FOLKS THAT ARE JUST JOINING THE WNBA AND FOLLOWING WOMEN'S SPORTS IS UNFAIR TO THE WOMEN OF THIS LEAGUE WHO HAVE LAID THE GROUNDWORK FOR CAITLIN CLARK TO COME IN AND NOW TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING IN THESE CONVERSATIONS. >> WHO TALKS ABOUT WOMEN, WHO TALKS ABOUT WOMEN'S SPORTS NOR THAN FIRST TAKE? >> STEPHEN A., RESPECTFULLY, YOU COULD HAVE BEEN DOING THIS THREE YEARS AGO IF YOU WANTED TO. >> THAT VIRAL MOMENT ENCAPSULATES THE GENERAL TONE AND FEELING ABOUT THE WNBA AND WOMEN'S BASKETBALL IN GENERAL THESE DAYS. ESPN ANALYST MONICA McNUT ABSOLUTELY COOKED HOST STEPHEN A. SMITH AS THEY DISCUSSED THE LATEST CONTROVERSY TO COME OUT OF THE SUDDEN BOOM OF INTEREST IN THE WNBA WHICH SEEMS TO CENTER ON CAITLIN CLARK AND IN IT A CONVERSATION ABOUT DISPARATE TREATMENT FOR BLACK AND WHITE PLAYERS AFTER CHENIED CARTER WHO IS BLACK SHOULDER SHOT CLARK, KNOCKING HER DOWN. THE FOUL WAS UPGRADED AFTER THE GAME TO A FLAGRANT FOUL. CLARK HAS BECOME A POLARIZING FIGURE DUE TO ALL THE FANFARE OVER HER ENTRY INTO A LEAGUE THAT'S BEEN AROUND FOR 27 YEARS. HER MAIN RIVAL DURING THEIR COLLEGE YEARS, CHICAGO SKY ROOKIE ANGEL REESE IS ONE OF MANY PLAYERS WHO HAVE SPOKEN OUT ABOUT DISPARATE TREATMENT. >> I LOOK BACK IN 20 YEARS AND BE LIKE, YEAH, THE REASON WHY WE WATCH WOMEN'S BASKETBALL IS NOT JUST BECAUSE OF ONE PERSON. IT'S BECAUSE OF ME TOO. I WANT YOU TO REALIZE THAT. >> IT COMES AMID A FOOD FIGHT IN THE MEDIA IN PARTICULAR OVER WHETHER CLARK IS BEING TREATED FAIRLY OR IF SHE'S BENEFITTING FROM WHITE BRIVOLOG. DURING THE SAME SHOW EARLIER THIS WEEK, STEPHEN A. SMITH SUGGESTED VETERAN PLAYERS ARE JEALOUS OF THE ATTENTION CLARK GETS. NBA LEGEND CHARLES BARKLEY HAS DEFENDED CLARK FROM PETTY HATERS AND ESPN HOST PAT McAFEE APOLOGIZED AFTER CALLING CLARK A WHITE B-WORD IN A RANT MEANT TO HIGHLIGHT HER ACCOMPLISHMENTS. IT'S A RACE BASED TALE AS LONG AS TIME. MEN PICKING SIDES FOR NO REASON. I'M JOINED BY JEMELE HILL, CONTRIBUTING WRITER AT THE ATLANTIC AND HOST OF THE JEMELE HILL IS UNBOTHERED PODCAST AND MY FRIEND. WHICH IS IT, IT IS HATERATION OR A LEGITIMATE BEEF BY BLACK WOMEN PLAYERS? >> WELL, I DON'T THINK IT'S -- THE HATERATION PART HAS BEEN COMPLETELY BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION. AND JUST BECAUSE YOU BRING UP INEQUITY, THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE SAYING YOU'RE JEALOUS OF THE PERSON WHO IS RECEIVING MAYBE A LOT OF THE ATTENTION, A LOT OF THE FANFARE, ENDORSEMENT DEALS, BUT THROUGH CAITLIN CLARK, WE ARE ABLE TO GET A LENS AND A WINDOW INTO HOW THIS MAJORITY BLACK WOMAN-LED LEAGUE HAS BEEN TREATED OVER TIME. I MEAN, CASE IN POINT, THE CHARTER FLIGHT ISSUE WHICH HAS BEEN IN THE MEDIA. YOU KNOW, THIS WAS AN ISSUE THAT THE PLAYERS HAVE BEEN RAISING FOR YEARS, AND THERE HAVE BEEN INCREMENTAL STEPS ALONG THE WAY. FIRST IT WAS FOR THE PLAYOFFS. THEN IT WAS FOR THE PLAYOFFS AND BACK-TO-BACK GAMES. AND THERE WAS THIS SENSE THAT THE NEXT COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT, THAT CHARTER FLIGHTS ALL THE TIME WOULD BE IN THERE. ALL IT TOOK WAS A VIDEO OF CAITLIN CLARK BEING HARASSED IN AN AIRPORT BY SOMEBODY IN THE MEDIA, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY ARE CHARTER FLIGHTS NOW FOR EVERYBODY. IT BEGS THE QUESTION THAT YOU COULD HAVE BEEN DOING THIS ALL ALONG, AND WHAT YOU FIND IS THIS SYSTEMIC PATTERN IN WOMEN'S SPORTS IN PARTICULAR THAT OFTEN WOMEN ARE TREATED THAT WAY BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN GET AWAY WITH IT AND THERE IS NO SYSTEM OF ACCOUNTABILITY. JUST AS A QUICK EXAMPLE, A COUPLE YEARS AGO, A LOT OF PEOPLE CAUGHT WIND OF THE FACT THERE WAS DISPARATE TREATMENT BETWEEN THE MEN'S AND WOMEN'S COLLEGE BASKETBALL PLAYERS. YOU SAW THE WOMEN, SEDONA PRINCE, TIKTOK, AND POINTED THIS OUT AS DID OTHERS IN WOMEN'S COLLEGE BASKETBALL. THEY GAVE WOMEN A COUPLE YOGA MATS, SOME DUMBBELLS THAT LOOKED LIKE THEY GOT THEM AT A GARAGE SALE. MEANWHILE, MEN HAVE ALL THIS EQUIPMENT, VERY PRETTY LOOKING STUFF. AND IT WASN'T THAT THEY COULDN'T AFFORD IT. IT'S JUST THAT BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY COULD GET AWAY WITH IT, AND NO ONE SHINE A LIGHT ON IT. WHAT YOU'RE FINDING NOW IS THROUGH CAITLIN CLARK, WE'RE ABLE TO SEE HOW THEY HAVE BEEN TREATING THESE WOMEN UP UNTIL THIS POINT. THAT'S CREATED A LOT OF CONVERSATION AND FRANKLY WHAT I DON'T LIKE ABOUT HOW MANY OF THE MEN WITH THESE PLATFORMS ARE SHAPING THE CONVERSATION IS THEY'RE REDUCING IT TO PETTINESS, TO JEALOUSY, THEY'RE PLAYING ON TERREO TYPES AND TROPES THAT ARE SAID ABOUT WOMEN IN GENERAL, BUT ESPECIALLY BLACK WOMEN. AND THIS IS A BLACK WOMEN LED LEAGUE, AND TO ME, THAT HAS REALLY DEVALUED THE CONVERSATION WE NEED TO BE HAVING. >> SOMEBODY VERY SMART SAID TO ME RECENTLY THE CHALLENGE WITH WOMEN'S BASKETBALL IS MOST OF THE STARS ARE BLACK, BUT -- MOST OF THE GREAT PLAYERS ARE BLACK, BUT MOST OF THE STARS ARE WHITE. WHETHER IT'S WHO'S GETTING REWARDED BY ESPN, WHO IS GETTING NOTICED BY MAGAZINES. IF THERE WERE CHARTER FLIGHTS, BRITTNEY GRINER WOULD NOT HAVE ENDED UP IN A GULAG. THESE LADIES ARE FLYING COMMERCIAL AND THEY'RE NOT TREATED LIKE THE MEN ARE. HOW MUCH OF THIS DO YOU THINK IS THE MARKETING POTENTIAL OF A CAITLIN CLARK? QUITE FRANKLY, THIS IS A LEAGUE THAT IS LARGELY BLACK WOMEN. IT'S LARGELY LGBTQ. SHE'S A WHITE HETEROSEXUAL WOMAN. SO IF YOU'RE TRYING TO GET WHITE DADS TO GO SPEND THEIR MONEY AND BUY SEASON TICKETS, SHE SEEMS LIKE A MARKETING OPPORTUNITY. HOW MUCH OF IT IS THAT? >> I DON'T KNOW WHY PEOPLE FIND THAT TO BE CONTROVERSIAL TO THINK ABOUT THAT. WE KNOW THAT MARKETING IS ABOUT ABILITY, TALENT, ALL THOSE THINGS. AND NOBODY IS SAYING THAT CAITLIN CLARK DOESN'T HAVE THOSE THINGS. SHE'S INCREDIBLY TALENTED. SHE'S BROKEN RECORDS, SHE'S PLAYING A PLAYING STYLE THAT PEOPLE LOVE THAT IS VERY REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT WE SEE TODAY PARTICULARLY ON THE MEN'S SIDE. BUT YES, IT HELPS THAT SHE'S WHITE, STRAIGHT, AND FROM IOWA IN A LEAGUE THAT HAS FACED MARKETING CHALLENGES OVER THE LAST THREE DECADES IT'S BEEN IN EXISTENCE. IT'S FACED MARKETING CHALLENGES BECAUSE OF THE THINGS YOU MENTION. BECAUSE 70% OF THE PLAYERS ARE BLACK WOMEN. BECAUSE A THIRD OF THEM IDENTIFY AS LGBTQ PLUS. YES, IT HAS FACED CHALLENGES. BY THE WAY, THE NBA WENT THROUGH THE SAME THING. YOU KNOW, BEFORE MAGIC AND BIRD ARRIVED AND TOOK THE NBA FINALS OFF TAPE DELAY, THE NBA WAS IN A VERY VULNERABLE SPOT. IT WAS A BLACK-LED LEAGUE, THERE WERE DRUG PROBLEMS, THERE WERE A LOT OF ISSUES. THEN YOU FAST FORWARD TO THE '90s AND 2000s WHERE THERE WAS THE MERGE WITH HIP-HOP. THAT'S HOW YOU GOT THE DRESS CODE, BECAUSE YOU HAD THE SAME ISSUE. A PREDOMINANTLY BLACK LEAGUE THAT HAD WHITE FANS OR MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHITE PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO INVEST IN THAT LEAGUE SO THEY HAD TO, QUOTE, CLEAN IT UP BY MAKING THE PLAYERS LOOK A CERTAIN WAY SO THEY COULD MARKET AND APPEAL TO EVERYONE. SO WHEN YOU SAY THAT CAITLIN CLARK'S WHITENESS AND THE FACT SHE'S STRAIGHT PLAYS A ROLE, UNDERLINE A ROLE IN HER POPULARITY, THAT'S NOT A DIS TO CAITLIN CLARK. IT'S SIMPLY AMERICA. >> I LOVE ANGEL REESE, I THINK SHE'S GREAT.
