you really recognize it like a person if they're truly born again even if you don't agree they're brothers you know i've got a physical brother who actually told my mother get away from andrew he's a cult and he said some bad things about me but he's my brother and i love him and i've never been upset at him and and it doesn't bother me and he's now come around and we're uh friends and everything's working but uh you know he's family and so that's one of the things i just look at people as family and if god if jesus died for them and loved them and if they've accepted him who am i to reject them i may not agree with what they're doing but i'm not going to reject them and then the second thing i think what it really comes down to security when i was first getting started in the word and god was showing me things and if a person disagreed with me i'd be strong because i was really insecure in what i was believing and what they were saying was having an effect on me and so one of the reasons i was pushing back so hard was because i wasn't confident securing what i have now i'm secure and if a person doesn't agree with me that's their problem i don't have a problem with it it's not it's not a challenge to me and so i'm not um rebelling out of insecurity and i really think jacob that that's what a lot of it is people are insecure especially pastors because if they embrace somebody who's saying something different they are insecure thinking their people might like them better and they may go over to that church they may respond to them better than me and so you have to come out against them in order to secure your own place but i'm just not at that place i'd i don't have a church i don't have any of those things and so it doesn't bother me that's really good because man that's a lot of what i see and it's what i've recognized in me when i get defensive or uh it's an insecurity and uh i the second thing that i have really respected well now i think i'm on number three the third thing that you just connected there that i i see you uh endure a lot is is your resilience to hardship and persecution and attacks and uh it doesn't affect you um how how did you develop that like where did that come from how did you develop it and how do you maintain that because it's something i don't see right now well it is a process but i can tell you going back to march the 23rd 1968 and without going into that whole story god just showed me his love and i mean i fell so in love with the lord that um that's really all i care about and because i every time somebody rejects me or comes out against me my my default thing is just to go back to father i know that you love me and if he loves me and if he's accepted me if i'll go back and check my heart and if i was doing something wrong then i'll repent of it but if i feel like i did the right thing and god says that he's pleased with me well then it just really doesn't matter if anybody else is or not you know before i got married i used to worry about girls and whether i was gonna you know be accepted with them and you were always trying to um relate to people of the opposite sex but once i got married and had jamie i just don't care if another girl doesn't like me because i'm married i got my wife amen and it's the same thing really with the lord that i've got a relationship with god and if somebody rejects me that's their problem but i go back to the lord i don't know if you ever played this uh game but we had we had a game when i was a kid and we called it wolves and sheep there's a lot of variations of it but you know the wolf would chase the sheep and catch them and you'd put them in this place but we'd always have a tree or something that was your safe spot and if you were touching that they couldn't do anything to you and so the reason i bring that up is to say that it's like god loving me is my safe spot it's the place i run to and if somebody criticizes me i just immediately turn back god do you still love me and of course he does and are you accepted did i do the right thing and if god's pleased with me it really doesn't matter what anybody else has to say and so that's a decision that you make and as you make it more and more you get to a place to where you don't have to have you are not codependent upon somebody else's approval god's the only one that you have to have their approval and i had a prophecy come to to me back when i was still in the baptist church and i was preaching things that were not baptist and eventually got kicked out of the church over and i was being criticized a lot in this guy joe nae who was a friend of mine he was holding a meeting and he called me out of the whole group and he says i see you like a runner on one of these oval tracks and he says you're running a race and you're leading the race you're leading the pack but the people in the grandstands are yelling at you and telling you you're doing it all wrong and i see you getting off of the track and going into the grandstands and arguing with the spectators and he went on to say even if you win the argument you're going to lose the race forget what the people are saying and man that i had that just recently for five weeks we've been trashed in our local newspaper and they're saying things about me that are terrible and my staff wanted us to come out with a rebuttal and to counter this stuff and i use that exact same thing i said i'm not going to get into the grandstands i said i don't care what people say about me and you just have to stay on track because even if you start defending yourself and justifying what you're doing and if you won the argument satan is actually one because you aren't preaching the gospel anymore you're spending your time defending yourself so even if you win the arguments you'll lose the race and i've just determined i'm not going to do that that's good because i don't think we're very resilient my generation and we get caught up in the petty arguments way too easy well i think it's not just your generation that's everybody you have to have you have to have an encounter with the lord and become so secure in the lord that really if everybody else rejects you who cares and that's not something that's normal it's not natural god made us for acceptance he made us for a relationship and so there's something inside of every person that longs to be accepted and it's counter intuitive it's counter our nature to have people criticize you and have it not affect you but the scripture says that you're supposed to cast all your care about that on the lord because he cares for you so understanding god's love for you and being able to cast your care over on him is the antidote to that yeah i've been reading your book don't limit god partly because i feel like in the season we're in uh with a project big i'm needing to think big and and uh you know not start recognizing my own limitations that i put on god um so last question uh if the lord tarries what is your what are you dreaming about for the next hundred years that you're you've now had what is it almost i mean it's over 20 years or right at 20 years of since that revelation of not limiting god and i know you've got some specific projects you're believing for some new things but i just want to stretch the timeline a little bit well beyond all of our lifetimes that are currently alive uh or at least an adult what are you dreaming what are you what are you seeing a hundred years from now you know i have terrorists i haven't thought that far ahead just to be honest with you uh the way i look at things is i'm only responsible for me and i was with oral roberts just a couple of months before he died and a man asked him he says you've changed the world with your revelation of god's a good god and things like this how do we change our nation and i was really interested to hear the response and oral said he says you can't change a nation you can't change a city you can't do anything on your own all you can do is what god tells you to do and if other members of the body will do what god tells them to do then god can knit these things together and do it but you can't change anything by yourself and so the reason i said that is to say that this is the way i look at my life i'm only responsible for what god has told me to do and i've got my staff asking about what's going to happen after you're gone and and we've built a basis that i think charis bible college it'll be debt-free and it'll probably by the time i leave it'll probably have over 200 million dollars worth of assets debt free and so it'll be set up for the next generation to continue on but i really don't have any control over that nor any vision for what's gone after i'm gone i've told them i said when i'm gone you can do whatever you want to because i'm out of here i don't care anymore but until i go god has shown me we've now got 120 million dollars worth of assets with six million dollars worth of debt and i'm getting that paid off quickly and then i still got at least 100 million dollars worth of buildings in my heart and possibly 150 or 200 million so that's as far as my vision goes as far as building things and those are just the physical assets but i see our school growing to where it has three or four thousand people on the main campus right now we're running seven times as many people in the whole system world worldwide is what we have on the main campus so if we continue those same things we could have up to 20 28 30 000 people in the school and i think that those people will go out and this could be a place that literally could change the nation if you get that many people turned on to god and doing what god tells them to do i think it could have a huge impact but again i'm just doing my part and letting god use it however he chooses to so i said last question i need i got one more at least well you're a preacher that's typical i think i'm on my final finally but we'll see um do you see so one of the things you're saying right there is that there's very few people on the planet that are operating at the level of vision and faith and trust in the lord to see that thing come to pass do you see not not specific names even but like do you see that kind of spirit in people because that that isn't everybody can can live in that kind of uh place of faith and trust and vision and not limiting god do you see people in the pipeline that are growing in that kind of anointing i do i don't think that they're at that place yet but then 10 years ago i wasn't at that place yeah so this uh so it's been coming in my life for decades but i see people with that kind of a vision and they're taking the limits off of god and they are learning how to believe and i think that i think the future is very secure matter of fact i was just in oklahoma city march the 5th and that we had a praise service going and my niece and nephew were running it and it was the first time that they had held a meeting like that they've been doing bible studies and they ran our school in oklahoma city but uh it's the first time they held this meeting and they had 700 plus people there it took me decades to get 700 people to come out and i was looking at that and the praise and worship was awesome the presence of god was so powerful and i was just sitting there praising god thinking god we're leaving this in good hands we're raising up people they're real young and here they are already doing things that it took me 30 years to accomplish and they're doing it in two or three years and what that's during that time when i was just thanking the lord is when he says someday the people in this auditorium will be telling the youth of their generation what it was like to be a part of the third great awakening and i said you mean we're gonna have a third great awakening and he said no it's already started and so i believe that god is raising up people that will do things that will eclipse what your dad has done what i've done what other people have done i think god's god's um i believe he's got a good plan for this nation and for the body of christ i don't believe we're going to go out with a whimper i believe we're going to go out with a victory shout and so i'm encouraged about the future amen well thank you for your time and words of wisdom i'm glad uh we set this up and we're able to get yeah all that thank you jacob you're a blessing especially the good stories um all of your teaching you put out awmy.net correct and then um what you are seeing next generation karis bible college that also is available online so if you're listening to this and you want to access more of that information please start at awmi.net we would love to see more and more traffic go and more and more people you've actually got 200 000 hours of free material on that website you could not that would be what how many years 66 years if you spend eight hours a day and if you spend 24 hours a day to be 22 years of solid listening that takes a long time to put that much it's not just only me it's also our instructors your dad's on there and stuff so it's good there's some good stuff amen well thank you thank you thanks for listening to this bonus episode give us a like a subscribe wherever you get your podcast uh share this that's one of the best ways of getting the word out you know somebody that needs to hear those stories so share this episode we appreciate it we'll see you in season two [Music]

Channel: Jacob Sheriff

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Id: pwKlD2iyYNw

Length: 68min 15sec (4095 seconds)

Published: Fri Sep 03 2021