Too Woke for Church? | Sho Baraka

the Joker got in the past he was in the pulpit and he was like I want you to turn in your Bible Isaiah he says you see the Bible says this I want you to scratch that out and put distance and that's when I knew that was the last time I met you well thank you for watching another episode of the Jew 3 project podcast as always I'm your host Lisa feels the founder of the g3 project and today I'm joined by a very special guest he's no stranger to the g3 project the man the myth the legend mister and Micheaux bracha lewis what the what the pause so first let's start off by I feel like I I need some equity in this organization because this is probably my fourth time our fifth time I don't know just depending on if we count the tour so from now on I need to be introduced as co-host and co-founding member of Duty project let's go I've been using you for your celebrity status that's on a family long you there's much better options out there if you want to you want to like you know swing around the d-level celebrity pool in come on come to yeah I'm happy to show today without some turquoise shoes I've seen him is over crying lately for my fashion first of all my fashion is inspired by the Lord so let's talk about that that's what we need to have an apologetics of fashion fashion apologetics and now definitely will lead that sorry still huh well for those who don't know who you are he give them just a little bit of background about you sir yes I am my name is a Michel Baraka some people call me show Baraka artist mostly known as an artist communicator some people say thought leader curator whatever been performing for about ten years now as an apartheid the same time started to be somewhat of a I guess you can say a legitimate voice in certain spaces when it comes to issues of justice race and creativity and I've started a couple of organizations one is the social political organization called the ad campaign with two wonderful brothers and started a site called fourth District where we try to invite conscious culture to to address issues in current events politics arts everything whole gambit from from a conscious Christian perspective and so there's a lot of things that are in the pipe hopefully I'll be an author sometime soon um I want to be smart like you so I'm thinking about going back to school and pursuing some graduate and PhD work so yeah there's a there's a list of things that people can call me but one thing you can't call me as a bad dresser and apparently you're the new co-founder of g30 yeah there we go and I'm also a co-founder of go3 project which I am so excited about the work we're doing what they were that we talked about in Philly on the plane after my feet got hijacked not hot oh yes the dig at hijack hijack is a very intense word obviously but yes you got you got swindled out of your seizure it was quite funny and swindled out of my window seat but that's another story for another time we had a conversation about church attendance well one of the conversations we had was about church attendance and this whole concept of being to work for church because I'm noticing I cheated last week I'm noticing that a lot of thought leaders and Christian artists don't attend church regularly and one of the reasons that I'm seeing amongst Blackmon owners not just thought leaders it's being to work for church so they first started in the black church they were like man this isn't stimulating me intellectually it's not theologically robust so they left went to a white evangelical church and was like oh these folks are racist then they went to nah I don't want to meet with the right bride no but they've they felt like they weren't addressing issues that were relevant to them and then they went to a multi-ethnic church and now it's like it's just too difficult to get people to understand my perspective so I'm just not going to church at all I'm just podcast my favorite scholars and I'll just cut that yeah yeah which is interesting it's because you remember when we were in Daytona BC BC you and a guy came in was like this is the your podcast is what I watch cuz I'm really not going to church yeah and I gave my mom my type to do three and I was just like supplement they help equip slam so people actually do that and so what do you think what are your thoughts on that show it's so much and let me first say that I understand that is that is a lot of my story of my and my narrative I came to know Lord in college and I went to a I mean a a backwoods shouting Pentecostal type church right it was a it was technically it was a Missionary Baptist Church but we would run around we would speak in tongues we were we had a good time in that church and but there were times when I felt like the pastor wasn't faithful to the teaching of the scriptures in a way that even though I wasn't this mature Christian I you know I would consider myself well-read I was a college students and we were in the practice of understanding how to read learn and espouse and just our just died set deep thought right and I felt like this pastor was appealing more to our emotional as you know being rather than engaging us on why we should know God right and why we should deeply understand who God is and what the story of God means and so for me I left that church the one thing this Joker got into pastor he was in the pulpit and he was I don't you turn in your Bible to Isaiah he says he see the Bible says this I want you to scratch that out and put this there and that's when I knew that was the last time I was gonna venture Wow okay and so I left that church and went to another church which was a white church and that church immediately stimulated my intellectualism but it lacked any kind of emotion so the the kind of running thought I had it was it's easy to be emotional and not have a real spiritual exploit you know to be spiritual but and not know God but I feel like it's hard to know God and not be spiritual and not to have an emotion attached to it right and so I felt like this church lacked the actual relational capacity that God wants with us and how he deeply is concerned with how we emote about him and so amongst that there were other parts of who I was that just wasn't being addressed or things that I felt like God cared about that what being touched on and so that put me in this pendulum swing so basically what what I would say to the question is I've experienced that and I understand it but I think it comes from a couple of misconceptions one is historically when you talk about the black church the black church hasn't always been this emotional tool just to assuage our emotional like our emotional engine right I think Carter G Woodson talks about it in the mis-education a Negro and a lot of his journal of the Christian history he talks about how there were a lot of churches especially in the Caribbean part of the world that kind of influenced a lot of American thought that was high church that really was very academic even if you think about a lot of your African Anglican churches and Episcopalian churches a lot of those churches are very high church they look their little like their liturgy is is very kind of Orthodox in a sense and so there is a capacity for the intellectual stimulation the problem is is as you go through history a lot of those churches were seeing inadequate with reaching the the context of the late 1800s in the early nineteen hundreds because you got a bunch of people who are Mis educated right who are uneducated so this part of his book is like you got these educated clergy people who are coming back down to the south and they're not adequately able to reach their context right you who needs to learn French and Latin and Greek and Hebrew when they can't even understand how to put together a subject and a predicate right so that was part of their and then you get lumped into this idea of of selling out and and and trying to assimilate into my culture well then those are the flip side of that where you have white evangelicalism that didn't allow black people to integrate into their seminaries and their institutions and then part of Western also talks about how a lot of your white southern missionaries because they couldn't reach the aristocratic Society in white culture what they will go to the slave communities are the poor black communities and preach these revivals because they knew that at least they can get them with their emotionalism so it's a very layered and nuanced conversation and so it hasn't always been this just well the black churches is this inner the white church is that and even today I think there's it's a lot more layered and so but it all stimulates from I think from this need to feel like we identify ourselves in opposition to what whiteness is and that's that's been always my problem if the white church says this is what is the heart of God then this is what we seek right and I think that's quite problematic and I think there is a lot and I and I and I I look back through Christian history especially American Christian history and there are people who experience God in a more existential way they're calling like the jury in the LEAs and in Sojourner Truth and Absalom Jones is right but then you also have the very educated and theologically driven Lamia Haynes's and the Richard climate Cinna and when a Francis Grimm Keys who were Presbyterians and people who even at some point in time pastored white churches so we have a dynamic history so that's one thing I we always we have the posture is that our history is not is more fluid than we like to think it is and the problem is is in society and not just black society in society and we just always work in binaries we say it's either left or it's right you know I'm saying charismatic or you know except you know and so there is this the synthesis that we can have and I think often times we just pendulum swing and when we just want something and that's the one thing that's been grateful for my soul which define in black history people who've had nuance and who've been layered who understood that they need to preach the justice and they need to speak to the emotion of the felt knee while at the same time having a high regard of Scripture so and I think the more we get to that the more we understand our history and we don't allow our history to be defined by other this right or white no white folks or the perception of the zero-sum mentality will find more pastors today who will begin to wrestle with that dimension of our that that uh who could deconstruct the polarization of saying I have to fit this or fit that what we could do both and I think just shout out to frequency conference I think the frequency conference where we went in Philadelphia was a great catalyzation for that even though other institutions have been doing that kind of like the DeWitt conference the Samuel DeWitt and and other folks like your the Evie Hills who have passed away your Tom Skinner's people in history but I will say the frequency conference is a new movement I think is a that excites me about hi holding the scriptures in high esteem while at the same time keeping the historical aesthetic of the black church I know I talked a long time you gotta you don't have to shut me down and I like the fact that you pointed out that there's so many different with in black churches there's black church there's so many different types of black churches mints when she was on and she talked about that we should say black churches and not the black church because anything narratives that there's one type of church absolutely I think when we talk about the black church white church a multi-ethnic churches when we tend to have bad experiences in a place that's predominantly one race we say well black churches are like this and it's like well you know the black churches like this because you saw five TV preachers that were one way and they all live in different parts of the u.s. look and 2000 in Jacksonville alone where I met it's 2000 charges over 2000 churches in Jacksonville so you can't say that these five TV preachers paint the picture of churches that's just not that's not right right I think and won't do a good job of that like creating this caricature of the black like what people especially welcomed non-christian folks right they talk about you get you yeah what's the boy's name Umar Johnson's who get it good up there and they paint this character of the black church and they said a black church ain't that nothing for the black community and you're sitting there like are you serious right now and but it's easy because if you put in your mind like that one teller evangelist who may seem to be exploited in a particular community didn't yes the argument makes sense right but the same thing can be said about that particularly contingency of black conscious movements who seem to be exploiting their communities as well who want to raise money for schools who want to raise money for these particular institutions but it seems to be a bunch of corrupt practices that are happening around them so we could say man people who are outside the church and people who are in a black conscious community ain't doing that all they're doing exploiting just because I take one example and I create this character about you that's that's a very unfair assessment and I think that's part of our problem with society we we we just we build characters around one particular individual and then we make that gospel and in addition to caricature we talked about this when I was in Atlanta with the ant campaign the bitterness and the inability reconcile relationships so we create a pattern where we leave black churches without talking to leadership and without understanding the process of change in churches and like what they won't listen to me well you only been the Christian in one year the ology understanding and you want the whole church to change based on your new revelation website don't work like that you have no equity in the church you've not done anything there but critique you don't come to Bible study you just come in service and so there's no equity there for you to implement change any like oh they not open to change well they're not open to change from you because you haven't built equity in the turbulent people have equity and if they won't listen but in a lot of cases I've seen people don't have equity in the ministry and want to make the leadership make a shift based on their their understanding of Scripture and that's not realistic and then you go to a white church and then don't build equity there or try to build equity and then leave the same way you left the black church and so you're just developing a real a healthy way to to exit situations to exit organizations and you have a lot of maybe you have a lot of truth but that truth also has a lot of bitterness attached to it absolutely Thanks you have unrealistic expectations for change absolutely yeah I think you get nail on a head I think anytime you make decisions out of business bitterness and anger you're prone to mix and terrible decisions I've learned so much in a recent like five or six months from reading I'm doing a project that has a lot to do around the civil rights movement and and I'll be making a nice one what that project is soon and I hope that you hope promote it but one of the things that one of the things about non-violence right that is so amazing to me is this idea we're not just nonviolent in action we're nonviolent and posture like we're nonviolent and our thought process the goal is not to exchange power the goal is reconciliation and the problem is is reconciliation seems like a cowardice are a weak word to a lot of people right especially people who are prone to get their activism from secular humanists because the goal from secular humanists is I want what's best for me like the goal is to is to obtain as much influence Authority in power for myself because I feel like I am the arbitrator of what is all good and right the gospel doesn't give us that kind of leeway the gospel doesn't give us that kind of platform in which to operate it gives us the platform to operate out of self denial out of kind of sacrifice right and so in that what we're saying is though you are my enemy the goal is not to obliterate you the goal is to reconcile and I love one of my favorite quotes is from my brother John Oh who's a pastor here in Atlanta he says God doesn't desire cease fires he desires to make enemies family right is that not the gospel the goal is to take people from making them enemies to family and if you if you operate in bitterness and hate you never desire to resolve conflict right and so the civil rights movement are a lot of people within the civil rights movement especially leadership within the SCLC their posture was we're gonna be nonviolent not only an action but we're gonna be nonviolent in our ideology in a sense that we're trying to instill hope into people an aspiration because if all we do is if we operate out I hate oh I'm telling you that's a it's that's a poisonous thing hate is it's not only something that is deadly to other people it's deadly to you and so as long as this idea that captives to have hope it keeps slaves from okay it keeps captives are they oppressed from feeling like slaves and so as long I have hope there's no there's no bondage that can keep me from seeing an end goal that is beautiful in a lot of gospel and so I think it's important for thought leaders and activists today to be critical I think it's important for them to challenge to create dissonance at moments that's one thing about the nonviolent movement is that we're not just gonna be passive we're gonna be active we're gonna create dissonance like we're gonna promote tension like the whole idea is that I'm gonna I'm gonna get in your space I'm gonna let you know that there's something wrong with this this is not to clean them this is not the beloved community in which you know I'm saying that we believe God has promoted so we're creating tension we're gonna let you know about like look but at the end of the day I'm creating this tension in order to create reconciliation right and I think a lot of our activism today is to create tension to create dissonance but for the purposes of bringing guilt and leaving it there and in and backpedaling and that's not the that's not the final product the product is to bring guilt to bring shame but shame that leads to a reconciliation mm-hmm yeah we talked about church attendance do you think people are looking for things that don't exist when they when they're looking for church attendance they're looking for yo if I can be completely honest right now it would be completely transparent I love my church blue for in churches church I go to in Atlanta I love it is it the ideal church absolutely not my brother is a great I think he's a really great leader I think we've through our 10-year tenure do our 10 year existence we've had great communicators and great leaders people who went on to plant churches in New York and Lana Miami etc Center right but is it do I have great deep frustrations with my church almost every Sunday absolutely do I think about leaving my church a lot absolutely but then where am I gonna go gonna go somewhere where I'm gonna find new problems and I may be like yo Joe problems cuz at least I knew how to deal with those old problems right and that's I think there's this fantasy we exist with the Christianity and it's in its the market it's the another market it's the uh well it is how we treat the marketplace its consumerism right the consumerism of American is infiltrating and that's part of the Christian code the capitalistic Christian culture has infiltrated with in societies like well if I don't like this I'll just move on to the next job or if I don't like your product I'll just go buy it from someone else well we've created this idealism within even Christians that well if I don't like the way you preach then I'll just go if I don't like the way you sir and I don't think we've developed any kind of real muscles with self self perseverance and that's how first events us self-denial long-suffering and conflict resolution because people could just leave a situation and go to something better right so yeah I don't I don't know it doesn't exist like I don't know what church you're gonna go to but that church doesn't exist it works perfect yeah it's funny because I'm like I don't think people want to go to heaven come on Oh like church people they don't we wait row we spend so much time exalting and praising sec like the non-christians for the work they do in this to justice space people it seems so fashionable now to like don't get me wrong I've always I've done this to some degree I love the James Baldwin's of the world and and the bell hooks I listen I'll read these folks and out I know that these folks have a lot to offer right but at the same time the one thing that I didn't do is are at least you know what I mean let me try to be humble at least the one thing I'm learning now and I'd hope that I've been consistent with in the past is while I love the secular thought and thinker like people who have openly said that they're not Christian I've also said you know what we also have to show honor to the brothers and sisters of the faith you know I mean and hold tightly to the scripture and and recognize just as much as James Baldwin offers some great solutions to issues he's also given some very ridiculous solutions and a lot of his thought is not healthy in the same way that I can say man these Christian thinkers and leaders have given some great healthy examples of what it looks like to bring the kingdom of God here on earth they've also been done and says some very ridiculous things but I don't see that balance in today's society it's today's activists and work and that's why the walk movement is somewhat so it's so self-righteous in a sense that it's it it it perpetuates this idea that I know what's best like you know I mean like and it's so interesting that it pokes fun at people who are well yeah so anyway I just get on these rampages because this whole frustrates me but I will say this is that it interests it's very interesting how oftentimes I find this applauding people who are antagonizing to the Christian faith and who are antagonizing to the church while at the same time these folks who praise them offer no real solution and to your point I have no real equity right I said this on one of my shows I got something to say and if you don't watch it another shameless plug that a lot of these folks especially some Christian folks just found out they were black two weeks ago because they took some some human some human knows some sexuality and in sociology class right in college and so but they don't really have any equity in the black community they don't go to black colleges they don't go to black churches they don't live in black communities they don't frequent black institutions and businesses and but they can criticize everything about whiteness they can criticize everything about the black church but they really don't have any real equity and anybody can throw you know bombs from a distance my thing is like how do you get in the midst of things to create change and build up equity in it write something and that balance is so crucial and I think what I'm seeing that I think it's problematic for black evangelicalism is in this space t quite evangelicalism they paint the black church in a perfect light and that's dangerous because there's problem in every in every sect so one of the reasons that I think I'm able to maintain this balance it's because I have to enter white spaces where I'm like what the heck er door but then I also who next we got me a tall black space I'm like what the heck are we doing so I don't have a really realistic picture of when you're out of spaces sometimes you can paint paint spaces in a way that's not just not realistic absolutely like they're issues in in multi-ethnic spaces in white spaces in black spaces so don't be unrealistic with your expectations critique them and and and do the the things that are important you know create you know ask some questions but don't think you're gonna leave one space and another space it's gonna be perfect that's just okay it just doesn't exist and and sometimes we're looking what we're frustrated with and one space is the answer we're the answer to the problem that we solve in that space we oftentimes don't have the patience to be the answer that's good that's good my brother says my brother died he says hold on I'm saying hide out in homogeneous spaces and there's truth in that I do think that's the reason why cultural exchange is important there's a reason why understanding and seeing color is quite important is because the things that white people may be able to I bring entering into context that are that you don't regularly exist in helps so much it just does like the more I hang around white people like the other day I just went to I went to I went to I was at Charlottesville Virginia last week Lynchburg I used to drive through I'll okay there we go so you know after the whole invented Charlottesville somebody's like hey man what's and I'm like but I go there and I'm having dinner with my brother Greg dr. Greg Thompson wonderful - oh man I let his brother um white gentleman and he's like okay dinner he's like what was for dinner hey hopefully this is this is a you don't have any you know how many problems we'll be sharing this but they do his family does this thing where they have like Brants crackers they have like this what do you call it like a smorgasbord like a palate but anyway they pull out this board and they do like you know salami meats like different type of like cut meats crackers and cheese is like high-end quite like crackers the cheese is not like your Ritz crackers right grapes almonds like olives and that's dinner and they just like you know and when he first told me about that I was like no salami and crackers and bread and olives for dinner like that but when I did it I was like this is amazing this is great and thank you for inviting me into your world that's reconciliation because guess what's happening I'm taking this to my house and one day we gonna do this i'ma break out some some meat some breads some olives some almonds and we're just gonna have this for dinner hey my kids but not complain because this is what when I when we put some on the table you don't eat it but that's the kind of thing that you when you when you're in different kind of context you learn and you appreciate that's I'm like yo this will forever change in my life and I think that's beautiful shoutout to dr. Greg Thompson and I know we run it out of time I don't want to keep you long but why do you think so many Christian thought leaders and artists don't attend church yeah I think that's a I think that's it so I had that central one I think the the greater your platform gets the you know the more people are pulling you right and that creates two problems one you're on the road often and that means you're away from your local context whether that be small groups whether that be whatever whatever whatever role that you play in that church you're probably gonna have to you're gonna happen you're gonna do that less because you're traveling you're on the road the other thing is that you create a platform and so people want to hear you more I think that feeds into the ego of the artist in the platform leader and they feel like they should have more more say and leverage in a church then they probably have and I think that creates some problems for the leadership because then they either feel like they have to they have to comply with this individual or they have to hold their ground like well no like I mean just because you're popular you may be more popular than me or us as a leadership doesn't mean that you're gonna have more power like and I think sometimes that leads the artists or the platform leader to be like well I'll just go to another place where I can have influence without having real equity to the church or very little equity in the church and I saw that in my own life when I was touring and traveling a lot maybe four or five years ago I would talk about the my commitment to the local church but I was never there and the reality is is that it's very problematic and this is where true Authority tests you because even though you're more popular you can't pimp or hijack the church for your own personal benefit and I think this is part of the the tension that you have to come to as a leader or as a as a platform leader as like how how much do actually believe of the gospel even though I'm popular even though I have this influence of power I still want to submit it to my church and say that I'm not sure I'm at the service of the leadership because I truly trust and believe in you and the problem is is when people get to feed your ego the same leaders who you could trust four years ago you probably don't trust now because you start to believe you know hype and that leadership hasn't changed it's just you have changed and things that you believe have changed and rather than hijacking that what you should do is have real strategic institutional conversations with those people and still if be submitted unto them I mean there's a lot of things that I believe that my church doesn't hold but I'm trying to be submissive in a way that is honoring unto the Lord and to the people who served me because they helped me get to this space that I'm in I'm at now and just because I'm my platform may be bigger than some of them doesn't mean that I have the audacity I shouldn't have the audacity to say you know what because I've developed these new thoughts and ideas about the faith you guys should you guys should be you guys should comply to me you know so I think it just takes a lot of and it's just an humility of the church as well the leaders to recognize that should we listen should we hope to have an open door policy and that's and I do find that a lot of church leaders do are prideful in a sense that they push against leaders feeling like well Jim probably you gonna tell me what to do and that's a that's a problem in itself so I think pastors need to understand that their servants as well they're not CEOs they're servants of churches mm-hmm and I think one thing to add to that as what when I've talked to artists and other thought leaders is because they hang around pastors they see the flaws well yeah sometimes when you see too much of a person you have a hard time submitting yourself to them but which is which is not a good excuse on one level because you as an individual know you're flawed and you should know your mess so you should know like well if people were giving me the time of day to listen to me on on a large level then I could give other people because I know even if they don't tell me they're a mess I know you're a mess I know you jack up all right so I get it I understand and I respect that but I do not consider your flaws and if you leader plus to you everybody probably gonna leave exactly that's why it's so funny like I get people who wanna hang out with me like they move to Atlanta they'll move to Atlanta and they'll wanna hang with me and they'll want to get to know me and I'm little and the reality is is once they do then realize I'm so I'm just not impressive I'm just not like you think that it's gonna be fun all the time we don't get deep happy and it's just like well I'm just gonna be around my kids my wife I'm just I'm a boring dude at times and I'm not impressive and then you're gonna realize like yes I have flaws I'm not gonna return your text and your calls and so and it's like yo Joe's a jerk and it's like maybe and that's one of my flaws and so we gotta we gotta understand that people we just are messed up so that's why I didn't going back to your point about churches being jacked up the same thing about people same thing with people who're you know but people make up jacked up churches that's why churches ejective the last question do you have time for one more question I do okay if a person feels like their church doesn't address the needs social issues of the day what advice would you give them oh that's a real hard question I just AM as right now I'm in the I'm in the practice of telling people to to to develop muscles of longevity in conflict resolution rather than leaving so dressed the issues like our church is a church that didn't address directly the issues of Trayvon Martin Mike Brown initially when they went down and I was deeply disappointed I was an elder at the time yeah I was elder that time for both of them and I remember walking to the older meetings being like this is a problem like this has to like we we have to address these issues and I am so disappointed that we didn't say anything on the Sunday we just aren't dealing with them and then once the complaint start rolling in once they started to see the need because this is other thing you can't just say they need to do something you have to give reasons why right you have to give very theological reasons why God cares about these issues you can't just say black lives matter and then expect you're black or you're white pastor because this is the thing people think this is just the issue in white churches no this issue in black churches to black I remember I spoke at a church not too long ago I think is this summer where they had me on a panel and the past was asking me questions and shew of repentance came up and and the pastor was like well I don't know about restitution and reparations because if we give these black folk money are they gonna do is buy Jordans and that was just sitting there and the church is like eight man pass and that's and that's the view cuz that's a view that they have of their community they see black people in a community is welfare like prostitute or welfare I've let the Turner they call it but people who decision black people right yeah these are black people right these are black people who have these views of other black people so these are issues that you're gonna have to fight through and all types of churches right and so you got to give a theological reason in the humble way where why is why is God concerned with issues of justice and its issues of social issues in our society right and be patient and learn how to communicate those in a very very humble but very strong truthful convicting way and work with those folks the thing is is that your transition to understanding justice didn't come overnight as well so other people are is gonna take people time think about process the church Christians don't believe in process we just we feel like people should be transformed overnight that's in discipleship that's in all kinds of area and so for people who haven't been aware especially white people who haven't been educated in issues of injustice who existed you know who operated in blindness because they're so far removed from injustice some of them the whole idea of the suburbs were developed to get away from the city to get away from these issues right so you got people who have been raised blind to get them to understand it overnight is gonna be its that's the work of the Holy Spirit and so be patient I don't say just another thing is I would say encourage them to read people who or differ outside of their own I guess you say ideological views in a sense get them to read people that can challenge their thought get them to read Christian thinkers who would probably process differently than them challenge them too you know hey listen to this part of this sermon read this pastor read this theologian and I would say endure I don't think leaving is gonna be the best answer for any situation it's like a marriage to me I think these are covenant I think when you talk about covenant relationships people need to learn how to deal and develop now if they're becomes very very very very unhealthy and I think today what we've developed is everything is unhealthy everything's violent because I might have disagree me that's violence I'm like that's so weak I think we developed in weak people with society today but there are certain times where something is very violent and and there's abuse whether it be mental or spiritual abuse then I do think then there may be a time for you to leave and exit that church and find churches that will promote health and so yeah but I would say just because there's disagreement doesn't mean you should leave a church so but I would say yeah hopefully that all made sense I'll just get some rambling yeah I think that's right oh I was at a doing a workshop for women's discipleship last year and there was a what can she do workshop for MS discipleship huh so I could some people wouldn't allow it so it was the pastor's wife it was a older black church and the pastor's wife was in there and it was actually another elders wife that was in there for from a New Life Church plant and the pastor's wife from from the older Missionary Baptist Church is like you know the young people don't want to be around us they just go to the new church and the younger elders wife was like you know we're really having a problem in our church with women and them knowing how to raise their children because everybody's the same age yeah it's connected from the older people and while we feel like our sermons are better and more theologically robust there's some practical stuff we don't have read before we've disconnected ourselves from my elders Brandt and I think hearing them say that was it was just something that I I see all the time and it wasn't until they said it that it really like came together in my head like we're disconnecting ourselves from parts of ourselves that we need because we're the body and we like oh I just take this and I'm so glad like when I got all my when I got into all this theological knowledge and I was like I was feeling like I need to tell my dad where he needed to preach I don't think he was paying me no attention oh well let me allow me to teach an apologetics course but at one point I started be a real disgruntled church member and I was just like I feel like we need to be teaching I thought our C's probably doing something me I think Bob solace to me I don't know why it has to keep talking about people need jobs they need the gospel first before they need jobs and it was so crazy because but when I went through different things I wasn't looking for our seats rose iron man I was looking for the mothers in the church to pray for me oh you just wish that thing right there come on somebody and so I think sometimes we disconnect ourselves from something because we like what they don't have what this church is doing without realizing what is there and that sometimes like I said earlier what is missing God has placed you there strategically to add that as a supplement but that doesn't mean that everything has to change based on one element and I think that's so important that we know no because it's gonna be people in heaven that don't just that disagree with us doctrinally they're gonna be some people inhaled that agree with us doctrinally and you're preaching the church members that we don't like will be a heaven so do we really want to go to heaven because if we don't want to around church members on earth why do we want to spend eternity with a group of folks we don't like um you preachin I don't I don't know if I need to say anything after that so uh what would be your closing remarks I just say it I wouldn't say that matter that you have uh any projects you have coming up that you want to highlight I just I'm working on I'm working on a project I'm work aunt I don't know if I can see how much he's recognized we're project at you for and we're gonna do four project is the goal is to put you through you out of business because I don't get enough recognition for being a founder and co-host so um no I will say this I'm working on a stage play a musical that deals with the Sanitation strike sanitation workers strike that let some okay's death and so I am extremely excited I got some wonderful people who are partnering and more information will be coming out soon about that so um I mean fourth District just they you know we do a weekly well not weekly I try to do like a bimonthly show called I got something to say we're gonna have you on soon as hopefully we're next time you're in Atlanta and man let me say this thank you very much as much as I joke about you know June 3 and whatnot but thank you for what you do I think this is something that is quite pivotal and is necessary for not just the black jokes but for the church in general when people when I when I go speak and people are always asking me man what resource would you give me I give them books I give them people but I also tell them about Jew 3 and that's black white Latino Asian whoever because I think it's important that they they begin to kind of enter into this space to hear people of color talk about issues that are close to their heart and so if you don't ever hear a thank you or get an applause for what you're doing you're gonna get it from me and I greatly appreciate your heart and you posture in your position and what you're doing what you three is and what it's going to be for our society whenever it gets to the point where it can be like the next RZ I am is that what it's called or whatever yeah just just remember lovely people like me who helped you get to where you are that's all I'm saying yeah we had to use your celebrity they have proper thing I'm just saying just remember me remember me we use talking the real famous people just remember me remember I helped you and we're going back on Tony yes we are we don't do this thing Vince can I can also say how Ben's mom she was like the smartest dude in the world and I so we might we should even be on stage at this you asked me to come talk about black black people white bears religion Christianity and I had no idea who this dude Vince - Vince Ubuntu was dr. bun - uh you had this dude speak first and you were like I shall turn to speak and I was like what you did it so I love next time we speak my girl I got it I am ready I got like 30 books I'm ready now hey buddy get shaved up brother so anyway god bless what you're doing man I think it's amazing thank you that's encouraging how people get in contact with you on social media at me yeah are you still on social media right I am I'm trying to turn that into like a long a long term thing I think it's been good for my soul now I will promote stuff so like when this video is released I'll put it up on my Facebook page and I'll try to put it other places but I don't like interact with people anymore because it just takes too much time it takes too much mental energy from me and when I'm engaged it takes me to rabbit holes and you know that's 30 minutes 40 minutes wasted where I believe I still believe in authentic interaction with people if I really I'm gonna talk to you in real life I'm gonna hang what you gonna sit down and have a conversation and plus other things I don't think people need to know everything that I'm doing in my life but they don't need to know what I'm doing every second of it I wanted that check you brush yanti no it's not this that's not important that's just certain part of privacy and privacy that I think is important so so yeah I don't know if I'll ever get back to where I once was but I don't know how to engage in some way in the future I just don't know me and that's gonna be I'm up with job they engage with the UH black cult leaders that come on rg3 page Oh what do they come on what's up what's up no when we talk about like he were Israelites and they like come and troll I just I asked I read one coming I'm done I just don't like being in are they I can't do it they call you like a Negro European a Negro can they tell me I need to wake up yeah some joke is I was woke too long I had to get rest okay I'll take a nap all the time I was like y'all drugs so look I think I take mini naps like sleep is good for the body and it's okay these jokers be I call it a white supremacist I'm out you got to take one every now and then you got to take those white spermies this time around I mean this is the problem because if you chasing white supremacy all day long you become defined by that and I am NOT defined by my opposition I can't do it your people this is the problem when you saw when you're so obsessed with the opposition your whole life is evolved around that and you're talking about blackness you're talking about black identity or you're talking about equipping people are fighting for injustice is not really what you're doing is you're trying to build a platform arguing against the oppression right and you're never doing anything that brings any real substantive value to the community in which you think you're serving and there's such a problem it is such a problem thank you we could have had a whole conversation just about that cuz yeah cuz I I don't I don't spend a lot of time one of the things people asking me about like what do you think about people exiting evangelicalism I'm like I I don't care I care about it could be unapologetically equiping black people so we can progress and I don't have time to spend a lot of time on that because it doesn't all the time produce enough fruit in the key I'm trying to get other people's lane I won't take it away from other people's lane but my lane I know is to equip our people absolutely and I was gonna spend the bulk of my time doing that because thank you a lot of the people that that I ministered to don't even know what evangelicalism is all right so I'm gonna tell you and this had on last name I'm a line I'm encouraging this is another reason I'm encourage you for the work you do a June 3 project and when da Horton introduced me to you I was like thank you Jesus about when it Rob Bell write his book Loveland's whenever that was it was probably like 2013 maybe 2000 I don't know Forte's he wrote that book I remember evangelicalism going up and like they were like oh my gosh it was 18 blogs a day debating Rob bells Love Wins book people wrote you know Chan wrote erasing hammer and Kevin de young writing all this stuff and I remember sitting in my house in East Point Georgia spending a lot of time around black folk and I'm like at some point I realized I was like man this is like why do I care about what all these people think of Rob bails book I was like because every time I walk outside I'm having conversation with the kinetic science folks who are thinking that Jesus is a ripoff from Osiris I'm having a conversation with these Hebrew Israelites I'm having a conversation with the nation of gas on earth and I'm like nobody on these streets care about Rob bill so who's gonna start helping me to equip and debate these dudes and when I yo and so that's that was that was when I really started to change it maybe in 2012 cuz I remember there was a there was this moment in my life when I was like you know I I'm done I am so done with with even concerning myself with the arguments of white evangelicalism now did that mean I don't love them brothers I love them and if they invite me to come speak somewhere I'll speak there but I'm not gonna be overly concerned with the issues of people that I don't think exists in my air how can I say this without sounding like a separatist I that that we live in particular context and if all I'm doing is I'm concerned about Brazil for instance right now I live in America America has its own problems I can't be concerned with Brazil and Spain's issues with Catalonia and it's split as a government that's intersting I want to learn about that but guess what America has its own issues right and so it's the same thing white evangelicalism is a culture it's a context and as long as they're going to operate within the context and the structures that they do then god bless it you know whatever their issues over there obviously and if they want me to come and speak to those issues I'll do it but I'm not gonna be overly concerned about that and I thank God for Jude 3 project because when I found them when DEA was like you need to meet this sister I was like this is what I've been begging for all my life and I want to thank you the Lord has sent you he has put you he is a bless you for such a time as now to go forth and to be our Joshua into the Promised Land come on you don't you don't get to pick your calling a man like you don't get to decide the Lord does that a man Gideon didn't get the Gideon was chosen a man and then you are back to the hospital you came over here with that he would have backed out Lisa you've been called for this amen and that shows that you're ready for this calling because you don't want it you don't feel equipped but guess what it is in the power of the Spirit and if you trust in God you will take us to victory amen amen [Music] [Music] you [Music]

Channel: Jude 3 Project

Views: 19,179

Rating: 4.8396792 out of 5

Keywords: Sho Baraka, church, black church, woke, staywoke

Id: J541EF2BYsE

Length: 56min 6sec (3366 seconds)

Published: Mon Nov 13 2017