Healing Racial Trauma | Sheila Wise Rowe

we have to be careful about how much we ingest a bit but at the same time we can't deny that that's a reality the the problem in all of this is that we do experience vicarious trauma from watching that and it taps into some really you know whether it's recent incidents that we've experienced within our family line it's triggering [Music] thank you for watching another episode of the Jude through posit podcast as always I'm your host Lisa fields decide that the juicer and project and I'm so excited to be back with you I appreciate you your all thoughts presence and Dolan sirs in the loss of my grandfather thank you very giving inspiration to take time to process that before I jump back on another podcast so thank you thank you cam for filling in for me the week before last and I'm sorry we didn't have an episode we plan to but there were some scheduling issues there so if I would miss that week but we're back with another episode of the g3 project podcast today I have a very special guest thank you so much for joining us tell our audience just a little bit about yourself yes so my background I am the Masters of all therapists I have worked with trauma survivors for decades I have worked in multiple settings Christian settings as well as secular settings in the US Paris France and South Africa and a lot of what I write about and talk about comes from those experiences as well as my own personal story and I've taught the Masters level counselors and also do life coaching spiritual direction my husband and I run the saw green movement which is a space for people of color to deal with racial trauma as well as just encouragement and powering them pretty new but that's something that we're really passionate about and the other my baby that's healing racial trauma at the road to resilience and really that comes out of my story and the story of so many black and indigenous and other people of color suffered racial trauma yes and I'm so excited to have you on thank you for your word and as many of you know that a watching will everybody knows unless they've been living in we've had incident after incident and these are not new on my are very George Floyd Brianna and there is so much trauma by seeing these people especially in the the cases where we have video that comes in in our soul or through social media being re-traumatized by seeing things over and over and over again sighs back why I wanted you to join us today when we think about racial trauma kind of what is racial trauma and how is it different from other other training right the when I think about like start with a general kind of trauma that people experience there's a lot of conversation about just being trauma-informed and the reality that everybody on some level have probably experienced some level of drama and in that there's a whole wide range where there was abuse early on or and maybe it's an abusive situation in the context of relationship or marriage there also may be physical trauma and there's emotional trauma the difference with racial trauma is that it really has some of the elements of trauma that is you know the average person experiences but it goes deeper and that it is very much connected to incidents of racism and it goes to the core sense of identity for an individual and so with with racial trauma you know we near these racist incidents that occur and they can range they can range from microaggressions being tailed in the mall vicarious trauma watching videos it can be that we've been physically literally attacked it could be that it's just historical trauma as a you know as an african-american just the whole legacy of slavery it can be transgenerational things that that's passed down stories that are down through generations and it can be gaslighting there's another one where we're experiencing something and we're not validated we're told that's not what we're saying that's not what's happening and so I would say the difference is that with racial trauma it is it's insidious and it's ongoing and it's layered and it's compounded and in that way it's very different because we are constantly bombarded by this and and it constantly affects our emotions and our bodies that is extremely extremely helpful when you talk about the effects on our now bodies I couldn't help but think about the fact that we're constantly seeing these images as I mentioned earlier how does that affect us because I was talking to some money the other day and I was like it can't be healthy for us to constantly watch someone die and it's not just you see at one time it is as you saw about and you'll see it's a consistent visual that you've seen whether you see the pictures in the latest murder of George boy you see the pictures cop with his foot on on George's neck so if you don't see the video reach to the image and then you know that on my armory and the other countless victims seeing those horrific pictures and images how is that affecting that event okay yeah the onslaught of those images is it's not healthy and the the part that's really difficult is that we have to be careful about how much we ingest a bit but at the same time we can't deny that that's a reality the the problem in all of this is that we do experience vicarious trauma from watching that and it taps into some really you know whether it's recent incidents that we've experienced within our family line it's triggering in a way that and I've had so many conversations and I've seen online as well as just with that it is really causing all sorts of emotions to surface anger and just a sense of depression for some it's just this complacency or just kind of giving up or rage and what happens over time is that you know in the with these incidents we're getting these kind of meta communications where when we see an image like that there was something that's being communicated and in James cone talked about that in the cross of the lynching tree Bryan Stevenson talks about that with the whole there was a lynching memorial and and when we think about even Christ and you know is being crucified on a hill like there are messages that are being sent and and those messages are often that beast be afraid you don't belong here you're you know your unwanted you're not worthy God has abandoned you there are all sorts of messages and some of them are individual to some of us but then collectively these messages are coming across and we've got to address the messages because they do damage to our minds and to our bodies as you were just talking about how it affects our view of God when we have words from Allah I was just having the conversation yesterday and the person was trying to untangle my evangelical non-responsive from God's responses yeah and it really are sent from the racial trauma so those things God's voice and white evangelical voices that got intertwined so when white evangelicals were silent they thought like God was silent how do we untangle that or help people untangle that yeah I really believe that part of the fundamental pieces that we do have to have a sense of what is the word saying what does God say what is what it's guards heart or his people you know and for people in general I'm Jesus came to redeem humanity and to save us from our sin and that was everybody and but what is scripture specifically say about God's love for his children I think that sometimes because we don't we don't we're not reading the word we we are looking at these external we're looking at the evangelical church and one thing and it might Lisa of saying okay it's time to step up and so you actually live in line with what actually the word says but I think that we're gonna have to do the work of untangling and that's gonna have to happen within the churches it's gonna have to happen one-on-one with people just sharing the truth of the gospel and the truth of our story and in our perspective around where is God in the midst of of trauma in trial and also just history historically just the importance of faith and in the black community that it can't be denied that faith is what carried us through and and so we've got to share those stories with our young ones particularly who and old ones who are now questioning whether God does or at least you know what they can kind of identify or they slot into this box that that's white Jesus and a white man's religion when in fact it's not that is extremely extremely helpful what other ways we do suggest that we plant we that are helpful in processing racial trauma that you haven't already shared what do you think will be helpful people you know one of the things I think is really important is that we're honest about how we feel and I think that we oftentimes because of our history we've had to be silenced rather so silence meant survival for us or our ancestors and so some of us are still silent we're not sharing what is actually going on in our and then we also have within the black community a reluctance to go there it is particularly about emotional issues and mental illness mental illness and more and more where we're starting to really step into that and to being honest with ourselves with other people bringing them in so we're not alone and we're not isolated and also honest in our relationship with God so the first part would be that is to be honest to look at how are the ways in which I as an individual I respond to racial trauma you know do I go to the places just denying it like I don't want to deal with it so let me ignore it or downplay it and and I understand that partly you know we've had to continue to work continue to raise our families and in the midst of such horrific times and so there is a need to kind of pull back a bit and to regroup and rest but that that permanent state of denial is not a healthy one because it it is doing damage to our bodies another one is just you know we're either folding into a place of shame or we're fighting like aggressively fighting in a way that is is not productive I believe that we do need to fight we do need to fight stomach racism and oppression absolutely but if we're in this place of rage all the time that does damage just damage to our minds and to our hearts we our body is not meant to contain massive amounts of toxic emotions you know although it's understandable that we're angry and I have to say that this you know this past two weeks I think probably the last four years I've spent my share of you know crying out to God and being angry and being sad and all the things that I'm talking to talking about I get and you know and then there are some others who just want to forfeit everything or you whether is coming to the places I've heard a lot of people saying I'm tired and I'm tired as well but if tiredness means sit down and just give up that's that's not going to really change anything and if if forfeiting means that you know we forfeit our connection to the community and then we become like the Talking Heads for white supremacy that is a serious problem so we've got to look at what how are we responding to trauma being honest about it and then bringing other people into it bringing God into that conversation bringing other people into the conversation and and just being aware of where am I on any given day you know the as you we said it in the you know the beginning of this oftentimes there are videos there are Facebook Twitter feed you know posts that really are triggering and so being really aware of what am I feeling what am I thinking emotionally taking my temperature and and because of the climate that we're in right now we've got to do that on a regular basis and then I think it's also important to remember because we can feel like nothing is happening nothing has ever happened like there's been no movement for black folk and and yet remembering what you know what our ancestors have gone through that journey and God in persevering and saving us and walking with us through some really difficult painful horrific experiences and yet in the midst of that there really has been you know the birth of children and weddings and celebrations and life it's all what God has done what he is doing right now in our lives and what is what is it that he's promised to do what are those promises that we really can hold on to this extremely helpful and I love bringing God into the conversation because I often times I think that we aren't comfortable saying it but we are are rates a bulk of our rate is directed a got yeah because he is all-knowing all-wise all-powerful and he he's all loving so we make the assumptions about what he's supposed to do and the time frame in which he supposed to do it and what he allows and so it's kind of like if you're lounges sometimes people may get good run of it because we could see them but I'm ultimate anger lies with what we expect from God and being okay with voicing your frustration and rage and anger to him I think I bet hopeful element to it processing this trauma in this racial trauma this unique to the black-white in America exactly yeah I would definitely agree you know I think too that you know the whole issue around lamenting is really essential and this is an important part of that you know realizing that God wants relationship with us and so he wants authenticity you want to know what what are we really feeling and and he can handle our hard emotions and I always go to the songs as just there are great examples there of King David wrestling with God and being blunt and with God and the fact that he doesn't understand it's like why are the wicked prospering I don't get it like what are you doing and there are several like sunshine Roz book prophetic lament there's a theologian Emanuel cuts along gay who's wrote he wrote about lament as a way of just seeing and standing and wrestling and arguing with God and and as a way of just hoping in the midst ruin and that's the the kind of wrestling in process that God welcomes with us and and in that way and I believe that even in that wrestling is a form of that I engage in those listening prayer just listening I'm listening as I'm reading scripture listening what is God saying to me in Scripture in prayer listening not just talking to God but listening and and even listening around what what is he doing what is it that he wants to do in and through me in the midst of this really really difficult time that's extremely extremely helpful what are the pitfalls when missing or using social media as a platform to grieve or to express frustration does that reach on the part of it because you're you know I always like to think when I'm really really angry or frustrated I've read to safe spaces yeah one of the reason I don't like to run to social media is because you have people who aren't in sympathy or emotion that will comment and we to me we traumatized if is social media faith-based what are some ways that we can use it so we won't reach our macaque back though right well in a way I feel like it does serve a purpose in that we come to see that these experiences are not just ours you know like eyes an individual and experiencing trauma around what has happened over the last two weeks there are other people who are feeling the same way so there is a sense of I'm not alone there are other people who are experiencing that however it can become too much if if all it is is that there's just constantly just a layering of images and comments about how angry people are and I get that there there has to be a place where we can take that grief and I agree with you safe in a safe space where we can actually process it and get people's real presence because social media can can create kind of an honor fistula artificial environment for us and and I know that not everybody has that but there are people that they can go to so I understand that but to the degree that we can who are those flesh-and-blood people that we can actually sit down with and cry with who can you know surround us like hands pray on pray for us and that that's that's absolutely important because we can come away feeling you traumatized if we're constantly looping that and we have you know we have evidence that whether it's Twitter social other social media formats like Facebook etc like there are algorithms they we end up seeing the things that we end up clicking on so we're clicking on these videos and we see more of that and more of that and now I'm not denying or saying that we should know about those things we should but the whole thing going back to them all taking your temperature if you're feeling in a place where you're despairing and you feel like you're just you know going on a downward spiral it's time to take a break and just take a break from it breathe really look at where where are the places where you can pour into your life you know are you eating well are you getting out there and walking where is God you know I'm able to worship are you able to rejoice or celebrations a part of of your life you know because God is at work and and so taking that time away resting sleeping absolutely important it's not sustainable to be on social media 25 or seven because yes definitely one thing that I think many people are wrestling with in this space where our white brothers and sisters aren't necessarily as vocal and there are some that are waking up to like okay I need to be vocal and speaking out what does that process look like when engaging that conversation because I think many people are struggling with the whole concept of reconciliation or racial reconciliation being passive thinking like you know many people especially in when we do it we're doing apologetic in the urban context on black spaces thinking that Christians push on forgiveness and it's not forgiveness that in their mind just as any forgiveness can't live in the same space that they've seen forgiveness being used as a tool of manipulation with it it has historically many people use it that way yeah and so oftentimes the way our brain works is people if something's been misused the first thing we think is okay we don't need to engage in that way at all so it's an overcorrection and the jettison of things that may be helpful is going to baby out with the bathwater how can we strike that balance and understanding justice and forgiveness and reconciliation yeah I I think that obviously forgiveness is a you know a command it's command in Scripture and even beyond Scripture the reality is you we cannot hold on time forgive us you know it's like drinking poison expecting the other person to die it's us so we're we hold we hold unforgiveness it affects us emotionally and physically that is the reality of it and scripture says that we're commanded to forgive and yet forgiveness is a point or an action but it's also a process and that it's not a one-off it's not a in many cases it takes weeks months years to actually get to the place where we can then look at that person the perpetrator and feel not as triggered or as upset and we feel like you know what I really have released this I've totally my hands are totally open I've released it I don't have any I'm not holding onto anything and and so and that's good I I'm always concerned about public immediate forgiveness like I understand for some people's the need to do that particularly a very high-profile incidents but my concern is mostly out of what happens with that it does feel like forgiveness becomes weaponized so that anyone who isn't there yet is you know they they whatever they need to get saved or there's something that something wrong with that and I feel that in some ways the weaponizing causes us not to and white folk particularly not to really look at what happened and the damage that was done and so yes we are to forgive but giving someone is not reconciliation reconciliation is about relationship and so the nature of the relationship means that there's a commitment to repair and that means I'm gonna stop doing what I was doing so that's that's the second part isn't just I forgive you and you're like yes thank you know it disrepair and so repairing the damage that was done means looking at how you know my privilege of this person the privilege of a white person how that has done damage and how it has done damage as a nation and as an individual as a white person how how can I use my privilege to repair some of the damage that was done and so the step beyond reconciliation or forgiveness and reconciliation is the repair part and just the that's when you get to the place of authentic relationship and and so we're seeing little bits and pieces of this where there are institutions that were built on you know the bodies of black men and women who have said you know what yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna own this you know and whether there are some churches there's some universities and they're like okay where we need to repair the damage we're not just gonna watch each other's feet sing Kumbaya and then we walk in the you know we walk into the sunset with our privilege it's if I'm serious about reconciliation then I want for my brother and sister exactly what I have that is extremely extremely helpful and I love how you make that distinction about forgiveness and repair and reconciliation in relationship and you know being the person it was when a person forgives a person that doesn't mean they don't still call the authorities if illegal activity is present and I think people think you know if I forgive this person they won't I won't get justice but what part of it oh it's a comprehensive thing and so I thank you just about that whole justice thing is that you know when God says you know a vengeance is mine saith the Lord I will repay like ultimately he is going to be paying we're holding unforgiveness were saying I'm gonna do it or I'm gonna do it in my particular way and and I believe that we can definitely pursue justice and we can also pray that the Lord will meet justice through whether it's the courts whether it's individually in terms of restorative justice with that person but we take our you know hands off of it in our control of this is what it has to look like and I am strongly strongly Pro justice and really wanting to to see that and particularly we're if we're going to have authentic relationship going forward and there's going to be true reconciliation justice has to be a part of this yeah and I think that's so vital and I think it's so cool to have you know like you say a balanced view of it because because our judicial system it's so broken absolutely yeah there's a lot of justice we want to see here on yeah that's just the reality yeah we can push forward but there are some people who died and lynched our ancestors and got away quote-unquote scot-free on her so we have to believe that justice isn't just here on earth it's something that transcends just this world that God the ultimate judge will vindicate justice or else we have no hope if our if our move or our understanding of justice is yes just as the in the here and now then that is such a hopeless to me view because there's so many people who lived evil lives without repentance that just get away scot-free so if I have any kind of hope for exist god I must believe that justice isn't just about the here and now but it has to transcend this world so I think it's important to like that you said strike that balance because we are going to see justice I mean we're gonna fight for justice here as much as we can but there are some people who've already escaped us allegiances and there are some people into here now that will escape it because of the broken system and we're we're not able to execute it perfectly so that's why we have to have our hope in the right discharge some will vindicate us on that on that grade back what other things that any other thing you want to share this pool for any last box one on this topic of racial trauma that you think is important for audience well you know we touched on the issue of you know what are the things that we need to do in just sold here is really important going forward you know the reality is that you know racism is here it's baked into America and so we're and it's not just America it's around the world but how do we thrive and in while we're actively engaging in you know tearing down dismantling systems of oppression and I have that that balance between the two and so we've got to take Seoul here really really seriously you know what are the ways and the things really have historically have helped our people to to survive in the midst of that and I think one thing is a just well there was a sense of community of a real collective coming around one another and not just around racism but around life and thriving and pursuing pursuing life together and and you know the whole village raising a child or whatever like I know growing up when I was younger that it was a part of that in our community that we were connected to one another and so we had neighbors who could speak into that you know if we were doing something we should have been doing you know but they were also our champions and so and I feel like we need to go back to some things that we've lost the church was essential it was was like our bedrock and there was some who look at the black church particularly and say you know put the black eye I firmly believe that we survived because of the church because that was our place to go where we knew we were welcomed we were loved we were respected it was in yeah I'm not gonna say all black dresses are perfect but it was a place for us to feel that we're seen and known in a very hot otherwise hostile environment and so it's looking at those things that worked with our ancestors collectively but also within our families what has been helpful what has worked and from as an individual what has helped to you what has helped you to get quiet to heal to rest to restore what is it that you need because there are things that we know that that really feed us and you know yes it should be the word and worship but what else is it is it dance is it is it music is it journaling what are some of those things that really help us to stand firm and to continue to walk this out and so being really intentional about that and committing I'm not gonna numb out I'm not gonna run to my addictions I'm not gonna deny it I'm going to own that that's the reality and then I'm gonna go to the Lord I'm gonna invite other people around me and we're gonna walk this out together that's how cool I was thought of one more question that I want to actually be how proper one more yeah sure okay um I was just thinking and I know some of our white brothers are listening and they genuinely want to know how can I care for my black brothers and sisters during this time and I think there is there is sometimes two extremes people don't do they just reach out to all their black friends randomly and be like you know I'm so sorry and they just come it comes out of nowhere everywhere like it it becomes like just a weird thing were you treating like how do I engage black people like weird animals in a zoo that you have to like give special attention to then you have people that just go to the other extreme and don't say anything at all what is the balance they hope like one don't be weird you're also don't be acting what it is how can what would you advise them to do you know what I think that just being being a presence so it is maybe just letting me your friend know that if they want to talk that you're available to talk and to hear them to listen rather rather than you're talking you're there to listen if you're just there to listen and to be a presence with them and if they would like you to pray asking them to take the lead in terms of what it is that they need in this moment so if your friend comes back and no I can't talk right accept that reality now or I don't want to talk at all or I definitely don't want to try to educate you on on how you need to minister to me right now so I was a one is being a presence but also doing your home boom your homework where are you we're on and I think that at this point and people and you know for for black folk and I mean I'm not gonna speak for everybody but I know for me that the I'm sorry gets old it just gets old after a while and that like I want to know that my friends care but I also want to know what are they gonna do about it and I want prayer but I also want to know what they're gonna do about it you know cuz faith without works is dead so I I want both of that and but I also want to just say let your friend take the lead on that if your friend has some ideas of ways in which you can assist or suggestions about how you can come alongside and you can engage in activism whether it's signing a petition whether it's going to a protest whether it is praying whatever it is ask your friend that is it but is extremely extremely helpful and I think most a lot of people are tired of hearing that I'm sorry and I always challenge people to think about like when you're hurt I've got a racism what did wet frustrate you and often times they'll be frustrated about hearing the repeated I'm sorry he's in a romantic relationship they're like I don't want you to keep being I'm sorry it's the actions I still want to be the same and so it's like take that what you learned over there and apply it consideration ship if it's different it's a different type of relationship but the dynamics of how emotions work are very similar and so if you understand the frustration then your romantic situation in your marriage you don't want to hear I'm tired over and over again or just someone just making an empty empty statement then we don't want to hear it easy thank you thank you so much for your time so how can people get your your book so you can go on IV press so I the press calm that's my publisher University Press you can buy it there you can truth table is now running a discount special all 40% off so you can visit them obviously it's an Amazon but I'm shy away hearts and minds books is another one which is a smaller outfit so I would suggest those three and it's available an audiobook a literal book and also an e-book format awful well thank you d are you on social media or what are your handle so it's C otherwise ro it's in everyone like Facebook Twitter Instagram it's the same thing yeah thank you so so so much for being with us and thank you for watching another episode due to return jetpack cache and whether you could get rich along through eyes of color you can become a monthly partner or you can take our online course through our color all can be done at Juicery project.org we thank you for being with us again and remember here the juicer project we're helping you to know what you believe and why doctor [Music] [Music]

Channel: Jude 3 Project

Views: 2,297

Rating: 4.9452057 out of 5

Keywords: George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery, racial trauma, black lives matter, sheila wise rowe, justice, forgiveness, riots

Id: -J2yLHyPlQk

Length: 41min 14sec (2474 seconds)

Published: Sat May 30 2020